Guild Wars 2

It really makes me upset when a guy joint my group once , seeing two thieves and said"too many thieves, im out" and just quit. And when running COF, it seems that the thief is the least welcomed class.(no one ever complaint ‘too many engs or too many eles’). When you have a thief in the party, it means :
30% less dmg (quote from a war member of a party once), no team support boon, poor AOE dmg (90 sec cd dagger storm counts?) and a slight mistake = rez or dead.
To be fair, thief is a decent PVP class and does good looking dmg when dealing with single target. But I really hope that thief could be given a trait set or a skill combo options that situation like “too many thieves, im out” can never occur.
Here I quote form another post, which I found is totally true after tons of dungeon runs.

" Currently thief is like a bad joke for PvE. Yes, we do decent DPS if specced for it, and we can (if traited) do a few extra dodges. But we have zero survivability beside dodging, stealth is useless after last patch, our main heal (crit heals) is nerfed to uselessness.
I heard some dev saying that each class should have several good builds to choose from. Well, lets start by giving thief a single good build for PvE, because right now thief is 100% redundant for PvE (as in, no role to fullfill).
Its also very hard to motivate why any group, no matter the content, would pick a thief before another class. Maybe if they know they will die a lot, and need stealth-ressses. But then, everyone can do that with spy-kits.
Basically, thief feels like a warrior, but:
- less weapons and skills
- worse healing
- lower health
- lower armor
- less support
- no tanking ability"

Lol, PVE folks always make me laugh. “You cant be in our party coz ur a thief!1”. Yeah, like any content in this game is hard enough to not be done by an entire group of the same class.

It serious amuses me, that some people still have this vision from past games (aka, game where you have the holybullkittenrinity). It’s just sad, really.

Now, about the thief: there’s no way it’s not viable. It doesn’t have “worse healing” nor “less support”/“tanking ability”. It all depends on how you build it. Just to give some examples:

Worse Healing:
- For yourself
Signet of Malice + Healing Food + Black Powder (x/P build). You’ll barely take any damage from non bosses mobs and even if you do, you’ll heal all the way through it (malice OP!1)

For group:
Venom Shared Heal ooooor you can always combo Black Powder + Cluster Bomb for AoE invi (+Regeneration traited). Plus, you have acess to Shadow Refuge, which is neat to revive your partners.

-Less support
Caltrops (aoe cripple)/ Smoke Screen / Shadow Refuge / Blinding Powder/ Black Powder (strongest skill against non boss mobs, imo) + the already mentioned venom sharer build, for your venoms.

-No tanking ability
Just build for toughness/blinding and heal. You can easily be the “tanker” of your party.

I could go on and try to come with more examples, but i’m not in the mood to it. Anyway, I think you’ve got the idea…

tl;dr
People being ignorant when it comes to chose classes for PVE, like it matters, lol.

Did you know that the thief can spam Cluster Bomb to get 25 stacks of might to the entire party or heal the entire party with water field?

thieves have more utility than a warrior

Anet is trying to turn the thief into a weaker warrior, did you not hear about the stealth nerf?

ignorant people are amusing. btw ignorant doesn’t mean dumb, it just means you dont know any better

I am new at the thief class (L26) and to be honest, it is an awesome class, you have got great melee as ranged attacks. This isn´t some other mindless one-button slaughter house madness. You actually need to think ahead of your attacks/tactics, you need to set up the right traits and skills for your play style. I still don´t know what I am doing in every situation, but I still manage. Go search the internet for info of this class, and try using some of those tips/tricks to see how it works out for YOU!

Gosh, this thread is so refreshing. Usually it starts out with someone grousing, and then everyone grousing along with them, while in this thread, the first reply was a well thought out post detailing precisely how wrong the initial grouser was.

PvE in this game is a joke, end of story. If you complain about it being difficult, you’re doing it wrong. Simply take signet of malice and use some skills that do multihits. Yes, this means you won’t be able to run your 1-shot backstab build in PvE….what a shame.

