Guild Wars 2

Columba.9730:

Sorry, but there is noway that rangers are equally as good in WvWvW as are thieves. Most thieves admit that.

Pretty sure if I understood mechanics right you get a better return off stacking Rangers since spirits aren’t on that aoe cap than you do thieves. 3 stone spirit rangers = perma protection for the zerg. Vs 3 Thieves with what Refuge/Blinding powder that effect 5 at most, within shorter rangers, and the defense immediately flops the moment you attack back? Vs perma 25% reduction?

ensoriki.5789:

Columba.9730:

Sorry, but there is noway that rangers are equally as good in WvWvW as are thieves. Most thieves admit that.

Pretty sure if I understood mechanics right you get a better return off stacking Rangers since spirits aren’t on that aoe cap than you do thieves. 3 stone spirit rangers = perma protection for the zerg. Vs 3 Thieves with what Refuge/Blinding powder that effect 5 at most, within shorter rangers, and the defense immediately flops the moment you attack back? Vs perma 25% reduction?

Thieves don’t have protection.

That was the point.

ensoriki.5789:

Columba.9730:

Sorry, but there is noway that rangers are equally as good in WvWvW as are thieves. Most thieves admit that.

Pretty sure if I understood mechanics right you get a better return off stacking Rangers since spirits aren’t on that aoe cap than you do thieves. 3 stone spirit rangers = perma protection for the zerg. Vs 3 Thieves with what Refuge/Blinding powder that effect 5 at most, within shorter rangers, and the defense immediately flops the moment you attack back? Vs perma 25% reduction?

Umm, there’s a lot more to. WvWvW than spirit stacking. Do honestly claim that rangers are better than thieves in WvWvW?

Kasama.8941:

Dual.8953:

@kas: You’re running an all ranged set with access to blinds, dazes and escapes and you’re telling a melee set do what you do except without blinds, dazes and escapes, all while at point blank range. And once again, S/D isn’t a burst spec. It’s more akin to a contol spec.

What are you talking about? All weapon sets has some form of escape skill, and your utility skills and traits offers plenty of ways to avoid damage.

I’m not sure what you are replying to in your last line. Are you saying that adding a burst skill to sword/dagger makes it bad?

S/D’s defenses are CnD and shadow return. FS’s to slow to make the cut. If you nix CnD, S/D thieves will always have to initiate the act to have an escape because Shadow Return is locked behind Infiltrator’s Strike, which is like Shadow Step without ground targetting, thus if you use Infiltrator Strike beside your target, your shadow return will place you beside your target.
And sure there’s nothing wrong with making S/D a burst set in the big picture asside from making thieves completely one note. But I didn’t role a Thief in the betas to be a burster, I roled one to be an agile, tricky, shadow warrior.
Also if you trade S/D’s defense for a burst skill it’ll become completely different from what it was, becoming more attack oriented then S/P. (which is lame imo)

Daecollo.9578:

ensoriki.5789:

Columba.9730:

Sorry, but there is noway that rangers are equally as good in WvWvW as are thieves. Most thieves admit that.

Pretty sure if I understood mechanics right you get a better return off stacking Rangers since spirits aren’t on that aoe cap than you do thieves. 3 stone spirit rangers = perma protection for the zerg. Vs 3 Thieves with what Refuge/Blinding powder that effect 5 at most, within shorter rangers, and the defense immediately flops the moment you attack back? Vs perma 25% reduction?

Thieves don’t have protection.

Sure they do. They have stealth, by far the best protection in the game. They also have 50% speed.

Columba.9730:

Daecollo.9578:

ensoriki.5789:

Columba.9730:

Sorry, but there is noway that rangers are equally as good in WvWvW as are thieves. Most thieves admit that.

Pretty sure if I understood mechanics right you get a better return off stacking Rangers since spirits aren’t on that aoe cap than you do thieves. 3 stone spirit rangers = perma protection for the zerg. Vs 3 Thieves with what Refuge/Blinding powder that effect 5 at most, within shorter rangers, and the defense immediately flops the moment you attack back? Vs perma 25% reduction?

Thieves don’t have protection.

Sure they do. They have stealth, by far the best protection in the game. They also have 50% speed.

Stealth only mitigates with the idea you do not get hit.
They only have 50% speed if they trait for it.
Lets see a defense that doesn’t mitigate any damage if you are hit, vs one that flat out drops it down by 33%. Or vs actual damage negation skills that are inequivocably stronger at reducing damage? Hence Mist form, Elixer S, Blurred Frenzy. Or flat physical damage nulls in Protect me or Endure pain?
Steal is only effective if you do not get hit, but the reality is, it’s not superior to jack crap. If you’re getting hit Stealth won’t save you. If you’ve been immobilized and are eating some hundred blades or locked in an aoe of some sort. Protection serves you bettter, Protect me serves you better, Mist form serves you better. Only thing “special” about Stealth is it’s frequency relative to other defenses. If I put Obsidian Flesh on a thief’s slot 5 instead of stealth, see how fast you’re tune would chance about Stealth being the best protection in the game. roflmao.

