Guild Wars 2

Just give everyone a refund as you dont care about thiefs and want them made into support classes with low dps so just give everyone a refund so everyone can be a warrior as its the only class you seem to care about.

catnipkiller.5429:

Just give everyone a refund as you dont care about thiefs and want them made into support classes with low dps so just give everyone a refund so everyone can be a warrior as its the only class you seem to care about.

Obviously they do care about thieves since they are taking their time to balance them, at the risk of alienating other players.

SO when i make a thread about warriors needing a nerf and it gets deleated what then?

Depends whether its factual and constructive. Anet specifically requested our facts.

Columba.9730:

Many people are leaving WvWvW in disgust because of god mode thieves. One guy last night " I am not going to waste my time complaining, I will just go play something else…" He’s not alone. I’ve heard this many times in the last few weeks.

Highest dps, perma stealth due to culling and best mobility in ONE class? I’ve never seen a worse implementation of stealth in any game. I
While you are trying to fix culling in WvWvW, please lengthen stealth cool down times. You are losing customers. Many of us refuse to buy from your store to support such a poorly balanced system. Thank you.

Culling and rendering aside… WvWvW is inherently imbalanced… They’ve always been honest about WvWvW balance being an after thought.

You went into a deliberately imbalanced game mode and are upset about the imbalance, maybe try sPvP? If imbalanced combat isn’t your thing.

Alice.8694:

Columba.9730:

Many people are leaving WvWvW in disgust because of god mode thieves. One guy last night " I am not going to waste my time complaining, I will just go play something else…" He’s not alone. I’ve heard this many times in the last few weeks.

Highest dps, perma stealth due to culling and best mobility in ONE class? I’ve never seen a worse implementation of stealth in any game. I
While you are trying to fix culling in WvWvW, please lengthen stealth cool down times. You are losing customers. Many of us refuse to buy from your store to support such a poorly balanced system. Thank you.

Culling and rendering aside… WvWvW is inherently imbalanced… They’ve always been honest about WvWvW balance being an after thought.

You went into a deliberately imbalanced game mode and are upset about the imbalance, maybe try sPvP? If imbalanced combat isn’t your thing.

They requested my feedback. I never read that perma stealth was a WvWvW design feature. Where was that stated? The rest of the classes are balanced. Why should this single class be so far off?

Probably the thief is the most annoying and problematic in WvWvW.

Solo ganking is a difficult thing to pull off in this game (because you often get zerged etc). Thieves have by far the best ability to escape.
I think thieves and mesmers, because they mess with people due to head games are too classses that frustrate people alot.

IM not sure what to do about it though. Any meaningful nerf to a thieves manuervability without some other compensation would kill the class.

Columba.9730:

Alice.8694:

Columba.9730:

Many people are leaving WvWvW in disgust because of god mode thieves. One guy last night " I am not going to waste my time complaining, I will just go play something else…" He’s not alone. I’ve heard this many times in the last few weeks.

Highest dps, perma stealth due to culling and best mobility in ONE class? I’ve never seen a worse implementation of stealth in any game. I
While you are trying to fix culling in WvWvW, please lengthen stealth cool down times. You are losing customers. Many of us refuse to buy from your store to support such a poorly balanced system. Thank you.

Culling and rendering aside… WvWvW is inherently imbalanced… They’ve always been honest about WvWvW balance being an after thought.

You went into a deliberately imbalanced game mode and are upset about the imbalance, maybe try sPvP? If imbalanced combat isn’t your thing.

They requested my feedback. I never read that perma stealth was a WvWvW design feature. Where was that stated? The rest of the classes are balanced. Why should this single class be so far off?

You said “perma stealth due to culling”, but then say “I never read that perma stealth was a WvWvW design feature”. Pick one. “Perma stealth” can’t be a bug (culling) and a design feature at the same time.

I never understood people who say highest dps, best mobility, best survivability, best lover…Thieves can’t be all these things, all the time.

By the way, the rest of the classes aren’t 100% balanced, and anyone who says so is kidding themselves. If you notice, every major patch that comes out many classes get many small fixes (sometimes a larger one). This is the way balancing classes should be. Small fix, test it out, small fix test it out. If they were to nerf thieves into the ground (which many people in this thread would cheer for), all we would see the next day is “class x is OP, fix this now ANET or me and most of your players will quit the game” (probably from the exact same people).

You claimed that WvWvW isn’t supposed to be balanced and reject the need for any stealth adjustments. My point is that either culling needs to be fixed or stealth must be adjusted because stealth is not operating as intended due to the culling bug.

Columba.9730:

Alice.8694:

Columba.9730:

Many people are leaving WvWvW in disgust because of god mode thieves. One guy last night " I am not going to waste my time complaining, I will just go play something else…" He’s not alone. I’ve heard this many times in the last few weeks.

Highest dps, perma stealth due to culling and best mobility in ONE class? I’ve never seen a worse implementation of stealth in any game. I
While you are trying to fix culling in WvWvW, please lengthen stealth cool down times. You are losing customers. Many of us refuse to buy from your store to support such a poorly balanced system. Thank you.

Culling and rendering aside… WvWvW is inherently imbalanced… They’ve always been honest about WvWvW balance being an after thought.

You went into a deliberately imbalanced game mode and are upset about the imbalance, maybe try sPvP? If imbalanced combat isn’t your thing.

They requested my feedback. I never read that perma stealth was a WvWvW design feature. Where was that stated? The rest of the classes are balanced. Why should this single class be so far off?

There is nothing balanced about a haste/bolas/100b warrior with 110% crit damage, i’ve seen front line 100b warriors cut through entire flanks of the enemy. If you think the other other classes are somehow balanced in WvWvW except thief you are sadly mistaken.

My point was this… “No class is balanced around WvWvW”
WvWvW allows exceptionally high stats when compared to sPvP. If you want near balanced pvp, play structured pvp. (with zero culling problems i might add)

Secondly there is no such thing as perma stealth… A thief not rendered is target-able, Ctrl+T a thief when you see them, the cross-hair always appears even if the thief isn’t rendered yet. It’s not an ideal situation but you’re just gonna have to deal with it until they fix the culling problems.
A thief not rendered does not gain the healing and other bonuses from traits while stealth. Calling it perma-stealth is calling it something it is not.

Xae.7204:

Keitaro Dragonheart.9047:

This. 1,000 times this. The players crying out for nerfs are not interested in game balance. They’re only interested in winning without putting in any effort for it. And supposing the thief does get heavily crippled by the nerf bat, don’t think for a moment they’ll stop at the thief. Any of the other 7 classes will be on their hit lists. all it takes is a single defeat and “ERMAHGERD, OVURPOWERD, NURF!!!11!1one!1one!1!”

Fine, Lets just buff everyone to deal with Thieves!

Every Non thief Class will now do 10x more damage.
Every Non thief Class will now have 10x more HP.

No nerfs! So I must be interested in balance right?

The only thing “nerfs” do is separate people who can think logically and those who can not. Power is totally relative. A nerf to one class is a buff to every other. A Buff to one class is a nerf to every other.

The only “advantage” of Buffs only is to soothe the egos of bad players using overpowered classes as a crutch to overcome their own incompetence.