Drop caltrops (even if you have no condition damage) because the multiple hits from caltrops will heal a ton. Spam cluster bomb. Autoattack on shortbow. Use death blossom. Stealth attack on mainhand pistol. Trait for applying regen with stealth. Trait for regen in stealth. Congratulations, you should never die again.

Thieves already have great damage.

Thieves don’t have the support utility of a mesmer or guardian. No one does, go grouse with rangers about that or something. You bring high damage and excellent survivability to a party, with a couple important niche utility tools like group stealthing and bask venom for instant interrupts through defiant.

tl;dr
No. Read it.

Pyroatheist.9031:

PvE in this game is a joke, end of story. If you complain about it being difficult, you’re doing it wrong. Simply take signet of malice and use some skills that do multihits. Yes, this means you won’t be able to run your 1-shot backstab build in PvE….what a shame.

still works, but here it actually takes practice to make it work. Easier to pull it off, harder to succeed while doing it. Granted sword is usually the better choice for pve until you start really know what you’re doing then you can do w.e you want and be a boss at it.

Drop caltrops (even if you have no condition damage) because the multiple hits from caltrops will heal a ton. Spam cluster bomb. Autoattack on shortbow. Use death blossom. Stealth attack on mainhand pistol. Trait for applying regen with stealth. Trait for regen in stealth. Congratulations, you should never die again.

I find condition damage thief to be very subpar in pve. Takes too long before the conditions start doing real damage and by the time the condition START doing dmg, the thing is now dead. If it isn’t dead in that time, then it’s either a vet (where conditions are decent at best) or a boss where you are fighting vs others for your condition stacks. Also, you shouldn’t be using death blossom that much since it’s an initiative dumpster. Properly using the auto attacks with your daggers or shadow steps on sword should give enough dodges or blinks to safety.

Pyroatheist.9031:

You bring high damage and excellent survivability to a party

Thieves? Excellent survivability to a party? Perhaps in P/V/T gear, 30 in Shadow Arts/Acrobatics and only to yourself, but then your damage will be pitiful low.

I feel more than welcome in parties, though my damage is lower than a warrior. I also have a lot more staying power, as well more utility. Hopefully AoE nerfs, bring players inline.

ppl still look down on a thief in pug party’s …
are our class is so lol in PVE or most thieves play really bad ???
or some are trolling….

Konrad.9587:

Pyroatheist.9031:

You bring high damage and excellent survivability to a party

Thieves? Excellent survivability to a party? Perhaps in P/V/T gear, 30 in Shadow Arts/Acrobatics and only to yourself, but then your damage will be pitiful low.

If you know how to play them well they can have both indeed. I always bring excellent dps with mine and in wipe situations am usually the last/only man standing. If you honestly believe your statement you are doing something horribly wrong or have found some terribad thieves to group with.

Because of the disparity between what people have witnessed in dungeons, it appears no one knows whether thieves are actually good in groups xD I can definitely vouch for them in terms of DPS and believe if GC does even better than a warrior; if not alongside a warrior. Yes they are renowned as being squishy but… that’s a pretty easy counter. With a decent health pool and something like 15 in Acro you may find this class has much more survivability than others in certain situations. Yes you may never have had to spec into extra vitality on other classes, but you do with this one…

Vilkata.9078:

If you know how to play them well they can have both indeed. I always bring excellent dps with mine and in wipe situations am usually the last/only man standing. If you honestly believe your statement you are doing something horribly wrong or have found some terribad thieves to group with.

Do you really want to say that the fact you are the last man standing adds excellent survivability to the party as a whole?

Konrad.9587:

Pyroatheist.9031:

You bring high damage and excellent survivability to a party

Thieves? Excellent survivability to a party? Perhaps in P/V/T gear, 30 in Shadow Arts/Acrobatics and only to yourself, but then your damage will be pitiful low.

