Guild Wars 2

Straegen.2938:

Shenanigans! Black powder hitting for 1.5k?!? math:

• (84 * .25 * Power) * modifiers / Toughness

lets go crazy here:

• (84 * .25 * 4000) * 4 / 2000 = 168

As for 20k BS… again the math proves it is virtually impossible (a thief with 4k power and 4 on the modifier is buffed to the gods with a perfect strike):

• ((806 * 2.4 * 4000) * 4.00) / 2000 = 15.5k

against 3k toughness

• ((806 * 2.4 * 4000) * 4.00) / 3000 = 10.3k

In these cases, IMO the combat log is flat out lying and likely clumping several hits from multiple sources into one, some chopping has been done or a bug/cheat is in effect. It is also somewhat curious that a medium health pooled player soaked up 36k damage in about 2 seconds and didn’t die.

Added:
DAMAGE DONE = 1030(Ascended/lengardary weapon dmaage) * 4300 (power ) * 2.4 (backstab skill coeficent) * 200% (traits ) * 2.7 (Critical ) /3000 armor = result an 19133.25 backstab. Pretty near to 20k if you ask me.
Source:https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Toughness-not-mitigate-backstab-damage/first#post1692134
So don’t ask me how I get my data. But then I have no idea if it correct or not.
Add in some oddball vulnerability and you got over 20k. Of course this is extreme .
PS:combat log show dmg in one timestamp. It can show many times higher dmg than your health. If you don’t believe me, you can find a zerg , jump into the middle of it, die and check your combat log.

Also you forgot to add food buff so I think the 400% modifier and 3.8k power is possible

This thread is too long to read. Honestly, I’m happy with the way all classes are laid out at least in WvW. I never really find myself frustrated, only when I can’t catch a thief, lol. But a thief running away isn’t one that is hurting me. It’s their trade off for not being durable in battle. It’s called variety XD

shimmerless.4560:

I suppose it’s just from playing stealth classes, but I’ve always found the claims people make about the supposed strengths of stealth very exaggerated. You get a feel for how players think and where they’re going for the most part and with Thieves it’s doubly so since they’re position-reliant.

Agreed. I once dueled a thief, and he complained that I allways turned arround when he was about to backstab me. I get rolfstomped by theives from time to time. But I roflestomp them more than they do.

BTW: As a mesmer I can be in stealth and put out at least 2 phantasm who hit together for 10k dmg, with not fully glas cannon build. Hell I am not even focusing on the phantasm traits. And I don’t rely that heavy on positioning while I am not revelaed in the same time. Is that balanced? Oh and btw, I can stealth via decoy, even when under the revealed condition.

What ppl are complaining is nothing compared to the stuff higher skilled players can pull of with certain not so public builds. Thieves need some twaeking for the lower skill levels, agreed. But talking about eSports: Thiev would be one of the least issues that need balancing.

The problem is not stealth. Stealth is fine.
The problem is when people that don’t know their own class and completely ignore other ones want to go WvW solo… maybe because they lost their zerg and they want to join it.
This game is not “Street Fighter”. It’s not balanced on 1vs1 and WvW means support and group coordination.
Try to evolve !
Make a group, a well balanced group.
Support your mates and be supported by them.
Thieves will not be a problem anymore.

And if you are bad, it’s not because of stealth.
If stealth is so OP, roll a thief … and keep on dying, since you are bad.

stealth in this game in nowhere as easy to abuse as in wow for example heh

you think thieves are OP? look at what ppl run in wvw usualy…

hammer wars
eles
mesmers left and right
staff/hammer guards
staff necros

rangers, thieves, engis? nope, not so much

i think you are complaining about wrong things, OP

Fix stealth?
Easy: cc effects and block should cancel stealth and give revealed buff to thief.
Also BP+HS cannot hit and then stealth, that is “stupid”

Hule.8794:

Fix stealth?
Easy: cc effects and block should cancel stealth and give revealed buff to thief.
Also BP+HS cannot hit and then stealth, that is “stupid”

if they nerfed stealth like this they would have to buff thieves defense

amount of CCs in this game is quite absurd and can be spammed to certain extend as well, nobody would play thieves if they couldn’t stealth anymore

if they buffed thieves dmg and defense somewhere else we would just have another warrior class

come on Cynz, you really think that if thief hit guardian and is blocked, it is correct to not be revealed?
Or if thief is hit by fear and he run away, he should be stealthed?
Ok, immobilize or cripple, some effects should not affect stealth, but fear,block and stun should reveal thief.

