Guild Wars 2

found a bug that needs to be addressed and this is coming from a thief so you others thieves I don’t want to hear no QQing when a guardian has his aegis block thief can attack in stealth removed the aegis block and still not be unstealthed this also applies to all other block / invlun skills if the damage is not there stealth is not removed I think this should be fixed heres proof…

It has been like that since beta, it’s not a bug and it’s working as intended.

That being said, I do think that Aegis, invulns, blinds, blocks, and dodges should all cause revealed so that an enemy is rewarded for successfully countering a stealth attack.

that is a bug we will let anet decide lol you should not be able to use an attack from stealth and have it be blocked and not unstealthed

Because stealth ends when you deal damage, in most cases,
Caltrops and Choking Gas doesn’t unstealth you for instance.

Block, Dodge, Blind etc. prevents you from dealing damage,
and therefor doesn’t unstealth you.

but is it fair to remove a guardians block without even being seen or having him know your there

regardless can I get a response from a mod saying its not a bug because I would love to hear that explanation

Stealth breaks when you “Land a Hit”

Hitting an enemy with invul, block, or aegis should reveal you.

You have made the decision to attack and you must recognize the elements that are in play.

If you do not recognize and realize you are hitting with blind, or against aegis, or invul, you should be be punished. It was your own fault for not realizing it anyways.

Its a crutch for players who refuse to learn look at their own conditions or the enemys effects.

exactly lets hear it from a dev and not a thief

KillingFrenzy.7315:

exactly lets hear it from a dev and not a thief

Honestly, with your kittenty attitude I hope that no dev responds to you and this thread dies a horrible death (and devs don’t reply to threads in the thief forum anyway).

It’s not a bug, it has been like that since beta, it’s an intended aspect of stealth and unless they decide to change it to reward more counterplay it’s never going to change.

Calling it a bug and then acting like all Thieves are going to cry that it should stay despite already being told that I agree with you that it should be changed is just plain stupid.

This has got to be a bug … unless thief get’s to have all the exceptions in the game and never follow any rules and continue to be the garbage that it is …

Look, we even had a patch in January to handle things like this …

From the January 2013 Patch Notes:

• Sigil of Doom: The number of uses on this skill’s effect will now decrease if an attack lands or if the attack is negated by Blind, Block, Evade, Obstructed, or Invulnerable.
• Sigil of Intelligence: The number of uses on this skill’s effect will now decrease if an attack lands or if the attack is negated by Blind, Block, Evade, Obstructed, or Invulnerable.
• Sigil of Leeching: The number of uses on this skill’s effect will now decrease if an attack lands or if the attack is negated by Blind, Block, Evade, Obstructed, or Invulnerable.
• Arcane Power: The number of uses on this skill’s effect will now decrease if an attack lands or if the attack is negated by Blind, Block, Evade, Obstructed, or Invulnerable.
• Incendiary Ammo: The number of uses on this skill’s effect will now decrease if an attack lands or if the attack is negated by Blind, Block, Evade, Obstructed, or Invulnerable.
• Sharpening Stone: The number of uses on this skill’s effect will now decrease if an attack lands or if the attack is negated by Blind, Block, Evade, Obstructed, or Invulnerable.
• Opening Strikes: The number of uses on this skill’s effect will now decrease if an attack lands or if the attack is negated by Blind, Block, Evade, Obstructed, or Invulnerable.
• Spider Venom: The number of uses on this skill’s effect will now decrease if an attack lands or if the attack is negated by Blind, Block, Evade, Obstructed, or Invulnerable.
• Devourer Venom: The number of uses on this skill’s effect will now decrease if an attack lands or if the attack is negated by Blind, Block, Evade, Obstructed, or Invulnerable.
• Ice Drake Venom: The number of uses on this skill’s effect will now decrease if an attack lands or if the attack is negated by Blind, Block, Evade, Obstructed, or Invulnerable.
• Skale Venom: The number of uses on this skill’s effect will now decrease if an attack lands or if the attack is negated by Blind, Block, Evade, Obstructed, or Invulnerable.
• Basilisk Venom: The number of uses on this skill’s effect will now decrease if an attack lands or if the attack is negated by Blind, Block, Evade, Obstructed, or Invulnerable.
• Assassin’s Signet: The number of uses on this skill’s effect will now decrease if an attack lands or if the attack is negated by Blind, Block, Evade, Obstructed, or Invulnerable.

