My opinion on Thief balance (pvp) and suggestions.
Traits:
Critical Strikes is FAR too good. Either the traits need nerfs or the base stat gain needs to be halved. The base thief dmg should be brought up a substantial amount to allow for different amulet/trait choices (leaving Zerker, 30CS at the same dps as is now).
Deadly Arts is lacking. Improv is extremely situational. Backfighting is amazing, except when you go down in a teamfight as a thief, you are almost NEVER getting back up. Mug is a ‘meh’ trait now. Exposed weakness is ok but there’s a 25 trait 10% bonus in every other tree too.
Traits like Dagger Training, Combined Training, Sundering Strikes should be brought up by at least double. Right now, 30 in CS is mandatory for dps output. It would be great if DA could become an alternative with different tradeoffs than just being vastly inferior and supplementary.
Shadow Arts is lacking. I would like to see more support options such as Shadow Protector and less of “Stay in Stealth and get x healing/sec, or x condi removal, or x might”. More venom and trap support would do well here.
One example might be for Infusion of Shadow, (if coding allows for it) if you take this trait, gain 3 or 4 initiative from a skill that stealths you. Stealth cannot be stacked in duration when taking this trait.
Most likely a terrible suggestion (Shadow Refuge presenting problems), but the point is to promote more in and out of stealth instead relying on stealthing for 10-20+ seconds at a time. I mean, even when D/D was popular, people were running 25-30-0-0-15. If a build that relies on stealth every 3 seconds for backstabs can’t use this traitline, something is wrong. Possibly change Hidden Assassin to grant more stacks of might but only when entering stealth from a non-stealthed state (again, if coding allows). I feel this traitline may be the key (along with /D buffs) to bringing back D/D.
Acrobatics: Fairly balanced. Good amount of tradeoff for survivability. Assassin’s Reward could use some love though (as well as all other thief healing scaling ex. signet of malice). The might on dodge is ok but Thief really doesn’t benefit from hybrid dmg at all (this needs changes too hopefully when hitting base dmg—namely Pistol 1, D/D 3, and Cluster Bomb). I would like to see a Might power-condi build become viable.
Master Trapper could use some oomph-factor such as maybe ‘increase trap radius’ or ‘gain x initiative when trap is triggered’.
Fleet Shadow is extremely counterintuitive to Acrobatics as it doesn’t stack with swiftness. I feel if this trait were changed to stack and be nerfed to around 30% it would become worth considering.
Trickery: Simply feels unfinished. It’s like they got up to the 15pt and said eh, w/e let’s stop here and throw in some really bad traits. I almost feel as if Mug should be reverted and moved to 30 in Trickery. Maybe merge it with the 1-sec daze as well since that’s alot of dps you’re losing in trickery.
Bountiful Theft does not steal duration OR stacks. I feel possibly to synergize more, change it to: On Steal use, copy your boons to all nearby allies. Obviously, this is extremely powerful and would be moved to a 30pt trait along with Mug. Although it would synergize extremely well with S/D, be reminded that taking 30 in Trickery is a huge blow/tradeoff to your dps output (hopefully not /as/ much with base # tweaking and CS changes).
Instinctual Response (Along with Last Refuge), could be changed to give you a buff that stealths you on your next attack rather than stealthing you immediately
(likely in the middle of an attack and revealing you) to make this a more appealing pick up. Or, make it a different category of stealth which is immune to the revealed debuff.
Skills:
Caltrops-
Huge nerf from 15 to 10 seconds. Not quite sure why since condi thief is/was in an extremely weak state. Possibly tack on an immobilize for 1-2sec upon hitting initially and/or buff it to 3 stacks of bleed.
Smoke Screen-
Blinding Field that blocks projectiles. The concept is a bit lackluster. Possibly add reflect, but I would wait on this pending Pistol buffs. Also, I feel smoke projectile finishers are extremely lackluster. Whirls are strong, but I feel projectiles need something more like a secondary effect. Possibly auto pierce and/or increased damage or critical chance.
