Guild Wars 2

Is it normal i lose 75%/85% of my health in less then 3 seconds from this class ? I thought GW was known about having balanced PvP but this seems less in GW2. I’m an support elementalist and even if i use my blinds, heals, roots and slows you can’t shake this class of you. Not too even speak about how much survivability stealth gives. I’m not an hardcore PvP’er since I do it once in awhile but sure this class gives me a feeling not to even bother with PvP.

Send feedback to anet. No it’s not balanced.

I’m a Thief and agree it is not balanced however if burst is toned down then something else needs to be buffed because that’s our main survival, to dps or to die.

No it’s not balanced. Neither is a GC Warrior who crits for 17k or 100b you to death. Neither is a GC Power Bow Ranger who can Rapid Fire you to death. Neither is a Mesmer who can just 1shot anyone that is also GC spec. Neither is a GC Necro with daggers. Neither is a 100nades Engi or Rifle Burst Engi. etc etc

You might wanna report all this classes while you’re at it if you’re going to complain.

tl;dr not a class issue just a game issue with stat distribution.

Yes it is normal for any Glass canon build.
Successful burst = kill
Failed burst = death

There is not much balance centered on 1v1, its more on group play.

You’re an elementalist, you should have one of the best escape/mobility abilities of any profession. Something a lot of people complain about. With that, you should easily be able to recover and come back.

With all the combos said above, there is one difference between all of them and the Thief burst: Predictability.

Clones running to you? > Prepare a defensive move.
Bull Rush / Charge of any kind? > Prepare a defensive move.
Rangers using Quickness? > Prepare a defensive move.
Necro installing wells? > Well…. just don’t stand in there, you don’t even need to ‘dodge’ or ‘block’ that.
Necro attempting to immobilize you? > They raise their arms begging you to dodge their attack > Dodge.
Engi using magnet / throwing net on you? > Dodge. (The Rifle burst is probably the closest thing to the unpredictability of a Thief burst)

You have a fair amount of time to react to most of things.

When a decent Thief looks to burst you down he’ll check if you have eventual counter moves such as Block, since you must set it up before an engage as Steal-Mug-BVenom is pretty much instant (Then CnD and Backstab if no escape at all). Superior mind-games will get through this, sometimes requiring you to engage with something that has 1200 range for the sake of safety. Not all the Thieves are killhungry to the point of being braindead, many of them are aware of all that.

3 sec and you didn’t break out of it?
a lot of classes can kill you in 3sec. they all OP then?

Yes it is generally speaking, for better or worse.
It is not Thief exclusive though we are certainly good at doing so.
You’re build may be your biggest issue atm, or a lack of team support to protect you.
I suggest heading to the ele forums and seeing what they recommend you play in PvP at least to get a good handle of what you’re doing in pvp.
Joining a pvp oriented guild may also be of value to you, don’t be discouraged.

yes it is normal , since you can mentain regeneration almost non stop
you got heals /boons / on weapon skills
you got 2 invulnerability skills /1 teleport
your spells have area of effect target, so you don’t have to target the thief to chill /burn /cripple /knock him down/dps him
But you have might chosen wrong clas OP, elementalist is not easy to play , you must time /combo your skills
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jdJRcxtDYU

Unfortunately if you roll as support your going to go down fast to burst builds, thief or otherwise.

A thief will have a better chance at retreating afterwards compared to the other burst builds but they get advantages elsewhere.

bettadenu.5483:

I’m a Thief and agree it is not balanced however if burst is toned down then something else needs to be buffed because that’s our main survival, to dps or to die.

you can fix that from your traits and armors, if you decide to go for full glas cannon you can output high dps. If you go for tanky build you will backstab for 4 k and survive other’s bursts

Iove.3902:

No it’s not balanced. Neither is a GC Warrior who crits for 17k or 100b you to death. Neither is a GC Power Bow Ranger who can Rapid Fire you to death. Neither is a Mesmer who can just 1shot anyone that is also GC spec. Neither is a GC Necro with daggers. Neither is a 100nades Engi or Rifle Burst Engi. etc etc

You might wanna report all this classes while you’re at it if you’re going to complain.

tl;dr not a class issue just a game issue with stat distribution.

yet you can see those other classes and avoid them. not so with thieves.

MrForz.1953:

With all the combos said above, there is one difference between all of them and the Thief burst: Predictability.

Clones running to you? > Prepare a defensive move.
Bull Rush / Charge of any kind? > Prepare a defensive move.
Rangers using Quickness? > Prepare a defensive move.
Necro installing wells? > Well…. just don’t stand in there, you don’t even need to ‘dodge’ or ‘block’ that.
Necro attempting to immobilize you? > They raise their arms begging you to dodge their attack > Dodge.
Engi using magnet / throwing net on you? > Dodge. (The Rifle burst is probably the closest thing to the unpredictability of a Thief burst)

You have a fair amount of time to react to most of things.

