Guild Wars 2

Video: https://vimeo.com/52977465

Additional Information: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/12ruhs/thief_proof_of_concept_permanent_stealth/

wow. another reason to hate the kitten out of the thief class

“Hey guys, maybe there’s a thief around that smoke field that keeps reappearing.”

The only thing that’s broken here is that thieves can contest capture points while invisible. They can’t do that in structured PvP for conquest.

Yes proof of concept that leap finisher in smoke field gives you stealth. Good job, we knew that already. Aside from that I’m not seeing anything interesting. That thief has so little initiative left trough the 5min of mindless jumping that she’s pretty much useless.

[Edit:]
Quote from the reddit post: “This team knew has faced me before, and figured out how to catch me (spread out, follow my smoke trail, lay traps to locate me, and try to trick me into hitting them with a Heartseeker).”

I’d rather call this tread “Proof of concept that if people know what they’re doing, even something that seems overpowered is not really that hard to kill”.

In order to stay in stealth permanently, like you said, is initiative demanding.

You have to use these to do what you do:
Shadow’s Rejuvenation
Infusion of Shadow
Meld with Shadows
Last Refuge
Quick Recovery
Infiltrators Signet

and after all this you’re pretty much useless. ANet just needs to fix WvW capture points so that stealth doesn’t contest points…

Trickyg.8752:

and after all this you’re pretty much useless.

Backstabs aren’t useless.

Iohanna.4863:

Trickyg.8752:

and after all this you’re pretty much useless.

Backstabs aren’t useless.

When you’re traited like what you need for this? They pretty much are.

Iohanna.4863:

Trickyg.8752:

and after all this you’re pretty much useless.

Backstabs aren’t useless.

Look at the build as well. No Hidden Killer, and all the traits are used for stealth increased duration, hp regeneration in stealth, and condition removal in stealth. This is not a BS build, this is a survivability build. BS with those traits and 49% (at best) crit chance is a prayer. Even on a crit I’d be surprised if it hits for more than 4k.

Piriel.5197:

Iohanna.4863:

Trickyg.8752:

and after all this you’re pretty much useless.

Backstabs aren’t useless.

Look at the build as well. No Hidden Killer, and all the traits are used for stealth increased duration, hp regeneration in stealth, and condition removal in stealth. This is not a BS build, this is a survivability build. BS with those traits and 49% (at best) crit chance is a prayer. Even on a crit I’d be surprised if it hits for more than 4k.

There is a fair amount of points in the precision tree, but it’s the full Berserker gear + Runes of Rage that really make this a backstab build.

With 58% crit-rate, Hidden Killer is somewhat of a waste.

Trickyg.8752:

The only thing that’s broken here is that thieves can contest capture points while invisible. They can’t do that in structured PvP for conquest.

So true. There’s no reason a single thief should be able to keep a zerg from capping a point for over a minute. Other that, I don’t see what’s wrong with permastealth.

Gamblit.5041:

Piriel.5197:

Trickyg.8752:

ANet just needs to fix WvW capture points so that stealth doesn’t contest points…

That, yes ^

And then players will mass stealth other players to prevent them for getting rewards from capturing points or contesting the existing ones.
Great way to upset alote of players.

Then maybe stealth shouldn’t be allowed at all in capture zones, idk.

Yup make that doesn’t happen when invisible.

We should make it where Necromancers can’t death shroud in capture zones.
We should make it where Rangers can’t use pets in capture zones.
We should make it where Warriors can’t switch weapons in capture zones.
We should make it where Elementalists can’t switch attunements in capture zones.
We should make it where Mesmers can’t use mantras in capture zones.
We should make it where Guardians virtues don’t work and can’t be activated in capture zones.
We should make it where Engineers can’t use kits in capture zones.

Please think about what you say, this spec is only good for this one thing, it is almost useless on a 1v1 fight because you would either have no initiative, and as soon as your leap finisher hit a target you would get revealed, so you cannot backstab using it.

Daecollo.9578:

Please think about what you say, this spec is only good for this one thing, it is almost useless on a 1v1 fight because you would either have no initiative, and as soon as your leap finisher hit a target you would get revealed, so you cannot backstab using it.

