Guild Wars 2

I really don’t have much to say about the ranged nerfs, but I really think thief is the worst ranged profession right now. Thief is getting really kittenty to play with in WvW. If I use D/P someone whines about stealth, if I use D/D, someone whines about damage.

Then S/D has become utterly pointless in WvW because the other professions just beat it hands down, while eles/necros become even harder in it. Sigh. I do not look forward to the next patch.

Prep for consta-dodge nerf

Yep… Only a few more patches, and this profession will be known as ‘Thierf’

Its also a rly big problem in PvE content.
Bosses you cant fight in melee.

What can the thief do?
Shortbow:

• weak skill 1 if it does not bounce compared to other classes (most bosses are single target)
• only skill that deals damage has like the slowest projectile in game (cluster bomb)

Pistol:

• Unload: good damage but high initiative cost
• is there any ranged skill 1 that is worse then thief pistol? condition damage in PvE is the worst.

i dont know about ranged warriors… but i think thief deals the least ranged dps

Cluster bomb was ugly before and nothing changed … it’s good only for close combat… a full range cluster bomb takes years to land and it’s almost useless …
If you want to go ranged just P/P – SB with a ini regen build.
you have 2 weapon sets, don’t forget it.
problem solved.

Daendur.2357:

Cluster bomb was ugly before and nothing changed … it’s good only for close combat… a full range cluster bomb takes years to land and it’s almost useless …
If you want to go ranged just P/P – SB with a ini regen build.
you have 2 weapon sets, don’t forget it.
problem solved.

weapon swap gives you nothing …. its not like other classes where you have seperated cooldowns for each weaponset.

All you could do is to unload all your initiative and then change to short bow to do auto attacks that deals only a bit more damage.

edit: the 10% dmg boost when initiative is over 6 might make the swap even worse

Yeah tru dat. Our ranged attacks are like matrix slo-mo, Necros land them wells at range like a machine gun. Ah well its the price of Initiative – I’d rather have a cooldown on a faster attack I mean anyone can avoid these, in fcat I’d bet I could possibly fire and run to them quicker lol. Ah well.

crouze.3078:

Its also a rly big problem in PvE content.
Bosses you cant fight in melee.

What can the thief do?
Shortbow:

• weak skill 1 if it does not bounce compared to other classes (most bosses are single target)
• only skill that deals damage has like the slowest projectile in game (cluster bomb)

Pistol:

• Unload: good damage but high initiative cost
• is there any ranged skill 1 that is worse then thief pistol? condition damage in PvE is the worst.

i dont know about ranged warriors… but i think thief deals the least ranged dps

i dont see the problem with pve content, there are only 2 bosses where its more efficient to range than melee (dredge/grawl fractals), now in wvw its a serious problem leaving us all but helpless in defending or attacking keeps/towers

if you want to go ranged, why did you chose thief ? for the great 1200 range cluster bomb ? lol
gw2’s thief gives you a lot more chances than most of other games’ thieves…

crouze.3078:

…is there any ranged skill 1 that is worse then thief pistol? condition damage in PvE is the worst.

Engineer pistol #1 is worse, but we don’t generally use it for anything other than AFK boss fights.

lunyboy.8672:

crouze.3078:

…is there any ranged skill 1 that is worse then thief pistol? condition damage in PvE is the worst.

Engineer pistol #1 is worse, but we don’t generally use it for anything other than AFK boss fights.

When traited, your pistol can hit 5 times with 5 aoe explosions on top of that for a total on 20 or 30 attacks, 20 or 30 bleed stacks, and 20 or 30 procs of pure dmg (do the explosions hit 3 or 5 people?). That won’t happen often but the fact that it’s possible means it’s not a bad skill. Then you have pistol 2-5 which are all very good. On top of that you have flamethrower for power builds (that spike) vs things that don’t have ret, 1500 range nades (takes skill) that can single handedly stack 25 bleeds and 25 vuln., and the terribad for dps and insanely op for surviving Elixir gun. You can’t complain b/c 1 skill isn’t good when you aren’t traiting for it at all.

