Guild Wars 2

Narkodx.1472:

Keyboardwarrior.8021:

Narkodx.1472:

Keyboardwarrior.8021:

Narkodx.1472:

You’re obviously a troll man give it up already

I am the idiot and I am the one who is stupid when your ability to type just ONE coherent sentence is lacking

http://www.gw2score.com/PvP

You do not even PvP LOL

It’s not that I claim you are one, but your statement approved it… you were asking people not to pvp in a pvp game, isn’t that stupid?

wow…. you really pvp a lot, how comes I can not find your name there but saw your complaining my English? we are talking about thief burst damage here, you consistently argue other kitten including my English…. aren’t you stupid?

There is a button on there that allows you to go to the OLD leader board the one that actually mattered a bit – click on that so you can see my 1300+ games
Why aren’t you on the old or new leader board? You only play hotjoin with shadow arts and dual daggers right!?

You are honestly too funny keep it up – bad english and bad player

oh please… I just used the search function there and searched your user name, well, guess what, nothing showed up… I don’t want to dig things centuries ago.

I am not sure if my English is bad… but that’s not the point here… again.. clear your slow mind first before you pull all these kitten in front of us.

Done wasting time with ya ^

Just answer one more question

Do you use shadow arts and dual daggers in hotjoins? I already know you do

http://i.imgur.com/DOqLXrt.gif

lol…. this is really the troll ^ haha

Narkodx.1472:

You’re obviously a troll man give it up already

I am the idiot and I am the one who is stupid when your ability to type just ONE coherent sentence is lacking

http://www.gw2score.com/PvP

You do not even PvP LOL

You do realize that there’s a whole area of the game called WvW? And that group size isn’t limited by numbers on a tidy little map?

The disconnect here and in most thief threads is that balancing tends to focus on PvP without regard to WvW. It’s different in many ways.

As to your comments about thieves in PvP, if your only options are dodging because you can’t actually kill anything, that’s a problem. It sounds to me like the thieves you’re describing could fill their role without weapons at all. Several people have already mentioned it, but you don’t seem to want to discuss anything. If you really want to talk about something, please explain to we morons how that’s a good thing. Then take some time to break down thieves in WvW. If you’re a master thief and pvp’er, I’m more than willing to listen to any advice you’ve got to offer.

Black Frog.9274:

Narkodx.1472:

You’re obviously a troll man give it up already

I am the idiot and I am the one who is stupid when your ability to type just ONE coherent sentence is lacking

http://www.gw2score.com/PvP

You do not even PvP LOL

You do realize that there’s a whole area of the game called WvW? And that group size isn’t limited by numbers on a tidy little map?

The disconnect here and in most thief threads is that balancing tends to focus on PvP without regard to WvW. It’s different in many ways.

As to your comments about thieves in PvP, if your only options are dodging because you can’t actually kill anything, that’s a problem. It sounds to me like the thieves you’re describing could fill their role without weapons at all. Several people have already mentioned it, but you don’t seem to want to discuss anything. If you really want to talk about something, please explain to we morons how that’s a good thing. Then take some time to break down thieves in WvW. If you’re a master thief and pvp’er, I’m more than willing to listen to any advice you’ve got to offer.

Right on ^

Narkodx.1472:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Narkodx.1472:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Narkodx.1472:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Narkodx.1472:

Keyboardwarrior.8021:

I agree with some post on this section, thief needs buff.

Either increase HP pool to match others, or increase burst damage, currently thief is unplayable in pvp, squishy target for others to laugh at….

Too bad they can’t buff your skill level

You will never be good at Thief even if they had 20k base health

You should try a Warrior or Guardian with Soldier Amulet

You know how I know that you are bad and Thief is fine? Watch any high level PvP tournament in the history of Guild Wars 2 – You will see a Thief

In a team based sPvP where your team mates are watching your back by buffing you, protecting you, and healing you, sure, but a Thief without babysitters are dead Thief equipped with paper armor and a pair of toothpicks.

Yeah maybe YOU need a baby sitter but not high level thieves who consistently disengage from ANYTHING besides another Thief do you watch top players in PvP like Toker/Sizer? They’re not even in team fights that often to be healed by team mates they are usually back capping watching respawns etc Maybe D/P Thief needs baby sitter but not S/D with 6 Acro – The build literally doesn’t ever have to die in a match – Evades for days + Shadow Refuge = Disengage from anything

I get it – you guys think Thieves should be standing on point trading auto attacks with a Cele Ele but that is simply never going to happen – Your job is to DECAP since no one is as fast as you and to +1 fights

Capping/decapping is not the problem that is being discussed here. The role of the Thief in PvP is not the issue. It is when the Thief joins the team fight is the problem.

Your complete disregard of the main topic is the major flaw of your argument.

The main topic? “Thief burst is too low…” – Team fights is the topic?

Thief joining a team fight? – That is not your role in pvp so what are you doing?

You sure you on the right topic?

Tell me, what does capping/decapping has to do with “Thief burst is too low…”

Are you bursting the cap point?

Even if you are, the topic is “vs other class”. Either way, you’re off topic.

I’m not really interested in getting into a flame war with you

You have been around for a while now

Are Thieves viable or not at the highest level of play? Are they or are they not represented on EVERY top team?

That’s the only question that matters

Have a nice day

The viability of Thief is not in question here. If you are only focusing on capping/decapping, Warrior and Engis can do that 10x, if not 100x, better that Thief.

Why?

It’s because of the topic we’re discussing here.

The only reason that you see a Thief in PvP is due to the team composition that can babysit a Thief and the preference of the player who choose to play Thief in that team. As a Thief, your role in that team can easily be replaced by any other profession, thus the Thief’s role is irrelevant to this discussion.

Tell me this. Why can’t you defend the point? Why must you leave/disengage and cap a different point?

The answers to these questions are the ones being discussed.

Due to the Thief’s low burst, they can neither defend a point nor cap a guarded point.

Taking a Thief in sPvP is a risk with no reward.

Black Frog.9274:

Narkodx.1472:

You’re obviously a troll man give it up already

I am the idiot and I am the one who is stupid when your ability to type just ONE coherent sentence is lacking

http://www.gw2score.com/PvP

You do not even PvP LOL

You do realize that there’s a whole area of the game called WvW? And that group size isn’t limited by numbers on a tidy little map?

The disconnect here and in most thief threads is that balancing tends to focus on PvP without regard to WvW. It’s different in many ways.

