Guild Wars 2

Brutalistik.6473:

Daecollo.9578:

Hundred Blades deals 1224 more damage then backstab does.

Kill Shot also does more damage then backstab does if you add in the 3% damage from burst tree, even more if you take into account burst traits… Kill Shot can also pierce and hit an infinite number of targets.

You want to know what kill shot and hundred blades don’t have?

Stealth and teleports…

be happy we thieves can escape the damage.

And warriors get 8k more life and 13.8% armor, meaning you can take 80%+ more damage. Don’t get me wrong, I think the warrior needs some more mobility but they definitely need their damage lowered. Also who thought giving some classes more armor and health was a good idea? There is zero logical explanation as to why the warrior gets 8k more health and more armor than an elementalist or thief, they all go into melee with a melee build. They should have just given everyone base stats with no difference then given armor types a pro and a con IE heavy armor lets you take more damage but reduces run speed. That would certainly boost the number of builds.

Brutalistik.6473:

Daecollo.9578:

Hundred Blades deals 1224 more damage then backstab does.

Kill Shot also does more damage then backstab does if you add in the 3% damage from burst tree, even more if you take into account burst traits… Kill Shot can also pierce and hit an infinite number of targets.

You want to know what kill shot and hundred blades don’t have?

Stealth and teleports…

be happy we thieves can escape the damage.

Don’t talk about thieves this way. It only makes you look ignorant…and clueless.

It’s like me saying…hey…you want to know what stealth and teleports don’t have?…invulnerability…be happy we warriors can completely negate damage while face tanking and dealing out as much, if not more burst damage than thieves (in AoE too).

…and yes, I have a thief, and yes, I also have warrior. I play my warrior MORE often than my thief (mainly because of the nerf trends that I’ve observed so far…that lead me to believe that thief is going to be a waste of time). The class offers A LOT more than thief. It’s also A LOT more versatile and devastating in PvP.

If I had to rate my recent playtime of each character on a scale…I’d say, it goes: Ele-War-Guard for top 3. As per rating effectiveness in PvP, I’d say it’s easily Ele-Mes-Guard-War for top 4.

I hope the nerf bat is not too bad for us :-( I love to play this toon and have been a thief since day one. Its the only toon I care to play- im STILL happy. I have played stealth classes since DAoC and this thief is my fave. When I lvld I was d/d and relied on DB a lot. When I hit 80 and went to WvW or sPVP I learned real quick that it took me too long to kill. I run with a small pvp guild and I felt a bit weak running d/d condition build. So I changed to more of a burst build d/d BS. I can kill quicker and have a chance in WvW as long as I dont run into the middle of large battle :-) I love how you can change this class to play completely different.

For those who qq about Heart Seeker… WTH else am I supposed to do after my initial burst and I need to drop someone fast with little initiative? Use DB instead???? maybe switch to SB and drop CB’s ?? Give me a break lol.

Thieves can easily 1v1 any class that IS NOT played well or just mediocre but, those people who are alert and know how to play their class it is not easy and can be very challenging.

Fix the stealth issue and a lot of the qq will go away IMO- pvp speaking. But please, please, please do not make us a high-bread kitten tanky class and ruin the Thief.

Seems this thread is becoming more of a QQ from people who hate thiefs rather than thiefs giving feedback on the class :P

Cornholio.1567:

Seems this thread is becoming more of a QQ from people who hate thiefs rather than thiefs giving feedback on the class :P

Guess you don’t visit the Thief subforum often. This entire board is a QQfest.

Cornholio.1567:

Seems this thread is becoming more of a QQ from people who hate thiefs rather than thiefs giving feedback on the class :P

You bet it is.I have only one thing to say(Quote actually):

Mediocrities everywhere,i absolve you! I absolve you! I absolve you!

Cornholio.1567:

Seems this thread is becoming more of a QQ from people who hate thiefs rather than thiefs giving feedback on the class :P

And what can you expect from crying kids who dont know play their class. They was defeated by some thief and now need to cry here on forum and hope that Anet nerf thief so they can kill thief more easily with their poor play style. I dont know why they created this topic here. They should have known that it become QQ topic instead of feedback on the class. Thief IS NOT OP omg, kids!!!!

Runcore.5107:

Cornholio.1567:

Seems this thread is becoming more of a QQ from people who hate thiefs rather than thiefs giving feedback on the class :P

And what can you expect from crying kids who dont know play their class. They was defeated by some thief and now need to cry here on forum and hope that Anet nerf thief so they can kill thief more easily with their poor play style. I dont know why they created this topic here. They should have known that it become QQ topic instead of feedback on the class. Thief IS NOT OP omg, kids!!!!

Actually it was created exactly with that purpose.To concentrate all the QQ/anti-QQ fiesta in one mega-topic.It doesn’t work thou.There will always be some guy,who feels he need special attention,or that he have something revolutionary important to say,so it deserves a fresh topic.

Taldren.7523:

Tulisin.6945:

Taldren.7523:

The Thief PP/PD build needs to be majorly toned down. They never spend more than 50% of the time out of stealth and every time they enter stealth they remove conditions and heal.