Columba.9730:

ensoriki.5789:

Columba.9730:

Sorry, but there is noway that rangers are equally as good in WvWvW as are thieves.  Most thieves admit that.

Pretty sure if I understood mechanics right you get a better return off stacking Rangers since spirits aren’t on that aoe cap than you do thieves. 3 stone spirit rangers = perma protection for the zerg. Vs 3 Thieves with what Refuge/Blinding powder that effect 5 at most, within shorter rangers, and the defense immediately flops the moment you attack back? Vs perma 25% reduction?

Umm, there’s a lot more to. WvWvW than spirit stacking.  Do honestly claim that rangers are better than thieves in WvWvW?

Rangers stack better than thieves, Did you not read? 3 rangers reduce the damage for everyone by 33% vs 3 applications of Refuge.

ensoriki.5789:

Columba.9730:

Daecollo.9578:

ensoriki.5789:

Columba.9730:

Sorry, but there is noway that rangers are equally as good in WvWvW as are thieves. Most thieves admit that.

Pretty sure if I understood mechanics right you get a better return off stacking Rangers since spirits aren’t on that aoe cap than you do thieves. 3 stone spirit rangers = perma protection for the zerg. Vs 3 Thieves with what Refuge/Blinding powder that effect 5 at most, within shorter rangers, and the defense immediately flops the moment you attack back? Vs perma 25% reduction?

Thieves don’t have protection.

Sure they do. They have stealth, by far the best protection in the game. They also have 50% speed.

Stealth only mitigates with the idea you do not get hit, if you are getting hit, it is the worst defense in the game.

You only get hit if you stand still.

Columba.9730:

ensoriki.5789:

Columba.9730:

Daecollo.9578:

ensoriki.5789:

Columba.9730:

Sorry, but there is noway that rangers are equally as good in WvWvW as are thieves. Most thieves admit that.

Pretty sure if I understood mechanics right you get a better return off stacking Rangers since spirits aren’t on that aoe cap than you do thieves. 3 stone spirit rangers = perma protection for the zerg. Vs 3 Thieves with what Refuge/Blinding powder that effect 5 at most, within shorter rangers, and the defense immediately flops the moment you attack back? Vs perma 25% reduction?

Thieves don’t have protection.

Sure they do. They have stealth, by far the best protection in the game. They also have 50% speed.

Stealth only mitigates with the idea you do not get hit, if you are getting hit, it is the worst defense in the game.

You only get hit if you stand still.

Or If Immobilized/ Stunned/KD’d/launched etc’d.
But anyways it’s clear to me your mind works in a bubble, so I recall why I avoid this thread. Full of nonsense.

Reasonable thieves agree that there’s a problem with stealth as implemented.

@kasama: Also, what would you replace CnD with? It’d need some way to appease P/D and S/D without completely overshadowing the builds. Only set that would benefit from no matter what is D/D

ensoriki.5789:

Columba.9730:

ensoriki.5789:

Columba.9730:

Daecollo.9578:

ensoriki.5789:

Columba.9730:

Sorry, but there is noway that rangers are equally as good in WvWvW as are thieves. Most thieves admit that.

Pretty sure if I understood mechanics right you get a better return off stacking Rangers since spirits aren’t on that aoe cap than you do thieves. 3 stone spirit rangers = perma protection for the zerg. Vs 3 Thieves with what Refuge/Blinding powder that effect 5 at most, within shorter rangers, and the defense immediately flops the moment you attack back? Vs perma 25% reduction?

Thieves don’t have protection.

Sure they do. They have stealth, by far the best protection in the game. They also have 50% speed.

Stealth only mitigates with the idea you do not get hit, if you are getting hit, it is the worst defense in the game.

You only get hit if you stand still.

Or If Immobilized/ Stunned/KD’d/launched etc’d.
But anyways it’s clear to me your mind works in a bubble, so I recall why I avoid this thread. Full of nonsense.

Generally need to know where you are to do that. It’s easy to avoid those.

Daecollo.9578:

The thief is going to backstab you within 2-3 seconds and cloak and dagger you after revealed is gone, if you can’t time this you should play a thief and learn how it works.

You’ve obviously never fought a warrior who saves his skills, if he just suddenly bull’s charges you first, yes its easy to dodge, but if he WAITS and uses it a little later, especially at VERY CLOSE melee range, its almost impossible to dodge. (your also ignoring the shield stun warriors have as well.)

it’s posts like this that made these threads utterly pointless. People that lacked fundamental understanding of the class have to give their opinions, even in the forms of counter-opinions.

Let’s just say, d/d thieves are not the ones generating all the QQing. At the same time, snare+100b wars (aka.suicide bombers) are not exactly a worry to most thieves either. They have withdraw, and roll for init you know…

I really have no idea how to utilize double pistols. It looks great and I’d rather have them than the shortbow, but the damage and the abilities seem to be lackluster. I feel like there is absolutely no synnergy between the pistol mainhand and the offhand abilities and the only useful ability worth spending your initiative on is #3. While the pistol offhand abilities aren’t bad, they simply do not fit and are just way too expensive anyway, since you need initiative for your #3. The offhand pistol abilities are great with melee weapons, but downright terrible with a mainhand pistol in my opinion.