When a decent Thief looks to burst you down he’ll check if you have eventual counter moves such as Block, since you must set it up before an engage as Steal-Mug-BVenom is pretty much instant (Then CnD and Backstab if no escape at all). Superior mind-games will get through this, sometimes requiring you to engage with something that has 1200 range for the sake of safety. Not all the Thieves are killhungry to the point of being braindead, many of them are aware of all that.

Ha-ha, so like you:
Thieves using Assasin’s Signet? > Prepare a defensive move.
Thieves using (Any) Venom? > Prepare a defensive move.
Thieves rising their right arm? > Prepare a defensive move.

Yeah, it’s easy – easy like your cases, really ^^

Columba.9730:

Iove.3902:

No it’s not balanced. Neither is a GC Warrior who crits for 17k or 100b you to death. Neither is a GC Power Bow Ranger who can Rapid Fire you to death. Neither is a Mesmer who can just 1shot anyone that is also GC spec. Neither is a GC Necro with daggers. Neither is a 100nades Engi or Rifle Burst Engi. etc etc

You might wanna report all this classes while you’re at it if you’re going to complain.

tl;dr not a class issue just a game issue with stat distribution.

yet you can see those other classes and avoid them. not so with thieves.

You should just learn how to counter stealth. Im a mesmer and the class I love to fight the most is thief because it is a challenge to win from a good thief, not those glass cannons they die before they can even land BS on me. The problem is not with stealth, but with you.

Kamata.5762:

Columba.9730:

Iove.3902:

No it’s not balanced. Neither is a GC Warrior who crits for 17k or 100b you to death. Neither is a GC Power Bow Ranger who can Rapid Fire you to death. Neither is a Mesmer who can just 1shot anyone that is also GC spec. Neither is a GC Necro with daggers. Neither is a 100nades Engi or Rifle Burst Engi. etc etc

You might wanna report all this classes while you’re at it if you’re going to complain.

tl;dr not a class issue just a game issue with stat distribution.

yet you can see those other classes and avoid them. not so with thieves.

You should just learn how to counter stealth. Im a mesmer and the class I love to fight the most is thief because it is a challenge to win from a good thief, not those glass cannons they die before they can even land BS on me. The problem is not with stealth, but with you.

So very well said Kamata!

SilverWF.4789:

Ha-ha, so like you:
Thieves using Assasin’s Signet? > Prepare a defensive move.
Thieves using (Any) Venom? > Prepare a defensive move.
Thieves rising their right arm? > Prepare a defensive move.

Yeah, it’s easy – easy like your cases, really ^^

Noone’s dumb enough to use Assassin’s Signet, and you have 30s to apply the Basilisk Venom giving you plenty of room to check for an engage. And… Tell me how you’re actually seeing a Steal coming like all the other cases I mentioned, this one coming from a decent Thief is only predictable… 50% of the time? Due to its instant cast nature? Don’t tell me I’m actually teaching you how to play one, baddie.

Besides it’s not even a complaint but a comment, I suppose that I get off really easy since I main an Engineer overprepared to greet the cheese with open arms. The results of these mechanics can be seen on most of the playerbase, and leads to why there are complaints, why the WvW grounds are infested by that, and why there are 850 sup3r0wn4g3 Thief PvP Fragm0v1es featuring 1v5+ everyday, something that you can do blindfolded with both hands bound when facing cattle due to the nature of the mechanisms. I don’t know if the hypocrisy or the refusal for most of Thieves to make efforts is considered laughable or disgusting.

Don’t mind Columba.9730. I used to be in the same guild, and he hates thieves with a passion. :P

Once the culling is removed, I think things will improve overall.

I think things will improve some with culling … but Steal hits extremely hard for being an instant cast with 0 animation time to allow for a reaction. If you leapt at the person, disappeared in a cloud of smoke and reappared 0.5 sec later, etc. I wouldn’t be bothered by it.

Backstab is similar. I would like to at least have a sound that gives me 0.5 sec to react with a dodge roll.

As it stands, avoiding these attacks is largely guesswork.

Sebrent.3625:

I think things will improve some with culling … but Steal hits extremely hard for being an instant cast with 0 animation time to allow for a reaction. If you leapt at the person, disappeared in a cloud of smoke and reappared 0.5 sec later, etc. I wouldn’t be bothered by it.

Backstab is similar. I would like to at least have a sound that gives me 0.5 sec to react with a dodge roll.

