Guild Wars 2

Let me start by asking you a question. Should anyone be able to escape over and over when chased by eight players?
looks around No?
Good! Right then, this thread is about Infiltrators Arrow and Heartseeker. Now don’t worry, I’m not gonna suggest a nerf or even a buff. What I’m gonna suggest is that these be changed to target requirement skill. As now is a Thief can just leap away or teleport away making him really hard to catch – Added to all the stealths he got. You may say I’m a bad player but I really don’t have problems killing thieves, I’m Dr Oxy Brobotnik ingame, come see me on Ring of Fire sometime if you doubt it.

I do have problems catching thieves though. With sigil of shadows which is a permanent swiftness buff thief is when using leap or teleport WAY faster than any other class. I’d be fine with it if it weren’t for all the stealths. As I see it Thief should definetly be fast and definetly number one at chasing, but shouldn’t in return have the potential to become uncatchable. It just feels like they are too good at running away (inb4 obvious "try catching mesmers). The rest of us have to use skills with CD’s and dodge rolls to run away – Why should you have it so easy?

I believe elementalists have a bit more mobility/speed than a thief. At least that’s what I found when I play my elementalist or race with my friend’s elementalist.

Oxstar.7643:

Let me start by asking you a question. Should anyone be able to escape over and over when chased by eight players?
looks around No?
Good! Right then, this thread is about Infiltrators Arrow and Heartseeker. Now don’t worry, I’m not gonna suggest a nerf or even a buff. What I’m gonna suggest is that these be changed to target requirement skill. As now is a Thief can just leap away or teleport away making him really hard to catch – Added to all the stealths he got. You may say I’m a bad player but I really don’t have problems killing thieves, I’m Dr Oxy Brobotnik ingame, come see me on Ring of Fire sometime if you doubt it.

I do have problems catching thieves though. With sigil of shadows which is a permanent swiftness buff thief is when using leap or teleport WAY faster than any other class. I’d be fine with it if it weren’t for all the stealths. As I see it Thief should definetly be fast and definetly number one at chasing, but shouldn’t in return have the potential to become uncatchable. It just feels like they are too good at running away (inb4 obvious "try catching mesmers). The rest of us have to use skills with CD’s and dodge rolls to run away – Why should you have it so easy?

Rufirant shouted, “Mates! Scowler he dancer. He do duck on nimble toes and scorns the rules of honest Hamish blow-for-blow. Seize him. Hold him. We will trade blow for blow, then. He may be firststriker, gift of me, and I—I will be last-striker.”

I have no idea what this is but it sounds awesome.

So if a thief should be the fastest at catching, how come they can’t use that same speed to run away? And have you ever chased a warrior leaping away with a sword and switching to a gs to rush and spin away just to switch back to sword and leaping away again? Now that is rediculous ontop of them using their signet for swiftness

Oxstar.7643:

With sigil of shadows which is a permanent swiftness buff

No, it isn’t, and I thoroughly enjoy using real swiftness to catch and kill thieves who make this mistake.

magicthighs.5372:

Oxstar.7643:

Let me start by asking you a question. Should anyone be able to escape over and over when chased by eight players?
looks around No?
Good! Right then, this thread is about Infiltrators Arrow and Heartseeker. Now don’t worry, I’m not gonna suggest a nerf or even a buff. What I’m gonna suggest is that these be changed to target requirement skill. As now is a Thief can just leap away or teleport away making him really hard to catch – Added to all the stealths he got. You may say I’m a bad player but I really don’t have problems killing thieves, I’m Dr Oxy Brobotnik ingame, come see me on Ring of Fire sometime if you doubt it.

I do have problems catching thieves though. With sigil of shadows which is a permanent swiftness buff thief is when using leap or teleport WAY faster than any other class. I’d be fine with it if it weren’t for all the stealths. As I see it Thief should definetly be fast and definetly number one at chasing, but shouldn’t in return have the potential to become uncatchable. It just feels like they are too good at running away (inb4 obvious "try catching mesmers). The rest of us have to use skills with CD’s and dodge rolls to run away – Why should you have it so easy?

