Guild Wars 2

Hi.

NOTE
- this is not a whine/complaint thread (even if it may sound like that) I play almost every class, so its not like “buff my class cuz its bad, u all so OP”
but just something that came to my mind.

Imho, i think they should update our class mechanic a bit.
NOT because it’s underpowered or something, but not just as FUN/ACTIVE as other classes.

I know they spoke about “maybe-whenitsfinished-soon-innearfuture” remove the need of a target to teleport.
but even so, i think its pretty lame considering what the other classes have in terms of how engaging their abilities are.

I mean look at mesmer, guardian, engi almost all classes have more depth in their class specific abilities.

I don’t have a complete rework for this in my mind. But something that would be fun is to take our poisons and throw them into f2-f4.
Make them coat or weapon for X amount of hits with cripple/bleed/stun or what ever. Just make it so you have to adapt more to the fight and to get an actuall choice.
Cuz I don’t really think its fun to be depended other classes/creeps to get some half decent ability.

That’s just my 2 cents. What do you guys think?

(I’m sorry about my english, it’s really crappy, but hope you’ll get my idea/point)

/Love Mirr

i just wish steal actually stole a random utility skill the class we stole it from had equipped instead of the boring set skills we steal now; i’m all for having venoms on f2-f4, (minus basilisk) because i feel that it’s too weak to use in place of other utility skills

Firstly, never apologise for bad English, yours is excellent and better than a LOT of people who speak it natively. Anyone who tries to attack you for your English is an ignorant kitten.

Secondly, I don’t think that putting poisons on our F-bar is the best idea, but I’m all for changing F1 to a steal + shadow step ability with return and F2 to using the stolen item.

hamsteak.1368:

i just wish steal actually stole a random utility skill the class we stole it from had equipped instead of the boring set skills we steal now; i’m all for having venoms on f2-f4, (minus basilisk) because i feel that it’s too weak to use in place of other utility skills

That’s funny, because it actually used to be very random in what it stole (I believe you could get any of the stealable items from any profession). However, it was argued by players that it was “too random” to be reliable, so they changed it to specific item steals so that thieves could plan on what they would steal.

Apparently RNG does not make for good class design… oh wait………..

But hey, some of those steal items are really good. The skulls, feathers, and plasma are my favourites.

To my opinion, even though I play a thief, the skills steal gives you is a little overpowered.
Necro: Fear
Ele: 10s chill… wtf?
Mesmer: Every boon for 10s… wtf?
Warrior: Axe whirl
Guardian: 3 or 4 second daze
The rest are fine, but the skills from ele and mes are way too OP…

I think that Reveal should but set back to 3 sec in wvw/pvp/pve. Over the time of guild wars 2 launch many have figured out how to counter thieves and now thieves with my play style (dagger dagger) find that survivability has is lot lower because the 4 sec (all you need do is block evade ect cloak and dagger). People are like well noob adapted and go to dagger pistol, its not my play style. Anet I get your trying to meet everyones needs but just keep this in mind.

Henrik.7560:

To my opinion, even though I play a thief, the skills steal gives you is a little overpowered.
Necro: Fear
Ele: 10s chill… wtf?
Mesmer: Every boon for 10s… wtf?
Warrior: Axe whirl
Guardian: 3 or 4 second daze
The rest are fine, but the skills from ele and mes are way too OP…

