Guild Wars 2

Hrmh, I’d say that invisibility needs to drop when:

1) You’re burning. Seriously, you’re a human torch, How do you hide?
2) Someone hits you in melee. Obviously they feel their sword cutting through you, how are they unable to notice you?
3) Flash visible every time an AoE field hits you. Obviously your presence distrubs the field.
4.) You’re bleeding. You’re spouting blood everywhere, should give a good idea where you are.

Running in the middle of 20 or so players without nobody noticing shouldn’t be possible, especially if they’re dealing damage to you.

TundraQualle.8204:

Despina.6970:

Ask your self, what fun it is to play against a class you cannot see most of the time. I guess if other classes could do this you would whine a lot on the forums.

I don’t think so. Mostly none thief players are complaining about thieves. My main character is a thief and I don’t have not that much trouble to fight against them in hot join PvP or WvWvW.

Just get familiar with the thief – it helps to know your opponent and his dirty tricks.

Unfortunately, if two thieves were to play this build they would simply not be able to kill each others given they can just hide at any chosen time and heal up while in perma stealth. Further more, if you do not run a similar build that allows you to perma stealth, they can hit u for up to 6k with back stab fairly consistently. Especially with a 100% crit chance in stealth.

People that ask for a (another) Thieves nerf are the same people that plays GW2 from two weeks and have only one pg (or more than one, but not al level 80, lol).

i just want to tell you guys something.
i don’t care about your w3 or pvp, and that the thief is OP there etc.
however, when i get kicked from dungeon/fractal parties because of my class (too gimped/UP etc.), then it IS my problem
i have invested a lot of time, gold and ~8k+ gems to easly give up on my beloved thiefling

in PVE thief is not OP. and that’s a fact. (i have died a lot of times in stealth because my team mates (pugs) are noobs and attack boss while downed and break stealth…hello double kill)
and yeah, it seems that if i am the only one attacking the boss, and do a hide in shadows(3-4 sec stealth, healing skill), the boss instantly resets. so where is the OPness here….. uh ??

Zelulose.8695:

TundraQualle.8204:

Despina.6970:

Ask your self, what fun it is to play against a class you cannot see most of the time. I guess if other classes could do this you would whine a lot on the forums.

I don’t think so. Mostly none thief players are complaining about thieves. My main character is a thief and I don’t have not that much trouble to fight against them in hot join PvP or WvWvW.

Just get familiar with the thief – it helps to know your opponent and his dirty tricks.

Unfortunately, if two thieves were to play this build they would simply not be able to kill each others given they can just hide at any chosen time and heal up while in perma stealth. Further more, if you do not run a similar build that allows you to perma stealth, they can hit u for up to 6k with back stab fairly consistently. Especially with a 100% crit chance in stealth.

Only build that cannot kill each other is d/p condi thiefs. Becouse of high hp pool ( as for thief) and low dmg output + condi removal on stealth. Any other build will result in 1 thief geting killed, unless 1 thief decides to run.

Murashin.8295:

People that ask for a (another) Thieves nerf are the same people that plays GW2 from two weeks and have only one pg (or more than one, but not al level 80, lol).

Sorry, English isn’t my native. What is “pg”? That’s an abbreviation I’ve never seen before…

Also having difficult time understanding the phrase “plays _ from two weeks”, does that mean they’ve been playing from 2nd week after launch, or they’ve been playing for 2 weeks? Given the context, I’d guess it is the latter, but I’m just not sure. Sorry, it’s just that I’m a ‘foreigner’ and can’t understand all the slang phrases ect.

Dual, you are correct int hat they aren’t designed to be optimal without stealth, yet realistically p/p is the weakest weapon combination the thief has access to when you compare it to backstab damage.

Why not harang ANet to get rid of the requirement of stealth on the thief. If they got rid of every stealth (utility and weapon skill) got rid of the “steal” f1…and make stealth itself the f1 (after all, stealth is the unique mechanic, lets not kid ourselves here) this would stop alot of things. A single stealth skill, if it is on CD than you are obviously visible and have to defend yourself properly.

At the very least, as Fred Fargone has stated, burning/bleeding/aoe fields/melee attacks…if someone stealthed gets hit they should immediately lose stealth. You cannot stay hidden when an explosion of shrapnel lands next to you, it is impossible. No really, wear a camo net and set off a nailbomb 5 feet from you with no protection between you and the bomb. Crazy you say? Kinda my point. Thieves aren’t magical…they use no magic, thus stealth should follow a more realistic approach and not a magic one.

Karolis.4261:

Zelulose.8695:

TundraQualle.8204:

Despina.6970:

Ask your self, what fun it is to play against a class you cannot see most of the time. I guess if other classes could do this you would whine a lot on the forums.

I don’t think so. Mostly none thief players are complaining about thieves. My main character is a thief and I don’t have not that much trouble to fight against them in hot join PvP or WvWvW.

Just get familiar with the thief – it helps to know your opponent and his dirty tricks.

Unfortunately, if two thieves were to play this build they would simply not be able to kill each others given they can just hide at any chosen time and heal up while in perma stealth. Further more, if you do not run a similar build that allows you to perma stealth, they can hit u for up to 6k with back stab fairly consistently. Especially with a 100% crit chance in stealth.

Only build that cannot kill each other is d/p condi thiefs. Becouse of high hp pool ( as for thief) and low dmg output + condi removal on stealth. Any other build will result in 1 thief geting killed, unless 1 thief decides to run.

D/P condition? I think you mean P/D. D/P’s only damaging condition skill is a 2 second poison on the second strike in its combo. In my experience, P/D can’t kill anything that has good condition removal and recovery.