Thoughts?

I also noticed that when you trait for Steal stealthing you, it doesn’t stealth you at all when combined with gaining buffs on Steal/damage or poison on steal. Every time I tried to use it infight to cloak it just didn’t cloak at all and was just standing in front of the enemy autoattacking like a fool. Is that intended? If it is, you desperately need to update your tooltips.

I also think that the Thief’s survivability in WvW is just way too high due to stealth being such an incredibly overpowered mechanic. I know I’ll get a lot of flak for that but since stealth has absolutely 0 counters in this game this mechanic is just absurdly op. And yes, I do play a Thief, myself.

Jonny.9370:

Sebrent.3625:

@Jonny.9370 and @Daecollo.9578
There is a massive difference between reacting to something you can actually see being performed and simply guessing what they will perform next.

But how do you know to expect a bullrush and look for it from a warrior? Experiance has taught you that most warriors will prep 100b with a snare. You have adapted and this is no longer an issue. My argument is why do people refuse to apply this to thieves as well?

The difference is in exactly what you said. You “look for” the warrior’s bullrush. Yes, you expect it, but you’re also able to “look for it”. I can expect backstabs all day, but I have no way of looking for them to get that 0.5 sec window to dodge roll, etc..

Jonny.9370:

I have to say, however, trying to think of it from other perspectives has lead me to think that maybe if Steal was not on a seperate GCD from everything else, there would be less of an issue. As it is now, Mug and CnD occur simultaneously and puts you in the perfect position for BS, effectively nulling the cast time of CnD where you would be visible to the opponent. I think that is what you are trying to tell me.

I have little to no problem with the thief being adept at glass cannon vs glass cannon. Like Mesmer, they are largely situated around simply not getting hit … even moreso than Mesmer.

My problems are:

• the ability to constantly “soft reset” a fight for only the Thief (not who they are fighting) with stealth that ¹ Regens health ² Removes conditions ³ Regen initiative quicker ⁴ can be used constantly
• the lack of any cue whatsoever to enable people to dodge roll, block, etc. (see: react to) a backstab.

Daecollo.9578:

Sebrent.3625:

@Jonny.9370 and @Daecollo.9578
It is not about cooldowns. It is about actually seeing the ability and having a chance to react. There is a massive difference between reacting to something you can actually see being performed and simply guessing what they will perform next.

Warrior:

• I see bolas so have a chance to dodge/block/etc.
• I can use condition removal to get out of bolas
• I can see bull’s charge so have a chance to dodge/block/etc.
• I can use a stunbreaker to get out of bull’s charge
• I can see Hundred Blades so I can dodge/block/etc.

Thief:

• I can see him stealth but not I must guess at what time he is going to backstab me.
  He has 3+ seconds to choose from.
  • 2 Dodge rolls don’t even cover 3+ seconds and leaves you with no stamina to dodge cloak and dagger so then what would you do for the next backstab even if this did work.
  • Blocks don’t last longer than 3 seconds but thieves have multiple ways to get more than 3 seconds of stealth.

The thief is going to backstab you within 2-3 seconds and cloak and dagger you after revealed is gone, if you can’t time this you should play a thief and learn how it works.

You’ve obviously never fought a warrior who saves his skills, if he just suddenly bull’s charges you first, yes its easy to dodge, but if he WAITS and uses it a little later, especially at VERY CLOSE melee range, its almost impossible to dodge. (your also ignoring the shield stun warriors have as well.)

Yes, the thief is going to backstab me anywhere in the next 3+ seconds he is stealthed. How exactly does a person guess when during that time the backstab is going to happen? On my Mesmer, I counter with my own stealth but on my Ranger I’m stuck guessing when to use one of my many evades.

As far as cloak and dagger being easy to evade, that’s great except when there are enemy NPCs nearby that the thief simply hits with cloak and dagger to gain stealth again. Then there’s the 3 other stealths I previously mentioned that many stealth-spec thieves are taking.

Sebrent.3625:

Daecollo.9578:

Sebrent.3625:

@Jonny.9370 and @Daecollo.9578
It is not about cooldowns. It is about actually seeing the ability and having a chance to react. There is a massive difference between reacting to something you can actually see being performed and simply guessing what they will perform next.

Warrior:

• I see bolas so have a chance to dodge/block/etc.
• I can use condition removal to get out of bolas
• I can see bull’s charge so have a chance to dodge/block/etc.
• I can use a stunbreaker to get out of bull’s charge
• I can see Hundred Blades so I can dodge/block/etc.

Thief:

• I can see him stealth but not I must guess at what time he is going to backstab me.
  He has 3+ seconds to choose from.
  • 2 Dodge rolls don’t even cover 3+ seconds and leaves you with no stamina to dodge cloak and dagger so then what would you do for the next backstab even if this did work.
  • Blocks don’t last longer than 3 seconds but thieves have multiple ways to get more than 3 seconds of stealth.