Shadow Refuge-
Extremely Strong. Has been mandatory since day 1. It’s our best team-support utility. We need more skills like this. This is not particularly thief related, but I believe stealth is capped a bit too high (14s) and creates too big of an advantage for game openers. I would feel good about it being around 8-9 seconds. Enough to reveal the enemy team/player shortly before arriving to the node from stealthing out of line of sight.
Roll For Initiative-
As a stunbreaker, lackluster. 60 second cooldown. Simply cannot even be compared to Shadowstep which is 2 stunbreaks on a 50 second cooldown, doubles as a 1200 range blink, and cures 3 condis on return. 6 Initiative is not worth the tradeoff. It needs to be at least a 40 second cooldown. Possibly lower than 40 and lower the initiative gain.
Haste-
Decent skill. May or may not see play if S/P gets the changes it needs.
ShadowStep-
Mandatory for most thieves not running Sword Mainhand—see Roll for Initiative.
Blinding Powder-
Simple skill. Instant stealth on a 40 second cooldown. Not terrible, but not great either. Situationally useful for getting instant interrupts (Sword) or no-cost backstabs (Dagger). Should be at least a 25-30 second cooldown to become a competitive pick.
Infiltrator Signet-
In a good spot. When traited, a 24sec 900range stunbreak blink.
Assassin Signet-
With the recent signet changes, more beneficial to be kept on passive. The cooldown is similar to mug so that’s fine for the most part, but I’d lower the cooldown by at least 5-10 seconds to help promote burst variety outside of Steal(Mug) and increase the damage per hit by 5% max.
Signet of Agility-
Extremely strong with the signet buffs. Especially with an acrobat-focused build.
Signet of Shadows-
Popular choice when D/D was around for securing stomps and roaming faster. With D/P around it sees very little use. Give it stunbreak on active to make it more uses outside of stomping. Blinding a backstab won’t help much when you’re still stuck in a Basi Venom for another second. Probably not enough of a change, but definitely wouldn’t hurt. 30->25sec cooldown would be reasonable, when looking at it comparatively with Infiltrator’s Signet.
Scorpion Wire-
Niche ability. What niche it fills? Outside of jumping puzzles I have no clue honestly. Physical projectiles are weak for the most part and the damage is extremely low. I’d pump up the damage by about triple.
Tripwire-
The strongest trap. Powerful when combined with pre-november nerf S/D thief dazes. Possibly in a good spot pending mesmer rune and para sigil fix with 4->3sec revealed. Could use a damage boost though.
Needle Trap-
Again, damage boost.
Shadow Trap-
Easily accidentally dodged or walked around. Needs a bigger radius to be even begin balancing.
Ambush-
Summon a thief that dies even quicker than you do. Oh, it also does mediocre damage and offers no utility. I’d like to see it replaced with the scorpion wire or the blinding powder spamming thief from Thieves Guild. Possibly give it a 50/50 like Engie elixers.
Venoms-
Take up too many utility slots. 45sec for a 1-1-1sec chill? Given, its far better with Venom Share, but still. I feel as if these need to be combined eg; Spider Venom and Ice Drake Venom combined to give a 8sec poison and 1sec chill on the next 3 attacks. Devourer Venom is really the only one worth using. It would be nice if new venoms were introduced. This could possibly help supplement the condition build. Maybe add a burning venom. Or throw it on top of Skale Venom so you have much needed condition buffers. (After all, you /would/ be saccing Caltrops to take it most likely)
Heals-
Signet of malice needs work. The other 2 are fine.
Elites-
Thieves Guild needs more HP (about 50-75% more). Dagger Storm leaves you extremely vulnerable to melee attacks and is basically just asking to put a target over your head. I suggest adding a 50% dmg reduction while in use. As it stands, neither can compare to Basi Venom.