pve maybe….in pvp….u know thief has low hp low defnse right? whirl? onlyu use this 1 v1 or u deeeeeeeeeead lol. lots of incoming dmg no way to dodge with whirl up. fear? slow cast….use it while invis…best to save allies from a stomp…decent not op at all. guardian 4 sec daze? vvvvvvvery nice…however less than 50% of these lands with a 1.25 second activation/use time…..it almost never hits and in meantime ur taking dmg…..mesmer boons? very nice….well worth it i wont say anything although 10 seconds of boon sis nice….its more for escaping / blocking BS bc ur invis half the time bc defense /hp sucks. ele chill? now this is strong. but also like the guardian daze….. rarely hits. go look at thief videos…;people usually (inclucing me) end up just wasting these to get rid of them so they can use steal asap again….the teleport gap closer is stronger than all the skills l isted…..seriously go watch some pro thief videos…..they really dont use em/connect with em ……thief steal blind for 3 secs is prolly my favorite……..gunk being the worst for pvp…..best for PVE…… i am a thief and would….in any moment trade for any other f mechanic. we have 45 sec recharge…..for ONE F skill…other classes have 4 and less of a CD. hrm….. they could def rework it so its fun/gives us more to play with. im not even asking for anythign powerful. but even just that str8 forward telport with no target would make it atleast a lil more worthwhile. and with the mug nerf its hould be on a 30 sec timer. minimum.

I’d be happy if they just dropped or buffed tooth stab. 20 levels in and I’m just now getting used to stealing regularly, because the game kept turning me off to it by giving me this awful ability over and over.

Make it 4 or 5 stacks and ranged. And it doesn’t actually have to last a minute for no reason.

Travlane.5948:

Henrik.7560:

To my opinion, even though I play a thief, the skills steal gives you is a little overpowered.
Necro: Fear
Ele: 10s chill… wtf?
Mesmer: Every boon for 10s… wtf?
Warrior: Axe whirl
Guardian: 3 or 4 second daze
The rest are fine, but the skills from ele and mes are way too OP…

pve maybe….in pvp….u know thief has low hp low defnse right? whirl? onlyu use this 1 v1 or u deeeeeeeeeead lol. lots of incoming dmg no way to dodge with whirl up. fear? slow cast….use it while invis…best to save allies from a stomp…decent not op at all. guardian 4 sec daze? vvvvvvvery nice…however less than 50% of these lands with a 1.25 second activation/use time…..it almost never hits and in meantime ur taking dmg…..mesmer boons? very nice….well worth it i wont say anything although 10 seconds of boon sis nice….its more for escaping / blocking BS bc ur invis half the time bc defense /hp sucks. ele chill? now this is strong. but also like the guardian daze….. rarely hits. go look at thief videos…;people usually (inclucing me) end up just wasting these to get rid of them so they can use steal asap again….the teleport gap closer is stronger than all the skills l isted…..seriously go watch some pro thief videos…..they really dont use em/connect with em ……thief steal blind for 3 secs is prolly my favorite……..gunk being the worst for pvp…..best for PVE…… i am a thief and would….in any moment trade for any other f mechanic. we have 45 sec recharge…..for ONE F skill…other classes have 4 and less of a CD. hrm….. they could def rework it so its fun/gives us more to play with. im not even asking for anythign powerful. but even just that str8 forward telport with no target would make it atleast a lil more worthwhile. and with the mug nerf its hould be on a 30 sec timer. minimum.

nobody stands in the whirl it does soooo much dmg and what do you have to fear from afar? it destroys projectiles

I suggest adding an F2 skill, share the same CD with F1
and the effect is something defensive, such as stealth for 1-2s, a backward shadowstep or something that can help us survive

devaking.2397:

Travlane.5948:

Henrik.7560:

To my opinion, even though I play a thief, the skills steal gives you is a little overpowered.
Necro: Fear
Ele: 10s chill… wtf?
Mesmer: Every boon for 10s… wtf?
Warrior: Axe whirl
Guardian: 3 or 4 second daze
The rest are fine, but the skills from ele and mes are way too OP…

