Guild Wars 2

Hands down many people say after the patch that thief is become UP.
Post here why u think this class is UP and what is UP.(Traits/skills/weapons/class design)

MIMI/Flames are not allowed, be constructiv.

The thief has become underpowered due to nerfs directed towards the thief’s survival mechanics. It isn’t just this latest patch but the gradual collections of nerfs that are the culprit.

Black Powder now does not provide much protection against melee anymore and skills with evades have had their evade times and distances dropped to near insignificant amounts.

And it isn’t just some traits that are underpowered but they contribute to the profession’s current condition. And everyone else believes that the lackluster traits and skills are justified because the thief makes up for it in damage and high access to damage avoidance, which is inherently false.

The damage they are thinking about comes from one (maybe two attacks) from one weapon. The rest of the attacks available are weak damage-wise due to their high utility. As for Damage Avoidance, with the nerfs to evasion times the evades have to be highly accurate in order for the evades to work. However this leaves healing and condition removal in a pit because evasion > guarding on paper. However in reality 1/4-1/2 a second of evasion time hardly avoids anything.

And nobody thinks about this. Hence why thief is good for solo-ganking bad players only. It isn’t even the best.

EU ToG final had 2 thieves, what can i say?

Thief is not UP.

Thief is utterly UP in Build Diversity.

Simon.3794:

EU ToG final had 2 thieves, what can i say?

That doesn’t matter.

Traits are not useful enough.

You’ll need many trait points to increase the survivability of the Thief for a little bit, and it lowers the damage potential of them, which is their strength, greatly, so it would be kinda silly to spend trait points on those (unless it makes maneuvering easier).

All I’m saying is that we need a fair exchange between offensive and defensive power.

If youre good thieves are awesome. If youre bad and try playing a thief then yes it’s very UP

at the beginning thieves builds were more about dmg like 6,6,2,0,0 , but in time and nerf by nerf and other classes buff to conditions, dmg and handle stealth and to gain stealth thieves builds went for more evades like the 2,0,0,6,6

the last patch tried to handle some build diversity but failed as nothing has change

builds stayed the same
2,6,6,0,0
0,6,6,2,0
2,0,0,6,6
0,6,0,4,4

still the p/p set and d/d forgotten
s/d and d/p for power
and the only op build is the p/d condition which only good on 1v1 wvw

so to sum it up
for the average players out there i think yes thieves are up compare to other average players
good thief can handle himself in any situation but mainly good in 1v1 situations
still in group play he is not so much needed (even rangers are now needed)

Its easy to get your face kicked in hard trying to learn the class. People hate thieves. When I went from condi bunker warrior to zerker ranger I knew I was going to have some very bad nights but I kept in there even fighting with my upscale vs lvl 80 thieves knowing it was lol worthy attempt. But you can’t learn a class/build in 30min against golems on spvp isle. Get out there and get rekt repeatedly and you will learn something. But please don’t turn into a corpse hoping idiot because you hated getting your face stomped in while learning the class… Seen way too much of that its just disgusting.

Leolas.6273:

Thief is utterly UP in Build Diversity.

Simon.3794:

EU ToG final had 2 thieves, what can i say?

That doesn’t matter.

Yea ofc it doesnt matter.

Top teams bring thieves to finals in a big tournament = doesnt matter, still UP.

Logic is hard.

Simon.3794:

Leolas.6273:

Thief is utterly UP in Build Diversity.

Simon.3794:

EU ToG final had 2 thieves, what can i say?

That doesn’t matter.

Yea ofc it doesnt matter.

Top teams bring thieves to finals in a big tournament = doesnt matter, still UP.

Logic is hard.

did you even see that there are other game Mods like PvE/WvWvW? I dont say that thief is unplayable.But he is UP in Diversity,heavily forced into some speccs.

Top teams even have thiefs in their teams yep but that doesnt mean that this class have design fails and utterly UP Skills/Speccs.

Leolas.6273:

Simon.3794:

Leolas.6273:

Thief is utterly UP in Build Diversity.