That seems…unlikely, considering that P/P doesn’t have organic stealth.

Ok … so I made a quick movie to prove exactly how wrong you are …

http://youtu.be/v9gjTEFOg0s

Wish all arguments were as easy to win.

i hate to burst your bubble, because you made a nifty little video and all, but i kinda have to at this point. see, i only had to watch 42 seconds of this, to see your problem. the timer starts at 18. the thief initially stealths at 21. if you pause it exactly at 23 (before you spin the camera away from him), he’s visible. you leave the camera facing in the wrong direction until 27, where he’s already visible when you spin it back. he stealths again at 29, and can be seen again at 31. he uses steal at 34 to be standing directly at his target. stealth at 38. spiked the guy at 42. essentially, you missed seeing well over HALF of the times he appeared, and claim the thief to be the problem.

if you’re going to present video evidence to prove a point, the video evidence you present shouldn’t do the exact opposite of that. also, spinning the camera into the complete opposite direction of the fight to try to make it seem like he was in stealth longer than he actually was doesn’t help your case either. also note that the sylvari necro completely ignored the thief when he went into stealth, and started attacking the summons……. EXACTLY like the NPC monsters do. she also didn’t move AT ALL the entire time, unless you count her getting scorpion wired by the summon in the very beginning. not exactly tough competition there. so….. she played poorly and lost. cry me a freakin’ river.

the little asura thief does a MUCH better job. he doesn’t stand there like a goon. he MOVES around the whole fight. when your P/D thief stealth, you can clearly see the little asura thief throwing out auto-attacks. he also focuses fairly exclusively on the P/D thief. he makes a momentary mistake and attacks the summon, but quickly corrects himself and backs off, resuming focus on the P/D thief. and 2 FULL minutes later when you fade to black, the little guy is still going at it with the P/D thief. he played considerably better. and NONE of it had to do with his profession, weapons, or build. just his movement and targeting choices.

i’m sorry to have spoiled your video. i’m sure you put a lot of work into it trying to frame the thief and all, but you made it far too easy. kinda like that sylvari necro did for the P/D thief.

Are you really so much jealous that you must find every advantage on thief class and try cry for nerf, omg? Are you really so great noobs with your own classes that you must cry for thief nerf 24 hours per day? Im tired of reading here every day these QQ topic started by kids which was one time defeated by some thief. Its not thief problem that you are noob players and cannot play your choosen class.

I see this strategy on all games, lets recapitulate it:

1) first some kid choose one class and expect that he/she will be best super killer on whole server and can kill whole army of enemies alone
2) the kid meet some other player which is more experienced and play his/her character very good and is better than our kid
3) the good player defeat our kid
4) the kid has rendezvous with true reality that he/she is not best on server
5) the kid say “Its not possible. Im best killer ever, i can kill everybody. This class who defeated me must be OP”
6) the kid go to forum and start QQ topic where whimper and cry for nerf of this “OP” class and our kid become “crying kid”
7) it is only one example of one kid which “Im best killer on world” dream is destroyed so we must multiply this example with number of all “dream destroyed” children on game and we have tons of crying children on forum.
8) and catastrophe is when developers of game dance how these children play and do all what they cry for. Now we have tons of crying children on forum + ruined and useless classes on game.
9) now, when crying children have what they wanted and one good class is totally ruined and useless for playing they continue on playing and are happy that they removed one class which endangered them.
10) some time later, one beautiful day they meet another good player who defeat our children
….now continue reading on point 4) This process is neverending story.

When this process happen again and again we have here all or majority of ruined and useless classes which mean that whole game is ruined and almost unplayable OR one we have here one strong class which is played by all players and other classes are forgotten.

This is process and good way how destroy one good game with great potential. Think about it you crying children!!! You dont ruin only one class but whole game for all players. And same for developers: think about it what you do to your game!!! By ruining one class you start chain reaction which lead to desctruction of whole game, your game and your source of money.

There are not unbalanced classes but only unbalanced players.

there’s two groups of players that have opinions on the thief. The mediocre (or bad) players and the good (responsive) players. First group will hate thiefs, and QQ until they get nerf. Second group will understand the mechanisms, etc. That group knows how to escape a thief attack, and will most of the times manage to do so.

Main problem is that mediocre (or bad) players who hate thieves and QQ until they get nerf are 85% and only 15% understand mechanism and know how escape thief attacks…etc. First group still think that thief can kill group of players but true is that thief can fight only against one another player or maybe two players if they are noobs with no gear and low level (WvW). Thief is 1vs1 character so he is good on 1vs1 fights but against more players he is bad and better opponents can kill thief very easily in 2-3 seconds thx to low HP of thief and no defence skills. These ppl who still QQ dont understand what assassin/thief/rogue class mean on games.

Another thing regarding PVE and the Thief class:

This is especially true as you move further along into FotM or some of the harder dungeons, thieves should be put into the middle (or even the top) base HP tier (15k base instead of 10.8k), since there is no natural (passive) thief evasion in this game, and since there is no armor suplying power, precision and vit together, thieves are most of the time dead meat if they do not dodge in time (or are out of endurance), since many of the boss melee attacks in the game are pbaoe (so it doesnt matter if youre standing behind the target), ive had a lot of situations when i was forced to go ranged (and it sucks) just because I couldnt outheal the damage i was taking in melee range (FotM Colossus dungeon boss has one very nasty attack if youre melee).