As to your comments about thieves in PvP, if your only options are dodging because you can’t actually kill anything, that’s a problem. It sounds to me like the thieves you’re describing could fill their role without weapons at all. Several people have already mentioned it, but you don’t seem to want to discuss anything. If you really want to talk about something, please explain to we morons how that’s a good thing. Then take some time to break down thieves in WvW. If you’re a master thief and pvp’er, I’m more than willing to listen to any advice you’ve got to offer.

Yeah I am rank 500+ in WvW mostly solo roaming on my Thief I am well aware of the issues in WvW

Guess what? There is no balance disconnect – the game is PURPOSELY balanced with PvP in mind. WvW with food, ascended, stacks, blah blah never going to be balanced. When my Necromancer can put on Dire/Perplexity/40% Condi Food do you actually think that game mode is balanced or will ever be? The answer is no. The devs barely care about WvW.

No actually a Thief NEEDS weapons – S/D provides evades and ports that ignore LOS the shortbow provides probably the best port in the game – that is called UNRIVALED mobility which is what keeps the Thief relevant in this game

Thief actually can kill people – The enemy Thief/Mesmer/Necro/Engi are primary targets for a Thief – The role of the Thief is to not waste time against a Bunker Guard/Warr/Ele in a 1v1 – instead you should be hunting the squishy classes – helping your team burst down targets in out numbered fights – and most importantly abuse your mobility to decap the enemy nodes that are left empty

Any other questions? I am honestly happy to help

What I do not like is people who have been playing the game for a few weeks/months use garbage builds in PvP and claim that the class is broken and unplayable

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Narkodx.1472:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Narkodx.1472:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Narkodx.1472:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Narkodx.1472:

Keyboardwarrior.8021:

I agree with some post on this section, thief needs buff.

Either increase HP pool to match others, or increase burst damage, currently thief is unplayable in pvp, squishy target for others to laugh at….

Too bad they can’t buff your skill level

You will never be good at Thief even if they had 20k base health

You should try a Warrior or Guardian with Soldier Amulet

You know how I know that you are bad and Thief is fine? Watch any high level PvP tournament in the history of Guild Wars 2 – You will see a Thief

In a team based sPvP where your team mates are watching your back by buffing you, protecting you, and healing you, sure, but a Thief without babysitters are dead Thief equipped with paper armor and a pair of toothpicks.

Yeah maybe YOU need a baby sitter but not high level thieves who consistently disengage from ANYTHING besides another Thief do you watch top players in PvP like Toker/Sizer? They’re not even in team fights that often to be healed by team mates they are usually back capping watching respawns etc Maybe D/P Thief needs baby sitter but not S/D with 6 Acro – The build literally doesn’t ever have to die in a match – Evades for days + Shadow Refuge = Disengage from anything

I get it – you guys think Thieves should be standing on point trading auto attacks with a Cele Ele but that is simply never going to happen – Your job is to DECAP since no one is as fast as you and to +1 fights

Capping/decapping is not the problem that is being discussed here. The role of the Thief in PvP is not the issue. It is when the Thief joins the team fight is the problem.

Your complete disregard of the main topic is the major flaw of your argument.

The main topic? “Thief burst is too low…” – Team fights is the topic?

Thief joining a team fight? – That is not your role in pvp so what are you doing?

You sure you on the right topic?

Tell me, what does capping/decapping has to do with “Thief burst is too low…”

Are you bursting the cap point?

Even if you are, the topic is “vs other class”. Either way, you’re off topic.

I’m not really interested in getting into a flame war with you

You have been around for a while now

Are Thieves viable or not at the highest level of play? Are they or are they not represented on EVERY top team?

That’s the only question that matters

Have a nice day

The viability of Thief is not in question here. If you are only focusing on capping/decapping, Warrior and Engis can do that 10x, if not 100x, better that Thief.

Why?

It’s because of the topic we’re discussing here.

The only reason that you see a Thief in PvP is due to the team composition that can babysit a Thief and the preference of the player who choose to play Thief in that team. As a Thief, your role in that team can easily be replaced by any other profession, thus the Thief’s role is irrelevant to this discussion.

Tell me this. Why can’t you defend the point? Why must you leave/disengage and cap a different point?

The answers to these questions are the ones being discussed.

Due to the Thief’s low burst, they can neither defend a point nor cap a guarded point.

Taking a Thief in sPvP is a risk with no reward.

First of all you say the viability of the Thief is not the question here then you say the Thief can be replaced by any other profession – so it is not viable?

The role of the Thief can not be replaced by “anyone” that is such a strange statement for an experienced player like you to make considering you and I both know that the mobility of the Thief is better than every other class – that also creates the role of the Thief in PvP – without mobility the Thief might as well be deleted

Why can’t you hold a point/decap a held point better than a Celestial Warr/Ele/Engi?
Do I have to answer that question? Those specs are obviously over performing right now and that is the role of those classes… duh..? ?

What are you arguing man? Thief should be able to have superior mobility and the ability to hold points better than a Warr/Guard/Ele/Engi

Don’t think so

Narkodx.1472:

First of all you say the viability of the Thief is not the question here then you say the Thief can be replaced by any other profession – so it is not viable?

I have posted that its viability hinges on team composition.

The role of the Thief can not be replaced by “anyone” that is such a strange statement for an experienced player like you to make considering you and I both know that the mobility of the Thief is better than every other class – that also creates the role of the Thief in PvP – without mobility the Thief might as well be deleted

The mobility of the Thief is not the problem, its burst damage is.

If the Thief’s role cannot be replaced, why do you think TSG have 4 roamers, other than the Thief?

Having 4 roamers proves that the Thief’s role is not irreplaceable.

Why can’t you hold a point/decap a held point better than a Celestial Warr/Ele/Engi?
Do I have to answer that question? Those specs are obviously over performing right now and that is the role of those classes… duh..? ?

Don’t you see a problem with that? If the Thief class is balanced with other profession in terms of damage, then those shouldn’t be a problem for a Burst-centric profession.

The fact that Thief can only run away from that situation doesn’t sit well with me, nor should it sit well with you.

What are you arguing man? Thief should be able to have superior mobility and the ability to hold points better than a Warr/Guard/Ele/Engi

Don’t think so

Bottom line is, mobility doesn’t put points on the board, defending a point is. I don’t know about you, but a Roamer Ele, Mesmer, or Warrior can both be mobile and defend a point. Just look at Apex Prime and Outplayed By Children of NA — no Thief.

http://www.twitch.tv/sizer2654/c/5019166

In the first few seconds of that video Sizer does something only a Thief can do – stealth past enemy team – Shadow Step all the way up the point – then proceeded to decap the point with a Warrior sitting on it – We can’t all do this but we should try right!?