pve maybe….in pvp….u know thief has low hp low defnse right? whirl? onlyu use this 1 v1 or u deeeeeeeeeead lol. lots of incoming dmg no way to dodge with whirl up. fear? slow cast….use it while invis…best to save allies from a stomp…decent not op at all. guardian 4 sec daze? vvvvvvvery nice…however less than 50% of these lands with a 1.25 second activation/use time…..it almost never hits and in meantime ur taking dmg…..mesmer boons? very nice….well worth it i wont say anything although 10 seconds of boon sis nice….its more for escaping / blocking BS bc ur invis half the time bc defense /hp sucks. ele chill? now this is strong. but also like the guardian daze….. rarely hits. go look at thief videos…;people usually (inclucing me) end up just wasting these to get rid of them so they can use steal asap again….the teleport gap closer is stronger than all the skills l isted…..seriously go watch some pro thief videos…..they really dont use em/connect with em ……thief steal blind for 3 secs is prolly my favorite……..gunk being the worst for pvp…..best for PVE…… i am a thief and would….in any moment trade for any other f mechanic. we have 45 sec recharge…..for ONE F skill…other classes have 4 and less of a CD. hrm….. they could def rework it so its fun/gives us more to play with. im not even asking for anythign powerful. but even just that str8 forward telport with no target would make it atleast a lil more worthwhile. and with the mug nerf its hould be on a 30 sec timer. minimum.

nobody stands in the whirl it does soooo much dmg and what do you have to fear from afar? it destroys projectiles

ur so not a thief….very obvious. ur right…nobody “stands in whirl” however…..if a thief whirls it leaves them at “crippled” speed and yes they do dmg but if they are at half hp they are usually dead unless they roll out….this is bc anyone can immobilize …stun….and kill you fast…..bc …u know…thieves have that low hp/defense and all. basically as i was saying you ahve to use whirl at 66% hp or higher ….OR…ur really takinga gamble…..maybe not as much 1 v 1 but there is no 1 v1 situations that matter. so in the perspective of being able to play in team/group play (hence the game named guild wars rather than hero wars or hero quest :P) the whirl isnt really a gr8 skill….its great on warrior…..much much better bc they have the hp/defense to stand there and deal dmg while taking it same time. also u can get close enough to deal dmg to whilr without getting hit by it….same as black powder shot. and if ur jsut trying to argue…be constructive dont just pick peopel apart….bc choose 1 out or 9 things i mentioned doesnt break a point.

Raze.8467:

I’d be happy if they just dropped or buffed tooth stab. 20 levels in and I’m just now getting used to stealing regularly, because the game kept turning me off to it by giving me this awful ability over and over.

Make it 4 or 5 stacks and ranged. And it doesn’t actually have to last a minute for no reason.

the fact it lasts a min is its downfall….crap dmg as for DPS…..and im sure it will be gone b4 about 10 secs are up.

You start Axe Whirl on an unsuspecting melee target after a BP, so the whirl throws out handy blinding bolts. Though it is admittedly hard to use without BP – your best bet is to hit it in a big melee and dodgeroll out the second you start getting hit.

Thieves class mechanic in general needs to be reworked, steal was just a terrible idea from the start. When you look at all the other classes thief is the only one with a mechanic that is very limited.

Every other class can use their mechanic actively:
- Warrior every 10secs (8sec traited)
- Mesmer every 15 – 30 – 45 -60secs (11 – 23 – 34 – 46 traited)
- Necro every 10secs (5secs traited)
- Ranger’s is perma
- Guardian every 30 – 60 – 90sec (23 – 46 – 69sec when traited)
- Elementalist every 15secs (9secs traited)
- Engineer’s is varied depending on utility skills but all relatively short cooldowns (less when traited)

The only class that suffers due to its mechanic is thief with a 45secs cooldown (34 traited) and their mechanic consists of one skill, warrior may only have one as well but at least theirs is only on a 8secs cooldown when traited.

Thieves mechanic need to be reworked to something more active, one long cooldown skill just isnt cutting it.

Polite reminder that initiative is also a profession mechanic for the thief.

I just love the idea of splitting Steal into 3 different f-key abilities. F1 steals a weapon or attack item, such as the Whirling Axe; F2 steals something that can be used to cc like the Skull Fear or Mace Head Crack; and F3 steals a heal or defensive item, such as Consume Plasma or Eat Egg. Obviously, all of these would share a cooldown.

It’s been a much-repeated suggestion on the forums, but I think it has a lot of merit. It would help diversify Steal and give it a sense of tactical thinking.