If stealth gets removed by burning/bleeding/aoe, you might as well let them perform their backstabs and stealth abilities without requiring stealth.

I can imagine that leading to spam backstabs and a whole bunch of other attacks thieves use stealth for….

Revealing stealth through any damage just wouldn’t work.

Anyways, in some of those videos, you got a thief there that’s full in the Shadow Arts tree. That spec gives you more stealth. Combine that with half berserker’s and PVT gear, it gives you the “bunker” thief.

He still hits hard, but that’s because he hits the squishies first. That goes the same for a lot of bunker builds though (if you’ve seen bunker eles with D/D, they can damage decently while avoiding damage). Thieves do have the advantage of being able to be stealthy, and the more players there are in the area, the easier it is for them to stealth and confuse the enemies.

Bunker thieves are pretty good in 1vMany Bad Players, but if you skilled in thief fights and fight a thief in a 1v1 situation or have a skilled glass cannon that strikes at the thief right at the moment they’re vulnerable, then it shouldn’t be an issue. In all these videos you keep showing, the people aren’t doing the right thing to counter the thief. They got no one waiting for the right moment to burst on that thief when he’s visible.

Kenshinakh, it is hard to “have someone waiting for when the thief is vulnerable” when culling keeps the thief invisible for an extra 8-10 seconds in larger situations…plenty of time for any stealtht o come off cooldown when you KNOW you can count on culling.

If culling cannot be fixed, than the thief skills must be changed to account for the effects of culling. The latest “fix” they tried has actually made it worse. I can actually predict when culling will happen now, essentially using a broken part of the game to my advantage. A part to the game that would be solved by pre-rendering long before you could see players.

This should be on the thief forums, not here. ((yep.))

Runiir,
I can see the issue with culling giving an extra 8-10s. But I play from mid-tier servers and culling for me at least has been 1-2s max. And if it’s a 1v1, .5-1s max. If any drastic change to stealth is done, it’s going to be a pain for thieves in situations where there isn’t culling or culling is minimal.

I rather see culling fixed before thief’s stealth being touched to compensate for those moments where culling gets abused for thieves in certain situations. It’s more of a culling issue then the stealth mechanic itself. I’ve even had entire zergs go poof in front of my eyes, so culling affects everyone, not just thieves using stealth+culling in zerg situations.

It’s funny how people exaggerate on these forums. If I were to believe some people that post here, 90% of toons running around in WvW are perma-stealth thieves.

All I play is WvW and professions are actually quite balanced from my experience. Warriors, guardians and eles are the most common class I run into. Then thieves, mesmers and rangers would be the next popular tier, followed by the slightly neglected necros and engis classes.

If I didn’t know any better, I’d say people love to exaggerate to try and make their opinions more relevant. Crazy I know.

you pr0 w3 and pvp players, should suck a candy, and leave the thief PVE community alone.
we are already sub par to classes like guardians/warriors/mesmers and even eles.

LOCO.1785:

It’s funny how people exaggerate on these forums. If I were to believe some people that post here, 90% of toons running around in WvW are perma-stealth thieves.

All I play is WvW and professions are actually quite balanced from my experience. Warriors, guardians and eles are the most common class I run into. Then thieves, mesmers and rangers would be the next popular tier, followed by the slightly neglected necros and engis classes.

If I didn’t know any better, I’d say people love to exaggerate to try and make their opinions more relevant. Crazy I know.

Then you sir are lucky as hell i run into them everywhere i go dont worry at the current route the thief is taking mechanic wise that may be all you see in the coming months be ready for it…..and great the thread has been moved to the thief safe haven and bashing part of the forums well come on thiefs defend your cause i got tons more videos and a lot more proof and logic

Shrilly.7184:

I i used to have the skill to kill anyone I was faced with. no mater how many times i knock them down or keep them on the ground they will just get back up and be in stealth for 10 sec+

So you want to be able to use CC on an thief, stun them , knock back, knock down, fear /daze , and if you kill them you are skilled. If they counter your CC… you want the counter skill removed.
I got your point

Despina.6970:

Everytime I face a thief, I think:

Is the damage to high?

Maybe. The damage alone seems fine to me, but taking all other abilities into account it seems to high. But what I realy hate is the fact, how easy a thief can achieve high damage. Just spam one ability without thinking about cooldowns. Or do moderate damage with a gap closer (hs) is a no brainer.

Is the mobility to high?

Slighly. Yes thief is squishy and needs abilites to get away, but the mobility with shortbow is not funny anymore. If the mobility would be limited on a horizontal plane it would be fine, but jumping up walls, ledges is lame.

Is the stealth ok?

Absolutely not. Yes thief is an assasin and needs stealth to set up his ambush. This is fine for me. But the fact that a thief can pop stealth almost everytime he wants is just stupid. Stealth is not a tactical tool anymore, but a spamable ability. Coupled with the fact, that thieves can heal and drop condition while in stealth is op. And to all thief players out there who think this is perfectly fine: Ask your self, what fun it is to play against a class you cannot see most of the time. I guess if other classes could do this you would whine a lot on the forums. I really can’t remember such a stupid implementation of stealth in any mmorpg game I played ( and I played alot, starting with DAOC beta). For me thief is the most stupid class design in the game.

It’s funny how opinions vary isn’t it?

Every time I face a thief, I think:

Is the damage too high?