That is why the Thief will always be Meta

Narkodx.1472:

http://www.twitch.tv/sizer2654/c/5019166

In the first few seconds of that video Sizer does something only a Thief can do – stealth past enemy team – Shadow Step all the way up the point – then proceeded to decap the point with a Warrior sitting on it – We can’t all do this but we should try right!?

That is why the Thief will always be Meta

Sizer do what Sizer does — not every Thief is Sizer and Sizer is not every Thief.

You should not base the viability of the profession on a performance of one.

That’s like saying I have 2 legs so does Usain Bolt, he can run really really fast so we all should try, right?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Narkodx.1472:

http://www.twitch.tv/sizer2654/c/5019166

In the first few seconds of that video Sizer does something only a Thief can do – stealth past enemy team – Shadow Step all the way up the point – then proceeded to decap the point with a Warrior sitting on it – We can’t all do this but we should try right!?

That is why the Thief will always be Meta

Sizer do what Sizer does — not every Thief is Sizer and Sizer is not every Thief.

You should not base the viability of the profession on a performance of one.

That’s like saying I have 2 legs so does Usain Bolt, he can run really really fast so we all should try, right?

It takes more than two legs to be a great runner right? That is what you mean?

It takes more than clicking on a profession to be a great player right? Even if you clicked on Thief instead of Ele you can be a great player and contribute in a PvP game

How should we determine the “viability” of something if not for seeing it be used in top tier play? Thief is only viable when you can decap a Celestial class built for holding points!? How can a class using a berserker amulet tank better

Thief burst is not the problem – Thief not having a tanky hold-pointing build apparently is the problem for you

Burst is not the reason you can not decap a celestial engi – you can not sustain better than a celestial engi because of the build/amulet/class

In the open field like a duel server after about 10min of stealthing and hiding a Thief can beat any class – Sizer does it all the time

The point is during conquest wasting 10min trying to decap an engi is a waste of time when you can use your superior mobility than no other class has to decap something

The class is viable and performs well at top tier – Burst has absolutely nothing to do with anything – D/P Thief has PLENTY of burst but it can not hold a point either

Narkodx.1472:

Thief burst is not the problem – Thief not having a tanky hold-pointing build apparently is the problem for you

Not at all. Before all the nerfs and giving tankiness to other professions, I can keep a point because I can simply burst them down.

No need to be tanky.

Burst is not the reason you can not decap a celestial engi – you can not sustain better than a celestial engi because of the build/amulet/class

Then the imbalance is apparent.

In the open field like a duel server after about 10min of stealthing and hiding a Thief can beat any class – Sizer does it all the time

Other profession can do it better and it doesn’t have to be Sizer.

The point is during conquest wasting 10min trying to decap an engi is a waste of time when you can use your superior mobility than no other class has to decap something

Ah, but if your team sent a Warrior instead…it would have a more profitable result.

The class is viable and performs well at top tier – Burst has absolutely nothing to do with anything – D/P Thief has PLENTY of burst but it can not hold a point either

Have you seen the top teams in NA? No Thief.

Burst is the problem because that’s the main reason why we have Initiative instead of cooldowns, we’re suppose to be bursty.

Narkodx.1472:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Narkodx.1472:

http://www.twitch.tv/sizer2654/c/5019166

In the first few seconds of that video Sizer does something only a Thief can do – stealth past enemy team – Shadow Step all the way up the point – then proceeded to decap the point with a Warrior sitting on it – We can’t all do this but we should try right!?

That is why the Thief will always be Meta

Sizer do what Sizer does — not every Thief is Sizer and Sizer is not every Thief.

You should not base the viability of the profession on a performance of one.

That’s like saying I have 2 legs so does Usain Bolt, he can run really really fast so we all should try, right?

It takes more than two legs to be a great runner right? That is what you mean?

It takes more than clicking on a profession to be a great player right? Even if you clicked on Thief instead of Ele you can be a great player and contribute in a PvP game

How should we determine the “viability” of something if not for seeing it be used in top tier play? Thief is only viable when you can decap a Celestial class built for holding points!? How can a class using a berserker amulet tank better

Forget bunkers. Let’s send a Mesmer vs a Thief to a point. Who’d take the point?

Keyboardwarrior.8021:

Maugetarr.6823:

Keyboardwarrior.8021:

Maugetarr.6823:

@keyboardwarrior: We know that other classes can do comparable /more damage than thieves; they have higher coefficients and comparable modifiers, so mathematically the potential (and actual in some cases) damage output is greater. The problem is is that thief constantly walks the line between OP and UP and it’s largely dependent on player skill (both yours and the enemy’s ). The thing is our flat out ability to tank is nill, so if that’s your assessment of the thief’s survivability it’s never going to be good because we lack the blocks, invulns, and protection that other classes have. We do have a plethora of evades, dodges, blinds, and even weakness application. That’s sort of what leads to the disagreement between thieves and other classes because our fights end up being bipolar unless both parties are good with their particular classes: you either win handily or eat dirt hard.

I happen to think we’re in a pretty decent spot right now. A few tweaks/fixes here and there to things like venoms/deathblossom/traps would be great, but I can’t think of too much that could be buffed without overwhelming other classes (not all others but maybe a third of them) or nerfs that wouldn’t make thieves sub par to other zerkers. That seems like pretty decent balance to me right now at least.

Any class can be OP or UP depends on the players’ skills, this is pointless, I don’t know why you say useless things like this.

Again, they have equivalent skills to defense like our stealth, they are tankier, have more HP, more CC skills and damage burst is more, that’s total unfair.

Just to drive the point home how much of a difference your traits can make in your burst output (especially in PvP), I’ve attached a few pictures.

2,541 Steal
3,191 C&D
8,096 BS

If you look at my cooldown timers, that 13,828 damage happened in about 1 second. Yes this is a zerk v. zerk fight, but the damage doesn’t really need to be higher, just some of the thief weapon skills and utilities need tweaking.

You need to see the combat log to see damage of each hit my friend, the number on the screen is not exactly damage from each skill… that 8096 BS you saw on screen might include your flame and air, your position, bleeding damage etc… the actual BS might be just around 4k

I don’t have flame/air on that build… If I did, they would pop up as separate numbers.

Narkodx.1472:

http://www.twitch.tv/sizer2654/c/5019166

In the first few seconds of that video Sizer does something only a Thief can do – stealth past enemy team – Shadow Step all the way up the point – then proceeded to decap the point with a Warrior sitting on it – We can’t all do this but we should try right!?