What about perma aoe weakness from range and aoe blind every second in melee (on top of good damage of course)?

Konrad.9587:

Vilkata.9078:

If you know how to play them well they can have both indeed. I always bring excellent dps with mine and in wipe situations am usually the last/only man standing. If you honestly believe your statement you are doing something horribly wrong or have found some terribad thieves to group with.

Do you really want to say that the fact you are the last man standing adds excellent survivability to the party as a whole?

Never specified it’s for the party but stealth rezzes and group stealth for strategic setups do add a nice element on top of their substantial dps and staying power.

Konrad.9587:

Pyroatheist.9031:

You bring high damage and excellent survivability to a party

Thieves? Excellent survivability to a party? Perhaps in P/V/T gear, 30 in Shadow Arts/Acrobatics and only to yourself, but then your damage will be pitiful low.

your ignorance is hilarious, please keep up posts like this.

Thief is far better in pve that it is in pvp/wvw. Easily the 4th best class, can easily switch one of those warriors for a thief without it being an hindrance, far from it.

I don’t deny the fact that a thief can be a survivable class. But I do deny the statement that thieves bring excellent survivability to the whole party. Their support options are limited, and using some of those you mentioned (perma aoe weakness and PBAoE blind) will nerf damage done, due to the initiative system. And can you think of a “support” better than killing mobs faster?

Thieves class design sets their main role in PvE to damage dealing. They do have some fine tricks that may help the party, like Shadow Refugee or Smoke Screen, but if you talk about group support and group survivability, they are far behind guardians. And behind warriors in terms of damage, too.

I don’t find it a problem getting groups as a thief. You might be finding problems if your server has a bad culture but it’s more likely to be CoF. That place attracts all the most self interested players on the server who are willing to discard everyone and everything in order to get the most gold from their online time.

If you don’t like your build then go to the trainer, buy the book, and change it. Try out something entirely new that you think might be fun and give it a go. If it doesn’t work then change it again. A thief is not short of options.

Konrad.9587:

will nerf damage done, due to the initiative system.

And other classes cannot spam their most damaging ability. Btw, you don’t need to spam poison cloud, because the cloud in itself applies lotus poison every second (which means the mobs will be weakened for a lot longer than the poison cloud’s duration), also if you shoot trough the cloud, your poisonous attack applies lotus poison as well. My other weapons set is D/P, so when I’m placing blinding powder, I can also do a HS+backtab combo, meaning it’s not going to waste damage wise (on a sidenote I also have an on demand interrupt).

Konrad.9587:

but if you talk about group support and group survivability, they are far behind guardians.

Which other class isn’t? Every group wants a guardian, imho it’s a bad design that one class has the best of all group support/healing.

Konrad.9587:

And behind warriors in terms of damage, too.

So we are supposed to be as good as 2 classes combined?

Lol, TS you are so wrong…

Ye, I heard the same thing several times.
But I’m sure it’s the same type of people who say: “You guys have 0 AR on lvl 10 of fractals?! I quit!”

We have insane sustainability with Sarts or insane number of dodges with Acro.
In all specs we have:
- spammable AoE blind (#1 skill on trash)
- additional build-in evades
- 3-target-weakness
- easy access (or spammable, but short) daze
- bazilisk
- spammable boon remover
- easy access/short cd/spammable immobilize
- spammable/insane cripple
- aoe condition remover (cd or spammable on light field)
- aoe might (spam on fire field)
- aoe heal (spam on water field)
- anti-projectile wall
- long projectile reflecter
etc. etc.

No need to go further.
Thief neither have any problems with survivability nor utility in dungeons.
If you can solo a boss – is your class really that weak in the dungeon?

Also I had up to 3 thieves in a party including me – no problems ever.

Thieves are terrible in PVE. I hate them in FOTM.