Rufirant shouted, “Mates! Scowler he dancer. He do duck on nimble toes and scorns the rules of honest Hamish blow-for-blow. Seize him. Hold him. We will trade blow for blow, then. He may be firststriker, gift of me, and I—I will be last-striker.”

Brilliant!! Best response ever!! I bow to you, sir! /bow

Edit: I just gogled it, seventh chapter, Farmer.

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So if a thief should be the fastest at catching, how come they can’t use that same speed to run away? And have you ever chased a warrior leaping away with a sword and switching to a gs to rush and spin away just to switch back to sword and leaping away again? Now that is rediculous ontop of them using their signet for swiftness

Yes I have. The difference is that I can use a net turret to completely stop them while thieves can stealth so that it does nothing.

Oxstar.7643:

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So if a thief should be the fastest at catching, how come they can’t use that same speed to run away? And have you ever chased a warrior leaping away with a sword and switching to a gs to rush and spin away just to switch back to sword and leaping away again? Now that is rediculous ontop of them using their signet for swiftness

Yes I have. The difference is that I can use a net turret to completely stop them while thieves can stealth so that it does nothing.

Stealth, if anything, is the hard-counter to NPCs like turrets. Everyone else’s ranged immobilize/cripple/CC skills work just fine against stealthed enemies. That is the weakness incurred for having autonomous firing NPCs instead of player-aimed skills.

Tulisin.6945:

Oxstar.7643:

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So if a thief should be the fastest at catching, how come they can’t use that same speed to run away? And have you ever chased a warrior leaping away with a sword and switching to a gs to rush and spin away just to switch back to sword and leaping away again? Now that is rediculous ontop of them using their signet for swiftness

Yes I have. The difference is that I can use a net turret to completely stop them while thieves can stealth so that it does nothing.

Stealth, if anything, is the hard-counter to NPCs like turrets. Everyone else’s ranged immobilize/cripple/CC skills work just fine against stealthed enemies. That is the weakness incurred for having autonomous firing NPCs instead of player-aimed skills.

lol @ the TF2 logic.
Maybe that would be true if the turrets were actually a threat.

Oxstar.7643:

Tulisin.6945:

Oxstar.7643:

Loading.4503:

So if a thief should be the fastest at catching, how come they can’t use that same speed to run away? And have you ever chased a warrior leaping away with a sword and switching to a gs to rush and spin away just to switch back to sword and leaping away again? Now that is rediculous ontop of them using their signet for swiftness

Yes I have. The difference is that I can use a net turret to completely stop them while thieves can stealth so that it does nothing.

Stealth, if anything, is the hard-counter to NPCs like turrets. Everyone else’s ranged immobilize/cripple/CC skills work just fine against stealthed enemies. That is the weakness incurred for having autonomous firing NPCs instead of player-aimed skills.

lol @ the TF2 logic.
Maybe that would be true if the turrets were actually a threat.

Point is, if everyone has viable ways to combat stealth and turrets are the exception, the problem is not with stealth, it is with turrets.

Every class brings something to the table. Sad to see people go after thieves. Pretty well designed class. Low hp and armor..lack of healing. Fairly easy to counter if you know how to play. I suggest all the thief haters play one to see.

ok so what this guy is asking for is that the lowest hp and lowest armor class in the game should be easier to catch! gotcha… So lets take the fish out of the river and put him in a barrel so that you have an even easier chance to kill him =) sounds like an amazing idea

Oxstar.7643:

Should anyone be able to escape over and over when chased by eight players?
looks around No?

Why not? Did you design the professions? Did you balance the professions?

Do you really think the Devs were dumb enough that they gave the thief more mobility than they had originally planned?

This game has been in development for years, I’m sure they’ve designed the thief quite a few different ways before settling on this version.

It seems like the devs WANT thieves to have ways to escape. And if you can’t snare, root, stun them. . .then you deserve to watch them fly across the map

it seems rangers will get 25% from their sigils now to so i guess that close this disscussion

I remember reading a developer post where he specifically mentions thieves are supposed to be the slippery, swirmy ones you can never catch…I should dig it up. It’s a good read and is somewhat relevant.

