Guild Wars 2

LoreChief.8391:

I would like to see LoS skills like ‘steal’ function properly up walls and such. There are skills that pull enemies down walls, and this is possibly /the/ one skill that should allow you to hop up a wall.

I am extremely against this suggestion. I remember DAoC when they gave rogue types the ability to climb walls. It completely changed how keep defense and sieges worked. It made defending a keep as an underdog so much less fun. It posed little risk for the rogue really as they could just jump off and stealth when things got bad. This is a change on a level that would be no coming back from. Everyone who doesn’t play thief would be like QQ lame, and thieves would be like YAY this is awesome.

Sorry, and thief is not boring to play even in siege situation.

Honestly, the top of my thief wishlist is now this:

A series of official videos, from Anet, explaining some of the nuances of PvP from the different class’ perspective. Maybe take some of the top tournament games and add some commentary and slo-mo replays.

There’s always room for balance changes in a complicated game like this. But I don’t think the community’s feedback is going to be very truly useful — besides a few obvious things like “Fix culling!” — without a wider understanding of what “ideal” play looks like. For every class.

Caelib.2497:

Remove the ability for Theives to perma-stealth. In fact, I recommend limiting the Theif’s ability to stealth during combat to be on a 120 second cooldown.

Why not just give them dual feather dusters for weapons and make all their armor look like tutus?

Codata.2019:

Thank you for nerfing Mug. Now we have a useless F1 ability. Whats next? Stealth? Or deleting the whole Profession? Surprise us ANet!

Post from the future?

If Nerf Mug, they can reduce a cooldown f1.
35 sec coldown without trait – it would be nice.

They nerfed Mug?

Aratoa.7398:

Spiders Spiders Spiders.8043:

I have a good idea what we will be getting next: Auto-attack damage reduced by 50%. Think of it. It makes sense given the arbitrary sledgehammer approach to this class, and it would stop making other damage skills look bad in comparison.

Oh man, could you imagine? That’d just put thieves into NEEDING to play as stealther backstab builds in order to kill. My wonderful S/D build would be actually nerfed into uselessness.

Naaaa that would never happen. Why would they nerf s/d into uselessness and non glass burst damage into further uselessness pidgeonholing the class?

Oh wait.

fix thiefs the perma stealth is overpowering specially since it removes conditions and regens with traits. not only that but the fact they have massive damage with it they are currently the highest damage class followed by mesmers thanks to their illusions and stealths as well wich kills the targetting. also the class is called THIEF not ASSASIN or NINJA or SHADOW, they all are diferent things being sneaky and agile is one thing and being a ghost is another.

Well, just to resume: Dagger Thief damage is ridiculous and we are fragile as a feather.

If you guys could just see (and fix it)…

GCapris.7362:

Well, just to resume: Dagger Thief damage is ridiculous and we are fragile as a feather.

If you guys could just see (and fix it)…

What do you want fixed exactly?

high damage, low survivability seems balanced to me.

Can some1 explain me why ppls think thief is op cause I rly don’t get it.

1. My memser kill them easy trolling around with clones no matter what build he is backstabber or pistol whisp or pistols or what ever (lot of tou)

2. My bunker engi laugh a lot too even if 2 thiefs jump on me reflect kill them when I do nothing just tank (lot of tou and hp)

3. My guardian loling around too cause they can’t do NOTHING to him, guardian just over heal their dmg (lot of tou and healing)

4. My necro conditioner/tank just make on them 10 bleeds and they mostly gone with doing nothing (lot of tou hp and condi dmg)

5. Warrior half bunker with shouts loling around too cause heal > thier dmg (lot of tou healing and hp and condi dmg)

6. As plaing as thief there is no way to kill any bunker in 1v1 while you get owned badly tell me more thiefs is op when there is immortal bunkers in 1v3 in game

7. Only class that got right to use berserker is thief, rest of you change your builds a bit and you will get profit, cause if you play glass cannon other glass canon kill you easy, don’t QQ if you got 0 def and hp you get owned by 1 combo from thief cause my heros got lot of tou and hp and can can even 3 thief when jump on me easy
thief glass canon > any other glass canon in game

Some weapon sets need reworking, such as P/P, S/D, P/D. The situation when u use only 1 or 2 skills most of the time (P/D, P/P) is not good. 3rd skill in S/D set is weak. Body Shot needs reworking, this skill, apart from being useless, is just awkward. Traps and venoms need reworking, they’re barely used in both PvE and PvP. PW nerf was uncalled for, the issue was not with PW, the real issue was the Quickness, this buff/skill is ridiculously OP. Now, this one’s a bit tricky, i’m not too sure about that, but maybe trait lines are lack synergy between them, often it’s extremely hard to find good middle ground in terms of survivability/dps balance, for PvE and WvW, in WvW this basically forces u to run some gimmick builds (backstab or condition thief), but mb it’s just me. And maybe it’s “working as intended” thingy, like thieves have their roles etc.

