Guild Wars 2

Are you playing against guys with 1-5rank? You can’t go invis for 3sec after you go out of it by attacking, there’s no such 100% stealth, you’ve a limit of sec to be stealthed.
You can’t escape from CC forever, you don’t have many abilities to break through CC actually.

Doesn’t seem like you play thief at all, get your facts straight.

rylark.3418:

Are you playing against guys with 1-5rank? You can’t go invis for 3sec after you go out of it by attacking, there’s no such 100% stealth, you’ve a limit of sec to be stealthed.
You can’t escape from CC forever, you don’t have many abilities to break through CC actually.

Doesn’t seem like you play thief at all, get your facts straight.

I didn’t say while attacking a target. And you can just dodge for the few seconds out of stealth after attacking anyway. D/P of course. And yes, you can escape CC forever with stealth, IA and SS and blinds.

1st: No you can’t get 100% stealth, it’s impossible.
2nd: You run out of endurance after your 2 dodges, unless you’re a caltrop thief.
3rd: IA uses a lot of initiative, and if you’re CC that won’t break through it. SS has a lot of cooldown which won’t alow you to run through CC forever. You’re not a thief for sure, stop creating fake arguments to get thief nerfed.

rylark.3418:

1st: No you can’t get 100% stealth, it’s impossible.

You must be new to playing a thief.

Here, I’m feeling charitable. I’ll teach you.

Get ready, I’m about to blow your mind.

Black powder. 3xHS.

Permanent stealth. Forever. You don’t even need a target to C&D.

Now go, impress your friends with your new-found thief skills.

xiv.7136:

rylark.3418:

1st: No you can’t get 100% stealth, it’s impossible.

You must be new to playing a thief.

Here, I’m feeling charitable. I’ll teach you.

Get ready, I’m about to blow your mind.

Black powder. 3xHS.

Permanent stealth. Forever. You don’t even need a target to C&D.

Now go, impress your friends with your new-found thief skills.

facepalm
That gives you 5sec of stealth and you run out of initiative smart guy. So I don’t see where’s the “perma stealth” you’re talking about. By the way it’s much easier if you use blinding powder and spam 3 cluster bombs into the field, same effect and quicker.
Thanks for the advice, I’m impressing my friends by your non-sense and they’re laughing at it.

rylark.3418:

xiv.7136:

rylark.3418:

1st: No you can’t get 100% stealth, it’s impossible.

You must be new to playing a thief.

Here, I’m feeling charitable. I’ll teach you.

Get ready, I’m about to blow your mind.

Black powder. 3xHS.

Permanent stealth. Forever. You don’t even need a target to C&D.

Now go, impress your friends with your new-found thief skills.

facepalm
That gives you 5sec of stealth and you run out of initiative smart guy. So I don’t see where’s the “perma stealth” you’re talking about. By the way it’s much easier if you use blinding powder and spam 3 cluster bombs into the field, same effect and quicker.
Thanks for the advice, I’m impressing my friends by your non-sense and they’re laughing at it.

Running out of initiative means you don’t know how to build.

You bad, PEBKAC, L2P, other internet stuff.

Anyway, one other way to balance stealth would be to increase damage taken in stealth, giving it a more appropriate risk-reward ratio.

Oh yea using a stealth build will give you some initiative from going into stealth, you still run out of initiative with that.

rylark.3418:

1st: No you can’t get 100% stealth, it’s impossible.
2nd: You run out of endurance after your 2 dodges, unless you’re a caltrop thief.
3rd: IA uses a lot of initiative, and if you’re CC that won’t break through it. SS has a lot of cooldown which won’t alow you to run through CC forever. You’re not a thief for sure, stop creating fake arguments to get thief nerfed.

Wrong. How do you explain the perma stealth video posted in this forum. Second with culling its easy.

The perma stealth was a bug and it’s fixed long ago, stealth has now a time limitation.

The culling is an issue that needs to be fixed indeed, but even with culling you can still kill the thief with the 3sec revealed.

rylark.3418:

The perma stealth was a bug and it’s fixed long ago, stealth has now a time limitation.

No. It’s still possible. See the recent video. Secondly with culling its easy.

Columba.9730:

rylark.3418:

The perma stealth was a bug and it’s fixed long ago, stealth has now a time limitation.

