Guild Wars 2

Travlane.5948:

@SUNFLOWERS zergs score in wvw…thieves are bad in those too. unless u like shooting trick shots all day. but thats no fun. pickin off strays is fun but not helping much. venom share is helpful but not really doing much action (again with sb)

I like shooting trick shots all day, thank you very much. Spamming cluster bomb and poison fields is alright too.

While thieves aren’t the best when massive 50v50 battles happen, I wouldn’t call them useless, not by any stretch of the imagination. Smokescreen is effectively the same as Guardian WoR, with a shorter cooldown (but it doesn’t reflect. Still makes your team immune to projectiles though). Dagger Storm is nice for massive area damage.

I’m not arguing that thieves are overpowered, but simply stating that the claim of “thieves are not low risk in WvW” is ridiculous. No other class can escape as easily as a well played thief (maybe D/D ele). Other than when I do stupid things like walk out of shadow refuge or try to fight 1v5, nobody can kill me.

Does that mean I can beat everyone that crosses paths with me? Certainly not. But actually killing me is stupidly hard.

Unfortunately WvW wasn’t meant to be balanced around by anets words, and even there a thieves strength lies heavily in their targets court, if that entire zerg cannot kill the thief or lock it in place with all the different ways to CC someone between their stealth (not to mention DURING the stealth at times for those who have managed to keep track of things) then its not just the 3-4 seconds of stealth thats making them “overpowered”, this is also the reason why many people can escape zergs with stealth or without.

Then of course you have the “roamers” who go around solo or in partial teams who then get attacked and die but then again the zone is not designed for those people so while a thief is potentially powerful against them (again depends entirely on the target really, if they know the thief mechanics then its not the thief mechanics that are strong its the player playing it) it comes down to doing something that’s really not intended by either side.

Thief is very very player skill dependant on both sides, take out those factors and thief mechanics are actually very weak, low damage coefficients, low staying power, lowest defense in the entire game.

Start adding them back in and it really comes down to the players, in a 1v1 stealth technically becomes the weakest it will ever be in a fight but the thief itself will be the strongest they ever get, with no one else distracting you from the thieves actions it becomes really quite easy to keep tabs on where the thief is and where they are going which lets you land hits on them while they can’t hit you, however should the thief land its damage with no support that high burst can be the winning factor.

In small group fights stealth becomes the strongest it will ever be but the thief overall becomes much weaker, with people distracting you its hard to keep track of the thief but at the same time you have lots more CC, AoE and ability spam that can take them out accidentally while the thieves attack power isn’t sufficient in those situations, they can potentially down 1 of your glass cannons but outside of that they are below average at dishing out damage to the group and generally a liability as while they may have taken 1 target out they themselves can be taken out just as fast if not faster.

In massive zergs both stealth and thief power plummets, while theres lots to distract you from keeping track of the thief the sheer AoE and skill spam plus the massive burst potential once they pop up can (and should in good groups) mean the thieves death, while the thief again can take possibly 1 person out in a burst build if they are also glass cannons.

Of course there are non burst thief builds that have much better staying powers but those builds no longer have the stealth power of the burst build AND are still technically much weaker than others doing the same.

i didnt say they were useless sunflowers i merely state/intended to show that shooting trick shots for MOST people is boring….we wanna use our teleports our blinds our big bursts our cool moves with evade like death blossom or in a zerg u dont really escape. more pull back. if u have to escape with your tails between your legs yes. but then again zerg v zerg isnt about escaping. you have to kill as many as you can depending on th ings like location….waypoint advantage…..how long would it take to run back if you died…..can you be revived…..only sometimes is it better to run “incase” you might die. those cases are USUALLY bc you are in a small group or solo. not in zvz. and i dare say d/d ele can do it better. and people that talk about 1 v5s and 2 v 1s a 1vXs really annoy me (no offense) bc it doesnt matter there is no 2 v 2 or 3 v 3 tournies like in gw1 and there is very rarely those cases in WVWVW….and if there is they have 0 bearing on score or reward. personal satisfaction is all that can be achieved and very ararely that bc usually people help and jump in less it be a civilized mutual duel. back to point. thieves have to stay on the edge of fighting. utilizing very few skills they actually have. if you can try SS into the middle of a fight in zvz…..not into the middle of their zerg just at the Point of Contact area….i guarantee u port back in less than 2 seconds having done very little of anything. you really have to…..or die from ranged CC/dmg. i have 12k kills on my thief. (not sure if thats alot but i know its enough to know what im talkin about) so its venom share and sb for me helping my guild in zvz. and we run a VERY organized ZVZ. to the point where running anything else is hurting my guild.

Dasorine.1964:

Unfortunately WvW wasn’t meant to be balanced around by anets words, and even there a thieves strength lies heavily in their targets court, if that entire zerg cannot kill the thief or lock it in place with all the different ways to CC someone between their stealth (not to mention DURING the stealth at times for those who have managed to keep track of things) then its not just the 3-4 seconds of stealth thats making them “overpowered”, this is also the reason why many people can escape zergs with stealth or without.

