Guild Wars 2

So, this is always a thing before/after a patch release, an expac, test, etc, etc. In this case, about the DE, I read SO many people saying various different things, such as:
Low damage (lol…. just lol guys)
Slow
No survival
Akward mechanic of kneel
Other smaller stuff
I’m going to say it bluntly, no filter or kitten. Before assuming a class to be bad, or not doing enough damage, or any other aspect, try to question yourself: am I doing things right?
I suppose many of the people that cry over DE are either very low rank, or made a bad build.
Many player’s experiences with the class were ridiculous (mine included), I even got around 80% win rate in the preview weekend and I played around 100 matches, and a few other people in the forums had similar experiences.
I’m not going to explain how I and many other people played it, you can read it here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Deadeye-Build-Thoughts/first#post6714853
The class has some issues and bugs? Absolutely. Are them detrimental or definitory of the class overall performance? Not even close.
You may say, well… you just were lucky to be matched with good teammates, while this is true in some ways (sPvP is a team game), you also can’t contribute having around 80% winrate in a relative large a amount of matches to being “lucky” with the matchmaking, you also have to be doing things right, and in some cases even carring the team.
I’m not claiming to be the God of thief PvP, I’m not even close to being that, I was at Plat 3 in both prev seasons, If you consider the rank sistem in most competitive games, they are most of the time the same distribution ( Normal Distribution/Gauss Bell ), so you could say i’m a bit above average, I may be wrong in what I claim the DE to be, yes, but I would prefer to listen to opinions of the class of players higher ranked than me.
Simply said: the class is good, just build it and play it accordingly and you will get very good results, it’s not going to get buffed, if any, it will get nerfs.

“It (deadeye) cant compete with any old hot spec or any of the new ones.” -Sindrener (Source)

“Like I can go on and on about how little viable DE really is.” -Same as above

Warrost.4895:

“It (deadeye) cant compete with any old hot spec or any of the new ones.” -Sindrener (Source)

“Like I can go on and on about how little viable DE really is.” -Same as above

He does mainly talk about spvp. I do believe Deadeye can still work in WvW, and or PVE.

E: I do believe he said that it can work in a more casual enviroment. Not in the “meta” part, tho.

Warrost.4895:

“It (deadeye) cant compete with any old hot spec or any of the new ones.” -Sindrener (Source)

“Like I can go on and on about how little viable DE really is.” -Same as above

Sind also isn’t a creator or innovator of thief specs. Kinda like Helseth on Mesmer y’know?

My personal opinion on fighting DE’s over that weekend was they have stupid ranged damage. Legit broken with the numbers they put out. Is that viable in highly organized PvP tournaments? I’m not the one to say, but I can say it’s viable in ranked queue.

One of the things we don’t know is how the entire meta will pan out b/c it’s too early to tell. We have to wait for the player base to fully get their hands on the xpac and develop new builds. Once this happens the Meta will pan out and you can subjectively judge where DE stands.

I think you should stop calling criticism “crying”. If you want to start a discussion, saying anyone who disagrees with you is crying or whining is not gonna help strenghten your point. Also everyone is trying out the new specs, specs they don’t know yet, and a lot of players in the demo weeknd never play pvp and that affects your winrate. I mean, you’re plat 3 and manage to win against pve players? Congrats. Doesn’t say anything about the class.

Azukas.1426:

Warrost.4895:

“It (deadeye) cant compete with any old hot spec or any of the new ones.” -Sindrener (Source)

“Like I can go on and on about how little viable DE really is.” -Same as above

Sind also isn’t a creator or innovator of thief specs. Kinda like Helseth on Mesmer y’know?

My personal opinion on fighting DE’s over that weekend was they have stupid ranged damage. Legit broken with the numbers they put out. Is that viable in highly organized PvP tournaments? I’m not the one to say, but I can say it’s viable in ranked queue.

One of the things we don’t know is how the entire meta will pan out b/c it’s too early to tell. We have to wait for the player base to fully get their hands on the xpac and develop new builds. Once this happens the Meta will pan out and you can subjectively judge where DE stands.

Because the top meta thief build haven’t changed since 2014, i’m not gonna create a build that is weaker just to be innovative. However if you look at minor tweaks everyone has followed what I have picked, since HoT start until now being sigils and runes.

Also I’m purely talking about the 5v5 tourney aspect about DE being viable, I couldn’t care any less about ranked, hell you can play S/D power and reach top10 in EU then you can literally play anything.

Warrost.4895:

“It (deadeye) cant compete with any old hot spec or any of the new ones.” -Sindrener (Source)

“Like I can go on and on about how little viable DE really is.” -Same as above

While im also worried about its viability for spvp, the matches Sind streamed were pretty average in quality, whereas Caed really did show a better potential in his gameplay and he were more positive about the traitline.

bluri.2653:

However if you look at minor tweaks everyone has followed what I have picked, since HoT start until now being sigils and runes.

Alright, settle down there. Watch the ego – no need to sink as low as some people here. Build crafting in GW2 is not rocket science.

I can assure you there were people playing what you picked out before you were public about them. Maybe not to the effect you played them, but the point stands.

In any case, I already voiced my opinion on DE over here.

DE, especially rifle, as it was presented in the demo and stress test, will have no place in competitive PvP (like tournaments) or challenging PvE content (like raids). Everything else is irrelevant for the most part because literally everything works everywhere else.

The only possibility for its success in raids currently depends heavily on how well power d/d DE can perform compared to staff DD. That is the only thing I was unable to test remotely reliably. I am very skeptical about its reliability and consistency though given everything we know. Furthermore, even if it was able to be competitive with staff DD, it would fall far behind condi d/d DD.

bluri.2653:

Azukas.1426:

Warrost.4895:

“It (deadeye) cant compete with any old hot spec or any of the new ones.” -Sindrener (Source)

“Like I can go on and on about how little viable DE really is.” -Same as above

Sind also isn’t a creator or innovator of thief specs. Kinda like Helseth on Mesmer y’know?

My personal opinion on fighting DE’s over that weekend was they have stupid ranged damage. Legit broken with the numbers they put out. Is that viable in highly organized PvP tournaments? I’m not the one to say, but I can say it’s viable in ranked queue.

One of the things we don’t know is how the entire meta will pan out b/c it’s too early to tell. We have to wait for the player base to fully get their hands on the xpac and develop new builds. Once this happens the Meta will pan out and you can subjectively judge where DE stands.