First up, I get where you’re coming from. It’s frustrating to constantly ‘almost’ kill a thief, only for the thief to get away. Multiply this frustration by the number of people chasing the thief and then square it by the number of people the thief downed along the way. However, as a thief player since launch I will also make a few other points:

1. Thieves must also blow cooldowns to escape. Shadow Refuge, Blinding Powder, Hide in Shadows are all skills with CDs. Even Infiltrator’s Arrow and Heartseeker have a CD based on your current inititive and how much you have specced into ini regen.

2. Thieves do not have a swiftness signet. Swiftness is one of the few boons thieves get, but only by dodge-rolling and then it only lasts for the very short time of 2 seconds. The signet you are talking about grants perma 25% movespeed. As a result, other classes such as engies or eles who can gain long duration swiftness often outmatch thief movespeed when ini is low. In fact I’ll be upfront here and say that there are ele builds that outright surpass the thief in terms of speed and escapability. Multiple dashes with low CDs, outstanding access to long-duration swiftness, AoE knockdowns – good D/D eles are mobile, scary and able to tackle/escape large groups when done right as you should know. Good eles troll me as well by constantly using lightning rush to get away with 10% health, only to switch to water and heal to full before reengaging. If thief had unsurpassed mobility with no CDs, this wouldn’t be so.

3. An interesting idea to make HS/Inf Arrow require a target. I can see this making sense with HS since it was clearly designed as a damage skill, but the non-damaging Inf Arrow was clearly designed specifically for mobility as a blind+escape mechanism. Also Inf Arrow shortcuts to accessible ledges wouldn’t work if it required target, changing thieves from great roamer to poor roamer.

4. Not all thieves can escape like this, just like not all eles can. Some very viable thief builds simply don’t use stealth. They are rare, but they are some players’ preference. Other players don’t use Shortbow as a weapon. However if a thief chooses to spend skillpoints to improve their escapability, I don’t see a problem with that. A bigger ini pool, faster ini regen, more stealth skills, longer stealth duration, more toughness etc etc… all this means means less damage for the thief.

5. At the end of the day, if a thief can’t be caught and killed the problem lies with you and your group. I’m not saying L2P OMG you can’t kill a single thief – I know how hard we can be to pin down – but if you let a thief troll 8 of you into chasing him, he’s wasting your time and benefiting his team, whether it be in WvW or SPvP. If you just keep driving the thief away, but otherwise ignore him, you will then be wasting HIS time and you will be benefiting your own team instead.

Finally,

The difference is that I can use a net turret to completely stop them while thieves can stealth so that it does nothing.

Wouldn’t a well-specced greatsword warrior just use a dash skill to break immobilize?

So in short I get your frustration. I feel it too in some matchups even playing a thief. However at the end of the day if a good player of whatever class trolls you into wasting your time in pvp, I’m sorry, but they’ve gotten the better of you.

You’re spitting on one of the core fundamentals of the Thief’s design.

Thieves are suppose to be slipper elusive untouchable sorts.

I’m sorry, but if you’re frustrated by how difficult it is to catch a good thief,
then you deserve the same response people on LoL forums deserve when they mistake something intentional for something broken…

-WORKING AS INTENDED-

You say other classes don’t have it so easy.
Well, Thieves don’t get the innate defensive power of Guardians.
Thieves don’t get the illusions of the Mesmer.
Thieves don’t get the utilities of the Engineer.

I could go on, but you get the idea.

Quick hating on Thieves for their strong point, it’s all they got. Just like how your main’s class’ strong point is all its got.

kenshinakh.3672:

I believe elementalists have a bit more mobility/speed than a thief. At least that’s what I found when I play my elementalist or race with my friend’s elementalist.

Idk man, on my thief I’ve been able to catch up to d/d ele’s when I feel the need to chase one down. It may be they thought they were fast enough so they didn’t push it, but I haven’t really had trouble catching any class. There is definitely some ring of truth to the OP’s post.

I can perfectly understand your frustation, but there’s several stuff you’ve got completly wrong.

Oxstar.7643:

With sigil of shadows which is a permanent swiftness buff thief is when using leap or teleport WAY faster than any other class. I’d be fine with it if it weren’t for all the stealths. As I see it Thief should definetly be fast and definetly number one at chasing, but shouldn’t in return have the potential to become uncatchable.