The thief is going to backstab you within 2-3 seconds and cloak and dagger you after revealed is gone, if you can’t time this you should play a thief and learn how it works.

You’ve obviously never fought a warrior who saves his skills, if he just suddenly bull’s charges you first, yes its easy to dodge, but if he WAITS and uses it a little later, especially at VERY CLOSE melee range, its almost impossible to dodge. (your also ignoring the shield stun warriors have as well.)

Yes, the thief is going to backstab me anywhere in the next 3+ seconds he is stealthed. How exactly does a person guess when during that time the backstab is going to happen? On my Mesmer, I counter with my own stealth but on my Ranger I’m stuck guessing when to use one of my many evades.

As far as cloak and dagger being easy to evade, that’s great except when there are enemy NPCs nearby that the thief simply hits with cloak and dagger to gain stealth again. Then there’s the 3 other stealths I previously mentioned that many stealth-spec thieves are taking.

Oh em gee, could it be that the thief may be behind you?

Which arc within 360 degrees should we turn to avoid backstab, if we can’t see thieves.

Daecollo.9578:

Sebrent.3625:

Daecollo.9578:

Sebrent.3625:

@Jonny.9370 and @Daecollo.9578
It is not about cooldowns. It is about actually seeing the ability and having a chance to react. There is a massive difference between reacting to something you can actually see being performed and simply guessing what they will perform next.

Warrior:

• I see bolas so have a chance to dodge/block/etc.
• I can use condition removal to get out of bolas
• I can see bull’s charge so have a chance to dodge/block/etc.
• I can use a stunbreaker to get out of bull’s charge
• I can see Hundred Blades so I can dodge/block/etc.

Thief:

• I can see him stealth but not I must guess at what time he is going to backstab me.
  He has 3+ seconds to choose from.
  • 2 Dodge rolls don’t even cover 3+ seconds and leaves you with no stamina to dodge cloak and dagger so then what would you do for the next backstab even if this did work.
  • Blocks don’t last longer than 3 seconds but thieves have multiple ways to get more than 3 seconds of stealth.

The thief is going to backstab you within 2-3 seconds and cloak and dagger you after revealed is gone, if you can’t time this you should play a thief and learn how it works.

You’ve obviously never fought a warrior who saves his skills, if he just suddenly bull’s charges you first, yes its easy to dodge, but if he WAITS and uses it a little later, especially at VERY CLOSE melee range, its almost impossible to dodge. (your also ignoring the shield stun warriors have as well.)

Yes, the thief is going to backstab me anywhere in the next 3+ seconds he is stealthed. How exactly does a person guess when during that time the backstab is going to happen? On my Mesmer, I counter with my own stealth but on my Ranger I’m stuck guessing when to use one of my many evades.

As far as cloak and dagger being easy to evade, that’s great except when there are enemy NPCs nearby that the thief simply hits with cloak and dagger to gain stealth again. Then there’s the 3 other stealths I previously mentioned that many stealth-spec thieves are taking.

Oh em gee, could it be that the thief may be behind you?

wot no.

Look I said it b4 Columba. If there is a distance it must be closed. The thief must take time to close this distance. If you are not beside an npc, than for him to cloak off it he has to go towards it. Play by manipulating the distance between you and the thief so he has to close it to stealth off you, or widen it to stealth off something else. If a thief is hell bent on only Stealth then he loses out on gap closers which means he has to stay in stealth longer to approach you without being seen. This is being conscious. Steal is what 36s recharge at best, if that’s his main gap closer because he’s packed on steal utils than it works against him in that playing distance will force him to pop
A) utils
b) More initiative.

If I’m fighting a warrior, even if I closed my eyes I know he can only go from point A – B in a certain timeframe and to do it faster he has to use abilities to close the gap faster than norm. Same idea extends. The only place this is an issue is the pistol thief where he’s not as bothered by distance though it’s still significant as his bread and butter is based off getting into stealth.

Rangers can be very effective against thieves Columba don’t know what you’re talking about, must be a pistol thief. If you’re trapping if he tries to backstab he’ll set em off. Unquestionably. If he goes to range, your shortbow will beat out his.

Jonny.9370:

Sebrent.3625:

@Jonny.9370 and @Daecollo.9578
There is a massive difference between reacting to something you can actually see being performed and simply guessing what they will perform next.

But how do you know to expect a bullrush and look for it from a warrior? Experiance has taught you that most warriors will prep 100b with a snare. You have adapted and this is no longer an issue. My argument is why do people refuse to apply this to thieves as well?

I am not some sort of elitist and will never profess to be some sort of pro, and I don’t want to come across as someone trying to say L2P, but even I know that there are counters to the BackStab. Especially as a thief player myself. One thing I do notice is often times people will see me then suddenly go on the defensive, before the fight even begins. My GC in WvW has a little over 10k hp with 104 crit damage and 14k with 62 crit dmg in sPVP. If you come to me as glass, you will die in 2-4 seconds, but the same goes for me. In other words, don’t always wait for me to initiate because that automatically puts me at an advantage.