That is why the Thief will always be Meta

You approved that your brain doesn’t work well again, watch the video again for the first cap at the beginning, did the thief cap the point himself? !!!!! IT WAS A 2V1 FIGHT… his teammate came and downed that warrior together, see how useless that thief was ? he could only watching that warrior standing there till a babysitter came to fight together….

and again, this is another s/d thief, why? he clearly understand dagger main doesn’t work that well, why?? see the topic here which is what we are talking about…

At 07:00, did you see how the warrior grab that point from him?

Keyboardwarrior.8021:

Narkodx.1472:

http://www.twitch.tv/sizer2654/c/5019166

In the first few seconds of that video Sizer does something only a Thief can do – stealth past enemy team – Shadow Step all the way up the point – then proceeded to decap the point with a Warrior sitting on it – We can’t all do this but we should try right!?

That is why the Thief will always be Meta

You approved that your brain doesn’t work well again, watch the video again for the first cap at the beginning, did the thief cap the point himself? !!!!! IT WAS A 2V1 FIGHT… his teammate came and downed that warrior together, see how useless that thief was ? he could only watching that warrior standing there till a babysitter came to fight together….

That also happen to Sizer during the EU Final (TCG vs 55HpMonk) where he call for help against a Sw/D Ranger to a point. It was a stalemate fight thanks to the healing seed he keeps on stealing from the ranger, else he would have been down long time ago.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Narkodx.1472:

Thief burst is not the problem – Thief not having a tanky hold-pointing build apparently is the problem for you

Not at all. Before all the nerfs and giving tankiness to other professions, I can keep a point because I can simply burst them down.

No need to be tanky.

Burst is not the reason you can not decap a celestial engi – you can not sustain better than a celestial engi because of the build/amulet/class

Then the imbalance is apparent.

In the open field like a duel server after about 10min of stealthing and hiding a Thief can beat any class – Sizer does it all the time

Other profession can do it better and it doesn’t have to be Sizer.

The point is during conquest wasting 10min trying to decap an engi is a waste of time when you can use your superior mobility than no other class has to decap something

Ah, but if your team sent a Warrior instead…it would have a more profitable result.

The class is viable and performs well at top tier – Burst has absolutely nothing to do with anything – D/P Thief has PLENTY of burst but it can not hold a point either

Have you seen the top teams in NA? No Thief.

Burst is the problem because that’s the main reason why we have Initiative instead of cooldowns, we’re suppose to be bursty.

Said it all ^

Caed + Toker are still making noise on NA top teams.. in fact the two best teams in NA Abjured/DoD

As long as this is the case I am not sure how you can argue

Once they balance Celestial Warr/Ele/Engi the Thief will be top tier again instead of being the 4th or 5th best choice on a team
All is vain

@Keyboardwarrior keep up the classy comments – are you still using shadow arts?

Narkodx.1472:

Caed + Toker are still making noise on NA top teams

As long as this is the case I am not sure how you can argue

Once they balance Celestial Warr/Ele/Engi the Thief will be top tier again instead of being the 4th or 5th best class

All is vain

@Keyboardwarrior keep up the classy comments – are you still using shadow arts?

Guess with all these cold truth smashed on your face, eventually you agree thief is the 5th best class….. man…. why don’t you say it’s the 3rd worst class when only 8 classes in this game, but 5th best class? ^ see the problem in your mind?

And I believe thief is the 7th or 8th BEST class at the moment!!!! and you are really a troll !! ^

Keyboardwarrior.8021:

Narkodx.1472:

Caed + Toker are still making noise on NA top teams

As long as this is the case I am not sure how you can argue

Once they balance Celestial Warr/Ele/Engi the Thief will be top tier again instead of being the 4th or 5th best class

All is vain

@Keyboardwarrior keep up the classy comments – are you still using shadow arts?

Guess with all these cold truth smashed on your face, eventually you agree thief is the 5th best class….. man…. why don’t you say it’s the 3rd worst class when only 8 classes in this game, but 5th best class? ^ see the problem in your mind?

And I believe thief is the 7th or 8th BEST class at the moment!!!! and you are really a troll !! ^

Awwww you’re so cute and simple!

You win keyboardwarrior!

Let me tell you the possible real truth why thief is nerfed to the ground, the possible reason is the thief population in this game might be overwhelmingly too big, due to stealth is a very attractive mechanic of this class, so even Anet nerfs this class to ground, there are still lots of thief players.
Meanwhile, the nerf forces some players to switch to other class like ranger or Engi, this is one of the reasons why these two classes got buffed so hard, still, probably because the class population unbalanced.
This is how these gaming companies balance their game… including Blizzard and I think this is a fail strategy…. it also annoys some players to force them leave… one of the reasons WOW lost their massive players…
what’s the right strategy? pay me 500k , I show it to ya ^

Narkodx.1472:

Caed + Toker are still making noise on NA top teams.. in fact the two best teams in NA Abjured/DoD

As long as this is the case I am not sure how you can argue

Once they balance Celestial Warr/Ele/Engi the Thief will be top tier again instead of being the 4th or 5th best choice on a team
All is vain

@Keyboardwarrior keep up the classy comments – are you still using shadow arts?

lol. Are you really arguing that because there are two really good thief players that the class is ok?

Keyboardwarrior.8021:

Maugetarr.6823:

Keyboardwarrior.8021:

Maugetarr.6823:

@keyboardwarrior: We know that other classes can do comparable /more damage than thieves; they have higher coefficients and comparable modifiers, so mathematically the potential (and actual in some cases) damage output is greater. The problem is is that thief constantly walks the line between OP and UP and it’s largely dependent on player skill (both yours and the enemy’s ). The thing is our flat out ability to tank is nill, so if that’s your assessment of the thief’s survivability it’s never going to be good because we lack the blocks, invulns, and protection that other classes have. We do have a plethora of evades, dodges, blinds, and even weakness application. That’s sort of what leads to the disagreement between thieves and other classes because our fights end up being bipolar unless both parties are good with their particular classes: you either win handily or eat dirt hard.

I happen to think we’re in a pretty decent spot right now. A few tweaks/fixes here and there to things like venoms/deathblossom/traps would be great, but I can’t think of too much that could be buffed without overwhelming other classes (not all others but maybe a third of them) or nerfs that wouldn’t make thieves sub par to other zerkers. That seems like pretty decent balance to me right now at least.

Any class can be OP or UP depends on the players’ skills, this is pointless, I don’t know why you say useless things like this.

Again, they have equivalent skills to defense like our stealth, they are tankier, have more HP, more CC skills and damage burst is more, that’s total unfair.

Just to drive the point home how much of a difference your traits can make in your burst output (especially in PvP), I’ve attached a few pictures.

2,541 Steal
3,191 C&D
8,096 BS

If you look at my cooldown timers, that 13,828 damage happened in about 1 second. Yes this is a zerk v. zerk fight, but the damage doesn’t really need to be higher, just some of the thief weapon skills and utilities need tweaking.