So we should nerf the thief class because one of them dared strike you? Yes of course, makes perfect sense! People don’t want to just nerf the thief now, they want to utterly destroy it. Every time someone gets beaten by a thief, or a warrior, or a mesmer, they come here crying and screaming for nerfs like ignorant little children. Have you been paying any attention to the thief forums? The nerfers have been attacking everything from death blossom, to stealth. They’re dead set on obliterating thief burst, taking away stealth, and generally ruining the thief entirely.

The thief class isn’t overpowered. Could it use some tweaks? Perhaps, but the same could be argued of other classes as well. However, beyond the culling issue, there are little to no issues at all. If you’re going to nerf thief burst, then burst for other classes should be nerfed as well. People so easily overlook all the threads from thief and non-thief players alike about how easy it is to kill thieves. Look through the forums and you’ll find that skilled players have no problems dealing with thieves. But because bad players get beaten by thieves, they MUST be overpowered! HURRAY FOR LOGIC!!1!one!!

By that logic, every class should get nerfed for having ever defeated someone.

Incompetence indeed.

Thobek.1730:

thieves burst damage is WAY TOO HIGH more than any other class in this game by a mile!

Really? Tell that to my thirty bullets I shoot at everything. Yeah thirty bullets. Can you imagine how long it would take to kill anything like that in real life? It’s like shooting pellets at everything. Engis have the same issue.

Anyway on topic:

I think Thief gameplay is a little slow, there are things that slow condition damage down greatly like bleeding and poison damage being nowhere near on par with burning. Even with the gear.

I think that the thief is missing many a trick and many a concept which made thieves a great class in any RPG setting. distractions, tricks, diversions, all are missing on this class. (when i say tricks i mean making my enemy attack something else or dodging and leaving behind a dummy etc. ) It’s like when this class was made someone left out the ninja and D&D fantasy examples entirely. Where’s my disguise for moving among enemies without being noticed? Or my distraction to make enemies turn around for a few seconds or my sap to daze my enemy before I steal something from him, or the slice to a major artery? The bleed stacking is almost non-existant for the type of fighters Thieves are.

Alice.8694:

Columba.9730:

Alice.8694:

Columba.9730:

Many people are leaving WvWvW in disgust because of god mode thieves. One guy last night " I am not going to waste my time complaining, I will just go play something else…" He’s not alone. I’ve heard this many times in the last few weeks.

Highest dps, perma stealth due to culling and best mobility in ONE class? I’ve never seen a worse implementation of stealth in any game. I
While you are trying to fix culling in WvWvW, please lengthen stealth cool down times. You are losing customers. Many of us refuse to buy from your store to support such a poorly balanced system. Thank you.

Culling and rendering aside… WvWvW is inherently imbalanced… They’ve always been honest about WvWvW balance being an after thought.

You went into a deliberately imbalanced game mode and are upset about the imbalance, maybe try sPvP? If imbalanced combat isn’t your thing.

They requested my feedback. I never read that perma stealth was a WvWvW design feature. Where was that stated? The rest of the classes are balanced. Why should this single class be so far off?

There is nothing balanced about a haste/bolas/100b warrior with 110% crit damage, i’ve seen front line 100b warriors cut through entire flanks of the enemy. If you think the other other classes are somehow balanced in WvWvW except thief you are sadly mistaken.

My point was this… “No class is balanced around WvWvW”
WvWvW allows exceptionally high stats when compared to sPvP. If you want near balanced pvp, play structured pvp. (with zero culling problems i might add)

Secondly there is no such thing as perma stealth… A thief not rendered is target-able, Ctrl+T a thief when you see them, the cross-hair always appears even if the thief isn’t rendered yet. It’s not an ideal situation but you’re just gonna have to deal with it until they fix the culling problems.
A thief not rendered does not gain the healing and other bonuses from traits while stealth. Calling it perma-stealth is calling it something it is not.

I don’t claim that they are perfectly balanced, but no other class is as far out of whack in WvWvW as is the thief class. Sorry, I can never tab target thieves when the culling bug is happening, so for all intents and purpose, they are perma stealthed. Call it culling if you like, but in reality it’s perma stealth.

Have to deal with it? Maybe. There are other games, and most of us dealing with the current thief god mode problems aren’t buying from the gem shop. At some point, anet will get the message.

In the above example with the 100b warrior. Most likely he would down his target in a couple seconds… Yeah that’s op but… Get immobilised and shot down by the various range before even getting a kill.

The thief dumps his damage, turns invisible, stomps his foe and ports away. Or dumps his damage, turns inv, ports to safety.

Maybe I am the only one who can see why the warrior one is not being raged about.

Columba.9730:

I don’t claim that they are perfectly balanced, but no other class is as far out of whack in WvWvW as is the thief class.

You specifically said:
“The rest of the classes are balanced. Why should this single class be so far off?”

I was addressing this… I never implied you claimed classes were perfectly balanced, perfect balance is impossible to achieve.

Sorry, I can never tab target thieves when the culling bug is happening, so for all intents and purpose, they are perma stealthed. Call it culling if you like, but in reality it’s perma stealth.

No, you preceive it as perma-stealth for whatever reason. The reality of the situation is that it is not stealth.

The features of stealth:

• Untargetable
• Invisible
• Shadow Arts Traits (healing, regen, condition removal)
• Different 1 skill (backstab, sneak attack, ect…)

The features of an un-rendered thief:

• Invisible
• Targetable
• No benefits from stealth traits.
• Normal unstealthed 1 skill.

Simply because you haven’t been able to do something, does not make it so… It certainly doesn’t make it reality, but that’s a philosophical argument for some other time.

Have to deal with it? Maybe. There are other games, and most of us dealing with the current thief god mode problems aren’t buying from the gem shop. At some point, anet will get the message.

I fully encourage you put your money where your mouth is. However you do not speak for anyone but yourself so please do not imply you do.

Arenanet are aware of the culling issues and have said on many occasions they have a team working hard to try and fix it.

Difference between 100b warrior and thief is that the 100b warrior is blowing significant cooldowns, is alot more vulnerable overall, and can be stopped. I can also save the person they are downing. There are also many classes I can actually survive this at level 10-20 with with good gameplay and and/or a single defensive skill.

Thieves can just roll the dice and retreat if it goes badly. They also are not near as limited on their burst and are to quickly try again if the initial burst missed. More often than not though the dice come up in their favor because they also get to choose their battles better than any other class.

Alice.8694:

Columba.9730:

I don’t claim that they are perfectly balanced, but no other class is as far out of whack in WvWvW as is the thief class.

You specifically said:
“The rest of the classes are balanced. Why should this single class be so far off?”

I was addressing this… I never implied you claimed classes were perfectly balanced, perfect balance is impossible to achieve.

Sorry, I can never tab target thieves when the culling bug is happening, so for all intents and purpose, they are perma stealthed. Call it culling if you like, but in reality it’s perma stealth.

No, you preceive it as perma-stealth for whatever reason. The reality of the situation is that it is not stealth.

The features of stealth:

• Untargetable
• Invisible
• Shadow Arts Traits (healing, regen, condition removal)
• Different 1 skill (backstab, sneak attack, ect…)

The features of an un-rendered thief:

• Invisible
• Targetable
• No benefits from stealth traits.
• Normal unstealthed 1 skill.

Simply because you haven’t been able to do something, does not make it so… It certainly doesn’t make it reality, but that’s a philosophical argument for some other time.

Have to deal with it? Maybe. There are other games, and most of us dealing with the current thief god mode problems aren’t buying from the gem shop. At some point, anet will get the message.

I fully encourage you put your money where your mouth is. However you do not speak for anyone but yourself so please do not imply you do.

