Guild Wars 2

Maugetarr.6823:

Also if all AoEs are so ineffective, I guess we should just tell all the other classes to not even use them.

This is my advice. Red-circle AE effects aren’t very helpful when combating stealth unless you’re dropping them on yourself as a defensive measure. You’ll get more mileage out of reading and anticipating where the stealthed target will be and then using auto attacks.

“Use AEs to combat stealth” is poor advice that much of the community gives and only really serves to further the problem of people not knowing how to fight stealth when they think their best option is to blow all their resources covering the ground in red circles. When someone stops thinking like a player and starts acting like an NPC, they’re going to die to a thief like an NPC would in PvE.

Tulisin.6945:

jkctmc.8754:

So yes, Steatlh prevents all single target damage that requires a target.

Which is nothing in GW2, because GW2’s combat system isn’t target based. Some players have become very reliant on locked tab targets to do damage, and stealth punishes their refusal to learn how to actually fight very harshly. Someone spamming projectiles into the ground when faced with a stealthed opponent is an excellent indicator that they never learned to fight without a locked target.

I would LOVE for non-thieves to start using single target weapon attacks, some of which have a 20 second, or longer recast timers, and single target abilities that could be on a 90 sec, or 240 sec recast timer. That would make for a much, much easier kill.

Do you have proof that you don’t need to have a target to use single target abilities, and have them actually hit us? I’ll have to test this, but some how this doesn’t seem accurate, and I wouldn’t suggest it to non-thieves.

jkctmc.8754:

Do you have proof that you don’t need to have a target to use single target abilities, and have them actually hit us?

C&D is single-target, right? I’ve hit stealthed thieves with it successfully on a number of occasions.

Ranged is a problem, though, because untargeted shots tend to just fizzle out, like, ten feet away from your character.

Tulisin.6945:

Which is nothing in GW2, because GW2’s combat system isn’t target based. Some players have become very reliant on locked tab targets to do damage, and stealth punishes their refusal to learn how to actually fight very harshly. Someone spamming projectiles into the ground when faced with a stealthed opponent is an excellent indicator that they never learned to fight without a locked target.

There are several skills in the game that need to have a target selected to even be used, let alone actually hit things. Certainly not all of them, but not all attacks can work without first selecting a target.

EDIT: I should probably provide an example, huh? Here’s a couple skills I can think of that can’t hit unless you activate them with a target selected. Necromancer’s Doom, Ghastly Claws, Life Siphon. Mesmer’s Spatial Surge, Confusing Images and most (if not all?) Mesmer weapon Phantasm Skills. Phantasm skills won’t start the recharge though, they’ll just tell you they can’t be used. I can’t think of any for the Guardian though, or even for the Thief, so it definitely counters some classes drastically more than others.

Obviously there’s still a lot of options for attacking a stealthed character, but just remember (if you didn’t already) that it does flat out remove some of them, including some Weapon 1 skills.

ASP.8093:

Ranged is a problem, though, because untargeted shots tend to just fizzle out, like, ten feet away from your character.

They go to their full range or farther if you arc some of them, you just have to use your screen to aim them.

ASP.8093:

Ranged is a problem, though, because untargeted shots tend to just fizzle out, like, ten feet away from your character.

Ranged already got a perfect defense agaisnt C&D : keeping at range.

Increased damage, reduced recast times and stronger underwater. Huzzah, this thread is meaningless… and someone, if not everyone, at ArenaNet play a thief as their main character… and so does everyone in World vs World. I WILL NOT SUCCUMB TO THE DARK SIDE. >:\

Thief
-Whirling Axe: This skill can now be cancelled by other skills.
-Fear (Stolen item— Skull): This skill now works like the warrior skill “Fear Me.” It will now actually hit its range, but also have a falloff on fear duration based on distance.
-Ink Shot: This skill is now a projectile combo finisher.
-Tow Line: This skill is now a projectile finisher.
-Escape (Harpoon Gun): This skill now creates a poison field with art changes to reflect this.
-Ink Shot: Projectile speed for this skill has been increased by 22%
-Instinctual Response: Now triggers at 10% damage instead of 20%.
-Ricochet: Increased bounce chance from 5% to 20%.
-Fleet Shadow: Increased move speed from 33% to 50%.
-Slowed Pulse: This can now trigger every 20 seconds instead of every 30.
-Pistol Mastery: Increased damage from 5% to 10%.
-Improvisation: Now also increased damage with environment weapons by 10%.
-Piercing Shot: This skill is no longer able to fire at enemies behind the player.

