Guild Wars 2

It’s getting ridicolous, there’s no way in hell we can somehow remove that much conditions with our current remove condition set. I run S/D with signet of agility and runes of lyssa and that’s pretty much as close as how much cond removal we have (if not traited into SA) and it’s very poor tbh.

Signet of spite itself will just stack 4-5 (can’t recall) different conditions on us which we either are spec’d into SA or we have to remove 1 by1, yes 1 by 1. Spending ALL of our initiative and 1 utility just to counter that, and by the time we did that we are already dead because that necro/warrior/mesmer/DP thief is literally applying new conditions every second which we have to eat through.

Suggestions:
Signet of Agility removes ALL conditions on you.
Fleet of Foot: Moved to Grandmaster tier and removes 1 condition on dodge (hard to catch moves to master since it’s a poorly designed trait)
Shadow return: With the next update nerfing the hell out of this would be nice if it could remove TWO conditions instead of 1.

TLDR: Our condition removal is pathetic and so is our sustain and this need some HUGE Buffs.

It’s sad that we absolutely need Lyssa runes in order to mildly compete in the meta. No class should be forced into a rune set just to clear conditions. We need more reliable and fast condition removal that doesn’t rely on stealth.

We also need our condi removals on Pain Response and Hide in Shadows to also remove torment.

Our only way to remove torment right now is 10 into SA (every 3 secs in stealth, which really forces you to go even deeper into SA to be effective) or lucky sig of agility, or lucky shadow return.

I feel that to catch up with all of the condi meta, we need HiS and PR to remove torment, and we need condis to be removed on the first half of Shadow Step, not the second.

Forcing us to go SA for reliable condi removal, and/or to go lyssa is redonk. We don’t have the HP pool to muck about.

I’ve always day dreamed that scorpion wire would be awesome if it ripped a boon and/or transferred a condi. Leeching venoms is another good candidate for a buff, making it transfer a condi on strike.

Woaden.9425:

We also need our condi removals on Pain Response and Hide in Shadows to also remove torment.

Our only way to remove torment right now is 10 into SA (every 3 secs in stealth, which really forces you to go even deeper into SA to be effective) or lucky sig of agility, or lucky shadow return.

I feel that to catch up with all of the condi meta, we need HiS and PR to remove torment, and we need condis to be removed on the first half of Shadow Step, not the second.

Forcing us to go SA for reliable condi removal, and/or to go lyssa is redonk. We don’t have the HP pool to muck about.

I’ve always day dreamed that scorpion wire would be awesome if it ripped a boon and/or transferred a condi. Leeching venoms is another good candidate for a buff, making it transfer a condi on strike.

I would definitely run leeching venoms if it transferred a condition on each adrenaline strike. That alone would make thief a hard counter to the conditionmancer, which has no hard counters.

We don’t have it any worse than most other classes, sorry.

When will you realise NO ONE takes you seriously Sanduskel. Please give up.

Sons.5493:

When will you realise NO ONE takes you seriously Sanduskel. Please give up.

That’s okay. You aren’t my target audience, lol.

This time he is actually right, for the most part we don’t have worse than most classes. The point remains, it is still a problem, it is just a game wide problem not a thief problem. Condition stacking is out of control compared to the condition removal alternatives of ALL classes.

To be honest, if you’re playing S/D and you think that it’s difficult for you to condi cleanse, then you’re just playing sword wrong and you’re probably little more than a bad player. Evasion and Shadow Return are practically the only two tools that I use to condi cleanse/counter (in WvW, mind you, since I have so little money; in sPvP I also use Lyssa Runes), and I do it with ruthless efficiency.

That being said, I do agree that Signet of Spite is quite possibly the most OP utility in the game; if a necro lands it on you, you’re probably dead (unless you have a really good escape card), and that’s all there is to it. There’s no way to consciously counter it, and the amount of conditions and the debilitation is so large that it becomes almost impossible to do anything but just stand in place and die. However, if I have it off CD, then I’ll instantly burn my Shadowstep for the condi removal. Doesn’t always save me though; still have 3 condis left on me.

EDIT: I will say, though, that many weaponsets and builds are inviable because of condition removal. Truth is, our utilities aren’t very good for removing condis (unless in extreme situations, like the Signet of Spite one aforementioned), so we have to either rely on traits or weapon abilities to remove conditions. Needless to say, this is very, very bad for people who either want to play a certain way or people who want to play a certain weaponset.