I have to say, however, trying to think of it from other perspectives has lead me to think that maybe if Steal was not on a seperate GCD from everything else, there would be less of an issue. As it is now, Mug and CnD occur simultaneously and puts you in the perfect position for BS, effectively nulling the cast time of CnD where you would be visible to the opponent. I think that is what you are trying to tell me.

Have you thought that perhaps people are adapting and trying to avoid the known combos. But that they’re still failing, and thus still angry?

The “people just don’t know how to counter” argument may have been valid for a month or two. If we’re still saying, “L2P” to people who have been trying for 6 months, doesn’t that mean there may be an issue? If not, exactly how long is something a “L2P” issue?

To me, I think it’s much more of a skill gap than a knowledge gap. Players on the higher end of the skill spectrum seem to handle thieves fine, meaning they win some, they lose some. Moderate to lower skilled players tend to get their kitten handed to them by thieves. I would love to see a world where classes are balanced across all skill levels, but I get the feeling that won’t happen any time soon.

Lol stiv and many other thieves admit that rangers are hugely disadvantaged vs thieves. It’s a joke. CND off of the pet that loses the target, perma stealth, on and on. Heck thieves have constantly voted rangers as their easiest target. There’s no rational debate on this.

Face it Columba, the game is not balanced around WvW and it never will be. If you want balance, go to spvp/tpvp.

So you agree with me about relative performance of thieves vs rangers in WvWvW?

Columba.9730:

So you agree with me about relative performance of thieves vs rangers in WvWvW?

dude, i don’t care about your wvw complaints, how about my complaints that i am kicked from fractals/dungeons parties because my class sux ???

Sebrent.3625:

@Jonny.9370 and @Daecollo.9578
It is not about cooldowns. It is about actually seeing the ability and having a chance to react. There is a massive difference between reacting to something you can actually see being performed and simply guessing what they will perform next.

Warrior:

• I see bolas so have a chance to dodge/block/etc.
• I can use condition removal to get out of bolas
• I can see bull’s charge so have a chance to dodge/block/etc.
• I can use a stunbreaker to get out of bull’s charge
• I can see Hundred Blades so I can dodge/block/etc.

Thief:

• I can see him stealth but not I must guess at what time he is going to backstab me.
  He has 3+ seconds to choose from.
  • 2 Dodge rolls don’t even cover 3+ seconds and leaves you with no stamina to dodge cloak and dagger so then what would you do for the next backstab even if this did work.
  • Blocks don’t last longer than 3 seconds but thieves have multiple ways to get more than 3 seconds of stealth.

Thieves are only extremely strong on initiation if you actually see a thief running towards you he is most likely to Steal CnD backstab combo you. So all you have to do is learn the Steal range dodge when you estimate is close enough he misses his Steal there goes around 4-6k of his burst damage and he wasted his basilisk venom as well. Now say if a Thief is already cloaked and homing into your position you need to react fairly fast once you see a damage tick, use a break stun blink skill or invul skill and boom his burst is gone, now happy hunting!

Thieves are only extremely strong on initiation if you actually see a thief running towards you he is most likely to Steal CnD backstab combo you. So all you have to do is learn the Steal range dodge when you estimate is close enough he misses his Steal there goes around 4-6k of his burst damage and he wasted his basilisk venom as well. Now say if a Thief is already cloaked and homing into your position you need to react fairly fast once you see a damage tick, use a break stun blink skill or invul skill and boom his burst is gone, now happy hunting!
[/quote]

Lol prove what you saying make a video men! After you do all that thing, the thief will just reset the fight, and while you waiting for your dodge to regen, they can spam HS again because there initiative regen is to fast. After you do all that thing you been punished of waiting for your skill because its Cool down, while thief can hit you again because there is no Cool down for there skill. And the bad thing is when thief press a wrong bottom but they miss and they are on stealth mode they still invisible., so if you succesfully dodge there attack is nonsense because they are still invisible, because the rule is they need to hit first before they revealed. Nice what a balance…
And this is the truth a thief can scape to you easily, while other class is having trouble to scape or sometimes no its always, you can’t scape to thief.

DanH.5879:

Columba.9730:

So you agree with me about relative performance of thieves vs rangers in WvWvW?

dude, i don’t care about your wvw complaints, how about my complaints that i am kicked from fractals/dungeons parties because my class sux ???

to each his own. I don’t care about your dungeon complaints. beef up the thief for dungeons/fractals for all i care. no issue with me. the glaring lack of balance with thieves in wvwvw is what bothers me.

Jan – I agree with you. no other class gets thousand of complaints like this, yet the thief apologists just chant L2P. I don’t have problems with any other class, because I can see them and plan accordingly. these thieves seem to think that the answer is for us to read minds, run away or to play a thief. that’s all they can use to defend their laughably overpowered class. even many thieves admit that stealth is whacked in this game. I’ve never seen a game where one class can initiate AND continue attacks while in stealth. In addition, other games also don’t have culling bugs that can be exploited to create perma stealth.