No, it’s just right. The main meta I come across is the gimmicky glass cannon/burst build. They sacrifice all their defense to hit you with that one burst. Most people expect this when facing thieves, it’s also one reason I always carry a stun break (bulls rush+frenzy+100 blades combo is the other reason). I never lose to this fotm cookie cutter build, the result is usually a dead thief or if they get lucky they escape my grasp and run for their life. If they miss their burst, they’re toast, plain & simple.

Is the mobility too high?

Nope. Thief is squishy and needs abilites to get away. Jumping up walls, ledges is lame if it were possible and it sounds like you haven’t had much experience using this yourself. You can only get to elevated areas that your toon is capable of running up ie. you can’t run up walls.

Is the stealth ok?

Absolutely. It’s the thieves main source of offense/defense. Without stealth, thieves are sitting targets. They can trait for dodging, but that will only get you so far and would cut down even more on viable builds. Thieves already have the 3 sec revealed debuff after stealthing, so it’s not something they can keep spamming straight away. They’re also not unkillable gods when they enter stealth, they’re still just as weak as when they’re unstealthed, you just cannot see them. Either spam the area with AoE or do what I do and auto attack where you think they are, I can tell I’m hitting the thief when my auto attack combo registers. It really is not rocket science… If a thief pops shadow refuge, guess where you will find him, that’s right within the refuge radius. If a thief hits you with C&D it’s a safe bet he will also go for a backstab.

Culling is an issue currently, but this is no cause to nerf the thief unjustly.

In most cases, these complaints are just L2P issues. Sorry if that hurts anyones egos, but that’s what it comes down to.

Haha they don’t balance this game around your skill level OP. Sorry to break it to you but top skilled players of every prof have zero issues with Thieves. If you have a problem you you are just a bad in the chorus of zergling bads who QQ every day. Here is a hint about tbis game. It’s not a traditional MMO where you play only one class forever. I play a Thief but also other profs. I have no issues with Theives on any prof because I played one to 80 and know every build and utility down pat. Your problem ia the definition of a L2P issue. You just refuse to get better.

vespers.1759:

you mean you don’t think this is balanced? HOW DARE YOU?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7OYniHrGqE

An thief killing other thieves and low lvls.
Hi , do i miss any point ?
did he even atempted to kill an lvl 80 guardian /elementarist /engenier /warrior /necro /mesmer … with double food buff, like he used ?
would he even had an chance?
How dare you

Rayya.2591:

vespers.1759:

you mean you don’t think this is balanced? HOW DARE YOU?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7OYniHrGqE

An thief killing other thieves and low lvls.
Hi , do i miss any point ?
did he even atempted to kill an lvl 80 guardian /elementarist /engenier /warrior /necro /mesmer … with double food buff, like he used ?
would he even had an chance?
How dare you

get off my thrwead unless you are going to see other evidence

Shrilly.7184:

Rayya.2591:

vespers.1759:

you mean you don’t think this is balanced? HOW DARE YOU?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7OYniHrGqE

An thief killing other thieves and low lvls.
Hi , do i miss any point ?
did he even atempted to kill an lvl 80 guardian /elementarist /engenier /warrior /necro /mesmer … with double food buff, like he used ?
would he even had an chance?
How dare you

get off my thrwead unless you are going to see other evidence

I am sorry that not everybody share same point with you.
And please stay on topic, is related to thieves issues.
Stealth is an defence mechanism

Shrilly.7184:

Rayya.2591:

vespers.1759:

you mean you don’t think this is balanced? HOW DARE YOU?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7OYniHrGqE

An thief killing other thieves and low lvls.
Hi , do i miss any point ?
did he even atempted to kill an lvl 80 guardian /elementarist /engenier /warrior /necro /mesmer … with double food buff, like he used ?
would he even had an chance?
How dare you

get off my thrwead unless you are going to see other evidence

By all means. Show whatever vid you like. It’ll just get picked apart. (Looks like you’re thread has been merged)

Yep now we get to get bashed by the thieves the elaborate plan by anet well if you dont see video evicence as evidence and want to keep making excuses then go ahead im done here i know the truth ive seen so much proof and evidence its kitten anet wont do kitten so i guess its just the waiting game until FF-arr BLESS or some other title. only time will tell

I gave you a lot of counter and counter proof that the video “evidence” is very skewed in favor of showing off a thief.

The only issue right now is culling, and that’s a hit and miss depending on the server you’re on, your hardware, and the fight encounters.

What else do you want? Delete the thief class? Just wait for Anet to fix the culling issues for large scale fights. It affects everyone, not thieves only, so don’t make crazy suggestions to change stealth when those videos just show a thief using culling.

Shrilly… If you start a fire, you better be prepared to deal with the flames. This is no longer “your” thread. If you expect people to take you seriously considering the way you’ve approached this, it’s not likely going to happen now. On the other hand, if you want a real discussion about legitimate ways to handle your problems with thieves, you’ve already gone about it in the wrong way. Don’t pass judgement on everyone’s input that differs from yours, it just makes you sound ignorant of the whole situation.

Lofat.2406:

Shrilly… If you start a fire, you better be prepared to deal with the flames. This is no longer “your” thread. If you expect people to take you seriously considering the way you’ve approached this, it’s not likely going to happen now. On the other hand, if you want a real discussion about legitimate ways to handle your problems with thieves, you’ve already gone about it in the wrong way. Don’t pass judgement on everyone’s input that differs from yours, it just makes you sound ignorant of the whole situation.

