Guild Wars 2

Rifle Thief

Full Auto:
Shoot repeatedly at your foe. The farther away they are, the more damage you deal.
Damage < 300 (3x): 201
Damage 300-600 (3x): 249
Damage 600-900 (3x): 300
Damage > 900 (3x): 348
Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile (20%)
Range: 1,200

(Stealthed.) Shadowy Retreat.
Teleport away from your target, gaining swiftness.
Swiftness: 15 s
___________
(3 Initiative.) Crippling Blast:
Cripple your foe with a Crippling Blast.
Damage: 368
Cripple: 2 s
Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile
Range: 1,200
___________
(4 Initiative.) Shadow Clone:
Stealth, summoning a clone that casts Full Auto.
Stealth: 3s.
___________
(5 Initiative.) Rifle Butt:
Push your foe back with your rifle butt.
Damage: 386
Knockback: 450
Range: 130
___________
(6 Initiative.) Camouflage:
Hide in Shadows.
Immobilize: 24h (Self.)
Camouflage: 24 h
Frenzy: 24h (You take 50% more damage.)
Revealed if Damaged, or Enemy comes within 180 Meters of you.

(12-15 Initiative, can only be used while Camouflaged.) Sniper Shot:
(5 second cast, ends cast if person is too close.)
Burn all your initiative, unleashing a blast that pierces and destroys your foes, does more damage to moving targets.
Damage per Initiative: 121. (If target is not moving.)
Damage per Initiative: 202. (If target is moving.)
Damage per Initiative: 303. (If target is downed.)
Revealed: 10s.
Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile
Range: 500-2,500.

This creates a Sniper, kind of like the ones from Caudecus’s Manor. (would suck if it was reflected back though..)

Give me the slingshot from the Wintersday mini-game, I was loving to play with that thing

I think your idea could use some tweaks here and there, being wary not to overlap too much with warrior rifle, but your sniper skill intrigues me.

Specifically the fact that it uses an unspecified amount of initiative, up to your maximum, and deals more damage based on how much you used. As far as I know, such an idea hasn’t been proposed before, and I think it puts a unique and fun twist to the initiative mechanic. I like this idea because it gives the player more choice, and creates another way to differentiate between better or worse thieves based on how well they know their own damage output, and how well they manage their initiative.

I like the ideas here, although I have always been wary about the spamming potential of initiative-based skills like Crippling Blast. At just 3 initiative, you could keep a target snared for literally 100% uptime, and considering the relatively high damage you have attached to the skill (in comparison to the autoattack, anyway), it may be a problem.

Auesis.7301:

I like the ideas here, although I have always been wary about the spamming potential of initiative-based skills like Crippling Blast. At just 3 initiative, you could keep a target snared for literally 100% uptime, and considering the relatively high damage you have attached to the skill (in comparison to the autoattack, anyway), it may be a problem.

Even with the amount of condition removal we have in this game?

Eh, your right though, I will change it.

I also added that while in camo, you can’t move.

2 seconds is enough, and it adds up if you spam it.

Shadow Clone would also be a fun ability, but it would probably be powerful, because you could wear somebody down with just Shadow Clone, it can be abusive when combined with stealth, since your clone’s attacks wouldn’t reveal you.

I like everything so far but the shadow clone skill. Aren’t clone-like things for the mesmer profession in the game? Perhaps make it into one of the thief npc thingies like thieves guild? A new type of NPC would have to be created for the skill ofcourse, but I think that would be more like the thief’s other skills.

Also having the Rifle thief, ambus thief and 2 from thieves guild….rrrrr :P

Undeadkemea.4865:

I like everything so far but the shadow clone skill. Aren’t clone-like things for the mesmer profession in the game? Perhaps make it into one of the thief npc thingies like thieves guild? A new type of NPC would have to be created for the skill ofcourse, but I think that would be more like the thief’s other skills.

Also having the Rifle thief, ambus thief and 2 from thieves guild….rrrrr :P

Well, Mesmers and Thieves LORE wise use the same type of magic, thieves are just more shadow magic, while mesmers are mind magic.

But this is why Mesmers can stealth and teleport, they have denial magic, but shadow magic is also denial magic.