1. WvW builds for thief are not the same as PVE. They are completely different.
2. Runes/Sigil choices for PVE differ from what you would want for WvW.
3. Anything sneezes on a thief and hes sitting at 20% HP. 1-2 hits and he’s dead. (kitten happens in pve, you are going to get hit no matter how good you are)
4. Even a well played thief built for pve is not going to offer as much to a group as a well played (insert any other class here).

But yea, let’s nerf thief stealth cause they are OP.

Cost.6917:

Also I had up to 3 thieves in a party including me – no problems ever.

Try making a group with 3 warriors 1 guard 1 mes or 2 mes 2 warr 1 guard and talk to me about your 3 thief group.

The above group setup will eat through bosses with the amazing dps it offers and not to mention amazing survivability.

Your 3 thief group may be able to kill stuff and complete dungeons, but at what cost?

Our point is that every other class can do the same as thief, but better.

Thieves are in general the weakest dungeon class. Yes, they bring some utilities as has been outlined earlier in this thread. That said, other classes are always better to bring to a party.

Let me break this down for you real quick.

- PvE content in Guild Wars 2 is made so that an 9 year old with downsyndrome can succesfully understand and complete the dungeon content.

- Becuase of this groups do not worry about tactics or strategy but rather ’How can we get this done faster, so i can alt tab and look at naked women?"

- Thieves CAN do more dmg than a warrior BUT only when in backstab and in FULL zerker gear, not valk gear, no points into acrobatics or shadow arts BUT full zerker gear with d/d and using sb on trash.

- The problem then is alot of thieves run needlessly tactical builds with pistoles “hey guys check out my perma blinds, we had a 0.00000001% of wiping without them but hey its fun!” or some idiot running a condition build etc…

- Basically the average warrior will do more damage than the average thief you find in a pug group, just because the norm for warriors is full zerker dps, whereas when you get a thief you have no idea what you are getting.

- The problem isnt that thiefs are bad in PvE, but that PvE caters to idiots and doing XxXTr1plExRATED420DEWTHEdeWFULLONZERKERDEEPSXxX.

- If you want to fix thiefs in PvE ask anet to make content that requires a brain to complete.

Dude a guy left CoF because of 2 thieves? Really? To put it politely, this guy probably needs to improve his gaming skills if he needs class support to finish CoF.

CoF path 1 and 2 requires little to no group support, you just go in and kill things basically…

Path 1

Kill the slaver, kite or if you want to melee dodge and DPS/bleed, straight forward. After that run past trash mobs to kill acolytes, Signet of Shadows + infiltrator arrow, thieves can do that as well as anyone.

Then kill acolytes and run into that little side hole cave to deaggro, which thieves can do better than anyone thanks to stealth and can in fact stealth the entire team under shadow refuge if needed. Then the fiery rock thing, again signet of shadows gives the speed boost which helps. Then the part where you stand in the fire thing to open the gate, thieves can basically stand there and stealth the entire time (which might not be ideal because then ur non stealthy allies get extra aggro), or just handle the trash mob if you want. Straight forward.

Last boss, kite with SB spamming poison and cluster bomb/ drop caltrops and bleed him if ur condi specced, or just go in there and burst the guy down if you’re burst specced.

Not a single part of this requires any class “support” from another party member (unless you count the coordination of killing the gate controller or running through the fiery rocks thing, but that’s not class support).

Path 2
You literally just kill things the entire way, the part with the assasins a thief is actually at an advantage with the 5 skill on SB you can kite the mob all day and then burst down the assasin when you find him. No support needed…

In FOTM there are actually certain dungeons that a thief is even desired, like the dredge one where you get the thief to stealth while churning the gear.

To address the thieves and PvE issue, yea if we could get some additional AoE’s, that would be fantastic. Can we get by now without the extra AoE’s? More or less. you have to know what you’re doing and why you’re doing it. Would it be nice if we had a couple more AoE’s? You bet.