(edited by Jumper.9482)
Weapon Sets:
D/D-
Useless after /D nerfs. Overshadowed by /P in nearly every aspect especially after the 4sec reveal change. First off, revert revealed. Secondly, either bump up the dmg (I’d say about 75-85% the original would be good) or rework Dancing Dagger (plenty of options here including adding burn/poison—or possibly a daze similar to headshot but only when hit from behind) and revert the CnD 33% dmg nerf. Death Blossom could use some more base power to be used as a situationally skillful evade.
D/D(Condi)-
Needs more variety. Move the poison on the 3rd auto chain to the 2nd chain for more access to poison. Dancing Dagger could use a burn or something. The vulnerability from CnD could last a few seconds longer to help act as condi buffers.
P/D-
Pistol Mainhand dps is extremely weak. It doesn’t have the aoe or the evades that D/D does. I like the Shadow Strike skill but it doesn’t synergize with the kit at all which relies on you being in melee range to deal damage with CnD and Sneak Attack. The first step to fixing this is to bump up Vital Shot’s damage as well as possibly remaking the Pistol #2. The set needs more condition variety and/or more base power.
S/P-
Gets destroyed by retal. There should be a trait in Critical Strikes or something “on critical strikes, take 75% reduced damage from retaliation”. Something like that would probably be enough as well as reverting the 15% dps nerf to make up for taking said trait and haste nerfs.
P/P-
The entire kit is flawed. Needs a big rework. More dps on vital shot. Possibly consider making Unload a cone AoE similar to MF’s ult from League. Pistol #2 needs a complete remake possibly working in a leap or blast somehow. Again, smoke projectiles are EXTREMELY weak and there needs to be more incentive to use Black Powder. As said before, possibly make smoke projectiles do an extra 25-50% more dmg and/or make them pierce as well.
D/P-
The model thief kit. Every kit should aim to be like this one. Each and every skill synergizes so well and you use each skill depending on the situation. Paired with the Mug and Shortbow nerfs however, this set may be a bit sub-par compared to what other classes can bring to a team. This set I would place only slightly above Warriors and Necros currently.
S/D-
Pre-November nerf made for a very good control/cc spec. /D got destroyed and para sigils became broken. The daze was reduced from 2 seconds to 1 1/2sec. It was then hit again some months later with 3->4sec reveal.
Currently it is our best weapon set thanks to the Flanking Strike buffs. Most boon-based bunkers drop within a whopping 2 minutes of its pressure 1v1. It only has 2 skills outside of the autoattack however. The CnD>Tactical Strike is an extremely long cast to act as an interrupt and as such, is very rarely used. Once mesmer runes and para sigils are fixed we may see some variation if revealed is reverted to 3 seconds. Hopefully soon we get some reason to use /D#4 other than a ranged Basi Venom applier.
Shortbow-
Supplementary mobility for weapon sets that don’t include S/. Gives the thief teamfight presence when its too dangerous to jump in and eat aoe damage. Not suitable as a primary weapon set as there’s just no reason not to bring an HGH engie in its place. Was in a good spot a few months back but Cluster Bomb got hit with a 15% nerf and then hit again with Trick Shot now being able to be (easily) sidestepped.
(edited by Jumper.9482)
Shadow Arts is lacking
AHahahhahahahahhahahaHWHWHAHWHHhawhawhawhawhwhahawhwahawhawhawhawhawhawhawhawhawhwhhawahw XD
Dude, as long as you have that line there nobody is going to bother reading that wall of text.
(edited by Master of Timespace.2548)
He is right, shadow art in tpvp isn’t really good since it’s a game mode based on capturing points (that doesn’t allow to stay stealthed that much) and the traitline doesn’t provide any damage boost that thieves need if they hope to burst something. The best traits are basically asking you to say in stealth as much as possible which isn’t that great in tpvp but is potentially broken in wvw.
This traitline need a change of focus in order to be more useful in pvp while reducing the abusing potential it offers in wvw, it would honestly be a win win situation imo.