Softspoken.2410:

Polite reminder that initiative is also a profession mechanic for the thief.

It may be unique to the Thief, but it really doesn’t apply here at all since it adds nothing new; it simply replaces an existing mechanic. And it’s actually much, much weaker mechanically than recharges in return for some extra versatility.
Other classes can use every skill on their bar, switch weapons, use every skill on that bar, switch again 10 seconds later and likely use many of the cooldowns on that bar again etc.
Thieves can use half the skills on one bar in succession, and get very little use out of ever weapon swapping.
On top of that, each Thief attack, despite being used less frequently, actually does LESS damage than most attack skills from other classes. Not more. Because oh God, they can use the same attack 2-3 times in a row! …..Followed by nothing at all for a bit.

Softspoken.2410:

Polite reminder that initiative is also a profession mechanic for the thief.

true but he is talking F mechanics……..intiative is our “cooldown”

Grimwolf.7163:

Softspoken.2410:

Polite reminder that initiative is also a profession mechanic for the thief.

It may be unique to the Thief, but it really doesn’t apply here at all since it adds nothing new; it simply replaces an existing mechanic. And it’s actually much, much weaker mechanically than recharges in return for some extra versatility.
Other classes can use every skill on their bar, switch weapons, use every skill on that bar, switch again 10 seconds later and likely use many of the cooldowns on that bar again etc.
Thieves can use half the skills on one bar in succession, and get very little use out of ever weapon swapping.
On top of that, each Thief attack, despite being used less frequently, actually does LESS damage than most attack skills from other classes. Not more. Because oh God, they can use the same attack 2-3 times in a row! …..Followed by nothing at all for a bit.

exactly. every class has 2 weaponset…..thief (in theory) only has 1. u attack skills 2 3 4 5 on any class then u can switch then go 2 3 4 5 again then switch in 2 secs and repeat most of them. a thief can do 2 attacks maybe 3 then switch and have none for a while. trade me if u like

Travlane.5948:

Grimwolf.7163:

Softspoken.2410:

Polite reminder that initiative is also a profession mechanic for the thief.

It may be unique to the Thief, but it really doesn’t apply here at all since it adds nothing new; it simply replaces an existing mechanic. And it’s actually much, much weaker mechanically than recharges in return for some extra versatility.
Other classes can use every skill on their bar, switch weapons, use every skill on that bar, switch again 10 seconds later and likely use many of the cooldowns on that bar again etc.
Thieves can use half the skills on one bar in succession, and get very little use out of ever weapon swapping.
On top of that, each Thief attack, despite being used less frequently, actually does LESS damage than most attack skills from other classes. Not more. Because oh God, they can use the same attack 2-3 times in a row! …..Followed by nothing at all for a bit.

exactly. every class has 2 weaponset…..thief (in theory) only has 1. u attack skills 2 3 4 5 on any class then u can switch then go 2 3 4 5 again then switch in 2 secs and repeat most of them. a thief can do 2 attacks maybe 3 then switch and have none for a while. trade me if u like

There’s also the downside that spammable attacks can’t have anything too good on them – you’ll never have Immob over 1s, a KD, a Blowout, a Knockback, a block or a skill that gives any substantial length boon and so on with any thief weaponskill because they’re spammable. I’m not saying thieves should have those things (they’d be clearly broken if spammable), but it’s a price thieves pay for having the ability to repeatedly use the same skill.

I love the Thief, but I would honestly rather have recharges than Initiative.
I could effectively use every skill, I could get good use out of weapon swapping, I could attack way more often, it would be easier to balance and less complained about, the attacks would likely deal more damage, and I could have more interesting effects on the attacks.
And in return, I can’t… what, spam Heartseeker? Cheese Stealth to troll people?

evilapprentice.6379:

Travlane.5948:

Grimwolf.7163:

Softspoken.2410:

Polite reminder that initiative is also a profession mechanic for the thief.