Arenanet are aware of the culling issues and have said on many occasions they have a team working hard to try and fix it.

Balanced is a relative term, to me it means playable and reasonably fair. Thieves aren’t. Sorry but you are flat out wrong. Thieves aren’t targetable during their permastealth periods. Tab targeting just doesn’t work. I will speak for whomever I please. I am actively soliciting like minded views and encouraging others who are sick of perma stealth thieves to complain and boycott the gem store. Enough complaints and boycotts will change their attitude.

They may be working on it, but there’s zero progress. So I strongly recommend that they increase stealth cool downs to compensate until its fixed. Thieves get way too much of a benefit by being able to exploit this bug.

proposal for a-net:
after stealth ends, automatically thief receives 5 seconds of “revealed”, it does not matter if they attack or not. or make it 6. this should make the mob shut up.
(this will not affect the average dungeon player, but the wvw player)
p.s. with all the nerfes thief received, i did stopped playing the pvp and wvw, if you kill dungeon pve, then good luck…

DanH.5879:

proposal for a-net:
after stealth ends, automatically thief receives 5 seconds of “revealed”, it does not matter if they attack or not. or make it 6. this should make the mob shut up.
(this will not affect the average dungeon player, but the wvw player)
p.s. with all the nerfes thief received, i did stopped playing the pvp and wvw, if you kill dungeon pve, then good luck…

There have been times where I have used multiple instances of stealth to remove conditions, so it would affect PvE.

Hit for 9968 damage in under a second in the opening attack.
5217 from steal alone.
Full exotic toughness armor and weapons engineer. Full exotic vitality jewelry.

Health pool is 21382 so almost half my health dropped in the opening attack. And no..no elixir U used =).

So basically I started the fight with half my health gone. So much for toughness/vitality countering the thief’s ‘nerfed’ DPS.

Pic attached.

If balance in WvW is irreverent then they should disable stealth in it.

They have had no problem disabling other skills when they didn’t work right. Even class mechanic skills.

Keitaro Dragonheart.9047:

Xae.7204:

Keitaro Dragonheart.9047:

This. 1,000 times this. The players crying out for nerfs are not interested in game balance. They’re only interested in winning without putting in any effort for it. And supposing the thief does get heavily crippled by the nerf bat, don’t think for a moment they’ll stop at the thief. Any of the other 7 classes will be on their hit lists. all it takes is a single defeat and “ERMAHGERD, OVURPOWERD, NURF!!!11!1one!1one!1!”

Fine, Lets just buff everyone to deal with Thieves!

Every Non thief Class will now do 10x more damage.
Every Non thief Class will now have 10x more HP.

No nerfs! So I must be interested in balance right?

The only thing “nerfs” do is separate people who can think logically and those who can not. Power is totally relative. A nerf to one class is a buff to every other. A Buff to one class is a nerf to every other.

The only “advantage” of Buffs only is to soothe the egos of bad players using overpowered classes as a crutch to overcome their own incompetence.

So we should nerf the thief class because one of them dared strike you? Yes of course, makes perfect sense! People don’t want to just nerf the thief now, they want to utterly destroy it. Every time someone gets beaten by a thief, or a warrior, or a mesmer, they come here crying and screaming for nerfs like ignorant little children. Have you been paying any attention to the thief forums? The nerfers have been attacking everything from death blossom, to stealth. They’re dead set on obliterating thief burst, taking away stealth, and generally ruining the thief entirely.

The thief class isn’t overpowered. Could it use some tweaks? Perhaps, but the same could be argued of other classes as well. However, beyond the culling issue, there are little to no issues at all. If you’re going to nerf thief burst, then burst for other classes should be nerfed as well. People so easily overlook all the threads from thief and non-thief players alike about how easy it is to kill thieves. Look through the forums and you’ll find that skilled players have no problems dealing with thieves. But because bad players get beaten by thieves, they MUST be overpowered! HURRAY FOR LOGIC!!1!one!!

By that logic, every class should get nerfed for having ever defeated someone.

Incompetence indeed.

Wooshh. Right over your head.

XII.9401:

Hit for 9968 damage in under a second in the opening attack.
5217 from steal alone.
Full exotic toughness armor and weapons engineer. Full exotic vitality jewelry.

Health pool is 21382 so almost half my health dropped in the opening attack. And no..no elixir U used =).

So basically I started the fight with half my health gone. So much for toughness/vitality countering the thief’s ‘nerfed’ DPS.

Pic attached.

the apologists consider this balanced, based on ANET’s description for thieves.

“If you’re going to nerf thief burst, then burst for other classes should be nerfed as well.”

Necro doesn’t have (decent) burst… lol… best of luck with that.

XII.9401:

Hit for 9968 damage in under a second in the opening attack.
5217 from steal alone.
Full exotic toughness armor and weapons engineer. Full exotic vitality jewelry.

Health pool is 21382 so almost half my health dropped in the opening attack. And no..no elixir U used =).

So basically I started the fight with half my health gone. So much for toughness/vitality countering the thief’s ‘nerfed’ DPS.

Pic attached.

So you started the fight with right around the thief’s healthpool? Sounds like he started the fight off by evening the odds.

Xae.7204:

If balance in WvW is irreverent then they should disable stealth in it.

They have had no problem disabling other skills when they didn’t work right. Even class mechanic skills.

Keitaro Dragonheart.9047:

Xae.7204:

Keitaro Dragonheart.9047:

This. 1,000 times this. The players crying out for nerfs are not interested in game balance. They’re only interested in winning without putting in any effort for it. And supposing the thief does get heavily crippled by the nerf bat, don’t think for a moment they’ll stop at the thief. Any of the other 7 classes will be on their hit lists. all it takes is a single defeat and “ERMAHGERD, OVURPOWERD, NURF!!!11!1one!1one!1!”

Fine, Lets just buff everyone to deal with Thieves!

Every Non thief Class will now do 10x more damage.
Every Non thief Class will now have 10x more HP.

No nerfs! So I must be interested in balance right?

The only thing “nerfs” do is separate people who can think logically and those who can not. Power is totally relative. A nerf to one class is a buff to every other. A Buff to one class is a nerf to every other.

The only “advantage” of Buffs only is to soothe the egos of bad players using overpowered classes as a crutch to overcome their own incompetence.

So we should nerf the thief class because one of them dared strike you? Yes of course, makes perfect sense! People don’t want to just nerf the thief now, they want to utterly destroy it. Every time someone gets beaten by a thief, or a warrior, or a mesmer, they come here crying and screaming for nerfs like ignorant little children. Have you been paying any attention to the thief forums? The nerfers have been attacking everything from death blossom, to stealth. They’re dead set on obliterating thief burst, taking away stealth, and generally ruining the thief entirely.

The thief class isn’t overpowered. Could it use some tweaks? Perhaps, but the same could be argued of other classes as well. However, beyond the culling issue, there are little to no issues at all. If you’re going to nerf thief burst, then burst for other classes should be nerfed as well. People so easily overlook all the threads from thief and non-thief players alike about how easy it is to kill thieves. Look through the forums and you’ll find that skilled players have no problems dealing with thieves. But because bad players get beaten by thieves, they MUST be overpowered! HURRAY FOR LOGIC!!1!one!!

By that logic, every class should get nerfed for having ever defeated someone.

Incompetence indeed.

Wooshh. Right over your head.