Aneirin Cadwall.9126:

Increased damage, reduced recast times and stronger underwater. Huzzah, this thread is meaningless… and someone, if not everyone, at ArenaNet play a thief as their main character… and so does everyone in World vs World. I WILL NOT SUCCUMB TO THE DARK SIDE. >:\

Thief
-Whirling Axe: This skill can now be cancelled by other skills.
-Fear (Stolen item— Skull): This skill now works like the warrior skill “Fear Me.” It will now actually hit its range, but also have a falloff on fear duration based on distance.
-Ink Shot: This skill is now a projectile combo finisher.
-Tow Line: This skill is now a projectile finisher.
-Escape (Harpoon Gun): This skill now creates a poison field with art changes to reflect this.
-Ink Shot: Projectile speed for this skill has been increased by 22%
-Instinctual Response: Now triggers at 10% damage instead of 20%.
-Ricochet: Increased bounce chance from 5% to 20%.
-Fleet Shadow: Increased move speed from 33% to 50%.
-Slowed Pulse: This can now trigger every 20 seconds instead of every 30.
-Pistol Mastery: Increased damage from 5% to 10%.
-Improvisation: Now also increased damage with environment weapons by 10%.
-Piercing Shot: This skill is no longer able to fire at enemies behind the player.

The fact you’re annoyed by these shows how little you know about thieves.
Of all those changes, aside from the water skills you probably only see the stolen skills in use. And the skull fear is now weaker at max range.

I have a thief character as one of my alts and they’re all I encounter in World vs World for awhile now… I know enough to know that any increase in damage or reduction in recharge is… terrible.

stof.9341:

Jamais vu.5284:

I’m just puzzled – why do I never ever have issues with thieves in sPvP, but in WvW they seem utterly broken?

No food in sPvP and the berserker gear there isn’t pure zerk either but a mix of power/precision/crit/vitality

People go into WvW with low level kit, no buffs and no food, then complain that the ‘class is broken’ when they get killed by someone wearing full exotics with Omnomberry food and buffs etc.

jkctmc.8754:

I can still hit Toughness builds with 3500 Armor for 4k-5k, and they have no chance to ever kill me. That is absurd considering they give up pretty much all the damage they can do, for added survivability, and I give up nothing, and have much better survivability, and MUCH better damage. That’s why I laughed hard when people complained about the 1600 heal Guardians got on dodge roll, WHICH GOT NERFED, but no one cried about the 9-12k hits from Thieves, or the 16k-22k hits from Warriors, which still exists. This game, and its players crack me up.

Yeah I feel if Thief is not fixed soon it may have a detrimental effect on WvW, where I’ve seen people log out quite often recently over thieves.

Relentliss.2170:

Yeah I feel if Thief is not fixed soon it may have a detrimental effect on WvW, where I’ve seen people log out quite often recently over thieves.

Omg,those thieves will ruin the game,mark my words.People are quiting,just because of them…The game is almost dead.End of the World is coming(6 more days to go,It’s thief fault).

ZLE.8293:

Relentliss.2170:

Yeah I feel if Thief is not fixed soon it may have a detrimental effect on WvW, where I’ve seen people log out quite often recently over thieves.

Omg,those thieves will ruin the game,mark my words.People are quiting,just because of them…The game is almost dead.End of the World is coming(6 more days to go,It’s thief fault).

Here’s my feedback on gameplay: I’ve actually quit because of thieves.

Specifically because of all of the kittening nerfs with no sense whatsoever arenanet keeps inflicting on us. Us and other classes, like the mesmer portal or the engineer 30% base grenade reduction. And then they throw us totally unbalanced (as in not even close to what they took) changes like lolscorpion wire, or give 25% speed increase for other classes oprah style while we get some consolation prize that feels more like a spit in the face rather than moving the “value” of burst damage to some other part of the thief.

Ah well. Maybe they’ll recover their sense some time in the future.

Fix perma stealth …fix instant ur dead on port macro … i hear this well lock him down.. or just spam aoe randomly and cover all of the map … or if u played a thief u would know how to kill them … i just fought one for 15 mins ……… pistol pistol .. stealth .. constant perma stealth got so bad he whould let off entire round with out coming outta stealth.

they have no cool downs .. every class in game does hand them out and oh look thief is on equal ground .. no more port port port .. or instant spam 3 abilitys target dead in .00005 secs.. no wait im gonna start one … so just dont touch them so i can enjoy face roll and go cry to someone who cares

oh wait thats not the best part.. as soon as he hit 15 % port port port port port port port port port … heal come back …. and waste more of my time.

off to start a thief ,watch a video .. look at a couple builds and enjoy the rest of my day rinse and repeat 1vX .. and come back here and defend .. how broken it is..

so tired of seeing thiefs and thinking hope he dosent have that build .. in that vid he watched .. so i can fight him while he perma evades .. or perma stealth ..or instant one shots me …

also get rid of finishing in stealth.. it’s kitten .. since oh wait perma stealth

XII.9401:

Check it out: 21715 damage on a 1681 toughness/2032 hp from a thief in 2 seconds.