Please read the additional information on the Reddit thread. This spec is primarily for sPvP (1v1, 2v2); the leap finisher applies damage before stealth. So no, you don’t get revealed and yes, you can spam Blinds and Backstabs all day with this spec.

It’s initiative demanding yes, but it’s nothing that cannot be conquered with good initiative management.

Iohanna.4863:

Daecollo.9578:

Please think about what you say, this spec is only good for this one thing, it is almost useless on a 1v1 fight because you would either have no initiative, and as soon as your leap finisher hit a target you would get revealed, so you cannot backstab using it.

Please read the additional information on the Reddit thread. This spec is primarily for sPvP (1v1, 2v2); the leap finisher applies damage before stealth. So no, you don’t get revealed and yes, you can spam Blinds and Backstabs all day with this spec.

It’s initiative demanding yes, but it’s nothing that cannot be conquered with good initiative management.

Yeah, in the video hes going after people and attacking them. (sarcasm.)

No, because if he did, he would get revealed and die, you CANNOT kill and down anyone with a build like this, your sacrificing 25 points in power or 30 points in precision.

I would like to see what happend if he attacked people instea—-oh he did, and then he died.

Did you know that if someone hits you it forces you to target them, so if you use a leap finisher after that it would leap and hit them, REVEALING you (like it did in the video.)

Iohanna.4863:

Daecollo.9578:

Please think about what you say, this spec is only good for this one thing, it is almost useless on a 1v1 fight because you would either have no initiative, and as soon as your leap finisher hit a target you would get revealed, so you cannot backstab using it.

Please read the additional information on the Reddit thread. This spec is primarily for sPvP (1v1, 2v2); the leap finisher applies damage before stealth. So no, you don’t get revealed and yes, you can spam Blinds and Backstabs all day with this spec.

It’s initiative demanding yes, but it’s nothing that cannot be conquered with good initiative management.

The heartseeker doesn’t give revealed debuff, but the backstab absolutely does if you use it.

I use a somewhat similar although also markedly different build (mine’s better.) If you’re trying to kill someone then yes, backstab away and you still have enough stealth going on to be very effective. If there are several people intent on killing you, then using backstab is absolutely the wrong thing to do because of the revealed debuff – it will get you caught and killed. Instead, let the stealth durations run out naturally without attacking and just focus on running away or evading and hope you don’t run out of initiative at a bad time.

Daecollo.9578:

We should make it where Necromancers can’t death shroud in capture zones.
We should make it where Rangers can’t use pets in capture zones.
We should make it where Warriors can’t switch weapons in capture zones.
We should make it where Elementalists can’t switch attunements in capture zones.
We should make it where Mesmers can’t use mantras in capture zones.
We should make it where Guardians virtues don’t work and can’t be activated in capture zones.
We should make it where Engineers can’t use kits in capture zones.

Please think about what you say, this spec is only good for this one thing, it is almost useless on a 1v1 fight because you would either have no initiative, and as soon as your leap finisher hit a target you would get revealed, so you cannot backstab using it.

I missed where any of those make you invisible while contesting.

Actually, if you had bothered to read the thread the guy posted:

“Actually, this build will slaughter most players in 1v1 and 1v2/2v2.

I’ve said this elsewhere, but this is a sPvP backstab build which not only constantly enters stealth, but also spams blinds, condition removal and healing. That’s very resilient for a glass-cannon.

I’m not as bursty as pure precision + power Thieves however, so I can’t win against a full survival build. But such builds are easy to run away from.

So it’s not really all that meta."

“This build is actually a Backstab build. It deals excellent single-target damage, although it’s not a 1-hit-wonder and can still be out-healed by more sturdy opponents. It allows me to stalk enemy zergs and take out the glass cannons or perform ninja-stomps.

I can also say that I can confidently (EDIT: barring any 1-hit-wonders) win/draw any “duel” or “1v1” situation. Even if I can’t kill my opponent, I can flee with +25% movement speed, swiftness upon dodging, and Heartseekers for extra distance."

So there we go….perma stealth and can still hit hard…

Daecollo.9578:

Iohanna.4863:

Daecollo.9578:

Please think about what you say, this spec is only good for this one thing, it is almost useless on a 1v1 fight because you would either have no initiative, and as soon as your leap finisher hit a target you would get revealed, so you cannot backstab using it.