I love this so much it was my thread and i wanted anet to see it not pro thiefs make comments on it where i had to rationalize with HARD PROOF theres a human thief that stays stealth the whole time there are countless videos of thieves taking on whole zergs i pass judgement on the wrong views sir like yours which is bent in biased and unrational thinking. think about the other classes that have to deal with your bs and as previously stated i dont give a kitten what you think. who the kitten are you? another thief in the bucket. the thread has come to the doorstep of the thief capital pulled down its pants and grabbed its ankles so the thread is now useless.

we should be getting a patch tomorrow or tuesday, odds on nerf or buff are probably in favor of buff.

Stop chasing the thief I am not reading any of these complaints your all chasing thieves and distracted go do something productive. It doesn’t matter that you can’t kill him 1v1 cause WvW isnt about 1v1 or 1v2 or 1v3.

Shrilly.7184:

Lofat.2406:

Shrilly… If you start a fire, you better be prepared to deal with the flames. This is no longer “your” thread. If you expect people to take you seriously considering the way you’ve approached this, it’s not likely going to happen now. On the other hand, if you want a real discussion about legitimate ways to handle your problems with thieves, you’ve already gone about it in the wrong way. Don’t pass judgement on everyone’s input that differs from yours, it just makes you sound ignorant of the whole situation.

I love this so much it was my thread and i wanted anet to see it not pro thiefs make comments on it where i had to rationalize with HARD PROOF theres a human thief that stays stealth the whole time there are countless videos of thieves taking on whole zergs i pass judgement on the wrong views sir like yours which is bent in biased and unrational thinking. think about the other classes that have to deal with your bs and as previously stated i dont give a kitten what you think. who the kitten are you? another thief in the bucket. the thread has come to the doorstep of the thief capital pulled down its pants and grabbed its ankles so the thread is now useless.

You’re a great example of what inexperience brings to the forum when trying to voice your opinion in such a domineering way.

skupuz.6940:

Agree with you.

They need to tone down the following traits.

Infusion of shadow – Reduce to 1 init regen instead of 2
Infitrator Signat – Init regen remove and replace
Quick recovery – Remove and replace
Patience – Remove and replace
Quick Pockets – Remove and replace
Hastened Replenishment – Remove and replace
Kleptomaniac – Remove and replace

I didn’t touch preparedness as it gives us roughly 20-25% more resources which is in line with cool down decrease that other classes have.

Initiative allows use to spam abilities. We pick and chose which attack to use within the constraint of the overall init pool. When we have too much of it or the init regen is out of control, it is unbalance. When other classes can only achieves 20-25% reduction in CD, it think it is safe to say a 50-75% recharge rate on init is too much. We shouldn’t be able to have our cake and eat it too…

You can’t compare thieves abilities to other classes straight up like that. Do other classes have it were 1 weapon set has abilities on cd and it affects the other set? No.

If I blow all my ini on bow and switch to d/d pretty much all of that is in effect on cooldown. Also the abilities that other classes have don’t compare to what thieves have if you compare cooldown abilites to thieves weapon abilities. If all the D/D weaponset abilities acted like other classes on cooldown nobody in there right mind would play a thief because none of those abilities if you tied a cooldown to them is worth it at all. That is why you can’t just straight up compare thieves abilities to other classes.

Another note is that interrupts and knock backs effect your ini basically wasting it.

Shrilly.7184:

I love this so much it was my thread and i wanted anet to see it not pro thiefs make comments on it where i had to rationalize with HARD PROOF theres a human thief that stays stealth the whole time there are countless videos of thieves taking on whole zergs i pass judgement on the wrong views sir like yours which is bent in biased and unrational thinking. think about the other classes that have to deal with your bs and as previously stated i dont give a kitten what you think. who the kitten are you? another thief in the bucket. the thread has come to the doorstep of the thief capital pulled down its pants and grabbed its ankles so the thread is now useless.

So basically you’re saying you’re right and everyone else is wrong, end of discussion. Your hard proof is a one off situation where a bunch of bads did not know how to deal with a thief, when I myself can deal with a thief all on my own. I must be OP.

It’s you who in fact adds nothing constructive to the discussion. You call others biased and irrational, look in the mirror. You ask another poster who he is, well who the hell are you? His opinion is as relevant as anyone else here, but since you’ve given up in the discussion, we’ll just assume your claims have been proven wrong and your argument defeated.

Thanks for stopping by.

I would like to present into evidence this fine piece of work just posted on reddit by this Warrior a whole video dedicated to roaming vs multiple opponents I don’t alot about warriors but dat damage o.O.

inb4 you can dodge (yea bads blow everything at the beginning, thinking people make you waste dodges)

Reading through all these posts 1 thing keeps reoccuring and that is culling. Everyone that says a thief can perma stealth are people that have an issue with culling. All stealth skills lasts for 3s (4s if u trait for it). As for the video proof, if u havent noticed he went stealth so fast because he CnD and didnt attack anyone, then timed for his next CnD right when his stealth ends.
Also for the people that complain about about the initiative regen skills and traits, you forget that the traits that gives us initiative regen are the ones that don’t give us dmg. Grabbing a initiative regen skill means we lose 1 skill slot.

I know everyone is thinking it so i’mma just say it. Shrilly you sound like a douchbag and i dont care if you’re offended by it.

