Guild Wars 2

Clumsy.6257:

Excalibur.9748:

Clumsy.6257:

Excalibur.9748:

I find warrior to be much squishier than thief

You’re like the only person who thinks warrior is squishier than thief. I’m starting to suspect you’re sanduskel’s alt.

its all about perspective, thief = invincible in nearly all trash mob situations (dredge being the only exception) plus the massive ar(censor)senal of evades, 30+ seconds of party-wide stealth, I don’t see how you could think thief is squishier than warrior

Blind only works on trash…and they’re called trash for a reason, cuz they really are trash.
Disabling shot has delay due to aftercast, it’s not a very reliable evade. Same thing with flanking strike. IR was just nerfed. I’d rather have the high HP, armor, and healing signet instead of these unreliables evades.
Stealth is useful for skipping trash…..but skipping content is boring and not something I like doing anyways.
I don’t see how you can think warrior is squishier than thief.

1. Why are you using disabling shot?
2. While trash dies fast, warrior takes damage on trash while thief does not
3. IR????
4. Flanking strike/pistol whip are incredibly reliable
5. Hp is irrelevant, damage can be avoided
6. Armor is irrelevant, damage can be avoided
7. If damage can’t be avoided your not doing it right

PW has 0.5s activation time. That’s not what I’d call reliable. Same thing with flanking strike. Made worse by having to wait for aftercast time.
Dodge is a lot more reliable than either of those.
Any damage a thief can avoid, a warrior can. Those weapon skill evades are not very reliable for avoiding all damage. A warrior still has the mitigation advantage here.
IR = infiltrator’s return
Difference is warrior can actually take this damage while thief can’t.
Disabling shot is useful for kiting champions but I don’t use it a lot. I thought you used shortbow vs liadri. Are you saying you didn’t use disabling shot?
I don’t know what kind of easy content you’re doing but you can’t avoid all damage.

Besides, even if it was possible to avoid all damage, that doesn’t seem like something I want to do to maximize DPS. Anytime you dodge that’s damage lost.

Clumsy.6257:

Excalibur.9748:

Dempsey.8760:

Excalibur.9748:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Once the optimal is known, there is only one viable.

Optimal for what?

Let me answer for you – optimal for an organized group for a speed run.

I only PUG so that full zerk thing will never be optimal for me. I go in a PUG with the intent to be able to solo everything even if something goes wrong.

Did you even kill liadri? Berserker was the best gear for killing her. Anet makes it very obvious they berserker is superior to all other stats in PvE.

Yep, berserker was not the best for Liadri. P/D condi was the best and almost noone used berserker for doing the achievement with 8 orbs.

I just did a pug AC story and then AC1/2 in full zerk with 2 lvl 48’s and a 35 had little to no problems. I just explained everything clearly and they listened, being nice and helping people will get you a lot further than your “survivability” (which means nothing in this games PvE).

I Liadri in full zerk and got every achievement, that fight only separated those who could figure out fights and those that leans on the crutch that comes in the form of tankyness.

With a thief?

Just for the record I was talking about thief only, as zerk warrior is still tankier than a PVT thief. So going by your logic, playing a warrior is like relying on a crutch.

You say that likes it hard to not get downed on a full zerker thief. And tankiness is an illusion, having spent close to 1k hours on my warrior(s) and close to 1.5k hours on my thieves I can say that in equivalent gear (zerker+scholars), I find warrior to be much squishier than thief. If you think thief is squishy you should work on your playstyle.

thats more than 35% of your waking life if you started playing when gw2 came out. and thats rounding up to 14 months of release. 35% of your waking life? yyyyyyouch.

Excalibur.9748:

Clumsy.6257:

Excalibur.9748:

Clumsy.6257:

Excalibur.9748:

I find warrior to be much squishier than thief

You’re like the only person who thinks warrior is squishier than thief. I’m starting to suspect you’re sanduskel’s alt.

its all about perspective, thief = invincible in nearly all trash mob situations (dredge being the only exception) plus the massive ar(censor)senal of evades, 30+ seconds of party-wide stealth, I don’t see how you could think thief is squishier than warrior

Blind only works on trash…and they’re called trash for a reason, cuz they really are trash.
Disabling shot has delay due to aftercast, it’s not a very reliable evade. Same thing with flanking strike. IR was just nerfed. I’d rather have the high HP, armor, and healing signet instead of these unreliables evades.
Stealth is useful for skipping trash…..but skipping content is boring and not something I like doing anyways.
I don’t see how you can think warrior is squishier than thief.

