Guild Wars 2

From years one of the biggest problems as regards the classes of this game box that are very bad balanced.
Inparticular the class Thief.
The thief is a class “body to body” but has armor leatherwork and 0 skills for help in battle “body to body” and in Pve and hasn’t Perma-Stealth!
[MY OPINION] for fix this problem is or 1 perma skill passive “+30% block and reflect” fisical and conditional Dmg or the increase of “Backstab” and all skills.

NB: Ths game is beautifull for me, but this summer many players try for fun game box crowfall online and mmo Bless online, Icarus online, Black desert online, Eos, Nothing to dark, Vindictus, League of Legends and wow (vindictus and League of Legends and wow aren’t new game 2015 ), etc… Becouse the problems classes bad balanced + bugs + Lag in W-Event and WvsW after a while is very boring!

Thanks for read my post.

If i understand correctly, you’re saying that a thief is a melee class but has medium armor and no skills to help in pve-melee ?

1. while thief is a melee class, they have plenty of skills to aid them in battle.
2. dodging, evading….. sound familiar ?

Those are the things that make a thief better, and if you cannot survive long enough to take down mobs or bosses, then you should think about using a different gear setup or choosing different traits/skills to play with.

Thieves are squishy from the get go, but you can adapt to that or change their setup so they have a better chance.

Rangers can do melee, and they have the same armor set. I don’t see them complaining about having ‘only’ medium armor.

It doesn’t need extra mitigtion except for some potentially better condition cleansing.
It definitely doesn’t need extra backstab modifiers.

The thief is one of those classes that is important to utilize its mechanics and learn its nuances. You cannot charge into battle head-first and not utilize your defenses and expect any other outcome than death.

Yeah, a thief’s defense has nothing to do with its armor. It could be light armor and I dont think it would matter that much.

Also, dont discount Shortbow as a ranged weapon. Honestly, once you learn thief, your skills with other classes become that much better because you learn really quick how not to rely on passive defenses like armor and vitality.

Keep chucking at thief and you will get it.

D/D has also been proven to be rather outdated except in WvW roaming and that is mostly due to people’s reaction times are generally less skilled than a computer’s.

I think people have been running sword/Pistol in PvE but Im not completely sure as I dont PvE.

Naah, the thieves i’ve seen run with either D/D or D/P in open pve, some run with D/D and SB, a few with S/P.

It all depends where you go in fact. But the way to learn D/D is just use it in open world pve since it doesn’t matter there. You’ll quickly learn the different setups with their strenghts/weaknesses and you can adapt accordingly.

I’ve played since launch, play d/d stealth thief most every day, full ascended and all decked out with expensive skins. I don’t understand the problem you are having… it’s an excellent class the way it is. I’m just hoping HoT doesn’t screw it up is all. It’s a strong PvE and WvW class. If you want a better class for spvp, just hit the magic make-over insta-win button and do something else for a moment. As for whatever games you are worried about, I don’t care hah.

@Sthenith.5196: 2. dodging, evading….. sound familiar ?
Khahahaha..! Man…

@Sthenith.5196: Rangers can do melee
Yeah.. go to play with a Ranger melee and Good Game ^^

@DeceiverX.8361: […]
condition cleansing? Mmh Signet of Agility or traits Shadow embrance, etc… remember :?
But Good answer.. becouse the Assassin or Thief hasn’t the Perma-steath and the Signet of Agility remove 1 condition.

@DeceiverX.8361: your defenses?
Defenses of the Thief d/d :? lol

@Sthenith.5196: Rangers can do melee
Yeah.. go to play with a Ranger melee and Good Game ^^

The point was that rangers don’t complain about being medium armors even though some(most) of the rangers use GS or S/Axe as secondary weapon.

Thieves are already high dmg dealers, there’s no need for us to have heavy armor. And it would look utterly rediculous.

Sein.5160:

@Sthenith.5196: 2. dodging, evading….. sound familiar ?
Khahahaha..! Man…

@Sthenith.5196: Rangers can do melee
Yeah.. go to play with a Ranger melee and Good Game ^^

@DeceiverX.8361: […]
condition cleansing? Mmh Signet of Agility or traits Shadow embrance, etc… remember :?
But Good answer.. becouse the Assassin or Thief hasn’t the Perma-steath and the Signet of Agility remove 1 condition.

@DeceiverX.8361: your defenses?
Defenses of the Thief d/d :? lol

The thief as a whole lacks good condition cleansing options due to its low base health compared to all other low health classes. Most notably, it lacks this for builds which do not have access to stealth, such as shortbow, P/P or S/P. Signet of agility is a joke as a cleanse and otherwise the only useful for the endurance, and even then is comparatively bad because signets are an aggressive build and acrobatics already gets good evades and uses other utilities better.