3 armor pieces vitality and 3 pieces toughness all exotics with 300 toughness from the defense line. No..quickness wasn’t up..didn’t get a chance to =D

Are we supposed to go all toughness /vitality to survive a 2 second burst? Not really..toughness won’t protect you from over the top damage -unless you can buff protection in time-.

I wouldn’t mind this damage if I could see someone coming instead of them blinking instantly towards me and being able to get away whenever they wanted.

Sheesh..I can’t imagine what the other classes have to do with their lower base toughness and vitality.

Pic attached.

Equip a shield. You’re welcome. It’s probably 100% likely that the damage received from that happened in quick sucession. Endure pain, or a shield would have blocked. Use a one handed hammer, and daze/knockdown, switch to greatsword, 100B. You’re welcome.

P.S 20K hp on a warrior is low.

My ranger has 19.5k health.

About 2 mins ago:

BAM 6.somethingk C&D
BAM 12.somethingk Backstab

I’m on the floor before the thief is even visible. No other class can do this – thief still needs a significant nerf.

Here are the issues with thief class in my opinion:

1-) General Sword weapon uselessness

a-) Sword/pistol: Since the %15 damage nerf on pistol whip this build is kinda useless. The damage of pistol whip should be increased %8-9 percent.

b-)Sword/dagger: There are plentry of threads about this weapon sets dual skill. It’s mechanic is kinda broken i think with the evade thing.

c-) Traits about sword: If the thief can wield sword and its a part of the gameplay. There should be some traits about sword

With these 3, it is impossible to play with sword in competitive matches

2-) General problems with pistol: I see you realized how weak this build is and buffing it slowly with each patch. But the problem is, since you increased the arrow velocity with the last patch it seems the bullets are moving slower than the arrows. It is like a joke. Am i the only one noticed that?

3-) Trap utilities: I think these utilities do not match with the gameplay of thief and they can not be used for an effective build

4-) Unnecessary traits: There are some traits that is not necessary to use in any build. Such as; Sleight of Hand, Improvisation, Panic strike, Initial Strike, Patience…

This is my opinion about the thief’s current state thank you for reading

lower backstab dammage by 50% and add a effect like cripple or stun

MasterDeere.3417:

lower backstab dammage by 50% and add a effect like cripple or stun

So, you want BS Front damage to do less damage then all but the first strike on the auto attack chain, and the back damage to only do 30% more damage then the auto attack 2nd or 3rd hit? That might work with the stun added, but not the cripple. Next question how long a stun? 1sec? 2sec? You don’t think that will make thieves worse then they are now? Picture those bands of thieves everyone keeps mentioning. Now they can stun you in place permanently and kill you with even less thought. Hey! We can now destroy bunker builds as well!

MasterDeere.3417:

lower backstab dammage by 50% and add a effect like cripple or stun

This is on the right track, but too drastic.

Raw BS damage should be lowered in favor of something more synergistic that can grow with thief skill instead of remaining boring and stagnant.

Personally I would prefer lower damage on C&D. The best skill used for utility (stealth and vulnerability) shouldn’t be hitting for over 5k. If the thief is not supposed to be based on cool downs there needs to be a choice between utility attacks that put a person into stealth and damage attacks.

MasterDeere.3417:

lower backstab dammage by 50% and add a effect like cripple or stun

Funny part is even if they nerf it 50% the really bad squishy players(practically the only ones complaining now) will still die

5K steal
5K cnd
6K backstab

We’re most likely going to get nerfed, like it or not.
Here’s some ideas to nerf thieves properly (I’m not suggesting they should all be implemented, they’re just some separate ideas, also, they’re based on WvW) :
-Remove damage from Mug and make it a knockdown/knockback instead.
-Put a cooldown on Cloak&Dagger
-Let Steal interrupt attacks that are in progress (like Cloack&Dagger)
-Lower the damage on heartseeker when hitting targets above 25% Hp.
-Increase revealed debuff to 5s duration.
-Add 2s revealed debuff when leaving stealth without attacking.
Fix culling, obviously.
-Increase clusterbomb initiative cost to 4, give it 50% extra projectile speed to compensate.

I hope any future nerfs will be coupled with buffs in other areas, to compensate.
I hope Arenanet will be careful with nerfs, thieves are currently very strong against new players and mediocre against experienced players.

BS is already the worst build Thief has for PvP and you want that to be nerfed..pshh realy inteligent people.

Jefzor.7145:

We’re most likely going to get nerfed, like it or not.
Here’s some ideas to nerf thieves properly (I’m not suggesting they should all be implemented, they’re just some separate ideas, also, they’re based on WvW) :
-Remove damage from Mug and make it a knockdown/knockback instead.
-Put a cooldown on Cloak&Dagger
-Let Steal interrupt attacks that are in progress (like Cloack&Dagger)
-Lower the damage on heartseeker when hitting targets above 25% Hp.
-Increase revealed debuff to 5s duration.
-Add 2s revealed debuff when leaving stealth without attacking.
Fix culling, obviously.
-Increase clusterbomb initiative cost to 4, give it 50% extra projectile speed to compensate.

