Guild Wars 2

Hey Thieves,

I come here with a question. In the Mesmer forums I was claiming that Thieves have little issues dealing with Lich Form. However that was only my personal imrpession after playing Necro and being defeated by Thieves (mostly D/P build) while in Lich Form in PvP.

So from the view point of Thieves: Is it true that you can easily deal with Lich Form? Or do you have trouble? Is it more of a 50/50 thing? Or does Lich form usually destroy you?

TyPin.9860:

Hey Thieves,

I come here with a question. In the Mesmer forums I was claiming that Thieves have little issues dealing with Lich Form. However that was only my personal imrpession after playing Necro and being defeated by Thieves (mostly D/P build) while in Lich Form in PvP.

So from the view point of Thieves: Is it true that you can easily deal with Lich Form? Or do you have trouble? Is it more of a 50/50 thing? Or does Lich form usually destroy you?

if thief is not being focused by other players, lichform is usually not issue… that assuming thief has ini and maybe steal up

you can strafe, los, blind or just stealth up entire lich form duration~

now if you are focused/Ccd by other players that actually might be an issue, 1 immob + 1-2 AA (depends on build, procs) from lich is enough to kill a thief

If you don’t see it coming, yes. In PvP and small group fights this never happens as you are aware enough of the situation not to get hit. It sums up quite well why thief fares poorly in larger scale combat, if all your defenses are active instead of passive then all it takes to bypass them is for something to come from off camera to kill you.

As said above, a thief who is paying attention can easily deal with lich form. However, a lich form that catches you off guard can pretty much insta-kill you.

I’ve seen lich autos that crit for over 6k on a thief. Thats half of our total hp. Add the spinal shivers trait and air/fire runes, a lich auto has the potential to one shot a thief if it lands. Given that, a thief who doesn’t see the lich form or doesn’t have the initiative or cooldowns to get away will pretty much be guaranteed to die. Especially if the thief was below 50%.

Lich form AA scares me more than a Rangers Rapid Fire if I’m caught off-guard.

But yeah, as long as you see it coming, it’s not much of an issue.
Even on S/D you can quite easily evade through the entire Lich Form if you don’t do RNG dodges (or even with RNG dodges against a bad necro).
Stealths and Blinds from D/P make Liches almost a cakewalk though.

1v1, the thief should always win against lich form.
For a thief, it’s not so much the auto attack but the sheer amount of beef, which makes lich problematic. 1v1, you can just chew through those hp without receiving a single hit, no problem.

What makes lich scary is crossfire. Either from other players, while you are trying to get his huge hp bar down to zero, or from the lich himself, while you are engaging another target. If you are dropping the hammer on someone and suddenly receive a lich hit from behind, you may just be dead that instant.
Between blinds and evades, there’s just not much, the lich himself can do, if a thief is after him.

As an elite skill, lich form certainly is a game changer. Normally, you’d want to focus the squishy target and leave targets with huge hp pools for after the fact, but these 5k splash crits on auto attacks just can’t be ignored. Fortunately, he doesn’t have much in terms of boons or healing, so anything you do to him is bound to stick.

P/P Thief > Lich Form

Depends on the necro, but I find it much harder fighting lich form in WvW, especially if the necro knows how to play against a thief. Fully stacked with food, a friend of mine deals around 14k damage autos in lich form, and has tons of health. Not playing perfectly against that just leaves you dead on the ground.

DeceiverX.8361:

Depends on the necro, but I find it much harder fighting lich form in WvW, especially if the necro knows how to play against a thief. Fully stacked with food, a friend of mine deals around 14k damage autos in lich form, and has tons of health. Not playing perfectly against that just leaves you dead on the ground.

Whoa, I never played lich in WvW, but only in sPvP. 14k damage is quite impressive! How often does this happen, or this the once in a day super critical hit with all sigil procs?

I would give you the name of the skill used to combat lich, but it would just result in another nerf…

So ill give you some hints. It was nerfed because it was to stronk vs pve
It will kill you if you get immobilized without swap or stow set.
Its boon is useless. The CD is long and very few thieves use it.