PS. Thank you for creating such topics and asking such questions AN.

Dynia.9574:

Can some1 explain me why ppls think thief is op cause I rly don’t get it.

1. My memser kill them easy trolling around with clones no matter what build he is backstabber or pistol whisp or pistols or what ever (lot of tou)

2. My bunker engi laugh a lot too even if 2 thiefs jump on me reflect kill them when I do nothing just tank (lot of tou and hp)

3. My guardian loling around too cause they can’t do NOTHING to him, guardian just over heal their dmg (lot of tou and healing)

4. My necro conditioner/tank just make on them 10 bleeds and they mostly gone with doing nothing (lot of tou hp and condi dmg)

5. Warrior half bunker with shouts loling around too cause heal > thier dmg (lot of tou healing and hp and condi dmg)

6. As plaing as thief there is no way to kill any bunker in 1v1 while you get owned badly tell me more thiefs is op when there is immortal bunkers in 1v3 in game

7. Only class that got right to use berserker is thief, rest of you change your builds a bit and you will get profit, cause if you play glass cannon other glass canon kill you easy, don’t QQ if you got 0 def and hp you get owned by 1 combo from thief cause my heros got lot of tou and hp and can can even 3 thief when jump on me easy
thief glass canon > any other glass canon in game

Video or its not true… Just saying. Also, being forced Toughness / Healing on all characters to deal with 1 profession? That’s not a good thing.

Otaur.9268:

Dynia.9574:

Can some1 explain me why ppls think thief is op cause I rly don’t get it.

1. My memser kill them easy trolling around with clones no matter what build he is backstabber or pistol whisp or pistols or what ever (lot of tou)

2. My bunker engi laugh a lot too even if 2 thiefs jump on me reflect kill them when I do nothing just tank (lot of tou and hp)

3. My guardian loling around too cause they can’t do NOTHING to him, guardian just over heal their dmg (lot of tou and healing)

4. My necro conditioner/tank just make on them 10 bleeds and they mostly gone with doing nothing (lot of tou hp and condi dmg)

5. Warrior half bunker with shouts loling around too cause heal > thier dmg (lot of tou healing and hp and condi dmg)

6. As plaing as thief there is no way to kill any bunker in 1v1 while you get owned badly tell me more thiefs is op when there is immortal bunkers in 1v3 in game

7. Only class that got right to use berserker is thief, rest of you change your builds a bit and you will get profit, cause if you play glass cannon other glass canon kill you easy, don’t QQ if you got 0 def and hp you get owned by 1 combo from thief cause my heros got lot of tou and hp and can can even 3 thief when jump on me easy
thief glass canon > any other glass canon in game

Video or its not true… Just saying. Also, being forced Toughness / Healing on all characters to deal with 1 profession? That’s not a good thing.

I don’t care you believe or not, my build my cause, I won’t share with every1 to use another good builds, think yourself what is good.

And I didn’t said use tou/healing combo, just add some tou.

Just check some tpvp and tell me do thief can kill some pro bunker guardian 1v1 when he can hold 3 ppls on him and its not only guardian.

I repeat once again you are glass canon, you will die on 2-3 hits not only from thiefs but from other glasses too

I have 0 probs with killing thiefs

Ok… Explain this, im not a glass cannon, 2800 armor, 2900 armor when in earth attunement, dead in under 2 seconds and never even see the enemy. This is why people left the game, this is what they need to fix. It wouldn’t be so hard to fight back if you could see them…. And no do not say L2P because everyone knows thieves can just stealth several times to stay invis until they fight someone. Even then, 2 – 3 seconds of “revealed” doesn’t give people enough time to see them as the “revealed” debuff is off as soon as they get enough initiative to go invis again.

Absolutely 0 time to use a Cantrip to negate any damage. Arcane shield never pops up when the damage is all done in a matter of 0.5 – 2 seconds.

EDIT::: Just did some more testing with 3k+ armor and 1k Healing power. Did not die at all 2 entire games (no thieves in game).
People were getting aggravated that they couldn’t kill me, thief comes in, starts burst, I use utilities to avoid burst, 3 seconds later, all utilities on CD, thief does second burst… 3 hits, dead. Steal CnD Backstab over 3k armor, instant death.

EDIT: Added Video with 3k Armor test.
http://youtu.be/GZO1DErY4tw

this is from this morning. Absolutely ridiculous damage in WvW from a thief. He didn’t land the BS. FYI I listed my stats in the screenie L80 exotics balanced build.

I really like thiefs, their play style makes the game exciting. however there are a few things that need to be fixed.