I hope any future nerfs will be coupled with buffs in other areas, to compensate.
I hope Arenanet will be careful with nerfs, thieves are currently very strong against new players and mediocre against experienced players.

What? These are a total nerf into the ground. Also this has to be based on nothing but a D/D thief. I don’t run a D/D thief my CnD doesn’t hit for more than 1.5k on crit my Mug hits for about the same a little bit more like 1.7k. My clusterbomb is lol laugh at me damage. Mug as a knockdown or knockback is redundant with bask venom and or devourer but yea sure. Mug a knockdown tied with devourer and bask venom ok.

There is no way you thought any of of your proposed nerfs through at all. Yea thats all not thought through at all. Also its based on WvW. Where 99% of these complaints come from.

If you want to offer a good suggestion against the thief how about you think umm PvE,sPvP, and WvW. Then you would at least be doing half of what a real balance team would be doing. Offering silly suggestions based on 1 game mode (the one you probably play the most is silly)

NightyNight.1823:

BS is already the worst build Thief has for PvP and you want that to be nerfed..pshh realy inteligent people.

You are aware that they can split skills between PvP and PvE, right?

rootnode.9546:

NightyNight.1823:

BS is already the worst build Thief has for PvP and you want that to be nerfed..pshh realy inteligent people.

You are aware that they can split skills between PvP and PvE, right?

Are you aware that you’re not aware of your unawareness?

BS is a bad build .Its defenceless against most classes.Down right the most obvious and easy to counter.If anything, it deserves a buff.Theres a reason it hasn’t been adressed yet , its because it sucks.

As much as I enjoy playing my thief (alt), they are incredibly over-powered when it comes to dealing damage. More than a few times, I’ve been hit for my entire 22k health pool, on my Engi, with a full toughness and vitality build (6x Rune of the Undead, pistol/ shield, food buffs), in 3-4 hits.

With the amount of toughness/vitality I currently have, I should NOT be getting hit for that much, that quickly. I understand that some will spec as a “glass cannon” but that shouldn’t add up to getting hit for 22k in 2-3 seconds.

Reading these comments I have identified 1 key issue that will forever plague Thief balancing.

Stealth

Stealth is one of these things that seems impossible to balance properly for all three game environments (PvE, WvW and sPvP).

In WvW Stealth is currently twice as effective as it should be due to culling/rendering issues.

In sPvP Stealth functions more or less as conceived and works well as both offensive and defensive utility.

In PvE Stealth doesn’t add all that much survivability and is mainly used as a damage source (for Backstabs).

Without fundamental changes (like the ones I proposed earlier on itt) it won’t be possible to balance Stealth for all three environments.

What seems real unfair is terms of WvWvW and PvP, is the Thiefs ability to stealth while doing a finisher.

That pretty much sucks, because they 100% kill you if you’re not a guardian with the big blue shield thing while downed..

Make it so thiefs cant use finishers in stealth. That’s really annoying.

Mouse.1024:

What seems real unfair is terms of WvWvW and PvP, is the Thiefs ability to stealth while doing a finisher.

That pretty much sucks, because they 100% kill you if you’re not a guardian with the big blue shield thing while downed..

Make it so thiefs cant use finishers in stealth. That’s really annoying.

Seen this discussion, and here’s the thing. Everyone else can finish everyone too including the guardian. Stealth is the weakest protected stomp because it’s only one that can be CC’d.

Dual.8953:

Mouse.1024:

What seems real unfair is terms of WvWvW and PvP, is the Thiefs ability to stealth while doing a finisher.

That pretty much sucks, because they 100% kill you if you’re not a guardian with the big blue shield thing while downed..

Make it so thiefs cant use finishers in stealth. That’s really annoying.

Seen this discussion, and here’s the thing. Everyone else can finish everyone too including the guardian. Stealth is the weakest protected stomp because it’s only one that can be CC’d.

The thing is, once you’re down, it’s basically over. You’re downed, they hit stealth, no way to counter, or even have a chance at getting up. You’re done for

Mouse.1024:

Dual.8953:

Mouse.1024:

What seems real unfair is terms of WvWvW and PvP, is the Thiefs ability to stealth while doing a finisher.

That pretty much sucks, because they 100% kill you if you’re not a guardian with the big blue shield thing while downed..

Make it so thiefs cant use finishers in stealth. That’s really annoying.

Seen this discussion, and here’s the thing. Everyone else can finish everyone too including the guardian. Stealth is the weakest protected stomp because it’s only one that can be CC’d.

The thing is, once you’re down, it’s basically over. You’re downed, they hit stealth, no way to counter, or even have a chance at getting up. You’re done for

It’s no different if a Warrior, Necro, Ele, Engie, Guardian or Mesmer are stomping you, only you actually have a chance that the Thief will be CC’d, where all the others have stability, or invulnerability. (well I supposed necro’s blind stomp can be CC’d by a teammate but they can avoid their victim’s CC’s with blind.