Then of course you have the “roamers” who go around solo or in partial teams who then get attacked and die but then again the zone is not designed for those people so while a thief is potentially powerful against them (again depends entirely on the target really, if they know the thief mechanics then its not the thief mechanics that are strong its the player playing it) it comes down to doing something that’s really not intended by either side.

Thief is very very player skill dependant on both sides, take out those factors and thief mechanics are actually very weak, low damage coefficients, low staying power, lowest defense in the entire game.

Start adding them back in and it really comes down to the players, in a 1v1 stealth technically becomes the weakest it will ever be in a fight but the thief itself will be the strongest they ever get, with no one else distracting you from the thieves actions it becomes really quite easy to keep tabs on where the thief is and where they are going which lets you land hits on them while they can’t hit you, however should the thief land its damage with no support that high burst can be the winning factor.

In small group fights stealth becomes the strongest it will ever be but the thief overall becomes much weaker, with people distracting you its hard to keep track of the thief but at the same time you have lots more CC, AoE and ability spam that can take them out accidentally while the thieves attack power isn’t sufficient in those situations, they can potentially down 1 of your glass cannons but outside of that they are below average at dishing out damage to the group and generally a liability as while they may have taken 1 target out they themselves can be taken out just as fast if not faster.

In massive zergs both stealth and thief power plummets, while theres lots to distract you from keeping track of the thief the sheer AoE and skill spam plus the massive burst potential once they pop up can (and should in good groups) mean the thieves death, while the thief again can take possibly 1 person out in a burst build if they are also glass cannons.

Of course there are non burst thief builds that have much better staying powers but those builds no longer have the stealth power of the burst build AND are still technically much weaker than others doing the same.

Had to give you +1 for this. very well said and accurate. But as you subsequently said…. zerg they are bad…..and in wvw zerg is everything. they need to be able to contribute on a lvl as the other classes. they do not! i read alot of “If’s” and “Can’s” in your message. point well taken.

PvP is all about the Ifs not about the Cans Which is something a lot of people forget.

They see something happen against a specific type of player and state this as “A thief CAN do this” when its really “A thief can do this IF”. Or they work on theoretical numbers such as the fact that backstab CAN do a 20k+ hit, conveniently forgetting that this is only IF all the factors (many of which aren’t actually possible for a thief to achieve by themselves) happen.

The other one thats mentioned lots is a thieves ability to escape/reset, yes they CAN do this however they can only do that IF they don’t get hit by a lock down, IF they don’t get burst down themselves, IF the target looses their position, IF they have room to escape in the first place and so on and so forth.

Travlane.5948:

i didnt say they were useless sunflowers i merely state/intended to show that shooting trick shots for MOST people is boring….we wanna use our teleports our blinds our big bursts our cool moves with evade like death blossom or in a zerg u dont really escape. more pull back. if u have to escape with your tails between your legs yes. but then again zerg v zerg isnt about escaping. you have to kill as many as you can depending on th ings like location….waypoint advantage…..how long would it take to run back if you died…..can you be revived…..only sometimes is it better to run “incase” you might die. those cases are USUALLY bc you are in a small group or solo. not in zvz. and i dare say d/d ele can do it better. and people that talk about 1 v5s and 2 v 1s a 1vXs really annoy me (no offense) bc it doesnt matter there is no 2 v 2 or 3 v 3 tournies like in gw1 and there is very rarely those cases in WVWVW….and if there is they have 0 bearing on score or reward. personal satisfaction is all that can be achieved and very ararely that bc usually people help and jump in less it be a civilized mutual duel. back to point. thieves have to stay on the edge of fighting. utilizing very few skills they actually have. if you can try SS into the middle of a fight in zvz…..not into the middle of their zerg just at the Point of Contact area….i guarantee u port back in less than 2 seconds having done very little of anything. you really have to…..or die from ranged CC/dmg. i have 12k kills on my thief. (not sure if thats alot but i know its enough to know what im talkin about) so its venom share and sb for me helping my guild in zvz. and we run a VERY organized ZVZ. to the point where running anything else is hurting my guild.

Yes, so in the end you agree with me that the risk to a thief in WvW is low.

The ‘boring’ argument is kind of pointless though. You don’t think mesmers want to shatter, or eles don’t want to use churning earth? Neither of those work in zergs either.

I don’t see glass cannon mesmers run into the middle of zerg fights and try to shatter people with 3 clones. Obviously if you do that on a thief you’re gonna explode too. It’s the same with every class. Some mechanics are locked out when you decide to stay at range.

Edit: @Dasorine Yeah we can’t escape if we get locked down or bursted, neither can any other class. But when I’m on a thief, having 4 ways to stealth (Pistol 5 + Dagger 2, Blinding Powder, Hide in Shadows, Shadow Refuge) means I can escape almost all the time. If they are all on cooldown then I just die. So will any other class without their escape abilities.

Basically what you’re saying is that thieves can escape if certain conditions are met. What I’m trying to tell you is that these conditions are extremely easy to satisfy.