Also I’m purely talking about the 5v5 tourney aspect about DE being viable, I couldn’t care any less about ranked, hell you can play S/D power and reach top10 in EU then you can literally play anything.

You mean those matches where you team up with the only competitive players in the game and stomp everyone? Noone gives a kitten about those.

bluri.2653:

Azukas.1426:

Warrost.4895:

“It (deadeye) cant compete with any old hot spec or any of the new ones.” -Sindrener (Source)

“Like I can go on and on about how little viable DE really is.” -Same as above

Sind also isn’t a creator or innovator of thief specs. Kinda like Helseth on Mesmer y’know?

My personal opinion on fighting DE’s over that weekend was they have stupid ranged damage. Legit broken with the numbers they put out. Is that viable in highly organized PvP tournaments? I’m not the one to say, but I can say it’s viable in ranked queue.

One of the things we don’t know is how the entire meta will pan out b/c it’s too early to tell. We have to wait for the player base to fully get their hands on the xpac and develop new builds. Once this happens the Meta will pan out and you can subjectively judge where DE stands.

Because the top meta thief build haven’t changed since 2014, i’m not gonna create a build that is weaker just to be innovative. However if you look at minor tweaks everyone has followed what I have picked, since HoT start until now being sigils and runes.

Also I’m purely talking about the 5v5 tourney aspect about DE being viable, I couldn’t care any less about ranked, hell you can play S/D power and reach top10 in EU then you can literally play anything.

Check it mate I’m not flaming you just stating that you haven’t ever been the innovator of thief builds. I can readily admit I haven’t been the innovator of Mesmer builds too. Even your boy Helseth doesn’t innovate. It’s not a bad thing just some people do it better than others.

That being said I agree with you on DE in organized 5v5. I just differ as I don’t know what the rest of PoF is bringing to the table. It might be that DD mobility isn’t needed and the extremely high single target burst of DE is. We don’t know yet.

Azukas.1426:

bluri.2653:

Azukas.1426:

Warrost.4895:

“It (deadeye) cant compete with any old hot spec or any of the new ones.” -Sindrener (Source)

“Like I can go on and on about how little viable DE really is.” -Same as above

Sind also isn’t a creator or innovator of thief specs. Kinda like Helseth on Mesmer y’know?

My personal opinion on fighting DE’s over that weekend was they have stupid ranged damage. Legit broken with the numbers they put out. Is that viable in highly organized PvP tournaments? I’m not the one to say, but I can say it’s viable in ranked queue.

One of the things we don’t know is how the entire meta will pan out b/c it’s too early to tell. We have to wait for the player base to fully get their hands on the xpac and develop new builds. Once this happens the Meta will pan out and you can subjectively judge where DE stands.

Because the top meta thief build haven’t changed since 2014, i’m not gonna create a build that is weaker just to be innovative. However if you look at minor tweaks everyone has followed what I have picked, since HoT start until now being sigils and runes.

Also I’m purely talking about the 5v5 tourney aspect about DE being viable, I couldn’t care any less about ranked, hell you can play S/D power and reach top10 in EU then you can literally play anything.

Check it mate I’m not flaming you just stating that you haven’t ever been the innovator of thief builds. I can readily admit I haven’t been the innovator of Mesmer builds too. Even your boy Helseth doesn’t innovate. It’s not a bad thing just some people do it better than others.

That being said I agree with you on DE in organized 5v5. I just differ as I don’t know what the rest of PoF is bringing to the table. It might be that DD mobility isn’t needed and the extremely high single target burst of DE is. We don’t know yet.

And thats what i said, theres nothing to innovate since the build is literally the same lol none of the new builds that have came up touches dp, not that I care if i’m not an innovator, I’m merely saying there isn’t anything to innovate lmao

“You mean those matches where you team up with the only competitive players in the game and stomp everyone? Noone gives a kitten about those.”

Sure lad, who are you to say people don’t care about them? AT’s have good rewards and I’m sure there are players who are interested in beating us in them. Besides idk if you watched but they actually lost the AT day before so helseth and mancow didn’t have enough QP for monthly.

bluri.2653:

Azukas.1426:

bluri.2653:

Azukas.1426:

Warrost.4895:

“It (deadeye) cant compete with any old hot spec or any of the new ones.” -Sindrener (Source)

“Like I can go on and on about how little viable DE really is.” -Same as above

Sind also isn’t a creator or innovator of thief specs. Kinda like Helseth on Mesmer y’know?

My personal opinion on fighting DE’s over that weekend was they have stupid ranged damage. Legit broken with the numbers they put out. Is that viable in highly organized PvP tournaments? I’m not the one to say, but I can say it’s viable in ranked queue.

One of the things we don’t know is how the entire meta will pan out b/c it’s too early to tell. We have to wait for the player base to fully get their hands on the xpac and develop new builds. Once this happens the Meta will pan out and you can subjectively judge where DE stands.

Because the top meta thief build haven’t changed since 2014, i’m not gonna create a build that is weaker just to be innovative. However if you look at minor tweaks everyone has followed what I have picked, since HoT start until now being sigils and runes.

Also I’m purely talking about the 5v5 tourney aspect about DE being viable, I couldn’t care any less about ranked, hell you can play S/D power and reach top10 in EU then you can literally play anything.

Check it mate I’m not flaming you just stating that you haven’t ever been the innovator of thief builds. I can readily admit I haven’t been the innovator of Mesmer builds too. Even your boy Helseth doesn’t innovate. It’s not a bad thing just some people do it better than others.

That being said I agree with you on DE in organized 5v5. I just differ as I don’t know what the rest of PoF is bringing to the table. It might be that DD mobility isn’t needed and the extremely high single target burst of DE is. We don’t know yet.

And thats what i said, theres nothing to innovate since the build is literally the same lol none of the new builds that have came up touches dp, not that I care if i’m not an innovator, I’m merely saying there isn’t anything to innovate lmao

Actually when HoT release for quite some time d/p dash wasn’t the best load out for a thief. That’s neither here nor there now so moving on. There are ways to innovate in today’s game as well……

Look at s/d condi now. Again that’s some really smart innovation to use a predominately power build w/ zero condi application as a condi load out. The fella who created bunker rev. Another example albeit a different class, but none the less that fella really created a nice build.

There’s always room for innovative new builds with each balance patch. You and MANY of the top players aren’t innovating the builds mostly. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with it either.