Well, I get recked by Necros in Lich form, if I actually try to fight them that is. What I typically do, is disengage as soon as they pop Lich form, and then come back to kill them as soon as it runs out.

TyPin.9860:

DeceiverX.8361:

Depends on the necro, but I find it much harder fighting lich form in WvW, especially if the necro knows how to play against a thief. Fully stacked with food, a friend of mine deals around 14k damage autos in lich form, and has tons of health. Not playing perfectly against that just leaves you dead on the ground.

Whoa, I never played lich in WvW, but only in sPvP. 14k damage is quite impressive! How often does this happen, or this the once in a day super critical hit with all sigil procs?

They are crits, but with the right gear it’s not too difficult.
No, nothing particularly spectacular. Actually the skill has a higher damage coefficient than a backstab from behind. Lich form offers an absolutely absurd amount of damage that people just don’t really give it credit for.

The thing about us thieves is that at the first sight of a lich we can decide"oh i don’t think I can beat it." and just stealth ditch the place until the lich is gone. Thieves are cowards, but in a good way.

thunderfall.8095:

The thing about us thieves is that at the first sight of a lich we can decide"oh i don’t think I can beat it." and just stealth ditch the place until the lich is gone. Thieves are cowards, but in a good way.

The decision is not driven by cowardice but by tactical necessity.

“Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win”

~ Sun Tzu, The Art of War

Yeah lich is an interesting thing. If its targeting something else, I go for it. I work to interrupt any necro going to lich form. If its already in lich and its just me and them, Ill leave for a better situation and let that lich run out.

And that is the thing about lich, lich when used correctly isnt a problem. Just like Moa when used correctly isnt a problem.

Either in a 1v1 can mean certain death but if either are being used in a 1v1 you actually won because now they have a long CD on their elite. Once you get that part in your head," I forced them to lich when they shouldnt have" or “I forced them to moa when they shouldnt have”, even if you lose the fight, you know you have won.

nightblood.7910:

Yeah lich is an interesting thing. If its targeting something else, I go for it. I work to interrupt any necro going to lich form. If its already in lich and its just me and them, Ill leave for a better situation and let that lich run out.

And that is the thing about lich, lich when used correctly isnt a problem. Just like Moa when used correctly isnt a problem.

Either in a 1v1 can mean certain death but if either are being used in a 1v1 you actually won because now they have a long CD on their elite. Once you get that part in your head," I forced them to lich when they shouldnt have" or “I forced them to moa when they shouldnt have”, even if you lose the fight, you know you have won.

Others will argue that when they forced a Thief to go hide in stealth that they’ve won even if they lose the fight.

What do you say to that?

IF: Lich is targeting me:

Steal stability, run away

IF: Lich is targeting else

Steal stability, pummel.

I once was 1vs1 a mesmer on a point, 2s later i was dead, necro caught me of guard with lych AA.

How to lose 10k in 1s:
-Lych Auto Attack -6k
-Air/Fire procs – 2k/1k
-Spinal Shivers- 1k

Lich form is one of the reasons I run dagger storm over basi venom. Loch targets you aND you’re all “lol m8 I think not”.

As said above, I too run and hide when I’m the sole target of the lich. If not, Basilisk venom and Steal. It sometimes forces them to drop lich form to heal or pop DS.

I’ve also tried to just dodge and blind and running around the lich but in most cases this results in a dead teef and a very satisfied necro^^

I think it’s a 50/50 case, depending on how competent and focused the thief is.

have 15k-18k hp 3 hits from a glass necro and you’re dead.

No, we don’t have a problem with Lich Form. The stability you gain we will just steal away and then pop our stolen skill that fear you away while we stab you to death.

This being a 1v1 encounter that is ^^ In group settings we should focus down Necromancers before you get to do too much damage…

It’s hilarious that you went to one forum claiming something and then, afterwards, you came here to find out if it was true.