Thief Collaborative Development a Success
It’s great seeing the extent to which our suggestions have affected the patch notes. It really shows how much the devs value player feedback.
[Help],
Fort Aspenwood
Fort Aspenwood
The seriousness of this thread is overwhelming.
Actually, I really hoped they introduced new changes with the 10 december patch, not only a copy/paste of the november preview. I have written a 2 post lenght “essay” speaking about useless and never used traits/builds (assassin’s retreat, hard to catch, venoms’ problems) and I’ve not even been taken into consideration.
It’s not so much collaborative development as it is “hey, we’re going to do this. Don’t make ascended versions of this weapon if you don’t like it.” At least we’re getting fair warnings now.
This happened last balance patch. Lots of talk, and then they did what they want. PLEASE stop thinking that they’re actually trying to get feedback.
They don’t want your feedback.
This is a regular tactic used – it acclimates people to the changes, and then when someone complains, they can say, “you weren’t part of the discussion”. So it works both ways.
Don’t bother. While I completely expected exactly this, I can’t help but feel slighted. Again.
You give them feedback and have nothing.
ANet i’m disappointed.
Guess all we have left to do is just go play bell choir, it is the only thing thief can still be good at if we try really hard.
Collaboration? I think that doesn’t change anything from what Dev had in mind.Hopefully the after Nerf feed back will make them see the mistake.
I’ll just leave this here, since my original topic (containing the text below) was merged into my December 10th changes thread. :/
Don’t get me wrong. I love my Thief and I’m not giving her up. The risk versus reward can be a challenge sometimes, but that’s with all professions (for the most part). Sometimes balance is frustrating (and infuriating)…
Completely pointless profession in its current state. What a shame. I loved it so much, and put so much time in to her, and now after the profession has been constantly broken down and dismantled piece by piece, the Thief is totally useless.
A profession that relies on being stealthy and slippery and a dev comes out and basically says Thieves need to commit more time in (close quarters) combat. lolwut? Nerf and limit the escapes and avoidance and moving traits to shove them down our throats because Thieves are not playing the way the devs want?
I think you’ve spent too much team time on Warriors and expecting Thieves to do what they do. Totally selfish and lazy balancing. That’s because there are no devs committed to the profession, that much is obvious. We are a minor bullet point on an agenda that people just want to get past as soon as possible when discussing changes.
Developers tout “community initiative” to garner feedback from players with respect to their (and other) classes, yet totally, completely, and utterly ignore it. Corporations do it all the time with their company communications regarding changes, in an attempt to bond and relate to employees as a precursor to giving them undesired news, all under the guise of, “We are trying to work with you.”
Same goes for ArenaNet. I’ve never seen so much player interaction and feedback (for the most part, in the positive), attempting to work through/with ArenaNet’s perceived “issues”, with so little developer response and/or action. And when we do, it’s a bullkitten blanket post that addresses none of the concerns the community has at the forefront. (Perma-stealth needed to go, that I do agree with.) Hell, the developer can’t even type a clearly thought out post or responses with proper spelling or grammar. Just a canned introduction to changes and repeated in (the few) responses. Same text that is in the patch notes. A perfect example of “because I said so” development if I ever saw one.
Perhaps if you spent less time on the Living Story (which is trash in that it is really just the same process all over in different areas with different mobs and names) and more time on balance, you would see a change in the community attitude (and not just the Thief one… except maybe Warriors.)
Damage Dolly
we all began as something else
we all began as something else
(edited by xmtrcv.5236)
Yup. This. I mean, I’m guilty of it myself on my own profession, but I usually pick at least one or two points that I can capitulate on, which makes it at least LOOK like I’m listening.
Copy/Paste before and after “collaboration” being the same is just so sloppy to the point that their collaboration attempt is a transparent “you WILL swallow this pill” push.
I mean, they did reverse the Trickster / Flanking Strikes change.
You can’t say they changed nothing at all when they actually did.
When we mentioned that dancing dagger was not matching the stated duration they also fixed the tooltip for us. . .
I mean, they did reverse the Trickster / Flanking Strikes change.
You can’t say they changed nothing at all when they actually did.
They also rolled back some of the Vigor duration nerf. The original drop was 50% to both BT and VR.
I mean, they did reverse the Trickster / Flanking Strikes change.
You can’t say they changed nothing at all when they actually did.
They also rolled back some of the Vigor duration nerf. The original drop was 50% to both BT and VR.
Yeah. When there’s a huge balance push, as is for every single class in this game, they’re not going to do the exact opposite like everyone on here seemed to want. That’s just silly to expect. They fixed two of the things I thought were really big mistakes, these two changes.