1. Why are you using disabling shot?
2. While trash dies fast, warrior takes damage on trash while thief does not
3. IR????
4. Flanking strike/pistol whip are incredibly reliable
5. Hp is irrelevant, damage can be avoided
6. Armor is irrelevant, damage can be avoided
7. If damage can’t be avoided your not doing it right

PW has 0.5s activation time. That’s not what I’d call reliable. Same thing with flanking strike. Made worse by having to wait for aftercast time.
Dodge is a lot more reliable than either of those.
Any damage a thief can avoid, a warrior can. Those weapon skill evades are not very reliable for avoiding all damage. A warrior still has the mitigation advantage here.
IR = infiltrator’s return
Difference is warrior can actually take this damage while thief can’t.
Disabling shot is useful for kiting champions but I don’t use it a lot. I thought you used shortbow vs liadri. Are you saying you didn’t use disabling shot?
I don’t know what kind of easy content you’re doing but you can’t avoid all damage.

Besides, even if it was possible to avoid all damage, that doesn’t seem like something I want to do to maximize DPS. Anytime you dodge that’s damage lost.

i really have to agree here. some people are starting to like PW….but i say they just like it BETTER than before. not like it in general. .5 sec activation time is way to long. should be near .25 which gives people a chance to dodge…not twice enough time.

Thief —> Elem --—→ mesmer —→ Guardian —> Engineer --→ Warrior —→ Necro --→Ranger

a) Unless you sleep 9+ hours a day your maths is wrong
b) Doing maths on how much more experience your opponent has does not exactly support your position

Excalibur.9748:

PW has 0.5s activation time. That’s not what I’d call reliable. Same thing with flanking strike. Made worse by having to wait for aftercast time.
Dodge is a lot more reliable than either of those.
Any damage a thief can avoid, a warrior can. Those weapon skill evades are not very reliable for avoiding all damage. A warrior still has the mitigation advantage here.
IR = infiltrator’s return
Difference is warrior can actually take this damage while thief can’t.
Disabling shot is useful for kiting champions but I don’t use it a lot. I thought you used shortbow vs liadri. Are you saying you didn’t use disabling shot?
I don’t know what kind of easy content you’re doing but you can’t avoid all damage.

Besides, even if it was possible to avoid all damage, that doesn’t seem like something I want to do to maximize DPS. Anytime you dodge that’s damage lost.

once you learn the boss attacks its very easy to use pistol whip/flanking strike to dodge, i put question marks next to IR because the only reason to use this skill is to pull or condi clear so cooldown/cast is irrelevant, yes i used shortbow on liadri but no i didnt use disabling shot, cluster bomb spam behind me and just walk around, easy content? well yeah most people like to call this easy content a dungeon tour

Going to have to agree that Thief is actually one of the easiest classes to stay alive with in PvE, even against bosses. Once you know their attacks you can basically not even get touched through timing PWs and other damage avoiding attacks. Heck, bosses like the Archdiviner at 49, I just run D/D and S/P and stay right on top of him. They have no AI variation – you can just get in to a pattern and job done.

Auesis.7301:

Going to have to agree that Thief is actually one of the easiest classes to stay alive with in PvE, even against bosses. Once you know their attacks you can basically not even get touched through timing PWs and other damage avoiding attacks. Heck, bosses like the Archdiviner at 49, I just run D/D and S/P and stay right on top of him. They have no AI variation – you can just get in to a pattern and job done.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

guardian/warrior/mesmer/ranger are all better!

Travlane.5948:

Auesis.7301:

Going to have to agree that Thief is actually one of the easiest classes to stay alive with in PvE, even against bosses. Once you know their attacks you can basically not even get touched through timing PWs and other damage avoiding attacks. Heck, bosses like the Archdiviner at 49, I just run D/D and S/P and stay right on top of him. They have no AI variation – you can just get in to a pattern and job done.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

guardian/warrior/mesmer/ranger are all better!

They aren’t. You’re just not very good at it then. Sorry.