D/D offers intermitent stealth and an evade with heartseeker as a gap opener. Use those and another weapon to get your defenses taken care of. The set is designed with only damage in mind.

D/D, or the thief as a whole, needs no other changes than some small non-stealth condition cleansing that isn’t tied to one specific trait line that makes the class too easy and too passive.

Sthenith.5196:

The point was that rangers don’t complain about being medium armors even though some(most) of the rangers use GS or S/Axe as secondary weapon.

That’s not true at all. A popular Ranger build have Signet of Stone as a staple for this very reason that Medium Armor simply doesn’t offer enough.

Thieves are already high dmg dealers, there’s no need for us to have heavy armor. And it would look utterly rediculous.

Compare to other medium armor wearer? Sure we do.

Not to mention, both Engi and Ranger has base HP of 15k while Thief has 10K.

That, IMHO, is what’s ridiculous.

Hey don’t count D/D thieves out. Useful in boss fights cause we evade with Death Blossoms at just that right moment. To describe D/D: “Can’t touch dis… NA NA NA NA”

Also shortbow is mostly ranged but I find it not completely useless if you need to use explosives when they get close. What do you know, if you blow someone up multiple times, they lose intrest. :P

To Sir Vincent III:
Thieves don’t need that health because we have more evades than other classes so we end up taking less damage in the first place. Still, I like to focus on vitality and toughness with my thief.

thunderfall.8095:

To Sir Vincent III:
Thieves don’t need that health because we have more evades than other classes so we end up taking less damage in the first place. Still, I like to focus on vitality and toughness with my thief.

When you start evading condition damage, then we can talk.

D/D’s problem lies in the fact you only really use 2/4 skills regardless of the build. Additionally the evasion from death blossom is usually a death sentence since the animation lasts longer than the evade frame and that it simply leaps at the target.

They should consider reworking death blossom’s mechanics to be a full evade, and be a skill shot because simply having swiftness and strafing or backing up a little makes it miss very much and useless. Even if a small nerf to the bleed duration is needed to balance such a buff, I think it would be a lot more reliable for power.

Then they should either think of a new skill for dagger #4 or add some synergy a thief could use with this skill. For power they could just heartseeker, do more damage and close the gap just as well as slowing the enemy with #4, for condition they could do the same thing and heartseeker, pop death blossom, etc. Also a leap finisher is almost always better than a projectile so you get that bonus too.

Something like giving us more access to combo fields, preferably dark or etheral, to utilize the projectile portion because it does count each bounce, or to transfer a condition if you hit a 2nd foe to give. It’d be nice to add some utility to this skill that could benefit d/d w/o giving s/d or p/d too much. It’d be tricky for sure but dagger #4 isn’t useful on any build except for when you come across a combo field which seems silly given how few thief has.

Lastly, make the trait dagger training reduce the cost of OH dagger skills by 1 initiative for 2 reasons. First this makes the trait much more valuable to compete against mug and secondly this makes OH dagger that much more forgiving to compete against OH pistol. Although CnD still won’t be a guratuneed stealth like BPS+HS, it won’t be as punishing to miss it + w/e buff is made to dagger #4 is that much stronger as well.

I understand I’m in the minority here, but…

I love Dancing Dagger.

DB is shaky, and I’d rather see an upped evade and a blood nerf (condi 3spam criers will fight to the ends of the earth to allow this, though), but please do leave my Dancing Dagger, unless all that is meant to change is the projectile reliability. That cripple allows for an incredible amount of lockdown on high-movespeed targets such as war/engi/ele, it can pop Guard Aegis without going into combat, and the bounce damage is fairly high when trying to defend a keep wall without a ranged option at the time (I primarily use D/D + S/D).

I really do like the premise of DB operating like warrior’s Whirlwind Attack (fixed damage/linear gap closer with decent range), even if the evade duration isn’t improved, just to allow the skill to be used as a better evasion tool/relocation tool..

DeceiverX.8361:

..please do leave my Dancing Dagger..

I second that plea, it’s been my go to skill when other skills can often be at the mercy of game bugs or finicky terrain. It’s also been reliable to quickly tag targets and helps a little in choke points when you need to clog it up while standing back a little.

Sir Vincent III: You are right. Thieves need a decent condition removal skill. HEAR THAT A-NET! US THIEVES NEED CONDITION REMOVAL!

And to DecieverX and Kash, please teach me how to use DD effectively. I rarely use it, though I know I should. If I need range, I just go to shortbow.

thunderfall.8095:

And to DecieverX and Kash, please teach me how to use DD effectively. I rarely use it, though I know I should. If I need range, I just go to shortbow.