Stealth is good- but a thief should not be able to bleed me to death while i can do nothing to them. This can be fixed by making thiefs bleed skills cost more initiative. if they have to use a lot of initiative to cause conditions then they will not be able to spend so much time in stealth which would make it fair..

Culling- if this bug can’t be fixed then at least make it so they can’t go into stealth as fast as they do to… if they had skills that gave stealth for longer, that would be fine. its just not fair that they can continuously pop in and out of it with 1-2 secs of real visibility. they should have to use it a lot more sparingly.

other than that i really like how they can do a ton of burst damage. if they couldn’t do that then there would be no point in having them around. when compared to a warrior with heavy armor and the damage they can do.

As a thief(and warrior) I just shake my head when reading all of the thief hate threads; especially those that complain about perma-stealth.

When fighting other thieves it is quite easy to guess where they are (when invisible) and put them in downed state.

It is so easy to put a thief in downed state if you are even semi-competent.

It is funny how many people can not grasp the fact that they are still there, just invisible. I can’t tell you how many times i have seen thieves try and initiate on me, and I just dodge out of the way of their opener, burn them until they try to run and then cut them down inside their shadow refuge.

In reference to heartseeker – 7-8k dmg is pretty standard against classes that have built them selves glass cannon (and if you are spec’d for it vs more heavily armored people as well.) But that is not an unbalanced amount of damage. With 2 easy dodges you can avoid the damage from two heartseeker attempts totaling 6/12 base initiative. If they are opening on you with heartseeker it is not going to hit that hard anyway and you can save the dodges. If you are actually interested in being a viable combatant, you most likely have 3 support skills which add to your durability and should have ways to avoid further damage or block incoming attacks.

If people actually played heads-up and payed attention to character animations and sound effects they could actually start getting better at PVP and become less agitated by classes and less whiny about what they perceive as imbalance.

As far as suggestions go, I believe P/P needs some love.

so apparently me having 3k defense 1026 healing and 25k hp is glass cannon ?

Rezzet, being a bunker build doesn’t always mean you won’t die. Also, you have to take in account that a lot of burst builds are based on luck. If you see them coming, then you dodge to stop their burst. You should never stand still and let them DPS you because unlike other games like WOW, GW2 doesn’t have specific roles. You don’t have a full “tank” build.
Also take in the fact that WvW has a lot of factors and players can buff themselves too.

There’s a dodge button for a reason. It’s your immune button literally and that’s essential to prevent all bursts from any class.

well its not like i charge into thieves and try kill them as im a supportive player they pretty much have several shadow steps and about 33% movement speed without swift so yeah running isnt gonna work. and if they are stealthed how the hell will i anticipate the burst, the only one easily seen is the whirlwind.

anything not as laggy as fraps i can use to record so i show how combat changes from my lvl 80 to my lvl 2 thief in wvw ?

XII.9401:

Bloodgruve.6038:

My main is a thief. I am WvW as a guardian and mesmer. I have not died to a ‘1 shot backstab’ thief in quite a long time. This is because I know how to deal with it.

First and biggest problem is the rendering issue, this needs to be fixed before any changes are made to a class. This issue is terrible, I’ve found myself in the middle of an enemy zerg, they just appeared around me, they were not thieves…

Second problem is that people complaining don’t know how to counter the thief or have come across a thief who has all of their cooldowns available and were not prepared for it. Roll a thief, learn it and know it and then you will see that it’s not so terribly OP against an experienced and skillful opponent. I’m not saying this is easy to counter but there is a way.

Blood~

The 1st two lines really sum up your argument. Play an OP class to counter an OP class..gotcha! Pick one of the holy trinity.

You missed the meaning of my post. If you are dieing to thieves, roll one and learn how to counter it. You can counter a thief, I have faith in you. I am not great at PvP but I do know how to deal with thieves because I’ve practiced being one. My Mesmer is 21 and my guardian is 60… Hardly to OP levels.

Again, fix the culling issue and then we’ll see where thieves really stand.

Blood~

Rezzet.3614:

anything not as laggy as fraps i can use to record so i show how combat changes from my lvl 80 to my lvl 2 thief in wvw ?

Your phone / handycam / photothingy mounted on a table-tripod before your monitor? If that fails you can always get a HDMI capture device, provided you have a spare machine with USB3. 1080p60 is no peanuts.

Dual Pistols need trait line love. They seem very lackluster anyway, and there is just nothing all that cool you can do with traits to make them better.

Rezzet.3614:

anything not as laggy as fraps i can use to record so i show how combat changes from my lvl 80 to my lvl 2 thief in wvw ?

MSI afterburner. Nice and free. Not sure how the lag is, but it works on my midrange, aging PC.

