Guild Wars 2

Just a quick balance question on thieves heal. Every other class in the game has two mechanics per heal, sometimes 3 (if it is a combo field) and thief heal has 4. I was just wondering the reasoning to this considering the effective heal when considering things like ranged attacks no longer flying at the thief and hitting the ground, pets resetting, single target attacks missing, etc.

I’m assuming you are talking about Hide in Shadows (stealth, regen, conditional condition removal, and heal), since the other 2 heals have 3 or only 2 mechanics. Ranged attacks, if they were channeled, still fire and hit the thief. Single target attacks still hit the thief if they follow the normal rules (thief didn’t dodge the attack, the attacker wasn’t blinded, and the attacker is still attack where the thief is).

When comparing heal abilities, it’s important to compare everything, not just the mechanics. It’s easy to say this ability does 4 things, while mine only does 3, mine needs a buff.

Take for example Warrior Mending:
-more upfront heal
-has a shorter cd
-cures 2 of any condition

Thief HiS:
-can cure 1 more condition, but may cure none of your conditions (if you were chilled/crippled/weakened/vulnerable…)
-stealths you
-grants you regen

or Ranger Healing Spring:

-less upfront healing then HiS
-more regen then HiS
-Heals anyone in it
-need to be in it to benefit from all the healing
-Water combo field (best part of this heal) → grants the possibility for more healing/regen to anyone using/near the combo field

Just three examples (I tried to use the ones I most commonly see, ranger is more PvE then PvP).

Thief HiS also grants an up front heal, from a strictly healing perspective curing all conditions that do damage (poison as well giving it full heal) multiplies the effectiveness of that heal. Most attacks that hit stealth targets are swipe attacks (GS/Hammer/Sword) and that requires the thief to not move or dodge while in stealth.
Again, this comes down to a mechanic issue, even though I think that the things HiS gives is way more effective than any other heal in the game. 4 > 2.

Dynnen.6405:

Thief HiS also grants an up front heal, from a strictly healing perspective curing all conditions that do damage (poison as well giving it full heal) multiplies the effectiveness of that heal. Most attacks that hit stealth targets are swipe attacks (GS/Hammer/Sword) and that requires the thief to not move or dodge while in stealth.
Again, this comes down to a mechanic issue, even though I think that the things HiS gives is way more effective than any other heal in the game. 4 > 2.

I know HiS grants an up front heal, my comparison was to say its not as big as many heals. Also forgot to mention that Healing spring cures conditions! We also need to know what the healing coefficient for each heal is before really being able to compare them.

If 4>2, then is my 4 cents > your two nickles? Is my truck + shovel > your plow? Stop trying to compare the number of mechanics something has, and try to start comparing what all the mechanics add up to.

Is this another “OMG thief OP Nurf it” thread ? If so plz move to one of 153 threads with same idea and stop flooding thief forums, becouse of u our fellow thieves cant find any usefull info here and keep spaming heartseeker for 600 damage, not realizing that it is not an opener.

I agree, Fletch. I often check the header of the forum to make sure I’m not in a bug/fixes/complaint forum. I feel bad for people that want to come here and try to find something useful about their class when it’s flooded with garbage.

I saw the post directly after it went up and assumed the OP was trolling. Sorry to OP if your question was simple and honest, but it won’t be well received anytime soon in this forum.

I see, it’s so obvious, the one healing skill is better then the other because it’s healing is split into a direct heal and a regenerative heal.

Just report it and be done with it.

Not saying nerf, was wondering why HiS has so much more to it than every other heal in the game.

Figured one of u guys might know, since…ya know you’re thieves and all =P

If you think HiS is the best heal in the game I strongly suggest you broaden your experiences.

The upfront heal is anemic at best. When you pop a heal, you generally need healing NOW, not over the next 4 seconds. When compared to other burst heals such as Signet of Resolve (guardian), Healing Surge (warrior), even Ether Feast (mesmer), the burst is only 2/3rds and on a similar cooldown.