It may be unique to the Thief, but it really doesn’t apply here at all since it adds nothing new; it simply replaces an existing mechanic. And it’s actually much, much weaker mechanically than recharges in return for some extra versatility.
Other classes can use every skill on their bar, switch weapons, use every skill on that bar, switch again 10 seconds later and likely use many of the cooldowns on that bar again etc.
Thieves can use half the skills on one bar in succession, and get very little use out of ever weapon swapping.
On top of that, each Thief attack, despite being used less frequently, actually does LESS damage than most attack skills from other classes. Not more. Because oh God, they can use the same attack 2-3 times in a row! …..Followed by nothing at all for a bit.

exactly. every class has 2 weaponset…..thief (in theory) only has 1. u attack skills 2 3 4 5 on any class then u can switch then go 2 3 4 5 again then switch in 2 secs and repeat most of them. a thief can do 2 attacks maybe 3 then switch and have none for a while. trade me if u like

There’s also the downside that spammable attacks can’t have anything too good on them – you’ll never have Immob over 1s, a KD, a Blowout, a Knockback, a block or a skill that gives any substantial length boon and so on with any thief weaponskill because they’re spammable. I’m not saying thieves should have those things (they’d be clearly broken if spammable), but it’s a price thieves pay for having the ability to repeatedly use the same skill.

i agree…ur right…generally but im not asking/talking KDs and immobs. although that would be super right? check this out:

Skill Description

Mind Wrack 15 Destroy all clones & phantasms, dmg nearby foes.

Cry of Frustration 30 Destroy all clones & phantasms, confuse nearby foes.

Diversion 45 Destroy all clones & phantasms, dazing their targets.

Distortion 60 Destroy all clones & phantasms, gain distortion for each

distortion and daze are on longer cooldowns….however the most powerful….(in perspective you would NOT want to see them used on you) are confuse/burst dmg. phantasms and clones are made so fast…..soon as you kill 4 theres 4 more within 2 -3 seconds….. just hang out around them doing constant dmg…..get vigor and a larger pool of endurance for dodges and ur golden…ive seen it. use utilities to make them stronger etc. anyway im not saying to nerf mesmers…..but steal doesnt even do dmg. we MIGHT get a skill that does dmg at a very high risk like whirl….or we get a few seconds of buffs that dont last long bc we have to invis alot so :P eh…no biggie… our steal doesnt stun or do dmg or daze or anything….(not talking traiting bc i didnt add anything in with mes traiting to compare on a fair basis) steal is without a doubt come short of its other classes F mechanics. the only good thing about steal is that its a gap closer (in my opinion) and thats only bc we are always melee…..and thats bc ranged dmg for thief is impossible to use to kill anyone…(pistol auto and sb auto)

Grimwolf.7163:

Softspoken.2410:

Polite reminder that initiative is also a profession mechanic for the thief.

It may be unique to the Thief, but it really doesn’t apply here at all since it adds nothing new; it simply replaces an existing mechanic. And it’s actually much, much weaker mechanically than recharges in return for some extra versatility.
Other classes can use every skill on their bar, switch weapons, use every skill on that bar, switch again 10 seconds later and likely use many of the cooldowns on that bar again etc.
Thieves can use half the skills on one bar in succession, and get very little use out of ever weapon swapping.
On top of that, each Thief attack, despite being used less frequently, actually does LESS damage than most attack skills from other classes. Not more. Because oh God, they can use the same attack 2-3 times in a row! …..Followed by nothing at all for a bit.

Not gonna argue if initiative is good or not. In my experience, if you’re on the Thief forum initiative is overly restrictive, and according to most other profession forums it allows them to spam their skills too easily. So I can’t take either side entirely at face value any more.

But I am going to argue that initiative is a core part of thief design that extends to a lot of their play style, so the post implying that thieves only have a 45 second cooldown for their profession-specific mechanic grated on me.

Personally? I’d be good with storing a few stolen items on F2 – F4, with the caveat that anything after the first item had to be used within a certain timeframe, or that stolen skills now uniformly expire after X seconds.