Columba.9730:

Jan – I agree with you. no other class gets thousand of complaints like this, yet the thief apologists just chant L2P. I don’t have problems with any other class, because I can see them and plan accordingly. these thieves seem to think that the answer is for us to read minds, run away or to play a thief. that’s all they can use to defend their laughably overpowered class. even many thieves admit that stealth is whacked in this game. I’ve never seen a game where one class can initiate AND continue attacks while in stealth. In addition, other games also don’t have culling bugs that can be exploited to create perma stealth.

You talk about it like it’s a “feature” then admit it’s an unintended bug. Learn 2 consistency.

ViRuE.3612:

jan.9745:

Im sorry but you are the one, who dont know what you are talking. Watch this video on how fast is the initiative regen make sure you watch the entire video! You are the one need to L2P and you are the one need to learn how to play a real man dont hide!
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/external?l=http%3A%2F%2Fm.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DZCWywAXmVP4

I love that video, keep posting it everywhere. It pretty much proves this:

- The thief beats terrible players
- The thief quickly beats uplevelled players
- The thief admits that smart players give him trouble
- The thief admits that many duels with dagger elementalists can last up to 8 minutes
- The thief can trait for different things (shock, horror!) and one of those includes initiative regen
- There are a TON of really bad players in WvWvW
- There are a TON of really bad players who regardless of the ways to counter a thief and regardless of how many times you tell them still won’t get it

Honestly, I hardly even need to mention some of that zerg (which in actual fact he barely annoyed) killed themselves going over the cliff. 99% of them didn’t even care he was there at all.

I’ll quote Jonathan Sharp here:

“Thieves are the masters of mobility, stealth and high single target damage. They can be very fragile if you counter their stealth with area of effects or large stacks of conditions, but they trade this fragility in order to have some of the highest burst damage in the game.”

Exactly what you saw in the video – mobility, stealth, high DPS burst and taking on chosen targets which are natuarlly squishy, uplevelled or… I dunno, maybe just there to make up a zerg and get some karma or something. Anytime anyone with any clue at all turned their attention on the thief he was in trouble.

Still, I guess he doesn’t post videos of himself getting his kitten handed to him. I mean it doesn’t take much, you can see his health and sats. I have similar armor/toughness on my thief and let me tell you I fold like a wet paper bag against good players regardless if I’m in stealth or not.

ok so highest dps, perma stealth and best mobility? if so, that’s broken. It’s always the same thing with you guys. Anyone who questions your god mode needs to l2p. why is it that thieves get 10x+ the complaints of other classes, and we don’t see these players complaining about other classes? logic disconnect.

Columba.9730:

ViRuE.3612:

jan.9745:

Im sorry but you are the one, who dont know what you are talking. Watch this video on how fast is the initiative regen make sure you watch the entire video! You are the one need to L2P and you are the one need to learn how to play a real man dont hide!
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/external?l=http%3A%2F%2Fm.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DZCWywAXmVP4

I love that video, keep posting it everywhere. It pretty much proves this:

- The thief beats terrible players
- The thief quickly beats uplevelled players
- The thief admits that smart players give him trouble
- The thief admits that many duels with dagger elementalists can last up to 8 minutes
- The thief can trait for different things (shock, horror!) and one of those includes initiative regen
- There are a TON of really bad players in WvWvW
- There are a TON of really bad players who regardless of the ways to counter a thief and regardless of how many times you tell them still won’t get it

Honestly, I hardly even need to mention some of that zerg (which in actual fact he barely annoyed) killed themselves going over the cliff. 99% of them didn’t even care he was there at all.

I’ll quote Jonathan Sharp here:

“Thieves are the masters of mobility, stealth and high single target damage. They can be very fragile if you counter their stealth with area of effects or large stacks of conditions, but they trade this fragility in order to have some of the highest burst damage in the game.”

Exactly what you saw in the video – mobility, stealth, high DPS burst and taking on chosen targets which are natuarlly squishy, uplevelled or… I dunno, maybe just there to make up a zerg and get some karma or something. Anytime anyone with any clue at all turned their attention on the thief he was in trouble.

Still, I guess he doesn’t post videos of himself getting his kitten handed to him. I mean it doesn’t take much, you can see his health and sats. I have similar armor/toughness on my thief and let me tell you I fold like a wet paper bag against good players regardless if I’m in stealth or not.

ok so highest dps, perma stealth and best mobility? if so, that’s broken. It’s always the same thing with you guys. Anyone who questions your god mode needs to l2p. why is it that thieves get 10x+ the complaints of other classes, and we don’t see these players complaining about other classes? logic disconnect.

That does sound broken, I wish I was an elementalist with warrior dps and some how the ability to ignore revealed and use stealth forever.

Whatever this class is, its absolutely rediculous and needs nerfed, but I’m reporting the above post because it obviously belongs someplace else.

Lets all go on the Warementalthief forums and call nerfs.