The only real use is with a combo field because A it is a guaranteed combo finisher and B it bounces so it will reapply the effect. Outside of that there is no good use of DD.

Another thing: I find D/D and thief in general a good class for any structured PvP because they can’t leave the point unless they know you aren’t right there ready to recapture it. I usually fight, pull back, stealth, then go back in when everyone leaves and take the point. Gets them every time.

thunderfall.8095:

Sir Vincent III: You are right. Thieves need a decent condition removal skill. HEAR THAT A-NET! US THIEVES NEED CONDITION REMOVAL!

Not just condi removal but also increase in base HP, more inline with other medium armor wearer.

Well, we don’t need more health if we have condition removal.

thunderfall.8095:

Well, we don’t need more health if we have condition removal.

If that is true, then Ranger and Engi should also have 10k HP since they also have access to condition removal.

IMHO, it is more feasible to just rebalance the Thief’s HP to match the other two than rebalance the other two to match the Thief, won’t you agree?

thunderfall.8095:

And to DecieverX and Kash, please teach me how to use DD effectively. I rarely use it, though I know I should. If I need range, I just go to shortbow.

There’s no pressing reason why you should use it, it’s not great when you review the Thief as a whole. I use it a lot because it’s something I can use for three initiative that slows people down to bunch up badguys together, does a little bouncing damage (which has finished off trebs from defender bounces where even my short bow couldn’t manage the angle), and I can use it from range on the borders of zergs. So, it’s more a thing for a floater like me who pokes zergs a little too much.

I think they should make Death Blossom where instead of jumping off the ground, you spin in place like a mini dagger storm and make it where you can CANCEL it so I dont get gunned down from using one skill that I have a 50% chance of landing in the first place.

thunderfall.8095:

And to DecieverX and Kash, please teach me how to use DD effectively. I rarely use it, though I know I should. If I need range, I just go to shortbow.

Mostly as a means to catch up to running foes. The cripple duration from DD is long, and if it gets a return bounce, can be devastating if not cleansed.

I play D/D + (now) S/D for WvW rather than using a shortbow, so I also often find myself throwing tons of daggers into the blob if I’m not able to get in/out well and seeing what happens.

You can also led in with a DD and during it’s flight time use steal/etc and the dagger will come in as a follow-up hit immediately after, or do so to get your opponents to burn dodges on DD and more reliably combo into them afterwards.

Thieves do not need Heavy armor. Actually armor classes don’t matter in the slightest in this game. D/D Elementalists are one of the tankiest professions despite have the absolute lowest Health pool and armor class in the game.

If you’re having trouble with D/D, switch to S/P in dungeons for PvE and use the 3 evade spam or 5 blind spam.

@Axyl.9408: “Actually armor classes don’t matter in the slightest in this game”
LoL

@Axyl.9408: “If you’re having trouble with D/D, switch to S/P”
1) For ME is funny Thief d/d but class thief d/d have problems and I open post in “Profession Thief” for discuss with the players thief of problems and looking good ideas for solving this problems;
2) Ty for advice but No ty, Thief S/P is boring for ME.

@Sein Then try P/P. You can’t complain Unload isn’t cool. Admit it: Unload is really gangstery and swigity swigity swags.

@thunderfall.8095: “Then try P/P. You can’t complain Unload isn’t cool. Admit it: Unload is really gangstery and swigity swigity swags.”

Thief P/P remember me cit. of the movie “A Fistful of Dollars”:
“When a man with .45 pistol meets a man with a rifle, the man with a pistol’s a dead man. Let’s see if that’s true. Go ahead, load up and shoot” x)

Mmh Second gameplay funny for ME is Thief s/d but this gameplay is little hard o:

DeceiverX.8361:

I understand I’m in the minority here, but…

I love Dancing Dagger.

DB is shaky, and I’d rather see an upped evade and a blood nerf (condi 3spam criers will fight to the ends of the earth to allow this, though), but please do leave my Dancing Dagger, unless all that is meant to change is the projectile reliability. That cripple allows for an incredible amount of lockdown on high-movespeed targets such as war/engi/ele, it can pop Guard Aegis without going into combat, and the bounce damage is fairly high when trying to defend a keep wall without a ranged option at the time (I primarily use D/D + S/D).

I really do like the premise of DB operating like warrior’s Whirlwind Attack (fixed damage/linear gap closer with decent range), even if the evade duration isn’t improved, just to allow the skill to be used as a better evasion tool/relocation tool..

They touched Dancing Dagger.
Actually, they straight mutilated it from a fantastic utility ability into an objectively bad and rather pointless skill.

This statement is now entirely false with the DoT and Dash change. The skill is now completely worthless and serves absolutely no use whatsoever. Spamming 2 will always be better in every regard and situation while Dancing Dagger offers what is now extremely poor utility, damage, range and reliability as well as an overly-high initiative cost.

