Thief Needs 1200 Range.

Thief Needs 1200 Range.

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Posted by: Blaze.4692

Blaze.4692

Has anyone else noticed that every class except thief has access to at least one skill with 1200 range?

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Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

Thief Needs 1200 Range.

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Posted by: Blaze.4692

Blaze.4692

yeah a thief can move 1200 range but it can’t shoot 1200 range. I’m referring to skills that do damage.

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Posted by: godmoney.6025

godmoney.6025

I can backstab-steal for 12k dmg from 1200 range on a 21s cooldown. Not many other classes can turn any of their high damaging melee attacks into 1200 range like we can.

Cluster Bomb used to be 1200 range back in the day, but it was nerfed to 900 for some unholy reason.

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Posted by: Fat Disgrace.4275

Fat Disgrace.4275

We do not need 1200 attacks. Things like sword 2# and shadow shot are already strong, not to mention steal. Unload can sting like hell so why should that be 1200? 900 is a good range for thief

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Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

We don’t need 1200 range. This game needs more LoS and no elite specs in pvp.

All is Vain~
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Posted by: Wargameur.6950

Wargameur.6950

main ~ Esper Jace (Thief )/ Ellundril Jiluan
(mesmer ) – EU [Teef]

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Posted by: saerni.2584

saerni.2584

Thief with steal, shadowstep and shadow shot (or a ranged attack) can hit from 3300 range.

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Posted by: godmoney.6025

godmoney.6025

@saerni Add infiltrator signet too!

La Fantoma – Aurora Glade

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Posted by: saerni.2584

saerni.2584

A fair point, so make that 4200 range.

On a more serious note, speed of your character is more important than weapon range.

Im one of the faster thieves out there. I take standard sb and shadow step but I also take the cool down reduction in SA so my cooldown on Shadowstep is 40. I also can get super speed if I’m in stealth. This advantage is more than enough to make 900 range on my pistol sufficient.

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

So long as there aren’t definitive penalties for utilizing range such as a slowness in mobility, no stealth, or big damage cuts, I think the profession as it is is likely better off without.

If only there was a way to incorporate it well…

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Posted by: babazhook.6805

babazhook.6805

A fair point, so make that 4200 range.

On a more serious note, speed of your character is more important than weapon range.

Im one of the faster thieves out there. I take standard sb and shadow step but I also take the cool down reduction in SA so my cooldown on Shadowstep is 40. I also can get super speed if I’m in stealth. This advantage is more than enough to make 900 range on my pistol sufficient.

The only way thief can get superspeed (100 percent normal) is via trapper runes and traps.

Are you sure this not Hidden thief (50 percent speed added to normal). ?

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Posted by: Blaze.4692

Blaze.4692

what i was thinking about when i posted this was situations like claw of jormag and wvw you can’t really hit CoJ without going into the frostbite zone and its difficult to hit enemies from the top of a wall when youre defending a tower.

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Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

what i was thinking about when i posted this was situations like claw of jormag and wvw you can’t really hit CoJ without going into the frostbite zone and its difficult to hit enemies from the top of a wall when youre defending a tower.

You are not supposed to hit Jormag from there, you are supposed to defend golems and let them nuke Jormag. The fact that rangers, eles, Dhs and co. can hit the boss from that range is not intended.

As far as towers go, same thing, you are supposed to use arrowcarts and such.

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Posted by: Fat Disgrace.4275

Fat Disgrace.4275

or stand back, farm the champions that spawn, ignoring the fake champions and leech jormag it self…thats what i do :p

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Posted by: Jugglemonkey.8741

Jugglemonkey.8741

Between sword 2, shadowstep and steal I can move 3.3k units to engage with melee, and if stuff goes wrong I can port 2.4k units back towards where I started. That’s pretty much the max distance I can target something on open ground. What more do you want exactly?

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Posted by: Amante.8109

Amante.8109

An old but still correct observation. Don’t bother making it here, people have already Stockholm Syndrome’d themselves into justifying Thief as the only profession without a 1200 range weapon (and the only profession that didn’t receive base range increases when range increasing traits were baked in last year).

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Posted by: BlaqueFyre.5678

BlaqueFyre.5678

With today’s Game environment Thief needs its 1200 range Weapon back, the only reasons they removed it was because of Great Mobility, and High Stealth access, but guess what they have been giving classes with 1200+ weapons Great Stealth access and better Mobility without taking their long range capabilities the main offender of this has been Druid.