(edited by Puru.4217)
I agree with most of this. I would like to say, however, Jumper, that 30 CS is absolutely not mandatory whatsoever. In fact, all of the traits in CS honestly suck except for the 25 minor (kinda), Executioner (sometimes), and HKiller (in very specific builds). Everything else is absolutely… Just… Negligible, really. The init regen is ok, but is dwarfed by traits from other trees entirely. The 10% bonus on the aforementioned minor requires a very strict set of restrictions that are extremely limiting in battle. Executioner is good, but easily counterable if your opponent knows/thinks you are running it. HKiller… Well, I don’t need to go into detail about that with you.
Then, from a mathematical standpoint, 30 CS actually increases damage by less than if you run 25 DA- easily, as a matter of fact. So the stats on the tree aren’t that good either.
And is it really necessary for damage? Well, if you run zerker (for example), why do you need to boost your damage by that extra couple of percentage points? In your case, it would actually be to your benefit to run Soldier’s ammy over Zerker, as the toughness and vits amplify your defensive capabilities more than the stats on zerker increase your offensive capabilities. And, either way, compared to the amount of offensive amplification from either amulet, 30 CS, statistically, has virtually no significant effect on your damage output.
In all honesty, the only particularly good reason to pick CS is if you’re gonna go all-in, and even then the line is lacking.
I would like Anet to slowly revert the nerfs that was done to weapon skill sets and see if they can balance the traits/stats better. Nerfing weapon skills really pigeonholed spvp thief players into d/p and sb at one point in time. Buffing one weapon skill(s/d – 3) brought a whole new build into the mix which is what they should be doing. I feel that each weapon set should be either strictly dps or strictly condi. That way we don’t have skills that really don’t belong in the weapon set. I’m talking about you Death Blossom.
It may be a little strong but Dancing Dagger should straight up immob maybe for 1/2 or 3/4 a second, bounce once, and cost probably 5 init. Anet obviously wants weapon skills 4 and 5 to be utility thats why x/D got the damage shaft, but they really didn’t add any utility to dancing dagger after nerfing damage to uselessness. Cripple is a joke and doesn’t even give the 6.75s cripple its advertising. That way dancing dagger can be used to coordinate a burst or prevent escape. In terms of utility, it needs to be at least as good as headshot x/P.
Should’ve stopped reading after “trait that gives 3-4 initiative on stealth” but the skill list did remind me of something in my experience playing a Thief.
The CDs for utility skills in general are too long. I’m guessing the concept of the Thief was “hit (hard) and run”, so the profession is given access to huge burst with spammable initiatives at the cost of longer utility CDs but this doesn’t exist anymore. Anet nerfed damage and traits like mug so a lot of WvW thieves actually play P/D and S/D as much as D/P or D/D but neither of the former gets the benefit of burst yet suffers from extremely long utility CDs. Roll for Initiative and Shadowstep seemed particularly ridiculous. And the Thief really can’t seem to afford the traits to reduce CDs either, unlike my (kitten) condition Mesmer that had both range increase and CD reduction for Manipulations.
PS: P/D offers an interesting playstyle for the Thief but is extremely lackluster, obvious to counter, and uncompetitive. So if Anet can reduce utility CDs and fix P/D, maybe I’ll go back to playing Thief instead of Engi. Or maybe you can fix Engi first…?
I think jumper nailed it. I approve this message. Master of Timeandspace is just a noob mesmer troll who likes to post on thief forums.
Skills:
Signet of Shadows-
Popular choice when D/D was around for securing stomps and roaming faster. With D/P around it sees very little use. Give it stunbreak on active to make it more uses outside of stomping. Blinding a backstab won’t help much when you’re still stuck in a Basi Venom for another second. Probably not enough of a change, but definitely wouldn’t hurt. 30->25sec cooldown would be reasonable, when looking at it comparatively with Infiltrator’s Signet.
I think a better way to improve this signet would be to make a smoke field (like black powder) It’s still a blind but now has some group utility with it and more combo power.
Scorpion Wire-
Niche ability. What niche it fills? Outside of jumping puzzles I have no clue honestly. Physical projectiles are weak for the most part and the damage is extremely low. I’d pump up the damage by about triple.