Its funny how only thieves are the ones that say we are noobs when we can’t kill them. Funny that.

Henrik.7560:

Its funny how only thieves are the ones that say we are noobs when we can’t kill them. Funny that.

their response is either learn how to read minds, run away or play a thief. if you explain that those aren’t reasonable options, then you get the l2p mantra.

Columba.9730:

ViRuE.3612:

jan.9745:

Im sorry but you are the one, who dont know what you are talking. Watch this video on how fast is the initiative regen make sure you watch the entire video! You are the one need to L2P and you are the one need to learn how to play a real man dont hide!
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/external?l=http%3A%2F%2Fm.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DZCWywAXmVP4

I love that video, keep posting it everywhere. It pretty much proves this:

- The thief beats terrible players
- The thief quickly beats uplevelled players
- The thief admits that smart players give him trouble
- The thief admits that many duels with dagger elementalists can last up to 8 minutes
- The thief can trait for different things (shock, horror!) and one of those includes initiative regen
- There are a TON of really bad players in WvWvW
- There are a TON of really bad players who regardless of the ways to counter a thief and regardless of how many times you tell them still won’t get it

Honestly, I hardly even need to mention some of that zerg (which in actual fact he barely annoyed) killed themselves going over the cliff. 99% of them didn’t even care he was there at all.

I’ll quote Jonathan Sharp here:

“Thieves are the masters of mobility, stealth and high single target damage. They can be very fragile if you counter their stealth with area of effects or large stacks of conditions, but they trade this fragility in order to have some of the highest burst damage in the game.”

Exactly what you saw in the video – mobility, stealth, high DPS burst and taking on chosen targets which are natuarlly squishy, uplevelled or… I dunno, maybe just there to make up a zerg and get some karma or something. Anytime anyone with any clue at all turned their attention on the thief he was in trouble.

Still, I guess he doesn’t post videos of himself getting his kitten handed to him. I mean it doesn’t take much, you can see his health and sats. I have similar armor/toughness on my thief and let me tell you I fold like a wet paper bag against good players regardless if I’m in stealth or not.

ok so highest dps, perma stealth and best mobility? if so, that’s broken. It’s always the same thing with you guys. Anyone who questions your god mode needs to l2p. why is it that thieves get 10x+ the complaints of other classes, and we don’t see these players complaining about other classes? logic disconnect.

Highest BURST damage, stealth, mobility for your initiative (wont be able to engage after because of lack ofinitiative) . What do thieves trade for damage thier toughness and hp.

Ele high sustained damage, high survivability, has 3 breakstuns skills that, teles, stability, invul, and gives them regneration and vigor, has really good mobility but doesnt have the highest dps.

100b Warriors High DPS, High HP, Lots of CC, trade for Toughness and some HP.

These are the 3 classes being cried nerf they all give away something and accels at others.

Columba.9730:

Henrik.7560:

Its funny how only thieves are the ones that say we are noobs when we can’t kill them. Funny that.

their response is either learn how to read minds, run away or play a thief. if you explain that those aren’t reasonable options, then you get the l2p mantra.

You have you own mantra too. And you seem to be strictly against improving yourself. Also of course Thief players defend their class. Just as Eles defend eles, mesmers defend mesmers, rangers defend rangers and so on. (And Yes, Ranger OP threads do exist).
Why should we as players of our respective professions let laymen spread falsehoods about our classes?
Also this “mind reading” you seem to think we’re spouting is pretty much, us saying, use common sense and logical deduction to make educated guesses on what we’re doing. It’s a basic skill of any PvP game. Once you master it, you won’t just react to your opponent, you’ll be able to guess what they’re going to do next and gain access to many setup and counter strategies.

its a 360 degree arc. where should I use the aoe that anet advises we use to fight stealthers? I’ve tried all sorts of directions, i constantly move, i turn constantly and use evade skills. yet somehown I get back stabbed, and somehow i never see the attacking thieves. I also cannot seem to reliably hit said thief with my aoe.. I would dearly appreciate any help you can provide to balance these fights. thank you for your help.

the only way out of this is for a-net to nerf the thief in wvw even more, and give some buffs for pve, deal ???

DanH.5879:

the only way out of this is for a-net to nerf the thief in wvw even more, and give some buffs for pve, deal ???

sounds great to me. although I’d like to see the nerf simply offset the benefits thieves get from the culling bug and guarantee 3 seconds of visibility no matter what.

Columba.9730:

its a 360 degree arc. where should I use the aoe that anet advises we use to fight stealthers?

If you think a back attack is imminent, then behind you or around you. Personally I don’t blow my cooldowns unless I think it’s a sure shoot, instead I stay moving and swiping my auto attack (sword for the record). I generally go in a circle if I have no leads, so I’m that much more unapproachable.

Dual.8953:

Columba.9730:

its a 360 degree arc. where should I use the aoe that anet advises we use to fight stealthers?

