Guild Wars 2

XII.9401:

Maugetarr.6823:

XII.9401:

Maugetarr.6823:

XII.9401:

Hit for 9968 damage in under a second in the opening attack.
5217 from steal alone.
Full exotic toughness armor and weapons engineer. Full exotic vitality jewelry.

Health pool is 21382 so almost half my health dropped in the opening attack. And no..no elixir U used =).

So basically I started the fight with half my health gone. So much for toughness/vitality countering the thief’s ‘nerfed’ DPS.

Pic attached.

So you started the fight with right around the thief’s healthpool? Sounds like he started the fight off by evening the odds.

No..I started the fight with the same health pool of a glass cannon who has more dps than me based on his build and gear.
I started the fight with the same health pool as the thief who can stealth to get away from being focused.
So..no..it wasn’t evening the odds..it was using a broken class. Good try, though! (not..)

So in essence..your punished for using toughness/vitality gear and your punished for using glass cannon gear. i.e. What thief players depend on.

Its entertaining seeing how thief players argue and defend the broken mechanics. Reminds me of someone drowning who will grab unto anything =D .

Please fix the handicap mode class..how many pages in this thread do we need ?

Well assuming your screenshot was using the same build, after supply crate was dropped, they would be stunned, then immobilized by the net turret. then you could further immobilize them with the glue shot. Assuming they ever got to you after you loaded them up with every condition, they would then be hurt by confusion, not to mention access to blind and knockback on the flamethrower, plus at least 2 dodges, and then even after all that, elixer s which would negate the last few heartseekers of a thief probably desperately hitting 2 since you’ve blown through most of his 13000 health with no condition removal if he truly was a glass cannon. it is very hard for a snared D/D thief to do much.

That would be a nice rosy world where you actually compete fairly against the thief class!

so:
A.Why should My class start the fight against a thief class with half my health gone.
B.I should have thought of all of that..I mean I have it all set up and stuff..I bet you I could have unloaded all of that in less than a second and dropped the thief’s health to half or zero if he was a glass cannon. Sadly..I can’t do that much DPS in a second.

Blink blink and your dead..welcome to Thief wars 2~!

If your CCed or hit during stealth you should pop out right away..period. Its ridiculous to stay stealthed. ANY action should break stealth. There should be a balance to the stealth ability.

The balance to stealth is that stealth does nothing to prevent damage or cc or condition damage (unless traited which is normally not the case for a glass cannon), just visual and active targeting. The setup I mentioned does not need to happen in a 1 second setup, it is simply what has happened to me playing against engineers that have defeated me. If you survive the initial burst, a D/D thief has fairly limited utility against control, possibly shadowstep which is once every 60 seconds unless also traited. Bathing the area of a snared thief, visible or not, with a flamethrower would have done more than enough to balance the fight in your direction once again.

Furthermore, if a GC thief cant do that sort of (unsustainable) burst, why should he have to constantly start the fight with 2/3 of your health?

EDIT:redundant last sentence

Tulisin.6945:

Causic.3798:

Not sure if its been mentioned,
But Stealth finishing also has to be done away with.
Shouldnt even try and revive someone downed by a thief because the thief will finish him before you can even bring him up.
So please look into this, it is quite tedious.

Stealth finishing is the weakest of the “special” finishers and easiest to counter. Just kill/interrupt the thief, both of those options aren’t even available with most special finishing moves.

Problem lies here, how do I or many around me kill or interrupt the thief if we cant see him?
I don’t feel we should have to Aoe everywhere randomly just to see thieves, then only after that try to kill him. (Which is more a problem with stealth in general)
By “Special” finishers you mean Stability, and that is not so much a problem because you can shoot at the person (doing the finishing) while he tries to finish someone and kill him. With a thief you can’t even do that (because you can’t even see him).

Causic.3798:

Tulisin.6945:

Causic.3798:

Not sure if its been mentioned,
But Stealth finishing also has to be done away with.
Shouldnt even try and revive someone downed by a thief because the thief will finish him before you can even bring him up.
So please look into this, it is quite tedious.

Stealth finishing is the weakest of the “special” finishers and easiest to counter. Just kill/interrupt the thief, both of those options aren’t even available with most special finishing moves.

Problem lies here, how do I or many around me kill or interrupt the thief if we cant see him?
I don’t feel we should have to Aoe everywhere randomly just to see thieves, then only after that try to kill him. (Which is more a problem with stealth in general)
By “Special” finishers you mean Stability, and that is not so much a problem because you can shoot at the person (doing the finishing) while he tries to finish someone and kill him. With a thief you can’t even do that (because you can’t even see him).

Agreed. when they are perma stealthed, then how exactly should we aoe them? Lol.

If you would actually try playing a thief you would soon learn that it doesnt need nerfing. The issue is basically newbs crying. I built my thief mainly foor power toughness and vitality.

If a glass cannon hits you and you arent geared for tough/vitality you will usually die. This isnt exclusive to thieves people. I can almost bet most of the whiners are low lvls with crap gear in wvw getting hit by decked out guys

Causic.3798:

Tulisin.6945:

Causic.3798:

Not sure if its been mentioned,
But Stealth finishing also has to be done away with.
Shouldnt even try and revive someone downed by a thief because the thief will finish him before you can even bring him up.
So please look into this, it is quite tedious.

Stealth finishing is the weakest of the “special” finishers and easiest to counter. Just kill/interrupt the thief, both of those options aren’t even available with most special finishing moves.

Problem lies here, how do I or many around me kill or interrupt the thief if we cant see him?
I don’t feel we should have to Aoe everywhere randomly just to see thieves, then only after that try to kill him. (Which is more a problem with stealth in general)
By “Special” finishers you mean Stability, and that is not so much a problem because you can shoot at the person (doing the finishing) while he tries to finish someone and kill him. With a thief you can’t even do that (because you can’t even see him).

However those professions more often then not have higher health to begin with as well typically access to protection or some other form of mitigation to make them sturdier than a thief would be in the same situation. Not that Black Powder stomps aren’t an option mind you.

Columba.9730:

Causic.3798:

Tulisin.6945:

Causic.3798:

Not sure if its been mentioned,
But Stealth finishing also has to be done away with.
Shouldnt even try and revive someone downed by a thief because the thief will finish him before you can even bring him up.
So please look into this, it is quite tedious.

Stealth finishing is the weakest of the “special” finishers and easiest to counter. Just kill/interrupt the thief, both of those options aren’t even available with most special finishing moves.