Rezzet.3614:

so apparently me having 3k defense 1026 healing and 25k hp is glass cannon ?

so you are simply bad pvp player, even other glass canon can counter thief if you KNOW how to FIGHT them, end of story I repeat once again thief is not op, ppls said on realise gw 2 that war with 100b is op now they learned how to fight and say they are weak -.-

There are rly more op classes in game than thief.

And one more stop QQ about invis I play thief without ANY invis and still can kill ppls easy on wvwvw as my p/p \ shotbow thief (and yes I don’t play as thief only memser for example is way more op than thief or even guardian)

I have an 80 Warrior, 80 Ranger, 80 Thief, 80 Guardian, and 43 Mesmer so please read everything I post before jumping to conclusions.

If you remove stealth, or give stealth detection you need to give the Thief a ranged weapon beyond 900 range, but instead one that has 1200 range for zerg on zerg fighting. When you do this, you’ll also need to give the Thief the ability to gain health besides stealth/initiative for their more defensive builds.

Honestly if they wanted to truly fix the stealthing issue with thieves, they need to remove Cloak and Dagger, change the traits associated with it, and give the Thief a stun or something in its place. That alone would fix all the stealthing issues people have with the perma-stealth thief.

I’ve created a bunker build for all my toons, where each has over 3500 Armor, higher than normal hit points, and so on just to test some things out. People say; “get toughness”, or “get more hit points”, but with this much defense I’m regularly hit for 5k-11k damage from glass canons, without the ability to kill them because to get this much defense, you have to give up all of your damage. THAT IS THE BIGGEST ISSUE WITH THIS GAME. Toughness, and Vitality are worthless when you can get the best survivability in the game from precision, and the 66% lifesteal from food, and 30% lifesteal from a Superior Sigil. Once I realized this, I’ve built glass canons that can survive far, far better than any of the bunker builds floating around out there.

In my opinion they need to make toughness, and vitality far more valuable than it currently is, but that is a different debate all together.

But fix Rangers first in my opinion……..

Dynia.9574:

Rezzet.3614:

so apparently me having 3k defense 1026 healing and 25k hp is glass cannon ?

so you are simply bad pvp player, even other glass canon can counter thief if you KNOW how to FIGHT them, end of story I repeat once again thief is not op, ppls said on realise gw 2 that war with 100b is op now they learned how to fight and say they are weak -.-

There are rly more op classes in game than thief.

And one more stop QQ about invis I play thief without ANY invis and still can kill ppls easy on wvwvw as my p/p \ shotbow thief (and yes I don’t play as thief only memser for example is way more op than thief or even guardian)

Pistol/Pistol is crap damage, and you’re not killing anything but alts with Cluster Bomb, or the rushing zerg who refuses to dodge.

You can’t judge Thief based off useless weapons. Put Dagger/Dagger in your hands, and give it a spin.

On my Thief, me and two other thieves killed a zerg of 25 people because they couldn’t lock us down. NO thief, hell no class should ever die to AEs, and a smart thief will slot sword in one of his primary hands to escape a lot of detriments with the number “2” ability. My Thief is Sword/Dagger, sometimes Sword/Pistol, and Shortbow. You can not lock me down, or kill me unless I make a mistake.

Its almost too late for change as too many people are dropping out of wvw because of the instant deaths from thieves. My guild has lost more than 50% participation as people tire of the frustration of thieves and the need spec and play so defensively.

Idc about the d/d nerfs, if any, but PLEASE give some love to the P/P, S/D builds.

Actually I think the thief is more or less balanced as of now (but then again I main a thief). As somebody said on this forum thiefs do extremly well against players, who don’t know how to play their class properly and thats exactly the reason for me, why so many people whine about thieves. The only build I’d consider overpowered is the p/d condition build, maybe due to the culling problems, maybe not – who knows? Maybe things would be better if attacks from stealth, particulary backstab and sneak attack had a cooldown of like 5 – 8 seconds? On the other side it might also break the builds, not being able to stack proper amounts of bleed anymore. Either way if you’re going to give a cooldown on stealth attacks you’ll have to buff us otherwise.

Anyway, some suggestions:

- reduce backstab damage by max. 10%
- increase dancing dagger damage by max. 20 – 25% (really its not viable anymore having gapclosers like heartseeker, which is almost spammable)
- decrease the damage of heartseeker (at least the below 25%), but leave range, rooting and initiative (max 4.) as it is
—> should be more of a gap closer than a OMFG 4500dmg spammable finisher
- d/d autoattack increase by 5%
- make p/p viable, also bodyshot & headshot need some love imo
- shortbow auto attack could use some faster traveling arrows, same for infiltrators arrow
- increase pistol auto attack or give us a trait for 1200 range
- revealed status is alright being 3seconds, but seems bugged sometimes as I get it for no reason, maybe thats just me
- trait 33% more movement speed while stelthed doesnt seem to work (?)