“I love this so much it was my thread and i wanted anet to see it not pro thiefs make comments on it where i had to rationalize with HARD PROOF theres a human thief that stays stealth the whole time "

If you wanted to let ANet know without people criticising you, then send an email instead of making a thread fool. God kitten it ignorant child. This is a forum, it is a place where people ask questions, share ideas and comment on said ideas. The minute u created the thread you should’ve realized “you know what everyone is going to see this, not just ANet, so i should probably expect people that don’t share my views to argue with me.”
I’ve already addressed how the thief is going into stealth so many times, but since i do main a thief i immediately looked at his health. Why? Because i can get a decent read on his armor/weapon build as well as how he spec’d his traits. Since he has over 10k hp you can pretty much assume he isn’t running GC so his dmg won’t be at maximum dmg. Also did you notice how he refrained from fighting anyone head on? You know why? Because thieves can’t trade blow for blow, we’ll commit to a fight if we have the element of surprise on our side.

Rokusho.4950:

Reading through all these posts 1 thing keeps reoccuring and that is culling. Everyone that says a thief can perma stealth are people that have an issue with culling. All stealth skills lasts for 3s (4s if u trait for it). As for the video proof, if u havent noticed he went stealth so fast because he CnD and didnt attack anyone, then timed for his next CnD right when his stealth ends.
Also for the people that complain about about the initiative regen skills and traits, you forget that the traits that gives us initiative regen are the ones that don’t give us dmg. Grabbing a initiative regen skill means we lose 1 skill slot.

I know everyone is thinking it so i’mma just say it. Shrilly you sound like a douchbag and i dont care if you’re offended by it.

“I love this so much it was my thread and i wanted anet to see it not pro thiefs make comments on it where i had to rationalize with HARD PROOF theres a human thief that stays stealth the whole time "

If you wanted to let ANet know without people criticising you, then send an email instead of making a thread fool. God kitten it ignorant child. This is a forum, it is a place where people ask questions, share ideas and comment on said ideas. The minute u created the thread you should’ve realized “you know what everyone is going to see this, not just ANet, so i should probably expect people that don’t share my views to argue with me.”
I’ve already addressed how the thief is going into stealth so many times, but since i do main a thief i immediately looked at his health. Why? Because i can get a decent read on his armor/weapon build as well as how he spec’d his traits. Since he has over 10k hp you can pretty much assume he isn’t running GC so his dmg won’t be at maximum dmg. Also did you notice how he refrained from fighting anyone head on? You know why? Because thieves can’t trade blow for blow, we’ll commit to a fight if we have the element of surprise on our side.

I had sent a email replying that this belonged in the threads in suggestive god ignorant people today not enough of them is there this is the last time i will be posting in this thread as stated there is not more i can do as all mostly thieves come to this category of the forums and wont see reason to what is happening and there is no use in arguing with someone like that who are pro anything because you wont win.

Shrilly.7184:

this is the last time i will be posting in this thread

This is cause for celebration. /cheer

u still dont get it do you? “I had sent a email replying that this belonged in the threads in suggestive.” I swear it’s like you don’t even know what the word ignorant even means. I didn’t say “email ANet and have them move/remove the thread.” I said if u don’t want other players to criticise than email the problem to ANet instead of posting a thread.
Fool idk if ur actually dumb or pretending to be dumb, actually i lie, since i know u are dumb. Why? Because putting this in suggestive is fricken kitten Why you ask? Because suggestive is for the misc changes that don’t have to do with classes. Why the hell do u think there’s a category for each class? It’s so ppl can post stuff about how OP or UP that class is. Posting a thread about how thieves are OP in a Thieves category will attract people that give a crap about thieves. Both ppl that support a nerf and ppl the support leaving it as is (also people that think they should be buff’d but they kinda whack too).

By all means leave and take your broken english with you too because although most people don’t use proper spelling on the net at least they have adequate grammar. You child have neither the grammar to make yourself coherent or the level of intelligence to prove your point. So either GTFO, stay and complain in the 4yr old way that you’ve been doing or grow the hell up and argue like someone who has decent level of intelligence.

Fred Fargone.3127:

Hrmh, I’d say that invisibility needs to drop when:

1) You’re burning. Seriously, you’re a human torch, How do you hide?
2) Someone hits you in melee. Obviously they feel their sword cutting through you, how are they unable to notice you?
3) Flash visible every time an AoE field hits you. Obviously your presence distrubs the field.
4.) You’re bleeding. You’re spouting blood everywhere, should give a good idea where you are.

Running in the middle of 20 or so players without nobody noticing shouldn’t be possible, especially if they’re dealing damage to you.

1) You dont hide, your already INVISIBLE via MAGIC
2)They do feel the hit, thats why AA chains advance to the next attack, they dont see you because you are INVISIBLE via MAGIC
3)see 1
4)Your blood, as the rest of your body and possessions, is INVISIBLE

Runiir.6425:

Thieves aren’t magical…they use no magic, thus stealth should follow a more realistic approach and not a magic one.

100% wrong. Thieves as descendents of the GW assassin, are users of denial magic
You point out the physical flaws in thieves ‘hiding’ but ignore the fact that we literally step through shadows to TELEPORT. How is that not magic? Go read some lore on the GW wiki about the bloodstone and splitting of magic in Tyria

Rokusho.4950:

u still dont get it do you? “I had sent a email replying that this belonged in the threads in suggestive.” I swear it’s like you don’t even know what the word ignorant even means. I didn’t say “email ANet and have them move/remove the thread.” I said if u don’t want other players to criticise than email the problem to ANet instead of posting a thread.
Fool idk if ur actually dumb or pretending to be dumb, actually i lie, since i know u are dumb. Why? Because putting this in suggestive is fricken kitten Why you ask? Because suggestive is for the misc changes that don’t have to do with classes. Why the hell do u think there’s a category for each class? It’s so ppl can post stuff about how OP or UP that class is. Posting a thread about how thieves are OP in a Thieves category will attract people that give a crap about thieves. Both ppl that support a nerf and ppl the support leaving it as is (also people that think they should be buff’d but they kinda whack too).