and it is not a nerf, just fixing broken

cmon Hule you think it is fine that guardian can CC thief while thief is stealthed?
you think it is fine that guardian can block/retal pretty much everything thief has to offer dmg wise?

you think it is fine to sit in 8 sec fear taking full dmg and only way to get out of fear would be shadowstep since thieves don’t actually have stability outside of daggerstorm…

idk about you, but i get spam stunned/feared and watch all my crap getting blocked 24/7 in wvw

do you realize in most cases wvw is not 1v1, there is reason why most zerg or zerg busting groups don’t even run/want thieves outside of scouting and picking off struggles…

to do dmg, thieves have to litearry sacrifice any bit of defense they have, anything can pretty much one shot them; if you go bunker thief you do like no dmg; there quite few classes that can go bunker build and still do fairly high dmg though…

idk why ppl cry about stealth so much, you can relatively easy predict when theif will attack you and there are way to stop them; if they run, who cares? gives me time to capture camp or orb

i run tanky thief build for zergs and scouting, i laugh at all glass cannon thieves that try to kill me since they dump their entire initiative to take maybe 25% of my HP and i can easily kite them…. i am more scared of warriors since they can run fast, their survivability is ridicilous on top of high dmg

Daendur.2357:

The problem is when people that don’t know their own class and completely ignore other ones want to go WvW solo… maybe because they lost their zerg and they want to join it.
This game is not “Street Fighter”. It’s not balanced on 1vs1 and WvW means support and group coordination.

I think this is one of the bigger issues here. People keep crying but..
Just take a look about who chase in zerg. They see a single enemy and start to run becouse they MUST kill him/she.
BUT BUT BUT, of course, the chaser 99% of times is not builded for roaming or for 1vs1 so indeed they suck hard.
You can’t pretend to wear a random or noob or what the hell else build for following zerg and win every single 1vs1.

A guy one day told me something like “kitteng OP thieves they should be nerfed to the ground, they spawn ,just 2 skills and you are dead”
And this guys was lv 30.
So..

TyPin.9860:

BTW: As a mesmer I can be in stealth and put out at least 2 phantasm who hit together for 10k dmg

So you are using more then ONE skill…
A Thief doing even 10,000 damage from ONE skill is unacceptable. Then you get the ones that hit for alot more then that as well.

How can anyone defend such a mechanic? If you want to have perm stealth – thats fine the damage needs to be reduced. Why should a class have such a broken mechanic AND be able to deal so much damage from ONE skill. I mean steal alone can hit for 7,000+ as well

Though i am curious as to what Phantasms you are using, i am guessing Duelist and Zerker, both of whom you get hit maybe once or twice and dodge meaning the rest of the chain can easily be dodged.

Now if you had a Phantasm that could deal 10,000+ damage in ONE hit then i would see the connection but you are having to use 2+ Phantasms that use a chain attack which which ONLY get fully used if the target doesnt dodge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEF69Fewgmg this video pretty much sums up the actual skill lvl of majority of WvW

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

I mean steal alone can hit for 7,000+ as well

even more, on critters.

call me when you’ll say something seriously.

How can there be a ranger video of a 23k [Maul] (jubskie’s sticky on ranger forums has a link to the 23k Maul thread and video) yet thieves here saying they only get 5k backstabs. That’s ridiculous. Thieves have a troll build they can practically 1 shot anyone with—out of NO where— and it probably uses Valkyrie gear and power stacking. And all you berserker thieves are denying it because you never built with vitality or crit out of stealth because VITALITY DOES NO DIIIIIIIPS BRO. (Couldn’t be more wrong when in gw2, vitality is used in burst/Valkyrie builds). Someone is trolling and it’s not me. These are facts.

ArmageQQonAsh, W T F are you talking about?
jesus if i hate all this misinformation

For me, there is why stealth is broken:

Undetectable.
Spammeable.

Thief have absolute control over fight. They are who decide when the fight start, when to fight or when the fight is over. That is an awful experience for the other side, totally frustrating. Is not about who win that fight, thief is not overpower, is in a medium/bad place right now. But stealth is broken, not the thief.

