Guild Wars 2

Hi there!
I was playing my mesmer when a thief do repetealy 13.6 k of dmg from backstab in pvp (with classic combo)
the only thing i think is: how can u do such dmg? i also have a thief that i use in pvp 4 fun, but with my full glass cannon build i can only do maybe 7k of dmg from backstab..
any suggestion?
(ps i use the classic 30/30/0/0/10 build+classic combo BV+AS+C&D+steal+BS)
i use anything wrong?

whats your runes? Sigils? How many might stacks?

rune i have tried both eagle and divinity (not change the dmg a lot) SS of accuracy+SS of air..
might stacks i don t remember..usually i don’t care about that..here was the problem?

Use 6 scholar runes for another 10% bonus damage.

And to get the highest raw backstab number, you need to have 7 initiative or more when it lands. When you do the combo in this order “BV+AS+C&D+steal+BS”, with only 10 points in trickery you only have 6 initiative left so you are missing on 10% bonus damage. You can increase BS damage a lot by using AS after C&D lands and before you BS. Or you replace your 30/30/0/0/10 build with a 25/30/0/0/15 to get 3 extra initiative max and you can keep your current “skill rotation”.

stof.9341:

Use 6 scholar runes for another 10% bonus damage.

And to get the highest raw backstab number, you need to have 7 initiative or more when it lands. When you do the combo in this order “BV+AS+C&D+steal+BS”, with only 10 points in trickery you only have 6 initiative left so you are missing on 10% bonus damage. You can increase BS damage a lot by using AS after C&D lands and before you BS. Or you replace your 30/30/0/0/10 build with a 25/30/0/0/15 to get 3 extra initiative max and you can keep your current “skill rotation”.

yep i try to use 25/30/0/0/15 and take more initiative 4 the 10% more dmg..but that not change 7 to 13.6 k..xD i’ll try also the scholar rune and see what happen..

no picture say a hammer

Well, to change a 7k backstab to a 13k, the best way is to aim for the back, not the front :p

And the less obvious ones : don’t test your damage on a high toughness player neither on a Protection covered player.

With http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQJAo4kUmLOxfORs9wn7ko+HArODa2SA;TgAg0UcZ4SwllLHXSuGFA

25/30/0/0/15 (Maximum burst damage)

Damage increases:
5% Sigil
5% Flanking Strikes
5% Dagger Training
10% Exposed Weakness
10% First Strikes
10% Scholar Runes
15% Assassin’s Signet

For a total of 60% damage.

Now using only BV > AS > CnD > Mug > BS the backstab will do up to:

981 * 2304 * (2.42 * 2.03) * 1.6 / 1800 = 9896 Damage vs a GC light armour class with no defence.

In order to deal more damage than that, Bloodlust Stacks would be necessary

981 * 2554 * (2.42 * 2.03) * 1.6 / 1800 = 10940 Damage vs a GC light armour class with no defence.

Okay so more Signets to be used for more Might stacks, using 1 extra signet (Extra 5 Might)

981 * 2729 * (2.42 * 2.03) * 1.6 / 1800 = 11690

Still not quite there… Lets go all out with all utilities being Signets for a total of 15 Might!

981 * 2904 * (2.42 * 2.03) * 1.6 / 1800 = 12440

Aw shucks… I guess we’ll have to also use the Healing skill signet for another 5 Might, totalling 20 Might stacks

981 * 3079 * (2.42 * 2.03) * 1.6 / 1800 = 13189

Still short, lets add on 5 Vulnerability stacks
981 * 3079 * (2.42 * 2.03) * 1.65 / 1800 = 13601

In short, using the ultimate burst combo (20 Might + 60% Damage modification) from a thief, requiring running with 4 Signets and pre-popping them, the thief still needs an additional 2 Vulnerability stack vs a Light armour GC target with no toughness to pull off 13.6k damage.

13.6k backstab is extremeeely rare. I smile to myself every time I land an upwards of 9k backstab in PvP (and this is after Executioner has come into play). To maximize the damage, though:
25/30/0/0/15 – Mug, Dagger damage, Side Strike, Signets of Power, Executioner, Thrill of Crime.
Scholar/Ogre runes, Sigil of Fire + Force, Berserker’s Amulet/Jewel.

Shadowstep, Refuge, Assassin’s Signet.

Make sure you burst the target while you have the initiative (hopefully on a target with a condition and less than 50% HP, lulz), and do it quick as the stacks of might from Signets of Power last 5 seconds. Hope for the best. This is the max possible burst you can attain as a thief.

You forgot the Executioner trait ?

With http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoYVlcmKOHcS5E/5Ex2DfKUe6VAsaPoZLvJA;ToAg0Cno4ywlgLLXOukcNoYWA

You can get 22 stacks of might and +80% dmg. Against a full glass cannon build with 916 toughness, you can deal up to 15K I would say.

Anvi.1802:

With http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoYVlcmKOHcS5E/5Ex2DfKUe6VAsaPoZLvJA;ToAg0Cno4ywlgLLXOukcNoYWA

You can get 22 stacks of might and +80% dmg. Against a full glass cannon build with 916 toughness, you can deal up to 15K I would say.