Its great to get people out of the walls in WvW, but the speed is so slow thakittens easy to dodge and it gets blocked too often.
Needle Trap-
Again, damage boost.
If the trap had a greater area and would pulse imob/poison it would have much more uses to more mobile gameplay (s/x and p/x)
Shadow Trap-
Easily accidentally dodged or walked around. Needs a bigger radius to be even begin balancing.
It needs a reliable teleport.
Ambush-
Summon a thief that dies even quicker than you do. Oh, it also does mediocre damage and offers no utility. I’d like to see it replaced with the scorpion wire or the blinding powder spamming thief from Thieves Guild. Possibly give it a 50/50 like Engie elixers.
In my experience it randonly summons one of the 2 thiefs from the elite (maybe with less HP, but they have the same skills. One AoE blinds and unload, the other scorp-wire and HS/auto attack. The main problem with this is thakittens unreliable who you going to summon and the AI is, well the AI… Standing in AoE/100b and shooting itself to death against reflection shields/walls.
Do not agree with a nerf to any particular thing to critical strikes. Your idea coupled with base damage increase would be non beneficial to the thief and have it back in the same position as it is now. Anet would not increase the base stats by a high enough margin to compensate for the nerf. For the rest of your ideas, they aren’t that bad but need more fine tuning lets take Blinding Powder, Fleeting Shadow and Infusion of Shadow.
The utility “Blinding Powder” could be a thief version of the mesmer’s decoy, a stealth that is a stun breaker but blinds instead of summoning something.
Your idea to nerf the trait “Fleeting Shadow” to 30% movement speed while in stealth would virtually do nothing even if you had Signet of Shadows as it would not stack in affect and there is a movement speed cap in place as well.
The idea to increase the initiative gained from using stealth with the trait “Infusion of Shadow” is lackluster with this nerf “Stealth cannot be stacked in duration when taking this trait.”. You know that this change would destroy a few uses of d/p, Shadow Refuge and make it not worth while to take for many people. I’m sure many other tpvp players would take it that use /d or d/p, oh but no they wouldn’t even bother as there are better trait options.
In conclusion, these were only a few examples. What should be kept in mind though is what the main role of the thief is in tpvp. To quickly kill the main prioritized targets, assist in the capture of enemy points or to take enemy points by ourselves. We are not built to bunker at points in a conventional sense as we do not have the base stats to allow us to do so. We also have a mechanic that doesn’t even help retain points which is “stealth”.
(edited by The Primary.6371)
The only buff I would ask is buffing the condition thieves, either by dmg, duration, or add more bleed stacks on abilities like Death Blossom & Sneak Attack.
Shadow Arts is lacking
AHahahhahahahahhahahaHWHWHAHWHHhawhawhawhawhwhahawhwahawhawhawhawhawhawhawhawhawhwhhawahw XD
Dude, as long as you have that line there nobody is going to bother reading that wall of text.
The trait line requires you to stay in stealth to benefit. This is major drawback in tPvP and PvE where you want to be putting out as much damage as possible and not hiding while you heal up.
I think abilities like shadow rejuvenation should give an upfront amount of healing when entering stealth so players are encouraged to come in and out of stealth to benefit the most. I feel this would also go some way to fix the d/p builds in wvw as well.
Rather than making infusion of shadow prevent you from stacking stealth I think they could just make the initiative return only apply when entering stealth and do nothing if you’re already in stealth and are just stacking it.
Critical Strikes is FAR too good. Either the traits need nerfs or the base stat gain needs to be halved.
I stopped reading right there. What can better prove the idiocy behind the anti-thief QQ then this suggestion of yours
All classes increase their Critical Damage with 1% per trait point, or their Precision with 10 points per trait point. Mesmer, Elementalist, Ranger and Thief have Precision on one trait line combined, making Dueling, Air Magic, Skirmishing and Critical Strikes equal in stat gain.
Now convince me that the remainder of your ramblings is worth my time.
Critical Strikes is FAR too good. Either the traits need nerfs or the base stat gain needs to be halved.