As it stands, avoiding these attacks is largely guesswork.

For steal to hit hard it requires traiting and then it also has a hefty cooldown and would prevent a backstab after unless they were not initially stealthed (in which case they where vulnerable and visible at the start unless for culling reasons)

Openers are generally undodgable its dealing with them afterwards that becomes important, as even if they can slip into invisibility you should still know they are there (unless they’ve run away in which case there not killing you)

MrForz.1953:

SilverWF.4789:

Ha-ha, so like you:
Thieves using Assasin’s Signet? > Prepare a defensive move.
Thieves using (Any) Venom? > Prepare a defensive move.
Thieves rising their right arm? > Prepare a defensive move.

Yeah, it’s easy – easy like your cases, really ^^

Noone’s dumb enough to use Assassin’s Signet, and you have 30s to apply the Basilisk Venom giving you plenty of room to check for an engage. And… Tell me how you’re actually seeing a Steal coming like all the other cases I mentioned, this one coming from a decent Thief is only predictable… 50% of the time? Due to its instant cast nature? Don’t tell me I’m actually teaching you how to play one, baddie.

Um Assassin’s Signet is one of the staples for D/P thieves to burst you with.
The other options generally being Haste, blinding powder and Signet of Shadows with Ambush trap sometimes thrown into the mix. Wot are you talking about Willis?
To be honest, you’ll generally know from their weapon, and I’m quite serious about this. Thieves will rarely steal with the bow unless it’s specifically to finish someone off or their desperate, they don’t get the most mileage out of doing otherwise (generally).
So what you’ll often see is if they’re using a bow, they aren’t using Steal, it’s a matter of efficiency.
They’ll switch to daggers for instance and then Steal+HS, or Steal+ CnD, or Steal+ whatever because
1.) A fair amount get a bonus on dmg for you being conditioned and steal applies it
2.) It closes a gap which they’ll want done for their melee weapon.
3.) Can cause a nice spike in tandem with whatever melee skill they are using whether HS or CnD, or Pistol whip or Flanking strike or even Shadow strike.
D/P applies blind but blind is quickly removed so they can’t depend on it for their 10% dmg increase if they are running it. So what will they pop? Steal to maximize their damage. The need of efficiency generally reveals when Steal will be popped.
This is not in any way to say that Steal itself is some skill you see and dodge, it is not. It’s one that’s essentially developed it’s own meta-patterns that lead to it being predictable or able to adapt immediately to (stun breaks). Which is why it is not uncommon to dodge a Steal because how it is generally used. For instance if they peg you with a bow the whole time, and once you hit 50% switch to Dagger? It’s HS + Steal coming your way to insta remove you from 50% to dead. 99% of the time unless they are not aware of being able to do this. Dagger thieves on a general level of pvp, don’t have the capabilities to continually pop in and out of immediate danger range, presuming you have Melee attacks or aoe, so they want to end things quickly because they don’t handle drawn out conflicts (in that set) exceedingly well while having large killing power. So steal pops basically when the daggers are out. If they hit dat dere invisibility from range (say HiS/Blinding Powder/HS+BP) Steal is a common follow up.
It’s smart to pick up on trends, at least I would think so. I don’t know the name of any Necromancer weapon skills other than Life Siphon and Spinal Shivers, don’t need too, just pick up on trends. Mesmer stuff can be hard to dodge, but there are general trends which pretty much they all do without inconsistency. “Blurred frenzy the second something looks scary”.
It’s almost laughable. Shoot I myself have my own pattern, that can be picked up and predicted assuming you can stop it regardless. Forcing me to shift.

you can fix that from your traits and armors, if you decide to go for full glas cannon you can output high dps. If you go for tanky build you will backstab for 4 k and survive other’s bursts

On a level if burst goes down, so does possible damage output in a tankier spec.

Best advice is still ele forums tho.
Would say go D/D bunker or S/D bunker, but shoot you can do almost whatever you want if the goal is HJ or WvW.

MrForz.1953:

SilverWF.4789:

Ha-ha, so like you:
Thieves using Assasin’s Signet? > Prepare a defensive move.
Thieves using (Any) Venom? > Prepare a defensive move.
Thieves rising their right arm? > Prepare a defensive move.

Yeah, it’s easy – easy like your cases, really ^^

Noone’s dumb enough to use Assassin’s Signet, and you have 30s to apply the Basilisk Venom giving you plenty of room to check for an engage. And… Tell me how you’re actually seeing a Steal coming like all the other cases I mentioned, this one coming from a decent Thief is only predictable… 50% of the time? Due to its instant cast nature? Don’t tell me I’m actually teaching you how to play one, baddie.

