Guild Wars 2

Let me preface this by saying this is more than likely going to be a rant, because I am beyond tired of reading/listening to people toss the word ‘cheese’ around every time they lose.

‘Cheese’ is a term used most commonly by scrubs who either A.) feel or act above using specific weapons/runesets/builds, etc. B.) don’t play to win

I have been called out on using ‘cheese’ setups on virtually every thief set/build imaginable. It literally does not matter I play. I will inevitably receive a group invite from some raging sourpuss, then listen to them call me cheese.

I ran a 10/0/0/30/30 S/D build that hit like a wet noodle in a lot of cases and still was called ‘Cheese.’

Currently my main cheese is the ever-so-popular P/D plexity thief. I’m sorry, but this is not cheese and never will be. Anyone who uses the P/D set as their ‘latest’ weapon set is either really new to thief or has been living in a box for the past 7-8 months. P/D has been one of/if not the thief’s strongest weapon set for most of this games existence. Even before the Shadow Strike buff, perplexity runes, etc. I’ve used P/D longer than I have D/P and that was even during the D/P ‘perma-stealth’ phase.

I’m sorry that when I play WvW I don’t want to play with an infinite amount of handicaps. Why? Because 90% of the time I am having to deal with the biggest handicap of fighting 1vX. Knowing that is more than likely going to happen I have built my toon to survive and outlast my opponents. It compliments my playstyle and my abilities. If I am interrupting and shutting down your critical survival tools, then kitten right I am going to use a runeset that compliments my ability to out think my opponent and one that punishes them for allowing me to do so.

Builds that I’ve used that have been called ‘Cheese:’
10/30/30/0/0 D/P or D/D or P/D
0/20/30/20/0 D/P
10/0/0/30/30 S/D
10/30/0/0/30 S/D or S/P or D/P
10/0/30/0/30 P/D with/without plexity
10/0/30/0/30 S/P-P/D Hybrid
0/25/30/0/15 S/P-P/D Hybrid

There are more, but the point is that I’ve tried basically everything there is to try on a thief. I have 6 armor sets and a plethora of weapons to go with. There is nothing that I can use that isn’t automatically going to be labeled as ‘cheese.’

I play to win and I’m sorry if you don’t. This is my gaming experience, I paid for the game just as you did, I’ve put the hours into my class to beat the odds, and I will absolutely not be catering to everyone else because they are too inept to figure out how to counter/adjust their play style.

TL;DR
Shut up.

Mordecai.6318:

‘Cheese’ is a term used most commonly by scrubs

TL;DR
Shut up.

and with those two statements, you have shown yourself incapable of thoughtful, reasonable argument or conversation regarding this subject. I didn’t even need to bother reading the rest.

magic fly.2041:

Mordecai.6318:

‘Cheese’ is a term used most commonly by scrubs

TL;DR
Shut up.

and with those two statements, you have shown yourself incapable of thoughtful, reasonable argument or conversation regarding this subject. I didn’t even need to bother reading the rest.

You should have read the rest because it was an explanation as to how even weak and stealthless builds have been called cheese.

I completely agree with you. Everything is cheese now a days, and not just on thief class. Condi engi-cheese, hammer warrior-facerolling cheese, condi war-cheese, perma stealth-perma cheese, PU phantasm-cheese.

@QQers, im sorry you can’t l2p and 3v1 some people

Yep. I’ve been running a stealthless S/P 10/0/0/30/30 setup for months now and get called out for running a “cheese” build when some QQer is mad that I outplayed them. It doesn’t matter what setup you run. You’ll always be called out for it, because people will find any outlet they can to blame for their loss, other than the fact that maybe that thief was simply a better player, or you messed up and lost.

Thief in general is going to get hate because people are upset that you have to do work to stay on a thief as that’s how the class is designed. Some builds are better than others because some traits are better than others. This is nothing new, it’s how pretty much every game with such features goes. It’s not impossible to play builds that aren’t “cheese” or “meta” or whatever absurd lingo people use, you just have a more significant learning curve.