No. It’s still possible. See the recent video. Secondly with culling its easy.

Could you please link me the vid you’re talking about?
I’ve fought against thieves and the culling isn’t that big, that’s just an excuse. The culling issue, at least what I’ve seen, was never more 0.5sec, not even close.

rylark.3418:

Columba.9730:

rylark.3418:

The perma stealth was a bug and it’s fixed long ago, stealth has now a time limitation.

No. It’s still possible. See the recent video. Secondly with culling its easy.

Could you please link me the vid you’re talking about?
I’ve fought against thieves and the culling isn’t that big, that’s just an excuse. The culling issue, at least what I’ve seen, was never more 0.5sec, not even close.

It’s on this forum. Front page.

Lol culling is longer than 0.5s. People wouldn’t be this upset over 0.5 s, lol

xiv.7136:

rylark.3418:

1st: No you can’t get 100% stealth, it’s impossible.

You must be new to playing a thief.

Here, I’m feeling charitable. I’ll teach you.

Get ready, I’m about to blow your mind.

Black powder. 3xHS.

Permanent stealth. Forever. You don’t even need a target to C&D.

Now go, impress your friends with your new-found thief skills.

Black Powder has a 4 second duration.

Vital Shot/Body Shot/Black Powder have a slow refire rate of 0.75 seconds.

Heartseeker has a 0.75 (3/4) channal time.

That is 1.5 seconds, now you must turn around, RUN into the circle (since you just used heartseeker, your away from it.) and then heartseeker again, which usually can’t happen until the combo field ends.

You must be IN the combo field and use heartseeker, so the most you could possible get per Black Powder is ‘2’ heartseekers.

Daecollo.9578:

xiv.7136:

rylark.3418:

1st: No you can’t get 100% stealth, it’s impossible.

You must be new to playing a thief.

Here, I’m feeling charitable. I’ll teach you.

Get ready, I’m about to blow your mind.

Black powder. 3xHS.

Permanent stealth. Forever. You don’t even need a target to C&D.

Now go, impress your friends with your new-found thief skills.

Black Powder has a 4 second duration.

Vital Shot/Body Shot/Black Powder have a slow refire rate of 0.75 seconds.

Heartseeker has a 0.75 (3/4) channal time.

That is 1.5 seconds, now you must turn around, RUN into the circle (since you just used heartseeker, your away from it.) and then heartseeker again, which usually can’t happen until the combo field ends.

You must be IN the combo field and use heartseeker, so the most you could possible get per Black Powder is ‘2’ heartseekers.

Wrong mate, if you can actually do 3. 1 inside, 2nd from outside of the field to inside the field (yes it works), and the 3rd in the field again. But still, that gives you 5sec stealth and you run out of initiative.

rylark.3418:

Daecollo.9578:

xiv.7136:

rylark.3418:

1st: No you can’t get 100% stealth, it’s impossible.

You must be new to playing a thief.

Here, I’m feeling charitable. I’ll teach you.

Get ready, I’m about to blow your mind.

Black powder. 3xHS.

Permanent stealth. Forever. You don’t even need a target to C&D.

Now go, impress your friends with your new-found thief skills.

Black Powder has a 4 second duration.

Vital Shot/Body Shot/Black Powder have a slow refire rate of 0.75 seconds.

Heartseeker has a 0.75 (3/4) channal time.

That is 1.5 seconds, now you must turn around, RUN into the circle (since you just used heartseeker, your away from it.) and then heartseeker again, which usually can’t happen until the combo field ends.

You must be IN the combo field and use heartseeker, so the most you could possible get per Black Powder is ‘2’ heartseekers.

Wrong mate, if you can actually do 3. 1 inside, 2nd from outside of the field to inside the field (yes it works), and the 3rd in the field again. But still, that gives you 5sec stealth and you run out of initiative.

Make a video of it please, and please don’t link another video, go to SPVP with an up-leveled thief and make a small video, showing me you can get 3 heartseekers in one black powder.

I don’t have any recording program, don’t want to install it either. Just heartseek out from the field, heartseek back in and again heartseek out from the field. It’s not that hard, but there’s an easier way… Blinding powder and 3cluster bombs in the field, same effect.