-Sigil is 25% ms, swiftness is 33% ms + sigil´s passive does not work while in combat. A thief trying to scape is more than likely in combat.
-There’s 2 ways for a thief to teleport away from a combat: blink utility, which is also the thief’s only stunt breaker and has a 50sec cd. Second is infil arrow, high initiative cost and most importantly doesn’t break stunt root.
-Heartseek is completly invalidated if the thief is ralentized, specially by chill, the gap/space you move gets highly reduced while in that state so it can’t be used as an scape way and most of times you can’t even hit a moving target with it.
-2 ways for a thief that is not in melee range to get invis: the heal (which lasts 3sec) and two utilities (smoke is short duration stealth and the field requires you to stay inside it for 5 seconds without moving; if you move out ot it or are knocked back of it before that time, not only you automatically lose your stealth but also gain the revealed debuff).
-Classes like ele have no problem at all catching with you even after you blink away if they use offhand dagger, then just use some cc in you now that you have used your only stunt breaker, giving rest of ele’s mates time to catch up. Also a guardian has several “teleport to target” skills (n3 GS + n2 sword + a low cd utility). Another thief can catch up the thief also easily. Other classes have more stuff to help with it.

So yeah, a well played thief can scape easier than other classes IF it has all his deffensive cds up and nearly full initiative, and even like that there are ways to counter it. And at the same time that thief dies easier than any other class as soon as he has used them. kitten even his blink has 2.5times more cd than other blinks like for example mesmer’s.

Well my gear isn’t the best but its all exotics that could be better, I crit for about 2.3k MAX in any one attack (S&P – SB) which is well below what I’m hit for in one attack loads. However I spec for utility and mobility, I spec for the chase and the escape. Its my strength and the most important part of the is the playstyle which requires – situational awareness; this is the make or break of my play the do or die, and to be fair I die rarely, because I try to be very aware of distance and location and actions of enemies. It becomes like instinct. Sometimes I think people expect the very excellent quote about from Farmer – stand still til’ I come over and hit ye. Our class dynamic is to not. I’m far from any awesome thief but I really don’t think thieves are OP in any way. I learnt early if I didn’t want to die I had better not stand still. I’ve also advised other players that in some instances in WvW like D&P culling dancers, just ignore them and leave them. As a thief I’ve learnt to not allow other thieves kill me, and I think other classes probably can do that too.

Like Forty Seven Ninjas.6982:

kenshinakh.3672:

I believe elementalists have a bit more mobility/speed than a thief. At least that’s what I found when I play my elementalist or race with my friend’s elementalist.

Idk man, on my thief I’ve been able to catch up to d/d ele’s when I feel the need to chase one down. It may be they thought they were fast enough so they didn’t push it, but I haven’t really had trouble catching any class. There is definitely some ring of truth to the OP’s post.

Thieves can match/surpass D/D elementalist mobility given that the thief is specced for it. The difference being that your average combat-spec D/D ele has better mobility than your average combat-spec thief (who just takes shadow step and a shortbow swap).

Seragi.5910:

ok so what this guy is asking for is that the lowest hp and lowest armor class in the game should be easier to catch! gotcha… So lets take the fish out of the river and put him in a barrel so that you have an even easier chance to kill him =) sounds like an amazing idea

Thieves have medium armor =/= to lowest armor in game. That would be the Elementalist good sir. Lowest armor and Lowest HP.

Oxstar.7643:

The rest of us have to use skills with CD’s and dodge rolls to run away – Why should you have it so easy?

Because ANet made this class like this.Again initiative system is presented as big advantage of thieves against other,while in fact its our biggest perma curse.You wanna know why?Because it dooms us to have mediocre skills for eternity.No I WIN buttons,no stuns,knockdowns,stability,pushbacks,protection,reflection,invulnerability e.t.c.You might say that Infiltrators Arrow is an “I Win” button.No it isn’t .It is at best “I might get away” button.And believe it or not many thieves don’t use Short Bow.The only reliable defense mechanic we have is Stealth.

And here what you wrote about Stealth in other topic:

“I will say this.
Even in WoW Blizzard had the common sense to only let Rogues have ONE dissapear in front of your eyes skill and it had a reasonable cooldown – I mean, cmon, was the Thief lead developer on drugs?”