So those reasons are now a complete moot point, they have been increasing every other classes Mobility options and giving some higher stealth access, now it is time for them to give Thief back a 1200 range option, either by removing the Nerf from SB or adding a new 1200 range Weapon.

Being able to engage from long distance by closing the gap between you and an opponent isn’t the same as having access to a weapon with 1200+ range on all Attacks.

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Posted by: saerni.2584

saerni.2584

A fair point, so make that 4200 range.

On a more serious note, speed of your character is more important than weapon range.

Im one of the faster thieves out there. I take standard sb and shadow step but I also take the cool down reduction in SA so my cooldown on Shadowstep is 40. I also can get super speed if I’m in stealth. This advantage is more than enough to make 900 range on my pistol sufficient.

The only way thief can get superspeed (100 percent normal) is via trapper runes and traps.

Are you sure this not Hidden thief (50 percent speed added to normal). ?

Ah, my mistake. I don’t use super speed so I thought it was a 50% bonus like SA provides. Either way I’m faster :-p

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Posted by: Mara.6782

Mara.6782

Next elite spec give thief 1200 range most likely and party support because thats what thief lacks.
Skills could be marks that show over enemies head (like what Mordrem Guard Sniper do) and allies deal more damage to marked foes or something. Weapon is Rifle or Longbow.

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Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

Next elite spec give thief 1200 range most likely and party support because thats what thief lacks.
Skills could be marks that show over enemies head (like what Mordrem Guard Sniper do) and allies deal more damage to marked foes or something. Weapon is Rifle or Longbow.

Thief should have gotten support spec (sup druid) with HoT but devs themselves said on stream they don’t know what to do with the class so i wouldn’t get my hope up. Inb4 they nerf dp just to re-introduce it as some kind of gunslinger ninja.

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Posted by: AikijinX.6258

AikijinX.6258

What we need is our blasted 1500 range steal trait back (Long reach).

Like.. Why was it removed. At All.

And a good majority of you guys are talking about combining utility skills, and Sword #2’s to fulfill that 1200 range OP was requesting, but are not realizing you guys are primarily talking and advocating for WvW/PvP (Not so much PvP) What about PvE. For instance Jormag. Why should we be the only class that cant hit Jormag from the range everyone else hits him with, instead we need to go into the frostbite, and get a couple hits in from a closer range and then cleanse and repeat.(That’s if we don’t want to use the charrzooka gun, or what ever it’s called). There is other PvE content as well, where Thief falls short in range.

I’m no where near an expert in PvE, or even like it in general. But When you think about the proposal, you need to bring into account all game modes, and all types of scenarios.

Thieves either get nerfed, or forgotten in each balance.

Maguuma
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(edited by AikijinX.6258)

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Posted by: Sontaran.5904

Sontaran.5904

As the most mobile profession with access to stealth on demand, I think 1200 range would make us overpowered. Also, if it happened, it would then just lead to annoying nerfs later on that probably mess up our current builds.

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Posted by: AikijinX.6258

AikijinX.6258

As the most mobile profession with access to stealth on demand, I think 1200 range would make us overpowered. Also, if it happened, it would then just lead to annoying nerfs later on that probably mess up our current builds.

We’ve had 1200 Range before.

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Posted by: BlaqueFyre.5678

BlaqueFyre.5678

As the most mobile profession with access to stealth on demand, I think 1200 range would make us overpowered. Also, if it happened, it would then just lead to annoying nerfs later on that probably mess up our current builds.

Other classes have almost similar mobility and stealth access while also having 1200+ range, high mobility is no longer an excuse to not have access to something we had at launch.

They keep increasing other classes’ mobility and stealth access and not nerfing their Range on weapons, so either those decisions apply to all classes or they remove the offending classes access to those abilities that increase mobility and stealth access.

Again come up with an actual reason that Anet has already proven they don’t adhere to.

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

What we need is our blasted 1500 range steal trait back (Long reach).

Like.. Why was it removed. At All.

And a good majority of you guys are talking about combining utility skills, and Sword #2’s to fulfill that 1200 range OP was requesting, but are not realizing you guys are primarily talking and advocating for WvW/PvP (Not so much PvP) What about PvE. For instance Jormag. Why should we be the only class that cant hit Jormag from the range everyone else hits him with, instead we need to go into the frostbite, and get a couple hits in from a closer range and then cleanse and repeat.(That’s if we don’t want to use the charrzooka gun, or what ever it’s called). There is other PvE content as well, where Thief falls short in range.