Jefzor.7145:

We’re most likely going to get nerfed, like it or not.
Here’s some ideas to nerf thieves properly (I’m not suggesting they should all be implemented, they’re just some separate ideas, also, they’re based on WvW) :
-Remove damage from Mug and make it a knockdown/knockback instead.
-Put a cooldown on Cloak&Dagger
-Let Steal interrupt attacks that are in progress (like Cloack&Dagger)
-Lower the damage on heartseeker when hitting targets above 25% Hp.
-Increase revealed debuff to 5s duration.
-Add 2s revealed debuff when leaving stealth without attacking.
Fix culling, obviously.
-Increase clusterbomb initiative cost to 4, give it 50% extra projectile speed to compensate.

I hope any future nerfs will be coupled with buffs in other areas, to compensate.
I hope Arenanet will be careful with nerfs, thieves are currently very strong against new players and mediocre against experienced players.

IMO, CnD should remain the same if the other stealth changes are implemented.

REVAMP THE WHOLE CLASS. You can’t build a class that has “stealthing in combat” built deeply into their skills/spells and throw a immune timer into the mix.

Is there another class in the game that has spells that share
skill type cooldown+duration timer+skill cooldown+Initiative usage(in some cases)?

What protection does a rogue have? Oh yea stealth and evade…..thats pretty much it.

You should just change the intire make up of the class to where you have no need of stealth while in combat.

If you wanted to stop the bleeding thieves who take on 10 people at a time? The make the caltrops on evade unstealth you when they hit something.

Heh just copy and paste a WoW rogue and rename the game fuzzy care bears online. It would be better then the current state that your thieves are in at the present time.

Wilow.3061:

XII.9401:

Even when culling is fixed you will still have pistol condition build thieves disappearing every 5-7 seconds. Culling is not the only issue..restealthing repeatedly on such short interval is the 2nd part of the problem.

An in-depth look into the class is needed. Thieves should only have a stealth on approach. By granting them stealth during the fight it just turns them into the rogue class in every other mmorpg that Anet was trying to avoid. Not only that, but the thief in this game stealthes much MUCH more than any other mmorpg game stealth class.

Stop using the WvW excuse..we all see the thief coming and a lot of us are full exotics..its not that hard to get. If what you say is true about wvw..why are the complaints directly mainly at thieves? Why not at engineers? Or necros? Its the thief class..not everyone else.

Go to the sPvP forums, there is a reason people are using WvW examples of thief “OPness”. No one thinks thiefs are OP in sPvP. People complain about thieves in WvW because they can probably take advantage of the zerg mentality better then any other class now that AoE is capped at 5 targets.

Granting the thief in combat stealth does not make them like every other “rogue” out there. Actually, it’s the exact opposite. Those other “rogues” out there all have passive stealth, stuns and and evasion outside stealth. Thieves have in combat stealth and…in combat stealth. How does in combat stealth make them like other “rogues”?

As to your photo, nice “in under 2 seconds”. The thief is either a moron for using CnD before the 3sec debuff, or those hits took longer then 2 seconds. Either way, you are still a bad warrior playing his glass cannon toon and complaining that he was unable to land his combo after he Bull Rushed in. Also, not sure why you see a Steal and a Infiltrator’s strike next to each other…nor do I understand why I see him using DD in this 2 second burst pic…I also noticed you won that encounter. Nerf warrior IMO…they should not be able to kill things.

Please stop posting, or at the very least, please stop posting pics as proof.

I’m sorry but your discussion is kinda..wrong. And no..my stats are not glass canon. And no..I didn’t win that encounter.

As for people who keep posting L2p and troll more etc.. I thank you..this will only bump the thread up and demonstrate the mentality of players abusing a broken class.

I will keep providing evidence in pics and videos. Everyone who isn’t a thief experiences it. I simply show proof. I encourage everyone to take snapshots of the damage and show it here otherwise the broken class will never get fixed.

As for people who say L2count..I suggest the non-theif players pop that video and count the seconds between stealths.

If you don’t state your opinion and complaints in this game you will keep getting trolled by thieves.

Why does every other class have to equip AOE and spam it hoping it lands when fighting a thief while we aren’t forced to do that with every other class? Its easy for a thief to avoid AOEs since they SEE them while we can’t see the thief coming.
So our defense is to play whack the invisible mole?

That sounds like broken mechanics. The majority have spoken. If people thought the thief class was ok..this thread wouldn’t be this long.

Mouse.1024:

What seems real unfair is terms of WvWvW and PvP, is the Thiefs ability to stealth while doing a finisher.

That pretty much sucks, because they 100% kill you if you’re not a guardian with the big blue shield thing while downed..

Make it so thiefs cant use finishers in stealth. That’s really annoying.