Problem lies here, how do I or many around me kill or interrupt the thief if we cant see him?
I don’t feel we should have to Aoe everywhere randomly just to see thieves, then only after that try to kill him. (Which is more a problem with stealth in general)
By “Special” finishers you mean Stability, and that is not so much a problem because you can shoot at the person (doing the finishing) while he tries to finish someone and kill him. With a thief you can’t even do that (because you can’t even see him).

Agreed. when they are perma stealthed, then how exactly should we aoe them? Lol.

Since this post was about stealth stomping… how about you go to the downed person if the thief used cloak and dagger on him and hit 1 till you get the attack chain and then use every attack you have or toss out a CC?

Only because you cant see the thief, it doesnt has to mean that he is not there and if he cloaked on a downed person, the chances are very big that he wants to stomp him.

I don’t have issues with thieves in spvp. it’s the culling in wvwvw that gives them enormous advantages.

Columba.9730:

Causic.3798:

Tulisin.6945:

Causic.3798:

Not sure if its been mentioned,
But Stealth finishing also has to be done away with.
Shouldnt even try and revive someone downed by a thief because the thief will finish him before you can even bring him up.
So please look into this, it is quite tedious.

Stealth finishing is the weakest of the “special” finishers and easiest to counter. Just kill/interrupt the thief, both of those options aren’t even available with most special finishing moves.

Problem lies here, how do I or many around me kill or interrupt the thief if we cant see him?
I don’t feel we should have to Aoe everywhere randomly just to see thieves, then only after that try to kill him. (Which is more a problem with stealth in general)
By “Special” finishers you mean Stability, and that is not so much a problem because you can shoot at the person (doing the finishing) while he tries to finish someone and kill him. With a thief you can’t even do that (because you can’t even see him).

Agreed. when they are perma stealthed, then how exactly should we aoe them? Lol.

If you are talking about AoEing a Thief trying to stomp a teammate, put the AOE on your teammate and autoattack the spot.

Maugetarr.6823:

Columba.9730:

Causic.3798:

Tulisin.6945:

Causic.3798:

Not sure if its been mentioned,
But Stealth finishing also has to be done away with.
Shouldnt even try and revive someone downed by a thief because the thief will finish him before you can even bring him up.
So please look into this, it is quite tedious.

Stealth finishing is the weakest of the “special” finishers and easiest to counter. Just kill/interrupt the thief, both of those options aren’t even available with most special finishing moves.

Problem lies here, how do I or many around me kill or interrupt the thief if we cant see him?
I don’t feel we should have to Aoe everywhere randomly just to see thieves, then only after that try to kill him. (Which is more a problem with stealth in general)
By “Special” finishers you mean Stability, and that is not so much a problem because you can shoot at the person (doing the finishing) while he tries to finish someone and kill him. With a thief you can’t even do that (because you can’t even see him).

Agreed. when they are perma stealthed, then how exactly should we aoe them? Lol.

If you are talking about AoEing a Thief trying to stomp a teammate, put the AOE on your teammate and autoattack the spot.

If i’m on my Shortbow/Longbow Ranger, how do I autoattack the thief? I cant because I cant shoot something i cant aim at.
I refuse to carry a greatsword in the chance this occurs…
And AoEing a thief is easier said than done. (By that i mean he can see my AoE rings on the floor and just wait it out)

Causic.3798:

Maugetarr.6823:

Columba.9730:

Causic.3798:

Tulisin.6945:

Causic.3798:

Not sure if its been mentioned,
But Stealth finishing also has to be done away with.
Shouldnt even try and revive someone downed by a thief because the thief will finish him before you can even bring him up.
So please look into this, it is quite tedious.

Stealth finishing is the weakest of the “special” finishers and easiest to counter. Just kill/interrupt the thief, both of those options aren’t even available with most special finishing moves.

Problem lies here, how do I or many around me kill or interrupt the thief if we cant see him?
I don’t feel we should have to Aoe everywhere randomly just to see thieves, then only after that try to kill him. (Which is more a problem with stealth in general)
By “Special” finishers you mean Stability, and that is not so much a problem because you can shoot at the person (doing the finishing) while he tries to finish someone and kill him. With a thief you can’t even do that (because you can’t even see him).

Agreed. when they are perma stealthed, then how exactly should we aoe them? Lol.

If you are talking about AoEing a Thief trying to stomp a teammate, put the AOE on your teammate and autoattack the spot.

If i’m on my Shortbow/Longbow Ranger, how do I autoattack the thief? I cant because I cant shoot something i cant aim at.
I refuse to carry a greatsword in the chance this occurs…
And AoEing a thief is easier said than done. (By that i mean he can see my AoE rings on the floor and just wait it out)

I would recommend using barrage or poison volley over the spot as well as dropping spike trap or flame trap on the spot. Maybe autoattack won’t be as effective, but such is the tradeoff for using 2 ranged weapons instead of 1 ranged and one close combat.

For the thief itself, having faced tons of them i think that :
-Mobility is fine, it’s their survivability.
-Stealth needs some work due to culling (yesterday IE a thief fully unloaded his pistols to me while invisible) but i’m fine with being a big part of the class.
-Damage is not fine.
Imho the biggest mistake that all assassins/thiefs/rogues developers make about this type of class is that their biggest damage comes when they’re invisible, making it uncounterable and forcing them to play the way we all know.
This should be inverted, their biggest burst should be while they’re visible so that they expose themself into danger when they try to score a kill, and stealth should be used as a defensive skill, in order to recover and appear again to continue the fight.
In every single game i’ve ever played, assassin/thiefs/rogues and so on have always been the most frustrating class to face for that reason, please be the first to break this chain, because i love this game’s pvp, and i don’t want it to die for stupid reasons like this.

Also i think that a big issue right now is not only about the thief itself, but quickness + finisher or stealth + finisher.
Taken that the game is not balanced in 1v1, what makes the thief so “hated” in group fights is that he just pops to you while a second b4 was bilion miles away, istantly kills you, finish you and easily get away even when you’re in a group of 5+ people.
Downed state is there to prevent this, and quickness or stealth (also invulnerability/block/pet) while finishing just negates the complete existence of it.

Thanks for your time and sorry for the WoT

Maugetarr.6823:

Causic.3798:

Maugetarr.6823:

Columba.9730:

Causic.3798:

Tulisin.6945:

Causic.3798:

Not sure if its been mentioned,
But Stealth finishing also has to be done away with.
Shouldnt even try and revive someone downed by a thief because the thief will finish him before you can even bring him up.
So please look into this, it is quite tedious.

Stealth finishing is the weakest of the “special” finishers and easiest to counter. Just kill/interrupt the thief, both of those options aren’t even available with most special finishing moves.

