Thief Elite spec: The Agent (Rifle & Gadgets)

Thief Elite spec: The Agent (Rifle & Gadgets)

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Posted by: King Kai.4516

King Kai.4516

The Agent

Controlling the organizations from the shadows and taking out their targets from afar, the Agent isn’t well known amongst the populace of Tyria and that is by design. The agent uses long range planning and weaponry to punish their enemies while providing vital intel and support to their allies on the battle field. The agent is a backline damage dealer/support character. If you feel a trait or skill is to strong then suggest a reasonable recharge time or initiative cost. Please rate and improve!

Class Mechanic: Retreat replaces steal
Retreat-(range 1,000) choose a target and teleport behind your current position by 1000

Weapon (Rifle) (all rifle abilities have 1 second activation time) range 1200

Legshot- single shoot, 1 second cripple, Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile 20%

(stealth attack) Deadshot- hold down for 3 second activation time, 1 second stun, always crits, finishes downed players, drains all initiative) Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile 20%

Bodyshot- 2 second immobilize, 3 second confusion, Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile 20%

Heartshot- 1 second weakness, 6 second bleed, steal a boon, Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile 20%

Multishot- shoot in a circle around you, whirl finisher

Reload- costs 4 initiative, and then can be stationary channeled for up to four seconds: restoring 2 initiation per second, 2 seconds of vigor per seconds, and granting 5 seconds of stealth

Utility – Gadgets

Impact pack-Heal for 3000, next attack also heals for that amount of damage

Smoke grenade- range 900, throw out a grenade that causes Blind (3s), Number of Targets: 5, Pulses: 3, Duration: 4s, Interval: 2s, Radius: 240, Combo Field: Smoke

Shadow matrix- damages, knocks back, and steal a boon from nearby foes

Surprise rockets- next 5 evades send out rockets that hit nearby enemies

Assassin goggles- Break out of stun, gaining vigor and immunity to blindness for 10 seconds

Reinitiate drive(Elite skill)-activate a device that grants max initiative for 5 seconds

Traits (Minor)

• Long-range training- become a sniper that can use a rifle, gadgets, retreat

• Strategic groundwork- Gain pulsing might while under stealth. Each stack of might lasts 15 seconds and the stacks are applied every 3 seconds, this amount of might will peak at 5 stacks.

• Dead eye- gain opening strike whenever you gain stealth, damage increased 1% for every 100 you are away from target (up to 12%)

Traits (Adept)

• Advanced weaponry-Player shots pierces with a rifle or harpoon gun(those skills have reduced recharge) and rifle attacks heal allies on hit(example: if an attack would deal 10,000 damage it also heals any allies in the shots trajectory by 10,000).

• Tactical retreat-When the player retreats, apply your boons at half their current duration to nearby allies at current and target destination

• Shadow unbind-Trigger "shadow matrix” when a foe attempts to control you by stun, daze, knockback, pull, knockdown, sink, float, fear, taunt, or launch

Traits (Master)

• Tinkerer-Build charge each time player critical hits, At maximum charge level (3), your next gadget skill gives 1 initiative on use and recharges faster.

• Brother’s keeper-Outgoing boon and condition duration increased 1% per current initiative point total.

• Intel advantage-Opening strike attacks heal and grant vigor to allies around player

Traits (Grandmaster)

• Initial Craftiness- when the player initiative is full, stealth gained lasts 1 second longer

• Master Planer- Add one more to any ability or trait that has an effect on next attacks or steals a boon (example, venoms now impact next 4 attacks not just 3)

• Undercover benefactor-when player is in stealth surrounding allies gain whatever stealth trait benefits(not the stealth itself!) currently given to player(examples include: Strategic groundwork, Resilience of Shadows, Hidden Killer, others)

(edited by King Kai.4516)

Thief Elite spec: The Agent (Rifle & Gadgets)

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Posted by: Ohoni.6057

Ohoni.6057

Retreat-(range 1,000) choose a target and teleport behind your current position by 1000

I like the idea of this, but I suspect it may be really hard to design. I mean, there are shadowsteps, but they take you to someplace you’ve already been, or to a valid opponent target, or to a ground targeted location, so if it were a Shadowstep then the issue would be accurately targeting a spot behind you. If it just literally means “wherever 1000 units behind you is,” then that could be off a cliff, up a vertical surface, inside a map, whatever. It would have to be able to detect walls and edges and stop you short, which might be easy, or could be very hard. If they can make it work though, it’s a sound option for at least some Thief spec.