OK,lets discuss this a little.One disappear?Make it Two with Preparation.Also when a thief is vanishing he Vanishes permanently.It’s like 100% get away.How about Cheating Death.How about the WoW Rogues stun capabilities.His Evasion skill.Smoke Bomb?Stealth in WoW is designed for two events:Before you attack and before you die.In GW2 it’s the bread and butter of the thief defense along with mobility.You cry against both….and yet you say that you don’t have problems with Thieves.You wrote you name,fair enough.I never met you in SPvP/TPvP,i wish i met you,apparently you know a things that others(including the ANet Chief developer) does not.

In the same moment the devs kept calling the thief is considered the class which should be the most slippery and hard to catch they also mentioned shortbow being too strong as for the current state.

The true curse is the ignorance of thieves who think this class is fine. Since it’s not. Certain specs are borderline OP and the recent nerfs we had almost never touched the really issue about them. I mean the real threat were those backstab burst thieves and those bleeding unicorn thieves (D/D + P/D or SB, with caltrops and almost perma stealth + evade) and not the sword thieves.

Stealth ain’t your onliest defense. When i combin all my evasive style attacks (leaping death blossom, withdrawal, roll for iniative … and lot’s of more) with my dodge rolls i can evade for almost 15 seconds permanently. If my endurance runs out I have stealth, if I don’t have stealth left I can rely on initiative to dodge/stealth. If I run out of initiative my endurance is back up for more evades since I can keep vigor up all the time. If both my initiative or endurance runs out I still have shadow refuge to reset the fight.

And alltho this isn’t enough allready we can regenerate decent health while in stealth when specced deep down the shadow arts traitline + leeching venoms. And for those heals you don’t even have to use any healing power at all to make them worth it.

My thief is the onliest char where I had no use for toughness gear so far, as I rarely (most likely never) was hit anyway. Therefor I call him out for having the “perfect defense”.

I suggest you playing another class atleast once and compare it to the backstab burst / unicorn build.

silvershadez.8421:

In the same moment the devs kept calling the thief is considered the class which should be the most slippery and hard to catch they also mentioned shortbow being too strong as for the current state.

The true curse is the ignorance of thieves who think this class is fine. Since it’s not. Certain specs are borderline OP and the recent nerfs we had almost never touched the really issue about them. I mean the real threat were those backstab burst thieves and those bleeding unicorn thieves (D/D + P/D or SB, with caltrops and almost perma stealth + evade) and not the sword thieves.

Stealth ain’t your onliest defense. When i combin all my evasive style attacks (leaping death blossom, withdrawal, roll for iniative … and lot’s of more) with my dodge rolls i can evade for almost 15 seconds permanently. If my endurance runs out I have stealth, if I don’t have stealth left I can rely on initiative to dodge/stealth. If I run out of initiative my endurance is back up for more evades since I can keep vigor up all the time. If both my initiative or endurance runs out I still have shadow refuge to reset the fight.

And alltho this isn’t enough allready we can regenerate decent health while in stealth when specced deep down the shadow arts traitline + leeching venoms. And for those heals you don’t even have to use any healing power at all to make them worth it.

My thief is the onliest char where I had no use for toughness gear so far, as I rarely (most likely never) was hit anyway. Therefor I call him out for having the “perfect defense”.

I suggest you playing another class atleast once and compare it to the backstab burst / unicorn build.

I wish i was able to do such “miracles” with my thief…Would i bother you too much if i ask you to upload a video of yours?Just a single full map video,uncutted,unedited so we might learn something from your “perfect defense”?