In short, I very broadly share the conclusions reached in the resolution to problems of Thief, for now:

- [MY opinion]For Problem of the high fragility (with low defense and Healt): 1 Perma skill passive [n°% Block and reflect fisical and conditional Dmg] OR [Auto-regenerates healing “n°” point for “n°” time];

- For Problem with Dots: Decent condition cleansing;

- Skill Death blossom: Resolve the problem of the long-lasting and reduce consumption of initiative;

- Skill Dancing dagger: Reduce consumption of initiative;

- [MY opinion]Skill Cloak and dagger: Increase stack of Vulnerability.

Am I the only one that finds no problem surviving in PVE on my D/D Thief? If it was about PVP or WvW I would understand it, but in PVE D/D is one of the best sets ever.

Fragility: I use Full Berserker armor, full damage build trait set-up. I use 2 ways to heal myself, Invigorating Precision trait in Critical Strikes and Withdraw healing skill. I take Withdraw instead of Signet of Malice because I might need burst heals in PVE AND it cures movement conditions, plus it has a very low cooldown, heals for a good amount and gives an extra dodge all in one skill. Using these two in combination I have the sustain I need in most PvE encounters AND I can escape easily if I’m chilled/crippled etc.

When fighting groups of mobs I go S/P and faceroll (usually also switch Withdraw to Signet of Malice for extra healing) Pistol offhand provides extra blinds, helps with mob groups.

Problems with dots: when I really need conditions cleansing (rare in PVE) I use D/D and cleanse with Cloak and Dagger and Shadow’s Embrace. It’s a no cooldown on-demand condition cleaning that is also very spammable that also provides stealth, vulnerability and a great deal of damage (for IP). Withdraw takes care of the other conditions

Death blossom: personally I never use this skill unless I fight a big group of mobs and need some extra healing

Dancing Dagger: it’s a fine skill for when you really need it (in PVP) 3 sec cripple on 3 targets (if they are close enough) with only 3 initiative?

Cloak and Dagger: why? The skill is already very powerful why does it need a boost?

Uff … Child You want a candy :?

@maddoctor.2738: “Fragility: I use Full Berserker armor, full damage build trait set-up. I use 2 ways to heal myself, Invigorating Precision trait in Critical Strikes and Withdraw healing skill. I take Withdraw instead of Signet of Malice because”

Good for y ^^"

@maddoctor.2738: “I might need burst heals in PVE AND it cures movement conditions, plus it has a very low cooldown, heals for a good amount and gives an extra dodge all in one skill. Using these two in combination I have the sustain I need in most PvE encounters AND I can escape easily if I’m chilled/crippled etc.”

I write in general for battle “Body to body” (WvsW/Pvp) and in Pve o:

@maddoctor.2738: “When fighting groups of mobs I go S/P and faceroll (usually also switch Withdraw to Signet of Malice for extra healing) Pistol offhand provides extra blinds, helps with mob groups.”

Title of this Post is “Thief d/d”
And I write to Axyl.9408 that Thief S/P is boring for ME.

@maddoctor.2738: "Problems with dots: when I really need conditions cleansing (rare in PVE) I use D/D and cleanse with Cloak and Dagger and Shadow’s Embrace. It’s a no cooldown on-demand condition cleaning that is also very spammable that also provides stealth, vulnerability and a great deal of damage (for IP). Withdraw takes care of the other conditions

I write in general for battle “Body to body” (WvsW/Pvp) and in Pve o:

@maddoctor.2738: “Death blossom: personally I never use this skill”

LoL

@maddoctor.2738: “Dancing Dagger: it’s a fine skill for when you really need it (in PVP) 3 sec cripple on 3 targets (if they are close enough) with only 3 initiative?”

“only 3 initiative?” ONLY o:

@maddoctor.2738: “Cloak and Dagger: why? The skill is already very powerful why does it need a boost?”

Are you serious? o:

And Bla Bla Bla
PLS first read all thread and after write with good opinion …
But If y need attention i continue for y ^^ but after stay beef little child ^^"

Sein.5160:

Good for y ^^"

I tell you how to play and not have problems with your “fragility”. Why are you complaining about Thief fragility when there are ways to counter it?

I write in general for battle “Body to body” (WvsW/Pvp) and in Pve o:

Then you should’ve made that clear.

The thief is a class “body to body” but has armor leatherwork and 0 skills for help in battle “body to body” and in Pve and hasn’t Perma-Stealth!

and

Becouse the problems classes bad balanced + bugs + Lag in W-Event and WvsW after a while is very boring!

So you are talking about WvW and world events here?