Stealth need to be detectable (counterstealth mechanics or increase detection chance for distance or “x sec” looking toward the thief)
Stealth need to have internal CD for restealth, when you stealth ICD trigger and you cant restealth in that time.

If that happen thief need a buff in other utility areas (no more damage, damage is fine)

Stealth can be prevented.
Good players don’t let the thief go into stealth … bad players cry for a nerf.

Daendur, enlighten us how to do that.

Daendur.2357:

Stealth can be prevented.
Good players don’t let the thief go into stealth … bad players cry for a nerf.

I’m not omnipresent in EB, tell me how you do that.

daze? stun? cc? traps? if the thief has a dagger OH maybe just dodge? l2p?
generally all these things work good

mrmadhaze.8706:

daze? stun? cc? traps? if the thief has a dagger OH maybe just dodge? l2p?
generally all these things work good

And you have a PERFECT chain CC like 10seconds or more on your character? You have THAT amount of CC? because i dont.

Are you talking about 10 players chasing a thief spamming CC? Or only 1 or 2?

did you know thief can stunbreak and go to stealth?

You are talking to spam to “possible thief location” trying to guess if you are hitting him or not?

And even if you can land a CC on him, you can only hit a couple of times before the thief go to stealth again… you have the power of oneshoot someone? because i dont, if i have i will die with a couple of backstabs vs a good thief.

If you win vs a thief, he is a BAD ONE who decide to die. When i kill a thief with my guard, is because he is a bad one who decide to die through retaliation.

VS GOOD THIEF you lose or thief run. No other possibility.

Chopps.5047:

How can there be a ranger video of a 23k [Maul] (jubskie’s sticky on ranger forums has a link to the 23k Maul thread and video) yet thieves here saying they only get 5k backstabs. That’s ridiculous. Thieves have a troll build they can practically 1 shot anyone with—out of NO where— and it probably uses Valkyrie gear and power stacking. And all you berserker thieves are denying it because you never built with vitality or crit out of stealth because VITALITY DOES NO DIIIIIIIPS BRO. (Couldn’t be more wrong when in gw2, vitality is used in burst/Valkyrie builds). Someone is trolling and it’s not me. These are facts.

Have to admit that I don’t quite get this. Berserker’s gear has power, precision and critical damage, so that would be the highest damage potential gear and the highest out of stealth critical damage. What kind of build are you talking about with Valkyrie gear? I run PTV gear and berskerker’s trinkets and do about 5k backstabs, but then again I might be a little bit on low side of damage. Build to sustain a bit longer fight and take down full berserker thieves.

EDIT: With my build there is no way of taking down even moderately skilled warrior roamer (healing signet, greatword, stuns) that does not commit too much.

urieldhynne.2743:

mrmadhaze.8706:

daze? stun? cc? traps? if the thief has a dagger OH maybe just dodge? l2p?
generally all these things work good

And you have a PERFECT chain CC like 10seconds or more on your character? You have THAT amount of CC? because i dont.

Are you talking about 10 players chasing a thief spamming CC? Or only 1 or 2?

did you know thief can stunbreak and go to stealth?

You are talking to spam to “possible thief location” trying to guess if you are hitting him or not?

And even if you can land a CC on him, you can only hit a couple of times before the thief go to stealth again… you have the power of oneshoot someone? because i dont, if i have i will die with a couple of backstabs vs a good thief.

If you win vs a thief, he is a BAD ONE who decide to die. When i kill a thief with my guard, is because he is a bad one who decide to die through retaliation.

VS GOOD THIEF you lose or thief run. No other possibility.

a running thief is a thief that lost his battle.
I prefer to die than run away; this makes me a bad thief? ok no problem.
the point is not CC a thief for 10 or more seconds, the point is use your CC at the right moment. make him waste his cooldown and than strike.
basically l2p.

KOK.2650:

DAMAGE DONE = 1030(Ascended/lengardary weapon dmaage) * 4300 (power ) * 2.4 (backstab skill coeficent) * 200% (traits ) * 2.7 (Critical ) /3000 armor = result an 19133.25 backstab. Pretty near to 20k if you ask me.
Source:https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Toughness-not-mitigate-backstab-damage/first#post1692134

Also you forgot to add food buff so I think the 400% modifier and 3.8k power is possible

First off your math is wrong somewhere (my guess is you are multiplying two modifiers instead of one):

((1030 * 2.4 * 4300) * 4.70) / 3000 = 16.7k

Even considering that the numbers listed above are exaggerated. A 4.7 modifier is practically impossible. I would like to see how it is possible actually. Most plateau around 3… maybe 3.5 but that likely comes at the expense of power. 4300 power is possible but again it will likely effect the modifier and does require Bloodlust, World Bloodlust, full Might stacks, Guard Leech and food. Also most of these complaints do not include Ascended damage because it hasn’t been around long (a week or so). Basically you are plugging numbers in that have little basis in an actual WvW fight. I have been playing for thousands of hours and have NEVER seen this damage output outside of a lot of conditions/boons flying around.