Daendur.2357:

if you want to go ranged, why did you chose thief ? for the great 1200 range cluster bomb ? lol
gw2’s thief gives you a lot more chances than most of other games’ thieves…

QFT! +1

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Daendur.2357:

if you want to go ranged, why did you chose thief ? for the great 1200 range cluster bomb ? lol
gw2’s thief gives you a lot more chances than most of other games’ thieves…

QFT! +1

There’s no reason a thief shouldn’t be able to operate at range. Have you seriously never seen thief/assassin characters killing from a distance with crossbows, etc.? It’s for this reason that I always thought WoW’s concept of the rogue was terrible.

That said, I’m not one of those people that’s furious about the Cluster Bomb nerf; the shortbow is still very usable, although I do think the way all the ricochet-type skills are designed leaves a little to be desired. I’m much more concerned with the state of MH Pistol.

I’m pretty sure that guardians are the weakest range profession. They can’t hit for crap at a distance and they have slow moving projectiles.

Trickshot doesn’t exactly move at light speed either.

Guardians are the weakest ranged profession unless you want to include reflections. The thief ranged weapons only really miss proper single target dps from pistol/pistol. The shortbow is a good mobile weapon with aoe. Pistol/dagger isn’t great but has its uses.

I’d happily keep the weapons we have now if we can get more missile defense.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I’m pretty sure that guardians are the weakest range profession. They can’t hit for crap at a distance and they have slow moving projectiles.

Guardian would be worse for ranged IF you only count the 1 skill. Thing is, they have smite. That ability hits about as hard as the hundred blades if all strikes connect. In pvp/wvw, not all strikes will connect but guard has enough ways to pin someone down to make it last long enough to do some serious damage. The also got staff which has the best tagging weapon in the game.

Ofc there’s retal and mass amounts of reflection/projectile block to make the difference in a ranged war.

AND U SHOULD BE THE WEAKEST RANGE PROFESION

Tell me, why u should be stronger in range fight, than ranger, necro, guardian, engi,ele, mesmer? Thiefs got the best melee dps, so to balance it u got the weakest range

Naustis.8510:

AND U SHOULD BE THE WEAKEST RANGE PROFESION

Tell me, why u should be stronger in range fight, than ranger, necro, guardian, engi,ele, mesmer? Thiefs got the best melee dps, so to balance it u got the weakest range

No they don’t. It seems like I have to repeat this ad nauseum on the forums, but this game isn’t built around the concept of ‘melee’ and ‘ranged’ classes. All classes are roughly offensively equal in all areas. The reason you think thieves have highest melee dps is because most of them spec glass cannon. The only differences between the classes are strategic in nature.

OP, I think you summed up the why in your post. With dps/burst so strong the community whines about, same with the near perma stealth. The class would be even more op if it could dominate from range as well.

Grove.2835:

OP, I think you summed up the why in your post. With dps/burst so strong the community whines about, same with the near perma stealth. The class would be even more op if it could dominate from range as well.

Dominate? I’m just looking for a decent ranged weapon where the autos don’t miss 75% of the time if the target is moving and at least have the ability to hit past 900 range. Pistol(s) is junk for anything but a pure tank/condition build and sbow has become nothing more than a finisher whore/flee weapon. Mid to long range combat no longer exists for thief. Since we are the softest class in the game (ele has nothing on us), being a melee only class REALLY hurts sometimes. Any new player trying thief is just a leech now until they learn how to melee. It’s quite sad.

Btw, people only complain OP!!! b/c they can’t anticipate anything. Instead of trying to learn, they complain. Against good players, thief is barely any different than a warrior (burst, mobility, and evades in place of pure tankiness). If thieves were nerfed down to the level where even the noobiest of players could handle them (almost there now that we’re 100% melee), then theif would be completely useless against anyone with even a remote bit of common sense.

Einlanzer.1627:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Daendur.2357:

if you want to go ranged, why did you chose thief ? for the great 1200 range cluster bomb ? lol
gw2’s thief gives you a lot more chances than most of other games’ thieves…

QFT! +1

There’s no reason a thief shouldn’t be able to operate at range. Have you seriously never seen thief/assassin characters killing from a distance with crossbows, etc.? It’s for this reason that I always thought WoW’s concept of the rogue was terrible.

That said, I’m not one of those people that’s furious about the Cluster Bomb nerf; the shortbow is still very usable, although I do think the way all the ricochet-type skills are designed leaves a little to be desired. I’m much more concerned with the state of MH Pistol.