Azukas.1426:

bluri.2653:

Azukas.1426:

bluri.2653:

Azukas.1426:

Warrost.4895:

“It (deadeye) cant compete with any old hot spec or any of the new ones.” -Sindrener (Source)

“Like I can go on and on about how little viable DE really is.” -Same as above

Sind also isn’t a creator or innovator of thief specs. Kinda like Helseth on Mesmer y’know?

My personal opinion on fighting DE’s over that weekend was they have stupid ranged damage. Legit broken with the numbers they put out. Is that viable in highly organized PvP tournaments? I’m not the one to say, but I can say it’s viable in ranked queue.

One of the things we don’t know is how the entire meta will pan out b/c it’s too early to tell. We have to wait for the player base to fully get their hands on the xpac and develop new builds. Once this happens the Meta will pan out and you can subjectively judge where DE stands.

Because the top meta thief build haven’t changed since 2014, i’m not gonna create a build that is weaker just to be innovative. However if you look at minor tweaks everyone has followed what I have picked, since HoT start until now being sigils and runes.

Also I’m purely talking about the 5v5 tourney aspect about DE being viable, I couldn’t care any less about ranked, hell you can play S/D power and reach top10 in EU then you can literally play anything.

Check it mate I’m not flaming you just stating that you haven’t ever been the innovator of thief builds. I can readily admit I haven’t been the innovator of Mesmer builds too. Even your boy Helseth doesn’t innovate. It’s not a bad thing just some people do it better than others.

That being said I agree with you on DE in organized 5v5. I just differ as I don’t know what the rest of PoF is bringing to the table. It might be that DD mobility isn’t needed and the extremely high single target burst of DE is. We don’t know yet.

And thats what i said, theres nothing to innovate since the build is literally the same lol none of the new builds that have came up touches dp, not that I care if i’m not an innovator, I’m merely saying there isn’t anything to innovate lmao

Actually when HoT release for quite some time d/p dash wasn’t the best load out for a thief. That’s neither here nor there now so moving on. There are ways to innovate in today’s game as well……

Look at s/d condi now. Again that’s some really smart innovation to use a predominately power build w/ zero condi application as a condi load out. The fella who created bunker rev. Another example albeit a different class, but none the less that fella really created a nice build.

There’s always room for innovative new builds with each balance patch. You and MANY of the top players aren’t innovating the builds mostly. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with it either.

dp dash was always the strongest in terms of 5v5 play so ill disagree on that, and again you are bringing up builds that has no place in 5v5 that would compete with the meta builds, so again no point innovating new builds that are weaker.

Problem in start of hot in 5v5 tourneys was that you could class stack as much as you wanted so there was no point bringing a thief. Meanwhile we had tons of success with it in scrims as rev/thief comp vs vM for pro leauge s1/2 finals vs their 2x rev.

Also this condi S/D build has been out since pretty much start of HoT as a D/P version with pressure strike etc, also variants of S/D. It was just never good enough until potent poison, and still can’t compete with a DP thief in 5v5 cus the lack of stealth openings/speed of rotation of dash and just lack of stealth for +1s. So i wouldn’t really call slapping on S/D being innovative rofl.

I’ll say this again, if someone comes up with a build that would remove the meta build being played I’d call that something good, until then I couldn’t care any less (5v5 cus again I couldn’t care about ranked q anything is viable there).

And I think you are wrong with saying it’s not the top players that have created most meta builds.

Tage/Denshee S1 viper retri rev with dura, same with the power version with dura/zerk amu.

Frostball with condi mes

Helseth bunker mes

prolly forgot tons of others

Here’s what I know… I went into pve where dps really matters and tested deadeye. I killed things so slow with full ascended zerker gear. If there were two or three mobs I would have to run around and kite things until one finally died. Sometimes a target without mark on it would LOS the target with mark so it took even longer to kill. I put my staff back on and started wrecking everything while not being immobile. Deadeye does not need to be better than daredevil but it needs to compete and with how the damage felt in pve I don’t see how it can. Also, this is a good criticism on how the game felt to me from someone who loves the game and loves the idea of deadeye. Not "whining "

Just a reminder, ATs are the only “5v5” gamemode in the game currently and even that isnt played by that many people, so who cares if DE is or is not viable there if 99% of time you are solo/duo queing ranked ? so with that in mind:
1) Will be DE viable in sPvP? – YES
2) will it be the best spec ? – probably NO , but who cares if you enjoy playing it
3) Will DE be viable in WvW? – Hell yes
4) Will DE be viable in PvE? – Yes, rifle probably wont be best choice mainly in raids, but that does not matter at all, everywhere else in PvE you will be able to play Rifle

So conclusion is: DE will be viable spec, period.

Blackari.2051:

Just a reminder, ATs are the only “5v5” gamemode in the game currently and even that isnt played by that many people, so who cares if DE is or is not viable there if 99% of time you are solo/duo queing ranked ? so with that in mind:
1) Will be DE viable in sPvP? – YES
2) will it be the best spec ? – probably NO , but who cares if you enjoy playing it
3) Will DE be viable in WvW? – Hell yes
4) Will DE be viable in PvE? – Yes, rifle probably wont be best choice mainly in raids, but that does not matter at all, everywhere else in PvE you will be able to play Rifle

So conclusion is: DE will be viable spec, period.

Saying it can be technical played, doesnt mean it will be viable.

• Can deadeye be played technically in spvp?
  Yes
• Can you stomp low ranked?
  Yes
• Will it be viable compared to daredevil or even close?
  Clearly no, because it simply can’t do what daredevil can

• Can it be technically played in WvW?
  Yes
• Will it be viable (beside trolling of course) in wvw?
  Not for zergs, just like thief/daredevil brings nothing for zergs, deadeye won’t do either.
  Rifle is not viable in zergs, duo to all the projectile hate and no AOE capability
• For roaming?
  Daredevil is faster and more safe for caping
  Deadeye won’t differ much from D/P I guess. Either you burst your prey down or run away. Deadeye brings nothing for sustain, beside more stealth to reset the fight.
  But even here, beside the not special range of 1500 (just when you cripple yourself!) deadeye will be an easy kill.
  You can ask rangers why they don’t use their longbow that much.

Personally I doubt deadeye will come even close to daredevils damage in raids, but I have not tested it.

• Is deadeye physically playable?
  Yes
• Is it viable compared to daredevil?
  I guess not.

That is the problem with a lot of pvp-ers , you all are comparing DE to DrD like “DE wont be able to do what DrD is doing so it wont be viable”, ofc it wont, because those 2 are totally different in gamplay. I know it is hard to think about “what if meta changes and roaming backcapping / +1-ing DrD wont be needed that much”, but there is this possibility, DE is more of a skirmisher who can win 1v1 (not saing you will ahve to play rifle or will be playing it) and DrD is mobile +1 ganking tool.