Defenses mean nothing when you can dodge or avoid all damage, and Thief excels at doing so, far beyond anything else. This is amplified multiple times over by the fact that mobs are stupid and can’t change up their attack patterns with such a limited array of skills and simple AI that just triggers them as soon as cooldowns expire.

Auesis.7301:

Travlane.5948:

Auesis.7301:

Going to have to agree that Thief is actually one of the easiest classes to stay alive with in PvE, even against bosses. Once you know their attacks you can basically not even get touched through timing PWs and other damage avoiding attacks. Heck, bosses like the Archdiviner at 49, I just run D/D and S/P and stay right on top of him. They have no AI variation – you can just get in to a pattern and job done.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

guardian/warrior/mesmer/ranger are all better!

They aren’t. You’re just not very good at it then. Sorry.

Defenses mean nothing when you can dodge or avoid all damage, and Thief excels at doing so, far beyond anything else. This is amplified multiple times over by the fact that mobs are stupid and can’t change up their attack patterns with such a limited array of skills and simple AI that just triggers them as soon as cooldowns expire.

dodge? really? ahh lets assume u play thief . we all know bosses = 1 hitter quitters for us….we dead after 1 hit.

that said lets look at our evades.

death blossom: 1/4s evade on a 1.25 sec skill. 80% vulnerable time.
FS/LS combo: 1/2s evade for a total of 2.5s between evades. 80% vulnerable time.
Pistol Whip: 1/2 second evade on a 1-1.25s (debatable) skill . 50-66% vulnerable time
Withdraw: 3/4s evade on a 1s skill. 25% vulnerable time.
Roll for Init: 3/4s evade on a 1s skill. 25% vulnerable time.
Disabling Shot: almost full evade. <5-10% vulnerable time.
Dodge evades: about 10-15 vulnerable time before actual dodge occurs (debatable)

so your best bet is RFI/Withdraw/Disabling shot if you are going to claim what you are claiming. out of those 3 only disabling shot its worth mentioning bc the others are a minute cooldown and not reliable while the other needs to be used as a heal more often than an evade so the evade is a bonus not actual damage mitigation response tool.

the other skills are helpful but not going to keep you alive at a boss. even when a thief goes to the final boss with p/d carrion full defense build he is still a 2 shot kill where guardians take hits for days. warriors. mesmers clones keep the focus off them etc etc. (talking about firestorm/berserker and bosses like)

evade spam = short term (2-5 seconds) of survivability. if its a boss where only 1 is there andregular slow attackintervals yeah its not bad. but when its a hard boss or like a dungeon boss ormultiple bosses or for that case multiple enemies…. it doenst help being able to evade.

evades do not equal warrior/guardian/ele/mesmer survivability. id trade evades on 3/4’s of all thoes skills for aegis protection invulnerability and blocks. yes plz.

So you’re bad at timing things and/or have a crappy connection and that’s a problem with the class? Or you’re playing with terribads decked out in full PVT if they’re actually taking “hits for days”…

Edit: if you’re spamming evades you’re doing it wrong. Sorry.

PvE is easy. Not only that, it’s forgiving, so if you screw up recovery is not tough at all.

Evade vs stability/aegis is kind of pointless. They both require some manner of skill to play, but even with the thief built in evades in their attacks, you can pretty easily tell when you need to do them to dodge an attack while hitting.

Travlane.5948:

ahh lets assume u play thief .

Yes, let’s.

I should also point out that at no point in your “calculations” did you account for mob attack frequency and telegraphy, which is exactly why your “vulnerable time” matters for absolutely naught. Pistol Whip and dodges alone will keep you alive against encounters that can’t be negated via just Black Powder spam, easily. It’s even simpler against bosses like Ginva who has huge telegraphed attacks that can easily be prepped with infinite Flanking Strikes. See videos above.

Like Erebus said, if you’re “spamming” dodges and evasive skills you’re doing it wrong. So, so wrong.

Auesis.7301:

I should also point out that at no point in your “calculations” did you account for mob attack frequency and telegraphy, which is exactly why your “vulnerable time” matters for absolutely naught. Pistol Whip and dodges alone will keep you alive against encounters that can’t be negated via just Black Powder spam, easily. It’s even simpler against bosses like Ginva who has huge telegraphed attacks that can easily be prepped with infinite Flanking Strikes. See videos above.