It makes no sense that the only classes in the middle base HP tier are ranged classes by default (dodging stuff in ranged is a lot easier, since there is projectile travel time, and also its easier to concentrate on dodging stuff when youre in ranged mode since youre not moving around as much as when in melee).

Thief & Pistol

Vital Shot
Issue: This ability fires to slowly and within a limited range, it is not “engaging” and feels awkward to use
Suggestion A: Adjust to be a flurry attack, slightly increase range
Suggestion B: Adjust cast time to 1/4, slightly increase range

Unload
Issue: In general this ability lacks damage and utility in comparison to other skills
Suggestion: Add additional flurry attacks and/or reduce initiative cost by 1-2 points

Headshot
Issue: This ability is very situational and is highly ignored by the average thief.
Suggestion: Reduce Initiative cost by 1 and/or add the confusion condition

Black-Powder & Body Shot
Issue: Pistol thieves lack a viable stealth ability for Dungeon PvE. Also, the Pistol/Pistol combo should be more dynamic and interactive.
Suggestion: (Self-combo) Smoke Field > Blast Finisher > Stealthed > Sneak Attack
*Rename Body Shot “Blast Shot”
*Blast Shot retains vulnerability effect
*Blast Shot is now a Blast Finisher
*When Blast Shot is fired from a Smoke Field (black-powder), the Thief enters stealth
*Adjust initiative costs appropriately

Shadow Strike
Issue: This ability does little damage compared to alternative attacks
Suggestion: This ability now applies several seconds of confusion to the targeted opponent

Shadow Shot
Issue: This ability does little damage compared to alternative attacks
Suggestion: Increase damage or reduce initiative cost by 1

Hika.1264:

Thief & Pistol

Vital Shot
Issue: This ability fires to slowly and within a limited range, it is not “engaging” and feels awkward to use
Suggestion A: Adjust to be a flurry attack, slightly increase range
Suggestion B: Adjust cast time to 1/4, slightly increase range

Unload
Issue: In general this ability lacks damage and utility in comparison to other skills
Suggestion: Add additional flurry attacks and/or reduce initiative cost by 1-2 points

Headshot
Issue: This ability is very situational and is highly ignored by the average thief.
Suggestion: Reduce Initiative cost by 1 and/or add the confusion condition

Blinding Powder & Body Shot
Issue: Pistol thieves lack a viable stealth ability for Dungeon PvE. Also, the Pistol/Pistol combo should be more dynamic and interactive.
Suggestion: (Self-combo) Smoke Field > Blast Finisher > Stealthed > Sneak Attack
*Rename Body Shot “Blast Shot”
*Blast Shot retains vulnerability effect
*Blast Shot is now a Blast Finisher
*When Blast Shot is fired from a Smoke Field (blinding powder), the Thief enters stealth
*Adjust initiative costs appropriately

Shadow Strike
Issue: This ability does little damage compared to alternative attacks
Suggestion: This ability now applies several seconds of confusion to the targeted opponent

Shadow Shot
Issue: This ability does little damage compared to alternative attacks
Suggestion: Increase damage or reduce initiative cost by 1

Yes, agree. P/P build need some rework and main rework need Unload. Unload need more damage and less initiative cost. Now from Unload thief has less damage for high cost so thief use 2x Unload and initiative is out. It need rework with all other pistol skill which are most time useless and very weak on combats. And its not only my opinion (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Tired-of-seeing-P-P-in-groups) – there is visible that more ppl see it. P/P is not useful and more ppl think that pistols should be little buffed to be more useful on combats.

ZLE.8293:

Runcore.5107:

Cornholio.1567:

Seems this thread is becoming more of a QQ from people who hate thiefs rather than thiefs giving feedback on the class :P

And what can you expect from crying kids who dont know play their class. They was defeated by some thief and now need to cry here on forum and hope that Anet nerf thief so they can kill thief more easily with their poor play style. I dont know why they created this topic here. They should have known that it become QQ topic instead of feedback on the class. Thief IS NOT OP omg, kids!!!!

Actually it was created exactly with that purpose.To concentrate all the QQ/anti-QQ fiesta in one mega-topic.It doesn’t work thou.There will always be some guy,who feels he need special attention,or that he have something revolutionary important to say,so it deserves a fresh topic.

The biggest issue in wvwvw is the burst + stealth + culling issue and that is a bug, getting thieves unfairly treated by people who got unfairly killed by something they never even saw. Because there is no dedicated thread on the wvwvw page on the culling issue anymore, players who fall victim to it, come here.