Besides it’s not even a complaint but a comment, I suppose that I get off really easy since I main an Engineer overprepared to greet the cheese with open arms. The results of these mechanics can be seen on most of the playerbase, and leads to why there are complaints, why the WvW grounds are infested by that, and why there are 850 sup3r0wn4g3 Thief PvP Fragm0v1es featuring 1v5+ everyday, something that you can do blindfolded with both hands bound when facing cattle due to the nature of the mechanisms. I don’t know if the hypocrisy or the refusal for most of Thieves to make efforts is considered laughable or disgusting.

What a hell have been posted above?

If thief running to you and he is nearly 900 distanse – he will steal in the 90% cases.
If his weapons D/D – he will steal 100% (steal or shadow step – doesn’t really matter)
What you need more?
Many power-thieves using AS, really.

Videos 1vs5? Lol? If that 5 foes can be beaten by just 1 thief – they are really noobs and any class will be able to stomp them too, not only thief.
And there is a tons movies with 1 Engi vs 3-5 noobs too.

And noone will running with venoms just for fun. Mostly it’s used directly before the combat begins. For thieves “start of the battle” = “burst”, so…

Kamata.5762:

Columba.9730:

Iove.3902:

No it’s not balanced. Neither is a GC Warrior who crits for 17k or 100b you to death. Neither is a GC Power Bow Ranger who can Rapid Fire you to death. Neither is a Mesmer who can just 1shot anyone that is also GC spec. Neither is a GC Necro with daggers. Neither is a 100nades Engi or Rifle Burst Engi. etc etc

You might wanna report all this classes while you’re at it if you’re going to complain.

tl;dr not a class issue just a game issue with stat distribution.

yet you can see those other classes and avoid them. not so with thieves.

You should just learn how to counter stealth. Im a mesmer and the class I love to fight the most is thief because it is a challenge to win from a good thief, not those glass cannons they die before they can even land BS on me. The problem is not with stealth, but with you.

well said, not that he will listen he has a vendetta against thiefs lol must have got gibbed once when he was new/had terrible gear and was scarred for life

L2p_issue. Once you learn to deal with thieves, they aren’t that scary anymore.

Wanna talk unforgiving, nigh unpredictable 100-0 bursting? 100nades engineer.

Razor.6392:

L2p_issue. Once you learn to deal with thieves, they aren’t that scary anymore.

Wanna talk unforgiving, nigh unpredictable 100-0 bursting? 100nades engineer.

L2p_issue. Once you learn to deal with engineers, they aren’t that scary anymore.

Funny, isn’t it? Don’t tell me that you can’t see when an Engineer is using the Magnet on you, he’s holding a huge chunk of metal and there is a line drawn between literally telling you to press V.

Thieves are pretty easy when you learn that your utility slots need to be slotted with stuff that’s useful in PvP, and that the most useful utilities are invul/block/stunbreakers that counter spike builds completely.

On my Warrior I can kill you in 1.75 seconds OP.
So I’m twice as OP as Thieves? No, you just need to learn how to pvp in this game.

Fade.7658:

Don’t mind Columba.9730. I used to be in the same guild, and he hates thieves with a passion. :P

Once the culling is removed, I think things will improve overall.

Yeah I can see that he almost exclusively posts in thief qq topics.

Forever asspained lol.

JeroenXP.5364:

Not too even speak about how much survivability stealth gives. I’m not an hardcore PvP’er since I do it once in awhile but sure this class gives me a feeling not to even bother with PvP.

This is actually the right decision. If you aren’t a semi-good pvper, you don’t stand a smallest chance against average thief.
Thief is still fairly balanced when it comes to experienced people fighting, though.

On my Warrior I can kill you in 1.75 seconds OP.
So I’m twice as OP as Thieves? No, you just need to learn how to pvp in this game.

Uhh, oh, we both know that this isn’t the case. If you try to charge me as a warrior, I just pop invulnerability and shatters: you took 20k damage and 10 confusion stacks, I took none. The thing is, I can’t counter attack like that against a good thief because they attack from stealth. I can’t just wait for them to do a move and then counter it.
When playing against a good thief, you must know their mechanics and style very well so that you can predict their attacks. This isn’t the case when playing against warriors. I have to admit that warrior is generally a weaker threat: I know nothing about warriors, yet they hardly ever get me. I know a lot about thieves, and even then they can get me. Could be just build wars, ofc.

Lol @ Red. I can see you coming at me with Rush, Bull’s Charge, Leap, Earthquake, Whirlwind, etc..

I can’t see the Thief steal :-/ I’m just asking for 0.5 sec to react. With latency that’s not much.

I can see you Hundred Blades, Eviscerate, Kill Shot, etc.