I’m no where near an expert in PvE, or even like it in general. But When you think about the proposal, you need to bring into account all game modes, and all types of scenarios.

Thieves either get nerfed, or forgotten in each balance.

Long Reach was made baseline in 2015 ._.

It’s mostly a balance concern with damage + mobility + stealth. Even the druid with its fairly low base weapon damage is a kiting nightmare for most people given its mobility and stealth access. It’d be way too much on the thief without definitive drawbacks.

Frankly, attacking Jormag isn’t even supposed to really happen. P/P bursts also work well, particularly with Dash’s long-distance evade.

That was the whole point of my elite spec proposal, but oh well :\

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Posted by: AikijinX.6258

AikijinX.6258

What we need is our blasted 1500 range steal trait back (Long reach).

Like.. Why was it removed. At All.

And a good majority of you guys are talking about combining utility skills, and Sword #2’s to fulfill that 1200 range OP was requesting, but are not realizing you guys are primarily talking and advocating for WvW/PvP (Not so much PvP) What about PvE. For instance Jormag. Why should we be the only class that cant hit Jormag from the range everyone else hits him with, instead we need to go into the frostbite, and get a couple hits in from a closer range and then cleanse and repeat.(That’s if we don’t want to use the charrzooka gun, or what ever it’s called). There is other PvE content as well, where Thief falls short in range.

I’m no where near an expert in PvE, or even like it in general. But When you think about the proposal, you need to bring into account all game modes, and all types of scenarios.

Thieves either get nerfed, or forgotten in each balance.

Long Reach was made baseline in 2015 ._.

It’s mostly a balance concern with damage + mobility + stealth. Even the druid with its fairly low base weapon damage is a kiting nightmare for most people given its mobility and stealth access. It’d be way too much on the thief without definitive drawbacks.

Frankly, attacking Jormag isn’t even supposed to really happen. P/P bursts also work well, particularly with Dash’s long-distance evade.

That was the whole point of my elite spec proposal, but oh well :\

Long Reach was 1500 Range, not 1200. The 1200 is baseline.

And would you mind explaining more in depth how OP a mere 1200 range on Shortbow AA and P/P AA would be for the game, for all game types, not solely WvW, or 1v1 mindset. I’m totally fine with P/P #3 Unload not having 1200 range, I know that would be problematic.

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Posted by: Rukia.9860

Rukia.9860

If thief ever gets rifle it will probably be 1200, but no current attack needs 1200.

That would be boring though. Thief isn’t ranged ^_~ stabby stab

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Posted by: AikijinX.6258

AikijinX.6258

All of you guys are still speaking in terms of 1v1 scenarios.

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Posted by: naturesoul.3578

naturesoul.3578

I am ecstatic beyond words about thief getting rifle. Ok, so there are those of you that prefer the ninja type thief. congratulations you got staff last expansion in HoT. Now its our turn who prefer to play gunslinger/mercenary gun for hire ranged combat type thief. the fact rifle is typically 1200 range to me is a bonus, what i really want rifle means to me is all those that had there builds utterly destroyed to hell by removing Ricochet trait might have a chance to get it back. Also would love to see thief get more life stealing attacks with rifle but that is secondary to getting Ricochet trait…… if Anet does anything else with thief the biggest change i like to see is getting ricochet back.. would also love to see trait Hastened Replenishment back also. My thief was my main even was my main after HoT was announced, but at the last moment those of us that prefer to play p/p got a huge slap in the face by Anet. I had to put my Thief main out out pasture after that, i couldn’t find a build that was fun again with thief after that, and still have not found another class that could replace the old style thief. Sure I login every day to get rewards and do my dailies, but what they did to thief back then has drained the life out of my will to just play anymore. To me this is it if we get Rifle and Anet does not put ricochet trait back in I might be done with GW2 all together and find some game that doesn’t do to there community like Anet did essentially stabbing thief in the back. Or in the very least pray one of the other new elite specializations can replace my thief sized hole in my heart.