They also gave us 3-4 more useless traits that give initiative in a super slow drip now, so I hope we get some trait overhaul love in the future. But I’m not worried about us post patch.
I mean, they did reverse the Trickster / Flanking Strikes change.
You can’t say they changed nothing at all when they actually did.
They also rolled back some of the Vigor duration nerf. The original drop was 50% to both BT and VR.
To be honest, that feels more like we’ve been dealt with by a used car salesman. They said they were going to nerf our skills by 50% so when they only nerfed it by 33% and 37.5% we felt like we got a deal. We still got handily nerfed.
I mean, they did reverse the Trickster / Flanking Strikes change.
You can’t say they changed nothing at all when they actually did.
That would have been a buff having Trickster at lower tier, but of course Thief are not suppose to get buff so they scrapped the idea because they thought that putting Flanking Strikes deeper was an actual nerf.
http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
Bunch of people complained that they’d lose their precious Flanking Strikes, so they switched it back.
Bunch of people complained that they’d lose their precious Flanking Strikes, so they switched it back.
If that was the case, then why didn’t they swapped Long Reach for Trickster instead?
Because it’s not about Flanking Strikes.
http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
bumped. Collaboration was a great success!
To be honest, that feels more like we’ve been dealt with by a used car salesman. They said they were going to nerf our skills by 50% so when they only nerfed it by 33% and 37.5% we felt like we got a deal. We still got handily nerfed.
That’s probably a frame of reference problem. Infinite vigor is a thing that’s bad for the game, and this was an attempt to deal with it. This “used car salesman” business is counter-productive.
If you want to complain, you should direct your laser at Guardians and (especially) Mesmers, who still have easy access to 100% Vigor uptime, and seem to have been completely overlooked with this pass.
To be honest, that feels more like we’ve been dealt with by a used car salesman. They said they were going to nerf our skills by 50% so when they only nerfed it by 33% and 37.5% we felt like we got a deal. We still got handily nerfed.
That’s probably a frame of reference problem. Infinite vigor is a thing that’s bad for the game, and this was an attempt to deal with it. This “used car salesman” business is counter-productive.
If you want to complain, you should direct your laser at Guardians and (especially) Mesmers, who still have easy access to 100% Vigor uptime, and seem to have been completely overlooked with this pass.
I would rather not see other classes nerfed at this point as it makes the game more boring. Eles still also have access to permavigor within their adept tier which synergizes very well with their grandmaster trait as do guards (selfless daring) and mesmers (DE) now that I think about it. I want thief traits to synergize with each other better rather than taking away what other classes have. I actually think it should have been buffed also considering we don’t have the defensive boons the others have and even with 30% boon duration on the old base time, at best VR had about a 69% uptime, asuming you blew withdraw whenever it was off CD. (I know you might have gotten higher with SoM but you would have lost all the benefits of SoM by continually using the active)
Collaboration? I think that doesn’t change anything from what Dev had in mind.Hopefully the after Nerf feed back will make them see the mistake.
nah…
Can’t say I’m surprised.
Same thing happened with the previous balance patch.
The least they could do is tell us why they feel like they didn’t need to change anything.
Frankly it didn’t feel all that collaborative to me.
It was more like “here are the changes we have planed for your class” /discuss.
And then they rolled out the changes only with some very, very minor adjustments.
And then we are still left with traits that kill us on a regular basis like Last Refuge.
Yeah, there was nothing collaborative about this “effort”.
When you guys will understand, Devs don’t care about what ever you suggests them, all about general audience, all about gemshop.
However, you can just stop playing, who cares there’s no subscription. No Expansion, you will never be in esport, le lol
Just one of many reasons I’ll never spend real money in their gem store.
lol i want my money back :P .. before this i was happy for the most part to spend my money on the gem shop because for the most part they did a good job but this crosses the line!.!.! and that talk about fair and balance and it opening up new builds… it is not fair and balanced the mesmer has a stun breaker as a #2 skill and we do not any more!… my main prob with this patch is the infiltrator strike ! plz give us our stun breaker back this is not right ! even if u make the return cost more initiative let us have our stun breaker or the sword is useless ! i can live with the perma stealth and vigor nerf if we got our stun breaker so we don’t die all the time/ half to be a support class … but this was a HUGE NERF and i don’t think it was fair and balanced at all .. and the only new build i have seen it open so far is the support build which is lame !… srry i don’t
troll on the forums normally but this is WRONG !!!
(edited by caveman.5840)
This happened last balance patch. Lots of talk, and then they did what they want. PLEASE stop thinking that they’re actually trying to get feedback.
