(edited by bobomb.5209)
Thief dual pistol discussion
P/P and warrior rifle or nothing alike. One is useless and the other is viable and has interesting skills.
Keep maining your warrior, kitten just went down on the Thief today. The nerf to Oppertunist 15 point trait in critical strikes made it even harder for a P/P thief.
P/P lacks speed on autoattack, lacks a way to get out of melee reach in their weaponset. If those 2 things were implemented, I would love to play a hybrid gunslinger. For now and in the far future we will not have an awesome gunslinger :P
We awesome gunslingers will keep on pew-pewing in this post-patch apocalypse.
P/P and warrior rifle or nothing alike. One is useless and the other is viable and has interesting skills.
Keep maining your warrior, kitten just went down on the Thief today. The nerf to Oppertunist 15 point trait in critical strikes made it even harder for a P/P thief.
P/P lacks speed on autoattack, lacks a way to get out of melee reach in their weaponset. If those 2 things were implemented, I would love to play a hybrid gunslinger. For now and in the far future we will not have an awesome gunslinger :P
I appreciate the bump to this thread despite your unhelpful post. Nothing alike? They both have problems and are situational. Dual pistols unviable? I used them for a bit and traiting 33% bounce, with venoms, you can do a good bit of damage. Unfortunately what I just described would be more of a condition build, not power. Please try to make an insightful comment. The thief forums are filled with alot of hate from what I have seen. But I am confident that some thieves will actually read this post, and try to come up with good ideas. Maybe developers will see this? If they do, wouldn’t you like good suggestions to come up? Put aside your complaints and try to do something useful please.
Don´t know nothing about warrior´s rifle, but i can tell you about p/p, is not useless if traited, what’s more, could be very usefull and fun wen traited. But that is the problem, you most take some traits exclusive for pistols wen leaving some that could be better at overall, which make it a bad trade.
Also, p/p is the most expensive weapom set of the thieve in terms of iniciative and give too little in exchage fro that cost.
And finaly, the auto attack is two weak, which is really stupid wen you realize than this wepon set high iniciative cost make you be stuck with its auto attack very often.
My suggestions:
1- Make vital shoot (the auto attack) shoot two bullets instead of one.
2- Reduce Body Shoot iniciative cost by 1.
3- Unload could have a bonus to damage based in the numbers of bleeds the traget(s) has (like 0.5% mor damage per bleed), so it take some better sinergy with Vital Shoot/Sneak Attack.
4- Give to all pistols skills some boost damage between 2 and 3% and reduce the bonus of Pistol Mastery trait from 10% down to 5% to compensate for this.
Don´t thing this ideas could fix p/p but some can give us better and fun moment with this weapon set whithoud the need of trait the set. Hope this give some inspiration to someone in anet at least.
It’s silly that they didn’t make dual pistol having entirely different skill set.doesn’t make sense that you don’t aways fire both pistol maxpayne style.
Thief: 600 range with pistols, weak armor, low health pool
Warrior: 1200 range with rifles, good armor, large health pool
Yea i’d stick with war if I were you
I feel that, in order for P/P to be effective in an sPvP meta, a new grandmaster trait must be introduced which converts a daze into a knockdown on a 7 second ICD. P/P lacks the kiting power of the warrior’s rifle due to this. Body shot isn’t enough.
Thief: 600 range with pistols, weak armor, low health pool
Warrior: 1200 range with rifles, good armor, large health poolYea i’d stick with war if I were you
I suppose it may be my fault for any lack of adequate communication. This post is for discussing the weapons, not the class. If you wanted to discuss the class, then I would mention that while the warrior has the highest health pool, there is no damage mitigation besides Endure Pain. Thieves have blind, shadowsteps, dazes, and evades. Do these things matter? Of course not, because these points are not part of the thread. This thread is to discuss the weapons. As a whole, I would’ve assumed that you would want to put forth Ideas, not just poorly presented comparisons, that would benefit your thief. Thank you for replying though.
(edited by bobomb.5209)
I feel that, in order for P/P to be effective in an sPvP meta, a new grandmaster trait must be introduced which converts a daze into a knockdown on a 7 second ICD. P/P lacks the kiting power of the warrior’s rifle due to this. Body shot isn’t enough.
I agree completely. With the shorter range on the pistol you need more power to stop your foe from just rushing you. I think the pistols range should be increased in general. Maybe add a longer immobilize duration Body Shot? With the new patch you can only stack immobilize three times so this would not be terrible OP. And I think everyone can agree thief’s need a buff. Thank you for taking your time to put forth an idea. Much appreciated.
(edited by bobomb.5209)
Don´t know nothing about warrior´s rifle, but i can tell you about p/p, is not useless if traited, what’s more, could be very usefull and fun wen traited. But that is the problem, you most take some traits exclusive for pistols wen leaving some that could be better at overall, which make it a bad trade.
Also, p/p is the most expensive weapom set of the thieve in terms of iniciative and give too little in exchage fro that cost.