Silver.4798:

To address the thieves and PvE issue, yea if we could get some additional AoE’s, that would be fantastic. Can we get by now without the extra AoE’s? More or less. you have to know what you’re doing and why you’re doing it. Would it be nice if we had a couple more AoE’s? You bet.

lol? can’t tell if this is sarcasm or not… if it isn’t i’ll just put this out there. Spammable 3-4k cluster bombs and bouncing arrows on aa.

if we are so OP in PvE, i want you to explain to me why ppl hate thieves so much in pug parties

Clusterbomb is only decent at most. The long travel time of the cluster combined with the slow shotspeed of the shortbow itself makes the weapon only decent at damage. You can try to offset that with hugging the enemy and shorten the distance your cluster has to travel, yet that puts you in additional danger espeacily when you will mainly use AoE skills agaisnt multiple targets. There are some exceptions of course but you will mainly try to stick on range to your enemy with a shortbow.

You could now add that the blast finisher is worth it, yet I have to disagree as you will not often have all your teammembers sticking together to you and with that your heal and buffs will be wasted. The blast finisher will also buff the area where it hits, means when all your teammembers range the target, then you will buff no one.
There is still the possibility to buff your allies and dont hit your target at all, yet you will lose alot of damage you could do due to the initiative system which lets me put doubts how effective that will be.

Yet in the best case scenario where your whole team sticks together and you can spam clusterbombs at your feet to apply group buffs and do AoE dmg, clusterbomb is very good… but how often do you have such a situation to begin with?

Also when its about damage, Warriors and Mesmers are theoretically both ahead of thieves.

DanH.5879:

if we are so OP in PvE, i want you to explain to me why ppl hate thieves so much in pug parties

We are not OP, but we are not a joke either.

Panacea.4927:

Clusterbomb is only decent at most. The long travel time of the cluster combined with the slow shotspeed of the shortbow itself makes the weapon only decent at damage. You can try to offset that with hugging the enemy and shorten the distance your cluster has to travel, yet that puts you in additional danger espeacily when you will mainly use AoE skills agaisnt multiple targets. There are some exceptions of course but you will mainly try to stick on range to your enemy with a shortbow.

You could now add that the blast finisher is worth it, yet I have to disagree as you will not often have all your teammembers sticking together to you and with that your heal and buffs will be wasted. The blast finisher will also buff the area where it hits, means when all your teammembers range the target, then you will buff no one.
There is still the possibility to buff your allies and dont hit your target at all, yet you will lose alot of damage you could do due to the initiative system which lets me put doubts how effective that will be.

edit
another big thing, go in melee range, somewhere a fire field will drop, give 25 might stacks to everyone, proceed to own the boss. If it’s still alive, rinse, repeat, cash the check. If you think a thief doing this = death, then I guess you don’t know that thief has a dodge button and heal skills too. We are also amazing at standing outside of the enemy’s attack range. We do this by not walking into spots we don’t deem safe. Other classes do this too but people tend to forget thieves can do it as well.

Yet in the best case scenario where your whole team sticks together and you can spam clusterbombs at your feet to apply group buffs and do AoE dmg, clusterbomb is very good… but how often do you have such a situation to begin with?

Also when its about damage, Warriors and Mesmers are theoretically both ahead of thieves.

so what you are saying is that you agree that thief has the highest potential to keep the team alive and super sayian if coordinated and played right. This is a class that takes more skill than most but if you can pull it off, they are amazing. Also when using sbow, play it like you would an ele for maximum dps. You could also lay down a dark field and spam the aoes there to maintain perma blindness stacks if you wanted to. Main point here is don’t knock it b4 you try it. I’m just happy that you are one of the few people who is seemingly willing to listen to feedback instead of acting like a sheep screaming “baaaaaa d thief baaaaaa d, kick baaaaaa d thief baaaaaa d”

if we are so OP in PvE, i want you to explain to me why ppl hate thieves so much in pug parties

cause people are ignorant to what the class can do. This isn’t their fault, it’s because they’ve seen people who are ignorant to thief try to play thief and fail. They just assume all thieves are like this, when in fact, a good thief can bring more to the team than any other class.