We don’t have anything viable besides heavy damage output, therefore thieves have to hit hard and then disengage, thats just the way a assassin works. Personally I would wait and see how things are when there are no culling problems anymore, because I do think thats a major factor for the huge amount of whine.

Otaur.9268:

Ok… Explain this, im not a glass cannon, 2800 armor, 2900 armor when in earth attunement, dead in under 2 seconds and never even see the enemy. This is why people left the game, this is what they need to fix. It wouldn’t be so hard to fight back if you could see them…. And no do not say L2P because everyone knows thieves can just stealth several times to stay invis until they fight someone. Even then, 2 – 3 seconds of “revealed” doesn’t give people enough time to see them as the “revealed” debuff is off as soon as they get enough initiative to go invis again.

Absolutely 0 time to use a Cantrip to negate any damage. Arcane shield never pops up when the damage is all done in a matter of 0.5 – 2 seconds.

EDIT::: Just did some more testing with 3k+ armor and 1k Healing power. Did not die at all 2 entire games (no thieves in game).
People were getting aggravated that they couldn’t kill me, thief comes in, starts burst, I use utilities to avoid burst, 3 seconds later, all utilities on CD, thief does second burst… 3 hits, dead. Steal CnD Backstab over 3k armor, instant death.

EDIT: Added Video with 3k Armor test.
http://youtu.be/GZO1DErY4tw

I truly enjoyed your video you got there….
First of all, you say no animation to dodge?
I see him cast both basilisk venom and C&D before using steal.
Watch your video again + the only burst he does is that part it’s not his 3rd burts or anything, it’s his first burst you die on due to the fact that you didn’t dodge.
Another thing, did you miss the other player? the thief wasn’t alone

laquito.5269:

Actually I think the thief is more or less balanced as of now (but then again I main a thief). As somebody said on this forum thiefs do extremly well against players, who don’t know how to play their class properly and thats exactly the reason for me, why so many people whine about thieves. The only build I’d consider overpowered is the p/d condition build, maybe due to the culling problems, maybe not – who knows? Maybe things would be better if attacks from stealth, particulary backstab and sneak attack had a cooldown of like 5 – 8 seconds? On the other side it might also break the builds, not being able to stack proper amounts of bleed anymore. Either way if you’re going to give a cooldown on stealth attacks you’ll have to buff us otherwise.

Anyway, some suggestions:

- reduce backstab damage by max. 10%
- increase dancing dagger damage by max. 20 – 25% (really its not viable anymore having gapclosers like heartseeker, which is almost spammable)
- decrease the damage of heartseeker (at least the below 25%), but leave range, rooting and initiative (max 4.) as it is
—> should be more of a gap closer than a OMFG 4500dmg spammable finisher
- d/d autoattack increase by 5%
- make p/p viable, also bodyshot & headshot need some love imo
- shortbow auto attack could use some faster traveling arrows, same for infiltrators arrow
- increase pistol auto attack or give us a trait for 1200 range
- revealed status is alright being 3seconds, but seems bugged sometimes as I get it for no reason, maybe thats just me
- trait 33% more movement speed while stelthed doesnt seem to work (?)

We don’t have anything viable besides heavy damage output, therefore thieves have to hit hard and then disengage, thats just the way a assassin works. Personally I would wait and see how things are when there are no culling problems anymore, because I do think thats a major factor for the huge amount of whine.

If they reduce the damage on steal and backstab to a reasonable amount, then it wouldn’t be so bad. The thing is, if a thief misses their first 2 button burst combo due to the enemy using utilities, they can shadowstep away and come back in less than 4 seconds, and re-do the combo before utilities are back up. For 10 – 24k damage every 4 seconds, that is a broken mechanic.

Or at the very least make armor / toughness scale better vs. backstab / steal (mug). I honestly do not care about CnD stealthing people, just the outrageous damage of backstab.

habbe.2986:

Otaur.9268:

Ok… Explain this, im not a glass cannon, 2800 armor, 2900 armor when in earth attunement, dead in under 2 seconds and never even see the enemy. This is why people left the game, this is what they need to fix. It wouldn’t be so hard to fight back if you could see them…. And no do not say L2P because everyone knows thieves can just stealth several times to stay invis until they fight someone. Even then, 2 – 3 seconds of “revealed” doesn’t give people enough time to see them as the “revealed” debuff is off as soon as they get enough initiative to go invis again.

Absolutely 0 time to use a Cantrip to negate any damage. Arcane shield never pops up when the damage is all done in a matter of 0.5 – 2 seconds.

EDIT::: Just did some more testing with 3k+ armor and 1k Healing power. Did not die at all 2 entire games (no thieves in game).
People were getting aggravated that they couldn’t kill me, thief comes in, starts burst, I use utilities to avoid burst, 3 seconds later, all utilities on CD, thief does second burst… 3 hits, dead. Steal CnD Backstab over 3k armor, instant death.

