Guild Wars 2

Nowadays with the new runes and traits for condispam, and thanks to the massive damage nerf…

There are only two usable types of thieves that serve a definite purpose anymore.

1. Full zerk all out dps BS/etc. burst builds.
2. Full condi all out spambuilds. These are inferior to dps builds because there are plenty of professions out there that either EAT condis or simply won’t take enough damage from the rather limited thief condi abilities to die.

The condi thieves are best at killing those weak to condi, and the dps builds are best for killing those weak to dps. However, in both cases they CANNOT reliably function in 1v1. They MUST be ganking.

A “balanced” thief does not have the tools to KILL (through lack of total damage) anybody who plays well in 1v1. This is simple fact. Our damage gets nerfed over and over, and without a full dps build we cannot kill anyone even slightly tanky or anyone who actually knows how to play. Thief will lose 9/10 of the time.

Thief requires a GREAT internet connection or very low latency to perform even fairly well. It has no room for error.

A balanced thief, as I said, basically has NO place in this game at all. At least an extreme dps thief has the ability to gank fast.

In PvP, a dps thief can gank and then run to another point quickly. A balanced thief will fight, fight, fight, and frequently stalemate ANY 1. warrior, 2. necro, 3. engi, 4. guardian, 5. ele, 6. ranger who chooses to bunker down. A balanced thief can NEVER take a point from a bunker, ever. A balanced thief frequently cannot kill ANY kind of decent engineer or warrior or necro.

Only a dps thief (and sometimes condi thief) actually has the CAPABILITY of killing any of these. It can die to them too, but at least it CAN kill them. This is a key difference between balanced thieves and pure dps thieves. A dps thief CAN kill just about anything, whereas a balanced thief CANNOT kill hardly anything played well.

I agree on this, i try various build in pvp:

With a full dps burst build: I do “okay burst”, but opposing classes always have some counter button, making them survive, and me dead in 1 knockdown, fear, w/e… I still hardly kill anything with these builds because of easy counter moves and becauseof failing stealth. This only works for when i open on targets half dead, and i still end up “winning” with 30-50% hp left 0.o’

In a condi (slightly bunker) p/d build: i can sometimes kill foes through bleeds, confusion and torment, but if my target is resillient to condi’s im screwed…

What i just dont uinderstand is why thief stealth is so penalized. Mesmer als get the revealed debuf, howeven stealth feels so much more relieable on my mesmer…

I feel it. I feel we definitely have options for builds, but as it stands now, to deal sufficient damage to kill someone 1v1 (I know this game isn’t supposed I be 1v1, but thieves end up roaming solo a lot), we need to go pure glass 2/6/0/0/6, or something similar.

It’s like ANet wants Thief to either be so brittle we die to a fart, or just be completely ineffective in the one role that ANet sees fit for us, and that’s always been damage. We’re not too good at support, though I’ve heard tales of a “ninja nurse” build which sounds kind of fun, but our condi build is rubbish compared to other classes, and we can’t bunker well, so that leaves us with a balanced but mostly ineffective build, or a glass dead on sight build.

I’ve also never had so many people chase me across a map before like I do on my thief. I wish I enjoyed other classes half as much as I do Thief. My close second is Necro, but condi Necro can feel pretty brain dead at times and doesn’t require the amount of focus and skill a thief does. Blah. I just want a tiny bit more damage without having to be completely mauled after being stunned or immob’d once, even when I use stun breaks as often as possible with shadowstep and infiltrator’s sig, I still get beat down too fast to react, whereas other professions like Warrior have so many passive defenses and heals in a game that’s supposed to be about active defense, not passive.

This build is the one I’m currently using. I tend to swap between Rage and Traveler runes (depends on the map wether I need the speed bonus or not).

I’m not having a hard time surviving, but I find condition builds to be the most annoying yes. In group situations I always open with Choking Gas and just auto attacking with short bow until I find a fitting target (squishy or below 50% hp). I then swap to d/p and bp + hs + pre-cast backstab → steal (mug). With this I get the backstab with revealed trainings 200 extra power. If my target isn’t dead yet I can just heartseeker to finish him off. In other words; targets sitting below 50% hp can and will die within the next few seconds ;p

It’s a difficult class to play with, certainly. Since we lack AI allies that usually imbalance a 1v1 duel (necromancer, PU mesmer, ranger spirits/pets), so we can only rely on our own damage (burst DPS or P/D condi pressure), but I don’t think that’s the only way to play.

D/P with 6 in SA isn’t a glass cannon burst setup and has the sustainability for prolonged play due to stealth. S/D isn’t a glass cannon burst setup and has the sustainability to last quite a bit.

And besides, 1v1 isn’t the only aspect of this game, and some classes are bound to be better at one thing than another. I don’t think it’s fair to call it lack of balance just due to one facet of the game (1v1 duelling doesn’t even seem to be intended, since sPvP still has team members, WvW has anybody that could ruin your “duel”, and so on.)

2/6/0/0/6 d/p is just kinda not where i want it right now. This patch made condis way too easy to apply and do massive damage. The crit damage nerf is more noticeable than i would have thought. I never feel like I’m doing enough damage and I’m full glass. I would be happy to go glassier but the only option for that would be 6/6/0/0/2 and that Isn’t going to happen. Imo if we just let steal have a stun by default without slide of hand the class would have many more open doors. I’m not budging on 6 trickery. Now that I think about it every class has that one trait line that just feels like it should j be a part of the profession’s combat anyway. In thief for me its trickery because it focuses on steal and initiative. You know…. the main things that make a thief a thief…. but this is all theorycrafting at this point. Pre-patch I was just feeling like it was more fun and now its just meh…. I guess ill try a p/d condi build maybe? I hear the confusion grandmaster is cool.