The rifle skills sound interesting, but might depend on how much damage each of the attacks do. Outside of the Deadshot, which attacks are meant to be consistent damage dealers?

Also, Reload could be tricky to balance, but it inspired an idea. What about instead of restoring 8 Ini flat, make it an ability that costs 4, and then can be stationary channeled for up to four seconds, restoring 2 ini per second (8 total on full channel)? Leave the Vigor in. That gives it more play, in that if you just spam in in a panic, it ends up costing more than it restores (although it does restore vigor, so might be worth it when bugging out), but on a full channel you end up with a net gain of 4, so very useful when you can spare the time to use it. It should probably also apply 1s of Revealed for each tick, so that you can’t do it while stealthed. It leaves you very open in exchange for a strong potential benefit. And of course the counterplay is that if you get interrupted then you get little to negative gain from it.

As for the utilities, I’m not sure you conveyed your vision for Shadow Matrix. Is it meant to just be a PBAoE burst skill? I feel like you had more in mind than you described.

The elite skill might be a bit much, since you could just go to town with the biggest attacks, but also might be a bit weak, since it only lasts five seconds and that’s only enough time to get off a few attacks anyway. It would depend on the cooldown, perhaps. Maybe instead, it could be a long CD ability that would instantly refill your ini, and then double the regen for ten seconds or so? That would give it more functionality as a “going for broke” moment, but you could still run out if you were just spamming away like mad. Not sure on that though.

One big red flag I’m seeing though, a lot of abilities, including the major damage dealer and numerous traits, seem to rely on being in Stealth, and yet I’m not seeing anything that actually generates Stealth. How do you see the Agent entering Stealth often enough to do his job?

“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”

Thief Elite spec: The Agent (Rifle & Gadgets)

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Posted by: King Kai.4516

King Kai.4516

Retreat-(range 1,000) choose a target and teleport behind your current position by 1000

I like the idea of this, but I suspect it may be really hard to design. I mean, there are shadowsteps, but they take you to someplace you’ve already been, or to a valid opponent target, or to a ground targeted location, so if it were a Shadowstep then the issue would be accurately targeting a spot behind you. If it just literally means “wherever 1000 units behind you is,” then that could be off a cliff, up a vertical surface, inside a map, whatever. It would have to be able to detect walls and edges and stop you short, which might be easy, or could be very hard. If they can make it work though, it’s a sound option for at least some Thief spec.

Good question. My answer is whatever actually works. It could simply go back as much as it validly could go or fail to activate if there is no valid destination.

The rifle skills sound interesting, but might depend on how much damage each of the attacks do. Outside of the Deadshot, which attacks are meant to be consistent damage dealers?

Not a high damage elite spec. You are supposed to be supporting your allies and picking off low health and downed enemies.

Also, Reload could be tricky to balance, but it inspired an idea. What about instead of restoring 8 Ini flat, make it an ability that costs 4, and then can be stationary channeled for up to four seconds, restoring 2 ini per second (8 total on full channel)? Leave the Vigor in. That gives it more play, in that if you just spam in in a panic, it ends up costing more than it restores (although it does restore vigor, so might be worth it when bugging out), but on a full channel you end up with a net gain of 4, so very useful when you can spare the time to use it. It should probably also apply 1s of Revealed for each tick, so that you can’t do it while stealthed. It leaves you very open in exchange for a strong potential benefit. And of course the counterplay is that if you get interrupted then you get little to negative gain from it.

I agree I will change it to match your idea.