EDIT: Added Video with 3k Armor test.
http://youtu.be/GZO1DErY4tw

I truly enjoyed your video you got there….
First of all, you say no animation to dodge?
I see him cast both basilisk venom and C&D before using steal.
Watch your video again + the only burst he does is that part it’s not his 3rd burts or anything, it’s his first burst you die on due to the fact that you didn’t dodge.
Another thing, did you miss the other player? the thief wasn’t alone

I would not have died to burn as I still had my Cleansing fire up and 1k healing power (that’s 4k heals in water) And if you noticed my Endurance goes full because of my Sigil of Energy.

If you do not mind, please PM me explaining the animation on CnD. I understand stealth there is little black swirls, but in the video one second he is walking the next he is on me. There was 0 animation involved. I do not watch the top of the screen, I watch the health bar by the enemies head and watch for animations…

If they want to make CnD have a more vivid/noticeable animation like HB or Pistol Whip, then I think it would be easily avoidable. But no animation at all is kind of stupid..

There is no way to dodge what you never see, that is what im saying. I had 13.8k life in that video, he killed me in basically 3 hits. If the elementalist wasn’t there to Burn me, it would of been 2 more fast auto attacks for 1k+ dmg a hit to kill me. Still under 3 seconds on 3k + Armor…

Someone blamed me for trolling when I said Armor / Toughness doesn’t scale the damage on backstab combo, so the video and screenshot is showing you how much a difference armor makes. None.

laquito.5269:

We don’t have anything viable besides heavy damage output, therefore thieves have to hit hard and then disengage, thats just the way a assassin works

While a completely viable way to play a thief, that is just your particular play style. Assassin-type play should continue to be supported, but it isn’t the only way to play a thief, and the thief shouldn’t be balanced exclusively around it.

laquito.5269:

We don’t have anything viable besides heavy damage output, therefore thieves have to hit hard and then disengage, thats just the way a assassin works

I’ve actually seen some mean regen/condition thieves where they can hold off 2 – 3 people.

magicthighs.5372:

Caelib.2497:

Remove the ability for Theives to perma-stealth. In fact, I recommend limiting the Theif’s ability to stealth during combat to be on a 120 second cooldown.

Why not just give them dual feather dusters for weapons and make all their armor look like tutus?

Feather Dusters?Dude pls,this is too lethal.Dual wet noodle at best….

Note the guy’s post:both time its theif,not thief.I guess it’s the GW2 equivalent of “rouge”.

Otaur.9268:

I’ve actually seen some mean regen/condition thieves where they can hold off 2 – 3 people.

Viable in the sense of contributing to the team/worth playing. In the end even a p/d is about taking out multiple targets, therefore damage. Played it aswell, its mostly easy going against 3 people the more they are the harder it gets. Thats the only build I’d consider “overpowered”.

Otaur.9268:

If they reduce the damage on steal and backstab to a reasonable amount, then it wouldn’t be so bad. The thing is, if a thief misses their first 2 button burst combo due to the enemy using utilities, they can shadowstep away and come back in less than 4 seconds, and re-do the combo before utilities are back up. For 10 – 24k damage every 4 seconds, that is a broken mechanic.

Or at the very least make armor / toughness scale better vs. backstab / steal (mug). I honestly do not care about CnD stealthing people, just the outrageous damage of backstab.

I proposed a 10% nerf on backstab, which would be fairly ok with me, but you gotta keep in mind that backstab only hits that hard due to the build being built around it (glass cannon). If you nerf backstab as much as you did it with dancing dagger it won’t be viable anymore, not to talk about its damage when you’re specced as non glass cannon. Mug barely does 2k damage for me anymore, maybe they nerfed it, I don’t care and thats not my point, but if we fail our initial 3 button combo we can’t pull of “14 – 24k”within 4 sec". Steal has a 45 sec cooldown.

Can’t say much about toughness scaling, but I do think armor comprimises damage rather well, anything with ~2k8 armor should easily be able to survive the initial burst and then its totally up to you to decide the match. I don’t think people would be whining that much about the thief if we weren’t able to stealth. Glasscannon Warriors can daze, cripple, push you, have access to stability, invulnerability and hit even harder & deal AoE damage, thieves got stealth and thats about it.

Now if you whined about P/D thieves being invisible 70% of the fight, I’d totally be with you and say they’re overpowered atm, be it due to culling error or not, but backstab whine is so outdated, if you’re struggeling with thieves just play one for a bit, get to know the mechanics and you’ll be a lot more successfull countering one, belive me there are enough possibilities.

Its not one thing on the thief – its a combination of many – a ‘too much of too much’ situation.