I can’t see the Thief backstab :-/ Again, I’m just asking for 0.5 sec to react. In this case, just give me a noise that I’ll probably barely hear cuz there’s other fighting and/or my wife is talking to me :-p

I just want the chance to react to something when it is used rather than guessing when that something will be used.

Sebrent.3625:

I can’t see the Thief steal :-/ I’m just asking for 0.5 sec to react. With latency that’s not much.

I can’t see the Thief backstab :-/ Again, I’m just asking for 0.5 sec to react. In this case, just give me a noise that I’ll probably barely hear cuz there’s other fighting and/or my wife is talking to me :-p

If you see a melee thief attacking you and there not at close range theres a high chance there about to steal/shadowstep

if you see a thief your fighting in melee go stealth theres a good chance there about to backstab.

Sure its harder to see than other profs, but everyone tends to have some instant damage

kirito.4138:

Yes it is normal for any Glass canon build.
Successful burst = kill
Failed burst = death

There is not much balance centered on 1v1, its more on group play.

You’re an elementalist, you should have one of the best escape/mobility abilities of any profession. Something a lot of people complain about. With that, you should easily be able to recover and come back.

That should be true, but failing at burst does not mean death for thieves. If they fail they can just as easily stealth and retreat.

Imo all burst from all classes should be toned down a bit (With compensation of course)

Dasorine.1964:

Sebrent.3625:

I can’t see the Thief steal :-/ I’m just asking for 0.5 sec to react. With latency that’s not much.

I can’t see the Thief backstab :-/ Again, I’m just asking for 0.5 sec to react. In this case, just give me a noise that I’ll probably barely hear cuz there’s other fighting and/or my wife is talking to me :-p

If you see a melee thief attacking you and there not at close range theres a high chance there about to steal/shadowstep

Yes, but when? This second? How about this next second? The following second? I can’t just blow all dodges, blocks, distortion, etc. guessing so now I have to hope I guess correctly. Not all thieves are predictable. The good ones know to change up their pace.

Dasorine.1964:

if you see a thief your fighting in melee go stealth theres a good chance there about to backstab.

Yes, but that thief has 3 (often 4 traited) seconds to decide when to backstab me. I can’t just blow 3-4 seconds worth of dodge rolls, blocks, etc.

Dasorine.1964:

Sure its harder to see than other profs, but everyone tends to have some instant damage

Harder is inaccurate as it implies that you can see it. You cannot see backstab. You cannot see steal. Countering these moves involves correctly guessing when they’ll be used.

This largely differs from fighting other classes, warriors being a great example, where you can see them use their abilities and react.

The fact that a large part of my success in fighting a good thief is dependent on the luck of my guesses and the ease by which a thief can reset a fight makes me quite annoyed. I can’t always guess correctly … lucky eventually bites you.

Culling still being an issue just exacerbates this.

Penguin.5197:

kirito.4138:

Yes it is normal for any Glass canon build.
Successful burst = kill
Failed burst = death

There is not much balance centered on 1v1, its more on group play.

You’re an elementalist, you should have one of the best escape/mobility abilities of any profession. Something a lot of people complain about. With that, you should easily be able to recover and come back.

That should be true, but failing at burst does not mean death for thieves. If they fail they can just as easily stealth and retreat.

Imo all burst from all classes should be toned down a bit (With compensation of course)

Potentially, some people are good enough at predicting that stealth isn’t a guarantee, plus theres luck and then theres CC and all sorts.

and sebrent you know the time frame, you know the location they are most likely going to assault and you know that at some point they will burn there single steal cooldown (which still doesnt do that much damage) and you still can’t think of ways to counter them? other than wanting to dodge em?

Dasorine.1964:

Penguin.5197:

kirito.4138:

Yes it is normal for any Glass canon build.
Successful burst = kill
Failed burst = death

There is not much balance centered on 1v1, its more on group play.

You’re an elementalist, you should have one of the best escape/mobility abilities of any profession. Something a lot of people complain about. With that, you should easily be able to recover and come back.

That should be true, but failing at burst does not mean death for thieves. If they fail they can just as easily stealth and retreat.

Imo all burst from all classes should be toned down a bit (With compensation of course)

Potentially, some people are good enough at predicting that stealth isn’t a guarantee, plus theres luck and then theres CC and all sorts.

and sebrent you know the time frame, you know the location they are most likely going to assault and you know that at some point they will burn there single steal cooldown (which still doesnt do that much damage) and you still can’t think of ways to counter them? other than wanting to dodge em?

I’m aware of how to counter them. However, I highlighted some of the words used in your post that accentuate what I’m talking about is the issue.