Sunflowers.1729:

Travlane.5948:

i didnt say they were useless sunflowers i merely state/intended to show that shooting trick shots for MOST people is boring….we wanna use our teleports our blinds our big bursts our cool moves with evade like death blossom or in a zerg u dont really escape. more pull back. if u have to escape with your tails between your legs yes. but then again zerg v zerg isnt about escaping. you have to kill as many as you can depending on th ings like location….waypoint advantage…..how long would it take to run back if you died…..can you be revived…..only sometimes is it better to run “incase” you might die. those cases are USUALLY bc you are in a small group or solo. not in zvz. and i dare say d/d ele can do it better. and people that talk about 1 v5s and 2 v 1s a 1vXs really annoy me (no offense) bc it doesnt matter there is no 2 v 2 or 3 v 3 tournies like in gw1 and there is very rarely those cases in WVWVW….and if there is they have 0 bearing on score or reward. personal satisfaction is all that can be achieved and very ararely that bc usually people help and jump in less it be a civilized mutual duel. back to point. thieves have to stay on the edge of fighting. utilizing very few skills they actually have. if you can try SS into the middle of a fight in zvz…..not into the middle of their zerg just at the Point of Contact area….i guarantee u port back in less than 2 seconds having done very little of anything. you really have to…..or die from ranged CC/dmg. i have 12k kills on my thief. (not sure if thats alot but i know its enough to know what im talkin about) so its venom share and sb for me helping my guild in zvz. and we run a VERY organized ZVZ. to the point where running anything else is hurting my guild.

Yes, so in the end you agree with me that the risk to a thief in WvW is low.

The ‘boring’ argument is kind of pointless though. You don’t think mesmers want to shatter, or eles don’t want to use churning earth? Neither of those work in zergs either.

I don’t see glass cannon mesmers run into the middle of zerg fights and try to shatter people with 3 clones. Obviously if you do that on a thief you’re gonna explode too. It’s the same with every class. Some mechanics are locked out when you decide to stay at range.

before i agree define “risk” plz

well ther are other classes that could get ownd but not nearlly 1/2 as fast as a thief for 1…for 2 thief has 1 AOE dmg skill : cluster bomb :P nothing else.

Risk? How easy it is to get killed when not playing like an idiot. If someone decides to run in 1v50 obviously a guardian will last (slightly) longer, but that’s just stupid.

If a group of 5+ meets me in the open field, I’ll escape. My Guardian will take a zillion damage while immobilized, and die. If someone decides to go 1v1 (due to just crossing paths or whatever) and I lose, my Mesmer will get hunted down and killed. My Thief lives to see another day.

Cluster bomb may be our only area damage skill (except poison field and dagger storm) but it’s spammable and really useful. With other classes 1 area skill means they can use it every so often. For us it just means the initiative cost is the only factor (and cluster bomb is really cheap).

Sunflowers, what your stating is basically that because you utilize 2 utilities, your heal skill and all your initiative you can escape, while that is “Easy” as pressing the buttons, mechanically its hard, your utilizing almost everything available to the profession for those circumstances, which means you don’t have everything else. Other professions could also load all their defensive/escape utilities and weapon sets up and they’d also have an easy time escaping if they were all up and ready.

Thats not exactly something new or something “op” or even something about thief balance.

Though when it comes down to it even with all of them up, escape is not as guaranteed as say a perma swiftness run with invulnerability/stability up or a ride the lightning out.

Compared to anything like those your escape utilities are much easier to stop, shadow refuge you can just be thrown out of the circle which also makes most your others unusable, heck you could just be locked in place IN the circle for most of the stealth if people have the skills on them and at the very least you’ve marked the area your stood for a good 4 seconds, the pistol+dagger only works if you haven’t spent your initiative on attacking and just like blinding powder and hide in shadows your still vulnerable to cc’s and damage.

As the game gets older and people in PvP start learning these methods of escape will become weaker and weaker simply due to the fact that it relies on them not knowing where you are and where your going, after so long people will keep an eye on where you go invisible and will know where your going to run simply due to experience and circumstances.

While things like invulnerable runs and such will remain powerful.

In the same vein those guardians/warriors/eles/engineers etc etc that can jump into small groups and fight and survive will continue to do so while thieves that do the same will gradually start finding the players in said groups start just ignoring stealth (either by just ignoring and moving on or actively killing you regardless of being invisible or not) or stop running builds that thieves can kill.

And thats very much where the risk is for a thief, yes we get good access to stealth but stealth itself brings very little to surviving, the risk is always that someone will keep track of you or that they’ll have the where with all to drop their own bursts on you the moment you become visible, thats a risk no one else shares.

Yes their risk is similiar it comes down to “Can I survive this many people fighting me” this risk is almost always the same, with a static reliable defense if you can take 5 people hitting you, you can pretty much be assured that you can always take 5 people hitting you (yes there are outlying factors that can change this but on average it holds true), the thief has no such reliability, each fight can be massively different from the last you might be able to take out 20 people if they haven’t a clue how stealth works but the next group someone might have something simple as a full adrenaline bar and eviscerate up and pow your dead because you have no way to prevent damage other than evading and hoping they don’t target you.

So really it comes down to other peoples “risk” is a reliable thing they can calculate, they can know exactly how much damage they can do and how much they can take and how much they can mitigate, a thief has no such way to know and thats why a thief is not “low risk” at any time.