So funny, thieves are generally fine in PvE, utilized right they can bring just as much to a group as any class can.

The problem is people see a thief in their group and immediately jump to the conclusion there some sort of terrible zerker BS thief that doesn’t know how to dodge roll at all.

If a thief is dieing instantly in a stiff breeze then a) they are most likely specced wrong and b) they didn’t dodge the stiff breeze.

Do I occasionally get gibbed quickly? Yes but so does that guardian who’s basically done nothing all dungeon because he’s “omg the best support” so he feels he doesn’t actually have to do anything but auto attack because he cures conditions every 10 seconds (i’ve seen this happen..)

Fact is with all the different builds available you cannot just blanket the entire class with the good or bad sticker, there are and always will be terrible thieves that think the class is JUST about high burst damage and has nothing else just like you have GC warriors that will run in to 100blade and then die because he ran in solo thinking he’s a god.

I personally tend to hit the higher damage of the group (occasionally knocked from the top spot by pure GC builds) while also keeping my movement up so as not to die and supporting team with both agro management (stealthing squishies under attack enough to allow aggro to peel off.. usually onto myself), healing, defenses via blind, pulling and positioning, ccing, comboing etc etc.

@Randomfightfan if u can spam clusterbombs for 3-4k a pop in an AoE I would like to know ur secret. Im serious.

Silver.4798:

@Randomfightfan if u can spam clusterbombs for 3-4k a pop in an AoE I would like to know ur secret. Im serious.

Heres the secret, equip shortbow, press 2, click area filled with enemies, bang high damage aoe.

I hit for 2k clusters on my condition build thief… 3-4k should be easy for a power spec specially if they burst it at the right time for that little extra damage thats without any bleed damage added in (though cluster bomb bleeds even on a high condition spec is rather insignificant)

Silver.4798:

@Randomfightfan if u can spam clusterbombs for 3-4k a pop in an AoE I would like to know ur secret. Im serious.

it’s actually 3-4k + the bleeds. 3 stacks if I explode the bombs, 1 if I don’t. If you youtube me you’ll see my build and items in my vids and see me doing that dmg. Don’t have many vids up yet but the proof is there.

First vid in this one shows just how good thieves CAN be in a group that’s positioned correctly. Very easy and recreatable example too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDtXMDqPbQA

actually there you go. 2 vids with me killing normal dungeon mobs showing the dmg it can pull off. Looks like it’s 2.6k to 3.8k without any might stacks and higher when I do get might. This is also with a pvt bow instead of zerk. Not transmuting it cause I heard it won’t get upgraded when ascended weapons come out. Not worth the risk imo.

I didn’t mean to sound like I’m criticizing I’m legitimately curious, the only reason why I opted for a condition thief build is because I was never able to get a nice burst damage spike out of CB (whereas d/d condi thief has a lot more ways of dealing with mobs).

I’ll check out the videos, I more or less have all the gear I want out of my condi thief minus the ascended gear, so if I get bored of the build I might opt for the burst build if I can find ways to use burst more potently in mob situations.

In my condi spec I do about 4-500 up front damage, I have 1,450 condition damage but I havent calculated how much damage that averages out in total.

I wouldnt say it like that, as a thief relies alot on other classes to spam clusterbombs into certain combofields, yet other classes apply passiv random fields which overwrite the field you want to use actually.
The time it takes to stack up 25 might stacks combined with the init you use puts the usefullness in high doubts for me, except in very special situations.

PvE is just too kitten easy to bother with highly coordinated teams so passiv effects and utility are much more desireable as tools which require your whole team to work like a clockwork together…. its just too much of a hassle your team has to put up to use the clusterbomb spamming of a thief effective and the work is hardly worth the benefit.