(edited by naturesoul.3578)

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Posted by: Fat Disgrace.4275

Fat Disgrace.4275

Play warrior/engie then lol. Having a rifle makes no sense at all. I can’t imagine something with so many ports being able to lets say they could do 8k burst @1200 range while also porting from 2400 range or more.

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Posted by: naturesoul.3578

naturesoul.3578

Engie and warrior are weak at ranged attacks /shrug. And there attacks are on CDs. I want the rifle thief to be ranged dps, maybe even add in a support role to them by giving them toggle on\off ( like engie kits) that change there ammo types , and then give them a trait to make those ammos apply to group( and work generically with all weapon types with trait not just rifle/pistol) as for ricochet trait be put back in the game through rifle thief its the least Anet can do to make it up to the ranged thief community they betrayed.

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

What we need is our blasted 1500 range steal trait back (Long reach).

Like.. Why was it removed. At All.

And a good majority of you guys are talking about combining utility skills, and Sword #2’s to fulfill that 1200 range OP was requesting, but are not realizing you guys are primarily talking and advocating for WvW/PvP (Not so much PvP) What about PvE. For instance Jormag. Why should we be the only class that cant hit Jormag from the range everyone else hits him with, instead we need to go into the frostbite, and get a couple hits in from a closer range and then cleanse and repeat.(That’s if we don’t want to use the charrzooka gun, or what ever it’s called). There is other PvE content as well, where Thief falls short in range.

I’m no where near an expert in PvE, or even like it in general. But When you think about the proposal, you need to bring into account all game modes, and all types of scenarios.

Thieves either get nerfed, or forgotten in each balance.

Long Reach was made baseline in 2015 ._.

It’s mostly a balance concern with damage + mobility + stealth. Even the druid with its fairly low base weapon damage is a kiting nightmare for most people given its mobility and stealth access. It’d be way too much on the thief without definitive drawbacks.

Frankly, attacking Jormag isn’t even supposed to really happen. P/P bursts also work well, particularly with Dash’s long-distance evade.

That was the whole point of my elite spec proposal, but oh well :\

Long Reach was 1500 Range, not 1200. The 1200 is baseline.

And would you mind explaining more in depth how OP a mere 1200 range on Shortbow AA and P/P AA would be for the game, for all game types, not solely WvW, or 1v1 mindset. I’m totally fine with P/P #3 Unload not having 1200 range, I know that would be problematic.

Forgot it was +600. For whatever reason I always saw it as +300.

I guess it was just unclear which weapon or how the ranged attacks would be implemented.

All of shortbow at one point was 1200 but the landspeed component on IArrow was deemed (and rightfully so at the time) overpowered. It’s one thing to give the thief 1200 range on the shortbow AA for the sake of tagging and a whole other beast to give it something that’s a viable 1200-range weapon without some major sacrifices.

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Posted by: Fat Disgrace.4275

Fat Disgrace.4275

Thief should not rely on ranged. I don’t understand why people why to spam the same skill over and over at ranged (unload) rifle will probably be the same thing

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

Thief should not rely on ranged. I don’t understand why people why to spam the same skill over and over at ranged (unload) rifle will probably be the same thing

And that’s the thing; there’s nothing inherently wrong with relying on range – many people like myself vastly prefer the playstyle – I’d have never rolled a thief if there was a proper mobile archer in the game.

What’s wrong is just giving something a distinct advantage when being at range and having it be difficult to lock down and it having melee potency such as the thief’s existing damage and defensive capabilities via dodges/Daredevil.

Ranged damage play requires a very high degree of risk when caught. There’s very little one can argue to promote a more potent ranged option for the thief in its current setup without making it overpowered.

Either major kit reworks are in order, massive nerfs need to happen (bad) or it needs to come in as an elite spec.

(edited by DeceiverX.8361)

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Posted by: Carighan.6758

Carighan.6758

yeah a thief can move 1200 range but it can’t shoot 1200 range. I’m referring to skills that do damage.

No you didn’t. Read your original post. But independent of that, isn’t Scorpion Wire 1200 range?

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Posted by: AikijinX.6258

AikijinX.6258

yeah a thief can move 1200 range but it can’t shoot 1200 range. I’m referring to skills that do damage.

No you didn’t. Read your original post. But independent of that, isn’t Scorpion Wire 1200 range?

Are you really trying to advocate for scorpion Wire? Or was that like trolling??
And we’re speaking on Range Weapon (shooting) ability. (Auto Attacks)

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