Problem lies here, how do I or many around me kill or interrupt the thief if we cant see him?
I don’t feel we should have to Aoe everywhere randomly just to see thieves, then only after that try to kill him. (Which is more a problem with stealth in general)
By “Special” finishers you mean Stability, and that is not so much a problem because you can shoot at the person (doing the finishing) while he tries to finish someone and kill him. With a thief you can’t even do that (because you can’t even see him).

Agreed. when they are perma stealthed, then how exactly should we aoe them? Lol.

If you are talking about AoEing a Thief trying to stomp a teammate, put the AOE on your teammate and autoattack the spot.

If i’m on my Shortbow/Longbow Ranger, how do I autoattack the thief? I cant because I cant shoot something i cant aim at.
I refuse to carry a greatsword in the chance this occurs…
And AoEing a thief is easier said than done. (By that i mean he can see my AoE rings on the floor and just wait it out)

I would recommend using barrage or poison volley over the spot as well as dropping spike trap or flame trap on the spot. Maybe autoattack won’t be as effective, but such is the tradeoff for using 2 ranged weapons instead of 1 ranged and one close combat.

have you used barrage? Rangers can only barrage in a small area and by the time the cool down is up, the ranger will be eating dirt. Barrage is useless sorry.

Columba.9730:

Maugetarr.6823:

Causic.3798:

Maugetarr.6823:

Columba.9730:

Causic.3798:

Tulisin.6945:

Causic.3798:

Not sure if its been mentioned,
But Stealth finishing also has to be done away with.
Shouldnt even try and revive someone downed by a thief because the thief will finish him before you can even bring him up.
So please look into this, it is quite tedious.

Stealth finishing is the weakest of the “special” finishers and easiest to counter. Just kill/interrupt the thief, both of those options aren’t even available with most special finishing moves.

Problem lies here, how do I or many around me kill or interrupt the thief if we cant see him?
I don’t feel we should have to Aoe everywhere randomly just to see thieves, then only after that try to kill him. (Which is more a problem with stealth in general)
By “Special” finishers you mean Stability, and that is not so much a problem because you can shoot at the person (doing the finishing) while he tries to finish someone and kill him. With a thief you can’t even do that (because you can’t even see him).

Agreed. when they are perma stealthed, then how exactly should we aoe them? Lol.

If you are talking about AoEing a Thief trying to stomp a teammate, put the AOE on your teammate and autoattack the spot.

If i’m on my Shortbow/Longbow Ranger, how do I autoattack the thief? I cant because I cant shoot something i cant aim at.
I refuse to carry a greatsword in the chance this occurs…
And AoEing a thief is easier said than done. (By that i mean he can see my AoE rings on the floor and just wait it out)

I would recommend using barrage or poison volley over the spot as well as dropping spike trap or flame trap on the spot. Maybe autoattack won’t be as effective, but such is the tradeoff for using 2 ranged weapons instead of 1 ranged and one close combat.

have you used barrage? Rangers can only barrage in a small area and by the time the cool down is up, the ranger will be eating dirt. Barrage is useless sorry.

I thought we were talking about a small area focused on your downed teamate in order to try to drive off a thief before they stealth stomp. I have used barrage a little but I did not continue to level the ranger (nothing against rangers, I just didn’t find them as fun as a thief). I have been hit enough to know though that it can deal a decent enough amount of damage to scare off a thief. It may not be a huge area, but we are not talking about guessing a location but rather proactively driving a thief off of a downed teammate. If the thief still manages to stomp the player, they will come out of stealth very soon after and furthermore be crippled. No this may not be perfect, but it is just suggestions with things that have happened to me. Eles, warriors, mesmers, and guardians may be more effective at preventing a teammate from getting stomped, but it still stands that instead of trying to res the person immediately, you would do better to attack the area of your teammate in an effort to drive them off.

Maugetarr.6823:

Columba.9730:

Maugetarr.6823:

Causic.3798:

Maugetarr.6823:

Columba.9730:

Causic.3798:

Tulisin.6945:

Causic.3798:

Not sure if its been mentioned,
But Stealth finishing also has to be done away with.
Shouldnt even try and revive someone downed by a thief because the thief will finish him before you can even bring him up.
So please look into this, it is quite tedious.

Stealth finishing is the weakest of the “special” finishers and easiest to counter. Just kill/interrupt the thief, both of those options aren’t even available with most special finishing moves.

Problem lies here, how do I or many around me kill or interrupt the thief if we cant see him?
I don’t feel we should have to Aoe everywhere randomly just to see thieves, then only after that try to kill him. (Which is more a problem with stealth in general)
By “Special” finishers you mean Stability, and that is not so much a problem because you can shoot at the person (doing the finishing) while he tries to finish someone and kill him. With a thief you can’t even do that (because you can’t even see him).

Agreed. when they are perma stealthed, then how exactly should we aoe them? Lol.

If you are talking about AoEing a Thief trying to stomp a teammate, put the AOE on your teammate and autoattack the spot.

If i’m on my Shortbow/Longbow Ranger, how do I autoattack the thief? I cant because I cant shoot something i cant aim at.
I refuse to carry a greatsword in the chance this occurs…
And AoEing a thief is easier said than done. (By that i mean he can see my AoE rings on the floor and just wait it out)

I would recommend using barrage or poison volley over the spot as well as dropping spike trap or flame trap on the spot. Maybe autoattack won’t be as effective, but such is the tradeoff for using 2 ranged weapons instead of 1 ranged and one close combat.

have you used barrage? Rangers can only barrage in a small area and by the time the cool down is up, the ranger will be eating dirt. Barrage is useless sorry.

I thought we were talking about a small area focused on your downed teamate in order to try to drive off a thief before they stealth stomp. I have used barrage a little but I did not continue to level the ranger (nothing against rangers, I just didn’t find them as fun as a thief). I have been hit enough to know though that it can deal a decent enough amount of damage to scare off a thief. It may not be a huge area, but we are not talking about guessing a location but rather proactively driving a thief off of a downed teammate. If the thief still manages to stomp the player, they will come out of stealth very soon after and furthermore be crippled. No this may not be perfect, but it is just suggestions with things that have happened to me. Eles, warriors, mesmers, and guardians may be more effective at preventing a teammate from getting stomped, but it still stands that instead of trying to res the person immediately, you would do better to attack the area of your teammate in an effort to drive them off.

Have you used classes with AOES? AOE’s have a cast time and typically deal their damage over time. You are not going to AOE a thief on a downed ally before he stomps him, you’d have to pre-emptively AOE your ally and pray the damage was enough to make him not stomp your ally and the LOLroll away. This of course isn’t even accounting for server latency and reaction time.