If you think a back attack is imminent, then behind you or around you. Personally I don’t blow my cooldowns unless I think it’s a sure shoot, instead I stay moving and swiping my auto attack (sword for the record). I generally go in a circle if I have no leads, so I’m that much more unapproachable.

well thank you. i do that indeed. unfortunately, decent thieves don’t seem to move in that sort of path, but I shall continue to attempt that.

Fix the ability queue.
Very annoying to double click heartseeker by misstake and see ur character lose control and jump away.

DanH.5879:

the only way out of this is for a-net to nerf the thief in wvw even more, and give some buffs for pve, deal ???

Isn’t thief supposed to be a PvP class? How’s nerfing PvP and buffing PvE going to work, that’s a stupid deal.

rylark.3418:

DanH.5879:

the only way out of this is for a-net to nerf the thief in wvw even more, and give some buffs for pve, deal ???

Isn’t thief supposed to be a PvP class? How’s nerfing PvP and buffing PvE going to work, that’s a stupid deal.

No such thing as a “PvP” class in this game, and if it is, its behind all others.

Daecollo.9578:

rylark.3418:

DanH.5879:

the only way out of this is for a-net to nerf the thief in wvw even more, and give some buffs for pve, deal ???

Isn’t thief supposed to be a PvP class? How’s nerfing PvP and buffing PvE going to work, that’s a stupid deal.

No such thing as a “PvP” class in this game, and if it is, its behind all others.

In high dungeons thief isn’t needed, that just basicly tells you there’s better classes for PvE. Thief/assassin in almost every MMO is a PvP class, nerfing thief in PvP and buffing him on PvE is non-sense.

rylark.3418:

Daecollo.9578:

rylark.3418:

DanH.5879:

the only way out of this is for a-net to nerf the thief in wvw even more, and give some buffs for pve, deal ???

Isn’t thief supposed to be a PvP class? How’s nerfing PvP and buffing PvE going to work, that’s a stupid deal.

No such thing as a “PvP” class in this game, and if it is, its behind all others.

In high dungeons thief isn’t needed, that just basicly tells you there’s better classes for PvE. Thief/assassin in almost every MMO is a PvP class, nerfing thief in PvP and buffing him on PvE is non-sense.

Pvp class? Sorry, there is no such things as pve or pvp classes in here, and not really in other mmo’s either.

Boomstin.3460:

rylark.3418:

Daecollo.9578:

rylark.3418:

DanH.5879:

the only way out of this is for a-net to nerf the thief in wvw even more, and give some buffs for pve, deal ???

Isn’t thief supposed to be a PvP class? How’s nerfing PvP and buffing PvE going to work, that’s a stupid deal.

No such thing as a “PvP” class in this game, and if it is, its behind all others.

In high dungeons thief isn’t needed, that just basicly tells you there’s better classes for PvE. Thief/assassin in almost every MMO is a PvP class, nerfing thief in PvP and buffing him on PvE is non-sense.

Pvp class? Sorry, there is no such things as pve or pvp classes in here, and not really in other mmo’s either.

Yes there is, assassin/thief/rogue w/e in almost every MMO is the best or one of the best 1v1 pvp class. Because they’re focused on bursting one single target down as quick as possible, that makes him a good pvp class.

They just need to fix stealth really.

Stealth lasts max 5 seconds, revealed lasts minimum 5 seconds.

Simple really.

rylark.3418:

Boomstin.3460:

rylark.3418:

Daecollo.9578:

rylark.3418:

DanH.5879:

the only way out of this is for a-net to nerf the thief in wvw even more, and give some buffs for pve, deal ???

Isn’t thief supposed to be a PvP class? How’s nerfing PvP and buffing PvE going to work, that’s a stupid deal.

No such thing as a “PvP” class in this game, and if it is, its behind all others.

In high dungeons thief isn’t needed, that just basicly tells you there’s better classes for PvE. Thief/assassin in almost every MMO is a PvP class, nerfing thief in PvP and buffing him on PvE is non-sense.

Pvp class? Sorry, there is no such things as pve or pvp classes in here, and not really in other mmo’s either.

Yes there is, assassin/thief/rogue w/e in almost every MMO is the best or one of the best 1v1 pvp class. Because they’re focused on bursting one single target down as quick as possible, that makes him a good pvp class.

No there isn’t any such thing as a pvp class, sorry. All classes should be equally fun in all facets of the game.

xiv.7136:

They just need to fix stealth really.

Stealth lasts max 5 seconds, revealed lasts minimum 5 seconds.

Simple really.

Lmao, that’s a QQ nerf. You already have 3sec that thieves can’t go invis, enough time for you to burst him down.

rylark.3418:

xiv.7136:

They just need to fix stealth really.

Stealth lasts max 5 seconds, revealed lasts minimum 5 seconds.

Simple really.

Lmao, that’s a QQ nerf. You already have 3sec that thieves can’t go invis, enough time for you to burst him down.

I play a thief.

A thief who lets himself be seen for 3 seconds doesn’t know how to play really. There’s no such thing as “3 sec that thieves can’t go invis”.

You can be in stealth 100% of the time and escape any CC, forever.