‘Thieves’ do not lack for condition removal. It’s only non-stealth thieves. Most classes have to spec a certain way if they want heavy, frequent condi-clears, and thieves are no different.

As others have said, this is more an issue with the current condi-heavy meta than it is with our class.

Arganthium.5638:

To be honest, if you’re playing S/D and you think that it’s difficult for you to condi cleanse, then you’re just playing sword wrong and you’re probably little more than a bad player. Evasion and Shadow Return are practically the only two tools that I use to condi cleanse/counter (in WvW, mind you, since I have so little money; in sPvP I also use Lyssa Runes), and I do it with ruthless efficiency.

Well, it’s not that i’m the best but i ain’t the worst (Rank 232 in EU), but that’s not the point. Shadow Return is not Efective in terms of combat to be used as condition removal, by the simpel fact a dhuumfire necro will just apply 4-6 conditions in les that 6 seconds and after if u ever manage to remove them he’ll just reapply them but that also may be (as a lot of people stated) the current condi meta.

Anyway, seems like instead of buffing the thief cond removal (or in game cond removal in general for all classes that lacks it) we just have to wait for cond nerf?

Oghier.7419:

‘Thieves’ do not lack for condition removal. It’s only non-stealth thieves. Most classes have to spec a certain way if they want heavy, frequent condi-clears, and thieves are no different.

As others have said, this is more an issue with the current condi-heavy meta than it is with our class.

Read carefully:

>Forced to invest into SA

Sanduskel.1850:

Sons.5493:

When will you realise NO ONE takes you seriously Sanduskel. Please give up.

That’s okay. You aren’t my target audience, lol.

Do you even have an audience?

Sons.5493:

Arganthium.5638:

To be honest, if you’re playing S/D and you think that it’s difficult for you to condi cleanse, then you’re just playing sword wrong and you’re probably little more than a bad player. Evasion and Shadow Return are practically the only two tools that I use to condi cleanse/counter (in WvW, mind you, since I have so little money; in sPvP I also use Lyssa Runes), and I do it with ruthless efficiency.

Well, it’s not that i’m the best but i ain’t the worst (Rank 232 in EU), but that’s not the point. Shadow Return is not Efective in terms of combat to be used as condition removal, by the simpel fact a dhuumfire necro will just apply 4-6 conditions in les that 6 seconds and after if u ever manage to remove them he’ll just reapply them but that also may be (as a lot of people stated) the current condi meta.

Anyway, seems like instead of buffing the thief cond removal (or in game cond removal in general for all classes that lacks it) we just have to wait for cond nerf?

Well, whether or not thief condi removal is good, condi nerf still needs to happen anyways. It’s insane what’s happening right now with necro condis, and I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a necro use marks strategically.

Arganthium.5638:

I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a necro use marks strategically.

This so much

Auesis.7301:

Sanduskel.1850:

Sons.5493:

When will you realise NO ONE takes you seriously Sanduskel. Please give up.

That’s okay. You aren’t my target audience, lol.

Do you even have an audience?

I really wish there was a way to block someone on the forums. Whenever I read something stupid in the Thief sub-forum it’s almost always this Sanduskel kid.

At least there should be a way to down vote so her responses get hidden or grayed out.

Sons.5493:

Suggestions:
Signet of Agility removes ALL conditions on you.
Fleet of Foot: Moved to Grandmaster tier and removes 1 condition on dodge (hard to catch moves to master since it’s a poorly designed trait)
Shadow return: With the next update nerfing the hell out of this would be nice if it could remove TWO conditions instead of 1.

TLDR: Our condition removal is pathetic and so is our sustain and this need some HUGE Buffs.

IMO thief condition removal is fine. You have sword 2, shadowstep, lyssa runes, and the stealth heal skill if you choose to pick it. The options for even more condi removal are there, but you choose not to pick them.

Signet of agility would be broken if it removed all conditions.

I do think the shadow return nerf is a bit much though…. but that doesn’t change the fact that thieves still have ample condi removal. This skill is a whole different story though so i wont get into it. I just believe thieves need instant shadow return in spvp only.

honovi.7893:

Sons.5493:

Suggestions:
Signet of Agility removes ALL conditions on you.
Fleet of Foot: Moved to Grandmaster tier and removes 1 condition on dodge (hard to catch moves to master since it’s a poorly designed trait)
Shadow return: With the next update nerfing the hell out of this would be nice if it could remove TWO conditions instead of 1.