Look where did I say it was OP?

All I am saying is that thieves are hard to kill in WvW. So maybe I have to use up all my initiative and cooldowns (depends), but I can still get away.

If you have a completely bunker guardian, guess what they can’t run away from encounters they lose. Even with all their cooldowns up.

Also if you use Shadow Refuge next to a zerg that’s kind of asking to get pulled. Use some skill to reposition further away and then use it. Any mesmers approaching? Just dodge a few times.

Edit: This argument is silly. You know what? Just keep the thief in its’ current state. I’ll be happy and keep owning people in WvW.

@SUNFLOWERS ….you define risk as surviving /escaping an unsurmountable force. one could also look at that as RISK = Saving 10-25 seconds of running back / saving 1silver 50copper. If u look at it that way. its still not a balanced/op matter. you could say its not fair that thieves dont pay more for repairs since they die less….but then you would sound like a cry baby so its remolded into “unbalanced capabilities”. just another perspective :P

@sunflowers. just curious but what class are you? obv not a thief. idk about other people but i dont go to ele rooms and complain that they can spam skills 2-5 literally for hours making other classes look like fumbling infants. what you are doing is trolling. if u wanna post here plz do but be conductive to the chat and productive in suggestions. not saying “thats a bad idea and stupid/op” say “well maybe if they did it for this long or like this blah blah instead” you know? we would love to hear other classes input from their perspective. just as we play thief and u dont know the trials/tribulations we go thru….we may be slighlty more ignorant as to what u go thru as a non thief. try stay positive/open minded ya?

That sunflowers doesn’t come down to risk but comes down to profession designs.

A class designed for mobility being more mobile than one designed for holding their ground have 2 totally different situations.

Running into a full zerg by yourself as a guardian is an idiotic move in the same way that standing your ground and taking hits to pull of your own is an idiotic move for a thief.

The fact that a thief has the potential to escape that zerg doesnt mean they have less risk engaging that zerg, they are more susceptible to being instantly killed than the guardian and such. In fact if the zerg doesn’t instantly kill the thief the moment they make an attack its not because of stealth, or because of “low risk” its because of poor playing on their part.

In any given situation that is sensible and for what a profession is designed for, the thief has the greater risk on the basis that they have the highest potential to be killed and the highest potential of their defenses being made almost useless, that doesn’t change just because it works out many times due to player skill levels, the risk is still there.

Stating “because I have x y and z I can almost always escape” doesnt change the fact that for example a guardian with invuln/stability, swiftness and a wall that stops the zerg chasing them could acheive the same but at the same time without the risk of their defenses being ignored.

Look at the previous page, there’s a screenshot of my thief.

I play ele, guardian, thief, and mesmer. If the elementalist is borderline OP, guess what? I speak out against it. If the thief has ridiculous escape skills and people say that they don’t, I’ll say that they are mistaken.

Edit: If this conversation keeps up I’ll just have to post a video of me WvWing and rarely dying. No edits, just one long clip.

well said. or eles that use their speed RTL and stun AOE thats huge….or mesmers that clone/invis….or warriors which are the fastest movers in game by atleast double maybe tripple …..or engi with allt he bombs/immobs…..or necro life skills/ice AOE i mean every class can do it. thieves do have good mobility *2nd best or tied with warriors for 2nd best and can get out …..but dont forget thats only the case if another thief doesnt catch them. :P ive had a thief try to run away before. i infiltors striked to a Shadow step to a infiltraors signet to a switch to d/d to a steal to a CND BS HS finish all in under 3 secs. so if u say thieves can get away everytime plz put an asterisk saying against a zerg with 0 thieves. or it wont be valid or not AS valid. a thief only has invis skills after they recharge dontforget. if theyve been fighting all they have is kitten and a few HS’s. (btw that string was prolly around 4k distance)

and i can show a video of me on an OFFENSIVE BUILD owning players but dying in zerg fighting. even tryign to be smart. it goes hand n hand. the game isn about getting away its about defending poitns and killing other zergs/capping enemies areas. getting away like i said….saves 10-25 secons and 1silver 50copper roughly. would u like me to send you 1g in the game so you feel thieves are on par and fair? :P

Look I don’t understand why you guys are so defensive.

I said thieves are good at running away (low risk) compared to any other class.

Find anywhere where I said thieves are OP. You can’t (in fact I said multiple times, that thieves are NOT OP). I just said they are good at running away.

What is with you people and misreading comments?