You need to see the combat log to see damage of each hit my friend, the number on the screen is not exactly damage from each skill… that 8096 BS you saw on screen might include your flame and air, your position, bleeding damage etc… the actual BS might be just around 4k

Here’s a gif of it

Maugetarr.6823:

Keyboardwarrior.8021:

Maugetarr.6823:

Keyboardwarrior.8021:

Maugetarr.6823:

@keyboardwarrior: We know that other classes can do comparable /more damage than thieves; they have higher coefficients and comparable modifiers, so mathematically the potential (and actual in some cases) damage output is greater. The problem is is that thief constantly walks the line between OP and UP and it’s largely dependent on player skill (both yours and the enemy’s ). The thing is our flat out ability to tank is nill, so if that’s your assessment of the thief’s survivability it’s never going to be good because we lack the blocks, invulns, and protection that other classes have. We do have a plethora of evades, dodges, blinds, and even weakness application. That’s sort of what leads to the disagreement between thieves and other classes because our fights end up being bipolar unless both parties are good with their particular classes: you either win handily or eat dirt hard.

I happen to think we’re in a pretty decent spot right now. A few tweaks/fixes here and there to things like venoms/deathblossom/traps would be great, but I can’t think of too much that could be buffed without overwhelming other classes (not all others but maybe a third of them) or nerfs that wouldn’t make thieves sub par to other zerkers. That seems like pretty decent balance to me right now at least.

Any class can be OP or UP depends on the players’ skills, this is pointless, I don’t know why you say useless things like this.

Again, they have equivalent skills to defense like our stealth, they are tankier, have more HP, more CC skills and damage burst is more, that’s total unfair.

Just to drive the point home how much of a difference your traits can make in your burst output (especially in PvP), I’ve attached a few pictures.

2,541 Steal
3,191 C&D
8,096 BS

If you look at my cooldown timers, that 13,828 damage happened in about 1 second. Yes this is a zerk v. zerk fight, but the damage doesn’t really need to be higher, just some of the thief weapon skills and utilities need tweaking.

You need to see the combat log to see damage of each hit my friend, the number on the screen is not exactly damage from each skill… that 8096 BS you saw on screen might include your flame and air, your position, bleeding damage etc… the actual BS might be just around 4k

Here’s a gif of it

Still that’s the number pops on the screen, not the combat log….

Bottom line is, mobility doesn’t put points on the board

I tried to stay out of this, but this is not as easy as that.

Mobility decaps points. Decapped points aren’t generating points for the opposing team. Also, mobility can cap points unattended, provided response isn’t quick enough – and even if it’s only 2-5 points before it’s backcapped, that’s a few more than you had.

Also this isn’t about burst.

And I don’t know why it bothered me so much…

sorry, carry on…

Selver.1307:

Bottom line is, mobility doesn’t put points on the board

I tried to stay out of this, but this is not as easy as that.

Mobility decaps points. Decapped points aren’t generating points for the opposing team. Also, mobility can cap points unattended, provided response isn’t quick enough – and even if it’s only 2-5 points before it’s backcapped, that’s a few more than you had.

Also this isn’t about burst.

And I don’t know why it bothered me so much…

sorry, carry on…

Yes mobility helps and is only significant if the opposing team doesn’t have their own mobile team mate, which is very unlikely.

Sure you can decap an unattended point, but if you’re behind on points, you’ll stay behind unless you can defend that point to put points on the board.

If all you’re doing is capping/decapping, you can’t win that way for your team. You’ll have to defend it to rack up some points.

Narkodx.1472:

Caed + Toker are still making noise on NA top teams.. in fact the two best teams in NA Abjured/DoD

As long as this is the case I am not sure how you can argue

If Thieves are really great at capping/decapping, then why aren’t we seeing a team with one bunker and 4 roaming Thieves?

If you look at TCG, their bruiser is a Warrior and you’re not wondering why that is?

The reason is, Warrior surpasses Thief in both damage and survivability — and even in mobility. That’s why other teams don’t even bother with Thieves and employ other professions as their roamer.

Once they balance Celestial Warr/Ele/Engi the Thief will be top tier again instead of being the 4th or 5th best choice on a team
All is vain

It seems like you now acknowledge that the burst damage of Thief is not balance against bunker and Celestials — that it is too low. Or am I just seeing things?

Narkodx.1472:

Yeah I am rank 500+ in WvW mostly solo roaming on my Thief I am well aware of the issues in WvW

Guess what? There is no balance disconnect – the game is PURPOSELY balanced with PvP in mind. WvW with food, ascended, stacks, blah blah never going to be balanced. When my Necromancer can put on Dire/Perplexity/40% Condi Food do you actually think that game mode is balanced or will ever be? The answer is no. The devs barely care about WvW.

No actually a Thief NEEDS weapons – S/D provides evades and ports that ignore LOS the shortbow provides probably the best port in the game – that is called UNRIVALED mobility which is what keeps the Thief relevant in this game

Thief actually can kill people – The enemy Thief/Mesmer/Necro/Engi are primary targets for a Thief – The role of the Thief is to not waste time against a Bunker Guard/Warr/Ele in a 1v1 – instead you should be hunting the squishy classes – helping your team burst down targets in out numbered fights – and most importantly abuse your mobility to decap the enemy nodes that are left empty

Any other questions? I am honestly happy to help

What I do not like is people who have been playing the game for a few weeks/months use garbage builds in PvP and claim that the class is broken and unplayable

I’m glad to see that you decided to participate in the conversation.

I don’t agree that balance can’t be achieved in both PvP and WvW. PvP limits the inclusion of many variables in buffs, etc. but that doesn’t mean that buffs and how they work with the build can’t also be balanced. And if they’re going to provide a venue in which groups are significantly larger than in PvP, then they need to provide build options for that environment. That’s precisely the point of the thread.

The bigger issue, at least for the thief, is that because the thief’s role is viewed like you view it (which is obviously because that is how it is generally used in PvP), it is pigeon-holed into a role in a way that no other class is. Everyone else simply has more options for the ways that they can play. Thieves, as you yourself point out, are relegated to tweaking people’s noses and fighting only the “weakest” possible classes. Something the other “weak” classes don’t appear to be limited to (at least in WvW).

May be better:
- Improve others stealth Attacks.
- Infiltrator strike could be instant cast and blast finisher.