Thats hilarious. Welcome to the forums lol.

My highest level thief is level 3, and I do not think thief damage is OP (Gasp). I think that their damage/health ratio is pretty solid and in-line with the top five classes (Ele, Mes, Thief, Guard, War) in WvW. I have been interviewing thieves in WvW at random. I ask how much health they have, how they like thief, and then if they have ever been 1 shot by a warrior. Most of them say yes. I like that their resource is called “Initiative” because that is what the thief is about. If the thief catches you, then your odds reduce greatly to make it out alive. If you catch THEM, then you can pretty consistently down them from 1,500 range in one hit.

I think the only thing that needs to be looked into is their mobility. I am still deciding between a thief or a warrior. How are thieves in PvE?

Welswift.9813:

Xae.7204:

If balance in WvW is irreverent then they should disable stealth in it.

They have had no problem disabling other skills when they didn’t work right. Even class mechanic skills.

Keitaro Dragonheart.9047:

Xae.7204:

Keitaro Dragonheart.9047:

This. 1,000 times this. The players crying out for nerfs are not interested in game balance. They’re only interested in winning without putting in any effort for it. And supposing the thief does get heavily crippled by the nerf bat, don’t think for a moment they’ll stop at the thief. Any of the other 7 classes will be on their hit lists. all it takes is a single defeat and “ERMAHGERD, OVURPOWERD, NURF!!!11!1one!1one!1!”

Fine, Lets just buff everyone to deal with Thieves!

Every Non thief Class will now do 10x more damage.
Every Non thief Class will now have 10x more HP.

No nerfs! So I must be interested in balance right?

The only thing “nerfs” do is separate people who can think logically and those who can not. Power is totally relative. A nerf to one class is a buff to every other. A Buff to one class is a nerf to every other.

The only “advantage” of Buffs only is to soothe the egos of bad players using overpowered classes as a crutch to overcome their own incompetence.

So we should nerf the thief class because one of them dared strike you? Yes of course, makes perfect sense! People don’t want to just nerf the thief now, they want to utterly destroy it. Every time someone gets beaten by a thief, or a warrior, or a mesmer, they come here crying and screaming for nerfs like ignorant little children. Have you been paying any attention to the thief forums? The nerfers have been attacking everything from death blossom, to stealth. They’re dead set on obliterating thief burst, taking away stealth, and generally ruining the thief entirely.

The thief class isn’t overpowered. Could it use some tweaks? Perhaps, but the same could be argued of other classes as well. However, beyond the culling issue, there are little to no issues at all. If you’re going to nerf thief burst, then burst for other classes should be nerfed as well. People so easily overlook all the threads from thief and non-thief players alike about how easy it is to kill thieves. Look through the forums and you’ll find that skilled players have no problems dealing with thieves. But because bad players get beaten by thieves, they MUST be overpowered! HURRAY FOR LOGIC!!1!one!!

By that logic, every class should get nerfed for having ever defeated someone.

Incompetence indeed.

Wooshh. Right over your head.

Thats hilarious. Welcome to the forums lol.

My highest level thief is level 3, and I do not think thief damage is OP (Gasp). I think that their damage/health ratio is pretty solid and in-line with the top five classes (Ele, Mes, Thief, Guard, War) in WvW. I have been interviewing thieves in WvW at random. I ask how much health they have, how they like thief, and then if they have ever been 1 shot by a warrior. Most of them say yes. I like that their resource is called “Initiative” because that is what the thief is about. If the thief catches you, then your odds reduce greatly to make it out alive. If you catch THEM, then you can pretty consistently down them from 1,500 range in one hit.

I think the only thing that needs to be looked into is their mobility. I am still deciding between a thief or a warrior. How are thieves in PvE?

Problem being it is hard to catch a class with stealth.

In general I’m not a fan of stealth mechanics in MMOs. It trashes balance by giving one class an out.

Eve handled Stealth correctly, once someone has targeted you you can’t restealth. You have two options: Fight or Flight.

The ability to engage at will with stealth is a huge advantage. Coupling it with the ability to disengage at will is usually overpowering.

Combining Engage/Disengage at will with best in game mobility and burst coupled with culling bug? Game breaking.

Welswift.9813:

Xae.7204:

If balance in WvW is irreverent then they should disable stealth in it.

They have had no problem disabling other skills when they didn’t work right. Even class mechanic skills.

Keitaro Dragonheart.9047:

Xae.7204:

Keitaro Dragonheart.9047:

This. 1,000 times this. The players crying out for nerfs are not interested in game balance. They’re only interested in winning without putting in any effort for it. And supposing the thief does get heavily crippled by the nerf bat, don’t think for a moment they’ll stop at the thief. Any of the other 7 classes will be on their hit lists. all it takes is a single defeat and “ERMAHGERD, OVURPOWERD, NURF!!!11!1one!1one!1!”

Fine, Lets just buff everyone to deal with Thieves!

Every Non thief Class will now do 10x more damage.
Every Non thief Class will now have 10x more HP.

No nerfs! So I must be interested in balance right?

The only thing “nerfs” do is separate people who can think logically and those who can not. Power is totally relative. A nerf to one class is a buff to every other. A Buff to one class is a nerf to every other.

The only “advantage” of Buffs only is to soothe the egos of bad players using overpowered classes as a crutch to overcome their own incompetence.

So we should nerf the thief class because one of them dared strike you? Yes of course, makes perfect sense! People don’t want to just nerf the thief now, they want to utterly destroy it. Every time someone gets beaten by a thief, or a warrior, or a mesmer, they come here crying and screaming for nerfs like ignorant little children. Have you been paying any attention to the thief forums? The nerfers have been attacking everything from death blossom, to stealth. They’re dead set on obliterating thief burst, taking away stealth, and generally ruining the thief entirely.

The thief class isn’t overpowered. Could it use some tweaks? Perhaps, but the same could be argued of other classes as well. However, beyond the culling issue, there are little to no issues at all. If you’re going to nerf thief burst, then burst for other classes should be nerfed as well. People so easily overlook all the threads from thief and non-thief players alike about how easy it is to kill thieves. Look through the forums and you’ll find that skilled players have no problems dealing with thieves. But because bad players get beaten by thieves, they MUST be overpowered! HURRAY FOR LOGIC!!1!one!!

By that logic, every class should get nerfed for having ever defeated someone.

Incompetence indeed.

Wooshh. Right over your head.

Thats hilarious. Welcome to the forums lol.

My highest level thief is level 3, and I do not think thief damage is OP (Gasp). I think that their damage/health ratio is pretty solid and in-line with the top five classes (Ele, Mes, Thief, Guard, War) in WvW. I have been interviewing thieves in WvW at random. I ask how much health they have, how they like thief, and then if they have ever been 1 shot by a warrior. Most of them say yes. I like that their resource is called “Initiative” because that is what the thief is about. If the thief catches you, then your odds reduce greatly to make it out alive. If you catch THEM, then you can pretty consistently down them from 1,500 range in one hit.

I think the only thing that needs to be looked into is their mobility. I am still deciding between a thief or a warrior. How are thieves in PvE?

Your highest level of a thief is level 3? I am sorry but you aren’t high enough to weigh in on wvwvw. spvp perhaps.

Welswift.9813:

Xae.7204:

If balance in WvW is irreverent then they should disable stealth in it.

They have had no problem disabling other skills when they didn’t work right. Even class mechanic skills.