TLDR: Our condition removal is pathetic and so is our sustain and this need some HUGE Buffs.

IMO thief condition removal is fine. You have sword 2, shadowstep, lyssa runes, and the stealth heal skill if you choose to pick it. The options for even more condi removal are there, but you choose not to pick them.

Signet of agility would be broken if it removed all conditions.

I do think the shadow return nerf is a bit much though…. but that doesn’t change the fact that thieves still have ample condi removal. This skill is a whole different story though so i wont get into it. I just believe thieves need instant shadow return in spvp only.

So if you want to play a p/p or d/p thief that doesnt abuse stealth, or a SB thief, and you really like withdraw or SoM you’re basicly forced to use a runeset and an elite to get okay condi removal every 45 sec. That doesn’t seem right. There should be some better condi removal in another traitline, something active that removes damaging conditions.

Oh, and with the permastealth removal, can you make it so d/p thiefs benefit from the 1 second extra stealth trait. Please?

Lifeson.4352:

honovi.7893:

Sons.5493:

Suggestions:
Signet of Agility removes ALL conditions on you.
Fleet of Foot: Moved to Grandmaster tier and removes 1 condition on dodge (hard to catch moves to master since it’s a poorly designed trait)
Shadow return: With the next update nerfing the hell out of this would be nice if it could remove TWO conditions instead of 1.

TLDR: Our condition removal is pathetic and so is our sustain and this need some HUGE Buffs.

IMO thief condition removal is fine. You have sword 2, shadowstep, lyssa runes, and the stealth heal skill if you choose to pick it. The options for even more condi removal are there, but you choose not to pick them.

Signet of agility would be broken if it removed all conditions.

I do think the shadow return nerf is a bit much though…. but that doesn’t change the fact that thieves still have ample condi removal. This skill is a whole different story though so i wont get into it. I just believe thieves need instant shadow return in spvp only.

So if you want to play a p/p or d/p thief that doesnt abuse stealth, or a SB thief, and you really like withdraw or SoM you’re basicly forced to use a runeset and an elite to get okay condi removal every 45 sec. That doesn’t seem right. There should be some better condi removal in another traitline, something active that removes damaging conditions.

Oh, and with the permastealth removal, can you make it so d/p thiefs benefit from the 1 second extra stealth trait. Please?

Welcome to the club. Try getting good condi removal on engi without elexir. Try getting good condi removal on warr without cleansing ire. Try getting good condi removal on guard without going into defensive trees. Try getting good condi removal on ranger without empathetic bond. Try getting good condi removal on Mes without having to spec into a useless tree or filling up your toolbar. etc…

Every class has to make sacrifices for condi removal. I dont see why thieves should be any different. You guys have plenty of clears to start with.

Sons.5493:

Oghier.7419:

‘Thieves’ do not lack for condition removal. It’s only non-stealth thieves. Most classes have to spec a certain way if they want heavy, frequent condi-clears, and thieves are no different.

As others have said, this is more an issue with the current condi-heavy meta than it is with our class.

Read carefully:

>Forced to invest into SA

I’ll repeat my point: Almost every class is forced to invest into a particular set of traits if they want frequent clears of multiple conditions. For thieves, that happens to be the SA tree.

The heavy condition meta is the issue. Every class can get some light condi-clears through utilities. Most folks have concluded, however, that they need a lot more clears a lot more often, thus requiring a heavy investment in doing just that. We’re hardly unique in this requirement.

honovi.7893:

Lifeson.4352:

honovi.7893:

Sons.5493:

Suggestions:
Signet of Agility removes ALL conditions on you.
Fleet of Foot: Moved to Grandmaster tier and removes 1 condition on dodge (hard to catch moves to master since it’s a poorly designed trait)
Shadow return: With the next update nerfing the hell out of this would be nice if it could remove TWO conditions instead of 1.

TLDR: Our condition removal is pathetic and so is our sustain and this need some HUGE Buffs.

IMO thief condition removal is fine. You have sword 2, shadowstep, lyssa runes, and the stealth heal skill if you choose to pick it. The options for even more condi removal are there, but you choose not to pick them.

Signet of agility would be broken if it removed all conditions.

I do think the shadow return nerf is a bit much though…. but that doesn’t change the fact that thieves still have ample condi removal. This skill is a whole different story though so i wont get into it. I just believe thieves need instant shadow return in spvp only.