Backstab is fine. Thieves isn’t weak.

now, i agree with a few people. the fact that stealth isn’t thief exclusive is a little strange to me, although it makes a little sense for a ranger and mesmer i guess, but i why engi? they bunker so well and their turrets are strong, so why give them even more??? healing turrets, net turrets, flame turrets. blind, poison, bleed, pull, blocks,mines, grenades, stealth, that weird thing where they turn tiny and become invincible or something? i dunno…. all that in one solid build. they really are a jack of all trades.

the thing that bugs me the most is our stupid basilisk venom. if what i heard is true, it used to be unblockable or something? i dunno…. but i hate it because its soooooo easy to dodge/block and it has a cast time…. you only get ONE shot every 40 seconds and for what?….. 3 seconds of stone? why is it that ranger’s entangle is unblockable AND it has a huge AoE radius? and it can snag 5 enemies at a time??? thats so unfair.

why can’t we just have an unblockable basilisk venom? a TRUE elite… i thought an elite was suppose to be…. you know… ELITE… basilisk venom is weaker than most of the utilities including the other venoms

but its got the lowest cooldown of the elites, and that is why i use it. in spvp AND wvw, i run into enemies so frequently that basilisk venom is my only choice.

Achey.3612:

now, i agree with a few people. the fact that stealth isn’t thief exclusive is a little strange to me, although it makes a little sense for a ranger and mesmer i guess, but i why engi? they bunker so well and their turrets are strong, so why give them even more??? healing turrets, net turrets, flame turrets. blind, poison, bleed, pull, blocks,mines, grenades, stealth, that weird thing where they turn tiny and become invincible or something? i dunno…. all that in one solid build. they really are a jack of all trades.

the thing that bugs me the most is our stupid basilisk venom. if what i heard is true, it used to be unblockable or something? i dunno…. but i hate it because its soooooo easy to dodge/block and it has a cast time…. you only get ONE shot every 40 seconds and for what?….. 3 seconds of stone? why is it that ranger’s entangle is unblockable AND it has a huge AoE radius? and it can snag 5 enemies at a time??? thats so unfair.

why can’t we just have an unblockable basilisk venom? a TRUE elite… i thought an elite was suppose to be…. you know… ELITE… basilisk venom is weaker than most of the utilities including the other venoms

but its got the lowest cooldown of the elites, and that is why i use it. in spvp AND wvw, i run into enemies so frequently that basilisk venom is my only choice.

You wish it’s 3 sec… it’s only 1.5 sec… ^
Thieves are really nerfed to the basement, lower than ground.

A lot times, a ranger can burst me down in 2- 3 sec 1200 away, even after I went to stealth… it’s so broken. and they have some kind of skills can eliminate all incoming damage…..

Here is another one…. this skill is a lot better than stealth… this is a full cast of blade storm? plus a few other attacks…. how long is it?

meanwhile. look this burst, 18k+ damage in 3 sec… range damage… how much HP does he have????

This is a typical rapid fire vs backstab…..
One: push a button 1200 away…. single action… and the channel follows the target even when it’s in stealth….
The other: needs stealth, get into melee range, position right….

Sayirra really just busted me down 1200 away in 3 sec…

Keyboardwarrior.8021:

This is a typical rapid fire vs backstab…..
One: push a button 1200 away…. single action… and the channel follows the target even when it’s in stealth….
The other: needs stealth, get into melee range, position right….

Sayirra really just busted me down 1200 away in 3 sec…

Interrupt the channel with headshot or steal. Equip daggerstorm and reflect it. You’d be surprised how many rangers keep firing into a daggerstorm. Stop putting points in defensive lines if you think your burst is too low.

Maugetarr.6823:

Keyboardwarrior.8021:

This is a typical rapid fire vs backstab…..
One: push a button 1200 away…. single action… and the channel follows the target even when it’s in stealth….
The other: needs stealth, get into melee range, position right….

Sayirra really just busted me down 1200 away in 3 sec…

Interrupt the channel with headshot or steal. Equip daggerstorm and reflect it. You’d be surprised how many rangers keep firing into a daggerstorm. Stop putting points in defensive lines if you think your burst is too low.

That is assuming that the LB Ranger will stay in LB when you get any closer.

Sw/D Ranger is the best counter against Thieves — talk about mobility and evades, Thieves don’t even come close.

Maugetarr.6823:

Keyboardwarrior.8021:

This is a typical rapid fire vs backstab…..
One: push a button 1200 away…. single action… and the channel follows the target even when it’s in stealth….
The other: needs stealth, get into melee range, position right….

Sayirra really just busted me down 1200 away in 3 sec…

Interrupt the channel with headshot or steal. Equip daggerstorm and reflect it. You’d be surprised how many rangers keep firing into a daggerstorm. Stop putting points in defensive lines if you think your burst is too low.

Pistol range is 900. LB range is 1200. Steal teleport must be targeted. So you’d need either SB or SS to get closer. Daggerstorm can only be used once so often. In the P/P thread, I mentioned that one of the things that would make me most happy would be longer range pistol. Too much on thief relies on close ranges that either put you in the middle of someone’s strike range or put you outside your own strike range.

Black Frog.9274:

Maugetarr.6823:

Keyboardwarrior.8021:

This is a typical rapid fire vs backstab…..
One: push a button 1200 away…. single action… and the channel follows the target even when it’s in stealth….
The other: needs stealth, get into melee range, position right….

Sayirra really just busted me down 1200 away in 3 sec…

Interrupt the channel with headshot or steal. Equip daggerstorm and reflect it. You’d be surprised how many rangers keep firing into a daggerstorm. Stop putting points in defensive lines if you think your burst is too low.

Pistol range is 900. LB range is 1200. Steal teleport must be targeted. So you’d need either SB or SS to get closer. Daggerstorm can only be used once so often. In the P/P thread, I mentioned that one of the things that would make me most happy would be longer range pistol. Too much on thief relies on close ranges that either put you in the middle of someone’s strike range or put you outside your own strike range.

It’s actually 1500 when traited and mostly do trait for 1500 if they prefer Longbow.

Typically when a Ranger snipes you at 1200-1500, as a Thief you suppose to dodge backwards. Then when they try to get in range by moving forward, you meet them by using Heartseeker forward. By then you’re well inside the 900 range for Headshot.

However, a seasoned Ranger would have anticipated this and swapped to Sw/D to take you out.

Maugetarr.6823:

Keyboardwarrior.8021:

This is a typical rapid fire vs backstab…..
One: push a button 1200 away…. single action… and the channel follows the target even when it’s in stealth….
The other: needs stealth, get into melee range, position right….

Sayirra really just busted me down 1200 away in 3 sec…

Interrupt the channel with headshot or steal. Equip daggerstorm and reflect it. You’d be surprised how many rangers keep firing into a daggerstorm. Stop putting points in defensive lines if you think your burst is too low.