Sorry but we can operate at range … the fact the our melee dps is much better than ranged one doesn’t imply you can’t go ranged.
2 of the 4 weapons we can use are ranged, we have a lot of 900 range skills, single target or aoe as we prefer.
As it should be, ranged is weaker than melee, since it keep you safer.
There are other professions stronger ? Yes, and that’s not a problem …

Personally I didn’t feel the nerf all that much. Speaking from a WvW perspective, the only time I used Clustor Bomb at 1200 was keep/tower sniping. Other times it was purely for point blank combo field blasting. SB is still fine as a mid range sustained AoE damage weapon (trick shot + sigil of fire) and mobility weapon.

Grove.2835:

OP, I think you summed up the why in your post. With dps/burst so strong the community whines about, same with the near perma stealth. The class would be even more op if it could dominate from range as well.

Oh my god, please stop posting stupid posts about thief DPS/Burst so strong. This is what the noobs in WvW think of thieves

- Always able to stealth AND 10 K burst damage at the same time.

HELL NO. We CANNOT do that. I repeat, WE CANNOT DO STEALTH AND 10 K BURST DAMAGE AT THE SAME TIME. We are NOT even the best DPS in melee classes (I cannot believe how many newbies think that thief has the best DPS. What a stupid joke…). The only thing that we have going for us is the stealth, which somehow draws so much fire that we get ourselves repeatedly nerfed because some newbies couldn’t handle it.

And we get nerfed for bow twice? FK this kitten. NO.

Personally I didn’t feel the nerf all that much. Speaking from a WvW perspective, the only time I used Clustor Bomb at 1200 was keep/tower sniping. Other times it was purely for point blank combo field blasting. SB is still fine as a mid range sustained AoE damage weapon (trick shot + sigil of fire) and mobility weapon.

My death rate has gone up. Doing damage from +300 range more is a big deal .

a) Ranged professions have an edge against ranged thieves now.
b) Less range means enemy zerg has higher HP when they come into melee contact.
c) Approaching gate closer means you get easily rushed by the enemy when they come out from the wall/door.

LoneWolfie.1852:

Doing damage from +300 range more is a big deal .

Are you really saying you used CB to 1200 range to do damage ?

The arrow is so slow that even if you don’t want you’ll avoid it… The only way to use it at maximum range and actually hit someone is during siege where the nerf is quite noticeable…
But when an enemy zerg is charging +300 range on a non-spammable skill is nothing…

Daendur.2357:

if you want to go ranged, why did you chose thief ? for the great 1200 range cluster bomb ? lol
gw2’s thief gives you a lot more chances than most of other games’ thieves…

Because espescially thiefs dont have need for 2 mellee sets in PvP as to how initiative works, espescially thieves need a reasonable range option to switch to when the situation requires it.

And SB is really underpowered since clusterbom only works in close mellee range, i really didnt understand the range nerf..

I dont see why you’re complaining. I made a build for pve and pvp that is p/p and d/d.

Craft your thief or reroll as a ranger. Not going to say my spec because it isnt that hard to make if you use your brain.

I also used to run a d/d p/p thief … now dropped for a d/d s/d-sb (solo – group) and it was good.

Most Zerg vs. Zerg fights draw a sort of battle line somewhere around 1200 range, and it wavers back and forth for most of the fight. It used to be that I could skirt the edge of the mass of aoe’s and generally drop a cluster bomb right where a big group of enemies was going to be in a few seconds, taking only moderate damage while dishing out some. Now I have to stand in the middle of aoe to engage, meaning I just die.

Thief Fun Fact: I now have no ability to hit an enemy attacking the SW gate of Garrison if I’m standing on the bridge directly on top of it!

randomfightfan.4091:

When traited, your pistol can hit 5 times with 5 aoe explosions on top of that for a total on 20 or 30 attacks, 20 or 30 bleed stacks, and 20 or 30 procs of pure dmg (do the explosions hit 3 or 5 people?). That won’t happen often but the fact that it’s possible means it’s not a bad skill. Then you have pistol 2-5 which are all very good. On top of that you have flamethrower for power builds (that spike) vs things that don’t have ret, 1500 range nades (takes skill) that can single handedly stack 25 bleeds and 25 vuln., and the terribad for dps and insanely op for surviving Elixir gun. You can’t complain b/c 1 skill isn’t good when you aren’t traiting for it at all.