This is provided of course that your AOE is best used as a low % chance attempt to save a downed ally in the middle of a WvW fight.

There are only a few skills that can stop a thief about to stomp mostly reliably. Those are things like focus pulls. Even then if you are slow your ally is dead anyways.

This is the same reason it’s difficult to kill a thief in a shadow refuge circle with AOE. By the time your AOE actually starts to hit the thief is halfway through it’s pulse duration. They can already run away safely and eat zero damage or choose to stay and grab the full duration.

If you leave SR before the full duration you get the revealed debuff. Just auto attack or cc over your team mate. You know, just like you would any other class.

BUT BUT HES INVISIBLE! Its like people lose the ability to use reason when fighting a thief.

Maugetarr.6823:

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Maugetarr.6823:

With all the talk about how the thief can get away if things go awry for them, I would like to know when retreat became a form of victory in people’s minds. So you didn’t get the 10 points in PvP or the chance for badge drops in WvW, but if you force a thief to retreat, you have won.

Because no repair cost, no loot for enemy, and you don’t have to waypoint. 3 reasons.

I’ll repeat it again, a good builded thief, cannot die, and somehow always has hp/iniative left (even after consta-spamming them over 40 secs with maybe 4-5 secs pause max). This should not be possible.

Warrior is a joke compared to thiefs. CC the warrior and he’s dead, can’t do anything. CC a thief, he cloacks, gets away.

I saw 20 thiefs use Shadow Refuge today. Some with very low hp (almost dead). Having played thief myself in wvw (lvl 53) I know aoe’s inside Shadow refuge field can easely kill thief. I did all my aoe’s (over 8k damage, and many dots), thief had low hp when he used it. And he STILL ESCAPED. you read this? Still. I’m all out of creativity, on how to catch and kill a thief. They always escape, always, unless they are noobs, who rarely cloack.

So no loot for the thief either, and no repair cost for you, however you now control the point you were trying to take or defend. Also if you lasted 45 seconds then forced the thief to retreat, that sounds like a rather balanced fight to me. As arena net keeps stating through words and small buffs to speed, thieves are supposed to be the most mobile, and they are on par with an elementalist. And imagine that, thieves using their most useful utility.

When the thief kills you, you are forced to resurrect at home. It will be more than 5 minutes before you can fight in the front line again. And you also need to repair your armour.

When you beat the thief and he escapes, he can be back in action at the front line within 1 minute. That means he can join any new fights nearby. He also doesn’t need to repair his armour.

How is this considered fair?

oceansofmars.6894:

If you would actually try playing a thief you would soon learn that it doesnt need nerfing. The issue is basically newbs crying. I built my thief mainly foor power toughness and vitality.

If a glass cannon hits you and you arent geared for tough/vitality you will usually die. This isnt exclusive to thieves people. I can almost bet most of the whiners are low lvls with crap gear in wvw getting hit by decked out guys

Other than thief, which other class can 1vs4 noobs in open field and “sometimes” come out victorious?

Even the 2nd most OPed class, the mesmer, has no chance of actually winning a fight 1vs4 in open field. The mesmer might survive, but that’s about it.

No class should be able to 1vs4 enemies, no matter how noob the enemies are. The ceiling of the thief is miles above other classes.

This coming for a thief player who quitted thieving.

Ralathar.7236:

Maugetarr.6823:

Columba.9730:

Maugetarr.6823:

Causic.3798:

Maugetarr.6823:

Columba.9730:

Causic.3798:

Tulisin.6945:

Causic.3798:

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I would recommend using barrage or poison volley over the spot as well as dropping spike trap or flame trap on the spot. Maybe autoattack won’t be as effective, but such is the tradeoff for using 2 ranged weapons instead of 1 ranged and one close combat.

have you used barrage? Rangers can only barrage in a small area and by the time the cool down is up, the ranger will be eating dirt. Barrage is useless sorry.

I thought we were talking about a small area focused on your downed teamate in order to try to drive off a thief before they stealth stomp. I have used barrage a little but I did not continue to level the ranger (nothing against rangers, I just didn’t find them as fun as a thief). I have been hit enough to know though that it can deal a decent enough amount of damage to scare off a thief. It may not be a huge area, but we are not talking about guessing a location but rather proactively driving a thief off of a downed teammate. If the thief still manages to stomp the player, they will come out of stealth very soon after and furthermore be crippled. No this may not be perfect, but it is just suggestions with things that have happened to me. Eles, warriors, mesmers, and guardians may be more effective at preventing a teammate from getting stomped, but it still stands that instead of trying to res the person immediately, you would do better to attack the area of your teammate in an effort to drive them off.

Have you used classes with AOES? AOE’s have a cast time and typically deal their damage over time. You are not going to AOE a thief on a downed ally before he stomps him, you’d have to pre-emptively AOE your ally and pray the damage was enough to make him not stomp your ally and the LOLroll away. This of course isn’t even accounting for server latency and reaction time.

This is provided of course that your AOE is best used as a low % chance attempt to save a downed ally in the middle of a WvW fight.

There are only a few skills that can stop a thief about to stomp mostly reliably. Those are things like focus pulls. Even then if you are slow your ally is dead anyways.

This is the same reason it’s difficult to kill a thief in a shadow refuge circle with AOE. By the time your AOE actually starts to hit the thief is halfway through it’s pulse duration. They can already run away safely and eat zero damage or choose to stay and grab the full duration.

I have dabbled in ele, guardian, engineer, ranger, mesmer, and have leveled a warrior and thief to 80, which is why I mentioned that eles, warriors, mesmers, and guardians would be more effective at this. I have also played against a fair number of these and I am telling you what stops me from stomping a player. I will tell you though that having the thief as my main I try to prevent my teammates from getting stomped by throwing down SR on top of them or using blinding powder over them. You can’t save every teammate from people attempting to stomp them especially warriors with stability, eles in mist form, or engineers with elixir S, but comparatively speaking, stealth is a weak stomp. I would like to point out that a guardian’s downstate knockback, an ele’s mistform (for escaping to a teamate), an engineer’s explosive ability, and a ranger’s interrupt will all affect a thief in stealth. Above everything else, if you have a melee chain ability I would recommend using as you’ll see the chain advance and know you are hitting the correct spot. As for server latency or slow reaction time, your teammate would be dead whether the thief is invisible or not.

CHIPS.6018:

oceansofmars.6894:

If you would actually try playing a thief you would soon learn that it doesnt need nerfing. The issue is basically newbs crying. I built my thief mainly foor power toughness and vitality.