Simon.3794:

EU ToG final had 2 thieves, what can i say?

That doesn’t matter.

Yea ofc it doesnt matter.

Top teams bring thieves to finals in a big tournament = doesnt matter, still UP.

Logic is hard.

did you even see that there are other game Mods like PvE/WvWvW? I dont say that thief is unplayable.But he is UP in Diversity,heavily forced into some speccs.

Top teams even have thiefs in their teams yep but that doesnt mean that this class have design fails and utterly UP Skills/Speccs.

Thief is one of the best roamer classes in WvWvW
and 2nd best DPS for PvE and best group stealth for dungeon speed run through.
there’s a thief for every top team in PvP.

I seriously don’t know what else you complain about.

Stealth>viable power or condi wvw roamer
Conquest>reduction of diversity
PvE>zerker gear is available to all

QQ needs to first stop and some thieves need to get rid of their judgement phobia then the class sustain come first.

Simon.3794:

Leolas.6273:

Simon.3794:

Leolas.6273:

Thief is utterly UP in Build Diversity.

Simon.3794:

EU ToG final had 2 thieves, what can i say?

That doesn’t matter.

Yea ofc it doesnt matter.

Top teams bring thieves to finals in a big tournament = doesnt matter, still UP.

Logic is hard.

did you even see that there are other game Mods like PvE/WvWvW? I dont say that thief is unplayable.But he is UP in Diversity,heavily forced into some speccs.

Top teams even have thiefs in their teams yep but that doesnt mean that this class have design fails and utterly UP Skills/Speccs.

Thief is one of the best roamer classes in WvWvW
and 2nd best DPS for PvE and best group stealth for dungeon speed run through.
there’s a thief for every top team in PvP.

I seriously don’t know what else you complain about.

did you read what i wrote? wait i help you → Build Diversity

Leolas.6273:

Simon.3794:

Leolas.6273:

Simon.3794:

Leolas.6273:

Thief is utterly UP in Build Diversity.

Simon.3794:

EU ToG final had 2 thieves, what can i say?

That doesn’t matter.

Yea ofc it doesnt matter.

Top teams bring thieves to finals in a big tournament = doesnt matter, still UP.

Logic is hard.

did you even see that there are other game Mods like PvE/WvWvW? I dont say that thief is unplayable.But he is UP in Diversity,heavily forced into some speccs.

Top teams even have thiefs in their teams yep but that doesnt mean that this class have design fails and utterly UP Skills/Speccs.

Thief is one of the best roamer classes in WvWvW
and 2nd best DPS for PvE and best group stealth for dungeon speed run through.
there’s a thief for every top team in PvP.

I seriously don’t know what else you complain about.

did you read what i wrote? wait i help you -> Build Diversity

Thief has a tons of WvW roamer build from power to condition, DP to SD to SP to PD to DD to traps builds.

PvE is for everyone, which build does the most damage the better, and thief comes out to be the 2nd best dps of all classes.

PvP, classes who don’t have a high appearance in top tournament should be more UP, don’t you think? and thief appear a lot more then most of the classes. so if there are more classes UP then thief, thief still UP?

I’m gonna go ahead and say that thief is not UP, it just the ridiculous amount of bugs and server lag that was introduced during the last patch. Getting hit during a dodge is one of the most frustrating things lately, and it makes thief feel UP because we can’t soak damage like other classes can, so it’s more noticeable on us. HS not hitting is another big thing now with the server lag, so finishing people off is becoming a huge problem.

Thief is fine now when it comes to balance. A slight nerf to SA and a buff to other skills such as traps, venoms, …. would be nice, but other than that we’re good.
The only thing that makes thief ‘UP’ atm is the amount of bugs that plague the profession. They just need to fix those.

Thief is not underpowered it just has a higher skillcap than other classes

Thieves doesn’t need any buffs. Despite the constant “nerfs”, it is still a top tier class in pretty much all game modes. What does that tell you?.. oh that before nerfs that must have being OP as kitten order to be able to endure so many nerfs.