Incurafy.6329:

KillingFrenzy.7315:

exactly lets hear it from a dev and not a thief

Honestly, with your kittenty attitude I hope that no dev responds to you and this thread dies a horrible death (and devs don’t reply to threads in the thief forum anyway).

It’s not a bug, it has been like that since beta, it’s an intended aspect of stealth and unless they decide to change it to reward more counterplay it’s never going to change.

Calling it a bug and then acting like all Thieves are going to cry that it should stay despite already being told that I agree with you that it should be changed is just plain stupid.

Whether its a bug or not. Its a crutch.

Stealth is a powerful tool. Attacking from it, not realizing what your attacking, isnt an excuse to suddenly give you back stealth should the attack fail.

I use cooldowns on invul people all day long and i dont see them reseting. Why should stealth?

Incurafy.6329:

KillingFrenzy.7315:

exactly lets hear it from a dev and not a thief

Honestly, with your kittenty attitude I hope that no dev responds to you and this thread dies a horrible death (and devs don’t reply to threads in the thief forum anyway).

It’s not a bug, it has been like that since beta, it’s an intended aspect of stealth and unless they decide to change it to reward more counterplay it’s never going to change.

Calling it a bug and then acting like all Thieves are going to cry that it should stay despite already being told that I agree with you that it should be changed is just plain stupid.

That’s not true. Most thieves do think it should stay. Here’s proof:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Remove-stealth-on-miss-evade-block-1/first

Guys, look at the list of skills that lose a stack (some of them have only one stack … like stealth) even if the attack is negated by Blind, Block, Evade, Obstructed, or Invulnerable.

I don’t think there should even be an argument on this given that evidence.

What the kitten… did the forum population forget how to read since I went to bed? I’VE STATED SEVERAL TIMES THAT I AGREE. READ.

Bhagwad: one thread where a dozen Thieves on it argued against MISS and blocks/etc removing stealth is not proof that all thieves oppose a change.

I’m done with this thread, it’s clear that the hilarious support coming from a particular Ehmry Bay guild is all biased as kitten and will not listen to anything that they’re being told.

Good day.

Incurafy.6329:

It has been like that since beta, it’s not a bug and it’s working as intended.

That being said, I do think that Aegis, invulns, blinds, blocks, and dodges should all cause revealed so that an enemy is rewarded for successfully countering a stealth attack.

Lol I play thief as well and as much as I would love for this to stay. I would be mad if I just wasted an aegis on a thief and he didn’t reveal. Also I plan on using the aegis from Runes of Lyssa to counter a thieves steal with baslisk, and I would want the thief to be revealed.

Aegis is too easy to put up.

If you are having problems against thieves on a guardian I think you should duel your guildies in the mists.

I too feel it’s reasonable that a thief is destealthed on situations similar to the one depicted in the video. It is a case of having one’s cake and eating it too. Having this work the way it does now greatly benefits my fraudulent thief and allows me to be sloppier in my play without consequences.

In a similar vien, it is also worth mentioning that you can HS someone through BP and still stealth even though you damaged them. This is inconsistent with how other abilities interact with stealth combos, such as engineers using acid bomb in a smoke field. A different rule is applied to the engineer’s case than in the thief’s case.

Some may advocate that the thief didn’t “hit”, and therefore the thief should not be revealed. However, I would then argue that the guardian was not “hit”, and therefore should not lose his aegis.

I don’t think applying a CD to skills like BS is a good idea, but it should apply the revealed debuff when any character comes out of stealth in such a manner, thief or otherwise.

Yamsandjams.3267:

In a similar vien, it is also worth mentioning that you can HS someone through BP and still stealth even though you damaged them. This is inconsistent with how other abilities interact with stealth combos, such as engineers using acid bomb in a smoke field. A different rule is applied to the engineer’s case than in the thief’s case.

Actually thats exactly how it works with all other leap finishers, you land the finisher (damage and all) you then get the stealth.

The one exception is engineers leap finisher “Jump Shot” because it applies it after the first hit rather than after the second meaning you get stealth at the start of the jump and if you land and damage someone it reveals you.

In the same way with acid bomb you get the stealth after the damage however you’ve then just put a damaging pool down, one tick from that on something and you get revealed.

Its not thieves using a different rule, its thieves using skills designed to function with those rules and understanding how they work (aka not trying to stealth with a multi hit skill)

Jinks.2057:

Aegis is too easy to put up.

Guardian has 2 skills that can apply Aegis, 1 automatic at 50% health from a trait, and 1 that only works if they revive someone. Retreat has a 60s cooldown, Courage has a 90s cooldown for an on-demand Aegis, 40s/30s for an effectively random one.
That’s hardly easy to put up.

