Guild Wars 2

Does anyone else think the thief downed state is kind of underpowered? I do so incredibly little damage with my main attack it’s laughable.

The teleport is cool but the range is short and the viewing angle when you’re downed makes it extremely hard to find a spot to TP to.

The invisibility is by far the weakest utility. It lasts maybe 2 seconds tops, you still take damage from AE and people swinging randomly, you deactivate it by using any of your other skills, (including healing) and by the time it becomes available you’re already at low HP and if you stealth for the duration you will probably just die anyway from the DoT. Oh, and in PVE the duration isn’t long enough for the mob you’re fighting to walk away so as soon as it fades the mob comes back to finish you off.

I love the thief class, but compared to the other classes I’ve tried, our downed state is pathetic.

Yes, it sucks!! even with the trait that allows you to add 50% extra damage, it still sucks!

The teleport is so incredibly useful for staying alive in dungeons and pvp that it’s ridiculous. I only really find thief downed state to suck when you’re completely alone, because otherwise you are crazy slippery and have the ability to get into a good position to res yourself or get ressed by others while attention goes elsewhere. So no, I feel the opposite. Dealing with the downed states of my other lowbie characters sucks after playing thief so much.

Excuse me? Thief is the class with the best downed state of them all.

You can become invisible = opponents can’t finish you
You teleport away = opponent can’t finish you

And if you would wait for the stealth to come up while you still haven’t used teleport, you would be perfectly able to escape in PvE.

I rally constantly in PvP with my thief while with other classes I can maybe knock over one person and then get killed by his friend anyway.

And it’s the best in dungeons where you can move away from AoE attacks.

In survivability, I believe it’s overpowered. You can instantly teleport when you go down, which can get you away from a boss making it easier to get resurrected. Invisibility attack can lose aggro of enemies if they’re far away enough. Damage wise it’s pretty high (I don’t expect to kill anything while I’m down anyway, so I don’t really care), and I don’t even have that strong trait.
You can also survive/postpone death for quite a long time in SPvP (although not always recommended). If you die a lot, try getting the 5 trait shadow arts which makes you go invisible right before dying, and use your heal right after.

I think every different downed-state is unique in it being a survivable situation for different reasons. I don’t think the Thief is meant to deal any sort of /real/ damage while downed. They are meant to be annoying and hard to finish off, which they certainly do with being able to teleport and stealth multiple times in a short duration.

I actually feel bad for the Engineer and Elementalist downed states, as they have no immediate survivability associated with them, and pretty much get insta-stopped with no resistance.

Dropkick.2751:

You can become invisible = opponents can’t finish you
You teleport away = opponent can’t finish you

This just isn’t true. Vanishing in stealth does not mean you can’t be finished. I’ve killed people who were stealthed and I’ve been killed while stealthed.

Teleporting away usually gives you a 3 second relief while they look behind them and run to finish you. It’s maybe enough to buy you some time if reinforcements are coming, but that’s it.

And if you would wait for the stealth to come up while you still haven’t used teleport, you would be perfectly able to escape in PvE.

This is great advice actually, I usually teleport as soon as it’s available. Thanks!

And it’s the best in dungeons where you can move away from AoE attacks.

Yes teleport does come in handy in dungeons with traps, but again, very hard to aim with the viewing angle (it probably doesn’t help that I’m asura).

Dropkick.2751:

And if you would wait for the stealth to come up while you still haven’t used teleport, you would be perfectly able to escape in PvE.

I’ve tried this before, but the problem is that when you stealth, the camera immediately re positions itself and the stealth is so short that I can’t aim the teleport during that time.

Well considering the mesmer has our 2 and 3 skill combines into with the added benefit of a clone, i’d say yes, thief down state went from OP to complete crap. Still not as bad as ele’s tho.

I believe its ok. Its the class that can keep a foe from completely killing you the longest, which could come in very handy in various situations. It balances out well because they have a lot less damage in the downed state, unlike for example an Ele which has a lot more damage but can’t escape the initial stomp.