Blackari.2051:

Just a reminder, ATs are the only “5v5” gamemode in the game currently and even that isnt played by that many people, so who cares if DE is or is not viable there if 99% of time you are solo/duo queing ranked ? so with that in mind:
1) Will be DE viable in sPvP? – YES
2) will it be the best spec ? – probably NO , but who cares if you enjoy playing it
3) Will DE be viable in WvW? – Hell yes
4) Will DE be viable in PvE? – Yes, rifle probably wont be best choice mainly in raids, but that does not matter at all, everywhere else in PvE you will be able to play Rifle

So conclusion is: DE will be viable spec, period.

Viable and optimal are two different things

Blackari.2051:

That is the problem with a lot of pvp-ers , you all are comparing DE to DrD like “DE wont be able to do what DrD is doing so it wont be viable”, ofc it wont, because those 2 are totally different in gamplay. I know it is hard to think about “what if meta changes and roaming backcapping / +1-ing DrD wont be needed that much”, but there is this possibility, DE is more of a skirmisher who can win 1v1 (not saing you will ahve to play rifle or will be playing it) and DrD is mobile +1 ganking tool.

Meta won’t shift to a state “where drd won’t be needed that much”, simply because there are already classes for skirmishing and 1v1.
But you know what? People still don’t do a 5v5 without a daredevil.
Because reality has proven, that decapping and +1 showed to work best to win.
Beside that, thief is not a 1v1 class, and deadeye won’t change that.
Not enough sustain for example.

bluri.2653:

Viable and optimal are two different things

Yeah, in terms of organized pvp team, as I said 99% of your time in GW2 you are not under those conditions therefore viable is enough.
Even tho I still believe someone would find out a comp with “optimal” DE in it

Blackari.2051:

bluri.2653:

Viable and optimal are two different things

Yeah, in terms of organized pvp team, as I said 99% of your time in GW2 you are not under those conditions therefore viable is enough.
Even tho I still believe someone would find out a comp with “optimal” DE in it

Why? Or more precise, how?
current meta in pvp is: tempest, chrono, daredevil, scrapper and revenant.
These classes are not chosen by a mighty shadow power in the background, but because they fill their roles best.
Which of those would you replace with deadeye? Since chrono is not replaceable (2x portal/moa for example), daredevils ability to uncap and +1 makes it also not replaceable.
Maybe tempest, but deadeye cant fit in it’s role
Scrapper also not replaceable by deadeye

You surely can play deadeye in unranked or spvp, just like you can drive a smart everywhere. But don’t expect to win races with it.

bluri.2653:

Azukas.1426:

bluri.2653:

Azukas.1426:

bluri.2653:

Azukas.1426:

Warrost.4895:

“It (deadeye) cant compete with any old hot spec or any of the new ones.” -Sindrener (Source)

“Like I can go on and on about how little viable DE really is.” -Same as above

Sind also isn’t a creator or innovator of thief specs. Kinda like Helseth on Mesmer y’know?

My personal opinion on fighting DE’s over that weekend was they have stupid ranged damage. Legit broken with the numbers they put out. Is that viable in highly organized PvP tournaments? I’m not the one to say, but I can say it’s viable in ranked queue.

One of the things we don’t know is how the entire meta will pan out b/c it’s too early to tell. We have to wait for the player base to fully get their hands on the xpac and develop new builds. Once this happens the Meta will pan out and you can subjectively judge where DE stands.

Because the top meta thief build haven’t changed since 2014, i’m not gonna create a build that is weaker just to be innovative. However if you look at minor tweaks everyone has followed what I have picked, since HoT start until now being sigils and runes.

Also I’m purely talking about the 5v5 tourney aspect about DE being viable, I couldn’t care any less about ranked, hell you can play S/D power and reach top10 in EU then you can literally play anything.

Check it mate I’m not flaming you just stating that you haven’t ever been the innovator of thief builds. I can readily admit I haven’t been the innovator of Mesmer builds too. Even your boy Helseth doesn’t innovate. It’s not a bad thing just some people do it better than others.

That being said I agree with you on DE in organized 5v5. I just differ as I don’t know what the rest of PoF is bringing to the table. It might be that DD mobility isn’t needed and the extremely high single target burst of DE is. We don’t know yet.

And thats what i said, theres nothing to innovate since the build is literally the same lol none of the new builds that have came up touches dp, not that I care if i’m not an innovator, I’m merely saying there isn’t anything to innovate lmao

Actually when HoT release for quite some time d/p dash wasn’t the best load out for a thief. That’s neither here nor there now so moving on. There are ways to innovate in today’s game as well……

Look at s/d condi now. Again that’s some really smart innovation to use a predominately power build w/ zero condi application as a condi load out. The fella who created bunker rev. Another example albeit a different class, but none the less that fella really created a nice build.

There’s always room for innovative new builds with each balance patch. You and MANY of the top players aren’t innovating the builds mostly. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with it either.

dp dash was always the strongest in terms of 5v5 play so ill disagree on that, and again you are bringing up builds that has no place in 5v5 that would compete with the meta builds, so again no point innovating new builds that are weaker.

Problem in start of hot in 5v5 tourneys was that you could class stack as much as you wanted so there was no point bringing a thief. Meanwhile we had tons of success with it in scrims as rev/thief comp vs vM for pro leauge s1/2 finals vs their 2x rev.

Also this condi S/D build has been out since pretty much start of HoT as a D/P version with pressure strike etc, also variants of S/D. It was just never good enough until potent poison, and still can’t compete with a DP thief in 5v5 cus the lack of stealth openings/speed of rotation of dash and just lack of stealth for +1s. So i wouldn’t really call slapping on S/D being innovative rofl.

I’ll say this again, if someone comes up with a build that would remove the meta build being played I’d call that something good, until then I couldn’t care any less (5v5 cus again I couldn’t care about ranked q anything is viable there).

And I think you are wrong with saying it’s not the top players that have created most meta builds.

Tage/Denshee S1 viper retri rev with dura, same with the power version with dura/zerk amu.

Frostball with condi mes

Helseth bunker mes

prolly forgot tons of others

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/168162426?t=11m25s

Look that’s you failing to innovate. Watch Caed’s video on DE compared to yours and you’ll see the truth of the matter.