Cheese is a stupid word that should not be used outside of referring to food. Like OP said, every build is apparently cheese. To QQers, Builds are strong, that’s the nature of games, please stop using the word it’s annoying.

Mordecai.6318:

‘Cheese’ is a term used most commonly by scrubs who either A.) feel or act above using specific weapons/runesets/builds, etc. B.) don’t play to win

I have been called out on using ‘cheese’ setups on virtually every thief set/build imaginable. It literally does not matter what I play.

100% true. Welcome to the world of thieves. Get used to it, getting mad will just waste your own nerves not theirs.

Wait till you also encounter perma-something….
dat cheesy permastealth xD

And remember that thief is the most op thing ever and there’s no way to counter it.

But cheese IS just a term used by scrubs. It always has been, even in other games.

The earliest example I can think of is spamming the sweep kick in Mortal Kombat. Yeah, if you pit two noobs against each other and one knows how to spam the sweep kick and the other doesn’t or refuses to, it feels kinda cheesy, but some one who is good at the game knows how to counter this.

Or in StarCraft 1 or 2, people call cannon rushing, 6 pooling, 2 base all-in, banshee rush, you name it, if it’s not sitting back and macroing for 20 minutes then letting your opponent know when you’re going to attack, people call it cheese. And even then, some one’s liable to call it cheese cause you built more bases than them. “You and your expansion spam cheese!”. But all of those strategies are vital to the health of the game, without a lot of them, every game would devolve into who could get to 5 bases the fastest. And good players learn to scout for and counter such builds.

What bad players call cheese, good players just call “the meta”.

magic fly.2041:

Mordecai.6318:

‘Cheese’ is a term used most commonly by scrubs

TL;DR
Shut up.

and with those two statements, you have shown yourself incapable of thoughtful, reasonable argument or conversation regarding this subject. I didn’t even need to bother reading the rest.

Being selective and removing my reasoning as to why I think its a ‘scrub’ comment proves to me your incapable of finding any logical counter argument as to why it isn’t.

Cheese is a diary product you dumb kittens.

Karolis.4261:

Cheese is a diary product you dumb kittens.

Best post NA.

I am going to make a formal request to ANET to change my Quip into a Kraft Easy Cheese canister that way I can spray cheese all over my opponents.

The skills will obviously have to be renamed.

Face Splash (Auto Attack)
Cheese your foe with a splash to the face.

Damage: 134 (.4)?
Cheesing: 4 s (170 damage)
Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile (20% chance)
Range: 900

Flavor Burst (From Stealth)
Cheese attack with rapid squirts from your canister and make your foe drip with flavor.

Damage (5x): 405 (1.2)?
Cheesing: 4 s (850 damage)
Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile
Range: 900

Stomach Ache (Body Shot)
Make your foe vulnerable to stomach pains with an overdose of cheese.

Damage: 61 (0.5)?
5 Stomach Pain: 3 s
Vomiting: 3 s
Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile
Range: 900

Cheese Injection (Shadow Strike)
Stab your foe with a razor-sharp canister, then fill the wound with cheese,

Damage: 101 (0.3)?
Cheese Damage: 336 (1.25)?
Vomiting: 5 s (320 damage)

Utilities and a trait line will have to come later. Example: Blinding Powder would be renamed to ‘Cheese Dust.’ This ability would allow you to vanish in a Cheeto’s dust explosion.

Gem Store Exclusive ‘Cheese Finisher’: A tiny man from a bakery slowly grinds up cheese with a cheese grater over the enemies corpse.

Oh, and for those of you who are lactose intolerant, you’d better start begging ANET for some resist gear.

CHEESE yum
what kinda cheese chedda XD

Mordecai.6318:

I am going to make a formal request to ANET to change my Quip into a Kraft Easy Cheese canister that way I can spray cheese all over my opponents.

The skills will obviously have to be renamed.

Face Splash (Auto Attack)
Cheese your foe with a splash to the face.

Damage: 134 (.4)?
Cheesing: 4 s (170 damage)
Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile (20% chance)
Range: 900

Flavor Burst (From Stealth)
Cheese attack with rapid squirts from your canister and make your foe drip with flavor.