If a glass cannon hits you and you arent geared for tough/vitality you will usually die. This isnt exclusive to thieves people. I can almost bet most of the whiners are low lvls with crap gear in wvw getting hit by decked out guys

Other than thief, which other class can 1vs4 noobs in open field and “sometimes” come out victorious?

Even the 2nd most OPed class, the mesmer, has no chance of actually winning a fight 1vs4 in open field. The mesmer might survive, but that’s about it.

No class should be able to 1vs4 enemies, no matter how noob the enemies are. The ceiling of the thief is miles above other classes.

This coming for a thief player who quitted thieving.

Elementarist, and Warriors for instance.

CHIPS.6018:

Maugetarr.6823:

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Maugetarr.6823:

With all the talk about how the thief can get away if things go awry for them, I would like to know when retreat became a form of victory in people’s minds. So you didn’t get the 10 points in PvP or the chance for badge drops in WvW, but if you force a thief to retreat, you have won.

Because no repair cost, no loot for enemy, and you don’t have to waypoint. 3 reasons.

I’ll repeat it again, a good builded thief, cannot die, and somehow always has hp/iniative left (even after consta-spamming them over 40 secs with maybe 4-5 secs pause max). This should not be possible.

Warrior is a joke compared to thiefs. CC the warrior and he’s dead, can’t do anything. CC a thief, he cloacks, gets away.

I saw 20 thiefs use Shadow Refuge today. Some with very low hp (almost dead). Having played thief myself in wvw (lvl 53) I know aoe’s inside Shadow refuge field can easely kill thief. I did all my aoe’s (over 8k damage, and many dots), thief had low hp when he used it. And he STILL ESCAPED. you read this? Still. I’m all out of creativity, on how to catch and kill a thief. They always escape, always, unless they are noobs, who rarely cloack.

So no loot for the thief either, and no repair cost for you, however you now control the point you were trying to take or defend. Also if you lasted 45 seconds then forced the thief to retreat, that sounds like a rather balanced fight to me. As arena net keeps stating through words and small buffs to speed, thieves are supposed to be the most mobile, and they are on par with an elementalist. And imagine that, thieves using their most useful utility.

When the thief kills you, you are forced to resurrect at home. It will be more than 5 minutes before you can fight in the front line again. And you also need to repair your armour.

When you beat the thief and he escapes, he can be back in action at the front line within 1 minute. That means he can join any new fights nearby. He also doesn’t need to repair his armour.

How is this considered fair?

I would point to the above statements (if you stalemate/cause the thief to run you don’t have to waypoint back or repair your armor). If you are taking or defending a point, you are the frontline. It sounds to me though as if you think thieves never die which is not the case.

Panacea.4927:

CHIPS.6018:

oceansofmars.6894:

If you would actually try playing a thief you would soon learn that it doesnt need nerfing. The issue is basically newbs crying. I built my thief mainly foor power toughness and vitality.

If a glass cannon hits you and you arent geared for tough/vitality you will usually die. This isnt exclusive to thieves people. I can almost bet most of the whiners are low lvls with crap gear in wvw getting hit by decked out guys

Other than thief, which other class can 1vs4 noobs in open field and “sometimes” come out victorious?

Even the 2nd most OPed class, the mesmer, has no chance of actually winning a fight 1vs4 in open field. The mesmer might survive, but that’s about it.

No class should be able to 1vs4 enemies, no matter how noob the enemies are. The ceiling of the thief is miles above other classes.

This coming for a thief player who quitted thieving.

Elementarist, and Warriors for instance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBJ3lUCB5I0

My WvW server is in T1. Players here are good enough that Elementalists and Warriors can never 1vs4 players.

Thieves on the other hand can 1vs4 players and win on a regular basis.

Then let me quote you:
“Other than thief, which other class can 1vs4 noobs in open field and “sometimes” come out victorious?”

I cant tell on which ranking Miller’s Sound was as this video was created, but right now they are T3. Still, even if a server is now in T1 or T99 doesnt matter. Every server has noobs on which Thieves can prey. I for one could fight 8 ppl alone once and then the next time I struggled with only 3 enemies and were always running as they tossed out alot of CCs, alot of Blinds, alot of Slows and were expecting my moves.
Thieves are counterable you just have to know how to play and dont act like a NPC, which most ppl here are hardly capable of.

14k from Stealth.

that’s the problem. The cherry is being able to reset the fight if the thief feels they are at a disadvantage after doing 14k in 3s.

Amins.3710:

14k from Stealth.

that’s the problem. The cherry is being able to reset the fight if the thief feels they are at a disadvantage after doing 14k in 3s.

1. Thieves dont attack from stealth. You seem them clearly till they shadowstep towards you and attack you, means you need to be aware of your surrounding and just need to see the thief first.

2. Thieves only are capable of delivering such a damage in a blink, if they blow all their cooldowns, all their abilities into it and dedicate every traint into it. Yet if you just dodge at the right time (very hard) or just carry a stunbreaker or use a invul ability, or blind the thief and you can nullify a whole character as after that one trick, the thief will be useless for 45 seconds.

3. Totally GC thieves have no condition remove, have no real heal, have pretty weak stealth, no HP and can die from anything.

The only thing which needs to be adressed is how easy that burst can be applied. The damage of it is fine though and Warriors, Engineers, Elementarists are capable of delivering the same, if not more burst.

Thieves should have less stealth options in my humble opinion. Or there should be a counter to stealth; like a Ranger being able to see stealthed opponents.

And culling issues should be fixed. Prioritizing stealthed characters and loading nametags before character models would come a long way.

Oh, and why can the Thief spam abilities while the other classes have cooldowns? If anything, initiative should have been a form of ‘power-up’ like the Warrior where the Thief could perform a special feat every x seconds depending on the weapon he’s using.

Iddiozzia.3489:

Imho the biggest mistake that all assassins/thiefs/rogues developers make about this type of class is that their biggest damage comes when they’re invisible, making it uncounterable and forcing them to play the way we all know.
This should be inverted, their biggest burst should be while they’re visible so that they expose themself into danger when they try to score a kill, and stealth should be used as a defensive skill, in order to recover and appear again to continue the fight.
In every single game i’ve ever played, assassin/thiefs/rogues and so on have always been the most frustrating class to face for that reason, please be the first to break this chain, because i love this game’s pvp, and i don’t want it to die for stupid reasons like this.

Best suggestion Ever. Use this Anet, and all the QQ will go away. They can still escape, still burst. But not anymore combine them into oblivion for the enemy. Now they actually have to be ‘skilled’ to kill en enemy. And not press e few rotations, without enemy resistance at all.

Backstab should do an effect only (like immobalize or stun) but NOT do great burst damage.