I stopped reading right there. What can better prove the idiocy behind the anti-thief QQ then this suggestion of yours
All classes increase their Critical Damage with 1% per trait point, or their Precision with 10 points per trait point. Mesmer, Elementalist, Ranger and Thief have Precision on one trait line combined, making Dueling, Air Magic, Skirmishing and Critical Strikes equal in stat gain.
Now convince me that the remainder of your ramblings is worth my time.
You should probably just read it.
Critical Strikes is FAR too good. Either the traits need nerfs or the base stat gain needs to be halved.
I stopped reading right there. What can better prove the idiocy behind the anti-thief QQ then this suggestion of yours
All classes increase their Critical Damage with 1% per trait point, or their Precision with 10 points per trait point. Mesmer, Elementalist, Ranger and Thief have Precision on one trait line combined, making Dueling, Air Magic, Skirmishing and Critical Strikes equal in stat gain.
Now convince me that the remainder of your ramblings is worth my time.
You should probably just read it.
Not convincing enough. Your lack of effort is so poor that it is insulting.
(deleted) eh not worth it.
You can delete the post using the trashcan icon.
(deleted) eh not worth it.
You can delete the post using the trashcan icon.
fancy
I like the points you’re making, but I’m guessing this is only from the sPvP perspective, as thief in PvE/WvW is much different than thief in sPvP. Some of your suggestions are great, but would provide problems with balance in mainly WvW as the other source of PvP within the game.
I like the points you’re making, but I’m guessing this is only from the sPvP perspective, as thief in PvE/WvW is much different than thief in sPvP. Some of your suggestions are great, but would provide problems with balance in mainly WvW as the other source of PvP within the game.
Yes, this is obviously an sPvP thread.
I don’t sPvP much, in part because of sPvP specific nerfs like 4s revealed and CnD damage. Are those nerfs still necessary? I hope not.
Critical Strikes is FAR too good. Either the traits need nerfs or the base stat gain needs to be halved.
I stopped reading right there. What can better prove the idiocy behind the anti-thief QQ then this suggestion of yours
All classes increase their Critical Damage with 1% per trait point, or their Precision with 10 points per trait point. Mesmer, Elementalist, Ranger and Thief have Precision on one trait line combined, making Dueling, Air Magic, Skirmishing and Critical Strikes equal in stat gain.
Now convince me that the remainder of your ramblings is worth my time.
Don’t think he is another anti thief QQer seeing he is one of the highest ranking thief players on the NA leaderboard.
It’s no lie that CS is one of the best trait line for the thief, not so much the stats but the traits themselves. It’s also no lie that other trait line needs to be on bar with CS for them to be taken over it, how it’s done is up for debate.
My opinion on Thief balance (pvp) and suggestions.
Traits:
Critical Strikes is FAR too good. Either the traits need nerfs or the base stat gain needs to be halved. The base thief dmg should be brought up a substantial amount to allow for different amulet/trait choices (leaving Zerker, 30CS at the same dps as is now).
I completely agree that CS is far too good. Too good that it’s in imbalance in PvP but it is necessary in PvE where mobs scales upto Level 84 Epic.
If Anet is to consider tweaking this, they better limit this in PvP only.
Deadly Arts is lacking. Improv is extremely situational. Backfighting is amazing, except when you go down in a teamfight as a thief, you are almost NEVER getting back up. Mug is a ‘meh’ trait now. Exposed weakness is ok but there’s a 25 trait 10% bonus in every other tree too.
Traits like Dagger Training, Combined Training, Sundering Strikes should be brought up by at least double. Right now, 30 in CS is mandatory for dps output. It would be great if DA could become an alternative with different tradeoffs than just being vastly inferior and supplementary.
I’m afraid what the trade off would be, but if Anet will limit this for PvP only, then I’d be fine with that.
It’s no lie that CS is one of the best trait line for the thief, not so much the stats but the traits themselves.
I don’t care where he ranks, he said the stats were too strong and should be halved, which is, strange, as the same stats, with the same effect, are available to everyone.