Keitaro Dragonheart.9047:

Xae.7204:

Keitaro Dragonheart.9047:

This. 1,000 times this. The players crying out for nerfs are not interested in game balance. They’re only interested in winning without putting in any effort for it. And supposing the thief does get heavily crippled by the nerf bat, don’t think for a moment they’ll stop at the thief. Any of the other 7 classes will be on their hit lists. all it takes is a single defeat and “ERMAHGERD, OVURPOWERD, NURF!!!11!1one!1one!1!”

Fine, Lets just buff everyone to deal with Thieves!

Every Non thief Class will now do 10x more damage.
Every Non thief Class will now have 10x more HP.

No nerfs! So I must be interested in balance right?

The only thing “nerfs” do is separate people who can think logically and those who can not. Power is totally relative. A nerf to one class is a buff to every other. A Buff to one class is a nerf to every other.

The only “advantage” of Buffs only is to soothe the egos of bad players using overpowered classes as a crutch to overcome their own incompetence.

So we should nerf the thief class because one of them dared strike you? Yes of course, makes perfect sense! People don’t want to just nerf the thief now, they want to utterly destroy it. Every time someone gets beaten by a thief, or a warrior, or a mesmer, they come here crying and screaming for nerfs like ignorant little children. Have you been paying any attention to the thief forums? The nerfers have been attacking everything from death blossom, to stealth. They’re dead set on obliterating thief burst, taking away stealth, and generally ruining the thief entirely.

The thief class isn’t overpowered. Could it use some tweaks? Perhaps, but the same could be argued of other classes as well. However, beyond the culling issue, there are little to no issues at all. If you’re going to nerf thief burst, then burst for other classes should be nerfed as well. People so easily overlook all the threads from thief and non-thief players alike about how easy it is to kill thieves. Look through the forums and you’ll find that skilled players have no problems dealing with thieves. But because bad players get beaten by thieves, they MUST be overpowered! HURRAY FOR LOGIC!!1!one!!

By that logic, every class should get nerfed for having ever defeated someone.

Incompetence indeed.

Wooshh. Right over your head.

Thats hilarious. Welcome to the forums lol.

My highest level thief is level 3, and I do not think thief damage is OP (Gasp). I think that their damage/health ratio is pretty solid and in-line with the top five classes (Ele, Mes, Thief, Guard, War) in WvW. I have been interviewing thieves in WvW at random. I ask how much health they have, how they like thief, and then if they have ever been 1 shot by a warrior. Most of them say yes. I like that their resource is called “Initiative” because that is what the thief is about. If the thief catches you, then your odds reduce greatly to make it out alive. If you catch THEM, then you can pretty consistently down them from 1,500 range in one hit.

I think the only thing that needs to be looked into is their mobility. I am still deciding between a thief or a warrior. How are thieves in PvE?

What if someone can’t 1HKO the thief like the warriors, how do they deal with them?
They don’t and the thief runs off.

Xae.7204:

If balance in WvW is irreverent then they should disable stealth in it.

They have had no problem disabling other skills when they didn’t work right. Even class mechanic skills.

Keitaro Dragonheart.9047:

Xae.7204:

Keitaro Dragonheart.9047:

This. 1,000 times this. The players crying out for nerfs are not interested in game balance. They’re only interested in winning without putting in any effort for it. And supposing the thief does get heavily crippled by the nerf bat, don’t think for a moment they’ll stop at the thief. Any of the other 7 classes will be on their hit lists. all it takes is a single defeat and “ERMAHGERD, OVURPOWERD, NURF!!!11!1one!1one!1!”

Fine, Lets just buff everyone to deal with Thieves!

Every Non thief Class will now do 10x more damage.
Every Non thief Class will now have 10x more HP.

No nerfs! So I must be interested in balance right?

The only thing “nerfs” do is separate people who can think logically and those who can not. Power is totally relative. A nerf to one class is a buff to every other. A Buff to one class is a nerf to every other.

The only “advantage” of Buffs only is to soothe the egos of bad players using overpowered classes as a crutch to overcome their own incompetence.

So we should nerf the thief class because one of them dared strike you? Yes of course, makes perfect sense! People don’t want to just nerf the thief now, they want to utterly destroy it. Every time someone gets beaten by a thief, or a warrior, or a mesmer, they come here crying and screaming for nerfs like ignorant little children. Have you been paying any attention to the thief forums? The nerfers have been attacking everything from death blossom, to stealth. They’re dead set on obliterating thief burst, taking away stealth, and generally ruining the thief entirely.

The thief class isn’t overpowered. Could it use some tweaks? Perhaps, but the same could be argued of other classes as well. However, beyond the culling issue, there are little to no issues at all. If you’re going to nerf thief burst, then burst for other classes should be nerfed as well. People so easily overlook all the threads from thief and non-thief players alike about how easy it is to kill thieves. Look through the forums and you’ll find that skilled players have no problems dealing with thieves. But because bad players get beaten by thieves, they MUST be overpowered! HURRAY FOR LOGIC!!1!one!!

By that logic, every class should get nerfed for having ever defeated someone.

Incompetence indeed.

Wooshh. Right over your head.

No, i knew exactly what you were saying. But because i don’t agree with you, I’m stupid and didn’t get it, but whatever helps you sleep at night buddy. If it makes you feel better to think you won an internet argument, then by all means. Either way, I think I’m done here. Have a nice day.

Xae.7204:

Keitaro Dragonheart.9047:

This. 1,000 times this. The players crying out for nerfs are not interested in game balance. They’re only interested in winning without putting in any effort for it. And supposing the thief does get heavily crippled by the nerf bat, don’t think for a moment they’ll stop at the thief. Any of the other 7 classes will be on their hit lists. all it takes is a single defeat and “ERMAHGERD, OVURPOWERD, NURF!!!11!1one!1one!1!”

Fine, Lets just buff everyone to deal with Thieves!

Every Non thief Class will now do 10x more damage.
Every Non thief Class will now have 10x more HP.

No nerfs! So I must be interested in balance right?

The only thing “nerfs” do is separate people who can think logically and those who can not. Power is totally relative. A nerf to one class is a buff to every other. A Buff to one class is a nerf to every other.

The only “advantage” of Buffs only is to soothe the egos of bad players using overpowered classes as a crutch to overcome their own incompetence.

I never said anything about buffing everyone to deal with thieves. You need to learn how to counter them with your own skills at hand. It isn’t hard. You should actually read what I said.

I stated that bunker aspects should be buffed. I agree that a bunker should be hard to kill. I also stated that to get that kind of toughness, classes should invest in defensive capabilities and the buff should not apply to any that are built as glass.

You people crying for nerfs still don’t get it. You take away our damage, you kill the profession. Even with mobility, we won’t be able to stand up to a bunker unless we invest heavily into more mobility. You will force us to use certain traits. Right now, we have a few options but once you people gut the class, they will have to build a certain way because they won’t have any kind of damage ability at all nor will we be able to go toe to toe without always investing in certain traits and only using certain skills.

Hell’s bells, we won’t even be able to stand up to a glass warrior or a glass guardian. What is my damage going to do then? Nothing because you people cried so much that the class was neutered and can only tickle.

Take away stealth and we are just a light fighter that will be good for nothing.

You will render the class as crap.

The only “advantage” of nerfs only is to soothe the egos of bad players and is a crutch to overcome their own incompetence.