Stealth takes 3-4 seconds as it is, stop crying. The only issue with it is culling. But that doesnt happen all the time. And for those that cry about thiefs CnD/steal/Bs combo paired with basilisk wenom – bind your evade button somwhere, that rly helps. And stop running glass cannon builds for pvp. Im a thief and glass cannon thief dont have enough burst to kill me even if he suceeded landing basilisk venom on me, which shouldnt happen at all if you pay attention.

Explain to me why someone who ALREADY spammed 4x heartseeker, used cloack heal (had to be, he used over 12 ini on Heartseeker), He used shadow refuge, and for a miracle i managed to force him to reveal himself out of it (aoeing heavely inside it). So he came out. This means heal cloack cooldown, shadow refuge cooldown.

At that point he could have used CnD. But i was away from him, cause i knew he would use it, and CnD only works if it hits. (PvE learned me that quite fast).

Out of nowhere he cloacks and is NEVER seen again. Combat logs, didn’t add any new cloack and dagger. He just was gone.

Really revealing does nothing.

Yes i pressed ‘select closest target’ all the time. But i select a stupid wall or monster instead of the thief with that. I must tab tab tab until the reveal is over and he cloacks all over again.

And lol at evading suggestion. You guys think it’s this easy? We have only 2 dodge bars. If we have to use them to avoid first combo’s, we have zero defence, zero retreat. The thiefs comes at us, BANG 4x teleported Heartseeker that overrules moving in any way by the opposite profession. You can only dodge heartseeker. Or interrupt it. But that is hard with my ground targeted spells since you jump safely into the air while using your HS.

With 3-5 dodge bars I may be able to beat a thief. As it stands now, meh. All their skills overrule dodging to easely. Steal = teleport (dodge useless), Backstab, unseen, uncoutered, free 20-30% hitpoints of enemy down. What comes then you may dodge, but ONLY TWO. Vigor restores to slowly to have a third dodge ,when someone spams heartseeker.

I think you guys are to used to thief itself, wich has more dodge then any other profession while Ironically, need them the least of all with cloacking mechanism.

He probablly cloaked on someone else. Even rabbits work for that if there wasnt any other enemys around or he used blinding powder, however he cant do that permenatelly and if hes doing just that, well he aint killing you at the momment, and he will run out of initiative or blow all his stealth cooldowns that way, leaving vulnurable.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Explain to me why someone who ALREADY spammed 4x heartseeker, used cloack heal (had to be, he used over 12 ini on Heartseeker), He used shadow refuge, and for a miracle i managed to force him to reveal himself out of it (aoeing heavely inside it). So he came out. This means heal cloack cooldown, shadow refuge cooldown.

At that point he could have used CnD. But i was away from him, cause i knew he would use it, and CnD only works if it hits. (PvE learned me that quite fast).

Out of nowhere he cloacks and is NEVER seen again. Combat logs, didn’t add any new cloack and dagger. He just was gone.

Really revealing does nothing.

Yes i pressed ‘select closest target’ all the time. But i select a stupid wall or monster instead of the thief with that. I must tab tab tab until the reveal is over and he cloacks all over again.

And lol at evading suggestion. You guys think it’s this easy? We have only 2 dodge bars. If we have to use them to avoid first combo’s, we have zero defence, zero retreat. The thiefs comes at us, BANG 4x teleported Heartseeker that overrules moving in any way by the opposite profession. You can only dodge heartseeker. Or interrupt it. But that is hard with my ground targeted spells since you jump safely into the air while using your HS.

With 3-5 dodge bars I may be able to beat a thief. As it stands now, meh. All their skills overrule dodging to easely. Steal = teleport (dodge useless), Backstab, unseen, uncoutered, free 20-30% hitpoints of enemy down. What comes then you may dodge, but ONLY TWO. Vigor restores to slowly to have a third dodge ,when someone spams heartseeker.

I think you guys are to used to thief itself, wich has more dodge then any other profession while Ironically, need them the least of all with cloacking mechanism.

First of all, he probably burned his last utility blinding powder or simply logged out. Second, as long as you’re above 50% health, you should eat the heartseeker as it’s pretty weak(but only above 50).
Third, as many others have stated, the stealth doesn’t protect us from damage and doesn’t break abilities in the process of channeling, necessetating copious amounts of dodges and evades (certainly not the most though…engineer comes to mind). I would also like to point out we lack boons that block, reduce incoming damage, or redirect damage.

Columba.9730:

Causic.3798:

Tulisin.6945:

Causic.3798:

Not sure if its been mentioned,
But Stealth finishing also has to be done away with.
Shouldnt even try and revive someone downed by a thief because the thief will finish him before you can even bring him up.
So please look into this, it is quite tedious.

Stealth finishing is the weakest of the “special” finishers and easiest to counter. Just kill/interrupt the thief, both of those options aren’t even available with most special finishing moves.

Problem lies here, how do I or many around me kill or interrupt the thief if we cant see him?
I don’t feel we should have to Aoe everywhere randomly just to see thieves, then only after that try to kill him. (Which is more a problem with stealth in general)
By “Special” finishers you mean Stability, and that is not so much a problem because you can shoot at the person (doing the finishing) while he tries to finish someone and kill him. With a thief you can’t even do that (because you can’t even see him).

Agreed. when they are perma stealthed, then how exactly should we aoe them? Lol.

Other people have answered for me here, but I’m going to reiterate.

“I can’t find the thief” is not an issue for stealth finishers, you know exactly where the thief is, they’re standing right on top of your teammate. As soon as you realize that, you’ve broken the only real advantage stealth gives. The thief is committing to standing in one spot channeling an action for several seconds, and is extremely vulnerable. Unless the thief is tankier than average, most of them will go down to a single enemy auto attacking that spot (before they finish the channel), much less several friends of the downed person.

Stealthed finishing is extremely simple to counter and has nothing to do with AE, it is the most obvious form of stealth reading and makes your average thief extremely vulnerable.

The vast majority of people having problems with stealthed enemies simply don’t understand that ground-targeted AE effects aren’t the only things in GW2 that don’t require a locked tab-target. In most situations AEs are a bad counter to stealth. Learn to fight without GW2’s built-in auto aim and stealth becomes relatively easy to combat since you can use all of your skills without a target.

Stealth needs a fix. I think that hitting an invisible thief with melee should bring him out of stealth. Asking for AOEs to bring him out of stealth might be asking for a bit much. Just imagine “in real life” you would swing your sword and hit an object and you would know it’s there but hitting something with a grenade wouldn’t let know you something is there.

At the very least when you hit something with melee the thief should be put into the “predator” looking semi-invisible mode. That would help greatly.