They don’t want your feedback.
This is a regular tactic used – it acclimates people to the changes, and then when someone complains, they can say, “you weren’t part of the discussion”. So it works both ways.
Don’t bother. While I completely expected exactly this, I can’t help but feel slighted. Again.
anet associate made this post or had something to do with it. no doubt.
anet associate made this post or had something to do with it. no doubt.
My 3+ infractions would beg to differ.
I think it WAS a success. the patch is better than expected. most thieves feel great about this patch. a vocal minority, many of whom claimed that they quit their thieves, are the only ones complaining.
OP’d thief, lol
What???? can’t really read that. At any rate, i see plenty of thieves playing tonight. Doesn’t appear to be any reduction.
OP’d thief, lol
What???? can’t really read that. At any rate, i see plenty of thieves playing tonight. Doesn’t appear to be any reduction.
At least you try a bit harder now, I nearly thought you didn’t see any future for thiefs anymore and didn’t bother with good trolling attempts^^
they should give us back our stun breaker for the sword !
(edited by caveman.5840)
Roll back the sword change. Just put it back like it was. It was fine.
Ehmry
[SM] Storm Machine guild leader
[SM] Storm Machine guild leader
The moderators right here keep deleting posts in regards to sanduskel baits. This person right here is NOT constructive and NOT in the least bit helpful other than being a nasty thorn in the majority of the thief players here.
Do something, please moderate sanduskel.
(edited by LoneWolfie.1852)
LoneWolfie,
Look at it this way, Jon Peters himself came here and told us the proposed changes for thieves for this past 10th of December. After a month of posts, most of which were reasonable, Anet STILL went through with the changes they proposed with the smallest of changes based on those posts.
Do you really think Anet is going to make any changes suggested by one person or listen to his/her feedback, in this case Sanduskel?
Let it go. The thief community considers him a troll already (the only people that like his posts and agree with him are non-thieves). Ignore his posts and move along.
The moderators right here keep deleting posts in regards to sanduskel baits. This person right here is NOT constructive and NOT in the least bit helpful other than being a nasty thorn in the majority of the thief players here.
Do something, please moderate sanduskel.
everyone does +1 to those comments. def an anet plug. works for anet. doesnt play. trolls. rude. disrespectful. unproductive. yet anytime we makea post about anet not caring/listening or sanduskel we get moderated. anet wont do anything bc they want control. the treat thieves like we are first day players. enjoy this comment while you can. we dont have the 1s AMENDMENT in this forum. its controlled like a kitten culture. watch this get deleted. there is NOTHING bad in this comment just stating that you cant say what you want/feel/express without being filtered if its not going in flow with the narrative anet wants other players to believe. they use the "hide the true feelings of the community so it does spread and let other players who are too “whatever” to catch on".
this comment will be deleted yet theres nothing wrong with it.
kitten? no srry thats a historical figure/ideal used in teaching at every school
anet doesnt listen to us? no sorry its true if u look at the comments. im just stating it bc if you look….nobody is happy with these changes…well 90%anyway.
sanduskel saying things that create friction here? no sorry its true and we are complaining to anet/moderators to fix the problem but they are prolly 1 in the same as we keep getting filtered everytime we mention it and even blocked for days/week.
anet treats people like 1st day players? its true. i can point out a dozen things they say/do in the videos they put out thats obtuse and obvious.
so if saying the truth in a generally respectful and delicate manner is wrong. maybe selling your product in the USA is a bad place for you guys.
i will be posting the results of why this is removed. there wont be a reason or atleast a nonsensical one thats copy n pasted which also follows the “we dont care” attitude.
LoneWolfie,
Look at it this way, Jon Peters himself came here and told us the proposed changes for thieves for this past 10th of December. After a month of posts, most of which were reasonable, Anet STILL went through with the changes they proposed with the smallest of changes based on those posts.
Do you really think Anet is going to make any changes suggested by one person or listen to his/her feedback, in this case Sanduskel?
Let it go. The thief community considers him a troll already (the only people that like his posts and agree with him are non-thieves). Ignore his posts and move along.
unfortunately anet seems to really go with the minority. we true thieves believe they erally hate our class and just troll us with nerfs. we TRUELY believe that. and when we see rediculous things like sanduskel…… we kind of get the feeling that EXTREME minority is listened to
theres 2 things you ahve to understand about GW2
1) GW2 is dumbed down IMMENSELY from GW1.
2) They will keep dumbing it down until all players can be competitive on all builds.
3) they dont want winners or losers. they want the 50 50 ratio despite experience and reaction time.