A simple blind ability like Signet of Shadows is just as powerful as stealth-stomping. Works on guardians, too.

Kabukijo.6053:

Fix perma stealth …fix instant ur dead on port macro … i hear this well lock him down.. or just spam aoe randomly and cover all of the map … or if u played a thief u would know how to kill them … i just fought one for 15 mins ……… pistol pistol .. stealth .. constant perma stealth got so bad he whould let off entire round with out coming outta stealth.

they have no cool downs .. every class in game does hand them out and oh look thief is on equal ground .. no more port port port .. or instant spam 3 abilitys target dead in .00005 secs.. no wait im gonna start one … so just dont touch them so i can enjoy face roll and go cry to someone who cares

oh wait thats not the best part.. as soon as he hit 15 % port port port port port port port port port … heal come back …. and waste more of my time.

off to start a thief ,watch a video .. look at a couple builds and enjoy the rest of my day rinse and repeat 1vX .. and come back here and defend .. how broken it is..

so tired of seeing thiefs and thinking hope he dosent have that build .. in that vid he watched .. so i can fight him while he perma evades .. or perma stealth ..or instant one shots me …

also get rid of finishing in stealth.. it’s kitten .. since oh wait perma stealth

In one single post you managed to complain about thieves(not thiefs),that kill you too fast with Backstab,or too slow with bleeds.What death you would enjoy?A medium long?
Also you complain about Stealth stomp,while actually Black Powder stomp is 100 times better.Also you complain from perma evade.Also you complain from perma port,port(i would presume this must be perma-Infiltrator’s arrow,described trough your zero ingame knowledge).
At the end you threaten to make a thief as well and “enjoy your rest of the day,rince and repeat”…To this i will say : Go on make one.Show us.SPvP is full with such wannabes,that has been told or red about magical OP thief that plays himself alone,who are SO CLUELESS,that actually beside their nameplates ANet has wrote: “Hopeless”

oZii.2864:

Jefzor.7145:

We’re most likely going to get nerfed, like it or not.
Here’s some ideas to nerf thieves properly (I’m not suggesting they should all be implemented, they’re just some separate ideas, also, they’re based on WvW) :
-Remove damage from Mug and make it a knockdown/knockback instead.
-Put a cooldown on Cloak&Dagger
-Let Steal interrupt attacks that are in progress (like Cloack&Dagger)
-Lower the damage on heartseeker when hitting targets above 25% Hp.
-Increase revealed debuff to 5s duration.
-Add 2s revealed debuff when leaving stealth without attacking.
Fix culling, obviously.
-Increase clusterbomb initiative cost to 4, give it 50% extra projectile speed to compensate.

I hope any future nerfs will be coupled with buffs in other areas, to compensate.
I hope Arenanet will be careful with nerfs, thieves are currently very strong against new players and mediocre against experienced players.

What? These are a total nerf into the ground. Also this has to be based on nothing but a D/D thief. I don’t run a D/D thief my CnD doesn’t hit for more than 1.5k on crit my Mug hits for about the same a little bit more like 1.7k. My clusterbomb is lol laugh at me damage. Mug as a knockdown or knockback is redundant with bask venom and or devourer but yea sure. Mug a knockdown tied with devourer and bask venom ok.

There is no way you thought any of of your proposed nerfs through at all. Yea thats all not thought through at all. Also its based on WvW. Where 99% of these complaints come from.

If you want to offer a good suggestion against the thief how about you think umm PvE,sPvP, and WvW. Then you would at least be doing half of what a real balance team would be doing. Offering silly suggestions based on 1 game mode (the one you probably play the most is silly)

I’m not suggesting to implement them all. They’re just loose suggestions, if 1 of them would be implemented in wvw, it could help fix things. Implementing more than one of them that affect the same aspects of a thief would already be broken.

Yes they’re based on D/D thief, because that’s what I play. I’m not going to suggest nerfs for builds that I don’t know well. Yes they’re based on WvW, because once again, I don’t know spvp well enough to make suggestions on that. As for pve, I think we’re in a good place and don’t need any more nerfs/buffs.
Anet should consider letting WvW count as a seperate game mode instead of treating it like pve.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

XII.9401:

If you don’t state your opinion and complaints in this game you will keep getting trolled by thieves.

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That sounds like broken mechanics. The majority have spoken. If people thought the thief class was ok..this thread wouldn’t be this long.

And if I don’t stand up, this thread will continue to get trolled by QQ because you can’t learn to play.

As far as the majority you claim, bull kitten.

All those that can’t deal with a thief, you need to learn to play. It isn’t that hard to counter. If thieves were all that you people actually claimed, I wouldn’t be thinking about a warrior or guardian.

ANet is doing a fine job at balancing. They have listened to the complaints of what is wrong with the class and are working to address those issues. Hopefully, pistol gets a little bit more love.