Patience, young noob thieves, you must become infused with shadow before you can learn the ways of the perma stealth without running out of initiative.

Yes, I’m entertaining myself talking in riddles to explain basic thief traits.

xiv.7136:

Patience, young noob thieves, you must become infused with shadow before you can learn the ways of the perma stealth without running out of initiative.

Yes, I’m entertaining myself talking in riddles to explain basic thief traits.

And yet you fail to explain how you get your “perma-stealth”.

You can perma stealth with D/P by dropping a black powder and heartseeking through it 3 times. Big deal, who cares, what’s the point? So a thief can permastealth by doing this repeatedly in one spot without attacking, causing damage, or doing anything else but spamming black powder and heartseeking through it. How does this hurt and affect your game play? How does this make a thief OP?

Here’s a vid of a permastealth D/P and how he does it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSbw8Cpy-3s

So this is what you guys are all complaining about? The guy can’t even attack or he will lose his permastealth. With his build he probably hits like a wet noodle, and you complain non stop because he can pick a spot, cast black powder and heartseek through a few times to get perma stealth all while not attacking, not hurting your game play, and not doing anything but stealthing? And notice, after nearly a full minute of spamming this after he started out with a SR, he had a whopping 11 seconds of stealth built up… The trade off, it took him a whole minute to do it… Not really worth it, but I guess it’s worth QQ about right?

You can get perma-stealth!

Just as an example.

Stonemist gets taken. A few mesmers die inside and don’t release.

A thief perma-stealths inside and cannot be found. Once people have left the area after doing several thorough sweeps, he resses the mesmers.

Squad waiting outside.

Portal.

Portal.

Kill Lord without even starting an alert.

Pretty much breaks the whole of WvW I think you will find.

Stealth like that has no place in the current game. It needs to be fixed.

Because some suddenly up popping smoke screens and black powders are totally not obvious…

Panacea.4927:

Because some suddenly up popping smoke screens and black powders are totally not obvious…

Actually no, they really aren’t.

Especially since you need to kill that perma-invisible thief before leaving the area.

A good perma-stealth thief can kite over a dozen people around endlessly. It’s actually very easy to do so.

Now imagine 2 perma-stealth thieves in SM doing this. Now imagine 5.

Perma-stealth is broken. It needs to be fixed.

xiv.7136:

Panacea.4927:

Because some suddenly up popping smoke screens and black powders are totally not obvious…

Actually no, they really aren’t.

Especially since you need to kill that perma-invisible thief before leaving the area.

A good perma-stealth thief can kite over a dozen people around endlessly. It’s actually very easy to do so.

Now imagine 2 perma-stealth thieves in SM doing this. Now imagine 5.

Perma-stealth is broken. It needs to be fixed.

Yes, but what can a perma-stealth thief do if they just ignore him?

Daecollo.9578:

xiv.7136:

Panacea.4927:

Because some suddenly up popping smoke screens and black powders are totally not obvious…

Actually no, they really aren’t.

Especially since you need to kill that perma-invisible thief before leaving the area.

A good perma-stealth thief can kite over a dozen people around endlessly. It’s actually very easy to do so.

Now imagine 2 perma-stealth thieves in SM doing this. Now imagine 5.

Perma-stealth is broken. It needs to be fixed.

Yes, but what can a perma-stealth thief do if they just ignore him?

…. I just explained that. He can ress the mesmers. Portal. Read.

xiv.7136:

Daecollo.9578:

xiv.7136:

Panacea.4927:

Because some suddenly up popping smoke screens and black powders are totally not obvious…

Actually no, they really aren’t.

Especially since you need to kill that perma-invisible thief before leaving the area.

A good perma-stealth thief can kite over a dozen people around endlessly. It’s actually very easy to do so.

Now imagine 2 perma-stealth thieves in SM doing this. Now imagine 5.

Perma-stealth is broken. It needs to be fixed.

Yes, but what can a perma-stealth thief do if they just ignore him?

…. I just explained that. He can ress the mesmers. Portal. Read.

But he can’t be a perma-stealther if he rezes, he has to keep spamming his Black Powder and Heartseekers.

I feel like Jane Goodall trying to explain quantum physics sometimes.

xiv.7136:

Just as an example.

Stonemist gets taken. A few mesmers die inside and don’t release.

