Guild Wars 2

I see this topic a lot and honestly i love my thief but they are in no way as OP as most claim. these are people who do not know how to play their own class thus they cry about other classes being OP. my poor little thief is sitting on 13.5k HP at lvl 80 full exotic zerk gear. I can run the LA living story but i have to be careful or expect to die…a lot. I also ran her through WvW and honestly NECROS were the one class i avoided. So all in all thief is not OP they are glass cannons. we hit hard but die quick.

Thief OP plz nurf.

Karolis.4261:

Thief OP plz nurf.

Pls nerf OP 13.5k hp is too much.

Alright so stale jokes aside. Yes, they’re very weak and they’re counterbalanced by a poorly designed stealth which gets them back on balance in PvP and nowhere near that level in PvE. It has the effects of pigeonholing them into very few builds.

Karolis.4261:

Thief OP plz nurf.

Pls nerf movement, running is to OP on thieves.

@MrForz
You are one of the few people in this forum, who understand, how the state of these class is.

Pls nerf camera, thieves should not be able to move the camera.

Corpse Flakes.5369:

Karolis.4261:

Thief OP plz nurf.

Pls nerf OP 13.5k hp is too much.

10.8k actually.

MrForz.1953:

Alright so stale jokes aside. Yes, they’re very weak and they’re counterbalanced by a poorly designed stealth which gets them back on balance in PvP and nowhere near that level in PvE. It has the effects of pigeonholing them into very few builds.

what he said.

one thing tho…. stealth is very bad in PVP…try not to use.

Fact: Thief stated to be OP
Theory: Thief was OP = everyone play thief
Action: Thief was nerfed to balance OPness
Outcome: More challenge in gameplay to be an OP thief
Idea: Warrior vs thief is usually in the warrior’s favor
Thoery 2: Players learn to play warriors to destroy the OP thieves
Conclusion: Warriors are the new OP

Why don’t we give everyone a taste of their own medicine, and go complain on other class threads on how OP they are?

Arikyali.5804:

Fact: Thief stated to be OP
Theory: Thief was OP = everyone play thief
Action: Thief was nerfed to balance OPness
Outcome: More challenge in gameplay to be an OP thief
Idea: Warrior vs thief is usually in the warrior’s favor
Thoery 2: Players learn to play warriors to destroy the OP thieves
Conclusion: Warriors are the new OP

Why don’t we give everyone a taste of their own medicine, and go complain on other class threads on how OP they are?

thieves need to sacrifice all defense to have OP dmg. wariors dont. hrm.

warriors can be in top condi cleanse/hp /tough/armor/dmg…. all at the same time.

So, how does it work?
I’m in balanced mode, I can kill gc thief in 3 sec so it’s fine.
But it’s not fine if thief can kill me in 3 sec too….

that kind of logic requires another bottle of whiskey :|

Tao.5096:

So, how does it work?
I’m in balanced mode, I can kill gc thief in 3 sec so it’s fine.
But it’s not fine if thief can kill me in 3 sec too….

that kind of logic requires another bottle of whiskey :|

its bc when a thief goes GC it gets capped at 66% crit dmg. and other skills are nerfed too. but there is nothing given to thieves on defense for this loss.

yes other classes get the same cap but they already have defenses higher bc they cant reach the lvl thieves can. and THAT lvl is now unattainable in spvp so it kinda nullifies the point in making thieves so weak on defensive end.

i totally agree w/ u

Am I the only one here that doesn’t want the thieves CDI to happen. By hour 3 I bet there will be 10-15 pages of “stealth op please nerf” -_-

Pretty sure the complaints general come from WvW players. Which are probably conditioned into mindless zerging, and lack general PvP skills (try playing a lot of sPvP then go into WvW….). When someone that has a spoonful of intelligence starts to duel them, they’re required to think, however fail to do so because of their conditioning. And so they come here to QQ. Their general argument will always surround or lead to “thieves OP because of stealth”, and stealth is OP because it’s STEALTH (like how can you not get that?). Some are a bit more creative and say we have too many evades, or even more creative they link youtube videos of PvE content showing that our damage is too high.

Thief OP? Yes, because the vast majority it seems can’t deal with them.
o.O

BobbyT.7192:

Am I the only one here that doesn’t want the thieves CDI to happen. By hour 3 I bet there will be 10-15 pages of “stealth op please nerf” -_-

3 Hours…? LOL
more like 20 seconds

In response to thread title, No.

Sticky a thread called “Thief is OP, anything related to such a statement goes in this thread”

After that all posts outside of said thread about thief being op or needing a nerf, gets a 48 hour forum ban.