I never said NONE of the innovation comes from ex ESL players I said MANY of them don’t innovate. If I remember correctly Helseth didn’t create the bunker mesmer. I don’t think he even started playing until he had too.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Chrono-bunker/first

I don’t understand your animosity on this subject as no one is attacking you.

Have a good day

Azukas.1426:

bluri.2653:

Azukas.1426:

bluri.2653:

Azukas.1426:

bluri.2653:

Azukas.1426:

Warrost.4895:

“It (deadeye) cant compete with any old hot spec or any of the new ones.” -Sindrener (Source)

“Like I can go on and on about how little viable DE really is.” -Same as above

Sind also isn’t a creator or innovator of thief specs. Kinda like Helseth on Mesmer y’know?

My personal opinion on fighting DE’s over that weekend was they have stupid ranged damage. Legit broken with the numbers they put out. Is that viable in highly organized PvP tournaments? I’m not the one to say, but I can say it’s viable in ranked queue.

One of the things we don’t know is how the entire meta will pan out b/c it’s too early to tell. We have to wait for the player base to fully get their hands on the xpac and develop new builds. Once this happens the Meta will pan out and you can subjectively judge where DE stands.

Because the top meta thief build haven’t changed since 2014, i’m not gonna create a build that is weaker just to be innovative. However if you look at minor tweaks everyone has followed what I have picked, since HoT start until now being sigils and runes.

Also I’m purely talking about the 5v5 tourney aspect about DE being viable, I couldn’t care any less about ranked, hell you can play S/D power and reach top10 in EU then you can literally play anything.

Check it mate I’m not flaming you just stating that you haven’t ever been the innovator of thief builds. I can readily admit I haven’t been the innovator of Mesmer builds too. Even your boy Helseth doesn’t innovate. It’s not a bad thing just some people do it better than others.

That being said I agree with you on DE in organized 5v5. I just differ as I don’t know what the rest of PoF is bringing to the table. It might be that DD mobility isn’t needed and the extremely high single target burst of DE is. We don’t know yet.

And thats what i said, theres nothing to innovate since the build is literally the same lol none of the new builds that have came up touches dp, not that I care if i’m not an innovator, I’m merely saying there isn’t anything to innovate lmao

Actually when HoT release for quite some time d/p dash wasn’t the best load out for a thief. That’s neither here nor there now so moving on. There are ways to innovate in today’s game as well……

Look at s/d condi now. Again that’s some really smart innovation to use a predominately power build w/ zero condi application as a condi load out. The fella who created bunker rev. Another example albeit a different class, but none the less that fella really created a nice build.

There’s always room for innovative new builds with each balance patch. You and MANY of the top players aren’t innovating the builds mostly. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with it either.

dp dash was always the strongest in terms of 5v5 play so ill disagree on that, and again you are bringing up builds that has no place in 5v5 that would compete with the meta builds, so again no point innovating new builds that are weaker.

Problem in start of hot in 5v5 tourneys was that you could class stack as much as you wanted so there was no point bringing a thief. Meanwhile we had tons of success with it in scrims as rev/thief comp vs vM for pro leauge s1/2 finals vs their 2x rev.

Also this condi S/D build has been out since pretty much start of HoT as a D/P version with pressure strike etc, also variants of S/D. It was just never good enough until potent poison, and still can’t compete with a DP thief in 5v5 cus the lack of stealth openings/speed of rotation of dash and just lack of stealth for +1s. So i wouldn’t really call slapping on S/D being innovative rofl.

I’ll say this again, if someone comes up with a build that would remove the meta build being played I’d call that something good, until then I couldn’t care any less (5v5 cus again I couldn’t care about ranked q anything is viable there).

And I think you are wrong with saying it’s not the top players that have created most meta builds.

Tage/Denshee S1 viper retri rev with dura, same with the power version with dura/zerk amu.

Frostball with condi mes

Helseth bunker mes

prolly forgot tons of others

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/168162426?t=11m25s

Look that’s you failing to innovate. Watch Caed’s video on DE compared to yours and you’ll see the truth of the matter.

I never said NONE of the innovation comes from ex ESL players I said MANY of them don’t innovate. If I remember correctly Helseth didn’t create the bunker mesmer. I don’t think he even started playing until he had too.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Chrono-bunker/first

I don’t understand your animosity on this subject as no one is attacking you.

Have a good day

Clueless. I say it again since you don’t seem to understand.

There is 0 reason to innovate a build as long as it cannot replace drd dp dash in terms of being more optimal. Do you comprehend? If you don’t understand this, there is nothing to discuss.

bluri.2653:

Clueless. I say it again since you don’t seem to understand.

There is 0 reason to innovate a build as long as it cannot replace drd dp dash in terms of being more optimal. Do you comprehend? If you don’t understand this, there is nothing to discuss.

I think what they are trying to convey, but not well, is that due to the situation you are describing Thief’s build diversity is in; (i.e not needing to innovate due to the same, or similar, build being the only viable or reliable build that has been used for a long time) that means some of those who have used it, yourself included, aren’t going to be the ones to actually come up with the build that would make Deadeye viable in the competitive side of sPvP. Not all, just some.

What he is saying in a roundabout way is that you’re not the guy that is going to figure out a build or playstyle for Deadeye especially based on that atrocious example of gameplay I saw on your stream with it. Ew. Granted it isn’t entirely your fault, Deadeye with Rifle is very range heavy and I consistently just saw you in people’s faces which is what you are accustomed to with Daredevil. That isn’t ideal and it will definitely get you killed along with removing most of the benefits of Deadeye’s damage in that you can do it at range.

Thief has been a +1 for a while in sPvP and thats where Deadeye can fit as well, but you were playing Deadeye as if it were melee. You weren’t using stealth well enough, likely because you’re not used to running so much of it on your utilities with the exception of Mercy, which is okay but its more detrimental in PvP and I’d more advise it for PvE.

I’m in no way saying Deadeye would replace Daredevil, but they are both different in how they survive fights and how they engage them. Daredevil is reliant on a slew of evades and longer range mobility to engage, disengage and survive. Deadeye relies more on Stealth and moving away from the danger unseen while engaging from a distance. Its a little harder to do if you’re accustomed to evade spamming every half second with Daredevil while in melee with someone.

With that said, again, your Deadeye gameplay with Rifle hurt me. You were very clearly not very used to it yet. Which I get, its hard to break habit. Its like rolling a different class on Black Desert Online. The muscle memory is just not there and you’re thrown all over the place like “wut do i cant”.

bluri.2653:

Clueless. I say it again since you don’t seem to understand.