A thief perma-stealths inside and cannot be found. Once people have left the area after doing several thorough sweeps, he resses the mesmers.

Squad waiting outside.

Portal.

Portal.

Kill Lord without even starting an alert.

Pretty much breaks the whole of WvW I think you will find.

Stealth like that has no place in the current game. It needs to be fixed.

What’s the point of perma-stealth if you do no damage at all? I’d actually love to fight 5 perma stealth thieves, oh yea get lord what now? I’ll be waiting for your 3k backstab while we’ve 3 points captured and when you appear get ready a burst that you can’t do.

rylark.3418:

xiv.7136:

Just as an example.

Stonemist gets taken. A few mesmers die inside and don’t release.

A thief perma-stealths inside and cannot be found. Once people have left the area after doing several thorough sweeps, he resses the mesmers.

Squad waiting outside.

Portal.

Portal.

Kill Lord without even starting an alert.

Pretty much breaks the whole of WvW I think you will find.

Stealth like that has no place in the current game. It needs to be fixed.

What’s the point of perma-stealth if you do no damage at all? I’d actually love to fight 5 perma stealth thieves, oh yea get lord what now? I’ll be waiting for your 3k backstab while we’ve 3 points captured and when you appear get ready a burst that you can’t do.

More like 1.5k backstabs, he has 0 points in the critical strikes tree.

Daecollo.9578:

rylark.3418:

xiv.7136:

Just as an example.

Stonemist gets taken. A few mesmers die inside and don’t release.

A thief perma-stealths inside and cannot be found. Once people have left the area after doing several thorough sweeps, he resses the mesmers.

Squad waiting outside.

Portal.

Portal.

Kill Lord without even starting an alert.

Pretty much breaks the whole of WvW I think you will find.

Stealth like that has no place in the current game. It needs to be fixed.

What’s the point of perma-stealth if you do no damage at all? I’d actually love to fight 5 perma stealth thieves, oh yea get lord what now? I’ll be waiting for your 3k backstab while we’ve 3 points captured and when you appear get ready a burst that you can’t do.

More like 1.5k backstabs, he has 0 points in the critical strikes tree.

Agreed. Yep 1.5k backstab, being useless at perma-stealth in the same spot while enemies cap points. kitten that should be nerfed, seems OP to me, nerf stealth plz.

Panacea.4927:

Because some suddenly up popping smoke screens and black powders are totally not obvious…

actually not obvious or helpful. Any decent thief moves away from said smoke, and it’s not easy to see. they should make it as glaringly obvious as portals if not more obvious. Lol wth 1900 toughness and 3k armor, backstab hits me for 4500+. NO idea what you are referring to with 1.5k .

rylark.3418:

xiv.7136:

Just as an example.

Stonemist gets taken. A few mesmers die inside and don’t release.

A thief perma-stealths inside and cannot be found. Once people have left the area after doing several thorough sweeps, he resses the mesmers.

Squad waiting outside.

Portal.

Portal.

Kill Lord without even starting an alert.

Pretty much breaks the whole of WvW I think you will find.

Stealth like that has no place in the current game. It needs to be fixed.

What’s the point of perma-stealth if you do no damage at all? I’d actually love to fight 5 perma stealth thieves, oh yea get lord what now? I’ll be waiting for your 3k backstab while we’ve 3 points captured and when you appear get ready a burst that you can’t do.

I thought that you claimed perma stealth is impossible?

Columba.9730:

rylark.3418:

xiv.7136:

Just as an example.

Stonemist gets taken. A few mesmers die inside and don’t release.

A thief perma-stealths inside and cannot be found. Once people have left the area after doing several thorough sweeps, he resses the mesmers.

Squad waiting outside.

Portal.

Portal.

Kill Lord without even starting an alert.

Pretty much breaks the whole of WvW I think you will find.

Stealth like that has no place in the current game. It needs to be fixed.

What’s the point of perma-stealth if you do no damage at all? I’d actually love to fight 5 perma stealth thieves, oh yea get lord what now? I’ll be waiting for your 3k backstab while we’ve 3 points captured and when you appear get ready a burst that you can’t do.

I thought that you claimed perma stealth is impossible?