…

Nevermind, then the thief forum wouldn’t move…

/cry

After reading only Thief section today, which is filled mostly with hate from people who play other classes I can tell that disease from other MMOs sure has infected whole world.
Few resisted tho.

3/4 of the people didn’t even touch thief probably.

They have noticed the increase of thieves and believe that this class is supposed to be a war fooder. Free kill, training dummy.
Despite the fact that Thief has the lowest HP pool, is the squishiest – yes, even Mesmer which is cloth armor based class is tougher.
And somehow, all I do read is that – thief is OP because it has this, and that, and maybe this and that.
Fine, it does have it. It does have stealth abilities it has some nice utility skills and has nice elite skills, and so what? That doesn’t change the fact that thief can’t rush head on like a tank and hammer down anything on it’s way.
In every game, an assassin/thief/rouge class is the squishiest, the easiest to kite and the most predictable from all other and it’s main damage comes from surprise and attacks from the back.

Nah, I’m lying, full bs, right, can’t be, look at Thief here.

Thief has awesome dps and skills with D/D – really?

Death Blossom – It’s a skill that is somehow….the most useless.
It’s a 3 hit based skill /- can avoid 2/3 of them w/o problem
- condition bleed /- can I laugh now?
- 3/4 Evade /- I’ll rather roll
- it costs 4 Initiative /- only 4? wooow

Dancing Dagger – for me it’s 50/50
- it does damage /- really? I hope it doesn’t hurt
- cripple effect 3sec /- that’s kind of useful if we want to catch someone….but isn’t heartseeker better?
- cost 4 initiative /- cut it by half and it’ll be worth an effort

Cloak and Dagger – good skill but it has a flaw which is called “I know what you’re doing”
- damage /- same or similar to heartseeker <50%, not bad
- 3% of vulnerability /- lovely
- cost 6 initiative /- skill itself is good so I understand such heavy cost >.>
- Stealth 4 sec /- and here it’s where stairs begin.

Stealth for 4 seconds seem to be plenty, cool, OP, blablabla.
But 90% of people forget that thief is a hugger – range of all dagger skills: 130, that’s almost kissing your opponent.
Experienced Opponent who will notice that you did CnD will quickly roll twice or aoe hammer you to floor, before you’ll manage to sneak on his back. Or will pop some defensive boons and will be ready for self heal.

What I did notice mostly in fights is that melee and ranged classes really don’t pay attention to what D/P Thief is doing.
Sometimes I believe they’re closing their eyes, smashing keyboard with crossed fingers and praying for luck that it’ll work.
Why no one is using auto attack to get rid of blind till Thief will stop eventually using it and then use major skills?
Why people playing other classes do stuff vice versa?

I don’t really understand this kind of behavior that people keep spam that Thief is OP, while in fact, it can be taken out with a bit of thinking and calculations.
CnD is predictable.
BP – if you’re a melee and keep standing in BP and complain that this skill is OP – reroll ranger please.

And looking at other classes – they really have no skills, no ways to defend themselves from Thieves?
Is it really that impossible to deal with thief as any other class?

And what’s so noob about D/P build?
Is it really so noob because warrior won’t hit a thief like a truck on a highway and knock down for 2 seconds straight away?
Or because we have to use autoattack first to remove blind and kite around so we won’t die?

So I guess it’s a noob way to use D/P to increase Thieves survivability which is very low anyway.

In the grand scale of things, Thieves are not OP.

However they have niches at which they excel more all other classes, which puts them into the balance spotlight.

Most notably this is:

• The roamers/DPS assist role in sPvP – Thieves are by far the best class for this and also seem to counter any other DPS roles trying to compete.
• Roaming in WvW – Stealth is just an incredibly useful tool in WvW type scenarios where it enables Thieves to do things most other classes can’t.

each class has pros and cons. it depend on who are playing it

BobbyT.7192:

Am I the only one here that doesn’t want the thieves CDI to happen. By hour 3 I bet there will be 10-15 pages of “stealth op please nerf” -_-

Agreed.

There’s a few things that need improvement like bringing the effectiveness Acro up to the level of SA, but that’s about it.

Selver.1307:

Sticky a thread called “Thief is OP, anything related to such a statement goes in this thread”

After that all posts outside of said thread about thief being op or needing a nerf, gets a 48 hour forum ban.

…

Nevermind, then the thief forum wouldn’t move…

/cry

I tried…
I created the nerf wish list… :/ Yet people still litter…

Maugetarr.6823:

BobbyT.7192:

Am I the only one here that doesn’t want the thieves CDI to happen. By hour 3 I bet there will be 10-15 pages of “stealth op please nerf” -_-

Agreed.