As for the utilities, I’m not sure you conveyed your vision for Shadow Matrix. Is it meant to just be a PBAoE burst skill? I feel like you had more in mind than you described.

Yes you have it. It is supposed to be used as an escape skill when surrounded.

The elite skill might be a bit much, since you could just go to town with the biggest attacks, but also might be a bit weak, since it only lasts five seconds and that’s only enough time to get off a few attacks anyway. It would depend on the cooldown, perhaps. Maybe instead, it could be a long CD ability that would instantly refill your ini, and then double the regen for ten seconds or so? That would give it more functionality as a “going for broke” moment, but you could still run out if you were just spamming away like mad. Not sure on that though.

I was thinking of using it with deadshot to take out a bunch of downed enimies at range.

One big red flag I’m seeing though, a lot of abilities, including the major damage dealer and numerous traits, seem to rely on being in Stealth, and yet I’m not seeing anything that actually generates Stealth. How do you see the Agent entering Stealth often enough to do his job?

I have seen many thief builds that generate a ton of stealth on their own so I didn’t want to have overkill with the stealth when combining them with the Agent.

Thief Elite spec: The Agent (Rifle & Gadgets)

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Posted by: Ohoni.6057

Ohoni.6057

Not a high damage elite spec. You are supposed to be supporting your allies and picking off low health and downed enemies.

Every spec needs to be high damage to some degree. Not necessarily peak meta DPS, but you need a reliable rotation that can actually kill healthy enemies, otherwise it’s completely pointless. You seem to be focused on the PvP applications, but how would this class play during PvE roaming? During PvE boss fights where enemies are mostly immune to CC and debuffs are not all that important?

I have seen many thief builds that generate a ton of stealth on their own so I didn’t want to have overkill with the stealth when combining them with the Agent.

But again, where would you get ANY stealth in this build? I don’t tend to go heavy into stealth, so I can’t claim to know all the tricks, but so near as I can tell, there is no way that a Thief using a Rifle and only Agent utilities could enter Stealth at all. The only way an Agent could enter stealth is by swapping to his second weapon and using its ability to go into stealth (many of which require melee range), using the Hide in Shadows heal, Blinding Powder or Shadow Refuge, I suppose the most casual option would be Hidden Thief, proccing Stealth every time you Steal/Backflip, but that’s on a fairly long CD.

I think it’s fine to have a Thief build with minimal Stealth options, like many core Daredevils, but given how many skills and traits in the set are based on being in Stealth, it pretty much requires convenient access to it. I think that either there needs to be a relatively short CD stealth utility of some kind, or some stealth built into the weapon set, OR there needs to be less abilities based on Stealth in the spec, like taking Deadshot and making it a non-stealth ability, with the Stealth version just having a CC buff to it or something.

How about this for an idea, remove #4 Multishot, and replace it with an ability that has a cost of around 5, grants you 2s of Stealth, but also Crippled, so that you can use it to set up attacks, but it’s not too much of an “escape button.” The only trick I can see there is the potential to activate it while under pressure, then use Retreat to move away from where you’d been. It would also need a target, so you couldn’t just spam it in a corner to stack hours of Stealth.

“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”

Thief Elite spec: The Agent (Rifle & Gadgets)

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Posted by: King Kai.4516

King Kai.4516

Not a high damage elite spec. You are supposed to be supporting your allies and picking off low health and downed enemies.

Every spec needs to be high damage to some degree. Not necessarily peak meta DPS, but you need a reliable rotation that can actually kill healthy enemies, otherwise it’s completely pointless. You seem to be focused on the PvP applications, but how would this class play during PvE roaming? During PvE boss fights where enemies are mostly immune to CC and debuffs are not all that important?

I changed some the skills to give a bit more group healing. This spec would be mainly helpfull in WvW and PvP but I do think that for any future PvE boss that has alot of boons this spec would be great.