So if you want to play a p/p or d/p thief that doesnt abuse stealth, or a SB thief, and you really like withdraw or SoM you’re basicly forced to use a runeset and an elite to get okay condi removal every 45 sec. That doesn’t seem right. There should be some better condi removal in another traitline, something active that removes damaging conditions.

Oh, and with the permastealth removal, can you make it so d/p thiefs benefit from the 1 second extra stealth trait. Please?

Welcome to the club. Try getting good condi removal on engi without elexir. Try getting good condi removal on warr without cleansing ire. Try getting good condi removal on guard without going into defensive trees. Try getting good condi removal on ranger without empathetic bond. Try getting good condi removal on Mes without having to spec into a useless tree or filling up your toolbar. etc…

Every class has to make sacrifices for condi removal. I dont see why thieves should be any different. You guys have plenty of clears to start with.

It’s just stupid that in this condi-heavy meta, all thief condi removal is tied to stealth, nullifying specs that doesn’t use stealth.

I’d be happy with a trait in Acrobatics that removes 1 condition per dodge roll.

TeamBattleAxe.3901:

I’d be happy with a trait in Acrobatics that removes 1 condition per dodge roll.

Combine Fleet Foot and Hard to Catch, making dodges a) break stuns or b) remove 1 condition on roll.

honovi.7893:

Lifeson.4352:

honovi.7893:

Sons.5493:

Suggestions:
Signet of Agility removes ALL conditions on you.
Fleet of Foot: Moved to Grandmaster tier and removes 1 condition on dodge (hard to catch moves to master since it’s a poorly designed trait)
Shadow return: With the next update nerfing the hell out of this would be nice if it could remove TWO conditions instead of 1.

TLDR: Our condition removal is pathetic and so is our sustain and this need some HUGE Buffs.

IMO thief condition removal is fine. You have sword 2, shadowstep, lyssa runes, and the stealth heal skill if you choose to pick it. The options for even more condi removal are there, but you choose not to pick them.

Signet of agility would be broken if it removed all conditions.

I do think the shadow return nerf is a bit much though…. but that doesn’t change the fact that thieves still have ample condi removal. This skill is a whole different story though so i wont get into it. I just believe thieves need instant shadow return in spvp only.

So if you want to play a p/p or d/p thief that doesnt abuse stealth, or a SB thief, and you really like withdraw or SoM you’re basicly forced to use a runeset and an elite to get okay condi removal every 45 sec. That doesn’t seem right. There should be some better condi removal in another traitline, something active that removes damaging conditions.

Oh, and with the permastealth removal, can you make it so d/p thiefs benefit from the 1 second extra stealth trait. Please?

Welcome to the club. Try getting good condi removal on engi without elexir. Try getting good condi removal on warr without cleansing ire. Try getting good condi removal on guard without going into defensive trees. Try getting good condi removal on ranger without empathetic bond. Try getting good condi removal on Mes without having to spec into a useless tree or filling up your toolbar. etc…

Every class has to make sacrifices for condi removal. I dont see why thieves should be any different. You guys have plenty of clears to start with.

This^ in a nutshell.

TBH, watching Thiefs talking about about non-stealth builds is like a Mesmer talking about not using clones.
Get over it people, we are getting nerfed again. Stop nerfing yourselves even more.

SoulSin.5682:

TBH, watching Thiefs talking about about non-stealth builds is like a Mesmer talking about not using clones.

^

AYxC.3850:

SoulSin.5682:

TBH, watching Thiefs talking about about non-stealth builds is like a Mesmer talking about not using clones.

^

Why shouldn’t we have the option to play without stealth? Until they make Withraw and Roll For Initiative both leap finishers, Sword/Pistol and Pistol/Pistol will always be minimal stealth builds with very little access to it – only through utilities and lucky steals. You can’t be ignorant of the fact that these two weapon sets aren’t built for stealth, and thusly can’t force it down our throats when we want to pick up said sets.

Talking about other classes also being forced in to specific specs for condi removal is all well and good until you realise that those “forced” specs are actually desirable in tPvP anyway eg. Hambow. A Shadow Arts-based Thief build for tPvP is a joke.

In essence, yes, we cannot have good condition removal for serious PvP because all builds that could possibly incorporate it are hilariously awful for use in the game mode. This is a boundary that builds like Hambow do not have.

I havent really reserached this, but I saw that Givers armor are now craftable. That`s the equipment that increases condition duration right? How will Givers stats on weapons + armor affect us thieves if we`re unable to clear conditions without for example Lyssa runes?