Title of this Post is “Thief d/d”
And I write to Axyl.9408 that Thief S/P is boring for ME.

a) I gave you a way to play fine as a D/D above
b) there is a thing called weapon swap

@maddoctor.2738: “Dancing Dagger: it’s a fine skill for when you really need it (in PVP) 3 sec cripple on 3 targets (if they are close enough) with only 3 initiative?”

“only 3 initiative?” ONLY o:

Yes “only”. The skill is fine as it is, pre-leap skill buff. After the leap skill buff it will probably need a buff as well just like most snare skills.

@maddoctor.2738: “Cloak and Dagger: why? The skill is already very powerful why does it need a boost?”
Are you serious? o:

I am. There is no reason to buff CnD of all things (and with extra vulnerability)

PLS first read all thread and after write with good opinion …

I read the thread just fine.

But If y need attention i continue for y ^^ but after stay beef little child ^^"

Someone didn’t learn manners nor how to make a good conversation. Grow up and then we can continue

@maddoctor.2738: “I gave you a way to play fine as a D/D above”

If you understand, I don’t open this post for help ask for gameplay thief d/d but for discuss with the players thief of problems and looking good ideas for solving this problems!

@maddoctor.2738: “Death blossom: personally I never use this skill”

And of certainly I don’t help ask to players that don’t used to 100% the thief ^^
But you are ironic… you write that you don’t use this skill but you claim you opinion x)

@maddoctor.2738: “When fighting groups of mobs I go S/P”

I open post for thief d/d in battle “body to body” (WvsW/PvP) and in Pve
You go off topic, man .-.

@maddoctor.2738: “Cloak and Dagger: why? The skill is already very powerful why does it need a boost?”

I think that:

OR 1) y don’t play in wvsw/pvp with thief d/d
OR 2) you don’t know math…

@maddoctor.2738: “Dancing Dagger: it’s a fine skill for when you really need it (in PVP) 3 sec cripple on 3 targets (if they are close enough) with only 3 initiative?”
@maddoctor.2738: […] conditions cleansing […]

PLS read The discussion of players for Dancing Dagger and condition cleansing:

other answers […]

@NinjaEd.3946: […]

@thunderfall.8095: Sir Vincent III: You are right. Thieves need a decent condition removal skill. HEAR THAT A-NET! US THIEVES NEED CONDITION REMOVAL!
@Sir Vincent III.1286: Not just condi removal but also increase in base HP, more inline with other medium armor wearer.

@thunderfall.8095: Well, we don’t need more health if we have condition removal.
@Sir Vincent III.1286: If that is true, then Ranger and Engi should also have 10k HP since they also have access to condition removal.
IMHO, it is more feasible to just rebalance the Thief’s HP to match the other two than rebalance the other two to match the Thief, won’t you agree?

@Sein.5160: […]
@DeceiverX.8361: “Dancing Dagger offers what is now extremely poor utility, damage, range and reliability as well as an overly-high initiative cost”
@Sein.5160: […]
@DeceiverX.8361: “The thief as a whole lacks good condition cleansing options due to its low base health compared to all other low health classes.”

other answers […]

1. And if you read all thread y look that i write 2 my opinion and 3 opinion of players thief

@Sein.5160:
In short, I very broadly share the conclusions reached in the resolution to problems of Thief, for now:

- [MY opinion]For Problem of the high fragility (with low defense and Healt): 1 Perma skill passive [n°% Block and reflect fisical and conditional Dmg] OR [Auto-regenerates healing “n°” point for “n°” time];

- For Problem with Dots: Decent condition cleansing;

- Skill Death blossom: Resolve the problem of the long-lasting and reduce consumption of initiative;

- Skill Dancing dagger: Reduce consumption of initiative;

- [MY opinion]Skill Cloak and dagger: Increase stack of Vulnerability.

— @maddoctor.2738: “Someone didn’t learn manners nor how to make a good conversation. Grow up and then we can continue”

I don’t answer y or this thread it converts into Flame ^^"
- TY for read and answer this post with y opinion ^^

Sein.5160:

- [MY opinion]For Problem of the high fragility (with low defense and Healt): 1 Perma skill passive [n°% Block and reflect fisical and conditional Dmg] OR [Auto-regenerates healing “n°” point for “n°” time];

This will not solve the “fragility” issue because poison reduces the effectiveness of health regen. The only real solution to this is to increase our base HP inline with other adventurer class (Ranger and Engi).

- For Problem with Dots: Decent condition cleansing;

ArenaNet is adding more condition removal in the next expansion and the one I like the most is condition cleanse on Trick Skill use.