The condition removal can be useful, it also can be utterly pointless depending what is on you.

Is it a good heal? sure… is it the “best heal in the game”? not a chance. I would swap it out for nearly any other class’s burst heal in a second.

another way to look at it: HiS only has 3 effects, but the “heal” is split up into “weak upfront heal” and “weak regen over time heal”. Both do the same thing, only instead of getting it all in one useful burst (like Guardians, Warriors, Mesmers etc…) it comes in two steps. The total healing is about equal, but only if you survive for the full regen, and it isn’t purged/stolen off you.

Yea a lot of use Thieves have a bad attitude on the forums now. We are always on the defensive now.

So many people are spamming our forums with nonsense about balancing this and that because they got killed by a Thief.

Before a couple weeks ago. You could come in here and ask this question and you would of received a well thought out post giving you your answer, but we have been innodated with with negative thread after thread and the mods do nothing about it.

So tempers are high.

Go check the other professions forums. You don’t see Thieves spamming their forums or asking for balance changes or being rude and derailing. Their forums are pretty clean, ours on the other hand look like Auschwitz circa 1944.

The mods have given me a temp ban, deleted many of my post that were constructive and polite in response to these Nerf threads. Yet those that are creating them and attempting to troll and be disruptive do not get their threads deleted or removed.

Ok, so you’re saying that as long as u can stay outta sight, utilize the regen, then its equal to other heals. I actually stopped using Signet of Resolve due to it requiring stability otherwise its interrupted. Alright, thanks for the break down.
I still think its really strong due to the stealth, but the other mechanics bring it in line with other bigger number heals. Thanks for the info Imperatora =D
(See? Not a flame QQ Nerf post)

yes, if you stand around and to absolutely nothing, then after four seconds it is roughly on par with what other classes have instantly after their heal activates.

That means, no back stab, no Tac Strike, no pistol Sneak Attack. That also assumes that your foe has no channelled attacks and no AOEs.

HiS is roughly on par with other “utility heals” like Shelter (guardian), Mending (war), Glyph of Elemental Harmony (ele) etc in terms of actual health healed. However, there is no real burst heal alternative for thiefs to use to get a big heal right away.

HiS and Signet of Resolve both have the same cast time, as often as you are interrupted using SoR, we are interrupted using HiS… only HiS heals for FAR less instantly and still less after the regen in finished.

Fletch.3572:

I don’t see much a point of coming to this forum anymore unless there’s a major patch or expansion coming out… its getting insane ><

This guy has a signet that heals, and constantly removes conditions while not on cooldown(its not even in use and being useful!)….. can generate healing and protection from pressing 1(has nothing to do with 6, default, but has everything to do with 6, default!), and letting it go on its own……. It’s impossible to even talk with these people, they are here to argue and that’s it.

Comparing one skill of a class(6, default) to one skill of another class(6 default) doesn’t make sense at all, none, there is still 1-5 and 7-0 (default, go ahead and argue key bindings next!)that go with that one skill.

Dunno why I got so worked up about this today =D Junk like this here all the time

What keybinds ? ppl that die to thiefs 24/7 and come here to qq have no keybinds exept default 1-0

Dynnen.6405:

Ok, so you’re saying that as long as u can stay outta sight, utilize the regen, then its equal to other heals. I actually stopped using Signet of Resolve due to it requiring stability otherwise its interrupted. Alright, thanks for the break down.
I still think its really strong due to the stealth, but the other mechanics bring it in line with other bigger number heals. Thanks for the info Imperatora =D
(See? Not a flame QQ Nerf post)

It can be very very strong, or pretty weak, depending on the situation. Think of it as a jack of all trades heal, does a little of everything, but if you just need it for a heal, it’s not as good as other heals in the game.

I never meant to come off as hostile in my post, but as it was stated, many many threads get started here like yours in an attempt to create more nerf threads (I think they caught on that any thread with “nerf” in the title gets insta-closed by the mods).

Look forward to the day that Thieves can look at their forums and not have to sift through trash to get the answers they seek.