But again, where would you get ANY stealth in this build? I don’t tend to go heavy into stealth, so I can’t claim to know all the tricks, but so near as I can tell, there is no way that a Thief using a Rifle and only Agent utilities could enter Stealth at all. The only way an Agent could enter stealth is by swapping to his second weapon and using its ability to go into stealth (many of which require melee range), using the Hide in Shadows heal, Blinding Powder or Shadow Refuge, I suppose the most casual option would be Hidden Thief, proccing Stealth every time you Steal/Backflip, but that’s on a fairly long CD.

I think it’s fine to have a Thief build with minimal Stealth options, like many core Daredevils, but given how many skills and traits in the set are based on being in Stealth, it pretty much requires convenient access to it. I think that either there needs to be a relatively short CD stealth utility of some kind, or some stealth built into the weapon set, OR there needs to be less abilities based on Stealth in the spec, like taking Deadshot and making it a non-stealth ability, with the Stealth version just having a CC buff to it or something.

How about this for an idea, remove #4 Multishot, and replace it with an ability that has a cost of around 5, grants you 2s of Stealth, but also Crippled, so that you can use it to set up attacks, but it’s not too much of an “escape button.” The only trick I can see there is the potential to activate it while under pressure, then use Retreat to move away from where you’d been. It would also need a target, so you couldn’t just spam it in a corner to stack hours of Stealth.

I added it to reload per your suggestion.

Updates:
• Advanced weaponry-Player shots pierces with a rifle or harpoon gun(those skills have reduced recharge) and rifle attacks heal allies on hit(example: if an attack would deal 10,000 damage it also heals any allies in the shots trajectory by 10,000).
• Tactical retreat-When the player retreats, apply your boons at half their current duration to nearby allies at current and target destination
• Reload- costs 4, and then can be stationary channeled for up to four seconds: restoring 2 initiation per second, 2 seconds of vigor per seconds, and granting 5 seconds of stealth

Thief Elite spec: The Agent (Rifle & Gadgets)

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Posted by: Ohoni.6057

Ohoni.6057

I changed some the skills to give a bit more group healing. This spec would be mainly helpfull in WvW and PvP but I do think that for any future PvE boss that has alot of boons this spec would be great.

You need to balance it to be valuable in ALL game modes, and I can’t imagine “CC spec” ever being useful in general PvE. If you want a CC-spec, it needs to be a variable in the traits, that if you trait one way, it’s at least solid DPS, a general purpose “killing mobs, contributing to boss fights” design, and then if you trait a different way it loses a lot fo damage in exchange for CC boosts. But you can’t just have an entire spec that says “well, you’ll do pathetic damage, but plenty of CCs!”

Advanced weaponry-Player shots pierces with a rifle or harpoon gun(those skills have reduced recharge) and rifle attacks heal allies on hit(example: if an attack would deal 10,000 damage it also heals any allies in the shots trajectory by 10,000).

Interesting, but unlikely to build around this, since lining up piercing attacks to usefully heal people is very tricky, and one decent heal is not a Heal build.

Reload- costs 4, and then can be stationary channeled for up to four seconds: restoring 2 initiation per second, 2 seconds of vigor per seconds, and granting 5 seconds of stealth

Hmm, but reload was already pretty great. It’s a tricky balancing act. I assume that the stealth is applied when you start it? The balance issue there is that it makes it harder for enemies to counter the channel, which is the counterplay to it. The upside to it is that it gives you two usage options, either to channel it out to full for max regen, or just tap it and then use Deadshot for damage. Spammable no-target Stealth seems a little worrisome.

Without specific counters built into it, you could spam this ability ASAP and end up with about 15 seconds of stacked Stealth, then run away, then channel it to full (gaining a second more), then move, channel again (gain a second more), then spam a few more times to gain another 10 or so, etc., it’s casual perma-Stealth until you feel like attacking.

I think Reload needs to have Reveal built in, rather than Stealth, so that enemies can counter it. What Stealth is in the toolkit should either require hitting a target, or have a respectable CD.