There’s a few things that need improvement like bringing the effectiveness Acro up to the level of SA, but that’s about it.

I for one like too see deadly arts and venoms improved a bit.

People always complain that the thief is ‘way too OP to compete with’, this is incredibly untrue… The thief, for maximum damage, has to sacrifice all of its defence whereas other classes do not suffer to an extent even comparable. The thief does not need a nerf, those who complain it is too overpowered are obviously not very decent competitors toward the thief, because if they were, they would realize that you can down them even when they are in stealth, as they are just that squishy.
Most experienced players find themselves on equal playing grounds with the thief, even damage wise. Other classes get base rate hp of about 15k, whereas the thief only 10k.
Those who also complain it does not take skill to be a thief (a half decent one), are also, quite wrong. Sure, you can mash 5-2 all day long and achieve things, but you will just die within 10 seconds. If you have some brain capability, you should realize that thief is not just about mashing buttons, it takes educated predictions, and thinking power.

LOL thank you all for a good laugh. And my title of “Thief OP?” was made due to the HUGE amount of post i am reading saying that we are OP. Personally i feel guardian and war need a little nerf mainly war. but hey when i manage to kill 3-5 ppl before dying then i know im enraging them and probably causing them to hop on here and rage. I do like reading some of your guys ideas. and got the laugh i needed for the day. Keep posting and lets see how many different views on thief we can collect.

i wouldnt call it op, but this is the only class that shuts down ele and mesmer’s viability in tpvp, or perhaps all GC builds. ill just leave it at that.

Put it this way…
If a psychiatric hospital got funding, bought new computers with that funding, and got people to play and they couldn’t deal with certain aspects of the game…. would those aspects be OP?

The thing that make thieves so powerful right now, is the fact that most have no issues ever with initiative thanks to the +33% boost last balance, most use d/p and blind spam like crazy, and disengaging combat is so easy you almost have to choose to actually die. Those are the 3 issues that need addressed. I will say that when those issues get dealt with, Anet needs to make survivability possible in other mechanics for thieves. As you’ve all stated, they are very vulnerable due to low HP pool and most condi cleanses are limited to 1.

Personally, I just don’t think the current mechanics for thieves contribute for good pvp. OP? Maybe not in the grand scheme of the game. In WvW, there is no doubt that a decent thief is a potent enemy in small to midsize fights. But I do know that thief population is rising quickly in wvw and d/p is the popular choice, due to easy of stealth and blind spam.

I need to stop reading these forums.

Azgarn.2145:

The thing that make thieves so powerful right now, is the fact that most have no issues ever with initiative thanks to the +33% boost last balance, most use d/p and blind spam like crazy, and disengaging combat is so easy you almost have to choose to actually die. Those are the 3 issues that need addressed. I will say that when those issues get dealt with, Anet needs to make survivability possible in other mechanics for thieves. As you’ve all stated, they are very vulnerable due to low HP pool and most condi cleanses are limited to 1.

Personally, I just don’t think the current mechanics for thieves contribute for good pvp. OP? Maybe not in the grand scheme of the game. In WvW, there is no doubt that a decent thief is a potent enemy in small to midsize fights. But I do know that thief population is rising quickly in wvw and d/p is the popular choice, due to easy of stealth and blind spam.

Initiative regen boost ??? You play Thief right ?

• Base Regen —-———————————- .750 => 1.00 (+33%)
  *Opportunity —-——————————— 1.0 ==> 0.20 (- 85%)
• CS VIII (Untraited, Traited)
  Signet of Malice (1)
  17 —-———————————- .118 => .059 (-50%)
  14 —-———————————- .143 => .071 (-50%)
  Infiltrator’s Signet,
  Signets of Agility
  and Shadows (3)
  30 —-———————————- .067 => .033 (-50%)
  24 —-———————————- .083 => .042 (-50%)
  Assassin’s Signet
  45 —-———————————- .044 => .022 (-50%)
  36 —-———————————- .056 => .028 (-50%)
• Acro IX
  2 every 10 sec —-——————- .200 => .100 (-50%)
  Acro XII
  3 every 9 seconds —-————— .333 —-—- .333 (NC0%)
• Trick V
  3 every (?) seconds
  0 35 —-—————————- .086 => .057 (-33%)
  5 33.25 —-———————— .090 => .060 (-33%)
  10 31.75 —-———————— .094 => .063 (-33%)
  15 30.5 —-————————- .098 => .066 (-33%)
  20 29.25 —-———————— .103 => .068 (-33%)
  25 28 —-—————————- .107 => .071 (-33%)
  30 27 —-—————————- .111 => .074 (-33%)
  w/XII 21.5 —-————————- .140 => .093 (-33%)
  Trickery XI
  4 on heal
  Signet of Malice (traited) — .286 --—— .286 (NC0%)
  Signet of Malice —-————- .235 —-—- .235 (NC0%)
  Withdraw —-————————- .250 —-—- .250 (NC0%)
  Hide in Shadows —-————— .133 —-—- .133 (NC0%)
  Infiltrator’s Signet (Passive)
  1 every 10 seconds —-————- .100 —-—- .100 (NC0%)
  Roll For Initiative
  6 every 60 seconds —-————- .100 —-—- .100 (NC0%)
  Roll For Initiative (Traited)
  6 every 48 seconds —-————- .125 —-—- .125 (NC0%)