Dasorine.1964:

In the same way with acid bomb you get the stealth after the damage however you’ve then just put a damaging pool down, one tick from that on something and you get revealed.

Also, every Blast finisher deals the damage after the effect, unlike Leaps, so if you hit something with the Blast you’ll be Revealed.

Dasorine.1964:

Yamsandjams.3267:

In a similar vien, it is also worth mentioning that you can HS someone through BP and still stealth even though you damaged them. This is inconsistent with how other abilities interact with stealth combos, such as engineers using acid bomb in a smoke field. A different rule is applied to the engineer’s case than in the thief’s case.

Actually thats exactly how it works with all other leap finishers, you land the finisher (damage and all) you then get the stealth.

The one exception is engineers leap finisher “Jump Shot” because it applies it after the first hit rather than after the second meaning you get stealth at the start of the jump and if you land and damage someone it reveals you.

In the same way with acid bomb you get the stealth after the damage however you’ve then just put a damaging pool down, one tick from that on something and you get revealed.

That’s true. I suppose this is a more engineer-related issue.

Although, will a thief still enter stealth if they point-blank someone with a cluster bomb in a smoke field? I’m not sure if it for some reason works differently with a blast finisher or not.

How the hell can someone know when an invisible enemy is going to stab them in the back and block it? You’d need some super sixth sense for that.

Iove.3902:

How the hell can someone know when an invisible enemy is going to stab them in the back and block it? You’d need some super sixth sense for that.

Because it’s a magical effect that says “kitten you” to the next attempt to harm the individual?
While we’re on realism arguments, how do you dodge an explosion without actually leaving its radius?

The point isn’t knowing when they stab you, it’s that they can stab you, removing your aegis, their blind, etc. and you are still apparently oblivious to them (i.e. they stay stealthed).

This does not work similar to other abilities that we had a big patch for in January …

From the January 2013 Patch Notes:

• Sigil of Doom: The number of uses on this skill’s effect will now decrease if an attack lands or if the attack is negated by Blind, Block, Evade, Obstructed, or Invulnerable.
• Sigil of Intelligence: The number of uses on this skill’s effect will now decrease if an attack lands or if the attack is negated by Blind, Block, Evade, Obstructed, or Invulnerable.
• Sigil of Leeching: The number of uses on this skill’s effect will now decrease if an attack lands or if the attack is negated by Blind, Block, Evade, Obstructed, or Invulnerable.
• Arcane Power: The number of uses on this skill’s effect will now decrease if an attack lands or if the attack is negated by Blind, Block, Evade, Obstructed, or Invulnerable.
• Incendiary Ammo: The number of uses on this skill’s effect will now decrease if an attack lands or if the attack is negated by Blind, Block, Evade, Obstructed, or Invulnerable.
• Sharpening Stone: The number of uses on this skill’s effect will now decrease if an attack lands or if the attack is negated by Blind, Block, Evade, Obstructed, or Invulnerable.
• Opening Strikes: The number of uses on this skill’s effect will now decrease if an attack lands or if the attack is negated by Blind, Block, Evade, Obstructed, or Invulnerable.
• Spider Venom: The number of uses on this skill’s effect will now decrease if an attack lands or if the attack is negated by Blind, Block, Evade, Obstructed, or Invulnerable.
• Devourer Venom: The number of uses on this skill’s effect will now decrease if an attack lands or if the attack is negated by Blind, Block, Evade, Obstructed, or Invulnerable.
• Ice Drake Venom: The number of uses on this skill’s effect will now decrease if an attack lands or if the attack is negated by Blind, Block, Evade, Obstructed, or Invulnerable.
• Skale Venom: The number of uses on this skill’s effect will now decrease if an attack lands or if the attack is negated by Blind, Block, Evade, Obstructed, or Invulnerable.
• Basilisk Venom: The number of uses on this skill’s effect will now decrease if an attack lands or if the attack is negated by Blind, Block, Evade, Obstructed, or Invulnerable.
• Assassin’s Signet: The number of uses on this skill’s effect will now decrease if an attack lands or if the attack is negated by Blind, Block, Evade, Obstructed, or Invulnerable.

It’s been like this forever and I don’t really think they will change it (only for “blocks”, at maximum).

stealth is ONLY removed by owner when giving direct dmg to another player ….npc….or mob/target. this is the way it is. get over it. stealth would be useless if u attacked air and it ended. even as is less than 50% of BS hits….u wanna make it 10%?