So, a thief can create clones using denial magic, but they wouldn’t be as good as mesmer clones, as mesmer stealth isn’t as good as thieves stealth.

Daecollo.9578:

Well, Mesmers and Thieves LORE wise use the same type of magic, thieves are just more shadow magic, while mesmers are mind magic.

But this is why Mesmers can stealth and teleport, they have denial magic, but shadow magic is also denial magic.

So, a thief can create clones using denial magic, but they wouldn’t be as good as mesmer clones, as mesmer stealth isn’t as good as thieves stealth.

All that plus where does the thief get the thiefs guild henchmen? He pulls them right our of his…you know?
Won’t they cound as some kind of clones too? =)

I don’t see them as clones but as people that aid you :P Maybe I didn’t read everything there is to thieves and that the thieves guild is a clone/phantasm thing, but I really thought they were real people you summoned.
That’s why I think the clone name isn’t all that fitting

Undeadkemea.4865:

I don’t see them as clones but as people that aid you :P Maybe I didn’t read everything there is to thieves and that the thieves guild is a clone/phantasm thing, but I really thought they were real people you summoned.
That’s why I think the clone name isn’t all that fitting

Thieves Guild and Shadow Trap is kind of more a game thing then a lore thing.

I haven’t done any research at all so I can’t tell you otherwise Cheers then I like the skills though

I’d also like to add that I’d only be in favour of this if when using Camouflage, your character prones on the ground and lays the rifle out in front of them. That would be sweet.

Auesis.7301:

I’d also like to add that I’d only be in favour of this if when using Camouflage, your character prones on the ground and lays the rifle out in front of them. That would be sweet.

Well, that would be cool as heck, nice idea, it does root you!

I’m sorry but we’re not mesmers. Their clones are cool and fancy, but it’s a Mesmer thing, not ours.

Our Thieves are like the Charr summon: buddies from our gang that we can call for help, and for the sake of game mechanics you can summon them.

Thief may use denial magic (in fact it’s not sure, Assassins used it, it isn’t stated that the Thieves use it), but as you said Mesmer are the mind specialists, and the clones are illusions, not summons, they’re supposedly only on people minds, not in the physical world (that’s why they’re so fragile).

So Thief basically shouldn’t be able to use clones. It would be like a Ranger using Death Shroud. No matter if we’re jelly of their tricky clones and their fancy effects, it’s a Mesmer thing and if you want clones you can always have an alt character.

Some other observations, sorry for the negativism here:

The stealth skill doesn’t break stealth as it doesn’t attack, which means infinite teleports and swiftness gain? 15 second of swiftness spammed during all the 10 seconds given by SR it’s an insane ton of swiftness. If it’s an attack then it’s different but 15 second swiftness is overkill for a skill of this nature.

Also half your skills stealth you, and one of them does it for 24H, so you could easily maintain swiftness and even if 5 roots you, you could map travel stealthed with the stealth skill (even if it’s an attack you could aim it at thin air just to get the teleport and swiftness, with pracitce players would be able to travel with it as shadow steps ignore rooting effects.

The snipper idea you had in mind is interesting, but the way all those proposed skill melt with each other isn’t as convincing IMHO.

Lokheit.7943:

I’m sorry but we’re not mesmers. Their clones are cool and fancy, but it’s a Mesmer thing, not ours.

Our Thieves are like the Charr summon: buddies from our gang that we can call for help, and for the sake of game mechanics you can summon them.

Thief may use denial magic (in fact it’s not sure, Assassins used it, it isn’t stated that the Thieves use it), but as you said Mesmer are the mind specialists, and the clones are illusions, not summons, they’re supposedly only on people minds, not in the physical world (that’s why they’re so fragile).

So Thief basically shouldn’t be able to use clones. It would be like a Ranger using Death Shroud. No matter if we’re jelly of their tricky clones and their fancy effects, it’s a Mesmer thing and if you want clones you can always have an alt character.

Some other observations, sorry for the negativism here:

The stealth skill doesn’t break stealth as it doesn’t attack, which means infinite teleports and swiftness gain? 15 second of swiftness spammed during all the 10 seconds given by SR it’s an insane ton of swiftness. If it’s an attack then it’s different but 15 second swiftness is overkill for a skill of this nature.