“How easy it is to get killed when not playing like an idiot.” Very easy. and not trying to argue here….but nobody is talking about saving a few silver or 10-25 seconds at a time. risk in my opinion is about how many times you die vs how many you can kill/save/quality of contribution. if in a zerg a thief is going to us SB trickshot and venom share. he cant use melee…..funny that most of their skills/traits are for melee . if so why cant they use them in zerg fighting. its bc they die instantly. ok lets say you fight 1 person and win. then somebody else comes as your depleted on everything bc thats what happens to thieves when they win or lose. you die. here is another….u down a guy after a good fight…..just about to stop and he stops u and another person comes…..if u have enough you can stealth but most of the time u have to wait. you see it on thief videos all the time. most of the time you die bc ur low on HP low on inti and waiting 60 secs for utilities to come back…gg you die. so risk is actually very high if fighting. if the goal is to run then the risk is low. that would make you correct. but fighting to win/hold a point/take a camp/tower/keep….the poitn is not to run away. you are better off fighting to the bitter end to help allies and push on hoping they can finish or revive you. hence the risk is actualy the highest for a thief. perhaps that is where the confusion lay. risk being on surviving or winning. in our opinions its winning. but whener or not you die to a 1 v 50 doesnt matter bc u werent guarding or attackign anything u were just wandering/roaming/getting to commander so it has no bearing on anything. risk is how likely you are to die i an 8 v 8 TPVP or in zerg v zerg play. and its very obviously that unless a thief says “screw this” and tries to bounce…then the thief risk is actually the highest. 8 v 8. 1 of each class on each team. i would love to see a sample population of 1000trials of live play (computer simulation is inacurate as human reaction time is not even close to computers) to see how the average death time of each class in its propsective roles. i bet thief is number 1 . guards being defensive/heals and thieves being low hp/defense/high attack and so on so forth et cetera et cetera et cetera

Look, I’m done here. In fact if you want to believe that thieves are easy to kill in WvW then…go ahead. I don’t want to read through that wall of questionable grammar either.

I wouldn’t mind if they gave us even more escapes! Then I’ll finally be able to decide on which character to get ascended gear on. Hint: it’s not the guardian.

some typos sure but im on a tablet and i have rather large hands being 6’3" and all. im not trying to give you a hard time. im just saying….if a thief fights the risk is the highest….if he doesnt wanna fight its one fo the 2 lowest….. my point was the game isnt about running….bc if it were thieves would be tied with warriors and eles :P

more spelling than grammar but yeah i guess i had a few keystroke slips :p

Redscope.6215:

Ekemeister.8905:

Also, thief is probably the farthest from God mode. Thief takes planning and good execution to simply be average and predictable. Playing my warrior after running as a thief is like taking off the weight vest after owning a 2 on 1 match in a sports drink commercial. If you want God mode, roll Guardian. I walked through packs of hyenas that killed my warrior without a single down on my guardian. Guardian buffs, traits, and aegis can mitigate huge amounts of damage, while the guardian still is a significant dps and hps source. Roll a thief, get to lv 40 without any sort of crafting or wvw leveling, and then come tell me how OP they are.

Rolling a guard in PvE and soaking damage while sucking on your thumb is not comparable to what it takes to PvP with one. Sorry, but your talking about the opposite side of the game here. Warriors are PvE gods because the mobs in this game don’t kite you, they hardly CC you, they have big “dodge now” telegraphed hits, they don’t go invisible every 3 (now 4) seconds, they don’t heal themsleves, and they sure as hell don’t cure their conditions.

So yeah, go roll the CnD/Steal/BS thief in PvE and let me know how terrible he is. How much he needs improvement because he doesn’t one-shot Kralkatorrik and therefore he’s worthless. I’ll still be fighting them in sPvP and WvW because its just such a terrible build.

Except hammer guard can make or break a team easily in tpvp. I laughed loud enough to peeve my roomie when playing conquest, casting VoJ RoW and laying the smackdown alongside a guildie using 100b. If you’re saying it’s near impossible to go god mode as a guardian with a node capturing partner, I’ll just leave you content with your error. error such as thieves being completely overpowered, for example.

Travlane.5948:

some typos sure but im on a tablet and i have rather large hands being 6’3" and all. im not trying to give you a hard time. im just saying….if a thief fights the risk is the highest….if he doesnt wanna fight its one fo the 2 lowest….. my point was the game isnt about running….bc if it were thieves would be tied with warriors and eles :P

Just talk about the game and leave personal info and invectives out of the forums please.

Sunflowers.1729:

And as for your point about WvW balance, where do you think the 4s revealed debuff came from? Certainly not because thieves are amazing at sPvP. It’s a game mode that loads of people play, even more than sPvP. Why shouldn’t it be balanced?

Because the revealed mechanic is a logical and effective way to counter abuse of the stealth mechanic and every other class is now satisfied with how stealth works.

Whatever their reason was to implement revealed; it’s kittening kitten

Sunflowers.1729:

Look I don’t understand why you guys are so defensive.

I said thieves are good at running away (low risk) compared to any other class.

Find anywhere where I said thieves are OP. You can’t (in fact I said multiple times, that thieves are NOT OP). I just said they are good at running away.

What is with you people and misreading comments?

Running away is our defensive strategy, we have to be good at it. Stealth is what we got instead of good armor defense and access to boons.

I think there’s such a thing as a class being too capable of something, hence the “low risk”.

And yet stealth is not a guarantee unlike other people mechanics so how can it be low risk when theres always the possibility someone will just kill you while your in it?

It would only be low risk if it was guaranteed to allow you to escape every single time with nothing the enemy can do about it, which it isn’t. Compared to all other mechanisms it has the greatest chance of been made redundant by the enemy.