@ASOMAL perhaps….but thieves rarely beat good guardians now if at all…..that would just make it a lock,.

Yamsandjams.3267:

Dasorine.1964:

Yamsandjams.3267:

In a similar vien, it is also worth mentioning that you can HS someone through BP and still stealth even though you damaged them. This is inconsistent with how other abilities interact with stealth combos, such as engineers using acid bomb in a smoke field. A different rule is applied to the engineer’s case than in the thief’s case.

Actually thats exactly how it works with all other leap finishers, you land the finisher (damage and all) you then get the stealth.

The one exception is engineers leap finisher “Jump Shot” because it applies it after the first hit rather than after the second meaning you get stealth at the start of the jump and if you land and damage someone it reveals you.

In the same way with acid bomb you get the stealth after the damage however you’ve then just put a damaging pool down, one tick from that on something and you get revealed.

That’s true. I suppose this is a more engineer-related issue.

Although, will a thief still enter stealth if they point-blank someone with a cluster bomb in a smoke field? I’m not sure if it for some reason works differently with a blast finisher or not.

Not with cluster bomb no, you’d think it would for the same reason leap finishers do but only some blast finishers would work (for example in this case engineers with shockwave/turret detonation/thumper turret overcharge will work)

Possibly its ranged blast vs pbaoe blasts or such, ranged ones being more “support” than “zomg rush in and blast em ina face” but I’d have to test more which is hard as only really engi and thieves can test solo and thieves only have that 1 blast finisher.

Travlane.5948:

@ASOMAL perhaps….but thieves rarely beat good guardians now if at all…..that would just make it a lock,.

That’s why I said only blocks like Aegis or warr shield 5 (for skillful play purpose). Anything else would be stupid, honestly…

“Dodge” – “GG, 4 seconds reveal for free”

well every class has blocks…..ever class other than thief. so even an aegis/block would lock thieves bs to less than 10% success. u really cant differentiate aegis from skill blocks…..im almost positive they are programmed eh same.

a credible thread? lol I could care less

KillingFrenzy.7315:

a credible thread? lol I could care less

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stealth

Attacking breaks stealth; however, if the player uses an attack that missed, was blocked or evaded, they will not break stealth. Abilities that do not deal direct damage (like Choking Gas, Caltrops, or the Traps which do not deal direct damage) will not break stealth, even though they apply damaging conditions. Shadowstep or Teleport abilities will not break stealth; however, they will cause the transparent stealth effect on the player to end.

Now go back to your D/D elementalist.

Since this thread was about a bugfix rather than a nerf.

shadowstep breaks stealth…idk y….but not shadow return or any of the eothers…..but yeah…what he said go back to ur spam ele :P

I understand it on the warrior blocks and eng blocks but it shouldn’t remove a block buff is my point it can say block block block but it shouldn’t remove the block buff

and wiki is not official statements from anet it is from players please find me a anet post saying that until then that means nothing

if it wont remove the buff……then aegis = 100% protection from stealth? :p i see ur point but also dont forget…u screw with stealth …..thieves are removed from the game. period. i feel you i really do….and i see ur point. but cant make thieves any weaker….they go down in seconds as is. :P

Travlane.5948:

shadowstep breaks stealth…idk y….but not shadow return or any of the eothers

Visual bug as far as I’m concerned. :p

Thank You! OP for confirming that Thief Perma-Stealth is Alive and Well after the “patch”.

That lays to rest the long in-denial able argument that Perma-Stealth was “patched”

Obviously,

It is not a “bug”; I always believe that the “patch” was a mockery to Perma-stealth.

Then aegis would DESTROY thieves, once you see them go stealth > aegis > block > thief revealed for 4 secs > CC > dead thief.

Of course, an experienced thief can get out of any battle alive as long as they dont get kitteny or are just good.

Kaizer.7135:

Then aegis would DESTROY thieves, once you see them go stealth > aegis > block > thief revealed for 4 secs > CC > dead thief.

Of course, an experienced thief can get out of any battle alive as long as they dont get kitteny or are just good.

So wait out stealth, hit immediately after it ends to break Aegis, restealth, try again.
Or play P/D and not care since you’ll still hit 3/4 with Sneak Attack.

Burnfall.9573:

Thank You! OP for confirming that Thief Perma-Stealth is Alive and Well after the “patch”.

That lays to rest the long in-denial able argument that Perma-Stealth was “patched”

Obviously,

It is not a “bug”; I always believe that the “patch” was a mockery to Perma-stealth.