Sleight of hand was never a necessity on D/P… it’s more of a necessity on P/D and Sword builds that is otherwise poor at chasing. D/P already have a daze move as well as #2/#3 that is excellent at chasing. Though I don’t really know what mode you’re speaking of. In PvP then yeah, sleight of hand is nice on any character. In WvW roaming settings I usually go 6 in SA.

As a thief you really have to be careful and choice your battles wisely taking out a guardian with a condition build is just no go they just melt of the conditions. As for the DPs burst type well you have got to pick them off one at a time which is really hard and a lag or a knockback, fear, stun and it is all over. Most of the time I get my kills from running basilisk venom getting the stun and finishing them off as quick as possible (1V1). . If not well so out of luck and I die or have to run away and wait for hp regen from stealth.As for stealth well all it takes is a few aoe conditions and boom thief is done or if thief low hp just a few random swings and a little bit of luck and thief is done just look for those hit markers and such. I personally ran a D\P build but with the nerf to heartseeker which I did agree with and some of the initiative reduction it doesn’t work out to well. So I really think that some nice buffs or increase of something is in need of the thief class. Maybe I’m just QQ but when another awesome thief build is found everyone will complain and QQ about it.

Alright, y’all. Sorry to say, but I’m done with thief for now. I can’t stand being so afraid of pretty much every class that isn’t another thief. I can’t take warriors down, mesmers, engi’s, guardians, etc. I know a lot will just look at this as a QQ post, and that’s ok. There are just too many factors against my rationale for playing it as I no longer enjoy a thief. I gave it my all, and the game is working against me. So be it. I hope your experiences are better than mine. Have fun! ^^;

after recently shelving my thief for probably 2-3 weeks(i get bored of other classes quick) i semi agree with this post. i do find the crit change a little to extreme and think that some other stats need to be readjusted to work with this. but alas its really just drawn fights out to be long IMHO. WvW SE can keep condis at bay for D/P thief’s and lyssa runes still work in PvP. even with taking them out for a more damage base rune set HiS can remove the major ones that hurt the most….It’ll be interesting to see what the next major “Way of living” or w/e they called patch comes out

i kill plenty of people in condi spec, i use apothecary with dire ascendeds for trinks

Scribbles.3974:

i kill plenty of people in condi spec, i use apothecary with dire ascendeds for trinks

Problem is are you talking about Wv3? because in that case there is little way to know if its a balanced fight. A bad build can beat a good one if the levels and gear are different.

OT: I do get what you mean, been playing my thief since about a month after launch and of late its just a pain.

Either you do full on damage burst, but you die so easily and the damage is not that good anyway. Or some hybrid in which you excel at nothing and are outclassed by everyone. Condi kinda of works a little, but again, its so fickle and all the conditions feel weak compared to others.

I find using the SB to sort of bring them down a little is a good option, just dance out of range and see what their health does. Most guards are a no-no 1v1, as they can take damage and conditions, whilst a thief cannot.

Its amazing really, the backstab mug builds of old have really ruined this class. Aggressive nerfing and trying to focus thieves into a small area have made them somewhat predictable.

Eles have the same thing, they were ungodly when they had the D/D healing builds, that got ruined, and so did the class as a whole for a good 6 months.

Warriors are still good though…..

Hybrid builds are not on par with focused builds? Dear sir, thou doth jest!

Actually I’m confused by the context we’re discussing here. Are we talking about Structured PvP or World vs World?

If structured, then yes, with the simplification of amulets, hybrids got nerfed – though it could be argued that the meager stats gained from the jewel was laughable.

If WvW, then I assume roaming, in which case if one is a hybrid build, then they’re a Jack of All Trades, Master of None.

If by “balanced” one means “Effective Power/Effective Health,” that’s a completely different beast. Numbers have been adjusted after the Feature Patch. For Thieves, Valkyrie has replaced the Soldiers/Berserker armor and the Valkyrie/Berserker trinkets have been replaced with Cavalier/Berserker. With this particular change, Executioner is replaced with Hidden Strikes due to the lower crit chance. This build is still being testing.

deepwinter.9015:

If by “balanced” one means “Effective Power/Effective Health,” that’s a completely different beast.

Are you talking about 0/6/5/3/0 might stacking? It’s an alright build, but again, I feel the damage isn’t there, and the survivability is alright with P/D. I have a hard time keeping people in my BP AoE, though, so I end up using it a lot of the time for HS stealthing. I’d love some advice on how to maximize the benefits of BP and how to keep people in it for longer.

yeah i roam alot in wvw, i get some hard matchups, some easy ones, and then there are some where im like wtf….this is bossmode DX most of the people i fight though have those guard buffs, and what looks like exotics, if not ascendeds, the main problem is probably guardians, burning eats me alive, still got to get a way around that one :/

Anomaly.7612:

deepwinter.9015:

If by “balanced” one means “Effective Power/Effective Health,” that’s a completely different beast.

Are you talking about 0/6/5/3/0 might stacking? It’s an alright build, but again, I feel the damage isn’t there, and the survivability is alright with P/D. I have a hard time keeping people in my BP AoE, though, so I end up using it a lot of the time for HS stealthing. I’d love some advice on how to maximize the benefits of BP and how to keep people in it for longer.

One should not expect players to stay in their Blackpowder field. A D/P thief uses it for stealthing and situationally for stomps or going toe-to-toe with a less than average melee opponent. This isn’t PvE.

I personally don’t use D/P because I don’t like the playstyle; furthermore, I don’t use the popular new Might Stacking build because I haven’t seen enough math on it. Builds are still in a lot of flux right now. Its a trial and error period as folks figure out what works and what doesn’t. Personally, I’m sticking with my D/D 0/6/6/2/0 build using a mix of Valk/Cav/Zerk gear and Traveler’s runes.