I think thieves are in a good place right now.
They no longer can spam their attacks and expect to win the battle, they have to keep thier wits.

My first character was a thief and I loved it.
Now I’m starting a Mesmer,and as a mesmer the 2nd easiest class for me to insta kill is the thief (first being the warrior,by very short).
Just yesterday I insta gibbed a p/p thief, I anticipated he would start the duel with unload, so I imediately followed up with’ Mirror’ (reflects projectiles for 2s and heals).
It was so satisfying to see the. Umbers fly over his head 1k, 2k,3k
I then followed up with a standard shatter burst and the fight was over before it even begun.
Another nice duel was with a very glasscanony thief,as soon as he applied Basilisk venom (I saw the buff icon underneath his health bar,very helpful!) I responded with ‘riptose’ (aegis+clone on block),that literally destroyed his combo, and I then proceeded with my shatter burst and took him down.

The only time a thief can be truly lethal is in a group fight, when you’re too busy fighting the other guys the thief suddenly pops out of thin air and finishes you off so quickly that you never have the chance to react.
You’re dead before you know it :P

Ekemeister.8905:

Redscope.6215:

Ekemeister.8905:

Also, thief is probably the farthest from God mode. Thief takes planning and good execution to simply be average and predictable. Playing my warrior after running as a thief is like taking off the weight vest after owning a 2 on 1 match in a sports drink commercial. If you want God mode, roll Guardian. I walked through packs of hyenas that killed my warrior without a single down on my guardian. Guardian buffs, traits, and aegis can mitigate huge amounts of damage, while the guardian still is a significant dps and hps source. Roll a thief, get to lv 40 without any sort of crafting or wvw leveling, and then come tell me how OP they are.

Rolling a guard in PvE and soaking damage while sucking on your thumb is not comparable to what it takes to PvP with one. Sorry, but your talking about the opposite side of the game here. Warriors are PvE gods because the mobs in this game don’t kite you, they hardly CC you, they have big “dodge now” telegraphed hits, they don’t go invisible every 3 (now 4) seconds, they don’t heal themsleves, and they sure as hell don’t cure their conditions.

So yeah, go roll the CnD/Steal/BS thief in PvE and let me know how terrible he is. How much he needs improvement because he doesn’t one-shot Kralkatorrik and therefore he’s worthless. I’ll still be fighting them in sPvP and WvW because its just such a terrible build.

Except hammer guard can make or break a team easily in tpvp. I laughed loud enough to peeve my roomie when playing conquest, casting VoJ RoW and laying the smackdown alongside a guildie using 100b. If you’re saying it’s near impossible to go god mode as a guardian with a node capturing partner, I’ll just leave you content with your error. error such as thieves being completely overpowered, for example.

Travlane.5948:

some typos sure but im on a tablet and i have rather large hands being 6’3" and all. im not trying to give you a hard time. im just saying….if a thief fights the risk is the highest….if he doesnt wanna fight its one fo the 2 lowest….. my point was the game isnt about running….bc if it were thieves would be tied with warriors and eles :P

Just talk about the game and leave personal info and invectives out of the forums please.

i mentioned i was large and have a hard time typing on my tblet……its ok to write that…100% ok. especially if somebody made a dig at my typos. ty for caring tho i suppose

MightyMe.1356:

I think thieves are in a good place right now.
They no longer can spam their attacks and expect to win the battle, they have to keep thier wits.

My first character was a thief and I loved it.
Now I’m starting a Mesmer,and as a mesmer the 2nd easiest class for me to insta kill is the thief (first being the warrior,by very short).
Just yesterday I insta gibbed a p/p thief, I anticipated he would start the duel with unload, so I imediately followed up with’ Mirror’ (reflects projectiles for 2s and heals).
It was so satisfying to see the. Umbers fly over his head 1k, 2k,3k
I then followed up with a standard shatter burst and the fight was over before it even begun.
Another nice duel was with a very glasscanony thief,as soon as he applied Basilisk venom (I saw the buff icon underneath his health bar,very helpful!) I responded with ‘riptose’ (aegis+clone on block),that literally destroyed his combo, and I then proceeded with my shatter burst and took him down.

The only time a thief can be truly lethal is in a group fight, when you’re too busy fighting the other guys the thief suddenly pops out of thin air and finishes you off so quickly that you never have the chance to react.
You’re dead before you know it :P

thieves are getting very closed to being balanced right now. but they are also only good depending on the level of player playing them. you can see good players of any class regardless of the person playing them. thieves have to chain skills and almost all of them at same time just to try stay alive and also at the same time kill 1 person and you can forget about stomping them its more often not going to happen. unless ur talking small groups but u guess alot of you play on TIER 7 or 6 or 8 etc…..i dont we have 100 man zergs on every map everyday. so in the larger picture of spvp and wvw thiefs are going to get buffed…..revealed will be back at 3 secs and the devs said they are going to make the class defence better by making them more “slippery”. be ready. they are almost there.

Dasorine.1964:

And yet stealth is not a guarantee unlike other people mechanics so how can it be low risk when theres always the possibility someone will just kill you while your in it?