I wish the skill range of thieves can be 1500 or 1200 to do what you said, in 2 sec of time….

Without any previous warning ahead… normally when you know it is rapid fire, it’s when you get it, then the channel just follows you, no matter what, is this hard to understand?

Can not stand all these frustration… plus bought a wrong ring with laurel…. It’s freaking unique…. I am done playing this game now, until some day thief is playable again. See ya ^

Keyboardwarrior.8021:

Maugetarr.6823:

Keyboardwarrior.8021:

This is a typical rapid fire vs backstab…..
One: push a button 1200 away…. single action… and the channel follows the target even when it’s in stealth….
The other: needs stealth, get into melee range, position right….

Sayirra really just busted me down 1200 away in 3 sec…

Interrupt the channel with headshot or steal. Equip daggerstorm and reflect it. You’d be surprised how many rangers keep firing into a daggerstorm. Stop putting points in defensive lines if you think your burst is too low.

I wish the skill range of thieves can be 1500 or 1200 to do what you said, in 2 sec of time….

Without any previous warning ahead… normally when you know it is rapid fire, it’s when you get it, then the channel just follows you, no matter what, is this hard to understand?

No, it’s not hard to understand, but it’s not hard to counter. As Sir Vincent Sw/D rangers are the things I worry about more. If they start from 1500 range, usually you can LoS them (in PvP). If getting into range is that much of a problem, you can trait steal to 1500 (wouldn’t recommend personally). Alternatively, you can use Infiltrator’s Arrow to close the gap by 900, then steal into them. Or infiltrator’s signet which is a decent counter to Point blank shot, which most LB rangers will open with so that you take more of the rapid fire. If you took off Assassin’s Signet, you could include IS and become more survivable. Alternatively, you could use SoA and have the extra dodges for defending against rapid fire while also increasing your burst potential slightly while it’s off CD. All channeled abilities follow you in stealth, as it’s been from day 1.

And as for the damage, I already provided you with roughly equivalent output in gif form.

thief can engage from 1500 and beyond with the right weapon/trait sets.

easiest is going to be 2 points in Trickery for Long Reach (giving up Flanking Strikes or Thrill of the Crime), making steal a 1500 engage. It really throws those LB rangers for a loop spiking them down first, but it’s still tough if they are any good.

Rest involves inf signet, sword2, steal, shadowstep for some really crazy distances.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Narkodx.1472:

Caed + Toker are still making noise on NA top teams.. in fact the two best teams in NA Abjured/DoD

As long as this is the case I am not sure how you can argue

If Thieves are really great at capping/decapping, then why aren’t we seeing a team with one bunker and 4 roaming Thieves?

If you look at TCG, their bruiser is a Warrior and you’re not wondering why that is?

The reason is, Warrior surpasses Thief in both damage and survivability — and even in mobility. That’s why other teams don’t even bother with Thieves and employ other professions as their roamer.

Once they balance Celestial Warr/Ele/Engi the Thief will be top tier again instead of being the 4th or 5th best choice on a team
All is vain

It seems like you now acknowledge that the burst damage of Thief is not balance against bunker and Celestials — that it is too low. Or am I just seeing things?

Been on the fence a while about celestial. Celestial by itself isn’t too powerful. Might stacking is what really brings it up. I don’t want to see them nerf might stacking, but rather buff boon removal/stealing/transfer. Imagine if BT took the full duration/stack of the boons it stole rather than 5 seconds. Or if they put 2 stolen boons back on LS since it’s not an automatic rollover anymore. That could really make a difference in the bruiser style builds you see around right now, which would bring up the potential of thieves without increasing their burst.

The same could be done to the other boon strippers such as necro and mesmers.

Tldr: boon stacking too strong, boon stripping too weak.

I laugh they buffed larcenous for that express purpose. Nerf that purpose. Then we have greater need for it now than we did when it was first revamped. Lol.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

SinisterWraith.2910:

From what I have been reading on these forums. The Thief has literally been nerf’d into the ground and unplayable in PvP.

You are right, the game is full of easy mode AoE and CC, Condi builds etc that deal way more damage than a skill shot like back stab. I think if you are wanting a melee play Warrior, if you want a stealth toon play Ranger. Thief is dead.

Wait, what? Ez mode? I wonder who has ez mode. If you want to find out who has it “easy” play my zerker staff ele full of AoE and CC and I’ll play your thief build. We will see who has it “easy” when I can reset all the fights I want, flee without possibly being caught and start any fight with a 50% head start on life points because I destroyed that much of your life pool before you even knew I was there…

That post is just ridiculous. I can understand some frustration after some nerfs but this is just shameful.

You do know that in the current Meta there are a lot of ez mode builds? Did he call out your specific Staff Ele build?(who would consider playing staff ele in a spvp environment anyway) No. He was pointing out the many ez mode builds out there compared to the current thief meta. Thief is in a decent spot, it just requires more skill than other Professions builds at the moment. Instead of buffing thief, builds such as the spammy grenade, bomb, turret engis need to be looked at, as well as the ranger LB/GS. Thief can beat these builds, in the hands of the right player. We dont need a cheesy build or buff that creates one, thief should always remain a class that demands tact and skill.

Selver.1307:

I laugh they buffed larcenous for that express purpose. Nerf that purpose. Then we have greater need for it now than we did when it was first revamped. Lol.

Yeah, I remember when they warned us about how they were going to change it, and a lot of thieves wanted the damage of LS tuned down while the utility side of it was left on it. With one boon stolen, it’s not bad, but those stacks of might are always going to be hidden under throwaway boons such as retal and regen. If they traded some damage now for another boon stolen, it could turn the tables on how boon bunkers hold points, which seems like a better idea than simply upping thieves’ damage to compensate. There would be conterplay and time to rotate help, especially since LS can be denied by dodging FS now.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Black Frog.9274:

Maugetarr.6823:

Keyboardwarrior.8021:

This is a typical rapid fire vs backstab…..
One: push a button 1200 away…. single action… and the channel follows the target even when it’s in stealth….
The other: needs stealth, get into melee range, position right….

Sayirra really just busted me down 1200 away in 3 sec…

Interrupt the channel with headshot or steal. Equip daggerstorm and reflect it. You’d be surprised how many rangers keep firing into a daggerstorm. Stop putting points in defensive lines if you think your burst is too low.

Pistol range is 900. LB range is 1200. Steal teleport must be targeted. So you’d need either SB or SS to get closer. Daggerstorm can only be used once so often. In the P/P thread, I mentioned that one of the things that would make me most happy would be longer range pistol. Too much on thief relies on close ranges that either put you in the middle of someone’s strike range or put you outside your own strike range.