You’re correct that I can be fairly sure they are going to do these things. The question is “when” because when they decide to it happens instantly and there are large windows for them to choose from. I can’t cover those large windows so it comes down to guessing.

This is not the case against non-Thief classes as you get at least 0.5 second of animation to react to. Eviscerate, Bull’s Charge, Bola, Ride the Lightning, Grenade Barrage, Blurred Frenzy, etc.. You see them and have a chance to react. There is no guesswork involved, just reaction time and skill.

Columba.9730:

Send feedback to anet. No it’s not balanced.

More unconstructive feedback from our residential Thief-forum troll.

OP, yes it’s balanced. If you’re dieing in 3 seconds, you’re a glass canon. The thief that kills in 3 seconds is glass canon too. He dies just as fast.

Sebrent.3625:

The fact that a large part of my success in fighting a good thief is dependent on the luck of my guesses and the ease by which a thief can reset a fight makes me quite annoyed. I can’t always guess correctly … lucky eventually bites you.

Culling still being an issue just exacerbates this.

There, someone who gets it. I don’t understand why it is to hard for everyone to even see this, I mean, we’re not even complaining, we state that and it’s directly “L2 kitten ue, classified, moved on”.

Yeah I got 2 shotted by a full GC thief the first time I encountered them in a 1v1 situation on my ranger. I was walking back to my keep when boom 9k backstab 6k heartseeker. In all fairness, I was…you could say, a full glass cannon. absolutely no toughness and no vitality. (they were at base values). I suspected he was glass too, as shortly thereafter a guardian came and revived me. I watched as the thief tried to stomp me and half his health was obliterated by the Guardian’s whirling wrath. He then went down to 1 autoattack chain and I was revived by said guardian (a smart decision as he did not want me as a rally for the thief)

I opened my combat log. Oh, 9k backstab. Oh snap, 6k heartseeker. I looked up the abilities on gw2 wikia.

Oh, there’s this class called thief (seriously, at that point I didn’t know about half the professions lol. I had seen shadow refuge ONCE in Caudecus Manor). OK let’s see, they rely on stealth. How do they stealth? They can trait stealth on steal. OK, they can C&D. OK, they can use blinding powder. Right, there’s also a combo field + finisher that gives them stealth. OK, how long are these stealths? Right, they’re short. 3-4 seconds at most. He can pop a shadow refuge for 12 seconds but you have 4 seconds to knock him out of it. Right, now, what counters stealth? Well, if he attacks out of stealth he gets revealed and can’t stealth anymore. OK, fantastic.

Oh, and my glass cannon ranger? 15k health 2k armor, super squishy, met a DD elementalist on the field, took a 12k combo from the ele’s fire attunement. 7k from his churning earth. Met a warrior. Almost one-shotted with eviscerate. Met a mesmer, one-shotted by mind wrack. Met an engineer, one shotted by grenades. Met a guardian, killed myself cause I didn’t realize that I was getting retaliation damage and he was outhealing my damage. Decided not to go glass cannon, I died a lot.

I shelved my ranger for a couple months cause I liked Guardian more. From what I learned and from my friend showing me what thieves were about I went undefeated 1v1 against backstab thieves until my server moved up to tier 2 (and still I win the majority of fights against backstab thieves). Next encounter against a thief on my ranger? Well I built bunker and traps. Oh man, I lost, but did I put up a good fight. The thief was good, he had good control of shadowstep, knew that to escape me he needed to take some falling damage for his blinding powder on fall trait, and beat me after quite a long battle. But suffice to say, I had learned how to fight against thieves. I won a couple fights, lost a couple fights, against good players, against bad players. I learned, adapted, and now I’m at a position where I’m happy. I wouldn’t even say I’m a good trap ranger, seeing as I lose literally 100% of fights against OTHER trap rangers (Seriously, I’ve not won a single one of them).

This is just my story. Of course, I’m sure there are others, and most players I know don’t have particular problems against thieves.

normal? yes. acceptable? no.

the thief class is just the worst thing ever. 8k hits, stealth every 3 seconds… it truly a class for scrubs.

vespers.1759:

normal? yes. acceptable? no.

the thief class is just the worst thing ever. 8k hits, stealth every 3 seconds… it truly a class for scrubs.

no complaining on the forums because you died to someone is for scrubs, 8k is hardly the highest damage obtainable in a single button press in this game and stealth is easy to counter if you actually pay attention and learn patterns.