With all the talk about how the thief can get away if things go awry for them, I would like to know when retreat became a form of victory in people’s minds. So you didn’t get the 10 points in PvP or the chance for badge drops in WvW, but if you force a thief to retreat, you have won.

Bastionhawk.7120:

This is the situation. I’ve agreed with the notion that there are things within this particular class that need to be looked at. I personally do not want to see this class get a big nerf.

Now whatever it is you are overcompensating for you can just stop. I can tell you that your comments above are why most people are going to write you off. You can’t just insult a group of people (or just one person) and expect them to actually listen to you. I think you are wrong in your opinion and you think I am wrong in mine however you’ll never have a productive conversation if all you do is belittle people to …make yourself look better (i guess that is why you do it). Next time you think you have something great to say you should stop and think before you post. Also, make sure your comments are pointed at the right person – I don’t think this post was meant for me in all actuality.

By the way – with all the hatefulness you are expressing I just wanted to point out to you that this is a video game forum. Please consider getting a little perspective on life before angling negativity to other people.

Taking yourself a little too seriously there bub? Can’t hack some smack talk? Oh well, I guess we should nerf writing styles too, that’s a good idea. Can you put out a style guide? Can you also help clean up government decorum and professional sports teams as well? They have filthy mouths with all those verbal exchanges.

Ever hear the term “give an inch, and they take a mile”? A few tweaks here and there is a slippery slope, but I’m sure you do not care at all, as long as your concerns are dealt with. But what about people that don’t like the bouncing arrow? or the initiative system? the skill trees? the venoms? the caltrops? If everyone’s concerns are just as valid as yours there will be no class left to play. Do you even understand that? I say learn to play because that is what a game is about. You seem to think I am hateful here when I am just enjoying myself and the challenges the game presents. Who knew that all I had to do when I encounter a tough mesmer is complain on the forums to let me win. The fact that you are unwilling to rise to the challenge makes me wonder why you play these types of games at all. Single player games are designed to have you win them but I suspect you need the ego rub more that the gameplay.

Yes I am protectionist, but after seeing what happens to games when this sort of discussion gets taken too seriously and ruins the entertainment value, I have good reason to suspect your fairy-dusted words of “fairness”.

Not sure if its been mentioned,
But Stealth finishing also has to be done away with.
Shouldnt even try and revive someone downed by a thief because the thief will finish him before you can even bring him up.
So please look into this, it is quite tedious.

Causic.3798:

Not sure if its been mentioned,
But Stealth finishing also has to be done away with.
Shouldnt even try and revive someone downed by a thief because the thief will finish him before you can even bring him up.
So please look into this, it is quite tedious.

Stealth finishing is the weakest of the “special” finishers and easiest to counter. Just kill/interrupt the thief, both of those options aren’t even available with most special finishing moves.

Keitaro Dragonheart.9047:

Xae.7204:

If balance in WvW is irreverent then they should disable stealth in it.

They have had no problem disabling other skills when they didn’t work right. Even class mechanic skills.

Keitaro Dragonheart.9047:

Xae.7204:

Keitaro Dragonheart.9047:

This. 1,000 times this. The players crying out for nerfs are not interested in game balance. They’re only interested in winning without putting in any effort for it. And supposing the thief does get heavily crippled by the nerf bat, don’t think for a moment they’ll stop at the thief. Any of the other 7 classes will be on their hit lists. all it takes is a single defeat and “ERMAHGERD, OVURPOWERD, NURF!!!11!1one!1one!1!”

Fine, Lets just buff everyone to deal with Thieves!

Every Non thief Class will now do 10x more damage.
Every Non thief Class will now have 10x more HP.

No nerfs! So I must be interested in balance right?

The only thing “nerfs” do is separate people who can think logically and those who can not. Power is totally relative. A nerf to one class is a buff to every other. A Buff to one class is a nerf to every other.

The only “advantage” of Buffs only is to soothe the egos of bad players using overpowered classes as a crutch to overcome their own incompetence.

So we should nerf the thief class because one of them dared strike you? Yes of course, makes perfect sense! People don’t want to just nerf the thief now, they want to utterly destroy it. Every time someone gets beaten by a thief, or a warrior, or a mesmer, they come here crying and screaming for nerfs like ignorant little children. Have you been paying any attention to the thief forums? The nerfers have been attacking everything from death blossom, to stealth. They’re dead set on obliterating thief burst, taking away stealth, and generally ruining the thief entirely.

The thief class isn’t overpowered. Could it use some tweaks? Perhaps, but the same could be argued of other classes as well. However, beyond the culling issue, there are little to no issues at all. If you’re going to nerf thief burst, then burst for other classes should be nerfed as well. People so easily overlook all the threads from thief and non-thief players alike about how easy it is to kill thieves. Look through the forums and you’ll find that skilled players have no problems dealing with thieves. But because bad players get beaten by thieves, they MUST be overpowered! HURRAY FOR LOGIC!!1!one!!

By that logic, every class should get nerfed for having ever defeated someone.

Incompetence indeed.

Wooshh. Right over your head.

No, i knew exactly what you were saying. But because i don’t agree with you, I’m stupid and didn’t get it, but whatever helps you sleep at night buddy. If it makes you feel better to think you won an internet argument, then by all means. Either way, I think I’m done here. Have a nice day.

No, you didn’t get what I was saying, and you still don’t get it.

Let me spell it out for you: Nerfing or Buffing makes no difference to balance. You can either nerf one or two over powered things in a week or buff hundreds of things to compensate on a few years.

The only purpose of “buffing” instead of “nerfing” is that it protects fragile egos.

You are so defensive it is like you are trying to prove the “fragile ego” part right.

Korrtz.3510:

Bastionhawk.7120:

This is the situation. I’ve agreed with the notion that there are things within this particular class that need to be looked at. I personally do not want to see this class get a big nerf.

Now whatever it is you are overcompensating for you can just stop. I can tell you that your comments above are why most people are going to write you off. You can’t just insult a group of people (or just one person) and expect them to actually listen to you. I think you are wrong in your opinion and you think I am wrong in mine however you’ll never have a productive conversation if all you do is belittle people to …make yourself look better (i guess that is why you do it). Next time you think you have something great to say you should stop and think before you post. Also, make sure your comments are pointed at the right person – I don’t think this post was meant for me in all actuality.

By the way – with all the hatefulness you are expressing I just wanted to point out to you that this is a video game forum. Please consider getting a little perspective on life before angling negativity to other people.

Taking yourself a little too seriously there bub? Can’t hack some smack talk? Oh well, I guess we should nerf writing styles too, that’s a good idea. Can you put out a style guide? Can you also help clean up government decorum and professional sports teams as well? They have filthy mouths with all those verbal exchanges.

Ever hear the term “give an inch, and they take a mile”? A few tweaks here and there is a slippery slope, but I’m sure you do not care at all, as long as your concerns are dealt with. But what about people that don’t like the bouncing arrow? or the initiative system? the skill trees? the venoms? the caltrops? If everyone’s concerns are just as valid as yours there will be no class left to play. Do you even understand that? I say learn to play because that is what a game is about. You seem to think I am hateful here when I am just enjoying myself and the challenges the game presents. Who knew that all I had to do when I encounter a tough mesmer is complain on the forums to let me win. The fact that you are unwilling to rise to the challenge makes me wonder why you play these types of games at all. Single player games are designed to have you win them but I suspect you need the ego rub more that the gameplay.