There should be 2 threads : one for making suggestions about the rogue class and balance issues, and one “stealth + burst + culling bug = problem” on the wvwvw page. Else this thread will grow to 50 pages and people will keep asking for unwarranted nerfs (because they only play wvwvw, never s-pvp) and be replied to with : l2p

MISC

• The Thief needs more abilities which use the “Flurry” attack style where damage is spread through several consecuative attacks rather than one big attack
• The Thief needs effective condition removal abilities for non-stealth builds

Signet of Malice
Issue: Without using a stealth build the Thief lacks effective condition removal. Click-activating this ability has little to no reward worth the risk of loosing life-taps.
Suggestion: When Signet of Malice is click-activated, poison + bleeding conditions are removed and you deal moderate damage to a selected opponent

Withdraw
Issue: The Thief lacks effective condition removal. This heal is very engaging to use but quite situational.
Suggestion: Activating this “roll & evade” ability should additionaly remove the burning condition, now break stun and have a slightly increased heal amount

Withdraw should work with traits that are dodges, and withdraw should move to where your looking, making it better for getting away, currently its hard to use for running around because when you wanna get out and heal your first instinct, especially in this game is to turn around and run, but if you turn around and use withdraw, it rolls you towards what you don’t want to be by.. LOL

Daecollo.9578:

Withdraw should work with traits that are dodges, and withdraw should move to where your looking, making it better for getting away, currently its hard to use for running around because when you wanna get out and heal your first instinct, especially in this game is to turn around and run, but if you turn around and use withdraw, it rolls you towards what you don’t want to be by.. LOL

Great suggestions for the dodge traits and directional rolling

This has reminded me of an issue regarding Disabling Shot.

Disabling Shot
Issue: With a recent change this ability now causes your character to leap away from the selected opponent. The issue is that the leap forward mechanic only works when you have an opponent selected. If you are moving forward and use disabling shot without a target, your character fires and leap backwards. There is also an issue where when you are standing toe-to-toe with your opponent you often have no idea which direction you will evade to when using this ability.

Suggestion: The leaping mechanics of this ability should be solely based on the current direction your character is moving and not whether your opponent is behind/in front of you.

I believe that addressing this issue with Disabling Shot would open up the possibility of making Infiltrator’s Arrow more combat-effective without hurting the Thief’s roaming and gap-closing capabilities.

Infiltrator’s Arrow
Issue: This ability is essentially non-combat effective for any purpose other than a shortcut shadow-step and a high cost gap closer.

Suggestion:

• Suggestion A: Add a smoke field effect and reduce initiative cost by 1
• Suggestion B: Add a condition removal effect and reduce initiative cost by 1
• While in combat, this ability offers a follow up 0 initiative “shadow-return” ability

Hika.1264:

• The Thief needs effective condition removal abilities for non-stealth builds

Infiltrator’s Strike. Signet of Agility. Shadowstep. 2/3 of your heals. You’re really not lacking in options, in my view.

Hika.1264:

Signet of Malice
Issue: Without using a stealth build the Thief lacks effective condition removal. Click-activating this ability has little to no reward worth the risk of loosing life-taps.
Suggestion: When Signet of Malice is click-activated, poison + bleeding conditions are removed and you deal moderate damage to a selected opponent

This is exactly like the Warrior’s Healing Signet. Both aren’t usually worth popping except in emergencies… until you pile on the traits. With traits in two very good lines, SoM is 2 initiative and a decent-duration vigor every 12 seconds.

Hika.1264:

Withdraw
Issue: The Thief lacks effective condition removal. This heal is very engaging to use but quite situational.
Suggestion: Activating this “roll & evade” ability should additionaly remove the burning condition, now break stun and have a slightly increased heal amount

Now you’re just asking for easy mode. Withdraw is excellent as-is.

The thief currently has three good healing skills that excel in different situations. Two of them have amazingly short cooldowns. Two of them have excellent secondary characteristics that make them more like a fourth utility skill than just a heal.

My Feedback:
1.Corrosive traps could/should be merged with Master Trapper in acrobatics. The separation isn’t needed.
2. Get rid of Improvisation
3. Get rid of Fleet of Shadows.
Initial Strikes felt like filler from day one.

I would like to say I am happy, but I’m not.
Fix culling and then balance stealth once that is done.
Culling is one of the bigger issues in regards to stealth, especially when an huge zerg is stealth without the use of any class skills.
Break culling first, not class skills.

The contested capture point.
As it was too easy for a thief (or another class with stealth skill) to hide and stall a capture in such a large area – nerf their effectiveness?
An alternative wouldve been to reduce the area that could be contested, reducing the places to hide – thief stealth does not equate to undetectable invulnerability, just hard to find but still killable.
As some of my core skills cant be used to affect an enemy capture can we expect some of the major skills of all classes to be just as ineffective in the same situation?

Sorry all for being so negative about this.
It may nearly be time I left such a “beautiful looking” game.

Feedback:
I don’t think any thief should be able to kill anyone in less than 2 sec. Before you start flaming me, I’m a tanky elem with full exotic gear with toughness and vitality. I have scarified a lot of power and Precision for survivability and I still get 2 shot’ed. If I was using my Power, crit and precision gear it would have been a one shot kill. I’ll even post a screenshot to prove it. So yes something needs to be done with a Thief’s C&D and BS. Getting hit for 11k+ in one hit is outrages with 2600 armor. Now if I was using my full excoitc glass canon armor that would have been a one shot kill.