A solo thief walking around with 25 stacks of might, 4300 power and 4.7 modifier… show me how because I will roll it in a second just to see how it plays.

Daendur.2357:

urieldhynne.2743:

mrmadhaze.8706:

daze? stun? cc? traps? if the thief has a dagger OH maybe just dodge? l2p?
generally all these things work good

And you have a PERFECT chain CC like 10seconds or more on your character? You have THAT amount of CC? because i dont.

Are you talking about 10 players chasing a thief spamming CC? Or only 1 or 2?

did you know thief can stunbreak and go to stealth?

You are talking to spam to “possible thief location” trying to guess if you are hitting him or not?

And even if you can land a CC on him, you can only hit a couple of times before the thief go to stealth again… you have the power of oneshoot someone? because i dont, if i have i will die with a couple of backstabs vs a good thief.

If you win vs a thief, he is a BAD ONE who decide to die. When i kill a thief with my guard, is because he is a bad one who decide to die through retaliation.

VS GOOD THIEF you lose or thief run. No other possibility.

a running thief is a thief that lost his battle.
I prefer to die than run away; this makes me a bad thief? ok no problem.
the point is not CC a thief for 10 or more seconds, the point is use your CC at the right moment. make him waste his cooldown and than strike.
basically l2p.

Nah, the opener a against a thief involves immediate and potent doses of hate. You stun them immediately, then you hit them hard, then you stun them again, then you immobilize them, and then you hit them even harder. Against a thief, the best defense is a strong offense. If you give them the chance to get away from you, they will stealth, they will cleanse their conditions, they will come back at you with full health and full initiative.

Think of the most merciless combinations of stuns, cripples, chills, and immobilizes your class is capable of and put as many of those as you can in a build with a minimum of 3k attack, 50% crit rate, and 50% crit damage.

The best way to kill a thief is immediately and with extreme prejudice.

Bogey.5423:

Chopps.5047:

How can there be a ranger video of a 23k [Maul] (jubskie’s sticky on ranger forums has a link to the 23k Maul thread and video) yet thieves here saying they only get 5k backstabs. That’s ridiculous. Thieves have a troll build they can practically 1 shot anyone with—out of NO where— and it probably uses Valkyrie gear and power stacking. And all you berserker thieves are denying it because you never built with vitality or crit out of stealth because VITALITY DOES NO DIIIIIIIPS BRO. (Couldn’t be more wrong when in gw2, vitality is used in burst/Valkyrie builds). Someone is trolling and it’s not me. These are facts.

Have to admit that I don’t quite get this. Berserker’s gear has power, precision and critical damage, so that would be the highest damage potential gear and the highest out of stealth critical damage. What kind of build are you talking about with Valkyrie gear? I run PTV gear and berskerker’s trinkets and do about 5k backstabs, but then again I might be a little bit on low side of damage. Build to sustain a bit longer fight and take down full berserker thieves.

EDIT: With my build there is no way of taking down even moderately skilled warrior roamer (healing signet, greatword, stuns) that does not commit too much.

Allow me to explain. If you get a free crit out of stealth, you don’t ever need precision. See, instead you can go full valkryie(power vitality crit dmg). Rangers, for example, get “remorseless” which gives a free crit after stealth through opening strikes re-application and the activation of the 25 point marksmanship trait of Precise Strikes. We can also convert vitality to power through traits like strength of spirit (5% vitality to power) or food, like a sharpening stone or maintenance oils. Now eat dragons breath bun for another 10% crit damage and more power after kill.

That’s how you maximize power and crits. Berserker is big, sustained damage. Valkryie is insane, massive burst on one blow, then few crits afterwards. If you want to spike, you play Valkyrie in pvp, not berserker, at least with ranger and thief.