- Skill Death blossom: Resolve the problem of the long-lasting and reduce consumption of initiative;

This has more problem than just the initiative cost. It also has a pre-cast and an after-cast delays that are cumbersome when used to evade attacks. The animation of Death Blossoms needs to be instant or have a reduced time delays.

At its current state, it is clunky and unreliable.

- Skill Dancing dagger: Reduce consumption of initiative;

…or make it bounce 5 times.

- [MY opinion]Skill Cloak and dagger: Increase stack of Vulnerability.

This might become problematic because CnD also deals a lot of damage and often followed up by Backstab. I rather see CnD to receive a reduced casting time by half.

Sein.5160:

@maddoctor.2738: “I gave you a way to play fine as a D/D above”
If you understand, I don’t open this post for help ask for gameplay thief d/d but for discuss with the players thief of problems and looking good ideas for solving this problems!

From your OP it’s impossible to understand which part of the game you are even discussing. First you go for PVE then you go WvW and then you also add PVP.

What I posted was all how to “solve” your problems in PVE, which as far as I know it was part of your “discussion”. Instead of posting about it you got all “I’m not talking only about PVE”. Make up your mind.

I open post for thief d/d in battle “body to body” (WvsW/PvP) and in Pve
You go off topic, man .-.

Again: Weapon swap

@maddoctor.2738: “Cloak and Dagger: why? The skill is already very powerful why does it need a boost?”

I think that:

OR 1) y don’t play in wvsw/pvp with thief d/d
OR 2) you don’t know math…

No I don’t play WvW with my Thief I play PVE and PVP.

- [MY opinion]For Problem of the high fragility (with low defense and Healt): 1 Perma skill passive [n°% Block and reflect fisical and conditional Dmg] OR [Auto-regenerates healing “n°” point for “n°” time];

Have you ever considered that are more weapons than D/D in the game? How is this suggestion going to work with others? Or you want this to work only when you equip dual daggers?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

- Skill Dancing dagger: Reduce consumption of initiative;

…or make it bounce 5 times.

Or make it cast faster. However, with the way they will nerf all movement skills this might need more drastic changes.

- [MY opinion]Skill Cloak and dagger: Increase stack of Vulnerability.

This might become problematic because CnD also deals a lot of damage and often followed up by Backstab. I rather see CnD to receive a reduced casting time by half.

The only bad thing about reducing the casting time of CnD is that it’s a very powerful skill and needs some counter play, opponents need some time to react to it

maddoctor.2738:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

- Skill Dancing dagger: Reduce consumption of initiative;

…or make it bounce 5 times.

Or make it cast faster. However, with the way they will nerf all movement skills this might need more drastic changes.

I’m fine with the current casting time, but I’ll agree with the projectile travel time being slow.

- [MY opinion]Skill Cloak and dagger: Increase stack of Vulnerability.

This might become problematic because CnD also deals a lot of damage and often followed up by Backstab. I rather see CnD to receive a reduced casting time by half.

The only bad thing about reducing the casting time of CnD is that it’s a very powerful skill and needs some counter play, opponents need some time to react to it

What more counter play you need in addition to Revealed?

Revealed is to keep CnD from being cast conscutively to extend the stealth duration — your target doesn’t even need to counter CnD, the game is already doing it for them.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

maddoctor.2738:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

- Skill Dancing dagger: Reduce consumption of initiative;

…or make it bounce 5 times.

Or make it cast faster. However, with the way they will nerf all movement skills this might need more drastic changes.

I’m fine with the current casting time, but I’ll agree with the projectile travel time being slow.

Oh right the projectile speed is more important than cast time indeed. Faster dagger will be the best.

- [MY opinion]Skill Cloak and dagger: Increase stack of Vulnerability.

This might become problematic because CnD also deals a lot of damage and often followed up by Backstab. I rather see CnD to receive a reduced casting time by half.

The only bad thing about reducing the casting time of CnD is that it’s a very powerful skill and needs some counter play, opponents need some time to react to it

What more counter play you need in addition to Revealed?

Revealed is to keep CnD from being cast conscutively to extend the stealth duration — your target doesn’t even need to counter CnD, the game is already doing it for them.

I was thinking more about allowing players to dodge/block/blind/invuln CnD so the Thief doesn’t re-enter stealth. More like how other powerful attacks have huge tells (like Earthshaker, Pin Down etc) CnD is not a weak skill.

It IS hard to land CnD on moving targets sometimes due to that delay. Maybe (and that’s a huge maybe) keep it as stealth granting skill, make it faster, stack more vulnerability, cost less initiative but reduce damage output? Or too much? (I guess P/D Thieves won’t mind)

edit: There is even a discussion to add a Telegraph to Steal: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/sugestion-Telegraphed-Steal/first

maddoctor.2738:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

maddoctor.2738:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

- Skill Dancing dagger: Reduce consumption of initiative;

…or make it bounce 5 times.