They are still one of the top tier pvp roamers with two competitive builds, sd and dp which is considered quite good for high level pvp since most other classes only have one viable build.

PvE they are probably the most important class tied with the guardian for any dungeons. Build diversity don’t matter in this game mode because its all just zerk and stack.

They are top tier roamers in wvw with the most viable build. d/p, s/d and p/d

If anything other classes should come first in terms of buffs to build diversity or whatever it is you want thieves to buffed because right now they really don’t need any.

Lifestealer.4910:

Thieves doesn’t need any buffs. Despite the constant “nerfs”, it is still a top tier class in pretty much all game modes. What does that tell you?.. oh that before nerfs that must have being OP as kitten order to be able to endure so many nerfs.

They are still one of the top tier pvp roamers with two competitive builds, sd and dp which is considered quite good for high level pvp since most other classes only have one viable build.

PvE they are probably the most important class tied with the guardian for any dungeons. Build diversity don’t matter in this game mode because its all just zerk and stack.

They are top tier roamers in wvw with the most viable build. d/p, s/d and p/d

If anything other classes should come first in terms of buffs to build diversity or whatever it is you want thieves to buffed because right now they really don’t need any.

The only reason why thief would be a top roamer in anything is because a majority of the players turn into deer in headlights when a thief stealths. Every weapon set you have listed does that through weapon skills. Aside from that they are stealth bots… again stealth.

The only justification people with that kind of opinion have for thief is stealth and thieves want something other than that. Less stealth reliance through buffs to every lackluster trait they have and fixes to their bugs so that thieves can stop being stealth bots and start killing all those bad players “legitimately”.

Nerf the spamming machine please….for love of god.
Spamming evade / Spamming stealth ruin the challenge and in the end the game.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Lifestealer.4910:

Thieves doesn’t need any buffs. Despite the constant “nerfs”, it is still a top tier class in pretty much all game modes. What does that tell you?.. oh that before nerfs that must have being OP as kitten order to be able to endure so many nerfs.

They are still one of the top tier pvp roamers with two competitive builds, sd and dp which is considered quite good for high level pvp since most other classes only have one viable build.

PvE they are probably the most important class tied with the guardian for any dungeons. Build diversity don’t matter in this game mode because its all just zerk and stack.

They are top tier roamers in wvw with the most viable build. d/p, s/d and p/d

If anything other classes should come first in terms of buffs to build diversity or whatever it is you want thieves to buffed because right now they really don’t need any.

The only reason why thief would be a top roamer in anything is because a majority of the players turn into deer in headlights when a thief stealths. Every weapon set you have listed does that through weapon skills. Aside from that they are stealth bots… again stealth.

The only justification people with that kind of opinion have for thief is stealth and thieves want something other than that. Less stealth reliance through buffs to every lackluster trait they have and fixes to their bugs so that thieves can stop being stealth bots and start killing all those bad players “legitimately”.

Thieves are good roamers whether vsing good players or not. Not everyone has many spells at their disposal that they can throw around randomly praying it hits the thief in stealth. Thieves are top tier in pvp as well not because of stealth spam but because of the high spike dmg to survivability ratio. An engineer can be built to do almost the same if not more damage than a thief but their survivability goes complete poop if they do, where as thieves still have many options of defense in a full offensive build.

Stealth will always be good in wvw as well due to the nature of the mode, being able to stealth past zerg and hide in keeps or near camps is important.

As for thieves relying too much on stealth, there is the popular acrobatic s/d thief. Granted, its harder to play that build in wvw but its certainly viable.

Thieves are in a good place now. Not OP and not UP. Build diversity is still pretty limited, but that’s another issue entirely.

azerte.4365:

Thief is fine now when it comes to balance. A slight nerf to SA and a buff to other skills such as traps, venoms, …. would be nice, but other than that we’re good.
The only thing that makes thief ‘UP’ atm is the amount of bugs that plague the profession. They just need to fix those.

Why does SA need a Nerf? Thief healing and condition removal is already sub standard compared to other profs not to mention thief req a lot more active play. Just make other traits better no need for more nerfs.