Damage (5x): 405 (1.2)?
Cheesing: 4 s (850 damage)
Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile
Range: 900

Stomach Ache (Body Shot)
Make your foe vulnerable to stomach pains with an overdose of cheese.

Damage: 61 (0.5)?
5 Stomach Pain: 3 s
Vomiting: 3 s
Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile
Range: 900

Cheese Injection (Shadow Strike)
Stab your foe with a razor-sharp canister, then fill the wound with cheese,

Damage: 101 (0.3)?
Cheese Damage: 336 (1.25)?
Vomiting: 5 s (320 damage)

Utilities and a trait line will have to come later. Example: Blinding Powder would be renamed to ‘Cheese Dust.’ This ability would allow you to vanish in a Cheeto’s dust explosion.

Gem Store Exclusive ‘Cheese Finisher’: A tiny man from a bakery slowly grinds up cheese with a cheese grater over the enemies corpse.

Oh, and for those of you who are lactose intolerant, you’d better start begging ANET for some resist gear.

+10000000000

caveman.5840:

CHEESE yum
what kinda cheese chedda XD

The utilities and trait line will hopefully incorporate mozarella, pepperjack, and pecorino.

I honestly do not understand why your getting so upset about others complaining about your build. In any MMO there is always someone that will get upset if things do not go their way. So what let them rant and cry because their tears taste ever so sweet. Any MMO I have ever played people always bash the classes with a stealth mechanic. AoC it was the Ranger, WoW it was the rogue and so forth. They cry because not only do they stealth, but have very high burst. People will complain relentlessly especially in a PvP format because human beings are competitive by nature and most do not take losing very well. Honestly I would not take their snide comments to heart for there is an ignore feature and if I am to be “Infamous” for my play style so be it. Publicity bad or good is still publicity and by all means stay classy and continue doing it from behind. Just my two cents!

The only cheese build I know of on Thief isn’t really a build, it’s a weapon set…namely D/P. It takes no real skill to use properly and is pretty powerful because of that easy access to stealth (and subsequently Backstab), which of course is pretty OP to begin with. On the other side, Sword with ANYTHING I don’t consider cheese since it requires some actual skill for use. Unless you’re keeping some stealth utilities on you, you WILL die if you don’t know how to play with a sword properly, due to the lack of easy access to stealth outside of dagger offhand, which is really easy to counter since you have to be in melee range to pull it off.

Mordecai.6318:

Karolis.4261:

Cheese is a diary product you dumb kittens.

Best post NA.

Its EU!

Mordecai.6318:

Let me preface this by saying this is more than likely going to be a rant, because I am beyond tired of reading/listening to people toss the word ‘cheese’ around every time they lose.

‘Cheese’ is a term used most commonly by scrubs who either A.) feel or act above using specific weapons/runesets/builds, etc. B.) don’t play to win

I have been called out on using ‘cheese’ setups on virtually every thief set/build imaginable. It literally does not matter I play. I will inevitably receive a group invite from some raging sourpuss, then listen to them call me cheese.

I ran a 10/0/0/30/30 S/D build that hit like a wet noodle in a lot of cases and still was called ‘Cheese.’

Currently my main cheese is the ever-so-popular P/D plexity thief. I’m sorry, but this is not cheese and never will be. Anyone who uses the P/D set as their ‘latest’ weapon set is either really new to thief or has been living in a box for the past 7-8 months. P/D has been one of/if not the thief’s strongest weapon set for most of this games existence. Even before the Shadow Strike buff, perplexity runes, etc. I’ve used P/D longer than I have D/P and that was even during the D/P ‘perma-stealth’ phase.

I’m sorry that when I play WvW I don’t want to play with an infinite amount of handicaps. Why? Because 90% of the time I am having to deal with the biggest handicap of fighting 1vX. Knowing that is more than likely going to happen I have built my toon to survive and outlast my opponents. It compliments my playstyle and my abilities. If I am interrupting and shutting down your critical survival tools, then kitten right I am going to use a runeset that compliments my ability to out think my opponent and one that punishes them for allowing me to do so.

