Thief elite spec idea: Sharpshooter

Thief elite spec idea: Sharpshooter

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Posted by: Lonami.2987

Lonami.2987

The sharpshooter is a new elite specialization idea for the thief. Sharpshooters were once commoners, who fled away from the shadow of lich emperor Palawa Joko, far into the desert. Lost in a new land, with barely any food, they learned to be patient, waiting for days to hunt the scarce game available in their new home. When the Order of Whispers investigated the rumors of this lost tribe, they were surprised to find how generations of seclusion had sharpened their skills. Now, geared with new equipment, they are ready to take their old home back.

Aside from classic thief weapons, sharpshooters can use a rifle, shooting at their enemies from a safe distance, or engaging them in fierce close combat. No matter the situation, they stand calm and look for weak spots before striking. All rifle skills are charge skills. The more you hold the trigger before firing, the deadlier the impact will be, increasing the initiative cost as well. Additionally, staying idle lets you charge faster, and charge skills don’t remove stealth until you finish charging.

This combat style puts sharpshooters under constant pressure, which can affect their performance as the fight goes on. They endure thanks to a series of gadgets, which give them a respite if things get dangerous. These include smoke grenades, initiative reloads, charge speed boosts, decoys, and a temporary buff revealing any hidden enemies, but only for the sharpshooter. The elite gadget is a cloak device, that gives them a short special stealth buff that doesn’t reveal the user when attacking, in exchange of a reduced mobility.

What makes sharpshooters truly deadly is their special mechanic, the lockdown. This target-based mechanic skill changes depending on the current off-hand or two-handed weapon. When you first activate it, your target gets a harmless debuff, which keeps him temporarily revealed for you. The lockdown skill has a long activation time, which varies between 4 and 8 seconds, and requires a high amount of initiative. The enemy can stop the channel, block the attack, or run away. If he does neither of those, the lockdown attack will deal a high amount of damage to him. Lockdown attacks can’t get reflected by enemy skills. Instead, they get blocked and destroy the reflect spell.

Sharpshooter

  • New weapon: Rifle (2H)
  • New utilities: Gadgets
  • New mechanics: Lockdown

Nowadays, sharpshooters are one of the strongest pillars of the rebellion. Cold-blooded in combat, they mercilessly take down enemy targets, retreating to the shadows before anyone notices what’s going on. They cover their allies, scout ahead, and spy on enemy movements. The lackeys of the lich emperor speak of these new rebels with fear, as if some unseen ghost of the past has come back to haunt them.

In some way, looks like that’s exactly the case.

Elonian elite specialization ideas: El: Dervish
M: Bladedancer – N: Scourge – En: Occultist – Ra: Swampstalker
T: Sharpshooter – G: Sunspear – Re: Hierophant – W: Corsair

Thief elite spec idea: Sharpshooter

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Posted by: Ohoni.6057

Ohoni.6057

It seems like it would be very annoying to deal with in PvP. I doubt the other classes would put up with it. What’s the counter to them? How do you see a fight going badly for this class?

“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”

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Posted by: CreedOfGod.9764

CreedOfGod.9764

It seems like it would be very annoying to deal with in PvP. I doubt the other classes would put up with it. What’s the counter to them? How do you see a fight going badly for this class?

Reflects?

A thief would need to be (and should have to be) specced out glass cannon in order to dish out that kind of worry-some damage. With 12k~14k hp, one or two reflected shots could send that thief up s**t creek with their mouth wide open. (thx abraham)

Even with the lockdown skills Lonami suggests that destroy reflects, using excessive resources to stack stealth, position, and charge up abilities would be impactful enough to punish a bad shot.

They also could always add some sort of indicator right before the shot goes off to add counterplay, or even just slow down the bullet just enough to see it coming (even while stealthed). Evades, reflects and blocks would still have to be timed accordingly, however.

~Ghost Ren~
Stay Low. Move Fast. Kill First. Die Last.

(edited by CreedOfGod.9764)

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

short special stealth buff that doesn’t reveal the user when attacking

Nope. Not unless every skill coefficient on the profession is reduced to < 1 and conditions cannot be applied. This has existed in the past with CnD spam builds and was the most overpowered and brainless style of play that’s existed in GW2, ever.

Un-reflectable massive nuke and reveal is just begging for problems, and this pretty much only seems fair in thief v thief.

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Posted by: Ohoni.6057

Ohoni.6057

Reflects?

Reflects are never an adequate counter. Most classes have none, those that do have them can only use them very rarely. They can be nice to have, but a powerful ability like this needs counterplay that ANY class can use, with almost any build. You should never need to have a specific anti-class counter on your team.

“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”

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Posted by: Lonami.2987

Lonami.2987

Reflects are never an adequate counter. Most classes have none, those that do have them can only use them very rarely. They can be nice to have, but a powerful ability like this needs counterplay that ANY class can use, with almost any build. You should never need to have a specific anti-class counter on your team.