Maybe take Smoke Grenade, and add a built in Blast finisher, or give one of the base moves a Leap Finisher effect, so that you can use the smoke field to generate a little Stealth.

“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”

Thief Elite spec: The Agent (Rifle & Gadgets)

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Posted by: Doctor.1905

Doctor.1905

Armed Robber
The armed robber can be a far ranged attacker or a close ranged CC threat. They utilize shouts to control their opponent. This elite specialization gains an f2, f3, and f4 skill.

f1- Steal
f2- “DON’T MOVE!” Enemy is immobilized for 3 seconds. 20 Second cooldown. 600 Range.
f3- “PUT THE MONEY IN THE BAG!” Enemy is stunned for 2 seconds. 30 Second cooldown. 200 Range.
f4- Cheese it- Break stun and dash away from the enemy. 800 Units and 40 Second cooldown.

Rifle 1- Bang- A 1200 range auto attack that deals a random amount of damage to the enemy.
Stealth attack- Shoot and steal- Shoot the enemy (1200 range), teleport to them, and knock them down dealing mid range damage.
Rifle 2- Personal Lesson- Punch the enemy with your brass knuckles, can be chained 3 times
Rifle 3- Butt- Melee range attack that teleports you 1000 range backwards
Rifle 4- No Witnesses- Uses all your initiative to shoot your opponent once per initiative spent in rapid succession
Rifle 5- Panic- Can only be used when you have less than 3 initiative, stealth yourself for 5 seconds and gain 3 initiative- has a 10 second cooldown

Loud crashing noises -Self heal that grants quickness to you and your allies for 5 seconds
“Where’s the money?”- Inflicts fear and recharges your steal.
“I ain’t going to jail!”- Shoot yourself instantly putting you in the defeated state.
“This is a robbery!”- Pulse might, fury, and swiftness to you and allies around you and stun your opponents (600 range)
“Get in!” You and your allies enter the BMW you stole and cruise around.

Thief Elite spec: The Agent (Rifle & Gadgets)

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Posted by: Dadnir.5038

Dadnir.5038

Armed Robber
The armed robber can be a far ranged attacker or a close ranged CC threat. They utilize shouts to control their opponent. This elite specialization gains an f2, f3, and f4 skill.

f1- Steal
f2- “DON’T MOVE!” Enemy is immobilized for 3 seconds. 20 Second cooldown. 600 Range.
f3- “PUT THE MONEY IN THE BAG!” Enemy is stunned for 2 seconds. 30 Second cooldown. 200 Range.
f4- Cheese it- Break stun and dash away from the enemy. 800 Units and 40 Second cooldown.

Rifle 1- Bang- A 1200 range auto attack that deals a random amount of damage to the enemy.
Stealth attack- Shoot and steal- Shoot the enemy (1200 range), teleport to them, and knock them down dealing mid range damage.
Rifle 2- Personal Lesson- Punch the enemy with your brass knuckles, can be chained 3 times
Rifle 3- Butt- Melee range attack that teleports you 1000 range backwards
Rifle 4- No Witnesses- Uses all your initiative to shoot your opponent once per initiative spent in rapid succession
Rifle 5- Panic- Can only be used when you have less than 3 initiative, stealth yourself for 5 seconds and gain 3 initiative- has a 10 second cooldown

Loud crashing noises -Self heal that grants quickness to you and your allies for 5 seconds
“Where’s the money?”- Inflicts fear and recharges your steal.
“I ain’t going to jail!”- Shoot yourself instantly putting you in the defeated state.
“This is a robbery!”- Pulse might, fury, and swiftness to you and allies around you and stun your opponents (600 range)
“Get in!” You and your allies enter the BMW you stole and cruise around.

I absolutely love this! It just feel like we miss the very important : “IT’S A HOLD UP!”. Or maybe it could replace “this is a robbery!”?

No core profession should be balanced around an optional elite specialization.

Thief Elite spec: The Agent (Rifle & Gadgets)

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Posted by: King Kai.4516

King Kai.4516

I was close on a couple of these traits and skills.