These perma invisible exploiting thieves right now are completely overpowered. (dagger/pistol). It’s a mixture of the culling issue and the ability for them to use combo fields from pistol/smokescreen.

Please increase the “revealed” debuff’s time by double in WvW only to make up for the culling issue. It would help a lot.

I think the culling bug should be fixed first. If within a month it cannot be fixed, then stealth within WvWvW must be changed. There are pages upon pages of people leaving WvWvW because of perma stealthed thieves. For every one of those, there are 10x more who quietly leave. Pay attention anet! This is wrecking your game. Please tell us your plans.

It really does make people stop playing. Many people are leaving the game just because this is still broken.

I won’t mention guild/commander names since it’s against the rules but there are huge group of people out there who run around together using this perma stealth build and basically ruin everyone’s day. They can deal with groups of people three times their size because no one can keep track or even see them most of the time. So broken…

Im so OP with culling in place. I have zomg 4 second stealth and after it finishes im still invisible, becouse im not yet rendered to ypur screen ! Oh but w8, those warriors, engineers, rangers, {insert other classes here] are allso invisible most of the fight, getting kills becouse there are simply too many ppl in one spot to render all of them. But im still OP becouse of how culling works. Oh w8, Im not, I actually have to use stealth to be able to use my opener, no matter that im invisible either way. Thats it, rerolling warrior so i can be invisible and use my 10 k swings which does aoe damage as well, yay.

I really hope ANet makes his own mind about the issue and ignores the forum whiners who just want to tear down any class that isn’t theirs.
I love my thief but he isn’t my only character so it’s not like I will care much either way.
as long as all the classes remain fun to play that is all that matters.

I personally am a stealth/crit thief with a bit of condi in between to add the right amount of pressure on target.
If a nerf happens and it touches something I currently do/use, then I’ll just roll with it and/or adapt. Only bad players believe a nerf or 15 is going to allow them to win. They will keep losing and another class will become the “big bad wolf”. Culling needs addressing severely, it gives the thief class a bad reputation, frustrating everyone, and making people call for nerfs that aren’t needed. Please help thief and redeem our class by fixing culling.

In WvW, I know we make the best roamers and I think we were intended to be that way. Once the zerg happens though, we become really irrelevant (cluster bomb doesn’t do much most of our abilities are not meant to affect more than 2 or 3 targets within close proximity) but that’s fine. Zergs are about numbers so I just usuall focus on getting supplies up and building. No complaints from me.

In sPVP, it is the same thing as always…in any game ever involving a stealth class. We are hated because our dynamic confuses our opponents. It can be use defensively and offensively. You chose to make our stealth a none permanent buff to limit aggravating other classes, which I thought was a fair compromise for everyone but there are still many who cry at us if we disappear too often (if only briefly) as it desorientate them. Good pvpers do not bother complaining as they know that and how to counter us easily (aka rooting/stun/daze) and read our stealth patterns (we either attack or run, so it’s easy to guess looking at our HP).

In PVE, no complaints. If we want to be more survivable we can, and if we want to be more offensive we can as well. Pistols has become a bit boring though.

All in all, I think we are fairly balanced. Other classes feel we are OP in certain aspects of the game but in my opinion it is (a) their own classes are a bit weak, for example engineers need some love or (b) they chose the wrong build to take on sPVP or WvW.

Whatever happens: nerf, buff or nothing, I will keep playing thief. Thanks for making a great class ANet.

Oh I know, give thief perma (wow like) stealth and couple of vanishes during combat and lets see how many more qq will that make lol. Would be awesome actually, I would come with my zomgpermastealth backstab , heartseeker one, vanish, backstab heartseeker 2nd, vanish, backtsab heartseeker 3d, vanish, w8 for cooldowns in safe spot and do that again. Arena made a perfect stealth, so in order to bee steathed most of the time u have to work with it, not just push 1 button and u are perma stealthed untill u attack again, but pl still qq…

I like how the whiners continue to spew the “can’t see the thief opening waah waah” line. Not only the thief is visible, but it is the same as if a gs warrior decided to leap on your back and go kittenolol.

CHIPS.6018:

My WvW server is in T1. Players here are good enough that Elementalists and Warriors can never 1vs4 players.

Every server has newbs, chief. “T1” just means you have good coverage and leadership. Doesn’t say anything about the skill level of the average player running around by himself.

CHIPS.6018:

Thieves on the other hand can 1vs4 players and win on a regular basis.

You’re talking about P/D trolls? P/D is, indeed, very aggravating and difficult to fight. Their kills are so slow that you can usually just walk away, though. Because most of them are sitting around in the boonies next to some deer (for easy C&D), trying to make Youtube videos instead of contributing to the scoreboard.

ASP.8093:

You’re talking about P/D trolls? P/D is, indeed, very aggravating and difficult to fight. Their kills are so slow that you can usually just walk away, though. Because most of them are sitting around in the boonies next to some deer (for easy C&D), trying to make Youtube videos instead of contributing to the scoreboard.

Rendering bug+P/d+30 shadow arts regen= God mod against melee.

EvilSardine.9635:

Stealth needs a fix. I think that hitting an invisible thief with melee should bring him out of stealth. Asking for AOEs to bring him out of stealth might be asking for a bit much. Just imagine “in real life” you would swing your sword and hit an object and you would know it’s there but hitting something with a grenade wouldn’t let know you something is there.

At the very least when you hit something with melee the thief should be put into the “predator” looking semi-invisible mode. That would help greatly.

These perma invisible exploiting thieves right now are completely overpowered. (dagger/pistol). It’s a mixture of the culling issue and the ability for them to use combo fields from pistol/smokescreen.

Please increase the “revealed” debuff’s time by double in WvW only to make up for the culling issue. It would help a lot.

Just to play devils advocate, with the help of a friend, turn off the lights, both of you move around and try to poke him with a stick, then try to poke him with the stick again. I can see your point, but I think this would be way to hard to implement (what constitutes “melee” in this game. 130 range? 300 range?). Where do you make the cut off? Please realize some classes don’t have less then 300-400 range (D/D ele to name one). Next, many classes have AoE auto attacks (guardians comes to mind). Would these also knock the target out of stealth? or would they follow other AoE attacks and not break stealth?

I would ask not to double the revealed dubuff in WvW, as it will only push more thieves into BS GC (6 secs out would kill P/D thief, would be a huge nerf to S/D thief, wouldn’t change much with BS GC thief). Be patient and hope the rendering/culling/whatever you want to call it that " perma invisible exploiting thieves" are doing gets fixed sooner rather then later, so we can take a look at stealth in pvp (wvw) before nerfing it into oblivion.