Otaur.9268:

Seragi.5910:

ok so what this guy is asking for is that the lowest hp and lowest armor class in the game should be easier to catch! gotcha… So lets take the fish out of the river and put him in a barrel so that you have an even easier chance to kill him =) sounds like an amazing idea

Thieves have medium armor =/= to lowest armor in game. That would be the Elementalist good sir. Lowest armor and Lowest HP.

oh man im sorry, my thief build has 13k hp and 900 toughness… please enlighten me on how your ele build is less hp and less armor? Also please tell me how my 1 heal skill matchs your 2 wep skill heals with combo AoE heals on top of your normal functioning heal? End of story Stop QQ cause your bad at your class

changing infiltrators arrow too a target only skill would effectively ruin it, its not a buff or a nerf its a death.. u really thing a small blind and teleport too target is worth 6 ini, when you would have to swap weaps to actually take advantage of a gap closer in that situation. would be pointlessly bad, maybe just fix it so some of the current places u can teleport through arent possible, bugging through walls etc, though personally i think its fun, its surely unintended :P

Seragi.5910:

oh man im sorry, my thief build has 13k hp and 900 toughness… please enlighten me on how your ele build is less hp and less armor???

Elementalists have less armor. Period. You seldom see true GC elementalists because unlike thieves they lack the best proactive defense in the game: stealth, so they go down almost instantly. True, they can crit for 20k with a setup, but that’s hardly worth it unless you have stealth.

Seragi.5910:

Also please tell me how my 1 heal skill matchs your 2 wep skill heals with combo AoE heals on top of your normal functioning heal??? End of story Stop QQ cause your bad at your class

It is as wrong to say this as it is wrong to say, “Thieves are immune to conditions because of Hide in Shadows.” Why would you say it? Elementalist heal bunker builds exist, but they are very difficult to balance with good attack power and they still lack the amazing proactive defense of stealth.

ZLE.8293:

I wish i was able to do such “miracles” with my thief…Would i bother you too much if i ask you to upload a video of yours?Just a single full map video,uncutted,unedited so we might learn something from your “perfect defense”?

My comp sucks for recording. If you still insist on watching something similar to my spec then go and have a look at Slic’s “Yippie Kye Yay 6” video. He has a similar playstyle + spec, except that I tend to use only Withdrawal as my main heal and some different major traits + caltrops utility + refuge.

I rarely die in a wvw scenario when being heavily outnumbered while I’am alone. Most of the times I die i kitten** up with a cloak and dagger (going into a blind or aegis), which is mostly my own fault. I can even go 2 vs 1 on decent players while playing sPvP with this. Can’t reproduce that on my other chars (Ele, Mesmer, Engi, Necro) tho.

Seragi.5910:

Otaur.9268:

Thieves have medium armor =/= to lowest armor in game. That would be the Elementalist good sir. Lowest armor and Lowest HP.

oh man im sorry, my thief build has 13k hp and 900 toughness… please enlighten me on how your ele build is less hp and less armor? Also please tell me how my 1 heal skill matchs your 2 wep skill heals with combo AoE heals on top of your normal functioning heal? End of story Stop QQ cause your bad at your class

That is correct, though. Nothing said was untrue, so I do not understand the harsh response.

Elementalist has the lowest armor + HP in the game.

These are the baseline hp/armor numbers:

Thief- HP: 10805 / Armor: 1980
Elementalist- HP: 10805 / Armor: 1836

This isn’t about builds, it is about hardcoded system. It is what it is.

kenshinakh.3672:

I believe elementalists have a bit more mobility/speed than a thief. At least that’s what I found when I play my elementalist or race with my friend’s elementalist.

Elementals have WAY more escape tactics than a thieve. The OP simply wants to complain about the class he/she hates the most.

I have watched Ele’s drag groups across the map while they continually escape EVERY fight over and over.

Like Forty Seven Ninjas.6982:

kenshinakh.3672:

I believe elementalists have a bit more mobility/speed than a thief. At least that’s what I found when I play my elementalist or race with my friend’s elementalist.

Idk man, on my thief I’ve been able to catch up to d/d ele’s when I feel the need to chase one down. It may be they thought they were fast enough so they didn’t push it, but I haven’t really had trouble catching any class. There is definitely some ring of truth to the OP’s post.

As far as I know, D/D Ele is fastest:
- 100% swiftness uptime (20ish+ arcane)
- 1200 leap forwards every 15sec (RTL, 12sec traited with 20 air)
- 600 leap forwards ever 15sec (BS)
- 900 range teleport every 30sec (utility)

Pretty sure that beats shortbow 5/heartseeker/evade-swiftness spam with SoS and steal.