It would only be low risk if it was guaranteed to allow you to escape every single time with nothing the enemy can do about it, which it isn’t. Compared to all other mechanisms it has the greatest chance of been made redundant by the enemy.

No, actually, what you’re describing here would be zero risk.
If something almost always works that makes it low-risk. If it always works then it’s zero.

No because you’d still have the risks outside of that, if stealth guaranteed you could escape with it up then it would be low risk, the risk coming from being made unable to activate it via stuns, knockdowns, instant death etc etc.

Right now there is no guarantee that stealthing will actually achieve anything, on top of that thieves have the lowest defense in the game due to lack of static damage reduction meaning that in any given encounter theres a high risk the thief will be killed before accomplishing anything.

u guys are talking pre and post. either way there is always risk.

Hi 2 this thread, I’m a thief and killing other thieves is my passion. I miss hunting wildbill his alt f4 skills legendary!

Fenrir.4237:

DanH.5879:

please nerf the thief in wvw/spvp as much as you wish,
but please balance the pve one, right now, we are not equals (other classes are prefered more in dungeons than others)
eg. warrior was op already in pve, now with the banner buff, it’s almost a must, as guardians :/
balance us in pve and i will be happy

PvE will never be remotely good. NEVER. Maybe 100 years from now, but Player versus AI can be exploited so hard, and no matter how smart you make the AI, it’s still dumb as hell imo. This is why PvE can only go so far but PvP can go endlessly. And if you think PvE is, then you’re just delusional. Not at this moment of time at least and not soon either, that’s for kitten sure.

Anet made a huge mistake in not realizing this but eh that’s for an other topic I don’t really want to go to in-depth about anyways.

It’s just my take on it, and yea, I’m glad as well you don’t speak for all of us. Real glad.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Fenrir.4237:

randomfightfan.4091:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

What you quoted originally was talking about 100nades, which you responded to without changing the subject to Grenade Barrage, therefore your subject remained 100nades.
The entire conversation was about 100nades, not Grenade Barrage, as GB is not a problem on its own. Then you come in, start talking about GB without actually changing the subject, and you look like an idiot because it looks like you think 100nades is easy to land and has a huge effective radius.

Not my fault you lack the communication skills needed for a coherent conversation.

Is true, I made a mistake there. Still don’t know why you try to make yourself out to be the jerk at every topic. seriously, please stop that… it’s very annoying. Also, one of the topics you quoted was me linking grenade barrage and me commenting on the skill itself.

Eh don’t mind him dude. He’s just going to pick at every little wrong thing you might of said and not even discuss the main point your post is trying to make. Did that with me too in the other thread. Your point still holds.

What “point”? He came into the conversation (comparing 100nades to BS burst), said something completely irrelevant to the conversation while pretending it was relevant, derailing the conversation, and then got into a long argument because he didn’t communicate the point well enough to know what he was talking about.

lol

That is your opinion, but the PvE component in this game is vastly more popular than the PvP one. In any case, I think it’s important for us to realize that what works in PvP doesn’t necessarily work in PvE, and balance needs to take this into consideration.

Sunflowers.1729:

Asomal.6453:

Thieves are the second worst pvp class in the game, just ahead of warriors. If you think they are somehow OP, low risk/high reward, I suggest you L2P. I know it sounds harsh, but someone had to say it, I’m tired of this nonsense since September 2012.

/thread?

@edit

About WvWvW balance, gtfo. It was never meant to be balanced in the first place.

I do agree that thieves suck in sPvP, but this isn’t because they are somehow underpowered, it’s just how thieves are designed.

Is it a wonder to anyone that a mobile class designed to engage and disengage at will, is bad at standing in small circles? Stealth doesn’t work in sPvP for capping. If you can’t beat someone in sPvP, you lose the point (in WvW, you just run away so nobody wins).

And as for your point about WvW balance, where do you think the 4s revealed debuff came from? Certainly not because thieves are amazing at sPvP. It’s a game mode that loads of people play, even more than sPvP. Why shouldn’t it be balanced?

Edit: When people say high reward low risk it usually refers to WvW. Believe it or not a lot of people like to play in there.

The irony is, people complaining about ‘perma-stealth’ in most cases meant chaining CnD with timing. That revealed increase does nothing to change that xD, go Anet!

(I think 3 seconds revealed was fine, heck, thieves are easy to begin with).

Thieves are meant to be the best at getting away yes, and regardless of what anyone says they are good at escapes. Sadly D/D is arguably better, when it shouldn’t be, but Anet is addressing that soon (or so they say <_<).

I wouldn’t mind if thieves got a buff tbh, its easy badges and the easiest class i face in wvw as a Guardian. Being a class built around anti-melee it makes sense, I’ve literally had it where thieves couldn’t land 1 back stab on me before in a 5 minute fight. Blocks and dodges galore, even really high dps warriors pose more of a threat. Actually they have a lot of pressure, deadly strikes, thieves not so much.