Or make it cast faster. However, with the way they will nerf all movement skills this might need more drastic changes.

I’m fine with the current casting time, but I’ll agree with the projectile travel time being slow.

Oh right the projectile speed is more important than cast time indeed. Faster dagger will be the best.

- [MY opinion]Skill Cloak and dagger: Increase stack of Vulnerability.

This might become problematic because CnD also deals a lot of damage and often followed up by Backstab. I rather see CnD to receive a reduced casting time by half.

The only bad thing about reducing the casting time of CnD is that it’s a very powerful skill and needs some counter play, opponents need some time to react to it

What more counter play you need in addition to Revealed?

Revealed is to keep CnD from being cast conscutively to extend the stealth duration — your target doesn’t even need to counter CnD, the game is already doing it for them.

I was thinking more about allowing players to dodge/block/blind/invuln CnD so the Thief doesn’t re-enter stealth. More like how other powerful attacks have huge tells (like Earthshaker, Pin Down etc) CnD is not a weak skill.

Then how do you counter a CnD from stealth?

It IS hard to land CnD on moving targets sometimes due to that delay. Maybe (and that’s a huge maybe) keep it as stealth granting skill, make it faster, stack more vulnerability, cost less initiative but reduce damage output? Or too much? (I guess P/D Thieves won’t mind)

P/D will be strong after the expac since vuln will also boost condi dmg but I doubt D/D and S/D will be happy if CnD is nerfed/rebalanced.

edit: There is even a discussion to add a Telegraph to Steal: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/sugestion-Telegraphed-Steal/first

I’m already debunking that idea.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

I was thinking more about allowing players to dodge/block/blind/invuln CnD so the Thief doesn’t re-enter stealth. More like how other powerful attacks have huge tells (like Earthshaker, Pin Down etc) CnD is not a weak skill.

Then how do you counter a CnD from stealth?

You can’t counter CnD from stealth but the cast time on CnD allows someone to counter it when it’s used outside of stealth, so the Thief does not regain stealth easily. Or at least that’s why I think CnD does have a cast time and a rather obvious and unique animation now so I doubt they will remove it, maybe lower it a bit so it’s more reliable vs moving targets

maddoctor.2738:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

I was thinking more about allowing players to dodge/block/blind/invuln CnD so the Thief doesn’t re-enter stealth. More like how other powerful attacks have huge tells (like Earthshaker, Pin Down etc) CnD is not a weak skill.

Then how do you counter a CnD from stealth?

You can’t counter CnD from stealth but the cast time on CnD allows someone to counter it when it’s used outside of stealth, so the Thief does not regain stealth easily. Or at least that’s why I think CnD does have a cast time and a rather obvious and unique animation now so I doubt they will remove it, maybe lower it a bit so it’s more reliable vs moving targets[/quote]

Exactly. 1/4s cast time is more appropriate cansidering that it is a melee attack. I also believe that Revealed is sufficient enough to keep it under control.

@maddoctor.2738: Have you ever considered that are more weapons than D/D in the game? How is this suggestion going to work with others? Or you want this to work only when you equip dual daggers?

You ask are off topic, man .-.

But i answered to this asks:
@Sein.5160:
@Axyl.9408: “If you’re having trouble with D/D, switch to S/P”
1) For ME is funny Thief d/d but class thief d/d have problems and I open post in “Profession Thief” for discuss with the players thief of problems and looking good ideas for solving this problems;
2) Ty for advice but No ty, Thief S/P is boring for ME.

@thunderfall.8095: “Then try P/P. You can’t complain Unload isn’t cool. Admit it: Unload is really gangstery and swigity swigity swags.”

@Sein.5160: Thief P/P remember me cit. of the movie “A Fistful of Dollars”:
“When a man with .45 pistol meets a man with a rifle, the man with a pistol’s a dead man. Let’s see if that’s true. Go ahead, load up and shoot” x)
Mmh Second gameplay funny for ME is Thief s/d but this gameplay is little hard o:

— Man y don’t read all thread and for this y write ironic opinion..

#Mhh..
1) Y don’t play in pve with thief d/d but y play with S/p:
2) The thief isn’t y main;
3) Y don’t play thief in WvsW;
4) And I think that y little play with thief d/d in PvP.

But y answers with manner presumptuous to the thread for Thief D/D … ^^"

- Ty y for advice @maddoctor.2738 but No ty, Thief S/P is boring for ME

@maddoctor.2738: “to show how mature you are”
and after y write:
(I remember y edit (x @maddoctor.2738: “Good you know your place.” )
- Peace and love @maddoctor.2738

@Sir Vincent III.1286: ArenaNet is adding more condition removal in the next expansion and the one I like the most is condition cleanse on Trick Skill use.