What?? NOOOOOOOO!! Not even close lol Those aoe explosions? They dont do bleed stacks, they do the power damage. And the damage on a pistol? 118(Thats how much I got on my condition build). Maybe 200 if you got lots of power. So I still think explosive shot is the worst ranged auto attack in game.

And they were just comparing ranged skill 1, not the rest :P

Penguin.5197:

randomfightfan.4091:

When traited, your pistol can hit 5 times with 5 aoe explosions on top of that for a total on 20 or 30 attacks, 20 or 30 bleed stacks, and 20 or 30 procs of pure dmg (do the explosions hit 3 or 5 people?). That won’t happen often but the fact that it’s possible means it’s not a bad skill. Then you have pistol 2-5 which are all very good. On top of that you have flamethrower for power builds (that spike) vs things that don’t have ret, 1500 range nades (takes skill) that can single handedly stack 25 bleeds and 25 vuln., and the terribad for dps and insanely op for surviving Elixir gun. You can’t complain b/c 1 skill isn’t good when you aren’t traiting for it at all.

What?? NOOOOOOOO!! Not even close lol Those aoe explosions? They dont do bleed stacks, they do the power damage. And the damage on a pistol? 118(Thats how much I got on my condition build). Maybe 200 if you got lots of power. So I still think explosive shot is the worst ranged auto attack in game.

And they were just comparing ranged skill 1, not the rest :P

You’re stating damage numbers from your condi weapon and a condi build and you don’t even take into consideration the extra condi damage you do? Your calculations are even close… Not to mention the pistol hits twice MINIMUM. Pistol does hit low but it scales extremely well with condi (just like all their weapons). Thief pistols hit just as low with a tanky, condi build just like what you’re running. I’ve seen condi thieves crit for 102. That low dmg isn’t special.

Comparing skill 1 and nothing else is completely stupid. That’s like saying the other 4 skills don’t even exist. A weapon set is a set, not 1 skill. I don’t know why that’s even being discussed. But I guess since it’s the topic, I’ll reply. The advantage of engi pistol over thief is that engi pistol hits multiple targets in a line, explodes to hit more, and bleeds them all. It may only apply bleeds to the 1st target hit (I was mistaken earlier) but it still does power damage to all targets hit in the aoe. Pretty sure that’s just a bug as the description states different. If it’s just 1 target, thief pistol is better. If it’s 2, it’s a toss up. If it’s more, engi has the advantage.

The both only apply bleeds but now here’s the differences in all the other skills (the ones that really matter, esp on engi since they are constantly kit swapping). Engi gets burning, poison, confusion, and immobilize their condition weapon. If they go shield off hand, they get block, reflect, and line aoe daze. A thief gets a blind field and a 1/4s daze… everything else is useless. If you go p/d (which is sometimes better), it becomes a melee weapon set, without the blind field and daze but actually allows the player to stack a few more of the condition that is always cleansed first.

What happens when thief is out of initiative? They can’t use any of the pistol skills that aren’t worth using the initiative. What happens when an engi has all their cd’s on pistol used up? They swap to grenades to reapply another mass of conditions.

As far as P/D I 100% agree that it needs to be able to apply another damage condition without having to take along a poison. I reaalllyyy wish that #2 pistol would apply pois… the vuln change didn’t do anything to help the skill. Poison would help P/P as well as P/D and still not be OP… and stay thematic with the thief.

P/P… idk what to even do about it. If you change how pistol aa works then you mess up P/D… if you don’t P/P aa is bad. : /

As far as short bow… it’s fine in sPvP from what I’ve seen… PvE and WvW cluster bomb NEEDS to be 1,200. I understand they wanted shortbows to have a 900 range theme… but thief needs at least ONE 1,200 ranged attack… regardless of how slow moving it was. In WvW it’s very important to be 1,200 help reach siege and defend towers/keeps (siege doesn’t move… players stay on rams etc.). 900 won’t reach siege… and trying to defend a tower/keep with 900 range is very very risky with not enough reward. PvE there are situations where you don’t want to get in mele range… and 900 range is just a bit too short.

The AA is fine on it damage wise imo. You just don’t use SB vs a single target. It’s an aoe weapon.