By all means leave and take your broken english with you too because although most people don’t use proper spelling on the net at least they have adequate grammar. You child have neither the grammar to make yourself coherent or the level of intelligence to prove your point. So either GTFO, stay and complain in the 4yr old way that you’ve been doing or grow the hell up and argue like someone who has decent level of intelligence.

You know what ill come back for this one before I go cause this guy really is stupid I emailed them telling them my problems etc. They said that do not email that to them post it in suggestive and someone will look at it… God your so kittening kitten your really going to insult my intelegence? Go suck an exhaust pipe atleast act civil on the forums I hope you don’t go around talking like that. All my opinions were backed with substance so stfu. And since common knowlege doesn’t come naturally to you there will be more thieves in thief category than any other class you can see I got more of both sides in suggestion and now all I am getting is pro thief your welcome for pointing that out oh smart one.

Simple fixes:

1.Any damage to a stealthed opponents: reveals the stealthed person..just like every other mmorpg that was, is and ever will be.

2.Any action performed during stealth breaks it.

3. Stealthing of any sort should cause initiative usage. Enough to prevent restealthing over and over. This isn’t thief wars or hide-and-go-seek.

Or

Introduce cooldowns on stealth in general..no need to stealth 4 times in a fight instantly with only one stealth ability using initiative..dagger off hand thief: can spec into stealth upon stealing, can stealth when healing, can group stealth and can dagger 5 to stealth. Only dagger 5 in this situation uses initiative..and it can be used twice in a row.. kinda silly, really..

4.Bow 5 and sword 2 -and its equivalent- should have high initiate usage with a short range for sword 2 maximum 1200 range. Its time that the thief class should stay and pay the price if it messes up like every other class – eles excluded..their escapes are just too silly as well if anyone ran into a half decent ele -

Or simply..introduce cooldowns on the abilities like Aaaaaall the other classes in the game?

There are -presumably- more than two people doing the balancing as eluded to previously. SEVEN months have passed with the most pressing class imbalance being thieves as noted by 64k reads to this thread and 60+ pages of replies and still nothing has been done.

We’ve reached a point of heavy customer dissatisfaction and the slow reaction to balancing the thief is an indicative of things to come, unfortunately. The players patience is not infinite and with new MMOs looming in the horizon, time is running short.

DanH.5879:

i just want to tell you guys something.
i don’t care about your w3 or pvp, and that the thief is OP there etc.
however, when i get kicked from dungeon/fractal parties because of my class (too gimped/UP etc.), then it IS my problem
i have invested a lot of time, gold and ~8k+ gems to easly give up on my beloved thiefling

in PVE thief is not OP. and that’s a fact. (i have died a lot of times in stealth because my team mates (pugs) are noobs and attack boss while downed and break stealth…hello double kill)
and yeah, it seems that if i am the only one attacking the boss, and do a hide in shadows(3-4 sec stealth, healing skill), the boss instantly resets. so where is the OPness here….. uh ??

DanH.5879:

you pr0 w3 and pvp players, should suck a candy, and leave the thief PVE community alone.
we are already sub par to classes like guardians/warriors/mesmers and even eles.

in case someone didn’t read

i swear, you guys are like the chick who recorded a video about an encounter with a thief
this conversation is with a fellow party friend:
“you saw that? he teleported ! he must be cheating! now, we have enough proof”

Rayya.2591:

vespers.1759:

you mean you don’t think this is balanced? HOW DARE YOU?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7OYniHrGqE

An thief killing other thieves and low lvls.
Hi , do i miss any point ?
did he even atempted to kill an lvl 80 guardian /elementarist /engenier /warrior /necro /mesmer … with double food buff, like he used ?
would he even had an chance?
How dare you

This. All the qq about thief destroying entire zergs. We shine at killing upleveled and clueless gc inside a busy zerg. If target dont go down in couple of backstabs, I just leave him and pick other.

Dual.8953:

Karolis.4261:

Zelulose.8695:

TundraQualle.8204:

Despina.6970:

Ask your self, what fun it is to play against a class you cannot see most of the time. I guess if other classes could do this you would whine a lot on the forums.

I don’t think so. Mostly none thief players are complaining about thieves. My main character is a thief and I don’t have not that much trouble to fight against them in hot join PvP or WvWvW.

Just get familiar with the thief – it helps to know your opponent and his dirty tricks.

Unfortunately, if two thieves were to play this build they would simply not be able to kill each others given they can just hide at any chosen time and heal up while in perma stealth. Further more, if you do not run a similar build that allows you to perma stealth, they can hit u for up to 6k with back stab fairly consistently. Especially with a 100% crit chance in stealth.

Only build that cannot kill each other is d/p condi thiefs. Becouse of high hp pool ( as for thief) and low dmg output + condi removal on stealth. Any other build will result in 1 thief geting killed, unless 1 thief decides to run.

D/P condition? I think you mean P/D. D/P’s only damaging condition skill is a 2 second poison on the second strike in its combo. In my experience, P/D can’t kill anything that has good condition removal and recovery.

Im sorry, yes I mean P/D. Im a bit braindamaged .

ROFL, this thread still going on… Any meaningful feedback ceased around page 6, however it’s true that this keeps the air fresh in the the thief sub-forum… Anyway, I’m bored enough to waste 2 or 3 minutes…

XII.9401:

Simple fixes:

1.Any damage to a stealthed opponents: reveals the stealthed person..just like every other mmorpg that was, is and ever will be.