Reflects and blocks are an option, but the real counter is crowd control. Note that rifle skills are charge skills. The more you charge, the better the skill is. If you don’t charge, you’ll be losing a lot of damage.

The downside about charging is that it can be cancelled by crowd control, just like channeling, so you only need a necromancer spamming fear to make sharpshooters useless, since you also spend initiative while charging.

Imagine seeing an enemy, and starting to charge a powerful rifle skill. You’re greedy and aiming for 100% charge (let’s say there’s 4 charge tiers to make damage calculation easier). The enemy sees you, and starts running to you. What do you do, shoot at 75%, or gamble and wait for 100%? If the enemy gets you, you’ll waste a lot of initiative and leave the skill in cooldown as well, doing no damage. Weapon skills can be reflected too, so be careful.

In the case of the mechanic skill, the lockdown, there’s no charging, and it’s a channel instead, meaning you need 100% to cast the skill. It’s much more powerful than the weapon skills, but the enemy gets a debuff telling him he’s being targeted, so it’s harder to take him by surprise. Lockdown skills can’t be reflected, instead they destroy the block or the reflect and do no damage, so they can be useful to break shielded enemies if you time it well.

It’s a high risk high reward elite specialization.

Nope. Not unless every skill coefficient on the profession is reduced to < 1 and conditions cannot be applied. This has existed in the past with CnD spam builds and was the most overpowered and brainless style of play that’s existed in GW2, ever.

Un-reflectable massive nuke and reveal is just begging for problems, and this pretty much only seems fair in thief v thief.

The role of the debuff enemys get is to allow them to notice what’s going on and react. Ideally, lockdown skills would only work on distracted or disabled enemies. If you’re paying attention, you should be able to protect yourself, or get behind cover.

By the way, the lockdown skills could be something like this:

  • Off-hand dagger: 4 seconds, knockback plus bleed.
  • Off-hand pistol: 4 seconds, daze plus blind.
  • Shortbow: 6 seconds, knockdown plus cripple and poison.
  • Rifle: 8 seconds, stun plus a lot of damage, pretty much downs the target.

If you want to go further, you could make lockdown channels show like a red laser between the target and the sharpshooter, making it even more visible.

Elonian elite specialization ideas: El: Dervish
M: Bladedancer – N: Scourge – En: Occultist – Ra: Swampstalker
T: Sharpshooter – G: Sunspear – Re: Hierophant – W: Corsair

(edited by Lonami.2987)

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Posted by: Ohoni.6057

Ohoni.6057

Reflects and blocks are an option, but the real counter is crowd control. Note that rifle skills are charge skills. The more you charge, the better the skill is. If you don’t charge, you’ll be losing a lot of damage.

The downside about charging is that it can be cancelled by crowd control, just like channeling, so you only need a necromancer spamming fear to make sharpshooters useless, since you also spend initiative while charging.

but you’ve already said that these skills can be used while stealthed, which would negate any possibility of using a CC on the Thief in most cases.

It’s a high risk high reward elite specialization.

Seems extremely low risk, if you play it well.

“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”

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Posted by: Lonami.2987

Lonami.2987

but you’ve already said that these skills can be used while stealthed, which would negate any possibility of using a CC on the Thief in most cases.

You can charge while stealthed, but once you finish charging and deal damage, the stealth is removed. Stealth doesn’t last that much, and normal attacks aren’t insta-killers, even when charged.

The lockdown skill is another matter, but targets are given a warning so they can react properly. Which doesn’t mean it can’t be used to fake high risk and scare the enemy too.

Seems extremely low risk, if you play it well.

If you’re greedy, charge a lot, and the enemy denies you, you’ll be in the middle of a fight with zero initiative. Charged attacks are only good in 1v1 against holders, really. The moment the enemy starts moving towards you, you will lose the superiority, so you need an idle enemy or a tank holding the enemy while you shoot them down.

The key to the sharpshooter is getting into a fight by surprise, from the back or a dead angle, and snipe down the enemy before they detect him. It’s all about paying attention. If they engage you in direct combat you will be useless.

Elonian elite specialization ideas: El: Dervish
M: Bladedancer – N: Scourge – En: Occultist – Ra: Swampstalker
T: Sharpshooter – G: Sunspear – Re: Hierophant – W: Corsair

Thief elite spec idea: Sharpshooter

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Posted by: Ohoni.6057

Ohoni.6057

You can charge while stealthed, but once you finish charging and deal damage, the stealth is removed. Stealth doesn’t last that much, and normal attacks aren’t insta-killers, even when charged.

but again, once the damage is done, then how would you interrupt them using CC? You said that CC could be a counter to these attacks, but you cannot counter AFTER the attack is made.