Yes I am protectionist, but after seeing what happens to games when this sort of discussion gets taken too seriously and ruins the entertainment value, I have good reason to suspect your fairy-dusted words of “fairness”.

There is a difference between being firm and being ugly. You’d do well to remember that distinction.

I play this game for fun because it is just that, a game. If you want to equivocate real life situations to the balance of virtual fighting of zeros and ones then I can’t relate with your frame of mind.

Again. You are making generalizations about me and my overall character based on the fact that I think there needs to be some work done. You are overcompensating. I’m done responding to you. This back and forth is in no way productive.

I’ve been playing recently as a venom/might sharing thief with lifesteal for venom hits and might from dodging, and I’ve been having a blast. The only thing I really miss is a little bit more range for the sharing.
The range currently isn’t very wide, and you can only effectively spread it to 1 person, 2 if there happen to be 2 players close together, which usually doesn’t happen in dungeons/fractals/whatever, especially not during fights, because 1) it’s generally dangerous (aoe effects), and 2) it’s not something people generally just want to do, even though they’re missing out on area buffs.

Also it’d be nice if a small indicator could be added that venoms have been shared to that person, something popping over their head or something, just to give it more of a visual effect, in any case, that’s something I’d appreciate.

I’m curious if there is Anet employee that can give us a heads up on results from this thread. 25 pages and not much return from them. Curious minds want to know. Thanks.

Thief gameplay review from a player who mains a thief and also plays a necro and an elementalist in PvP.

1. Shadow Assault, the underwater #5 skill with spear, is unbelievably overpowered. Prior to the Capricorn shark nerf I was able to capture the Ruins while fighting 3 sharks just by spamming 5 and never getting hit once. Using your underwater utilities for initiative regeneration allows for almost unlimited use of this spell, which does moderate damage while providing 100% evasion uptime. Not only is this boring to use, it’s boring to fight against. No one wants to die while their opponent presses 1 button and remains at full health, and no one SHOULD want to win by pressing 1 button and staying at full health. It’s just a stupid idea.

2. Heartseeker is still absurd. As a thief it’s LOL when other thieves spam HS but on other classes it become ridiculous when the thief decides he’s done pretending he has a rotation and just pops assassin’s signet and spams up to 5 HS in a row critting for over 5k each when your health is low. Why do we need a spammable, leap finisher, gap closing, high damage attack on a class that already has more gap closing and high damage options than any class in the game? Necro has #3 scepter, Unholy Feast, as a “finisher”; it requires the necro to stack conditions and does more damage depending on the amount of conditions. At 25 stacks of bleed plus Signet of Spite and boon conversion to conditions from wells, my long cooldown “finisher” crits for maybe 50% of one heartseeker, on a good day, with NO gap closer, on the least mobile class in the game. You guys need to be looking at this stuff.

3. Haste needs to be removed from the game ENTIRELY. It makes 100b and Pistol Whip go from mediocre attacks to insanely high damage burst paired with stun/knockdown. Have you ever seen a warrior in sPvP playing anything BUT 100b/whirlwind GS + M/S build? There’s a reason for that. Get rid of haste and normalize the damage for both. As it stands pistol whip is still not even close to as strong as 100b.

4. Pistol/Dagger bleed builds are the most boring thing I’ve ever seen. 0/0/30/20/20, constant stealths and healing/condition removal while stealthed, our survivability is insane which is good but it’s so ungodly boring to play. 111115111115111115. That’s literally ALL THE ROTATION IS. You auto attack until you can cloak and dagger, then you use sneak attack, then you repeat. Heal as necessary. It’s boring to play and it’s boring to fight against. Our only defensive class option shouldn’t be so mundane.

3. Sword/Dagger #3 needs to be totally reworked. The damage blows, it misses constantly and the initiative cost is too high.

4. Venoms need to be looked at. Being a staple of the thief/rogue/assassin class historically, they seem out of touch with this game, just thrown in because you feel like it was supposed to be. A couple hits of a debuff on a 45 second cooldown? I understand this is totally different from WoW, but choosing your poisons based on situation and having them on your weapons for an hour and always working was an awesome game mechanic. I feel like the only reason people take venoms in this game is for tPvP venom share builds or exploiting immobility for cnd > steal > bs.

Thank you for being an honest thief!

Absurd class.

i just ate an 8k steal and an 8k cnd.

What utter nonsense.

Good post Hanzo ~

This is the thief nerf vs anti-nerf argument in a nutshell.

For Nerfs:
1) Stealth + graphic rendering bug = stealth nearly 24/7. Even 4 guys have hard time killing 1 thief. (observed by many many witnesses)
2) High damage. 4-8k a hit.
3) High mobility. Thief wins he kills you. Thief loses he escapes successfully.

Anti-nerf:
1) LOL L2P! I am thief and I die all the time 1v1 against noob players. (self proclaimed without prove). I don’t see any graphic rendering bug I can see myself just fine!
2) No we never hit for 4-8k a hit! And warrior & guardian can tank them anyways. Forget all other 6 classes they are all glass cannons!
3) Why are you trying to kill a thief anyways? You should feel accomplished just escaping alive or forcing a thief to retreat.

BabelFikitten234:

To me the thief profession has the most potential but because of underwhelming utilities such as traps and venoms, traits which trigger internal cooldowns or support the underwhelming utility skills and the unsynergistic weapon sets (P/P is the perfect example of this) it’s the profession which has to rely mostly on gimmicks which in response gets Anet to nerf the Thief over and over.

The problem with constantly nerfing the thief is 1) the nerfs totally miss the point or 2) they take away the only viable options for the thief to remain viable.

What I think needs to happen in order to fix these issues is a redesign of most thief traits, especially the ones that trigger internal cooldowns and a redesign of the weapon sets (not all the abilities need a redesign but there are weapon abilities which are clearly not worth using and which lack synergy in the weapon set).

This was one of the posts I agreed with the most, especially the part about needing a trait redesign and Anet’s nerfing.

Maugetarr.6823:

With all the talk about how the thief can get away if things go awry for them, I would like to know when retreat became a form of victory in people’s minds. So you didn’t get the 10 points in PvP or the chance for badge drops in WvW, but if you force a thief to retreat, you have won.

Because no repair cost, no loot for enemy, and you don’t have to waypoint. 3 reasons.

I’ll repeat it again, a good builded thief, cannot die, and somehow always has hp/iniative left (even after consta-spamming them over 40 secs with maybe 4-5 secs pause max). This should not be possible.

Warrior is a joke compared to thiefs. CC the warrior and he’s dead, can’t do anything. CC a thief, he cloacks, gets away.

I saw 20 thiefs use Shadow Refuge today. Some with very low hp (almost dead). Having played thief myself in wvw (lvl 53) I know aoe’s inside Shadow refuge field can easely kill thief. I did all my aoe’s (over 8k damage, and many dots), thief had low hp when he used it. And he STILL ESCAPED. you read this? Still. I’m all out of creativity, on how to catch and kill a thief. They always escape, always, unless they are noobs, who rarely cloack.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Maugetarr.6823:

With all the talk about how the thief can get away if things go awry for them, I would like to know when retreat became a form of victory in people’s minds. So you didn’t get the 10 points in PvP or the chance for badge drops in WvW, but if you force a thief to retreat, you have won.

Because no repair cost, no loot for enemy, and you don’t have to waypoint. 3 reasons.

I’ll repeat it again, a good builded thief, cannot die, and somehow always has hp/iniative left (even after consta-spamming them over 40 secs with maybe 4-5 secs pause max). This should not be possible.