Chopps.5047:

Allow me to explain. If you get a free crit out of stealth, you don’t ever need precision. See, instead you can go full valkryie(power vitality crit dmg). Rangers, for example, get “remorseless” which gives a free crit after stealth through opening strikes re-application and the activation of the 25 point marksmanship trait of Precise Strikes. We can also convert vitality to power through traits like strength of spirit (5% vitality to power) or food, like a sharpening stone or maintenance oils. Now eat dragons breath bun for another 10% crit damage and more power after kill.

That’s how you maximize power and crits. Berserker is big, sustained damage. Valkryie is insane, massive burst on one blow, then few crits afterwards. If you want to spike, you play Valkyrie in pvp, not berserker, at least with ranger and thief.

100% critical chance from stealth require Hidden Killer (Grandmaster trait, 30 points). If you want to spike with multiple skills, not just alone backstab, then critical chance (i.e. precision) is required for other skills to do critical. Thief does not have trait that would convert vitality into power, so vitality does not alter power/attack. Hence if only damage is desired, berserker’s gear is still the best one for thief.

No.

How do you make a crit bigger? More power.

How do you get more power? By increasing your vitality and eating +6% vitality to power and +4% toughness to power. You use a bloodlust sigil. You use dragon’s breath bun type food. In this way, I don’t care if you’re ranger or thief. You will get more power and do more burst on that 1 shot. This is the 1 shot build whether you believe it or not. Notice I never mentioned a specific trait here besides the grandmaster that lets you get the free crit. Besides that, I only said to build in vitality, use maintenance oil and dragons breath bun, and wear Valkyrie. Any profession can do that but thieves get a free crit for stealthing. So they should be able to pop out, to a 10k or 15k burst, then stealth again. This is the build that is upsetting players and why we’re getting anti stealth.

Again: if a ranger is on tape doing a 23,000 crit on an upleveled weakling, I’m sure thief can crit much harder. Or are you admitting that thief cannot burst like ranger? Lol

I got you guys between a rock and a hard place. Either you admit ranger can burst more than thief or admit that thief can crit more than 5k.

let’s just uber nerf it. ex. now stealth only makes you transparent. or now it it has some sort of hardish to see trailing effect, like spectral walk but transparent.
Then give thieves nice buffs in exchange.

For the record, this isn’t a very serious suggestion, it’s just fun to think about.

Chopps.5047:

No.

How do you make a crit bigger? More power.

How do you get more power? By increasing your vitality and eating +6% vitality to power and +4% toughness to power. You use a bloodlust sigil. You use dragon’s breath bun type food. In this way, I don’t care if you’re ranger or thief. You will get more power and do more burst on that 1 shot. This is the 1 shot build whether you believe it or not.

Again: if a ranger is on tape doing a 23,000 crit on an upleveled weakling, I’m sure thief can crit much harder. Or are you admitting that thief cannot burst like ranger? Lol

I got you guys between a rock and a hard place. Either you admit ranger can burst more than thief or admit that thief can crit more than 5k.

Too lazy to do calculations, so would you kindly present them?

I don’t actually know which can burst more, hence asked to see some numbers. I just told what damage I do with backstab. Granted, I do not have a glass cannon purely build to see big white numbers on screen. I thought it was not about who can build most glassiest cannon out there, rather thief balance and especially stealth.

Sure thief can backstab more than 5k, even my thief with PTV gear does 5k. I don’t know what you are really after. Winning forum argument with semantics?

Bogey.5423:

Chopps.5047:

No.

How do you make a crit bigger? More power.

How do you get more power? By increasing your vitality and eating +6% vitality to power and +4% toughness to power. You use a bloodlust sigil. You use dragon’s breath bun type food. In this way, I don’t care if you’re ranger or thief. You will get more power and do more burst on that 1 shot. This is the 1 shot build whether you believe it or not.

Again: if a ranger is on tape doing a 23,000 crit on an upleveled weakling, I’m sure thief can crit much harder. Or are you admitting that thief cannot burst like ranger? Lol

I got you guys between a rock and a hard place. Either you admit ranger can burst more than thief or admit that thief can crit more than 5k.

Too lazy to do calculations, so would you kindly present them?

I don’t actually know which can burst more, hence asked to see some numbers. I just told what damage I do with backstab. Granted, I do not have a glass cannon purely build to see big white numbers on screen. I thought it was not about who can build most glassiest cannon out there, rather thief balance and especially stealth.