Theif has way better escape tactics though through shadowsteps and stealth, Ele only has the teleport and RTL.

mjharrison.3209:

Pretty sure that beats shortbow 5/heartseeker/evade-swiftness spam with SoS and steal.

If you’re going for max speed you aren’t using SoS anyways, you’re just getting perma swiftness. You also can’t discount things like Roll for Initiative giving thieves the benefit of long-range movement as well as enough initiative to burn two more Heartseekers. Withdraw also matches BS pound-for-pound at 600 every 15 seconds.

KirinDave.6451:

Seragi.5910:

oh man im sorry, my thief build has 13k hp and 900 toughness… please enlighten me on how your ele build is less hp and less armor???

Elementalists have less armor. Period. You seldom see true GC elementalists because unlike thieves they lack the best proactive defense in the game: stealth, so they go down almost instantly. True, they can crit for 20k with a setup, but that’s hardly worth it unless you have stealth.

Seragi.5910:

Also please tell me how my 1 heal skill matchs your 2 wep skill heals with combo AoE heals on top of your normal functioning heal??? End of story Stop QQ cause your bad at your class

It is as wrong to say this as it is wrong to say, “Thieves are immune to conditions because of Hide in Shadows.” Why would you say it? Elementalist heal bunker builds exist, but they are very difficult to balance with good attack power and they still lack the amazing proactive defense of stealth.

what delusional world do these people live in?? Stealth is not this all powerful defensive skill. you still take condi dmg you still get hit by channeled attacks and you can still be hit by aoe dmg…. stealth doesnt do anything at all except disrupt focus for 3 seconds. thats it nothing more nothing less…. also ele have stone armor which reduces incoming dmg by 33% ele also have several CC abilities such as knockdowns chills and blowouts… thiefs have none of this. the only cc thieves have are utilities. I’m sorry if you dont know how to counter a thief with you classes potential. Fact of the matter is that any competent ele would never lose to a thief period

silvershadez.8421:

My comp sucks for recording. If you still insist on watching something similar to my spec then go and have a look at Slic’s “Yippie Kye Yay 6” video. He has a similar playstyle + spec, except that I tend to use only Withdrawal as my main heal and some different major traits + caltrops utility + refuge.

I don’t need to watch his videos(which btw are quite good). I know perfectly what you are talking about.Here is a little video of mine,which i uploaded more than 2 months ago,and by that time i was already rank 30 with condition build.The point is that i don’t see this play style as OP.If i have invested such time,playing other class i recon i would do OK with it as well…

I don’t get the point of this discussion. I play an elementalist and I can get a 20 second uptime on swiftness, pLus I have ride the lightning + lightning flash (teleport). No one can outrun that. And when they stealth, just use your brains. Where would you go if you were in that thief’s shoes?

That brings me to the next point; what’s so OP about running away? I smell coward each time someone tries to escape me. Most of the time it’s not even worth the while to run after them. A fleeing opponent is not doing any harm. Just watch him and be ready to assault him in case he’s stupid enough to return to the battle he just lost once.

I can understand people having problems with our burst damage or stealth, but our mobility is fine, really.

Seragi.5910:

ok so what this guy is asking for is that the lowest hp and lowest armor class in the game should be easier to catch! gotcha… So lets take the fish out of the river and put him in a barrel so that you have an even easier chance to kill him =) sounds like an amazing idea

Thief is mid armor. There’s one tier below that. Do you play this game or just log on the forums to complain about people complaining?

Seragi.5910:

Stealth is not this all powerful defensive skill. you still take condi dmg you still get hit by channeled attacks and you can still be hit by aoe dmg…. stealth doesnt do anything at all except disrupt focus for 3 seconds.

While you’re right, “you can still be hit by AE damage” continues to perpetuate the idea that AE is the counter to stealth, which it isn’t. You don’t need AE, all attacks work fine against stealth. Tossing AEs all over the ground is a waste of time and resources, the counter to stealth is figuring out where the stealthed person is and hitting them.

Jefzor.7145:

I can understand people having problems with our burst damage or stealth, but our mobility is fine, really.