I don’t know, last time I checked all builds were viable here and there but perhaps D/D(still I think it sees some use)/ Shortbow, S/D D/P are very good and common to see.
P/D is rarer, but is a strong and annoying condition build… P/P has been seeing more use after Ricochet buff too, I think it’s quite decent now(using it in some scenarios). So… I don’t think that thieves actually lack in diversity that much.
Oh and that thieves are UP well L2P.

Thief is fine.

/15char

Leolas.6273:

Thief is utterly UP in Build Diversity.

And role diversity.
And group support/need.

I pretty much only play thief. I’ve been through all the nerfs and I primarily use P/P (i know, i know, i’m a glutton for punishment). A lot of what people hate about thieves and a lot of what thieves hate about all the nerfs could potentially be resolved by revisiting the stealth mechanic.

Instead of total invisibility and thus untargetability, I’d trade it for some sort of “shadow” type of stealth. We would be visible and targetable but making the thief hard to hit (glancing blows). Through traits/boons/whatever, have this shadow ability provide some of the healing and cleansing it so badly needs or perhaps, in the spirit of the glancing blows, reducing duration or damage from conditions.

Lifestealer.4910:

Thieves are good roamers whether vsing good players or not. Not everyone has many spells at their disposal that they can throw around randomly praying it hits the thief in stealth. Thieves are top tier in pvp as well not because of stealth spam but because of the high spike dmg to survivability ratio. An engineer can be built to do almost the same if not more damage than a thief but their survivability goes complete poop if they do, where as thieves still have many options of defense in a full offensive build.

Stealth will always be good in wvw as well due to the nature of the mode, being able to stealth past zerg and hide in keeps or near camps is important.

As for thieves relying too much on stealth, there is the popular acrobatic s/d thief. Granted, its harder to play that build in wvw but its certainly viable.

Again, stealth is the justification for denying a profession any buffs. Because thief has stealth, they don’t need anything else. It is nice that you pointed out evade spam but it doesn’t work as well as blocking or protection which thief does not have. It also doesn’t provide info to any of these “many options” you are talking about because all of them lead back stealth.

Engi on the other hand has kits that provide a variety of support and other defensive/supportive abilities/traits that can be lethal to enemies if used properly. They barely have to worry about cooldowns too since kits can be switched out almost like Elementalist Attunements so much so they have the capability to spam as much if not more than thief.

Thief has venoms, blind AoE and stealth.

But they are good where they are because they have stealth, right? Be honest here.

the main problem on the thief class is the stealth. ppl cant handle it
another problem is thief design to solo play style and not group style

so thief has few build to play around (p/p got nice buff but still 1050 range is anet afraid from 1200 range)
but mainly solo
i dont play pve so cant comment on it

in wvw hardly you see ppl looking for thieves . and if for take doolies any calls can do this part. so ? 1v1 and roaming while meeting noobs or good players 1v1 or 1v20 and you die.
in pvp you cant contest (other do it better) so again 1v1 or helping out in 3v2

so we are not UP in solo play style but in group play style we need some love
anet tried venom share – have you heard group calling for venom thief? i didint
ricochet buff – still p/p has the lowest defenses (i have tried trapper p/p but still)
even now group asked for LB rangers – common?!!!!

solutions:
1. take the p/p set or d/d to more group play style – buff it up by dmg or by defenses or group support.
2. sb hits 5 target range 1200
3. ricochet hits 5 target 50% and it crit/bleed/cripple/blind whatever
4. change the double weapon skills d/d and p/p to more group support
5. pistol need more dmg
6. venom – ppl dont want them . so leave it to 1v1 p/d set. change traits
7. traps – arent useable even in some trapper runes build – more gimmicky
8. etc

vincecontix.1264:

azerte.4365:

Thief is fine now when it comes to balance. A slight nerf to SA and a buff to other skills such as traps, venoms, …. would be nice, but other than that we’re good.
The only thing that makes thief ‘UP’ atm is the amount of bugs that plague the profession. They just need to fix those.