Good info because I was worried for notice for all classes condition:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/combat-changes-dotsanddashes/
For me is hell for all class dps x)
(However, if Anet will not exaggerate the gap between Dps/condition, it stabilizes in Pve.)

@maddoctor.2738: It IS hard to land CnD on moving targets sometimes due to that delay. Maybe (and that’s a huge maybe) keep it as stealth granting skill, make it faster, stack more vulnerability, cost less initiative but reduce damage output? Or too much?

- A LITTLE “revamp” with a Increase stack of Vulnerability of the skill Cloak and dagger don’t change this skill in OP… [(x% x “Def” -> x/100 x “Def”) dmg in “tot” sec] o:

Sein.5160:

@maddoctor.2738: Have you ever considered that are more weapons than D/D in the game? How is this suggestion going to work with others? Or you want this to work only when you equip dual daggers?

You ask are off topic, man .-.

I’m not off topic. Maybe you failed to understand what I posted, have you considered how your suggestion is going to affect the Thief class as a whole?

So one more time, how is:

[MY OPINION] for fix this problem is or 1 perma skill passive “+30% block and reflect” fisical and conditional Dmg or the increase of “Backstab” and all skills.

Going to affect the Thief as a whole? Should I take a picture so you understand it?

#Mhh..
1) Y don’t play in pve with thief d/d but y play with S/p:
2) The thief isn’t y main;
3) Y don’t play thief in WvsW;
4) And I think that y little play with thief d/d in PvP.

How you came to those conclusions is beyond me.

1) I play D/D in PVE which I stated rather clearly and you still haven’t responded to the first post I made about how to solve every single of your issues in PVE without changing anything. Nice try though

2) No because I don’t have a main I play lots of professions.

3) No I don’t but that’s irrelevant to the discussion, last I checked you yourself said, this isn’t only about PVE but ALSO about WvW and PVP, this means it included PVE right?

You asked for a discussion about “Thief issues” in general, I answered about the PVE part of it. You didn’t respond to it, and you still don’t, then you started insulting for no reason at all. If you have something to say on your own topic then say it in a proper manner, that’s how discussions work.

@maddoctor.2738: […]
I write that y opinions are off topic because I don’t ask for help in gameplay but I open This post in “Profession Thief” for discuss with the players thief of problems and looking good ideas for solving this problems, especially for problems of Thief d/d .

@Sein.5160:
In short, I very broadly share the conclusions reached in the resolution to problems of Thief, for now:

- [MY opinion]For Problem of the high fragility (with low defense and Healt): 1 Perma skill passive [n°% Block and reflect fisical and conditional Dmg] OR [Auto-regenerates healing “n°” point for “n°” time];

- For Problem with Dots: Decent condition cleansing;

1. For all thief

@Sein.5160:

- Skill Death blossom: Resolve the problem of the long-lasting and reduce consumption of initiative;

- Skill Dancing dagger: Reduce consumption of initiative;

- [MY opinion]Skill Cloak and dagger: Increase stack of Vulnerability.

1. For Thief D/D

@maddoctor.2738: “you started insulting”

WTF ? ok.. ok.. peace and love @maddoctor.2738

1. If y hv problems with me, PLS, pm me or this thread it converts into Flood >.<

Sein.5160:

@maddoctor.2738: […]
I write that y opinions are off topic because I don’t ask for help in gameplay but I open This post in “Profession Thief” for discuss with the players thief of problems and looking good ideas for solving this problems, especially for problems of Thief d/d .

And as I said multiple times and you still fail to answer I provided answers to those “problems” you claim about PVE. An opinion cannot be off topic, your answers are off topic. You still avoid answering but oh well

- [MY opinion]For Problem of the high fragility (with low defense and Healt): 1 Perma skill passive [n°% Block and reflect fisical and conditional Dmg] OR [Auto-regenerates healing “n°” point for “n°” time];

And I ask one more time, how is this going to work with other weapon sets that have excellent condition cleaning AND health regeneration. You are dodging the question again, I think it’s in plain English.

1. If y hv problems with me, PLS, pm me or this thread it converts into Flood >.<

I don’t have a problem with you, YOU have a problem with me and I don’t understand why. You are the one flooding your own thread. I gave you some specific questions in plain English how about answering?

+1 to everybody saying the problem is essentially that 3 and 4 are poorly designed whether or not you’re some weirdo who personally feels otherwise.

I’ll play some d/d because no PvP in this game really matters, but it feels limited and flawed and I think it would have fallen even further from grace if this game had the ultra-competitive meta meat grinder of a more tactile small scale pvp ladder.