Hunt.1925:

Feedback:
I don’t think any thief should be able to kill anyone in less than 2 sec. Before you start flaming me, I’m a tanky elem with full exotic gear with toughness and vitality. I have scarified a lot of power and Precision for survivability and I still get 2 shot’ed. If I was using my Power, crit and precision gear it would have been a one shot kill. I’ll even post a screenshot to prove it. So yes something needs to be done with a Thief’s C&D and BS. Getting hit for 11k+ in one hit is outrages with 2600 armor. Now if I was using my full excoitc glass canon armor that would have been a one shot kill.

Numbers like that are only possible in world vs world vs world, sPvP has limited crit damage bonus.

They’ve already said WvWvW isn’t the focus of their balancing for obvious reasons.

Alice.8694:

Hunt.1925:

Feedback:
I don’t think any thief should be able to kill anyone in less than 2 sec. Before you start flaming me, I’m a tanky elem with full exotic gear with toughness and vitality. I have scarified a lot of power and Precision for survivability and I still get 2 shot’ed. If I was using my Power, crit and precision gear it would have been a one shot kill. I’ll even post a screenshot to prove it. So yes something needs to be done with a Thief’s C&D and BS. Getting hit for 11k+ in one hit is outrages with 2600 armor. Now if I was using my full excoitc glass canon armor that would have been a one shot kill.

Numbers like that are only possible in world vs world vs world, sPvP has limited crit damage bonus.

They’ve already said WvWvW isn’t the focus of their balancing for obvious reasons.

sPvP is gear capped basically at the optimal level for game balance. In WvW it’s just crazy the amount of damage people can put out. You’ll be full HP and downed in seconds before you know what hit you regardless of how much armor you’re packing.

Haste is really a big contributor to the burst problems right now.

Hunt.1925:

Feedback:
I don’t think any thief should be able to kill anyone in less than 2 sec. Before you start flaming me, I’m a tanky elem with full exotic gear with toughness and vitality. I have scarified a lot of power and Precision for survivability and I still get 2 shot’ed. If I was using my Power, crit and precision gear it would have been a one shot kill. I’ll even post a screenshot to prove it. So yes something needs to be done with a Thief’s C&D and BS. Getting hit for 11k+ in one hit is outrages with 2600 armor. Now if I was using my full excoitc glass canon armor that would have been a one shot kill.

1: How do we know this screenshot is from BEFORE or AFTER the massive AS nerf?…or that you didn’t change your armour AFTER dying, BEFORE taking the screenshot? This applies to EVERYONE posting these screenshots and complaining.

2: You saw a thief coming at you as a tank ele, and you died…to a BS thief nonetheless, who most probably had 12~14k HP tops. I think this tells us something else. I’m sure you know what I’m referring to.

3: I can’t remember the last time I died to a BS thief 1v1 (especially one that I saw coming at me) when playing my D/D Ele…especially in sPvP…where the damage is significantly lower due to half the critical damage.

Hunt.1925:

Feedback:
I don’t think any thief should be able to kill anyone in less than 2 sec. Before you start flaming me, I’m a tanky elem with full exotic gear with toughness and vitality. I have scarified a lot of power and Precision for survivability and I still get 2 shot’ed. If I was using my Power, crit and precision gear it would have been a one shot kill. I’ll even post a screenshot to prove it. So yes something needs to be done with a Thief’s C&D and BS. Getting hit for 11k+ in one hit is outrages with 2600 armor. Now if I was using my full excoitc glass canon armor that would have been a one shot kill.

Sorry to go off topic, but how is that your third screen cap? The game’s been out for several months now, seems fishy to me. >_O

Kurow.6973:

1: How do we know this screenshot is from BEFORE or AFTER the massive AS nerf?…or that you didn’t change your armour AFTER dying, BEFORE taking the screenshot? This applies to EVERYONE posting these screenshots and complaining.

You know, I don’t think the thief is overpowered or anything, but honestly. Look at the screenshot. You can see the marker for the donation person on the map, and the “!” for the Black Lion Trading Post.

It’s clear that this screenshot was made post-Lost Shores.

CC Charles.3675:

Hello everyone,

Due to the amount of threads about thief and its gameplay impact, we have decided to open this thread in which you can discuss your concerns about Thieves in PvE, sPvP and WvW.

This will allow us to collect your feedback with more efficiency and forward them to the appropriate teams.

You can articulate both, positive and negative feedback for it, but we ask you to stay constructive and polite when you want to express your opinion, all posts that break the forum code of conduct will be removed.

Thank you!

This would be really nice for all Professions but what do I know….

thieves burst damage is WAY TOO HIGH more than any other class in this game by a mile! that mixed with the fact it all happens before the thief actually gets rendered is stupid. Its the reason people qre QQ’ing in every gw2 forum out there. They jump in and try their burst if it fails they stealth and reset cd and try again. Its lame.