Why does SA need a Nerf? Thief healing and condition removal is already sub standard compared to other profs not to mention thief req a lot more active play. Just make other traits better no need for more nerfs.

Allright here’s how I see it, this is my opinion so take it how you want. SA is too forgiving in the sense that it makes you think less about dodging certain skills and your positioning than say a trickery thief.
E.g. say your fighting a bomb kit engineer and he drops his Fire Bomb, if you run SA you can ‘eat’ that full fire bomb cause you’re about to CnD or BP+HS and clear all those seconds of burning and heal back that damage for a certain percent. Where as on say trickery, you need to either A) dodge out the field and disengage or take the damage and hope you can pressure him enough to make up for the damage you just took.

Mmnope.

Thieves are fine. Bugged, yes, and those need to be fixed, but otherwise, fine.

Okay, P/P needs a little help, but every profession has that one set…

hihey.1075:

Thief is not UP.

+1

azerte.4365:

vincecontix.1264:

azerte.4365:

Thief is fine now when it comes to balance. A slight nerf to SA and a buff to other skills such as traps, venoms, …. would be nice, but other than that we’re good.
The only thing that makes thief ‘UP’ atm is the amount of bugs that plague the profession. They just need to fix those.

Why does SA need a Nerf? Thief healing and condition removal is already sub standard compared to other profs not to mention thief req a lot more active play. Just make other traits better no need for more nerfs.

Allright here’s how I see it, this is my opinion so take it how you want. SA is too forgiving in the sense that it makes you think less about dodging certain skills and your positioning than say a trickery thief.
E.g. say your fighting a bomb kit engineer and he drops his Fire Bomb, if you run SA you can ‘eat’ that full fire bomb cause you’re about to CnD or BP+HS and clear all those seconds of burning and heal back that damage for a certain percent. Where as on say trickery, you need to either A) dodge out the field and disengage or take the damage and hope you can pressure him enough to make up for the damage you just took.

Trickery burst thief are for thieves with a phobia of judgement, why compare defensive and utility (on power) traitlines ? Of course if you choose defense you have to worry less just like every class.

Thief =/=glassy assasin when choosing SA the goal is to actually get in you become dependant on it. There is no perfect stealth you have to hit,use time and initiative, blow CD…stop trying to lure thieves into being assasins.

Trickery is still a condition traitline , you’ll see 6 6 2 more often in wvw then trickery users,conquest is the main reason you mainly see trickery zerk thieves. Their opinions are very biased when it comes to wvw.

btw…
If you guys want to document any changes feel free to do them at:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Change-Wish-List

Just follow the format.

azerte.4365:

vincecontix.1264:

azerte.4365:

Thief is fine now when it comes to balance. A slight nerf to SA and a buff to other skills such as traps, venoms, …. would be nice, but other than that we’re good.
The only thing that makes thief ‘UP’ atm is the amount of bugs that plague the profession. They just need to fix those.

Why does SA need a Nerf? Thief healing and condition removal is already sub standard compared to other profs not to mention thief req a lot more active play. Just make other traits better no need for more nerfs.

Allright here’s how I see it, this is my opinion so take it how you want. SA is too forgiving in the sense that it makes you think less about dodging certain skills and your positioning than say a trickery thief.
E.g. say your fighting a bomb kit engineer and he drops his Fire Bomb, if you run SA you can ‘eat’ that full fire bomb cause you’re about to CnD or BP+HS and clear all those seconds of burning and heal back that damage for a certain percent. Where as on say trickery, you need to either A) dodge out the field and disengage or take the damage and hope you can pressure him enough to make up for the damage you just took.

Yes so it a decision one has to make more damage or more survivability its nice to have options. If you are roaming around solo or in a small group in wvw SA is almost mandatory esp with all the aoe condition damage flying everywhere.

I also dont see anything wrong with it in its current form especially when you compare the thiefs healing capability to ele, engi, regen ranger, etc. While it can be harder running with out it, it always nice to have the option.