It was like this in the betas, and stealth were next to useless… That’s why it’s like now. However, give thieves a 65% passive evasion/dodge for all attacks, just like in every other mmorpg that was, is and ever will be, and sure, you can take their stealth in combat.

Hint: GW2 is not like every other mmorpg that was, is and ever will be.

XII.9401:

2.Any action performed during stealth breaks it.

Not sure what you mean with this, but in-game already is like that. However, since you are interested in comparisons with other mmorpgs, stealth clases on those also have actions (even attacks!) that can be performed in stealth without breaking it.

XII.9401:

3. Stealthing of any sort should cause initiative usage. Enough to prevent restealthing over and over. This isn’t thief wars or hide-and-go-seek.

Any stealthing already causes initiative usage or has a cooldown.

Your knowledge about the class seems lacking, at best. Have you ever played a thief?

the ONLY thing i see in all the videos you post, is culling abuse. period.
for wvw the “reveled” debuff should last ~10 seconds, and all will be happy….or not ?

pr0 tip for the programers: make the thieves in w3 to be retained in the cache of the clients; what players see: the model&skins of them. (not the coordinates)
when stealth ends, the client will render the thief again from it’s cache with the new coordinates from server with the info stealth ended. simple as pie. the end of culling.
clear the cache of the clients when the thief X is no longer on screen and not used stealth for more than…2-3-4 minutes.
FIFO list (first in (thief stealths), first in list (out))- the first enemy thief to use stealth skill is last in cache, the 2nd thief that use stealth at time t+1 (thief 1 remaining in stealth) is moved last, and thief 1 moves to 1st position in cache.
and because friendly thieves are not subject to our problem, they may be ignored by this list.

server send message thief ID 23459 is out of stealth, and the clients should render it from their cache (if not present already in the cache, load from server) using the coordinates x/y/z (then put on clients cache updated skins/models if something changed)
i am very sure the clients can search for a specific char ID in the cache list relatively fast (1-30 objects),
assuming we don’t have we don’t have 100 thieves vs 100 thieves, but even here, the method is still good.
you are welcome.

So there are three places each class has to be evaluated in, PvE, sPvP, and WvW.

In WvW there are two types of fighting, zerg and non-zerg.

In zerg fights, Thieves are not as effective as Guardians, etc. as the mass amount of random damage can be difficult to avoid. A few stray hits and the thief is downed.

However, when it comes to non-zerg fights, Thieves are king. Why is this? High mobility and stealth allow them to pick and choose their fights. Stealth and culling issues allow good thieves to be visible for roughly 1 second before they can restealth and this is spammable.

In PvE, I honestly hate having most Thieves in a dungeon group. I think this is in part due to the class but also in part due to the people that play the class. Since you can’t burst most enemies down in dungeons but they can burst you down, the common Thief gameplay of “just do big damage” is often a massive failure. Rather than taking smoke screen to block enemy projectiles, traps for CC, etc., the simply try to do big damage and go down often.

Those who try to do range complain that they don’t do nearly as much damage. I’m not sure how warranted this is since I don’t play my own Thief in dungeons, but I often do less damage in dungeons as well (except CoF p1) as in most I change my gear, spec, etc. to be more survivable and provide more control over fights.

In sPvP, Thieves are able to stealth and kill very well. The culling and stealth issue is not a problem here, but Thieves are able to weave in and out of stealth effectively to get kills. However, we don’t commonly (compared to Ele/Guardian) see Thieves used by the successful sPvP tournament teams due to the thief’s dependence on stealth and the fact that you can’t contest points while stealthed and the fact that the Elementalist is currently such an obvious choice for roamer due to their ability to pack damage, survivability, mobility, and support into a single powerful build that ArenaNet has mentioned is “a bit much”.

So we have the Thief outperforming in WvW but we have them outclassed by Elementalist in sPvP and either underperforming or being played poorly in PvE.

This creates an issue as a simple nerf to “fix” WvW could make PvE and sPvP worse. A buff to PvE or sPvP would make WvW even worse. Making a class’ s abilities work differently in different parts of a game is “less fun” as you’re no longer the same class in each and it can cause problems further down the road with maintaining the game due to the two separate rulesets for class abilities.

Two obvious fixes are to tone down the Elementalist in sPvP so that Thieves are a competitive choice for roamer and fix the culling so that WvW doesn’t have the stealth + culling issue.

Beyond those fixes, I don’t think it would hurt for the Thief class to move away from being so dependent on stealth and instead be given something to compensate for actually being visible in WvW … or perhaps new builds will spawn to adapt to the need as has happened with other classes.

vespers.1759:

you mean you don’t think this is balanced? HOW DARE YOU?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7OYniHrGqE

LOL, I watched the first 30 – 45 seconds and closed it. A thief sure looks OP when fighting clueless wvw zergers who are not even trying to fight back / heal. “Oh a thief backstabbed me! Now he’s DPSing me! Better keep running and not even pop mah heal, maybe he’ll just get bored and run off.”

Are you guys seriously afraid of fighting these kinds of thieves?

@XII: Saying all stealth should drop on damage is like saying all Protection Boons and invulnerability should become Aegis. And that Aegis should lose its block.