And finaly, the auto attack is two weak, which is really stupid wen you realize than this wepon set high iniciative cost make you be stuck with its auto attack very often.My suggestions:
1- Make vital shoot (the auto attack) shoot two bullets instead of one.
2- Reduce Body Shoot iniciative cost by 1.
3- Unload could have a bonus to damage based in the numbers of bleeds the traget(s) has (like 0.5% mor damage per bleed), so it take some better sinergy with Vital Shoot/Sneak Attack.
4- Give to all pistols skills some boost damage between 2 and 3% and reduce the bonus of Pistol Mastery trait from 10% down to 5% to compensate for this.Don´t thing this ideas could fix p/p but some can give us better and fun moment with this weapon set whithoud the need of trait the set. Hope this give some inspiration to someone in anet at least.
Great ideas. I think the problem with thief’s when it comes to pistol is what you described. You need to trait heavily into the pistol to maximize its effectiveness. Should there be no traits for the pistol? Surely not, but they shouldn’t be a requirement to use them well. I think a general damage buff is in order. Extra damage on bleeding is a good idea, much like a minor trait for 25 points in the Arms tree for warriors (though I don’t think thief’s should have such a trait for so large an investment, maybe 15 points?). All speculation but necessary should these ideas ever get out into the public. Thank you for taking your time to speak your mind. Much appreciated.
(edited by bobomb.5209)
I feel that, in order for P/P to be effective in an sPvP meta, a new grandmaster trait must be introduced which converts a daze into a knockdown on a 7 second ICD. P/P lacks the kiting power of the warrior’s rifle due to this. Body shot isn’t enough.
I agree completely. With the shorter range on the pistol you need more power to stop your foe from just rushing you. I think the pistols range should be increased in general. Maybe add a longer immobilize duration Body Shot? With the new patch you can only stack immobilize three times so this would not be terrible OP. And I think everyone can agree thief’s need a buff. Thank you for taking your time to put forth an idea. Much appreciated.
With many melee classes running melandru runes and lemongrass soup, increasing the duration of body shot is moot. P/P needs a hard CC in order to be effective.
Don´t know nothing about warrior´s rifle, but i can tell you about p/p, is not useless if traited, what’s more, could be very usefull and fun wen traited. But that is the problem, you most take some traits exclusive for pistols wen leaving some that could be better at overall, which make it a bad trade.
Also, p/p is the most expensive weapom set of the thieve in terms of iniciative and give too little in exchage fro that cost.
And finaly, the auto attack is two weak, which is really stupid wen you realize than this wepon set high iniciative cost make you be stuck with its auto attack very often.My suggestions:
1- Make vital shoot (the auto attack) shoot two bullets instead of one.
2- Reduce Body Shoot iniciative cost by 1.
3- Unload could have a bonus to damage based in the numbers of bleeds the traget(s) has (like 0.5% mor damage per bleed), so it take some better sinergy with Vital Shoot/Sneak Attack.
4- Give to all pistols skills some boost damage between 2 and 3% and reduce the bonus of Pistol Mastery trait from 10% down to 5% to compensate for this.Don´t thing this ideas could fix p/p but some can give us better and fun moment with this weapon set whithoud the need of trait the set. Hope this give some inspiration to someone in anet at least.
Great ideas. I think the problem with thief’s when it comes to pistol is what you described. You need to trait heavily into the pistol to maximize its effectiveness. Should there be no traits for the pistol? Surely not, but they shouldn’t be a requirement to use them well. I think a general damage buff is in order. Extra damage on bleeding is a good idea, much like a minor trait for 25 points in the Arms tree for warriors (though I don’t think thief’s should have such a trait for so large an investment, maybe 15 points?). All speculation but necessary should these ideas ever get out into the public. Thank you for taking your time too speak you mind. Much appreciated.
Yeah they are really great ideas. I hope someone from anet consider these changes.
I feel that, in order for P/P to be effective in an sPvP meta, a new grandmaster trait must be introduced which converts a daze into a knockdown on a 7 second ICD. P/P lacks the kiting power of the warrior’s rifle due to this. Body shot isn’t enough.
I agree completely. With the shorter range on the pistol you need more power to stop your foe from just rushing you. I think the pistols range should be increased in general. Maybe add a longer immobilize duration Body Shot? With the new patch you can only stack immobilize three times so this would not be terrible OP. And I think everyone can agree thief’s need a buff. Thank you for taking your time to put forth an idea. Much appreciated.
With many melee classes running melandru runes and lemongrass soup, increasing the duration of body shot is moot. P/P needs a hard CC in order to be effective.
Very true, the hard counter you suggest could be as simple as increasing the stun duration on “Head shot”. But WvW has so many variables it is difficult to establish what skills would be effective in what situation. I think what developers had in mind for head shot was a timed stun to stop heals or bursts. but as a stand alone skill it is very underwhelming, and is not effective at all for setting up any kind of burst like warriors CC, or even Mesmer CC. And considering thief’s are all about doing bursts of damage, don’t they need a way to set this up? Basalisk Venom is of course the best choice. But aside from that there are not many reliable ways to root your target for any duration of time to burst.
(edited by bobomb.5209)