Like Erebus said, if you’re “spamming” dodges and evasive skills you’re doing it wrong. So, so wrong.

yyyes. i did. i said most mobs attack at regular slow intervals. the newer bosses attack faster and hit harder. old bosses still hit hard but not as fast.

Auesis.7301:

Travlane.5948:

ahh lets assume u play thief .

Yes, let’s.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_-lcZ4bWAU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2y3izc58BUI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zgFsfblETU

heh.

video 1. COE….. obv easy. slow attacks . plus using blinds
video 2. TA…. blinds. not dodges.
video 3. HoTW blinds. daggerstorm+SoM…..

everything you do in this video the classes i mentioned above could do with one hand on the mouse alone just walking in and clicking a few skills iwthout dying. these videos hadnothing to do with evade. survivability? yes. evades ? no.

pls show a video of you soloing bosses in fractals? firestorm/berseker/mossman/ice boss/dredge boss. cmon show something real…. that nonsense above any nub can do :P literally.

as i said….evades are good for slow EVEN INTERVAL attacking enemies. the only reliable one is disabling shot. if you are at MAI using evades but not using disabling shot…. u WILL die….. and i dont mean standing between the circles being clever i mean dodging. try dodge mais shadow step. need like .15 reaction to avoid.

evades are nice but you have to see the future to make them truly count as survivability. evades are best for big attacks. not this uber survival skill you mentioned. im not attacking you with my comments but this whole “thieves are beast bc of evades” idea. during evades we do 0dmg. with every other classes’ survivability they deal dmg while using their defensive capabilities (high hp/high armor/blocks/protection/aegis/reflect/clones/spirits/minions/necro HPbar/ etc etc x100 lol.

Then you missed all the important things.

Malrona? Dodges.

Fyonna? LOTS of dodges.

Aldus the Stormbringer? LOTS and LOTS of dodges.

Ginva the Butcher? LOTS and LOTS and LOTS of dodges.

You also probably mistook Smoke Screen for being used as a blind. Actually, in boss scenarios, it’s just an anti-projectile to allow some initiative to recharge to continue PW spam as well as just to relax. You should also know that blinds do not work on bosses anyway, so your complaints about it being blinds only are totally wrong.

All of this was 10x easier on my Thief than it is with my Warrior, or my Guardian or Mesmer, to do alone.

Plus, I’m not doing 0 damage when evading. Pistol Whips do damage in evade frames, and Flanking Strike does spike damage after it ends.

I seriously don’t think you PvE to any noticeable degree. Pretty much every high-end PvE-goer would agree with me here. Thief is absolutely amazing in the hands of any competent player from the insane amount of blinds, evasive capabilities and the DPS that goes with it all.

I found it amusing how you even suggested that a PvE Thief would ever use Carrion.

I’d be happy to show you solo stuff from Fractals if most of the methods to reach the bosses didn’t require team elements eg. the buttons/console in the Dredge Fractal (and you can only access it after 2 other Fractals). Nobody I know would have the patience to do that for no reward. You can, however, find videos from randomfightfan from a while ago when the Molten Facility was a normal dungeon. No agony involved, but agony doesn’t matter because any competent Fractal-goer has 55AR anyway.

As for Mai Trin, no, I would not die. Pistol Whip and heavy Trickery works fine against her. FYI her Shadow Shot is set in stone for the target and cannot be dodged, only blocked or stopped by anti-proj or invulnerability, both of which you can access during the fight. PW, Smoke Screen and the stolen Drink skill is more than enough to wipe the floor with her. PW for the normal attacks, SS and Drink to either facetank or stop the Shadow Shot (which doesn’t one-shot you anyway, and SoM with the PWs will keep you afloat).

At this point, I think you are just being ridiculously pedantic to constantly twist the story to “THIEF UP WE DIE SO EASY” when I have shown you that the opposite can be true in the hands of any competent player, regardless of the method (but most of them involving some sort of evasive skill whether it’s a regular dodge, PW, FS or otherwise)

Other classes can do that stuff one-handed? Can they? Really. Go watch a Guardian’s version of HotW. Last one I saw required a metric ton of kiting around multiple corners constantly, for any encounter. No other class can blind as efficiently as we can and then have evasive DPS skills on top of that.

Lol, I wish my Warrior, Guardian, Mesmer and Ranger had access to infinite blinds and could spam a version of Blurred Frenzy over and over.