The culling bug allows thieves to run riot in WvW

basically thieves need a rework, reduce the spike combo damage, give them more options (does ANY thief ever use the sword?), fix the culling issue.

give them one infiltrator arrow escape not two in a row, it allows them to escape any combat with ease. Most have the passive 25% speed boost in WvW anyway. mesmers don’t have 2 blinks, or warriors 2 dashes… no other classs can just pop two teleports instantly.

There is one issue you can fix immediately that will drastically lower negative thief sentiment. There is one specific gripe I hear about thief consistently.

Heartseeker, HEARTSEEKER, HEARTSEEKER

Seriously. Just get rid of Heartseeker spam and people will stop complaining about thief overnight. Even if you make it a stacked ability with 3 tiers and it is game breakingly more powerful than Heartseeker spam, as long as people no longer see HEARTSEEKER, HEARTSEEKER, HEARTSEEKER, followed by the rez button, you will no longer need sticky threads like this. 100% Guarantee.

-Backstab should cost int.
-If your attack from stealth is blocked/dodged you should lose stealth
-a player should not slowly fade into stealth when no longer stealthed.
-damaging a player from stealth should reveal yourself instantly, and THEN start the restealth cooldown
-taking damage while stealth should “blink”(but transparent) the player on and off but keeping them in stealth
-I would love to be able to use a 2hander sword.(like the shadowblade from DAOC!)

Ropes.8690:

I don’t know if these issues are specific to thieves or if underwater play is as disappointing on other characters as well, but I think it can be improved a lot.

Specific to thief I think – especially the lack of AoE.

I actually use my ranger to farm underwater – the pets are decent against underwater mobs and the piranha AoE (skill 3) on the spear gun is like an AoE version of Hunter’s Call. So very deadly.

I had a thief follow me into water when I used to play my ranger (in WvW) and I turned around shot him with piranhas and he paused, thought about it and then ran straight back for dry land

Warriors are very good at underwater farming with their AoE twirly move also.

I would like to see some more underwater skills other than just the venoms or signets. Apart from roll for initative, there’s no real useful skill.

The “quickness” skill I still do not understand, why not restore endurance rather than remove it completely and not regen?

Why do we lose our runspeed when hit (if you return fire, granted you’re in combat, but a mob just hitting you when you run past and keep running – why does that put me in combat and slow me down if my signet for 25pct movement speed is up?).

Thobek.1730:

thieves burst damage is WAY TOO HIGH more than any other class in this game by a mile! that mixed with the fact it all happens before the thief actually gets rendered is stupid. Its the reason people qre QQ’ing in every gw2 forum out there. They jump in and try their burst if it fails they stealth and reset cd and try again. Its lame.

The culling bug allows thieves to run riot in WvW

basically thieves need a rework, reduce the spike combo damage, give them more options (does ANY thief ever use the sword?), fix the culling issue.

give them one infiltrator arrow escape not two in a row, it allows them to escape any combat with ease. Most have the passive 25% speed boost in WvW anyway. mesmers don’t have 2 blinks, or warriors 2 dashes… no other classs can just pop two teleports instantly.

What class do you play, cause you clearly don’t play ALL the other classes.

Pretty much every single class is capable of the same burst as thief if specced that way.

Other classes get at least one gap closer that moves them MUCH farther than infiltrator’s arrow.

XiL.4318:

There is one issue you can fix immediately that will drastically lower negative thief sentiment. There is one specific gripe I hear about thief consistently.

Heartseeker, HEARTSEEKER, HEARTSEEKER

Seriously. Just get rid of Heartseeker spam and people will stop complaining about thief overnight. Even if you make it a stacked ability with 3 tiers and it is game breakingly more powerful than Heartseeker spam, as long as people no longer see HEARTSEEKER, HEARTSEEKER, HEARTSEEKER, followed by the rez button, you will no longer need sticky threads like this. 100% Guarantee.

False!

HS has already been massively nerfed. It’s already pathetically weak compared to how it was before. No one can kill anyone by simply spamming HS. If someone dies in a 1v1 to a thief spamming HS only, I’m sorry, but they’re TERRIBLE…and should probably reconsider trying to PvP before learning the basics of the game.

Thief has already received numerous nerfs to please the complaining community of bad players. However, you do not see a reduction in the number of complaints…do you? It’s because no matter what, you cannot please these people until the thief becomes a free kill at all instances for them.

testpig.5018:

-Backstab should cost int.
-If your attack from stealth is blocked/dodged you should lose stealth
-a player should not slowly fade into stealth when no longer stealthed.
-damaging a player from stealth should reveal yourself instantly, and THEN start the restealth cooldown
-taking damage while stealth should “blink”(but transparent) the player on and off but keeping them in stealth
-I would love to be able to use a 2hander sword.(like the shadowblade from DAOC!)

Backstab has the highest amount of conditions behind it. It does NOT need anymore.

There’s no reason to lose stealth if an attack is blocked or dodged. That makes no sense logically.

Thieves already lose stealth and are put on a 3 second restealth timer as soon as they attack from stealth. It already works this way. Have you even bothered trying to play a thief?

If any form of detection is added to stealth…it will not only make stealth much less viable as it is right now, but it will also require a much stronger form of stealth to be implemented…and that will create A LOT more complaints.