Also half your skills stealth you, and one of them does it for 24H, so you could easily maintain swiftness and even if 5 roots you, you could map travel stealthed with the stealth skill (even if it’s an attack you could aim it at thin air just to get the teleport and swiftness, with pracitce players would be able to travel with it as shadow steps ignore rooting effects.

The snipper idea you had in mind is interesting, but the way all those proposed skill melt with each other isn’t as convincing IMHO.

Camouflage isn’t stealth, it doesn’t activate any stealth skills.
Camouflage isn’t effected by stealth traits.
Camouflage breaks on damage.
Camouflage breaks when an enemy gets too close.
Camouflage breaks when you move.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ash_Legion_Spy_Kit

The swiftness could work like Shadow Protector does, and only give you swiftness if you don’t have the boon “swiftness.”, that way it could only be used as a retreat.

Still too powerful as a 24H skill. Even if it’s break when attacked, you can plant yourself in a spot that rarely will receive any AoE attack (even when others check for spies in forts, or just outside them to control their movement) and inform your team of every enemy movement with total impunity (players don’t try to cover the 100% of the map with AoEs because it’s a waste of time and cooldowns). Not to mention the clone+stealth (which a Mesmer does with a VERY long cooldown… suddenly we can spam more clones than them at 4 initiative over 15 initiative points + initiative recharging while sumoning, probably 4 clones at the same time… and again there is no way we get clones, it’s a mesmer thing, they’re cool and fancy but it’s their thing) which would allow you to scape from them if they find you thanks to that stealth skill teleporting you away and giving you so much swiftness, find a good spot and camouflage again.

And as NPCs won’t try to bombard you if you become invisible and you can use the skill whenever you want for 6 initiative, it’s incredible in PvE too for a lot of stuff and always available without a cooldown or the need to land an attack every X seconds.

When a-net designed how stealth (or “camouflage”) works it wasn’t their intention to have it last more than a few seconds (that camouflage kit is something you pay for, that you can’t use if you don’t carry them, and still only lasts 10 seconds and breaks if you move). It’s completly unconceivable to have a permanent and reusable invisibility knowing a-net filosophy.

I’m sorry but a 24h invisibility won’t make the game. 8-10 seconds (probably even less as it’s unconditional stealth and you could always use it agains after the duration expires, with 6 initiative cost, 10 seconds of initiative recharge would be enough to keep it for a lot of time) maybe and probably without some of the other parts of the skill as alone it’s too good, but 24h? there is no way.

Not to mention it would be confuse for some players to throw a non-stealth invisibility skill in the middle of a lot of stealth invisibility skills.

I know what your idea for this is and it’s good, but it has to be done differently because this set is too exploitable as it is. Even if they go and try to find you, you can become invisible with other skill, teleport away (spamming it) and gain swiftness, find a good spot and camouflage until they’re gone. And you can repeat the process whenever you want. And even if you’re not acting as a explorer, you can use this process to reset every single fight with total imponity and 100% efficency without any risk of screwing things or being countered or needing cooldowns.

Thread was cool to read, thanks for the laughs.

so you want 1200 range weapon , and stealth on weapon skill
please post your counter for this weapon also

Rayya.2591:

so you want 1200 range weapon , and stealth on weapon skill
please post your counter for this weapon also

All Shields in the game, reflection walls, aegis, aoe damage.

I see you got all the bases covered in your rifle skills: crippleling, getting away/chasing, range, high sniper damage, stealth, minions, etc.

How about I just lend you my engies rifle skills?

Daecollo.9578:

Rayya.2591:

so you want 1200 range weapon , and stealth on weapon skill
please post your counter for this weapon also

All Shields in the game, reflection walls, aegis, aoe damage.

those will defently kill the thief
we already got p/d almost unkillable with 900 range

Thieves…

…now one-shotting you…

….from a mile away.

That ought to go down well in the community.

I’m all for giving Thieves more weapon choice and rifles seem like an obvious choice. I even like some of the abilities you suggest even though the initiative costs seem a little on the low end.

But the Sniping mechanic would really cause some issues.

Why not just have sniping as a Stealth attack with a 2.5 second cast time and maybe 1500 range. Seems a lot fairer than adding a completely new contrived mechanism.