Sure thief can backstab more than 5k, even my thief with PTV gear does 5k. I don’t know what you are really after. Winning forum argument with semantics?

I tried to calculate it above, but I got about 4.7 k and that was it. I’m thinking the formula the guy gave me was wrong.

Madora.9340:

I tried to calculate it above, but I got about 4.7 k and that was it. I’m thinking the formula the guy gave me was wrong.

This has nothing to do with topic really, but that is most damage anyone has ever done to me in a single hit – 13k with Eviscerate (Warrior main hand axe burst). Like seen, it was to Ogden’s armor (light armor with power + vitality + condition damage), so armor was then kinda low (~2000). I might have been lucky, but no thief have ever backstabbed me really much over 10k.

Chopps.5047:

How can there be a ranger video of a 23k [Maul] (jubskie’s sticky on ranger forums has a link to the 23k Maul thread and video) yet thieves here saying they only get 5k backstabs. That’s ridiculous. Thieves have a troll build they can practically 1 shot anyone with—out of NO where— and it probably uses Valkyrie gear and power stacking.

Yes it is possible for a Ranger to spike a huge shot even bigger than a thief (in theory). However it is only one shot and if dodged, blocked or the target is hardened it does a fraction of the damage and leaves the ranger ridiculously vulnerable. Also going this route forgoes most condition removal.

In contrast, thieves don’t have utility skills that essentially double their damage on one hit. So comparing one hail mary shot from a different class and applying to a standard skill in another simply doesn’t work.

I can spam 8k+ hits on my thief. pretty easily.

Bogey.5423:

100% critical chance from stealth require Hidden Killer (Grandmaster trait, 30 points). If you want to spike with multiple skills, not just alone backstab, then critical chance (i.e. precision) is required for other skills to do critical. Thief does not have trait that would convert vitality into power, so vitality does not alter power/attack. Hence if only damage is desired, berserker’s gear is still the best one for thief.

http://www.gw2db.com/recipes/705-superior-sharpening-stone-s
That why I said if you as a thief QQ that you don’t hit that much, you build wrongly.
So er L2P? lol

Obscure One.4357:

Nah, the opener a against a thief involves immediate and potent doses of hate. You stun them immediately, then you hit them hard, then you stun them again, then you immobilize them, and then you hit them even harder. Against a thief, the best defense is a strong offense. If you give them the chance to get away from you, they will stealth, they will cleanse their conditions, they will come back at you with full health and full initiative.

Think of the most merciless combinations of stuns, cripples, chills, and immobilizes your class is capable of and put as many of those as you can in a build with a minimum of 3k attack, 50% crit rate, and 50% crit damage.

The best way to kill a thief is immediately and with extreme prejudice.

This, against me, never worked.
I’m suffering more a steady pressure than what you described.
It is that few small details can completely change a build and probably we had different experiences.

KOK.2650:

Bogey.5423:

100% critical chance from stealth require Hidden Killer (Grandmaster trait, 30 points). If you want to spike with multiple skills, not just alone backstab, then critical chance (i.e. precision) is required for other skills to do critical. Thief does not have trait that would convert vitality into power, so vitality does not alter power/attack. Hence if only damage is desired, berserker’s gear is still the best one for thief.

http://www.gw2db.com/recipes/705-superior-sharpening-stone-s
That why I said if you as a thief QQ that you don’t hit that much, you build wrongly.
So er L2P? lol

Do you actually have some calculations or just trolling with something that I actually did not say? What I said was that there is no trait that would convert vitality into power, which was comparison to ranger traits. Nowhere did I complain that I do not hit hard enough with my thief. In fact I stated that I use PTV gear on thief and my damage is on the low side. I am well aware that my thief is not a glass cannon.

Would be nice to see some calculations on berserker’s vs. valkyrie gear and which deliver more spike. Goalpost seem to move accordingly what suits arguments – sometimes it is single hit and sometimes it is spiking (which does not mean using single hit, rather fast execution with combination of skills).

P.S. Why do you classify people as thieves? Many people play bunch of professions in WvW. Only one that I do not play is ranger, but working on it – level 53 at the moment. I guess it is convenience thing. Label people as some profession and then you can disregard anything they say about that profession, just because they play that profession they are just defending irrationally their profession.