It’s actually 1500 when traited and mostly do trait for 1500 if they prefer Longbow.

Typically when a Ranger snipes you at 1200-1500, as a Thief you suppose to dodge backwards. Then when they try to get in range by moving forward, you meet them by using Heartseeker forward. By then you’re well inside the 900 range for Headshot.

However, a seasoned Ranger would have anticipated this and swapped to Sw/D to take you out.

This assumes you’ve got dagger main hand. Even then, I’m not sure how the math works out. At 1500, if you dodge backwards with any boosts, you’re in the 200 plus range (min 120, right?). Heartseeker range is 450, maybe 600 if you’re boosted. So unless the ranger moves forward in a straight line, quickly, you’ll still end up out of melee range. I think it probably also assumes PvP not WvW. If I had only one target to worry about, I could do more and be “better.” In WvW, this more commonly works out to something like: 4 rangers pepper the entire area around you so that it doesn’t matter where you dodge, with cripple, combat slow down, and the like, your best bet is to just run. And good luck with that if any of those rangers has managed to get you revealed.

I would honestly trade all thief stealth abilities for almost anything else in the GW2 skill bag.

Maugetarr.6823:

Keyboardwarrior.8021:

Maugetarr.6823:

Keyboardwarrior.8021:

This is a typical rapid fire vs backstab…..
One: push a button 1200 away…. single action… and the channel follows the target even when it’s in stealth….
The other: needs stealth, get into melee range, position right….

Sayirra really just busted me down 1200 away in 3 sec…

Interrupt the channel with headshot or steal. Equip daggerstorm and reflect it. You’d be surprised how many rangers keep firing into a daggerstorm. Stop putting points in defensive lines if you think your burst is too low.

I wish the skill range of thieves can be 1500 or 1200 to do what you said, in 2 sec of time….

Without any previous warning ahead… normally when you know it is rapid fire, it’s when you get it, then the channel just follows you, no matter what, is this hard to understand?

No, it’s not hard to understand, but it’s not hard to counter. As Sir Vincent Sw/D rangers are the things I worry about more. If they start from 1500 range, usually you can LoS them (in PvP). If getting into range is that much of a problem, you can trait steal to 1500 (wouldn’t recommend personally). Alternatively, you can use Infiltrator’s Arrow to close the gap by 900, then steal into them. Or infiltrator’s signet which is a decent counter to Point blank shot, which most LB rangers will open with so that you take more of the rapid fire. If you took off Assassin’s Signet, you could include IS and become more survivable. Alternatively, you could use SoA and have the extra dodges for defending against rapid fire while also increasing your burst potential slightly while it’s off CD. All channeled abilities follow you in stealth, as it’s been from day 1.

And as for the damage, I already provided you with roughly equivalent output in gif form.

so a thief has to sacrifice his damage, and most of his cool downs, just to fight against ranger’s one button? now I kind regret paying that $50 bucks for this game at the beginning…

Star.8401:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

SinisterWraith.2910:

From what I have been reading on these forums. The Thief has literally been nerf’d into the ground and unplayable in PvP.

You are right, the game is full of easy mode AoE and CC, Condi builds etc that deal way more damage than a skill shot like back stab. I think if you are wanting a melee play Warrior, if you want a stealth toon play Ranger. Thief is dead.

Wait, what? Ez mode? I wonder who has ez mode. If you want to find out who has it “easy” play my zerker staff ele full of AoE and CC and I’ll play your thief build. We will see who has it “easy” when I can reset all the fights I want, flee without possibly being caught and start any fight with a 50% head start on life points because I destroyed that much of your life pool before you even knew I was there…

That post is just ridiculous. I can understand some frustration after some nerfs but this is just shameful.

You do know that in the current Meta there are a lot of ez mode builds? Did he call out your specific Staff Ele build?(who would consider playing staff ele in a spvp environment anyway) No. He was pointing out the many ez mode builds out there compared to the current thief meta. Thief is in a decent spot, it just requires more skill than other Professions builds at the moment. Instead of buffing thief, builds such as the spammy grenade, bomb, turret engis need to be looked at, as well as the ranger LB/GS. Thief can beat these builds, in the hands of the right player. We dont need a cheesy build or buff that creates one, thief should always remain a class that demands tact and skill.

Maybe you want to read what OP said and what I actually said in reply to a specific portion of what was said.

BTW I do play a staff ele in spvp and WvW (solo roaming included) it works very well. I, however, would not dare call it “ez mode” even if I do have a lot of AoE that the OP allude to be what makes something “ez”.

I face tons of zero risk builds. I know what they look like and it is not their AoE that makes it ez for them but how many mistakes they can make before they get into trouble. How many mistake do you think you can make with a zerker geared staff ele you think?

Keyboardwarrior.8021:

Maugetarr.6823:

Keyboardwarrior.8021:

Maugetarr.6823:

Keyboardwarrior.8021:

This is a typical rapid fire vs backstab…..
One: push a button 1200 away…. single action… and the channel follows the target even when it’s in stealth….
The other: needs stealth, get into melee range, position right….

Sayirra really just busted me down 1200 away in 3 sec…

Interrupt the channel with headshot or steal. Equip daggerstorm and reflect it. You’d be surprised how many rangers keep firing into a daggerstorm. Stop putting points in defensive lines if you think your burst is too low.

I wish the skill range of thieves can be 1500 or 1200 to do what you said, in 2 sec of time….

Without any previous warning ahead… normally when you know it is rapid fire, it’s when you get it, then the channel just follows you, no matter what, is this hard to understand?

No, it’s not hard to understand, but it’s not hard to counter. As Sir Vincent Sw/D rangers are the things I worry about more. If they start from 1500 range, usually you can LoS them (in PvP). If getting into range is that much of a problem, you can trait steal to 1500 (wouldn’t recommend personally). Alternatively, you can use Infiltrator’s Arrow to close the gap by 900, then steal into them. Or infiltrator’s signet which is a decent counter to Point blank shot, which most LB rangers will open with so that you take more of the rapid fire. If you took off Assassin’s Signet, you could include IS and become more survivable. Alternatively, you could use SoA and have the extra dodges for defending against rapid fire while also increasing your burst potential slightly while it’s off CD. All channeled abilities follow you in stealth, as it’s been from day 1.

And as for the damage, I already provided you with roughly equivalent output in gif form.

so a thief has to sacrifice his damage, and most of his cool downs, just to fight against ranger’s one button? now I kind regret paying that $50 bucks for this game at the beginning…

Not necessarily, you could trait more offensively.