Mid range, based around the Steal mechanic, deadly duelist, arcobatics, yes, lets give them a sniper rifle.
You’re upset that they don’t have what Warriors actually have or something?

MrForz.1953:

Mid range, based around the Steal mechanic, deadly duelist, arcobatics, yes, lets give them a sniper rifle.
You’re upset that they don’t have what Warriors actually have or something?

Thanks for your feedback, its very informative and suggests a lot of ideas to improve the idea.

Long and short Range, based around adrenaline (An adrenaline rush causes the muscles to perform respiration at an increased rate improving strength.), Heavy Armor, lets give them a sniper rifle!

Remember guys, variety =/= a buff. Thieves getting rifles don’t mean they’re getting stronger, it just gives them more build variety instead of p/d or backstab.

This has nothing to do with the skills posted above. I just replied because I felt it needed to be said.

Warriors are all around soldiers, they handle weapons, that’s what they’re about.

There is a difference between wanting variety, and just looking to get this or that weapon (For whatever fantasy) and the class not being able to use it. That suggestion is just downright stupid, irrationnal, egotistical and whiny while going at the reverse of everything a Thief is supposed to be, with toys and mechanics you shouldn’t even attempt to tamper with.

MrForz.1953:

Warriors are all around soldiers, they handle weapons, that’s what they’re about.

There is a difference between wanting variety, and just looking to get this or that weapon (For whatever fantasy) and the class not being able to use it. That suggestion is just downright stupid, irrationnal, egotistical and whiny while going at the reverse of everything a Thief is supposed to be, with toys and mechanics you shouldn’t even attempt to tamper with.

Just because it goes against the class doesn’t mean it won’t work.

Perfect example: Greatsword Ranger

MrForz.1953:

Warriors are all around soldiers, they handle weapons, that’s what they’re about.

There is a difference between wanting variety, and just looking to get this or that weapon (For whatever fantasy) and the class not being able to use it. That suggestion is just downright stupid, irrationnal, egotistical and whiny while going at the reverse of everything a Thief is supposed to be, with toys and mechanics you shouldn’t even attempt to tamper with.

Then can you offer me a better suggestion?

another question : 202 × 15 iniatitve= 3030
considering p attack 3500 vs target defence 2500 you got an 1.4 damage multiplier
so you stay camuflated and hit for 3030 x1.42.60 (critical) =11029. i did not calculated any might stacks and asssasin signet or traits pasive, where your damage with 1 hit (stealthed + 2500 range ??? ) can easy hit over 10k damage and can go up to 25 k damage vs glas cannons.
As well comparing warriors with thieves is cool . but warriors miss stealth

Yes, lets give the class that can already out run anyone under the sun, stealth and walk away from a mob, and anything else a super weapon. While you are at it why not make that skill 5 auto down people? Also, increase the range to 2000. This is a sniper one shot build after all. Also, this is not overpowered, it is a learn to play issue. People need to stop whining and learn to dodge.

Vanthian.9267:

Yes, lets give the class that can already out run anyone under the sun, stealth and walk away from a mob, and anything else a super weapon. While you are at it why not make that skill 5 auto down people? Also, increase the range to 2000. This is a sniper one shot build after all. Also, this is not overpowered, it is a learn to play issue. People need to stop whining and learn to dodge.

it has a 5 second cast, its basicly an all or nothing shot, and the thief would have nothing after firing, if something happend, you would know where he is.

Its crazy OP.
We already have insane mobility and stealth utilities, this coupled with a weapon that criples, knockbacks, summon clones and pierce/burst? really?

So with this weapon, you can combo a steal-knockback-cripple-stealth-shadowstep away-pierce burst target…
yea.. no way.

I’m all for a rifle thief, but it has to give the thief no mobility and stealth (or invis/camuflage w/e you want to call it) something more balanced would be:
AA – slow RoF, range-dependant dmg
Stealth – High range-dependant dmg burst shot (4secs channel, not able to move) – maybe less dmg than killshot, with added bleed on crit and/or positional dmg/cond

1. - weakness (cond) medium dmg shot (spammable cripple is way too op as criple stacks in duration)
2. - small 2-3 sec burst, unable to move while channeling
3. - some small explosive shot, or bleed/poison shot
4. - quick daze/stun (no knockbacks to a class that already have a ton of teleports)