Congrats, I was wrong. Yet, I want to see you using that in tournaments. I can see your own team flamming you to death with such useless build.

rylark.3418:

Columba.9730:

rylark.3418:

xiv.7136:

Just as an example.

Stonemist gets taken. A few mesmers die inside and don’t release.

A thief perma-stealths inside and cannot be found. Once people have left the area after doing several thorough sweeps, he resses the mesmers.

Squad waiting outside.

Portal.

Portal.

Kill Lord without even starting an alert.

Pretty much breaks the whole of WvW I think you will find.

Stealth like that has no place in the current game. It needs to be fixed.

What’s the point of perma-stealth if you do no damage at all? I’d actually love to fight 5 perma stealth thieves, oh yea get lord what now? I’ll be waiting for your 3k backstab while we’ve 3 points captured and when you appear get ready a burst that you can’t do.

I thought that you claimed perma stealth is impossible?

Congrats, I was wrong. Yet, I want to see you using that in tournaments. I can see your own team flamming you to death with such useless build.

I am not discussing tournaments. I am discussion wvwvw where permastealth is completely imbalanced. If you’d like wvwvw to have the same nerfs for thieves as spvp, that’s fine by me, as long as they fix culling/stealth combos.

At least you can admit that permastealth is easily doable. with culling bugs, you don’t even have to give up much.

Columba.9730:

rylark.3418:

Columba.9730:

rylark.3418:

xiv.7136:

Just as an example.

Stonemist gets taken. A few mesmers die inside and don’t release.

A thief perma-stealths inside and cannot be found. Once people have left the area after doing several thorough sweeps, he resses the mesmers.

Squad waiting outside.

Portal.

Portal.

Kill Lord without even starting an alert.

Pretty much breaks the whole of WvW I think you will find.

Stealth like that has no place in the current game. It needs to be fixed.

What’s the point of perma-stealth if you do no damage at all? I’d actually love to fight 5 perma stealth thieves, oh yea get lord what now? I’ll be waiting for your 3k backstab while we’ve 3 points captured and when you appear get ready a burst that you can’t do.

I thought that you claimed perma stealth is impossible?

Congrats, I was wrong. Yet, I want to see you using that in tournaments. I can see your own team flamming you to death with such useless build.

I am not discussing tournaments. I am discussion wvwvw where permastealth is completely imbalanced. If you’d like wvwvw to have the same nerfs for thieves as spvp, that’s fine by me, as long as they fix culling/stealth combos.

At least you can admit that permastealth is easily doable. with culling bugs, you don’t even have to give up much.

How does Permastealth help you take keeps/camps?

I don’t see how’s perma stealth in the same spot useful on wvwvw, please explain.

What do you mean by fixing stealth combos? And yes, I already said that before, culling needs to be fixed due to lag issues.

i didn’t see him in the same spot, lol. Perma stealth is extremely helpful. enemies cannot target you, you can wear enemies down, rezz friends without ever being targetted. in taking camps, you can stay out of sight when enemies come, lol. if you can’t see how it’s useful, perhaps you should….l2p!

Or or, a guy with a brain can just stay in the blinding field and I wanna see you hearseeking to in now. Or spam AoE’s around the blinding field because it’s obvious you’re there, maybe you should l2p.

Columba.9730:

Panacea.4927:

Because some suddenly up popping smoke screens and black powders are totally not obvious…

actually not obvious or helpful. Any decent thief moves away from said smoke, and it’s not easy to see. they should make it as glaringly obvious as portals if not more obvious. Lol wth 1900 toughness and 3k armor, backstab hits me for 4500+. NO idea what you are referring to with 1.5k .

They can’t move away from it Columba… They have to heartseek through it three times to maintain perma stealth. As far as hiding in a castle/keep that’s kind of far stretched since we haven’t heard any complaints of that happening, only observations that it could happen. Even if it did, it will be blatantly obvious what the thief is doing when he’s popping black powder.

That would be your clue to target the black powder area with AOE and get close enough to screw up his heartseeker. Problem solved and since this build lacks DPS it’s easy to take them down.

So we’ve moved from perma stealth is impossible, to well it’s possible but it’s not useful? I am just trying to clarify the current disagreements.

Columba.9730:

So we’ve moved from perma stealth is impossible, to well it’s possible but it’s not useful? I am just trying to clarify the current disagreements.