Henrik.7560:

To my opinion, even though I play a thief, the skills steal gives you is a little overpowered.
Necro: Fear
Ele: 10s chill… wtf?
Mesmer: Every boon for 10s… wtf?
Warrior: Axe whirl
Guardian: 3 or 4 second daze
The rest are fine, but the skills from ele and mes are way too OP…

considering that mesmers never get access to all boons. :/

Softspoken.2410:

Personally? I’d be good with storing a few stolen items on F2 – F4, with the caveat that anything after the first item had to be used within a certain timeframe, or that stolen skills now uniformly expire after X seconds.

I like the idea of storing 2 or 3 items for strategic use.

Really like some of the idea’s here keep posting to bring this subject some attention.
How about something like this:

F1 Steal ( Same as now?, maybe only give you a offensive bundle for balance it out? )

F2 Cloak – Vanishing in stealth for 3s while gaining initiative.

F3 Retreat – Roll backwards and gain Protection 5s.

Don’t know if it would be op, tbh i don’t think so. It would help us a lot in survivability both in PvE and Pvp, not in teamfights tho..
I want something thats helpful in teamfights/teamplay i.e dungeons,tpvp.
Both in terms of viability & contributing ( the need to bring a thief ) And in terms of the need for a class to be fun to play in team scenarios. tbh, a ressbot/cluster spammer isn’t that fun. ( i know we can dish out top dps in pve, tho 90% of the community doesn’t )
Buuuuuut i can’t come up with such ideas. Not something good atleast.
Maybe those additions should be in our utility skills?

Bah it’s to early.. this became a wall of text, my brain is just a mess :P it’s just some ideas, and maybe its bad, but opens up ideas for other ppl etc. so keep posting suggestions for the future of our thievery !

peace

dECA.2370:

Really like some of the idea’s here keep posting to bring this subject some attention.
How about something like this:

F1 Steal ( Same as now?, maybe only give you a offensive bundle for balance it out? )

F2 Cloak – Vanishing in stealth for 3s while gaining initiative.

F3 Retreat – Roll backwards and gain Protection 5s.

I rly like the idea

Maybe i will revive my older thread and add this to the list

But unfortunately stuff like that disappears way to fast in this huge forum…

So many other QQ and whine threads

Post a simple suggestion in the suggestion forum and the next day its on page 3 and nobody will ever read it again.

dECA.2370:

Really like some of the idea’s here keep posting to bring this subject some attention.
How about something like this:

F1 Steal ( Same as now?, maybe only give you a offensive bundle for balance it out? )

F2 Cloak – Vanishing in stealth for 3s while gaining initiative.

F3 Retreat – Roll backwards and gain Protection 5s.

---

i ac___

Don’t know if it would be op, tbh i don’t think so. It would help us a lot in survivability both in PvE and Pvp, not in teamfights tho..
I want something thats helpful in teamfights/teamplay i.e dungeons,tpvp.
Both in terms of viability & contributing ( the need to bring a thief ) And in terms of the need for a class to be fun to play in team scenarios. tbh, a ressbot/cluster spammer isn’t that fun. ( i know we can dish out top dps in pve, tho 90% of the community doesn’t )
Buuuuuut i can’t come up with such ideas. Not something good atleast.
Maybe those additions should be in our utility skills?

Bah it’s to early.. this became a wall of text, my brain is just a mess :P it’s just some ideas, and maybe its bad, but opens up ideas for other ppl etc. so keep posting suggestions for the future of our thievery !

peace

i actually REALLY like this idea….not OP…seems fair with only 5 sec protection for emergencies and an extra stealth so we can actually use diff utilities for once. i second this idea! and only offensive uses on f1…..we are thieves :P everyclass f mechanic has access to dmg but us…i mean we have a chance at whirl…but its risky to use too.

I wish thief could steal skills permanently. If anyone played a stalker in Ragnarok Online, you know what i mean.

Of course some skills should be restricted because it would be very op on the thief.