If you’re greedy, charge a lot, and the enemy denies you, you’ll be in the middle of a fight with zero initiative. Charged attacks are only good in 1v1 against holders, really. The moment the enemy starts moving towards you, you will lose the superiority, so you need an idle enemy or a tank holding the enemy while you shoot them down.

Or in the most common Thief scenario, +1ing other fights, where the enemy is focused on one of your teammates, allowing you to shoot as often as you like.

“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”

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Posted by: Lonami.2987

Lonami.2987

but again, once the damage is done, then how would you interrupt them using CC? You said that CC could be a counter to these attacks, but you cannot counter AFTER the attack is made.

You’re given a warning, even if the sharpshooter is stealthed. You can then search cover, use revealing skills, use blocking/reflecting skills, spam cc trying to hit him, or whatever.

Or in the most common Thief scenario, +1ing other fights, where the enemy is focused on one of your teammates, allowing you to shoot as often as you like.

You can always dodge/block/reflect those attacks, even if you’re engaged with someone else.

Elonian elite specialization ideas: El: Dervish
M: Bladedancer – N: Scourge – En: Occultist – Ra: Swampstalker
T: Sharpshooter – G: Sunspear – Re: Hierophant – W: Corsair

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Posted by: Orpheal.8263

Orpheal.8263

sigh another ridiculous try of bringing up into this game stupid “Snipers”

Give it up, this game will and should never get sniper, its way too overpowered and unbalanceable.
Such a kind of E-Spec would totally ruin the whole game for everyone.

if you want to play sniper so much, go play other games like Call of Duty, Counterstrike and all that similar shooter garbage that makes people just braindead.

Such gameplay simply has no place in a game like GW2. its super boring.

people forget, that if somethign like this would ever exist, that they don’t play it alone, but douzens of other players are out there too playing it and when played as a group, this spec would be totally ridiculous.

Nobody would be able to run anywhere in this game anymore, without havign to fee, that you get suddenly lockeddown one hit shotted by a group of snipers from like 1500+ range, without you have at all a chance to react and before you know ,what happened, thast group will reposition itself under perma stealth somewhere else to one hit shot their victims from their safe zones.

No, just no, before something game destroying like that should ever find its way into the game, will pigs learn to fly first !!

Personally I like the idea behind sub classes ~ quoted from Chris Whiteside

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

Agreed. The entire concept of a stealth sniper is strictly terrible design. You want range? You need it in another form with much more visibility. I don’t like GF berserker for this reason, as a skin can hide all visible tells on its burst.

But I wouldn’t be surprised if ANet did it because their track record right now is so bad anything is possible lol.

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

I recently played this game called El*er Sc*ol*s On*in* for about 200 hours.
In El*er Sc*ol*s On*in* , there is a stealth class called Nightblade.
Once you get some mana regeneration gears , Nightblade can do perma stealth.
The mana can regenerate faster than the mana cost of stealth. And there is no cooldown.
This means Nightblade can go into stealth “instantly” + “permanently” + “repeatedly”
In El*er Sc*ol*s On*in* , any class can equip any weapon.
Let me explain what happens when a stealth class equips a strong ranged weapon.
With this stealth + longbow Nightblade,
I can go into stealth and sneak behind you and shoot one or two arrows at you from long distance.
I go back into stealth before you turn around.
I sneak behind you again and shoot one or two arrows at you from long distance.
I go back into stealth before you turn around.
I repeat this until you die.
Also, I do 300% damage for a few seconds when I leave stealth so my arrows can hurt you even if you are full tank.
Also, all my attacks do critical damage for a few seconds when I leave stealth.
Also, my arrows apply “Damage Over Time” so your health is going down while I stay in stealth.
Also, I regenerate my health in stealth and I have 200% movement speed boost in stealth.
With this stealth + longbow Nightblade, I have killed five enemy players by myself.
When I duel another Nightblade player, both of us stay in stealth forever and we cannot kill eachother.
I can guarantee you that it will be fun to play stealth + long range combat class.
I can guarantee you that it won’t be fun to play against stealth + long range combat class.

Which is precisely why it’s important to design professions both ways.

Otherwise you end up with things like Berserker and DH and Daredevil that are just frustrating to play against and make the game in general for everyone less fun.

If you want range, you’re going to have to do without stealth; if you want stealth, you’re going to have to do without range.

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Posted by: choovanski.5462

choovanski.5462

sniper thief is not possible to balance.

gunflame had to be nerfed so much its ‘ehhh’ to compensate for people not dodging the tell. now imagine gunflame on a thief, w both stealth & teleports. it’s just not possible to have it balanced.

. Engi & Warr . Beta > 2017 Death of PvP
currently a Boyfriend main :P
Waiting To ReRoll Mystic & Forget About Tyria