Builds that I’ve used that have been called ‘Cheese:’
10/30/30/0/0 D/P or D/D or P/D
0/20/30/20/0 D/P
10/0/0/30/30 S/D
10/30/0/0/30 S/D or S/P or D/P
10/0/30/0/30 P/D with/without plexity
10/0/30/0/30 S/P-P/D Hybrid
0/25/30/0/15 S/P-P/D Hybrid

There are more, but the point is that I’ve tried basically everything there is to try on a thief. I have 6 armor sets and a plethora of weapons to go with. There is nothing that I can use that isn’t automatically going to be labeled as ‘cheese.’

I play to win and I’m sorry if you don’t. This is my gaming experience, I paid for the game just as you did, I’ve put the hours into my class to beat the odds, and I will absolutely not be catering to everyone else because they are too inept to figure out how to counter/adjust their play style.

TL;DR
Shut up.

LOL I so agree, however this forum is full of hypocrites and they love this word “cheese” it gives them the fantasy to think there skill is still godly. I call it the pride relaxer. Any high skill player will look at it as a challenge to beat it, instead of crying about it. Cheese sayer=Insecurity
Unfortunately, this has been happening since I can remember in the days of street fighter, starcraft, etc…
They just don’t understand “I play to win”, they think " I play to win, BUT"

Dam Viking jorun, it sadden me that your getting the same treatment lol

“Cheese” is a term people use to label tactics they consider cheap.

I.e. they are either hard to counter or easy to use and exploit.

In Starcraft 2 Protoss players could cannon-rush enemy bases which was considered cheesey for a long time as it exploited the fact that Protoss could port in structures at any location, even if this was in the middle of the enemy base.

It was hard to counter if you were caught off guard and scouting was really the only effective measure against it. Other races had similar tactics and it wasn’t unbalanced. It just felt “cheap” losing to such a simple trick.

Stealth is generally what people feel is cheap about Thieves because it’s so frequently available and provides so many benefits. I sort of agree, but it’s not the Thief’s fault they were designed with so much focus on stealth.

Dee Jay.2460:

“Cheese” is a term people use to label tactics they consider cheap.

I.e. they are either hard to counter or easy to use and exploit.

In Starcraft 2 Protoss players could cannon-rush enemy bases which was considered cheesey for a long time as it exploited the fact that Protoss could port in structures at any location, even if this was in the middle of the enemy base.

It was hard to counter if you were caught off guard and scouting was really the only effective measure against it. Other races had similar tactics and it wasn’t unbalanced. It just felt “cheap” losing to such a simple trick.

Stealth is generally what people feel is cheap about Thieves because it’s so frequently available and provides so many benefits. I sort of agree, but it’s not the Thief’s fault they were designed with so much focus on stealth.

It felt cheap because it was different and hard to counter from the beginning, the protoss cannon rush was use in SC1 as well as scv rush, 6zerg pool rush, zealot rush, bunker rush, and my favourite reaver drop. Each was all easily counter later, it know different on what we deal with on GW2.

Karolis.4261:

Cheese is a diary product you dumb kittens.

Misspells dairy, calls people dumb…

Dingodime.8264:

Karolis.4261:

Cheese is a diary product you dumb kittens.

Misspells dairy, calls people dumb…

So smart…

I don’t think anyone would care about your current build if you didn’t use perplexity.

K U T M.4539:

I don’t think anyone would care about your current build if you didn’t use perplexity.

Problem solved!!!!!!
So let all voluntary refrain ourselves to not use perplexity for the sake of being called cheese and to have a fair fight.
Bravo

RocSteady.9784:

K U T M.4539:

I don’t think anyone would care about your current build if you didn’t use perplexity.

Problem solved!!!!!!
So let all voluntary refrain ourselves to not use perplexity for the sake of being called cheese and to have a fair fight.
Bravo

Perplexity isn’t fun to fight against, isn’t fun to play, and doesn’t help you improve as a player. So…why bother?