Technically yes, but bear in mind, using CnD to gain stealth (I.E. The only way you can in that build) you lose out on the +10% damage from First Strikes due to being taken below 7 initiative (Unless you wait around for 1.33 seconds to regen up, and pray that the target doesn’t stun break and counter you)

The damage that the backstab would deal with the 25 Bloodlust, 22 might, +80% damage on a light armour target with no toughness/protection would be (Including the 3 Vuln from Cloak and Dagger):

981 * 3414 * (2.42 * 2.08) * 1.83 / 1800 = 17139

Compared to something like Eviscerate on the same target with a 30/10/0/0/10 using 13 Might (FGJ + SoM + SoR) + 18 Vulnerability (OMM + Axe #2 + Mace #4)

1048 * 3009 * (3.04 * 2.18) * 1.53 / 1800 = 17763 that can be done to a full health target.

Taril.8619:

Anvi.1802:

With http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoYVlcmKOHcS5E/5Ex2DfKUe6VAsaPoZLvJA;ToAg0Cno4ywlgLLXOukcNoYWA

You can get 22 stacks of might and +80% dmg. Against a full glass cannon build with 916 toughness, you can deal up to 15K I would say.

Technically yes, but bear in mind, using CnD to gain stealth (I.E. The only way you can in that build) you lose out on the +10% damage from First Strikes due to being taken below 7 initiative (Unless you wait around for 1.33 seconds to regen up, and pray that the target doesn’t stun break and counter you)

No I would not, since I use Signet Use (+2 initiative when using a signet) I just have to precast the signet of malice, then CnD, then use the other 3 signet in an instant (no animation, no cast time) before my backstab, that will regen my initiative entirely.

i’ve taken an image of that dmg..xD but yes we absolutely need mights stacks for do that dmg as well..also the 15 in shadow arts is needed, for the use of BS after C&D at full powa..and the rune must be scholar i think..the combination of powa+cd+10% dmg is very well..
and i think in the 25/30/0/0/15 that executioner is the best (+20% dmg under 50% lf) because we already have a cc very high..

Madara.3126:

and i think in the 25/30/0/0/15 that executioner is the best (+20% dmg under 50% lf) because we already have a cc very high..

Executioner vs Hidden Killer generally comes down to:

Do you want to risk a non-crit, thus blowing everything you have and not getting a kill?

Will your target be below 50% health when the Backstab comes? If CnD > Mug doesn’t crit (Or you don’t stack up your Might beforehand to regain initiative after CnD) or the target isn’t full GC then they may not be if you’re starting with the combo on a full health target (A lower health target may be more secure in this)

I do that regularly to GC’s in SPVP when running a silly build. I ensure I CnD before burning 3 signets so have a full stack of init when I land Mug, might from Thrill of the crime as well so you alway sland with a minimum of 16 stacks. Sometimes for giggles I may stick 20 stacks of vuln on them with a pistol before going into the BS rotation as well.

But it is a silly build, burning SoS as part of the sigil burn does mean they are blind, but it’s still easy to counter. Having said that it does harvest very high glory numbers. If I want to turbocharge my glory I switch to this and smash stuff up.

Executioner is for the evasive type of play, where you stick to your target and deal sustained damage. If you want bursts, get the 100% crit trait…

Btw, I once thought about ditching 100% crit and getting S/D+D/P.
CnD with s/d, swap to D/P, which conveniently got a sigil of intelligence → guaranteed crit opener…

What about +crit damage %? The math above is all about straight damage % increases, but what about high crit damage?

You need to be full burst to hit for 13.5k on a bs.
Your mesmer needs to be complete glass.

Just use a stun break+immunity or stun break+teleport to avoid further damage and break the basi. You will live and prob kill the thief. He can only do it once every 45s.

LordSlack.4685:

What about +crit damage %? The math above is all about straight damage % increases, but what about high crit damage?

The math I did used crit damage (Using Zerker Amulet since it was a PvP discussion)

The number in the brackets are the Skill Coefficient * Crit Multiplier.

I.E. The damage the skill does times by how much crit damage you have.

swinsk.6410:

You need to be full burst to hit for 13.5k on a bs.
Your mesmer needs to be complete glass.

Just use a stun break+immunity or stun break+teleport to avoid further damage and break the basi. You will live and prob kill the thief. He can only do it once every 45s.

he kill me 1 time when we’re facing each other..the other time meanwhile i was kill his allie..;) i’m not that noob with mesmer, au contraire my friend
so i try the thief 25/30/0/0/15 and i do 11.7 k dmg from backstab..and the critical dmg is maximazed..we need only +mights stack (i use 2 signet before atk, maybe i must use also the heal signet before)

Edit : there has been some deleting going on. This post isn’t relevant anymore.

My theorycraft is rather simple. You were in WvW against maybe upleveled players and maybe players with masterwork gear.

And the whole topic so far was for sPvP with weaker berserker gear, no food and against 100% level cap with fully exotic level 80 geared players (obviously).