Bogey.5423:

Would be nice to see some calculations on berserker’s vs. valkyrie gear and which deliver more spike. Goalpost seem to move accordingly what suits arguments – sometimes it is single hit and sometimes it is spiking (which does mean using single hit, rather fast execution with combination of skills).

P.S. Why do you classify people as thieves? Many people play bunch of professions in WvW. Only one that I do not play is ranger, but working on it – level 53 at the moment. I guess it is convenience thing. Label people as some profession and then you can disregard anything they say about that profession, just because they play that profession they are just defending irrationally their profession.

I have 8 char , All in Exotic and lvl 80.(can show u SS if you don’t believe me)
You think you are the only one who played more than 1 toon?
Lvl 53 ranger is nothing to boost about actually.
By the way, more power and crt dmg give more dmg to a skill that always crt than crt chances. You don’t need formulate to show it.
In thief BS combo, only C&D is affected by crt chances. Steal don’t crt and BS will always crt with hidden killer.

Note that this ranger don’t hit more than 14k against lvl 80 toon which a thief can do more (not much more).

KOK.2650:

I have 8 char , All in Exotic and lvl 80.(can show u SS if you don’t believe me)
You think you are the only one who played more than 1 toon?
Lvl 53 ranger is nothing to boost about actually.
By the way, more power and crt dmg give more dmg to a skill that always crt than crt chances. You don’t need formulate to show it.
In thief BS combo, only C&D is affected by crt chances. Steal don’t crt and BS will always crt with hidden killer.

Note that this ranger don’t hit more than 14k against lvl 80 toon which a thief can do more (not much more).

Why wouldn’t I believe it? I already said that many people play bunch of professions. Not bragging with my level 53 ranger as you could have seen on context, but I guess you just like to twist that context and what people are actually saying for your own purposes.

I rather see some numbers than blindly believe what someone says, even though they think they are expert on matter.

Chopps.5047:

No.

How do you make a crit bigger? More power.

How do you get more power? By increasing your vitality and eating +6% vitality to power and +4% toughness to power. You use a bloodlust sigil. You use dragon’s breath bun type food. In this way, I don’t care if you’re ranger or thief. You will get more power and do more burst on that 1 shot. This is the 1 shot build whether you believe it or not. Notice I never mentioned a specific trait here besides the grandmaster that lets you get the free crit. Besides that, I only said to build in vitality, use maintenance oil and dragons breath bun, and wear Valkyrie. Any profession can do that but thieves get a free crit for stealthing. So they should be able to pop out, to a 10k or 15k burst, then stealth again. This is the build that is upsetting players and why we’re getting anti stealth.

You do realize any class can do what you described above? (valk gear with 100% crit)
Sigil of Intelligence
On some classes (ele and eng…others as well) this can be used disturbingly well…

It’s funny cause people complain more about the damage of a thief which with the same item set is only about par with that of other classes while having less hp/armor.
You can go glass cannon with a warrior, deal at least the same damage in the same amount of time while having twice the hp and way more armor.

Hide on sight stealth is a problem when you can run away in any situation, but to say that thief is OP because of its damage is just kittening hilarious. Considering that to go near the damage some people was talking about you have to drop SA and go full glass that means you’re running around with like 13k hp and less than 2k armor with no regen or cond removal.

If that build is a problem for you than for kitten sake go play tetris.

A good balanced “kind-of-immortal” thief build with valk/zerk and 30 SA is going to crit backstab for from 4.5 to 7k depending on armor. Which I don’t really see as OP problem since he’s going to lack sustained dmg.
The problem, with that kind of build, is that you actually are never going to die if you play well, and that I think it’s unfair.

But again, you could say the same about mobility/regen warriors. gl catching them if they start running

I kind of agree with some of the stuff in this thread. I run glass cannon engineer 100% of the time, and I will by no means claim to be an expert on thieves. With that being said, I do just as much damage as a thief however in a 1 v 1 situation they have a 100% advantage because they will always have the option to use stealth to open and stealth to escape. Have I beaten bad thieves? Absolutely, I’ve instagibbed so many with a magnetpull/grenade barrage/jumpshot combo that I could not even begin to count.

However you know what happens when a good thief comes at me? He basically spams stealth and constantly resets the fight until he gets his burst rotation perfect and kills me. The funny thing is you cannot possibly chase one down, as they have the best mobility in the game. My point is this…. can other classes go full glass and do the same damage as a thief? Sure, but we don’t get the same get of jail free card which is bullcrap and anyone saying it isn’t is full of it.