Stealth is wrongly being blamed for thief survivability when mostly it is mobility. Stealth does catch a lot of flak, but only because people don’t understand how thieves escape. If someone wants to make a thread called “thief mobility is overpowered, nerf it” then we can at least have a legitimate discussion, as opposed to the calls for stealth nerfs that are borne of simply not understanding what stealth brings to the table.

kenshinakh.3672:

I believe elementalists have a bit more mobility/speed than a thief. At least that’s what I found when I play my elementalist or race with my friend’s elementalist.

Out of combat? … MAYBE…

In combat? Heeeeeeeeeeellll no…

Tulisin.6945:

Oxstar.7643:

With sigil of shadows which is a permanent swiftness buff

No, it isn’t, and I thoroughly enjoy using real swiftness to catch and kill thieves who make this mistake.

Unless you’re playing a thief, you’re lying. If you’re not playing a thief, you can’t catch a thief. Assuming s/he isn’t a nub and knows how to spam a shadowstep skill.

Of course I know you play the thief class from previous posts.

Tulisin.6945:

Stealth, if anything, is the hard-counter to NPCs like turrets. Everyone else’s ranged immobilize/cripple/CC skills work just fine against stealthed enemies. That is the weakness incurred for having autonomous firing NPCs instead of player-aimed skills.

Except CC doesn’t do jack to shadowstep. It shortens all movement skills except shadowstep.

Do you need to play more classes than a thief to understand the true mechancis of the game? Yes. Kinda like how you need to play more than a mesmer to get how blind, block, out of range, and miss could change your strategy; then realize how OP they were before LoS was implemented for that class.

Redscope.6215:

Tulisin.6945:

Stealth, if anything, is the hard-counter to NPCs like turrets. Everyone else’s ranged immobilize/cripple/CC skills work just fine against stealthed enemies. That is the weakness incurred for having autonomous firing NPCs instead of player-aimed skills.

Except CC doesn’t do jack to shadowstep. It shortens all movement skills except shadowstep.

My comment was in regards to how ineffective net turret is against stealthed targets. If you want to argue that thief mobility (via things like shadowstep) is the true heart of their survivability, then I absolutely agree. The question then becomes: is that mobility out of line given the dynamics of the thief profession?

And thieves certainly aren’t the only thing that can catch thieves, I’ve brought down fleeing thieves on an elementalist and a warrior as well. The catch here is that your average thief (only using shadow step and SB swap) has vastly better mobility than the average of any other profession (likely using 1 mobility skill), but someone of another profession who is specializing in mobility (permaswiftness, multiple mobility skills) can catch an average thief.

The rest of us have to use skills with CD’s and dodge rolls to run away – Why should you have it so easy?

OK..shadowstep which is a skill I have to choose above a damage skill is most certainly on a cool down. I also have to dodge. SOS does not give much of a buff in speed when combat is initiated, so much so I don’t slot it. Infiltrators arrow costs initiative and therefore is limited and essentially on a cool down until initiative builds.

But you’re right I don’t want to be caught and rarely am. I’m trying to figure out however if this is a proper discussion or a discussion for people who don’t have reactions. A friend of mine is a glass canon warrior and man do I res her all the time or what. Obviously survival is not on her menu. I like not dying as much as killing, in fact the latter without the former is pretty pointless to me so I play with an eye on not dying. Some players do not do this. Is this a thread from someone who expects not to die without actually trying not to?

Actually that was off topic…this was about catching thieves wasn’t it. You can class and spec for it but if you don’t you won’t. Just like I spec for getting away. If i don’t I won’t.

Oxstar.7643:

Let me start by asking you a question. Should anyone be able to escape over and over when chased by eight players?
looks around No?

If he is quicker than them… Yes

Anything else?

ok..gonna summarize the thief in a short statement.

Thief is a HIT AND RUN CLASS. that does dmg and then runs away.

if it can’t run away then it doesnt work.

thief is working as expected right now.

A HIT AND RUN CLASS, LOOK IT UP.

arenta.2953:

ok..gonna summarize the thief in a short statement.

Thief is a HIT AND RUN CLASS. that does dmg and then runs away.

if it can’t run away then it doesnt work.

thief is working as expected right now.

A HIT AND RUN CLASS, LOOK IT UP.

This is not true. Thieves can be played with a hit-and-run play style, it is not an innate attribute of the profession.