Steal mechanic still needs a look, with the trais its pretty descent but the base mechanic just adds flavor to the class. In group fights you can choose who to steal from ( in theory cause in practise you steal to kill and not for the item), but in 1v1 you dont have that kind of choice and the item you can steal from someone in pvp isnt always usefull, Also the stolen items are in majority useless in pve. I dont think othere classes need to relly so heavily on traits to compliment their class mechanic.

Also the initiative system needs some tweaking because it is much more constraining than cd system which was ok before the dmg nerfs. It also encourages you to only save initiative for 2 skills out of 5 and thus promoting narrow minded generic play. Moreover the conjuction of weapon skills that cost initiative and the utilities that use cds dont combine too well. I think they should make a low base initiative cost for all skills and a gradual increase in the initiative cost for each individual skill that is spammed in a specific time frame. I think that would allow a lot more liberty for the class.

I am playing Thief from the beginning.
And some nerfs where indeed nessecary and with others I have ? marks.
I have playing with 2 styles now,
and both are reduced in effectiveness quite alot.
Beginning with the Powerbuild.

Indeed burst can be extreme high but it depends also on some factors.
By nerfing it more I get the feeling it becomes a medium Squire/warrior type.
With stealth as no main vallue (traits not in it)
So thief is just an oppurtunist attacker and if not dead in 3 secs he has to leave the battlefield again for regaining health. (1kittenp)

Now the stealth spec.

By changing the real strong benefit of the thief by changing it spvp rules in capping you loose the vallue of saving time for others to stop the attacks. Especialy when on our server Outmanned is almost always on. Why not like suggested before make the area a bit smaller so that the effectiveness of stealth is still there? By introducing the new (nerf) stealth build becomes useless for small groups because by stealth trait you have alot of power burst loss. Fights are build on endurance and take more time. nice in 1vs 1 or 2. But wvw is almost never like that…. At least not on our server.

Also I want to add some issue regarding traits that still are quite useless or broken.
Pls fix this things first before changing or reducing thief even more. (many thread’s are already of this) For now i am starting to focus on other classes because thief is starting to become a average class that is loosing all the aspects that made them special.

ps. for all those people that even ask for more nerfs, ask next time if A-Net can delete the whole skillbar and that thief doesn’t have the ability to walk if encounter a enemy player. Because it looks that it will come that far, if not deleting the class totaly.

thx for reading A-Net

the stealth mode is a joke, more time on the “cant-be-stealth” debuff . (sorry cant remember the name I cant see it, the time is short on it…)

It seem, my trap do not enter him in combat…

http://youtu.be/7799to8aGcQ

I dont know if he’s hacking or not. But if is not, seriously that class and any class with stealth is really OP…

Piedplat.3597:

the stealth mode is a joke, more time on the “cant-be-stealth” debuff . (sorry cant remember the name I cant see it, the time is short on it…)

http://youtu.be/7799to8aGcQ

I dont know if he’s hacking or not. But if is not, seriously that class and any class with stealth is really OP…

The revealed debuff is 3 seconds and the stealth can go up to 3 seconds if you trait it. WvsWvsW is known to have the issue of not showing the target player right away. That is in fact a wvsw issue and not a class issue.

On another topic i think Cnd precast → steal into stealth should be changed so that using steal interrupts the casting of CnD.

Eodwen.2613:

Piedplat.3597:

the stealth mode is a joke, more time on the “cant-be-stealth” debuff . (sorry cant remember the name I cant see it, the time is short on it…)

http://youtu.be/7799to8aGcQ

I dont know if he’s hacking or not. But if is not, seriously that class and any class with stealth is really OP…

The revealed debuff is 3 seconds and the stealth can go up to 3 seconds if you trait it. WvsWvsW is known to have the issue of not showing the target player right away. That is in fact a wvsw issue and not a class issue.

^^This

Seriously ppl, don´t post this complain over and over again, it has been told a thousand times before, that this is not Stealth problem, but the server/rendering issue. Therefore it has nothing to do with the class or any other class with stealth abilities, got it?
Thanks for finally understanding this.

Eodwen.2613:

On another topic i think Cnd precast -> steal into stealth should be changed so that using steal interrupts the casting of CnD.

That´s obviously intended, other classes are using similar technique too, for example Churning Earth —> Lightning flash.

Dispari.3980:

For PvE only, my feedback would be that my thief is the least durable of all the characters I have. I have one of every class. I don’t have much ability to deal with groups or hard-hitting single targets. Which basically just means dealing with small groups of regular enemies.

Since thief has so few support abilities, my options for not dying pretty much just involve stealthing and running away, or spamming dodge skills. I don’t feel that the damage they do offsets their squishyness. Pretty much the safest and most viable build I found was to just go D/D and spam Death Blossom and do nothing else. It’s boring, and even then not as safe as basically any of my other characters.

No opinion on PvP..

Black Powder and Dagger Storm allow me to take on much larger numbers than I ever could on my warrior.

Only champions and certain weird dungeon mobs (like the grenade-spammers in CoE story mode) really give me pause.