XII.9401:

[…]

1. I would not go as far as revealing them with any damage, but I would make it so conditions make them partially visible (the “predator-like” shader effect) and to make visible the condition visual effects themselves too, without damage numbers. You’ll see the silhouette burning, or getting the confusion ticks, or the blindness blur, or the silhouette green when they are poisoned. To compensate, increase slightly duration of stealths and give them a bit more condition removal. Just a bit.
The exception could be unblockable ground AoE effects like traited marks, mines and traps. They would reveal thieves when they trigger them, conditions or not.
2. I would not go as far as all actions, but any action that directly affects any creature other than allies. Things like attempting to finish a foe, shadowstepping to a foe, or applying a condition with a skill that deals no damage would reveal them, but things like one of their trap springing, a summoned thief attacking, reviving allies, using a healing skill or activating a poison skill would not.
3. I would go as far as giving them a “Cloak” F2 skill they can activate to get a version of stealth (let’s call it “cloaking” in this example) that consumes initiative at a rate higher than it’s recovered (even when traited to recover faster), while making their other stealths more restrictive and focused more on things like removing conditions and breaking aggro, or stopping targeted attacks before they activate, than on keeping stealth on.
If they lose all initiative while ‘cloaking’, they get Revealed for 10 seconds, so they must avoid that at all costs.
I would also make it so the Patience trait reduces consumed initiative while cloaking, as long as they are immobile and out of combat, so they can hide in WvW keeps and we end up getting things like people sticking around to protect the keep and looking for hiding sp… er.. I mean… thieves with AoEs that cause conditions that would reveal them (like an engineer with a flamethrower or a ranger with traps), and they trying to avoid those AoEs while moving as little as possible so they don’t run out of initiative and end up revealed anyways.

I would also increase a bit revealed time by giving extra time based on damage. The more damage a hit does, the more people focus on them as a threat, and the harder it gets for them to hide again.

XII.9401:

Simple fixes:

1.Any damage to a stealthed opponents: reveals the stealthed person..just like every other mmorpg that was, is and ever will be.

2.Any action performed during stealth breaks it.

3. Stealthing of any sort should cause initiative usage. Enough to prevent restealthing over and over. This isn’t thief wars or hide-and-go-seek.

Or

Introduce cooldowns on stealth in general..no need to stealth 4 times in a fight instantly with only one stealth ability using initiative..dagger off hand thief: can spec into stealth upon stealing, can stealth when healing, can group stealth and can dagger 5 to stealth. Only dagger 5 in this situation uses initiative..and it can be used twice in a row.. kinda silly, really..

4.Bow 5 and sword 2 -and its equivalent- should have high initiate usage with a short range for sword 2 maximum 1200 range. Its time that the thief class should stay and pay the price if it messes up like every other class – eles excluded..their escapes are just too silly as well if anyone ran into a half decent ele -

Or simply..introduce cooldowns on the abilities like Aaaaaall the other classes in the game?

There are -presumably- more than two people doing the balancing as eluded to previously. SEVEN months have passed with the most pressing class imbalance being thieves as noted by 64k reads to this thread and 60+ pages of replies and still nothing has been done.

We’ve reached a point of heavy customer dissatisfaction and the slow reaction to balancing the thief is an indicative of things to come, unfortunately. The players patience is not infinite and with new MMOs looming in the horizon, time is running short.

You mention adding cooldowns to stealth skills, then bring up 4 stealth skills that ALREADY have cooldowns. Cnd uses half of base thief initiative, how about when other classes use their number 5 skill an ENTIRE weapon set goes on cooldown, thats what thieves pay to use CnD.

Shortbow 5 and Sword 2, you would like to cost alot of init, and have a max range of 1200? do you realize shortbow 5 cost HALF our init, and has 900 range, sword 2 which costs less has 600 range for the initial use.

Seems like everything you want is already implemented, 4 of 5 skills already have cooldowns, and teleport range is LESS than your maximum PLUS costing massive init.

XII.9401:

Simple fixes:

1.Any damage to a stealthed opponents: reveals the stealthed person..just like every other mmorpg that was, is and ever will be.

2.Any action performed during stealth breaks it.

3. Stealthing of any sort should cause initiative usage. Enough to prevent restealthing over and over. This isn’t thief wars or hide-and-go-seek.

Or

Introduce cooldowns on stealth in general..no need to stealth 4 times in a fight instantly with only one stealth ability using initiative..dagger off hand thief: can spec into stealth upon stealing, can stealth when healing, can group stealth and can dagger 5 to stealth. Only dagger 5 in this situation uses initiative..and it can be used twice in a row.. kinda silly, really..

4.Bow 5 and sword 2 -and its equivalent- should have high initiate usage with a short range for sword 2 maximum 1200 range. Its time that the thief class should stay and pay the price if it messes up like every other class – eles excluded..their escapes are just too silly as well if anyone ran into a half decent ele -

Or simply..introduce cooldowns on the abilities like Aaaaaall the other classes in the game?

There are -presumably- more than two people doing the balancing as eluded to previously. SEVEN months have passed with the most pressing class imbalance being thieves as noted by 64k reads to this thread and 60+ pages of replies and still nothing has been done.

We’ve reached a point of heavy customer dissatisfaction and the slow reaction to balancing the thief is an indicative of things to come, unfortunately. The players patience is not infinite and with new MMOs looming in the horizon, time is running short.

backstab
sneak attack
surpise shot
all are attacks from stealth – so if an Pro kid spam aoe/autoattacks near him i will never be able to backstab him cause damage break stealth.
i like your ideea
you should add: thief clas will be /deleted

Thats a good idea, if they remove “Revealed” and make Initiative Recharge rate 0.33 seconds per Initiative.

Thieves suffer more then any other class if they mess up, if they miss Cloak and Dagger for example, they must wait till its full again to use it. – They waste 6 Initiative, they don’t stealth, and they lose the attack opportunity.