SwickHobo.5096:

Well considering the mesmer has our 2 and 3 skill combines into with the added benefit of a clone, i’d say yes, thief down state went from OP to complete crap. Still not as bad as ele’s tho.

You have to look at the overall picture though. A mesmer or a thief can’t 1v1 an ele in the downed state. Sure, that isn’t super handy. But in a big fight an Ele can actually help out with its damage from the downed state and if it gets to use its mist form it can get back up pretty quickly, I think the numbers might be tweaked a bit but its pretty good IMO.

Pyrocat.3984:

Dropkick.2751:

You can become invisible = opponents can’t finish you
You teleport away = opponent can’t finish you

This just isn’t true. Vanishing in stealth does not mean you can’t be finished. I’ve killed people who were stealthed and I’ve been killed while stealthed.

Teleporting away usually gives you a 3 second relief while they look behind them and run to finish you. It’s maybe enough to buy you some time if reinforcements are coming, but that’s it.

And if you would wait for the stealth to come up while you still haven’t used teleport, you would be perfectly able to escape in PvE.

This is great advice actually, I usually teleport as soon as it’s available. Thanks!

And it’s the best in dungeons where you can move away from AoE attacks.

Yes teleport does come in handy in dungeons with traps, but again, very hard to aim with the viewing angle (it probably doesn’t help that I’m asura).

Both the teleport and the stealth require a little bit of skill and knowledge on how to use.

Teleport will get you away from a stomp if you get far enough away (which you can do). The Stealth will save you from a stomp if you use it about 1 second BEFORE they stomp you. If you stealth 2 seconds before hand, you’ll re-emerge within a fraction of a second before they finish the stomp, meaning you kitten up – and will now be stomped.

I find it more difficult to get back on my feet when PVE Solo-ing than the other professions I play. But I agree that the smoke and tele is very useful in other situations.

“Z”

Kuppa.7892:

SwickHobo.5096:

Well considering the mesmer has our 2 and 3 skill combines into with the added benefit of a clone, i’d say yes, thief down state went from OP to complete crap. Still not as bad as ele’s tho.

You have to look at the overall picture though. A mesmer or a thief can’t 1v1 an ele in the downed state. Sure, that isn’t super handy. But in a big fight an Ele can actually help out with its damage from the downed state and if it gets to use its mist form it can get back up pretty quickly, I think the numbers might be tweaked a bit but its pretty good IMO.

I have no idea what your trying to say for your 1v1 and ele from the downed state. Ele downed state damage is prolly the lowest out of any of them, and only applies a vulnerability. A thief spreading cripple in an AoE form is much more useful to a team fight. Also most Ele’s will get auto stomped unless a teammate can help them out as they have no anti-stomp on their 2 skill spot. Mesmer’s #3 skill can also hit up to 6k if it hits from behind.

I completely agree. The 1 skill isn’t nearly enough damage to rally against anything that has more than 1% health when you go down. The teleport is the worst though, simply because of how close the camera gets when you go down. You really have to fight bad camera design to get a useful teleport off.

Well, I really can’t believe you’re whining about the best downed state in the game!

Underpowered thief downed state?! Try playing an elementalist! Our downed state is almost completly worthless. It immobilizes, so in majority of situations there is nothing you can do to interrupt a finishing move.

This topic is ridiculous. The fact that you’re downed is supposed to mean you’re badly hurt and there are only a few things you can do in such a situation. To complain about one of the more, what most would consider, overpowered down states is just laughable.

I don’t mean to attack you, but you really need to understand the point of been in a downed state to begin with. It’s definitely not to dps.

Dropkick.2751:

Excuse me? Thief is the class with the best downed state of them all.

You can become invisible = opponents can’t finish you
You teleport away = opponent can’t finish you

And if you would wait for the stealth to come up while you still haven’t used teleport, you would be perfectly able to escape in PvE.

I rally constantly in PvP with my thief while with other classes I can maybe knock over one person and then get killed by his friend anyway.

And it’s the best in dungeons where you can move away from AoE attacks.