You also mention blind over and over while blind is actually one of the weakest condition you can apply on a BOSS and trashmobs are not worth the sweat to bother with blinds to begin with. Even weakness is not that usefull against a boss as it is pretty much playing russian roulette with the boss as revolver.
I for one prefer aegis, which will always soak up the hit of a boss over blind and protection, which will always take 33% dmg of me (which equals about 1300 toughness iirc) over weakness which can reduce 50% damage, but only in 50% of all cases.

To sum it up:
Combos in combofields tend to be too weak and the conditions a thief applies are hardly worth it at bossfights.
Solution:
Buff combos in combofields so thieves can utilize it better and apply their utility with that and give thieves a few combofields which are combined with their class mechanic-steal.

Aegis = Stops 1 hit on you, generally not applyable that often

Blind = Stops 1 hit from the boss, reapplyable almost constantly.

Not sure how aegis is better…

>Blind = Stops 1 hit from the boss, reapplyable almost constantly.

hehehe boy are you in for a suprise

Panacea.4927:

Buff combos in combofields so thieves can utilize it better and apply their utility with that and give thieves a few combofields which are combined with their class mechanic-steal.

the combofield on steal would actually be a pretty cool idea. Probably need to trait for it but still very cool idea.

As it stands though, you can get consumables for many combo fields that you might want. You already have access to many fields though through weapons slots, utilities, and stolen items so I don’t know how much more you need. I would never get a consumable that has a fire field b/c pretty much every other class has a fire field for you to use. The only one I carry around is water field consumable that I use to give the team over 9000 healing!!!!!!!! And is used to its full effectiveness more than you’d think.

Zepidel.5349:

>Blind = Stops 1 hit from the boss, reapplyable almost constantly.

hehehe boy are you in for a suprise

Ok so some attacks aren’t forces to miss but unless something’s been added since I last used blind its still constantly applyable and still causes a missed attack,

Dasorine.1964:

Zepidel.5349:

>Blind = Stops 1 hit from the boss, reapplyable almost constantly.

hehehe boy are you in for a suprise

Ok so some attacks aren’t forces to miss but unless something’s been added since I last used blind its still constantly applyable and still causes a missed attack,

if this were true you’d see alot more….

$$$$$$$ LF 1 mes 1 thief (bring blinds) and 3 $$$$ZERKER WARRIORS$$$$$$ GEAR CHECK EXIOTIC ZERKER GEAR ONLY $$$$$$$$$ MONEY RUNS ALL DAY LONG$$$$$$

I’m glad that people still calculate groups on “stand there and auto attack”. Anyone that does not do max DPS with 1111111111, is useless DPS wise. Anyone who does not give me might/protection/haste is useless support wise. Because, you know, the fact that thieves can perma-poison (making any boss with a form of heal die faster), perma-weakness (making bosses not hit as hard), vuln-stack (better than warrior even counting ‘On My Mark’), on top of mass cripples and blinds is not considered support.

Luckily this game has plenty of players. I never had an issue getting a party, so anyone that doesn’t think thief has a lot to bring to the PvE table can go back and stick with the three classes they think are the only good ones. As stealth gets a few more nerfs and the crappy thieves go to other classes/quit and more play styles are explored, I expect that every run will learn to want a thief. Their flexibility to bring so much to the table beyond just the boons people close their minds around, and thieves actually bringing that instead of just stealth. We’ll see. Until then, I hope you get lucky enough to party with me some day and see their potential.

no you wouldn’t because when it comes down to it you don’t need it just like you don’t need aegis, protection or anything really you can run with full glass cannons and use no defensive skills and still complete dungeons.