and Infusion of shadow nerf

Evilek.5690:

Initiative regen boost ??? You play Thief right ?

• Base Regen —-———————————- .750 => 1.00 (+33%)
  *Opportunity —-——————————— 1.0 ==> 0.20 (- 85%)
• CS VIII (Untraited, Traited)
  Signet of Malice (1)
  17 —-———————————- .118 => .059 (-50%)
  14 —-———————————- .143 => .071 (-50%)
  Infiltrator’s Signet,
  Signets of Agility
  and Shadows (3)
  30 —-———————————- .067 => .033 (-50%)
  24 —-———————————- .083 => .042 (-50%)
  Assassin’s Signet
  45 —-———————————- .044 => .022 (-50%)
  36 —-———————————- .056 => .028 (-50%)
• Acro IX
  2 every 10 sec —-——————- .200 => .100 (-50%)
  Acro XII
  3 every 9 seconds —-————— .333 —-—- .333 (NC0%)
• Trick V
  3 every (?) seconds
  0 35 —-—————————- .086 => .057 (-33%)
  5 33.25 —-———————— .090 => .060 (-33%)
  10 31.75 —-———————— .094 => .063 (-33%)
  15 30.5 —-————————- .098 => .066 (-33%)
  20 29.25 —-———————— .103 => .068 (-33%)
  25 28 —-—————————- .107 => .071 (-33%)
  30 27 —-—————————- .111 => .074 (-33%)
  w/XII 21.5 —-————————- .140 => .093 (-33%)
  Trickery XI
  4 on heal
  Signet of Malice (traited) — .286 --—— .286 (NC0%)
  Signet of Malice —-————- .235 —-—- .235 (NC0%)
  Withdraw —-————————- .250 —-—- .250 (NC0%)
  Hide in Shadows —-————— .133 —-—- .133 (NC0%)
  Infiltrator’s Signet (Passive)
  1 every 10 seconds —-————- .100 —-—- .100 (NC0%)
  Roll For Initiative
  6 every 60 seconds —-————- .100 —-—- .100 (NC0%)
  Roll For Initiative (Traited)
  6 every 48 seconds —-————- .125 —-—- .125 (NC0%)

and Infusion of shadow nerf

All those changes don’t seem very bad.

I’m lazy and not going through the effort of doing the math, but per minute with the passive +33% you gain 20 extra initiative? Even you had traited for all the extra initiative on skill/utility use and stacked signets or another type of utility to capitalize the traits, I think 20 per minute + the current traits is still better. It’s just not as on demand, but I doubt its effective to use utilities solely for initiative gain anyways.

hit, stealth, hit, stealth, hit, stealth, hit, stealth, hit, stealth.
Meanwhile, opponent spending half his time just trying to re-acquire you as a target. More time spent trying to acquire you then laying down any hits.
Yup, OP.

" So all in all thief is not OP they are glass cannons. we hit hard but die quick.."

Where is Death when you can not see it?

Where is Death when you can not find it?

Where is Death when it already Over Power you?

Where is Death when it always Over Power you?

Where is Death when you are already Dead?

Where is Death when you are always Dead?

Can someone explain this to me….

Can anyone explain this to me…..

why this class is not OP?

why isn’t this Over Powerfulness class not a concern?

Burnfall.9573:

" So all in all thief is not OP they are glass cannons. we hit hard but die quick.."

Where is Death when you can not see it?

Where is Death when you can not find it?

Where is Death when it already Over Power you?

Where is Death when it always Over Power you?

Where is Death when you are already Dead?

Where is Death when you are always Dead?

Can someone explain this to me….

Can anyone explain this to me…..

why this class is not OP?

why isn’t this Over Powerfulness class not a concern?

Say Underpower Warrior ? Next joke comming ?

To bckerr.4798: TAB is your friend.

Thief has some broken/OP Aspects, and some underpowered aspects.

As a whole, I think the thief class is currently one of the more balanced classes in the game.