I run d/d 10/30/30 and ofc when ppl lose they call stealth/blinds/thieves op. I mean of all the weapon sets thieves can choose from, d/d is probably among the weakest. IMO its not as strong as s/d, no where near as strong as p/d, and its completely outmatched by d/p. I just find it the most fun so i run it ^.^ but Its not even viable in spvp rlly T.T

K U T M.4539:

RocSteady.9784:

K U T M.4539:

I don’t think anyone would care about your current build if you didn’t use perplexity.

Problem solved!!!!!!
So let all voluntary refrain ourselves to not use perplexity for the sake of being called cheese and to have a fair fight.
Bravo

Perplexity isn’t fun to fight against, isn’t fun to play, and doesn’t help you improve as a player. So…why bother?

Why bother? Because its effective. I learned P/D long before perplexity runes even came out, but swapped because it was silly to focus all of my efforts on one condition that is easily cleansed. The confuse is there to buffer my bleeds. Some people just like to melt themselves by never looking at the effects bar. Not my fault.

Mordecai.6318:

K U T M.4539:

RocSteady.9784:

K U T M.4539:

I don’t think anyone would care about your current build if you didn’t use perplexity.

Problem solved!!!!!!
So let all voluntary refrain ourselves to not use perplexity for the sake of being called cheese and to have a fair fight.
Bravo

Perplexity isn’t fun to fight against, isn’t fun to play, and doesn’t help you improve as a player. So…why bother?

Why bother? Because its effective. I learned P/D long before perplexity runes even came out, but swapped because it was silly to focus all of my efforts on one condition that is easily cleansed. The confuse is there to buffer my bleeds. Some people just like to melt themselves by never looking at the effects bar. Not my fault.

My biggest issue with confusion isn’t killing myself with it, it’s the fact that, as a sword thief, all of my condition removals (withdraw with food, shadowstep, infiltrator’s strike) are on the latter half of each skill, forcing me to harm myself in order to even attempt to remove it, god forbid I remove bleeding first.

:| We should….
Use the word…
BUTTER
Like that build is so buttery…

Zero Day.2594:

:| We should….
Use the word…
BUTTER
Like that build is so buttery…

I second this notion. All in favor say ‘I’!

It wouldn’t be as bad if we had more options/weapon sets.
If My Thief is going to be Cheese I’d like to think that he’s delicious Pepperjack Cheese.

Quakeman.9378:

And remember that thief is the most op thing ever and there’s no way to counter it.

I have the counter to Thief in my Inventory. :P

So many ridiculous whine opinions on thieves for the past year. sPvP thieves are a joke, and if you’re in WvW, stealth traps counter thieves no problem. Just get 5 people to rotate their stealth traps and problem solved.

/end thread.

This thread is full of cheese.

People will always complain, if nothing else, then about other people complaining.

So…. if so many have been complaining in WvW about Thieves, maybe the profession has in fact been a broken concept?

The length of this rage-imbued rant suggests that their comments bother you, perhaps some part of you agrees with them OP?

DeWolfe.2174:

So…. if so many have been complaining in WvW about Thieves, maybe the profession has in fact been a broken concept?

Yeah, by that logic the earth would really still be flat.

Gallows.4318:

DeWolfe.2174:

So…. if so many have been complaining in WvW about Thieves, maybe the profession has in fact been a broken concept?

Yeah, by that logic the earth would really still be flat.

LOL! you made my day
+1

Im tired of being cheese, why cant I be lettuce, tomato, or even a pickle??

Spyder.9713:

Im tired of being cheese, why cant I be lettuce, tomato, or even a pickle??

I already proposed to change it to butter…
That build is so buttery…
Thieves are running buttery builds…
Stop buttering me….

Seriously… we should change it to butter… :\ Cream works too, just it’s too suggestive…

Gallows.4318:

DeWolfe.2174:

So…. if so many have been complaining in WvW about Thieves, maybe the profession has in fact been a broken concept?

Yeah, by that logic the earth would really still be flat.

Except, the outcry would have been against the old thought of it being flat. Thus, by your logic, the outcry would be justified.