There is 0 reason to innovate a build as long as it cannot replace drd dp dash in terms of being more optimal. Do you comprehend? If you don’t understand this, there is nothing to discuss.

I’m sorry but I’ma have to do it.

In the ENTIRE pro league thief was a non factor. You yourself (no matter how much I or everyone else cheered you on) on thief did not make a difference.

Disclaimer I detested the Meta during that time period b/c I truly believe today’s meta with pro league would be 100x more enjoyable than what we were forced to watch…..back to the post

Did a team who won in the finals even run a thief EVER? I don’t remember that happening. I remember you running thief in a match only to have the team ignore you & win the match. I remember every NA team who ran one in the finals lost to teams who did not.

It’s only been for the last 9 months that thief actually can be considered Meta after the pro league was abolished. For over a year thief d/p dash has been a non factor in the meta of GW2 PvP scene.

PoF release is upon us. The meta is going to change just like it did with HoT. It’s too early to actually tell how it’s fully going to pan out. Thief once again could become a worthless class that is more detrimental to play than not to. Every class has the danger of this happening….

So why not innovate? Caed was on to something with Staff thief before the rest of the community realized what he actually had going on.

Have a good one man

Viable is not optimal, just like popularizing is not creating/inventing.

It’s baffling that this argument over which is better is still ongoing.

DD is better than the DE, as presented in the demo/stress test, in ALL game modes. It’s plain and simple…and if you have a hard time understanding that, then you cannot be helped.

Asur.9178:

Viable is not optimal, just like popularizing is not creating/inventing.

It’s baffling that this argument over which is better is still ongoing.

DD is better than the DE, as presented in the demo/stress test, in ALL game modes. It’s plain and simple…and if you have a hard time understanding that, then you cannot be helped.

Honestly I think we’ll just have to wait and see. I am by no means saying DE is better than DD, I’d say they are on par they just do things a bit different from each other to accomplish the same goal. +1 fights, burst and decap.

While your feedback post made some good points I don’t think it by any means relegates Deadeye to the position you try to claim. If anything the points you bring up in your feedback on Deadeye will only improve it further in PvP beyond where it already is, which in my opinion is still a good position. The issue you see with the execution of Deadeye in PvP, however, likely comes from not being used to the playstyle, the build being used or potentially just the player themselves. It is one thing to understand and theory craft and another to put it into actual execution.

I do want to point out, however, that some of your suggestions in regards to changes to some skills is a bit…off. Some aren’t as bad as you claim even with their initiative costs, especially if you build right, on top of the fact that some of those suggestions would put Deadeye way above and beyond just being “viable” as it would push their “strength” way above others. So while some of your feedback was good and I think potentially helpful to smooth the Elite Spec out a bit more, others I think were influenced by a bit of bias on your end seeing as you’re seemingly in the Thief’s corner when it comes to this game.

KryTiKaL.3125:

Asur.9178:

Viable is not optimal, just like popularizing is not creating/inventing.

It’s baffling that this argument over which is better is still ongoing.

DD is better than the DE, as presented in the demo/stress test, in ALL game modes. It’s plain and simple…and if you have a hard time understanding that, then you cannot be helped.

Honestly I think we’ll just have to wait and see. I am by no means saying DE is better than DD, I’d say they are on par they just do things a bit different from each other to accomplish the same goal. +1 fights, burst and decap.

While your feedback post made some good points I don’t think it by any means relegates Deadeye to the position you try to claim. If anything the points you bring up in your feedback on Deadeye will only improve it further in PvP beyond where it already is, which in my opinion is still a good position. The issue you see with the execution of Deadeye in PvP, however, likely comes from not being used to the playstyle, the build being used or potentially just the player themselves. It is one thing to understand and theory craft and another to put it into actual execution.

I do want to point out, however, that some of your suggestions in regards to changes to some skills is a bit…off. Some aren’t as bad as you claim even with their initiative costs, especially if you build right, on top of the fact that some of those suggestions would put Deadeye way above and beyond just being “viable” as it would push their “strength” way above others. So while some of your feedback was good and I think potentially helpful to smooth the Elite Spec out a bit more, others I think were influenced by a bit of bias on your end seeing as you’re seemingly in the Thief’s corner when it comes to this game.

I’m sorry to say this, but your inexperience with the game and state of all classes is showing. Balance is irrelevant for everything except hardcore PvE content (raids/fractal cms) and competitive PvP (tournaments).

To put everything in simple terms so you may understand: under the current implementation, you’re better off playing a lb soulbeast than a DE, because it fulfills the role of a DE far better.

DE is basically closer to home with core thief in my opinion. If you were GOOD with core thief before the DareDevil spec came out, then DE is going to be really stupid in your hands.

My personal experience with Deadeye in sPvP, PvE, and WvW is you really need to know the core thief well before you touch it. The Deadeye doesn’t have as big of a problem with survivability like people think it does. The damage you push out will justify you leaving behind Critical Strikes to grab something like Acrobatics, Trickery, or Shadow Arts.

And rushing a Deadeye who’s competent in Melee is generally a bad idea if he has his mark on you, and had generated malice. The people who did this to me would find themselves suddenly being one shotted with a backstab after swapping to Dagger and Pistol. Sadly though if you take Rifle, and then a melee weapon instead of bow you lose the powerful terrain advantage that thieves had. Some even fell victim to the traps I had lying around to protect my flank, which then made them wide open for an easy kill.

Mobility hasn’t been a problem for me, as abusing Shadow Step, Shadow Flare, and or Infiltrator’s will keep you bouncing all over the place and make it difficult for foes to get a bead on you.

Damage being reflected has been a non-issue (and I’m not talking about the bug either). Spellbreaker’s Big barrier thing has proven to be more of a hinderance to the Spellbreaker than me. He pops shield, he think’s he’s safe. He’s unprepared for the fact that I just started the channel for #4 and shadow-stepped into point blank range so he didn’t have time to react.

Asur.9178:

KryTiKaL.3125:

Asur.9178:

Viable is not optimal, just like popularizing is not creating/inventing.

It’s baffling that this argument over which is better is still ongoing.

DD is better than the DE, as presented in the demo/stress test, in ALL game modes. It’s plain and simple…and if you have a hard time understanding that, then you cannot be helped.

Honestly I think we’ll just have to wait and see. I am by no means saying DE is better than DD, I’d say they are on par they just do things a bit different from each other to accomplish the same goal. +1 fights, burst and decap.