You become invisible… for 2 seconds. During which, you can still be attacked (and usually are) And after which, you die because it doesn’t make the enemies stop fighting you.
You teleport away… 4 feet. And then the enemy just walks over to you and kills you. This happens 99% of the time, and these skills NEVER keep you safe if you are alone. All you can do is pray that someone else will distract them long enough for you to heal yourself.
Face it, our downed state sucks. I usually dont even bother fighting unless the monster is almost dead when i go down.

Uhh I usually go with party, and thief’s downed state is really useful to tele myself closer to my party (we have one member that has revive rune set). So I would say that it is really useful.

If you are fighting alone and overwhelmed, there is nothing much (that you are supposed) to do. :o If you are downed and able to take many enemies down (which have plenty of health left), then it is overpowered.

I am with the majority, our downed state is really pathetic. The only real use is the ability to get out of aoe from siege or bosses, but other then that… pretty much useless. a 5 step teleport and 2 secs of stealth isn’t useful unless, imo.

I said this in another thread, but in my opinion downed bars should be built by the player based on a pool of abilities, with all players getting access to the same abilities. Right now they are not balanced, and I think they need to be.

Venomo.5936:

Well, I really can’t believe you’re whining about the best downed state in the game!

You must not have played a mesmer…. their 2 skill is the thief 2 and 3 skill in one PLUS a clone. Their 3 skill is a phantasm that does backstab-crits.

Then theres the ranger which can revive their pet and have it heal them. Provides a much better chance at a rally than the stuff thieves have.

Then theres the warrior who can actually get up and keep fighting like they never went down. Sure they die at the end, but this can be the difference between taking down an enemy or having the whole fight be for naught.

And the guardian that can push foes away and cast a healing symbol… Unless you’re fighting something with stability, an AoE push is generally better than a teleport as it actually interrupts mobs.

Really the problem with the thief downstate is twofold:
1: We have a ground-targeted downed-state skill, which we would ideally want to cast as far away from our current position as possible, but the camera is so close and badly angled during downed-state that this becomes a huge chore.
2: The 2 skill is useless until the 3 skill is available, which means we have to just sit there and take a beating for a few seconds without any real defense.

I think skill 3 is the biggest problem, other classes happen to be quite powerful, thiefs is incredibly lack luster. In PvE its close to useless for instance, since mobs will re aggro once you are removed from stealth.

Vargs.6234:

The teleport is so incredibly useful for staying alive in dungeons and pvp that it’s ridiculous. I only really find thief downed state to suck when you’re completely alone, because otherwise you are crazy slippery and have the ability to get into a good position to res yourself or get ressed by others while attention goes elsewhere. So no, I feel the opposite. Dealing with the downed states of my other lowbie characters sucks after playing thief so much.

Totally agree with you!

I agree with you in terms of wvw and general pvp.
You are not going to fool anyone with that 2sec invisibility or that 400-600 range teleport, while these do work good in pve, they are completely lackluster to some of the abilities the other proffessions.

As a thief in downed state i consider myself dead. The downed state doesn’t add anything other than a another stepstone to death.

I was completely baffled when i was trying to ‘finish off’ a warrior (or guardian?) who, just before the proces was complete, interupted my move, knocked me back and got back up.

The invisibility is tragically weak. As for the rest, I’m good with them, I don’t think you are supposed to deal a lot of damage in the downed state and the teleport is fine, pretty helpful in PVP but kind of useless in PVE if you are alone, but,kittenuseful in you are in a group.

If the camera didn’t reset when downed, and the stealth lasted a bit longer (give us five seconds, and have it still break on doing other stuff) I’d be okay with it.

The teleport is very helpful, but a pain to use, and the stealth, for being the “3” should have a bit more oomph to it.

You realize OP that thieves might have the best downed state? Try another classes (Engy, Ranger) and see how you feel afterward.

Troll thread is trolly.

The only thing I really hate about thief’s downed state is skill #1 hits many targets. You are dying! The last thing you want is to call attention from mobs and it’s exactly what skill #1 does. Many times I got downed and when trying to kill a single foe to rally, the thief accidentally hits neutral foes that comes to kill me. It’s painful!

Tossing this out but if you think thief is bad, never play ele. THATS a bad downed state.