Dasorine.1964:

vespers.1759:

normal? yes. acceptable? no.

the thief class is just the worst thing ever. 8k hits, stealth every 3 seconds… it truly a class for scrubs.

no complaining on the forums because you died to someone is for scrubs, 8k is hardly the highest damage obtainable in a single button press in this game and stealth is easy to counter if you actually pay attention and learn patterns.

let me guess… you play a thief.

vespers.1759:

Dasorine.1964:

vespers.1759:

normal? yes. acceptable? no.

the thief class is just the worst thing ever. 8k hits, stealth every 3 seconds… it truly a class for scrubs.

no complaining on the forums because you died to someone is for scrubs, 8k is hardly the highest damage obtainable in a single button press in this game and stealth is easy to counter if you actually pay attention and learn patterns.

let me guess… you play a thief.

let me guess… you play a glass cannon build with no defense who got ambushed once by another glass cannon build who managed to kill you and because you think your the all glorious master of the game that any time you die due to your own build choice everything else must be wrong?

Dasorine.1964:

vespers.1759:

Dasorine.1964:

vespers.1759:

normal? yes. acceptable? no.

the thief class is just the worst thing ever. 8k hits, stealth every 3 seconds… it truly a class for scrubs.

no complaining on the forums because you died to someone is for scrubs, 8k is hardly the highest damage obtainable in a single button press in this game and stealth is easy to counter if you actually pay attention and learn patterns.

let me guess… you play a thief.

let me guess… you play a glass cannon build with no defense who got ambushed once by another glass cannon build who managed to kill you and because you think your the all glorious master of the game that any time you die due to your own build choice everything else must be wrong?

yes but my glass canon ranger does 1k dmg on it’s 1 and 2 skill… not 3-4k and 7k hearts + 8k backstab. i also have no defense whereas a thief can stealth every 3 seconds.

care to continue this debate? nothing you can say can defend the thief class.

I could go on about how these single target only attacks that have limitations along side there higher base damage that for many are defendable are generally on par with area attacks and attacks that split their damage between direct damage and conditions.

I could go on about how certain attacks only become that strong during the end part of a fight as they are designed for finishing the fight quickly

I could go on about the fundamentally differentthe roles are for each profession and each professions different builds and the pro’s and cons for every single one of them.

But I won’t because you’ll just say “oh but invisible for 3-4 seconds can’t kill em, can’t hit em! makes them invincible! makes them instant kill you without ever being revealed!” or some other rubbish.

Fact is many (I dare say bordering on the majority) of people who fight in pvp actually spend some time learning their enemy and figuring out actual counters and fine tuning their builds beyond just bunging on zerker armour and complaining every time they get killed by someone else.

vespers.1759:

Dasorine.1964:

vespers.1759:

Dasorine.1964:

vespers.1759:

normal? yes. acceptable? no.

the thief class is just the worst thing ever. 8k hits, stealth every 3 seconds… it truly a class for scrubs.

no complaining on the forums because you died to someone is for scrubs, 8k is hardly the highest damage obtainable in a single button press in this game and stealth is easy to counter if you actually pay attention and learn patterns.

let me guess… you play a thief.

let me guess… you play a glass cannon build with no defense who got ambushed once by another glass cannon build who managed to kill you and because you think your the all glorious master of the game that any time you die due to your own build choice everything else must be wrong?

yes but my glass canon ranger does 1k dmg on it’s 1 and 2 skill… not 3-4k and 7k hearts + 8k backstab. i also have no defense whereas a thief can stealth every 3 seconds.

care to continue this debate? nothing you can say can defend the thief class.

Uhhh…yes I can. First of all, glass cannons are really…really…bad to play for a ranger solo. Glass cannon rangers just in general don’t work in pvp, especially not solo.

If you want to play a glass cannon “ranged” class, go warrior. Put on full zerker armor and you’ll be hitting 10-15k volleys and 20k killshots on crit. You can literally one-shot (I mean shot) thieves (and your glass cannon ranger) with that kind of build. How does that kind of damage suit you? Warriors wear heavy, so they have slightly more damage reduction, have 20% more health, and their utility options don’t suck compared to those of a glass cannon ranger.

I was a glass cannon ranger once. I got 2 shotted by thieves, but of course, you can read the long tl;dr I posted just a few posts above.

TL;DR thieves aren’t OP and you need to l2p. This is coming from one who subs a lv 2 thief ONLY for spvp.

Master of Timespace.2548:

When playing against a good thief, you must know their mechanics and style very well so that you can predict their attacks

To be good in PvP you MUST know mechanics of the ALL classes. If you r not – you will suck and creating QQ-threads after this ^^

vespers.1759:

yes but my glass canon ranger does 1k dmg on it’s 1 and 2 skill… not 3-4k and 7k hearts + 8k backstab. i also have no defense whereas a thief can stealth every 3 seconds.

care to continue this debate? nothing you can say can defend the thief class.