While your feedback post made some good points I don’t think it by any means relegates Deadeye to the position you try to claim. If anything the points you bring up in your feedback on Deadeye will only improve it further in PvP beyond where it already is, which in my opinion is still a good position. The issue you see with the execution of Deadeye in PvP, however, likely comes from not being used to the playstyle, the build being used or potentially just the player themselves. It is one thing to understand and theory craft and another to put it into actual execution.

I do want to point out, however, that some of your suggestions in regards to changes to some skills is a bit…off. Some aren’t as bad as you claim even with their initiative costs, especially if you build right, on top of the fact that some of those suggestions would put Deadeye way above and beyond just being “viable” as it would push their “strength” way above others. So while some of your feedback was good and I think potentially helpful to smooth the Elite Spec out a bit more, others I think were influenced by a bit of bias on your end seeing as you’re seemingly in the Thief’s corner when it comes to this game.

I’m sorry to say this, but your inexperience with the game and state of all classes is showing. Balance is irrelevant for everything except hardcore PvE content (raids/fractal cms) and competitive PvP (tournaments).

To put everything in simple terms so you may understand: under the current implementation, you’re better off playing a lb soulbeast than a DE, because it fulfills the role of a DE far better.

I’m sorry to say this but “condescending” isn’t a good look on you (or anyone for that matter).

I’m well aware of where balance matters and the fact that you are apparently brushing off my comment on Thief having been primarily a +1 in PvP due to burst damage along with being prime for decapping means you’re either not actually aware of Thief’s place in PvP or you are unwilling to accept any comment that disagrees or runs counter to what you say/believe.

I even said you gave good feedback, but still felt your suggestions for changes were a bit much and may even possibly stem from more of an “impulsive” reaction or not being able to adjust to the spec in the time we had allotted for testing. If you are still going to ignore other people and believe you’re right and that is that then I can do nothing to change that and discussing with you beyond this point is ultimately fruitless.

KryTiKaL.3125:

Asur.9178:

KryTiKaL.3125:

Asur.9178:

Viable is not optimal, just like popularizing is not creating/inventing.

It’s baffling that this argument over which is better is still ongoing.

DD is better than the DE, as presented in the demo/stress test, in ALL game modes. It’s plain and simple…and if you have a hard time understanding that, then you cannot be helped.

Honestly I think we’ll just have to wait and see. I am by no means saying DE is better than DD, I’d say they are on par they just do things a bit different from each other to accomplish the same goal. +1 fights, burst and decap.

While your feedback post made some good points I don’t think it by any means relegates Deadeye to the position you try to claim. If anything the points you bring up in your feedback on Deadeye will only improve it further in PvP beyond where it already is, which in my opinion is still a good position. The issue you see with the execution of Deadeye in PvP, however, likely comes from not being used to the playstyle, the build being used or potentially just the player themselves. It is one thing to understand and theory craft and another to put it into actual execution.

I do want to point out, however, that some of your suggestions in regards to changes to some skills is a bit…off. Some aren’t as bad as you claim even with their initiative costs, especially if you build right, on top of the fact that some of those suggestions would put Deadeye way above and beyond just being “viable” as it would push their “strength” way above others. So while some of your feedback was good and I think potentially helpful to smooth the Elite Spec out a bit more, others I think were influenced by a bit of bias on your end seeing as you’re seemingly in the Thief’s corner when it comes to this game.

I’m sorry to say this, but your inexperience with the game and state of all classes is showing. Balance is irrelevant for everything except hardcore PvE content (raids/fractal cms) and competitive PvP (tournaments).

To put everything in simple terms so you may understand: under the current implementation, you’re better off playing a lb soulbeast than a DE, because it fulfills the role of a DE far better.

I’m sorry to say this but “condescending” isn’t a good look on you (or anyone for that matter).

I’m well aware of where balance matters and the fact that you are apparently brushing off my comment on Thief having been primarily a +1 in PvP due to burst damage along with being prime for decapping means you’re either not actually aware of Thief’s place in PvP or you are unwilling to accept any comment that disagrees or runs counter to what you say/believe.

I even said you gave good feedback, but still felt your suggestions for changes were a bit much and may even possibly stem from more of an “impulsive” reaction or not being able to adjust to the spec in the time we had allotted for testing. If you are still going to ignore other people and believe you’re right and that is that then I can do nothing to change that and discussing with you beyond this point is ultimately fruitless.

He’s always like that. You’d have better luck discussing something with a politician.

deadeye make s/p viable weapon set to play with out taking trick line. leads to some interesting build comps.

does that make it stronger then daredevil probably not at end of the day. But it will bring new builds to the board i would like to see how anet goes about it.

if they lower the CD on mercy deadeye could be really scary.

Well… this sure got interesting. So in regard of what Sindrener said, I can’t really argue with that since I have little to none exp with tournaments, but in ranked you can play literally anything. One thing to mention, as one guy already said above, his gameplay of the DE was a bit… bad, to say the least. I watched Caed’s many streams with the class and was much more pleasant to watch and akin to my own experiences with it.
There are many specualations I think for the class right now to keep discussing, I think the best choice is just to wait for the new classes to be out, let the dust settle, and then we’ll see what happens with it, since there are so many more classes implemented to the game, the meta is bound to change in some way, only time and ANet overlords can tell what will happen.

I don’t care about PvP, but I did play some DE in PvE today, and while I do actually like it, it does take getting used to, and could use some tweaking. The problem it has is that it’s a very single-target spec. It has almost nothing for multiple enemies, just a few minor effects on Utilities, and it’s core effects are based on focusing a single target.

This works to a point, but it means that when facing multiple enemies, you have to take each down one at a time, which means that the damage per enemy needs to be WAY higher than a spec that can cleave or AoE-circle entire groups. The DPS for a DE is ok, but I’m not sure it’s actually better enough when against a group of three or more enemies.

And yes, the class can be frustrating to play because of how certain mechanics are just deliberately cumbersome.

I got used to kneeling, but it would help to be able to jump out of kneel, and to have a bigger visual identifier that you’d gone into a kneel. Seeing the actual character animation is a little minimalist on an Asura. Maybe have a screen edge effect?

I like the max range circle while kneeled, but I’d like to always see the max range circle while the rifle is equipped, so that I’d know whether I was in range before kneeling.

Maybe display Malice stacks above the enemy’s head, so we could see them count up without losing sight of the target.