The burst damage is very high – perhaps this would be OK if thats all there was and the class had other limiting factors. However there are no limiting factors and the front loadeed burst is extreme – but it doesn’t tail off either. Plus ranged spammable abilities with high damage, pulls and gap closers – there is no weakness.

Constant invisibility – stealth isn’t a one shot attempt. Constant restealthing and resetting fights on a ludicrously short cooldown. Once out of stealth a thief should be committed and vulnerable – currently this is not so.

Heartseeker – massive damage, gap closer, spammable and when untargetted an escape ability. Needs a cooldown, damage reduction and require a target.

Too much damage plus invisibility plus range plus gap closer plus escape whenever the thief wants. its overpowered and multiple things have to give.

Tulisin.6945:

Sparky.6897:

There is an issue with RENDERING in WvW as we all know.

Please stop saying that, culling and rendering are not the same thing.

Actually, his statement is quite accurate, because there are two bugs affecting player visibility:

• Server-side culling (i.e., prioritization of which entities to communicate to the client).
• Client side deferred rendering (characters don’t render until all their geometry and textures have been loaded).

Both issues affect the actual rendering of enemies on the screen. In addition to that, clients have (or had) a delay in re-enabling rendering of recently unstealthed thieves.

tagnut.8621:

Its not one thing on the thief – its a combination of many – a ‘too much of too much’ situation.

The burst damage is very high – perhaps this would be OK if thats all there was and the class had other limiting factors. However there are no limiting factors and the front loadeed burst is extreme – but it doesn’t tail off either. Plus ranged spammable abilities with high damage, pulls and gap closers – there is no weakness.

Constant invisibility – stealth isn’t a one shot attempt. Constant restealthing and resetting fights on a ludicrously short cooldown. Once out of stealth a thief should be committed and vulnerable – currently this is not so.

Heartseeker – massive damage, gap closer, spammable and when untargetted an escape ability. Needs a cooldown, damage reduction and require a target.

Too much damage plus invisibility plus range plus gap closer plus escape whenever the thief wants. its overpowered and multiple things have to give.

This sounds like someone who doesn’t play a thief.

I have an 80 warrior, ranger – and now thief as of a few days ago. I don’t have any complaints about thief besides the fact that some thieves seem to stealth way more than I can as well I’ve had a few thieves in WvW able to target and heartseeker spam me while I’m stealthed, unsure how this is possible (yes, I know you can still be attacked while in stealth, but it was obvious they had me targetted and were simply HS spamming). I don’t see why this thread exists under this profession and not for ranger, a class that obviously had no thought put into it and is completely worthless at this point in the game.

Oh and lets not forget stomping whilst stealthed – also needs to be removed.

Its funny. Any other class can spec any other way and have a reasonable chance of beating any other class – but for some strange reason every other class has to spec a specific way to beat a thief.

Its overpowered as hell guys – give it up its going to get nerfed more.

Is it normal that we can Stealth / Stomp someone?

Kinda sad that we couldnt target the one stomping us and get no defense against it!

Edit: Sorry I see that some other ppl already said it!…

jkctmc.8754:

Dynia.9574:

Rezzet.3614:

so apparently me having 3k defense 1026 healing and 25k hp is glass cannon ?

so you are simply bad pvp player, even other glass canon can counter thief if you KNOW how to FIGHT them, end of story I repeat once again thief is not op, ppls said on realise gw 2 that war with 100b is op now they learned how to fight and say they are weak -.-

There are rly more op classes in game than thief.

And one more stop QQ about invis I play thief without ANY invis and still can kill ppls easy on wvwvw as my p/p \ shotbow thief (and yes I don’t play as thief only memser for example is way more op than thief or even guardian)

Pistol/Pistol is crap damage, and you’re not killing anything but alts with Cluster Bomb, or the rushing zerg who refuses to dodge.

You can’t judge Thief based off useless weapons. Put Dagger/Dagger in your hands, and give it a spin.

On my Thief, me and two other thieves killed a zerg of 25 people because they couldn’t lock us down. NO thief, hell no class should ever die to AEs, and a smart thief will slot sword in one of his primary hands to escape a lot of detriments with the number “2” ability. My Thief is Sword/Dagger, sometimes Sword/Pistol, and Shortbow. You can not lock me down, or kill me unless I make a mistake.

Tell it to ppls I killed with p/p …
p/p crap dmg ? 5-8k is low with every unload + I can spam it all the time pls …
I stay with p/p, cause p/p will get boost and d/d and invis get nerf and I will laugh a lot im skillfull without invis

dodge build > invis build anywhere any time
yes, you killed 25 ppls ofc you trolling to get thiefs nerf

try to use stun build on your thief vs my memser (2 stun breakers make me laugh even more) I will laugh a lot, I killed already 35r+ backstabers thiefs with him and they called me totally op class (if you tell me r35 on spvp is low or noob I will laugh on your face)

Once again ppls who die to backstab thiefs are just bad pvp players who don’t know what every class can do, I played already every class I know almost every build in game with every class and I know how to counter it when to dodge etc. Ofc it not always get 100% win cause some classes is better vs other classes etc.