I already told you that you proved me wrong, do you want a cookie? I said before, even if it’s possible you won’t do any damage.

yet we’ve seen thieves do plenty of damage doin gthat. so I don’t understand.

Columba.9730:

So we’ve moved from perma stealth is impossible, to well it’s possible but it’s not useful? I am just trying to clarify the current disagreements.

To clarify the current disagreements, I never said it was impossible just not useful. Since I posted it was possible, no one else has stated it is impossible. So let’s stick to the disagreement of it being impractical here and state your facts.

You stated decent thieves will move away from the smoke… That’s completely false as they have to heartseek through it three times to get any kind of perma stealth.

You stated they can “wear enemies down” How? by their enemies getting bored and tired of standing there watching the black powders pop up?

You say they can rez friends without being targeted. As I recall, It took the guy in the video about a full minute to stack up 10-11 seconds of stealth. That can be done in any build with any combination of SR, CnD, Blinding Powder. And if there is a corpse that’s being stealth rezd, the obvious thing to do is attack on the corpse since you know the thief is there.

You say “in taking camps, you can stay out of sight when enemies come” Duh, so can anyone else if they go far enough and wait. Do you think a thief is hiding right in the center of the camp or something? Not likely. And again, if they are close enough for the black powder to be spotted (and it is obvious) there’s your clue not to leave the camp unattended until you take him out.

rylark.3418:

Columba.9730:

So we’ve moved from perma stealth is impossible, to well it’s possible but it’s not useful? I am just trying to clarify the current disagreements.

I already told you that you proved me wrong, do you want a cookie? I said before, even if it’s possible you won’t do any damage.

LOL, yes, give him a QQ cookie with some troll sprinkles on top.

Lofat.2406:

Columba.9730:

So we’ve moved from perma stealth is impossible, to well it’s possible but it’s not useful? I am just trying to clarify the current disagreements.

To clarify the current disagreements, I never said it was impossible just not useful. Since I posted it was possible, no one else has stated it is impossible. So let’s stick to the disagreement of it being impractical here and state your facts.

You stated decent thieves will move away from the smoke… That’s completely false as they have to heartseek through it three times to get any kind of perma stealth.

You stated they can “wear enemies down” How? by their enemies getting bored and tired of standing there watching the black powders pop up?

You say they can rez friends without being targeted. As I recall, It took the guy in the video about a full minute to stack up 10-11 seconds of stealth. That can be done in any build with any combination of SR, CnD, Blinding Powder. And if there is a corpse that’s being stealth rezd, the obvious thing to do is attack on the corpse since you know the thief is there.

You say “in taking camps, you can stay out of sight when enemies come” Duh, so can anyone else if they go far enough and wait. Do you think a thief is hiding right in the center of the camp or something? Not likely. And again, if they are close enough for the black powder to be spotted (and it is obvious) there’s your clue not to leave the camp unattended until you take him out.

Agree with this good sir, lets wait for the QQ troll to come up with more fake arguments.

so if it’s not useful, then why are you arguing so much against changes to stealth, Lol?

Just look at his post history Rylark, pages of posts against thieves. He won’t be happy till thieves are nerfed beyond play, or eliminated from the game.

Columba.9730:

so if it’s not useful, then why are you arguing so much against changes to stealth, Lol?

Because maybe it would effect things that are useful?

Kind of like nerfing Dancing Dagger unintentionally nerfed S/D more then what it was intended to nerf.

Columba.9730:

so if it’s not useful, then why are you arguing so much against changes to stealth, Lol?

I’ve said several times in so many pages back that any changes to stealth right now will break the class xD, unless there’s a major revamp of every single part of the thief class. It would require a whole class rewrite if stealth was changed significantly as you wanted.

The only issue that can be clearly seen is the culling issue, but that is a general issue in WvW. In certain scenarios in WvW (maybe on 1v1 or lower population servers), thief’s culling from stealth is a minimal and is manageable, which shows that if culling isn’t covering the thief, the fights should be okay.

Columba.9730:

so if it’s not useful, then why are you arguing so much against changes to stealth, Lol?

Ironic how in your message history you’re the one crying for a change on stealth mechanic, I never said I want stealth to change.
Once again, get your facts straight son.