QQ and learn to play is a completely valid argument for dealing with invisible people that hit as hard or harder than any other class and are able to disappear whenever they want – you’re just scared of having your god-mode turned off. Something needs to change – If A-net aren’t capable of fixing the stealth/rendering bug then they will need to change something else.

Thieves are all over WvW now, my guild mates are re-rolling thieves – it’s ridiculous.

What’s disappointing is that there are some players of thieves that can’t look at this subject objectively and admit there is a problem.

I’m not suggesting wholesale nerfing of the class. I don’t even have an issue with the DPS, but something about the stealth & escape needs to change for the good of the game.

Imperator totius Sylvari.9164:

Rifle warriors in WvW…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLTzyn6CGHw&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Backstab needs a buff if anything… maybe a 20% damage increase all it does is single target damage…, I have yet to see 26.9k damage on under leveled players using the backstab combo in WvW and whilst still having piercing damage…. and its not only killshot that hits like a truck, you have Volley which pulls of nice numbers.

And the funny part , none of them are realy OP .In fact both of them are bad builds but whenever people see big numbers their brain shut down.

Avigrus.2871:

Thieves are all over WvW now, my guild mates are re-rolling thieves – it’s ridiculous.

What’s disappointing is that there are some players of thieves that can’t look at this subject objectively and admit there is a problem.

If there is a problem,it’s not a thief problem,but gear stat problem.The fact that in WvW some people are terribly undergeared and the fact that in WvW max crit dmg % cap is higher has nothing to do with Backstab.
Also in TPvP where armors are equal and ppl know what they are doing i don’t see many thieves at all.Infact Thief isn’t much wanted.The bunker builds are required there+mesmer for portal.Rest is optional.If you are good spike thief,then OK,but you might as well be good Burst Warrior(you will have 8k more HP).

Here comes some of the issues i noticed while focusing on Shortbow for a while. This is based in WvW gameplay.

First of all and most noticeable:

The range, 900 range in autoattack makes keep sieges and defends extremly dull. While cluster bomb is really really nice it´s not really spamable at long range which most of the times leaves the thief to the risk of getting at 900 and risking dead or being a dead weight and spam cluster bomb now and then. Same goes for Big Battles.

Besides the fact of every other class having a 1200 or even 1500 range weapon which leaves the thieves even in worse situation.

Second:

Lack of trait depth. Shortbow only has one direct trait which is really mediocre and misplaced. 5% more damage is utterly bad and not worth it at all. Besides the fact that is placed under the shadow arts tree which makes no sense at all. Acrobatics or even trickery would fit way better.

A solution, Change power shots for a +300 range trait on shortbow (IA not affected since it would be kittenedly OP), change it to acrobatics trait line and change places with:

-Adept tier:

Fleet shadow for the new trait.

Fleet shadow makes more sense in the shadow arts line since it is a steal related trait.

or

-Master tier:

Pain response for the new trait.

That is pretty much it, making this would solve 2 issues at once, the lack of range and the lack of shortbow based builds.

I love how everyone that complains conveniently has a “thief alt” that they roll everyone with in WvW without even reaching cap.

I’d love to see videos of the next person (or any) to make this claim (and not highlight reels), but I know that’s not going to happen.

Not that I don’t believe any of this to be utterly false, mind you, but merely because they haven’t the wits to hit the record button with all of the 1-shot awesomeness they are bearing witness too.

Awestruck, I’m sure…

they are stupidly overpowered, i have a few thiefs in my guild that can decimate a 15-20 man zerg between them. i saw 1 in particular today jump the walls at hills in wvw and fought 8 guys at least dropping them to the downed state and continuing to go through the rest in his way as peeps were jumping the walls to finish them off, so tell me that aint OP. A “Tank” or “Bunker” build cant even do this so why can a class thats pure dmg take a grp of guys all targeting him and still get the better of them. IMO they need a reduction in dmg dealt.

and in reply to the guy above asking for evidence he needs to scour you tube there’s plenty on there

Pestilence.3184:

they are stupidly overpowered, i have a few thiefs in my guild that can decimate a 15-20 man zerg between them. i saw 1 in particular today jump the walls at hills in wvw and fought 8 guys at least dropping them to the downed state and continuing to go through the rest in his way as peeps were jumping the walls to finish them off, so tell me that aint OP. A “Tank” or “Bunker” build cant even do this so why can a class thats pure dmg take a grp of guys all targeting him and still get the better of them. IMO they need a reduction in dmg dealt.

and in reply to the guy above asking for evidence he needs to scour you tube there’s plenty on there

We only need evidence for outlandish claims such as yours.