Spiders Spiders Spiders.8043:

I like how the whiners continue to spew the “can’t see the thief opening waah waah” line. Not only the thief is visible, but it is the same as if a gs warrior decided to leap on your back and go kittenolol.

with the culling bug in wvw this is simply not accurate. it grants perma stealth to thieves. others get a few seconds of invisibility too because of culling, but the thieves can restealth once the culling is finished.

Heartseeker hits me for 4.8k
Heartseeker hits me for 6k

over 50% health gone in two fast spammable gap closing attacks.

overpowered ezmode class.

How many 1000s of posts till you fix it ANET?

Marduh.4603:

ASP.8093:

You’re talking about P/D trolls? P/D is, indeed, very aggravating and difficult to fight. Their kills are so slow that you can usually just walk away, though. Because most of them are sitting around in the boonies next to some deer (for easy C&D), trying to make Youtube videos instead of contributing to the scoreboard.

Rendering bug+P/d+30 shadow arts regen= God mod against melee.

I wouldn’t go as far as “god mode,” but it does come close.

The problem with P/D is this:
- Its condition-based ranged damage output is better than almost all power-based ranged builds have against the P/D thief (since their damage doesn’t keep ticking while the thief is stealthed).
- Caltrops-on-dodge and C&D punish you for going into melee range with the P/D thief.
- It has enough sources of stealth besides C&D that even messing up one or two of their C&Ds won’t actually disrupt their “rotation” that much.
- Fighting P/D effectively pretty much requires a more intimate understanding of their build than the player has himself.

The individual components of the build really aren’t that unfair — heck, the auto-attack is downright bad — but the overall package is very hard to deal with.

tagnut.8621:

Heartseeker hits me for 4.8k
Heartseeker hits me for 6k

over 50% health gone in two fast spammable gap closing attacks.

overpowered ezmode class.

How many 1000s of posts till you fix it ANET?

You must continue to provide urgent, persistent and respectful feedback to get this fixed and fair. the culling bug should come first so at least thieves aren’t stealthed or appear to be stealthed during the entire fight. nerf from there if needed.

No the ‘fix culling’ is the latest defence from overpowered thieves.

Yes fix it AND reduce the ease and amount of times a thief can stealth AND remove the bonus damage/spammability of HS AND reduce the damage on CnD, steal, backstab etc.

Too much of everything. its silly. We all knew it was silly at launch and months later its still silly.

tagnut.8621:

No the ‘fix culling’ is the latest defence from overpowered thieves.

Yes fix it AND reduce the ease and amount of times a thief can stealth AND remove the bonus damage/spammability of HS AND reduce the damage on CnD, steal, backstab etc.

Too much of everything. its silly. We all knew it was silly at launch and months later its still silly.

One step at a time. the intent isn’t to punish thieves. the intent is to systematically balance them.

tagnut.8621:

Heartseeker hits me for 4.8k
Heartseeker hits me for 6k

over 50% health gone in two fast spammable gap closing attacks.

I play thief, but never do dagger mainhand. I used to be very frustrated by Heartseeker spam. Then I realized it was a weak tactic overall, because it’s very easy to punish Heartseeker with area attacks or cripple. The last few guys who newb-spammed it at me all ended up dying to a Clusterbomb to the face. So I think the main complaint isn’t really power, it’s that successful counter-play requires more skill than the tactic itself; that’s true of a number of builds across all professions, though.

I could see tuning up the initiative cost or reducing the leap range to make people happy and maybe shake up D/D play a bit. I don’t think it’s required, though.

Groovy.6749:

I really hope ANet makes his own mind about the issue and ignores the forum whiners who just want to tear down any class that isn’t theirs.
I love my thief but he isn’t my only character so it’s not like I will care much either way.
as long as all the classes remain fun to play that is all that matters.

I have a thief and I love it pve. If they nerf to hard I won’t like it either anymore. All my of suggestion clearly pointed only in wvw direction, so this isnt ‘nerf thief to hell, QQ whining’ as you are afraid of. But we both know culling, is OP for thiefs in wvw. Add in higher then PVE stats, and the burst damage gets multiplied harder then low damage professions. Add on top of that thoughness barely making a diff, and thief is to OP. I admit just nerfing damage won’t work. Hell they should keep damage as it is. But cloacking is way out of line. Thief has the most dodges of all professions in the game. (Utilities – Roll for iniative -, skills like Death Blossom, trait, that makes endurance return on dodge, kinda making a thief dodge bar has 3 bars compared to other professions). why is this left out? Why does Anet lay the focus on the strongest ‘retreat’ ability? Normal combat (excluding cloacking thus), with the many dodges thief has, should be sufficient to make them ‘viable’. Spammable cloack makes them OP.

Guardian had a serious Greatsword nerf, and recently altruistic healing nerf. They still adapted, and keep playing. All these thiefs saying ‘but thief will be useless’ are lyers. They are just scared to be pushed to adapt to other (less cowardly) skills then cloack.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Groovy.6749:

I really hope ANet makes his own mind about the issue and ignores the forum whiners who just want to tear down any class that isn’t theirs.
I love my thief but he isn’t my only character so it’s not like I will care much either way.
as long as all the classes remain fun to play that is all that matters.

I have a thief and I love it pve. If they nerf to hard I won’t like it either anymore. All my of suggestion clearly pointed only in wvw direction, so this isnt ‘nerf thief to hell, QQ whining’ as you are afraid of. But we both know culling, is OP for thiefs in wvw. Add in higher then PVE stats, and the burst damage gets multiplied harder then low damage professions. Add on top of that thoughness barely making a diff, and thief is to OP. I admit just nerfing damage won’t work. Hell they should keep damage as it is. But cloacking is way out of line. Thief has the most dodges of all professions in the game. (Utilities – Roll for iniative -, skills like Death Blossom, trait, that makes endurance return on dodge, kinda making a thief dodge bar has 3 bars compared to other professions). why is this left out? Why does Anet lay the focus on the strongest ‘retreat’ ability? Normal combat (excluding cloacking thus), with the many dodges thief has, should be sufficient to make them ‘viable’. Spammable cloack makes them OP.

Guardian had a serious Greatsword nerf, and recently altruistic healing nerf. They still adapted, and keep playing. All these thiefs saying ‘but thief will be useless’ are lyers. They are just scared to be pushed to adapt to other (less cowardly) skills then cloack.

Ok i encourage you to make a non stealth thief. I will come with all my guardian/mesmer and ele and if you beat any of them ill accept that non stealth thief is viable. Heck you couldnt even beat any class.