Warrior is a joke compared to thiefs. CC the warrior and he’s dead, can’t do anything. CC a thief, he cloacks, gets away.

I saw 20 thiefs use Shadow Refuge today. Some with very low hp (almost dead). Having played thief myself in wvw (lvl 53) I know aoe’s inside Shadow refuge field can easely kill thief. I did all my aoe’s (over 8k damage, and many dots), thief had low hp when he used it. And he STILL ESCAPED. you read this? Still. I’m all out of creativity, on how to catch and kill a thief. They always escape, always, unless they are noobs, who rarely cloack.

So no loot for the thief either, and no repair cost for you, however you now control the point you were trying to take or defend. Also if you lasted 45 seconds then forced the thief to retreat, that sounds like a rather balanced fight to me. As arena net keeps stating through words and small buffs to speed, thieves are supposed to be the most mobile, and they are on par with an elementalist. And imagine that, thieves using their most useful utility.

Maugetarr.6823:

XII.9401:

Hit for 9968 damage in under a second in the opening attack.
5217 from steal alone.
Full exotic toughness armor and weapons engineer. Full exotic vitality jewelry.

Health pool is 21382 so almost half my health dropped in the opening attack. And no..no elixir U used =).

So basically I started the fight with half my health gone. So much for toughness/vitality countering the thief’s ‘nerfed’ DPS.

Pic attached.

So you started the fight with right around the thief’s healthpool? Sounds like he started the fight off by evening the odds.

No..I started the fight with the same health pool of a glass cannon who has more dps than me based on his build and gear.
I started the fight with the same health pool as the thief who can stealth to get away from being focused.
So..no..it wasn’t evening the odds..it was using a broken class. Good try, though! (not..)

So in essence..your punished for using toughness/vitality gear and your punished for using glass cannon gear. i.e. What thief players depend on.

Its entertaining seeing how thief players argue and defend the broken mechanics. Reminds me of someone drowning who will grab unto anything =D .

Please fix the handicap mode class..how many pages in this thread do we need ?

XII.9401:

Maugetarr.6823:

XII.9401:

Hit for 9968 damage in under a second in the opening attack.
5217 from steal alone.
Full exotic toughness armor and weapons engineer. Full exotic vitality jewelry.

Health pool is 21382 so almost half my health dropped in the opening attack. And no..no elixir U used =).

So basically I started the fight with half my health gone. So much for toughness/vitality countering the thief’s ‘nerfed’ DPS.

Pic attached.

So you started the fight with right around the thief’s healthpool? Sounds like he started the fight off by evening the odds.

No..I started the fight with the same health pool of a glass cannon who has more dps than me based on his build and gear.
I started the fight with the same health pool as the thief who can stealth to get away from being focused.
So..no..it wasn’t evening the odds..it was using a broken class. Good try, though! (not..)

So in essence..your punished for using toughness/vitality gear and your punished for using glass cannon gear. i.e. What thief players depend on.

Its entertaining seeing how thief players argue and defend the broken mechanics. Reminds me of someone drowning who will grab unto anything =D .

Please fix the handicap mode class..how many pages in this thread do we need ?

Well assuming your screenshot was using the same build, after supply crate was dropped, they would be stunned, then immobilized by the net turret. then you could further immobilize them with the glue shot. Assuming they ever got to you after you loaded them up with every condition, they would then be hurt by confusion, not to mention access to blind and knockback on the flamethrower, plus at least 2 dodges, and then even after all that, elixer s which would negate the last few heartseekers of a thief probably desperately hitting 2 since you’ve blown through most of his 13000 health with no condition removal if he truly was a glass cannon. it is very hard for a snared D/D thief to do much.

Maugetarr.6823:

XII.9401:

Maugetarr.6823:

XII.9401:

Hit for 9968 damage in under a second in the opening attack.
5217 from steal alone.
Full exotic toughness armor and weapons engineer. Full exotic vitality jewelry.

Health pool is 21382 so almost half my health dropped in the opening attack. And no..no elixir U used =).

So basically I started the fight with half my health gone. So much for toughness/vitality countering the thief’s ‘nerfed’ DPS.

Pic attached.

So you started the fight with right around the thief’s healthpool? Sounds like he started the fight off by evening the odds.

No..I started the fight with the same health pool of a glass cannon who has more dps than me based on his build and gear.
I started the fight with the same health pool as the thief who can stealth to get away from being focused.
So..no..it wasn’t evening the odds..it was using a broken class. Good try, though! (not..)

So in essence..your punished for using toughness/vitality gear and your punished for using glass cannon gear. i.e. What thief players depend on.

Its entertaining seeing how thief players argue and defend the broken mechanics. Reminds me of someone drowning who will grab unto anything =D .

Please fix the handicap mode class..how many pages in this thread do we need ?

Well assuming your screenshot was using the same build, after supply crate was dropped, they would be stunned, then immobilized by the net turret. then you could further immobilize them with the glue shot. Assuming they ever got to you after you loaded them up with every condition, they would then be hurt by confusion, not to mention access to blind and knockback on the flamethrower, plus at least 2 dodges, and then even after all that, elixer s which would negate the last few heartseekers of a thief probably desperately hitting 2 since you’ve blown through most of his 13000 health with no condition removal if he truly was a glass cannon. it is very hard for a snared D/D thief to do much.

That would be a nice rosy world where you actually compete fairly against the thief class!

so:
A.Why should My class start the fight against a thief class with half my health gone.
B.I should have thought of all of that..I mean I have it all set up and stuff..I bet you I could have unloaded all of that in less than a second and dropped the thief’s health to half or zero if he was a glass cannon. Sadly..I can’t do that much DPS in a second.

Blink blink and your dead..welcome to Thief wars 2~!

If your CCed or hit during stealth you should pop out right away..period. Its ridiculous to stay stealthed. ANY action should break stealth. There should be a balance to the stealth ability.

XII.9401:

Maugetarr.6823:

XII.9401:

Hit for 9968 damage in under a second in the opening attack.
5217 from steal alone.
Full exotic toughness armor and weapons engineer. Full exotic vitality jewelry.

Health pool is 21382 so almost half my health dropped in the opening attack. And no..no elixir U used =).

So basically I started the fight with half my health gone. So much for toughness/vitality countering the thief’s ‘nerfed’ DPS.

Pic attached.

So you started the fight with right around the thief’s healthpool? Sounds like he started the fight off by evening the odds.

No..I started the fight with the same health pool of a glass cannon who has more dps than me based on his build and gear.
I started the fight with the same health pool as the thief who can stealth to get away from being focused.
So..no..it wasn’t evening the odds..it was using a broken class. Good try, though! (not..)

So in essence..your punished for using toughness/vitality gear and your punished for using glass cannon gear. i.e. What thief players depend on.

Its entertaining seeing how thief players argue and defend the broken mechanics. Reminds me of someone drowning who will grab unto anything =D .

Please fix the handicap mode class..how many pages in this thread do we need ?

I swear you could replace Thieves with “Bright Wizards” and this thread could be a Warhammer one.

Overpowered Class: "Listen, I’m not overpowered I just hard counter all Builds with “X”."
Everyone Else: "Do you also hard counter “Y”? ‘Cause you’re killing those too"
Overpowered Class: "Of Course, I hard counter “X” and “Y” type of builds".

Repeat for all build types.