LOCO.1785:

Pestilence.3184:

they are stupidly overpowered, i have a few thiefs in my guild that can decimate a 15-20 man zerg between them. i saw 1 in particular today jump the walls at hills in wvw and fought 8 guys at least dropping them to the downed state and continuing to go through the rest in his way as peeps were jumping the walls to finish them off, so tell me that aint OP. A “Tank” or “Bunker” build cant even do this so why can a class thats pure dmg take a grp of guys all targeting him and still get the better of them. IMO they need a reduction in dmg dealt.

and in reply to the guy above asking for evidence he needs to scour you tube there’s plenty on there

We only need evidence for outlandish claims such as yours.

I keep posting them. Check my posts. Pics, Videos etc. I encourage everyone to post screenshots and videos displaying the broken mechanics.

And for a previous thief poster: Stop using the gear difference in wvw as a crutch for why thieves are imbalanced.

The main issues are entering and leaving fights -repeatedly- on a thieve’s terms. Have you seen a warrior rush a group of 3-4 people? How about A necro?A ranger? No..Know why? Because they don’t have a broken mechanic that lets them get away like a thief. Worst broken stealth mechanics in any game so far.

If your a glass cannon you should be punished if you miss your chance..not rewarded by allowing you to repeat the attempt repeatedly unhampered.
You should have only one chance to initiate the fight stealthed -and be thankful for that since no other class in the game can do that- and nothing else after it. If you don’t know how to use that already unfair advantage to win, then guess what..you were relying on broken mechanics to win.
Be like the rest of us..you don’t see necros and rangers leaving the fight when it goes bad unscathed then coming after you without you being able to stop their opener unopposed.

Rezzing while stealthed: I can’t even see the person I want to stomp. So if my AOE CC -assuming I have one- is down or I don’t have one like the majority of the classes I wait for the thief to rez him? What kinda crap is that where the downed target disappears?

The issues are so many and they don’t have anything to do with the so called imbalance in stats in wvw that only thief players see someone mentioning then repeat it without thinking. Most of the fighting happens away from forts so no bonus. There is no orb bonus. Consumable buffs..I’m sure that’s whats causing the over the top damage..nah. We all have exotic gear..not hard to get.. and a lot of us are 80..any lowbie with a shred of sense knows he/she has to eat it till they gear up and hit 80 so the complaints aren’t from them.

If the thief class was ok..then why do we see this thread 23 pages long and growing filled with complaints and no similar ones in any other class forums? Sheekitten’s a petition now..

XII.9401:

I keep posting them. Check my posts. Pics, Videos etc. I encourage everyone to post screenshots and videos displaying the broken mechanics.

XII, I’ve seen your so called evidence.

The picture where you were hit 8 times and you claimed it all happened in 2 seconds, which is impossible because the guy used TWO C&Ds in his combo.

All you’ve proven is you’re a complete liar.

We only need evidence for outlandish claims such as yours.[/quote]

I keep posting them. Check my posts. Pics, Videos etc. I encourage everyone to post screenshots and videos displaying the broken mechanics.

And for a previous thief poster: Stop using the gear difference in wvw as a crutch for why thieves are imbalanced.

The main issues are entering and leaving fights -repeatedly- on a thieve’s terms. Have you seen a warrior rush a group of 3-4 people? How about A necro?A ranger? No..Know why? Because they don’t have a broken mechanic that lets them get away like a thief. Worst broken stealth mechanics in any game so far.

If your a glass cannon you should be punished if you miss your chance..not rewarded by allowing you to repeat the attempt repeatedly unhampered.
You should have only one chance to initiate the fight stealthed -and be thankful for that since no other class in the game can do that- and nothing else after it. If you don’t know how to use that already unfair advantage to win, then guess what..you were relying on broken mechanics to win.
Be like the rest of us..you don’t see necros and rangers leaving the fight when it goes bad unscathed then coming after you without you being able to stop their opener unopposed.

Rezzing while stealthed: I can’t even see the person I want to stomp. So if my AOE CC -assuming I have one- is down or I don’t have one like the majority of the classes I wait for the thief to rez him? What kinda crap is that where the downed target disappears?

The issues are so many and they don’t have anything to do with the so called imbalance in stats in wvw that only thief players see someone mentioning then repeat it without thinking. Most of the fighting happens away from forts so no bonus. There is no orb bonus. Consumable buffs..I’m sure that’s whats causing the over the top damage..nah. We all have exotic gear..not hard to get.. and a lot of us are 80..any lowbie with a shred of sense knows he/she has to eat it till they gear up and hit 80 so the complaints aren’t from them.

If the thief class was ok..then why do we see this thread 23 pages long and growing filled with complaints and no similar ones in any other class forums? Sheekitten’s a petition now..
[/quote]

dont forget the ability to stealth finish a player in a downed state that goes for ele mist form finishers too.

To be honest I am surprised Anet has allowed this kind of discrepency to go on for as long as it has. The developers have created a culture of dependency for the thief fan-bois to the extent that if Anet were to nerf-to-balance the profession now they risk losing players. Of course, they already appear to be in many cases specifically because of this profession. So it’s a no win situation either way.