STRanger.5120:

Eodwen.2613:

Piedplat.3597:

the stealth mode is a joke, more time on the “cant-be-stealth” debuff . (sorry cant remember the name I cant see it, the time is short on it…)

http://youtu.be/7799to8aGcQ

I dont know if he’s hacking or not. But if is not, seriously that class and any class with stealth is really OP…

The revealed debuff is 3 seconds and the stealth can go up to 3 seconds if you trait it. WvsWvsW is known to have the issue of not showing the target player right away. That is in fact a wvsw issue and not a class issue.

^^This

Seriously ppl, don´t post this complain over and over again, it has been told a thousand times before, that this is not Stealth problem, but the server/rendering issue. Therefore it has nothing to do with the class or any other class with stealth abilities, got it?
Thanks for finally understanding this.

My point is my trap didnt make him in combat, is frustrating, server or not.
3 sec is really short. I did nothing in this fight no skill in his part, wow I mean WOW.

Piedplat.3597:

My point is my trap didnt make him in combat, is frustrating, server or not.
3 sec is really short. I did nothing in this fight no skill in his part, wow I mean WOW.

What has the combat flag to do with stealth? At least in this game? This is now WoW, you know?

dear A-net

Even if we asked many times before, i am going to ask this again.
Buff the thief underwater !!!!
no deception skill underwater
no stealth
No elites underwater
Mediocre burst compared to other classes, even low
what you espect from thief to do underwater

The Spear 3 skill is awesome underwater. And if all else fails, skill 5 with heavy initiative regen build will save the day.

Rayya.2591:

dear A-net

Even if we asked many times before, i am going to ask this again.
Buff the thief underwater !!!!
no deception skill underwater
no stealth
No elites underwater
Mediocre burst compared to other classes, even low
what you espect from thief to do underwater

Hit number 5 on the spear repeatedly and pray the thing your fighting is stupid enough to stay put.

STRanger.5120:

Eodwen.2613:

Piedplat.3597:

the stealth mode is a joke, more time on the “cant-be-stealth” debuff . (sorry cant remember the name I cant see it, the time is short on it…)

http://youtu.be/7799to8aGcQ

I dont know if he’s hacking or not. But if is not, seriously that class and any class with stealth is really OP…

The revealed debuff is 3 seconds and the stealth can go up to 3 seconds if you trait it. WvsWvsW is known to have the issue of not showing the target player right away. That is in fact a wvsw issue and not a class issue.

^^This

Seriously ppl, don´t post this complain over and over again, it has been told a thousand times before, that this is not Stealth problem, but the server/rendering issue. Therefore it has nothing to do with the class or any other class with stealth abilities, got it?
Thanks for finally understanding this.

Acutally, the server/rendering issue is only 1/2 of the problem.

It is a stealth mechanic problem, or at least in my opinion. The reveal debuff only applies if the thief attacks from stealth regardless if the thief is in combat or not. You can CnD for 3 sec of stealth or 4 sec if traited, wait for stealth to end and CnD again for another 3-4 sec, then you can use Hide in the shadow for another 3-4 sec. By this time you have enough init for another CnD. (this is just an example as there are different combinations for extending stealth).

You add in server/rendering issue in WvW which gives thieves a .5-1 sec delay coming out of stealth…now you can see how frustrating it is to fight a thief.

Is it working as intend? Probably but I can’t say for certain. Maybe they will fix it where all stealth triggers reveal once it ends. Who knows. In the meantime, deal with it.

Sifu.6527:

STRanger.5120:

Eodwen.2613:

Piedplat.3597:

the stealth mode is a joke, more time on the “cant-be-stealth” debuff . (sorry cant remember the name I cant see it, the time is short on it…)

http://youtu.be/7799to8aGcQ

I dont know if he’s hacking or not. But if is not, seriously that class and any class with stealth is really OP…

The revealed debuff is 3 seconds and the stealth can go up to 3 seconds if you trait it. WvsWvsW is known to have the issue of not showing the target player right away. That is in fact a wvsw issue and not a class issue.

^^This

Seriously ppl, don´t post this complain over and over again, it has been told a thousand times before, that this is not Stealth problem, but the server/rendering issue. Therefore it has nothing to do with the class or any other class with stealth abilities, got it?
Thanks for finally understanding this.

Acutally, the server/rendering issue is only 1/2 of the problem.

It is a stealth mechanic problem, or at least in my opinion. The reveal debuff only applies if the thief attacks from stealth regardless if the thief is in combat or not. You can CnD for 3 sec of stealth or 4 sec if traited, wait for stealth to end and CnD again for another 3-4 sec, then you can use Hide in the shadow for another 3-4 sec. By this time you have enough init for another CnD. (this is just an example as there are different combinations for extending stealth).

You add in server/rendering issue in WvW which gives thieves a .5-1 sec delay coming out of stealth…now you can see how frustrating it is to fight a thief.

Is it working as intend? Probably but I can’t say for certain. Maybe they will fix it where all stealth triggers reveal once it ends. Who knows. In the meantime, deal with it.

i feel same way when i escaped from an combat with my downed stealth and pet / clones/npc hit me even if players don’t know i am there. How is that fair ?