I’ve learned to still beat warriors roaming in wvw, without beastmaster / regen. It was such a relief to find a way to beat them (stun warriors)—still good battles, I still lose to a better player occasionally (great ele’s always scare me, anything really—except one).

The thief. They necessitate aoe spam right now.

Any thief can reset the fight and run away. I fought a thief 1v1 yesterday (without aoe dmg) near the new central ruins. I made that player shadow refuge three times, each time the thief was able to reset the fight and just try to catch me off my guard again.

I don’t like that kind of fighting style because it feels cheap. If only I could force a reveal on them before they tried to pop that shadow refuge…

zaragoz.6351:

I kind of agree with some of the stuff in this thread. I run glass cannon engineer 100% of the time, and I will by no means claim to be an expert on thieves. With that being said, I do just as much damage as a thief however in a 1 v 1 situation they have a 100% advantage because they will always have the option to use stealth to open and stealth to escape. Have I beaten bad thieves? Absolutely, I’ve instagibbed so many with a magnetpull/grenade barrage/jumpshot combo that I could not even begin to count.

However you know what happens when a good thief comes at me? He basically spams stealth and constantly resets the fight until he gets his burst rotation perfect and kills me. The funny thing is you cannot possibly chase one down, as they have the best mobility in the game. My point is this…. can other classes go full glass and do the same damage as a thief? Sure, but we don’t get the same get of jail free card which is bullcrap and anyone saying it isn’t is full of it.

its called a free gtfo card and the reason why 8/10 solo roamers you’ll find are thieves.

zaragoz.6351:

I kind of agree with some of the stuff in this thread. I run glass cannon engineer 100% of the time, and I will by no means claim to be an expert on thieves. With that being said, I do just as much damage as a thief however in a 1 v 1 situation they have a 100% advantage because they will always have the option to use stealth to open and stealth to escape. Have I beaten bad thieves? Absolutely, I’ve instagibbed so many with a magnetpull/grenade barrage/jumpshot combo that I could not even begin to count.

However you know what happens when a good thief comes at me? He basically spams stealth and constantly resets the fight until he gets his burst rotation perfect and kills me. The funny thing is you cannot possibly chase one down, as they have the best mobility in the game. My point is this…. can other classes go full glass and do the same damage as a thief? Sure, but we don’t get the same get of jail free card which is bullcrap and anyone saying it isn’t is full of it.

Perma stealth thieves are far from GC and put out much less dps than other classes.
You can do your magnet pull and the rest of your combo even if thief is hidden.
If you go out glasscannon you have to accept to die.
Thieves don’t have the best mobility. Warriors do.

Well, I solo roam on ET as a full glass engineer, and do pretty good, but yes I do run into A LOT of thieves.

Daendur, although warriors might have a little better mobility, you cannot compare the escape viability of a warrior vs a thief, stealth gives so much misdirection that it isn’t even funny, and it leaves so much guesswork for the people trying to attack the thief, guesswork without any guarantee. Yeah……….

zaragoz.6351:

Daendur, although warriors might have a little better mobility, you cannot compare the escape viability of a warrior vs a thief, stealth gives so much misdirection that it isn’t even funny, and it leaves so much guesswork for the people trying to attack the thief, guesswork without any guarantee. Yeah……….

I said it before. Thieves are very good at escaping from zergs, while warriors still have better mobility.
That’s why a lot of solo roamers are thieves while the most played class is warrior…. tbh mobility is not the only reason … the class is quite simple, grants you group support, great damage, great mobility, high base hp pool and heavy armor….

Daendur.2357:

Perma stealth thieves are far from GC and put out much less dps than other classes.
You can do your magnet pull and the rest of your combo even if thief is hidden.
If you go out glasscannon you have to accept to die.
Thieves don’t have the best mobility. Warriors do.

You can magnet pull someone you can’t click?
Oh wait, you can’t
The only pull that is useful is binding blade . But it can be dodge, have short range, and have a nice icon.

I think he means that if you start the magnet, before they stealth it still pulls them to you. From there you can drop an aoe such as grenade barrage, and from there they are gone. So unless that 1 grenade barrage insta-gibs them they will just retreat and reset the fight. And you start over with two of your best abilities on cd.