Please read the additional information on the Reddit thread. This spec is primarily for sPvP (1v1, 2v2); the leap finisher applies damage before stealth. So no, you don’t get revealed and yes, you can spam Blinds and Backstabs all day with this spec.

It’s initiative demanding yes, but it’s nothing that cannot be conquered with good initiative management.

Yeah, in the video hes going after people and attacking them. (sarcasm.)

No, because if he did, he would get revealed and die, you CANNOT kill and down anyone with a build like this, your sacrificing 25 points in power or 30 points in precision.

I would like to see what happend if he attacked people instea—-oh he did, and then he died.

Did you know that if someone hits you it forces you to target them, so if you use a leap finisher after that it would leap and hit them, REVEALING you (like it did in the video.)

The heartseeker itself that grants stealth via leap finisher does not give revealed nor break stealth, even if it does damage. The next attack from stealth does, and backstab is hardcoded to give revealed even if it lands after stealth “ends.”

phaeris.7604:

Actually, if you had bothered to read the thread the guy posted:

“Actually, this build will slaughter most players in 1v1 and 1v2/2v2.

I’ve said this elsewhere, but this is a sPvP backstab build which not only constantly enters stealth, but also spams blinds, condition removal and healing. That’s very resilient for a glass-cannon.

I’m not as bursty as pure precision + power Thieves however, so I can’t win against a full survival build. But such builds are easy to run away from.

So it’s not really all that meta."

“This build is actually a Backstab build. It deals excellent single-target damage, although it’s not a 1-hit-wonder and can still be out-healed by more sturdy opponents. It allows me to stalk enemy zergs and take out the glass cannons or perform ninja-stomps.

I can also say that I can confidently (EDIT: barring any 1-hit-wonders) win/draw any “duel” or “1v1” situation. Even if I can’t kill my opponent, I can flee with +25% movement speed, swiftness upon dodging, and Heartseekers for extra distance."

So there we go….perma stealth and can still hit hard…

Please post a video with this spec killing people 1v2, 1v1.

I really want to see how it fares against a “hammer warrior” especially.

And who in hell cares about 1v1 build in WvW? Can 1 person take a keep or hold it in this game? Nope. Oh no you might get ganked while solo around. pveing. I personally think killing 1 person every 45secs is not a very good use of spot in WvW. My build I rarely solo kill people, but I sure can cause alot of confusion and break a zerg up so rest of people on my server in area can push them back. And when 15-20 of the enemy chases me away from a keep they are sieging I consider that a big win. 1 person draws a large group away from siege for 5mins if more effective than kill 1 person who will get rezed back up in 10secs.

“C&D is much cheaper in terms of initiative cost. You can’t really stack stealth constantly like you can with Black Powder + Heartseeker. But if you have good timing, you wouldn’t even show up for 1/10th of a second between C&Ds.

Of course, you still need a target…"

As i’ve pointed out before.

Why would I post a video? Honestly, i’m failing to see why you think it’s so hard to kill people like this.

Hammer warrior? Wow, those are threats are they? That’s news to me.

This only works on supply camps, tower points are too closed in it would never work up there. And I am sure that this stealth contest will be fixed soon there is a lot of complaining about it.

Piriel.5197:

I’d rather call this tread “Proof of concept that if people know what they’re doing, even something that seems overpowered is not really that hard to kill”.

Wrong! Completely wrong. It’s “overpowered” in the sense that it would take such a large number of people to counter it, and even then it takes a bit of time. Of course you might think “so what?” But a single person shouldn’t have that much stalling power against 20~50+
edit: Just to make it clear, its the fact that so many people have to cooperate to fix one person that makes it imbalanced.
Also, she’s not useless because she’s stopping the point capture, thus very much having a use.
Of course, as others mentioned, an easy fix would be for stealthed players not to count for adding to/stopping the control, just like in spvp. Outside this one purpose, I don’t think this will be too much of a problem.

Navzar.2938:

Of course, as others mentioned, an easy fix would be for stealthed players not to count for adding to/stopping the control, just like in spvp. Outside this one purpose, I don’t think this will be too much of a problem.