Every class needs at least one Powerful Tree. Sorry Jumper, I agreed with you so far but I think other trees need brought up to par, not that one beaten down.
I get the feeling that some of the responses to this post were simply statements of hateful opinion, specifically:
Timeandspace- didn’t consider the weakness of stealth in capping points- this is, after all, a thread about sPvP, as stated in the OP.
frans- read my analysis of the usefulness of the stats brought by 30 CS. I don’t share a lot of Jumper’s beliefs, but I’m pretty sure that he’s smart enough that he realizes that the stats aren’t what makes CS so powerful, it’s the traits, namely Executioner. Just because other classes have a prec line, doesn’t mean that those trees are any good. After all, it isn’t the stats that are the problem.
The only real thing i disagree with is haste being in a good place. Honestly even if s/p was made better i wouldn’t use it, the drawback is far too massive imo. Probably my most hated thief utility skill, i’d rather use traps.
I get the feeling that some of the responses to this post were simply statements of hateful opinion, specifically:
Timeandspace- didn’t consider the weakness of stealth in capping points- this is, after all, a thread about sPvP, as stated in the OP.
frans- read my analysis of the usefulness of the stats brought by 30 CS. I don’t share a lot of Jumper’s beliefs, but I’m pretty sure that he’s smart enough that he realizes that the stats aren’t what makes CS so powerful, it’s the traits, namely Executioner. Just because other classes have a prec line, doesn’t mean that those trees are any good. After all, it isn’t the stats that are the problem.
Logically yes they are to powerful, but when you consider what other classes have in there powerful trees its actually pretty much balanced.
All classes have a Omg! Tree, even thieves. If you just simply nerf it down to the levels of others you simply have a broken class.
Weapon Sets:
Sad state of affairs.
We had 4 viable melee sets. Somehow in theircrusade for balance, we’ve lost build diversity and intra-thief balance is at the worst it has ever been. After the december nerfs, S/P, D/D and D/P were all still usable sets. Then they put the nail in the coffin for S/P when its main utility, the very utility they nerfed Pistol whip around, got nerfed. Someone could say Venom share, but how many Venom Share S/P’s can anyone remember seeing since Launch?10 of em? Now left with 2 2 sets, simultaneously S/D gets nerfed again since while it fell far behind S/P after November. Haste+mug on anything could burst. D/D’s already at this point a fairly uncommon set there is basically 1 main set, D/D and Swords on the dryer. They nerf mug, buff S/D. Somehow S/D returns to the public eye but the set has degenerated greatly in skill use. D/P starts to falter from lack of damage. D/D drops out of use. Ridiculous how we’ve fallen this far, and yet that is just melee. in the months since launch at no point did P/D or P/P become credible. The 900 range shortbow now wants to run into 300 range so it can hit its auto attack.
Nothing has positively changed for build diversity in the thief. The game launched with 5 viable weapon sets out of 7, and has degraded to 3, where that number can be argued to be even less.
They could easily bring S/P back in to the game this month with damage buffs to PW and Black Powder (simultaneously helping out D/P though P/P needs far more then that). Wouldn’t be perfect due to group fight retaliation cleave = Death and something should be done about that. However if that damage buff comes in, the zoning potential of S/P is better than any other melee spec and it strengthens the threat when venom sharing.
SoM shouldn’t apply based on caltrops. Other then that definitely SoM needs the buff.
Some very interesting perspectives you put out here. Though I certainly disagree about Bountiful. You can’t seriously propose pigeon holing all the boon removal into S/D. It’s been bad enough that Bountiful is the only auxillary option, they’ve got to sprinkle a couple more boon removing applicants in the pipeline. Some utils certainly wouldn’t mind the addition.
Also I dont think CS is above anything. Outside of executioner what really sticks out about CS? Nothing, it’s just another trait line. If you say Executioner is a really strong trait compared to other options then definitely. It sticks out like a sore thumb. Executioner vs Hard to catch isn’t a debate.
(edited by ensoriki.5789)
I laughed so hard reading this.
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