This post gave me a perma-headache.

KillingFrenzy.7315:

a credible thread? lol I could care less

So you want direct Developer input/response in a non-credible thread? Fantastic plan, I can’t see how it could possibly fail.

Sebrent.3625:

I don’t care whether KillingFrenzy or any of you can be Civil … that list I showed shows that this game is supposed to reward/punish you for good/bad play. Backstabbing someone who is blocking/dodging/has_aegis/etc. is bad play and you should be punished for it by being revealed.

I can’t help but notice people completely glazing past the list …

From the January 2013 Patch Notes:

My first toon was a thief, and after that I made a guardian…
I couldnt understand why guardians would not get their VoJ removed when something blocked/dodged/invul the attack. Even on GS auto-attack you get a second chance to hit something with the third attack if you miss!!
While on my thief, if I popped a skill on the wrong time, it goes to waste…

Stealth should not be removed on passive blocks/invuls, it should not be removed on misses/evadeds… on active blocks, yes… but I think thats not possible to distinct atm…

Oh yea… if you want to get on it…
Make skills cost (lass than) half initiative when they miss/block/invul…
Seems all other classes I play get less than half a CD when they screw something…

In all honesty ppl are forgetting thieves pay for BS upfront.

Meaning the initiative or LONG cd to get into stealth. If you block cd…there goes half of his init….

You don’t wanna talk about that though

This is one of the noob friendly features of thief that needs to be fixed.
A working solution would be to have a small cl on all stealth attacks, perhaps 5 seconds. Thief should be all about cunning and careful precision, not ridiculous spam.

to the guys defending this feature – how would you like it if RTL didn’t go on cooldown if it was blocked or missed in the same manner??

Swim.6830:

to the guys defending this feature – how would you like it if RTL didn’t go on cooldown if it was blocked or missed in the same manner??

Laugh as I constantly keep him blinded and dazed with my D/P set up. Honestly if an ele is constantly trying to RTL me, they’re going to find out just how quickly their health bar starts going down.

multani.1452:

Swim.6830:

to the guys defending this feature – how would you like it if RTL didn’t go on cooldown if it was blocked or missed in the same manner??

Laugh as I constantly keep him blinded and dazed with my D/P set up. Honestly if an ele is constantly trying to RTL me, they’re going to find out just how quickly their health bar starts going down.

Goodie. This should be implemented right away then to balance things out. Maybe it should be like this on all abilities on all classes.

Swim.6830:

to the guys defending this feature – how would you like it if RTL didn’t go on cooldown if it was blocked or missed in the same manner??

Thats a terrible comparison… If you miss RTL you still get the gap-closer/opener (most even use it to miss, thats why the changes). BS (or any stealth attack) dont give thiefs anything if they miss and need to be performed on a limited time (3-4 secs after sucessful stealth)…
Want a better comparison?
– How much CD and adrenaline costs a missed eviscerate? do you get the leap if you miss?
– How many times can you try to hit (burn) someone with FoJ before it consumes its charge?
– If you miss your first strike do you still have “opening strike” on the next one? Even if that Swop just got you 1500 closer to target?

The list goes on…

lLobo.7960:

Swim.6830:

to the guys defending this feature – how would you like it if RTL didn’t go on cooldown if it was blocked or missed in the same manner??

Thats a terrible comparison… If you miss RTL you still get the gap-closer/opener (most even use it to miss, thats why the changes). BS (or any stealth attack) dont give thiefs anything if they miss and need to be performed on a limited time (3-4 secs after sucessful stealth)…
Want a better comparison?
– How much CD and adrenaline costs a missed eviscerate? do you get the leap if you miss?
– How many times can you try to hit (burn) someone with FoJ before it consumes its charge?
– If you miss your first strike do you still have “opening strike” on the next one? Even if that Swop just got you 1500 closer to target?

The list goes on…

yes, while it doesn’t give anything, the thief is still stealthed which is a big plus. Also using RTL with no target is not the same as missing one or having one blocked. But if you feel RTL is giving me something I’ll change my example with Firegrab, or any non gap-closing ability.

Your thread is misleading.

The title should be “Thief getting blocked in stealth and not getting revealed”

Which is how the game has been since beta. I prefer it this way. As a warrior if you wait until like 2s after a thief stealth and then hit the block button, you will cause them to come our of stealth. Then dodge the cnd or cc them to get some hits in.

Whenever I play as a non thief, stealth has never been a problem for me.

L2p.