LOL
You have RANGE, you have PET (not only damage but infinite buff stacking too), you have lot of EVASION, you have best SELFHEAL in the game. Continue?

Rangers, especially trap rangers SB/S+WH – nearly best classes for 1vs1 fights. Maybe you need practice more with your build – I dunno, but your cry “OMG I lack of solo-DPS” makes me laught

Teamkiller.4315:

vespers.1759:

Dasorine.1964:

vespers.1759:

Dasorine.1964:

vespers.1759:

normal? yes. acceptable? no.

the thief class is just the worst thing ever. 8k hits, stealth every 3 seconds… it truly a class for scrubs.

no complaining on the forums because you died to someone is for scrubs, 8k is hardly the highest damage obtainable in a single button press in this game and stealth is easy to counter if you actually pay attention and learn patterns.

let me guess… you play a thief.

let me guess… you play a glass cannon build with no defense who got ambushed once by another glass cannon build who managed to kill you and because you think your the all glorious master of the game that any time you die due to your own build choice everything else must be wrong?

yes but my glass canon ranger does 1k dmg on it’s 1 and 2 skill… not 3-4k and 7k hearts + 8k backstab. i also have no defense whereas a thief can stealth every 3 seconds.

care to continue this debate? nothing you can say can defend the thief class.

Uhhh…yes I can. First of all, glass cannons are really…really…bad to play for a ranger solo. Glass cannon rangers just in general don’t work in pvp, especially not solo.

If you want to play a glass cannon “ranged” class, go warrior. Put on full zerker armor and you’ll be hitting 10-15k volleys and 20k killshots on crit. You can literally one-shot (I mean shot) thieves (and your glass cannon ranger) with that kind of build. How does that kind of damage suit you? Warriors wear heavy, so they have slightly more damage reduction, have 20% more health, and their utility options don’t suck compared to those of a glass cannon ranger.

I was a glass cannon ranger once. I got 2 shotted by thieves, but of course, you can read the long tl;dr I posted just a few posts above.

TL;DR thieves aren’t OP and you need to l2p. This is coming from one who subs a lv 2 thief ONLY for spvp.

i’ll summarize so the others can also have a laugh:

only thieves and warriors can run glass canon because warriors have killshot (IE: the most useless 1v1v skill ever). since every other class is outclassed by a glass canon thief they shouldn’t try and should go bunker and try to survive thief strikes without hoping to kill them.

Sebrent.3625:

Lol @ Red. I can see you coming at me with Rush, Bull’s Charge, Leap, Earthquake, Whirlwind, etc..

I can’t see the Thief steal :-/ I’m just asking for 0.5 sec to react. With latency that’s not much.

I can see you Hundred Blades, Eviscerate, Kill Shot, etc.

I can’t see the Thief backstab :-/ Again, I’m just asking for 0.5 sec to react. In this case, just give me a noise that I’ll probably barely hear cuz there’s other fighting and/or my wife is talking to me :-p

I just want the chance to react to something when it is used rather than guessing when that something will be used.

Steal+CnD is 8k at most, then you have time to pop your invul/block skill and toss 2 skills to kill the Thief and laugh.

SilverWF.4789:

vespers.1759:

yes but my glass canon ranger does 1k dmg on it’s 1 and 2 skill… not 3-4k and 7k hearts + 8k backstab. i also have no defense whereas a thief can stealth every 3 seconds.

care to continue this debate? nothing you can say can defend the thief class.

LOL
You have RANGE, you have PET (not only damage but infinite buff stacking too), you have lot of EVASION, you have best SELFHEAL in the game. Continue?

Rangers, especially trap rangers SB/S+WH – nearly best classes for 1vs1 fights. Maybe you need practice more with your build – I dunno, but your cry “OMG I lack of solo-DPS” makes me laught

yes range totally works when a thief heartseekers you from stealth for 7k dmg 3 times in a row and the pet can’t catch anything that isn’t standing still.

the stealth is bad alone, but giving that class arguably the best burst in the game is just ridiculous.

Penguin.5197:

That should be true, but failing at burst does not mean death for thieves. If they fail they can just as easily stealth and retreat.

Most classes can disengage like that after a failed burst.

Warrior can Rush+Savage leap away.
Mesmers can stealth/decoy/blink away.
Eles can port/RTL away.
Rangers can Swoop away.
Engis can Elixir S/Jump shot away.

The only ones who can’t are Guardian and Necro as they are attrition classes so they aren’t supposed to get a getaway skill.

Skill in this game is very much based on twitchy play. If you can stun break and dodge the burst then you’ll have no problem with a HB Warrior or BS Thief. If this is what Anet intended, yes it’s balanced. If they is not intentional then it needs a rework.