DE is bad for the same reason s/d condi thief is bad, because it doesn’t measure up to the monster that is d/p daredevil.

For a new thief build to be “good” it has to be better that d/p daredevil, but since d/p daredevil has everything a build could ever need and then some there is little chance of there ever being a “new meta” for thief.

As long as d/p DrD is 42, no new espec will ever be good.

Crinn.7864:

DE is bad for the same reason s/d condi thief is bad, because it doesn’t measure up to the monster that is d/p daredevil.

For a new thief build to be “good” it has to be better that d/p daredevil, but since d/p daredevil has everything a build could ever need and then some there is little chance of there ever being a “new meta” for thief.

As long as d/p DrD is 42, no new espec will ever be good.

So in your words, D/P DrD is the only way to go, when for the longest time core thieves have been murdering people before elite specs, and still do in some of the most ridiculous ways. I’m glad you’re not the one who decides what is meta and what is not.

Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497:

Crinn.7864:

DE is bad for the same reason s/d condi thief is bad, because it doesn’t measure up to the monster that is d/p daredevil.

For a new thief build to be “good” it has to be better that d/p daredevil, but since d/p daredevil has everything a build could ever need and then some there is little chance of there ever being a “new meta” for thief.

As long as d/p DrD is 42, no new espec will ever be good.

So in your words, D/P DrD is the only way to go, when for the longest time core thieves have been murdering people before elite specs, and still do in some of the most ridiculous ways. I’m glad you’re not the one who decides what is meta and what is not.

He didn’t say D/P is the only way. He said if something needs to be meta it needs to be better than D/p Daredevil. But right now D/P Dash DrD has everything a thief needs, so there won’t be another meta until D/P has beaten.

I mean people keep thinking this is a discussion of “WILL IT REPLACE IT!?” and I haven’t said or even implied that once with my posts. All I think is that it will just be on par with what is meta with DD, not replace it

Most of my posts on this forum have been in response to people thinking Rifle isn’t great, which I can agree Kneel can be a little clunky but you can get pretty used to it if you spend enough time with it. Other than that the damage is actually crazy, along with the Might gen from it. Building right you are going to be very difficult to catch even if someone engages on you and it isn’t because of dodging or having some dash when you evade, its because of the Stealth.

Think of the theme of both elite specs. Daredevil is pretty much as it says, you leap around and have great agility and you dodge constantly. Deadeye is a Sniper, think of how Sniper’s function. They are unseen, they shoot and move, they remain hidden and you don’t know you’re dead until you are. Play a Deadeye like that and you’re going to see its strengths.

Again I bring this up but its an apt example. If you’ve seen the clip of Sindrenerr trying out Trickery/Shadow Arts/Deadeye and how he plays it…he doesn’t play it well. The silly man is practically within melee range of people constantly and doesn’t even bother to gain distance and isn’t using the amount of stealth the class can get to his advantage. I’d link the clip but I have no idea where it went, however I think there are a few people here that can attest to it.

Don’t get me wrong, I can’t exactly blame him for not being used to switching right to a ranged playstyle from a purely melee one, it can take a bit to adapt. My issue with his feedback after his brief test of it is that he did not bother to even consider “Oh hey I might just not be used to it”. Humility, please.

KryTiKaL.3125:

Again I bring this up but its an apt example. If you’ve seen the clip of Sindrenerr trying out Trickery/Shadow Arts/Deadeye and how he plays it…he doesn’t play it well. The silly man is practically within melee range of people constantly and doesn’t even bother to gain distance and isn’t using the amount of stealth the class can get to his advantage. I’d link the clip but I have no idea where it went, however I think there are a few people here that can attest to it.

I remember that clip, and had much the same thoughts as you. However this isn’t something limited to sindrener. During the entire beta weekend I saw maybe 1 renegade and only a couple weavers, since both of those communities wrote their spec off as trash within hours of the beta opening.

All of the PoF elites take significant departures in gameplay, mechanics, and functionality from the base class and HoT elites, it’s going to be a long while before the community hashes out the best way to play a elite.

However I do still stand on my previous statement about DE being bad because it doesn’t surpass D/p DrD. Simply because DE’s main purpose seems to be killing power, but in conquest you only have 5 slots on your team, so burning one of those slots for a spec that only brings damage is a waste.

Crinn.7864:

KryTiKaL.3125:

Again I bring this up but its an apt example. If you’ve seen the clip of Sindrenerr trying out Trickery/Shadow Arts/Deadeye and how he plays it…he doesn’t play it well. The silly man is practically within melee range of people constantly and doesn’t even bother to gain distance and isn’t using the amount of stealth the class can get to his advantage. I’d link the clip but I have no idea where it went, however I think there are a few people here that can attest to it.

I remember that clip, and had much the same thoughts as you. However this isn’t something limited to sindrener. During the entire beta weekend I saw maybe 1 renegade and only a couple weavers, since both of those communities wrote their spec off as trash within hours of the beta opening.

All of the PoF elites take significant departures in gameplay, mechanics, and functionality from the base class and HoT elites, it’s going to be a long while before the community hashes out the best way to play a elite.

However I do still stand on my previous statement about DE being bad because it doesn’t surpass D/p DrD. Simply because DE’s main purpose seems to be killing power, but in conquest you only have 5 slots on your team, so burning one of those slots for a spec that only brings damage is a waste.

Just as in a raid.

Warrost.4895:

Crinn.7864:

KryTiKaL.3125:

Again I bring this up but its an apt example. If you’ve seen the clip of Sindrenerr trying out Trickery/Shadow Arts/Deadeye and how he plays it…he doesn’t play it well. The silly man is practically within melee range of people constantly and doesn’t even bother to gain distance and isn’t using the amount of stealth the class can get to his advantage. I’d link the clip but I have no idea where it went, however I think there are a few people here that can attest to it.

I remember that clip, and had much the same thoughts as you. However this isn’t something limited to sindrener. During the entire beta weekend I saw maybe 1 renegade and only a couple weavers, since both of those communities wrote their spec off as trash within hours of the beta opening.

All of the PoF elites take significant departures in gameplay, mechanics, and functionality from the base class and HoT elites, it’s going to be a long while before the community hashes out the best way to play a elite.

However I do still stand on my previous statement about DE being bad because it doesn’t surpass D/p DrD. Simply because DE’s main purpose seems to be killing power, but in conquest you only have 5 slots on your team, so burning one of those slots for a spec that only brings damage is a waste.

Just as in a raid.

Doesn’t even bring comparable damage.