Zepidel.5349:

Dasorine.1964:

Zepidel.5349:

>Blind = Stops 1 hit from the boss, reapplyable almost constantly.

hehehe boy are you in for a suprise

Ok so some attacks aren’t forces to miss but unless something’s been added since I last used blind its still constantly applyable and still causes a missed attack,

if this were true you’d see alot more….

$$$$$$$ LF 1 mes 1 thief (bring blinds) and 3 $$$$ZERKER WARRIORS$$$$$$ GEAR CHECK EXIOTIC ZERKER GEAR ONLY $$$$$$$$$ MONEY RUNS ALL DAY LONG$$$$$$

You thought thieves were useless (and might still do) until you saw some of the info in this thread. The people with the posts that don’t say need 1 thief are the kind of people who don’t know any better

Drawing Guy.3701:

I’m glad that people still calculate groups on “stand there and auto attack”. Anyone that does not do max DPS with 1111111111, is useless DPS wise. Anyone who does not give me might/protection/haste is useless support wise. Because, you know, the fact that thieves can perma-poison (making any boss with a form of heal die faster), perma-weakness (making bosses not hit as hard), vuln-stack (better than warrior even counting ‘On My Mark’), on top of mass cripples and blinds is not considered support.

Luckily this game has plenty of players. I never had an issue getting a party, so anyone that doesn’t think thief has a lot to bring to the PvE table can go back and stick with the three classes they think are the only good ones. As stealth gets a few more nerfs and the crappy thieves go to other classes/quit and more play styles are explored, I expect that every run will learn to want a thief. Their flexibility to bring so much to the table beyond just the boons people close their minds around, and thieves actually bringing that instead of just stealth. We’ll see. Until then, I hope you get lucky enough to party with me some day and see their potential.

I dont think you understand the mindset. Have you EVER gone into a dungeon with ANY group composistion (5 engineers w/e) and thought to yourself “gee i dont know if we can beat this it might be hard!” no you dont, no one does they say “kitten this is going to take forever with this comp”. Its not about strategy or knowing fight mechanics, its about doing the most damage in the shortest amount of time to get kitten done faster to make it that much less of a grind.

Sometimes it seems like the ones that are the most critical/negative about a given profession are the practitioners of said profession. I haven’t been browsing the Thief forums for long, but Thieves having problems in PvE/dungeons, true or not, seems to be a common utterance around here, which is funny because Rangers, Engies, and Necros are constantly QQing about pretty much the same things, i.e. having people bail because there are too many of their profession, getting kicked from parties, etc. It kind of paints the picture that unless we’re playing Warriors, Guardians, or Mesmers, PvE/dungeons are pretty much not for us. And now I’m wondering if even those professions are complaining about similar things, i.e. “Aside from speed-running CoF, we have no purpose in life!” O_O

If you want to compare notes with Rangers on virtually the same subject:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Feeling-useless-as-a-Ranger/first

Consumables are more a crutch for missiong tools a character has… or doesnt has. The goal of Anet was probatly to promote more groupplay and more coopoerative play with the combofields, yet hardly anyone uses them as the gain of it just hardly isnt worth it.
Thieves have alot of combofinisher and access to all of them (hence I often see thieves as wrenches, tools to utilize other ones utility stronger), but the weakness of combofinisher defeats the purpose as thieves as enhancement for other ones utility skills.

Either buffing combofinishers to be VERY strong, or giving thieves more native combofields would help to give thieves better utility for their team.
Also stolen combofields are pretty random. Sometimes you get goo, sometimes the healing tree, sometimes only crap and with that it isnt reliable.

I already made a post about steal in the “Thief QQ thread”. The base idea was to give several possible steals of which you can slot 2-3 only. Like steal a heal skill, steal a CC, steal a dmg skill, …. with that you can use your steal more tactical and even use it for a little heal burst when you steal a waterfield. Further traits in trickery/acrobat/shadowarts/… could buff the duration and effect of certain steals and with that let the class feel more like a thief and not like a assassin with a serious case of cleptomania.