You’re probably the 3rd or 4th person in this thread to mention this, but I’m going to quote it for effect. There’s nothing wrong with permastealth, it leaves the thief functionally useless for most purposes. The only actual useful role it holds is solely due to a poor decision (or mistake) on ANet’s part to allow a single stealthed person to stop supply camp capture.

Gamblit.5041:

Jefzor.7145:

Gamblit.5041:

Piriel.5197:

Trickyg.8752:

ANet just needs to fix WvW capture points so that stealth doesn’t contest points…

That, yes ^

And then players will mass stealth other players to prevent them for getting rewards from capturing points or contesting the existing ones.
Great way to upset alote of players.

Then maybe stealth shouldn’t be allowed at all in capture zones, idk.

I would suggest, taking another approach.

Majority rules:
As long as attackers more then defenders then the slider moves towards attackers capture.

Then it won’t matter if there’s one thief sneaking around or 10 of them. The number of defenders present in the zone can reduce the speed of the slider but it won’t halt the progress.

That could work, sounds more logical than the current system. Not sure what other implications it’d have, tho.

basically forget about drafting new ideas for the capture points

just stick the code from sPvP into WvW as you cant stealth cap in sPvP but for some very odd reason can in WvW

It must have been overlooked by ANET…. That is all

Keep it simple everyone

This thief forum has a great nak for side tracking and sub arguments and drifting off topic

Other than that, the perm steath build thief is useless. Seriously

Baz.7305:

Wow…more cry babies. This is a good tactic to hold off zergs if you dont have enough people in wvw. They could easily go around AOEing the place and find the thief. Why dont they just get rid of the thief class completley? Stop throwing fits and play the game. My main isnt a thief and I am tired of everyone complaining. Think trade offs….there are always some to every class.

Its also a very strong tactic when you have the same amount of people, or when you have more people. Yes they could go around aoeing everything, but since this trick can be done on a tank thief, it would take quite a number of hits, thus quite a number of people. Just because 20 people can deal with it doesn’t mean its balanced. That thief can stop far more people than a single person should be able to.
Besides, theres a good chance a zerg isn’t going to be able to respond very quickly, as we already know from the CnD stallers.
Why should a single person be able to stall so many? Besides, I doubt this is intended, or they wouldn’t have fixed it for spvp.

All this talk about permenant invisibility on thieves? I have an 80 thief and I am lucky to stay invisiable for a few seconds, then shortly after a long cooldown before I can be invisable again. You sure people aren’t confusing the WoW Rogue with the constant stealth. I want my thief to be constantly invisible too.

I also have a gripe about Thieves. How come I can make a damage dealing thief, but I will fold right in half with the swing of a two handed weapon? Sure I can stat in Toughness, but that will leave me less stats for power and crit = a Thief that does average damage and is squishy as an elementalist. Hell My Mesmer can even take a hit way better then my Thief. WTF!

If only standing in the black powder was an option. Posting this will only strengenth the QQ from all the baddies so thanks. I will agree though contesting points in stealth just like in spvp, should not be allowed. Btw I’ve been using this build for months people are so slow on trying anything themselves..

It is also magnificent for pve, permablind owns, only fast attackers will manage to hit you, combine with backstabs you can take on full groups while focusing on 1 target. I sincerely hope this doesn’t get nerfed as its a certain kind of playstyle that I love.

The only thing that really needs fixing is the contest in stealth crap. Being perma stealthed otherwise is basically useless other than scouting and such, which should totally be acceptable for a thief.

“Oh hey look there are some smoke and shadow refuge appearing from no where, it’s must be nothing”

Seriously if I was there and seeing smoke and shadow refuge out of no where I will be attacking that area with AOE or at least spamming skill, these people in the video are not even noticing this thing.

Didn’t look so permanent to me. You came out of stealth like 3 times and had to use hide in shadows to save yourself.

This is worthless in a 1v1, but good from hiding from zergs in zerg fights.

You also can’t be around an enemy or HS finisher will go for the nearest target.

Why does she keep using Signet of Shadow for no reason? ô_õ
And btw, Blinding Powder then swap to SB and use Cluster Bomb is better,since you dont need to keep moving and it’s an AoE stealth (hide your group)