Another thing its not about balance or build but about players skills, what skislls they pick what they do,what timing on skill they choose etc. PvP now fast like in dota 2 one small mistake or a bit slower reacion some times cost you life or even cast stun breaker 0,5 sec too late.

…………………….

I played ele on gw2 realise on spvp killed ppls they called me op,
later long time break from pvp I took thief killed ppls they called me op …
ok next class I took necro heavy conditioner/tank with mm build killed ppls they called me op
next class I check was total bunker engi point defender tanked 3 ppls easy they called me op … dafaq engi op ?!
another class guardian, I killed some ppls with him mostly thiefs but not only they called me op again … dafaq ? ALL class op ?
next was fun warrior s/s bleeder with shouts for heal killed some ppls with bleed + tank heal with shouts they called me op (shaman amulet on warrior ftw ^^)
next class memser I play now, Im killing r35+ players easy on spvp when im 15 they call me op and they think I play on new acc cause that rang play that good -.- another class is op ?!

Ok guys I classes I played is op … when all classes is op game is balanced ? -.-

Its rly all depons on your build skill and timing what you do, thiefs is not that op if you know how to fight them
If invis will be nerfed is ok for me xD I don’t use it for my thiefs dodges is just better for me cause I know how to use them vs most classes already boost p/p you are welcome to do it :]

This is not a sarcastic question, but can AN rename the thief the assassin as it was in GW1? It feels as though a lot of complaints come from “thief hits too hard/thief has too much stealth.” Renaming it would emphasize that that’s what it is supposed to do. When the names of some of the abilities were taken from the assassin abilities, I don’t know why the name of the class needed to be changed.

Maugetarr.6823:

This is not a sarcastic question, but can AN rename the thief the assassin as it was in GW1? It feels as though a lot of complaints come from “thief hits too hard/thief has too much stealth.” Renaming it would emphasize that that’s what it is supposed to do. When the names of some of the abilities were taken from the assassin abilities, I don’t know why the name of the class needed to be changed.

my thief should be called gunslinger cause I don’t use any invis but lot of dodges ^^

I would LOVE to see P/P get some loving to become a viable contender as a ranged weaponset.

The issues of rendering in WvW is a problem with stealth. That needs to be fixed on Anet’s end/the game’s end. Having revealed on a longer duration than it is for WvW may help some. Who knows how much, though. Again, this is on Anet’s end of things, not the class’ fault specifically. But I will say the stealth mechanic does need to be tweaked a little. How? I’m not on the balancing team, so I can’t say how. It’s just something to be looked at, considering high output damage that is coupled with it.

Perhaps tweak D/D might be in order to help along these issues. Again, how? I do not know, but giving it a look over isn’t unreasonable.

tagnut.8621:

Its funny. Any other class can spec any other way and have a reasonable chance of beating any other class – but for some strange reason every other class has to spec a specific way to beat a thief.

In my experience, that’s not true. The “Don’t play glass cannon!” echo chamber is pretty severe on the forums, but really what we’ve got is that only good builds can reliably challenge other good builds. In my experience, “glass cannon” warriors who know what they’re doing can hold their own against thieves just as easily as “tanky” ones can. Likewise, the best elementalist, mesmer, or guardian build for fighting thieves seems to be… just the ones that are all-around strongest anyway.

Dynia.9574:

ok next class I took necro heavy conditioner/tank with mm build killed ppls they called me op

I actually thought you are serious untill I read this lol.
I`m willing to call you out on this and show you that your “Hair conditioner/tank mm” can be facerolled by any class, no matter the spec.
You`re just another thief wannabe pro who just spills crap on the forum trying to defend their garbage class. Go in wvw and tell me how well you can fight a thief when you only get to see them for 2 seconds because of Anets crappy engine.
You also mention that thieves are the only ones allowed to wear berserker gear… this just goes to show how clueless and biased you are.
PS – A conditioner is something that improves the quality of another material. I doubt condition damage has anything to do with that)

My opinion, way to many means to stealth in combat. I never seen a game where a class can constantly come in and out of stealth with such ease. Damage is way too high, only a few classes can spike this high when spec for gc, for example warrior gc can at least be counted and the warrior would lose. Thief on the other hand can simply stealth and if you are lucky run away but more likely he will return within a few secs with more than half of their hp ;and while all your defensive skill are cooling down finish you off . I don’t even mind that their damage is high, and they don’t have cool down and can spam very effectivetly but at least concider putting a condition of not being able to stealth after they hit for a big amount of damage or something for like 15 secs.