Anet, please buff thieves, coming from a guardian :P

For anyone wondering why I wan’t it harder to beat, is for youtube. I want to start making videos of WvW action, more so for entertainment then skill showing or boasting etc, with good well placed effects, but every fight I get into with a thief is a steam roll where they die with me popping hardly any cool downs, or where they play so defensive I don’t pop anything but we both get bored and leave <_<. That doesn’t make for good media.

well said killer angel. and pvpers do complain more. thats the only problem. pve .. is so easy you could take stealth out and thieves could…still kinda get by if they had invades rreplaced with by stealths.

PistolWhip.2697:

Sunflowers.1729:

Asomal.6453:

Thieves are the second worst pvp class in the game, just ahead of warriors. If you think they are somehow OP, low risk/high reward, I suggest you L2P. I know it sounds harsh, but someone had to say it, I’m tired of this nonsense since September 2012.

/thread?

@edit

About WvWvW balance, gtfo. It was never meant to be balanced in the first place.

I do agree that thieves suck in sPvP, but this isn’t because they are somehow underpowered, it’s just how thieves are designed.

Is it a wonder to anyone that a mobile class designed to engage and disengage at will, is bad at standing in small circles? Stealth doesn’t work in sPvP for capping. If you can’t beat someone in sPvP, you lose the point (in WvW, you just run away so nobody wins).

And as for your point about WvW balance, where do you think the 4s revealed debuff came from? Certainly not because thieves are amazing at sPvP. It’s a game mode that loads of people play, even more than sPvP. Why shouldn’t it be balanced?

Edit: When people say high reward low risk it usually refers to WvW. Believe it or not a lot of people like to play in there.

The irony is, people complaining about ‘perma-stealth’ in most cases meant chaining CnD with timing. That revealed increase does nothing to change that xD, go Anet!

(I think 3 seconds revealed was fine, heck, thieves are easy to begin with).

Thieves are meant to be the best at getting away yes, and regardless of what anyone says they are good at escapes. Sadly D/D is arguably better, when it shouldn’t be, but Anet is addressing that soon (or so they say <_<).

I wouldn’t mind if thieves got a buff tbh, its easy badges and the easiest class i face in wvw as a Guardian. Being a class built around anti-melee it makes sense, I’ve literally had it where thieves couldn’t land 1 back stab on me before in a 5 minute fight. Blocks and dodges galore, even really high dps warriors pose more of a threat. Actually they have a lot of pressure, deadly strikes, thieves not so much.

Anet, please buff thieves, coming from a guardian :P

For anyone wondering why I wan’t it harder to beat, is for youtube. I want to start making videos of WvW action, more so for entertainment then skill showing or boasting etc, with good well placed effects, but every fight I get into with a thief is a steam roll where they die with me popping hardly any cool downs, or where they play so defensive I don’t pop anything but we both get bored and leave <_<. That doesn’t make for good media.

ur a good player it sounds….anet has to account for bumble farkers. :P

Thank you, I appreciate the kind words but I think its more so mechanic. Like I said, Guardian is Anti-melee to the teeth, or at least the build I run, Sword Focus shuts down a lot of melee. Heck I just use focus 5 and unload on a thief most of the time shutting down their burst while they take mine lol.

Most of the people who complain about thieves have personal L2 kitten ues, or extremely bad luck (connection+terrain etc).

I like my thief. I stab people then stand on the shadows and noone can see me

Robert Hrouda.1327:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

So why is this not ok but thief burst is?

Because there is play in thief burst. There is play there, and that spike isn’t a single attack that’s 150% your max HP in damage. Thieves need to execute a series of skills in a row, in which at any time the victim has the potential to mitigate or have some sort of play to save themselves or stop the thief. You just don’t see that with the 100nades stuff, or its a window so narrow that we as devs weren’t happy with the play from both sides of the equation as attacker/defender.

You Sir, don’t know what you are talking about! A thief needs only 2 skills to kill a necro in 1 or 2 seconds. An ape can do this. I can avoid 100 nades by dodging but i can’t dodge a thief in stealth. Port-damage + 1 hit and thats it. Get it! Fix that op lame class and stop searching for excuses. And next time please play against a good thief with your ranger and you’ll see (or not) that you can’t even hit him because before you can aim at him he is back in stealth. Learn to balance a game and remove bugs and such overpowerness. BTW i play a thief by myself and i definitly know it’s op. So not so much a thief-hater but someone who uses his brain to recognize it’s just op.

Moira, would you say you’re a good thief? Just out of curiosity?

Moira Dryade.6498:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

So why is this not ok but thief burst is?

Because there is play in thief burst. There is play there, and that spike isn’t a single attack that’s 150% your max HP in damage. Thieves need to execute a series of skills in a row, in which at any time the victim has the potential to mitigate or have some sort of play to save themselves or stop the thief. You just don’t see that with the 100nades stuff, or its a window so narrow that we as devs weren’t happy with the play from both sides of the equation as attacker/defender.

You Sir, don’t know what you are talking about! A thief needs only 2 skills to kill a necro in 1 or 2 seconds. An ape can do this. I can avoid 100 nades by dodging but i can’t dodge a thief in stealth. Port-damage + 1 hit and thats it. Get it! Fix that op lame class and stop searching for excuses. And next time please play against a good thief with your ranger and you’ll see (or not) that you can’t even hit him because before you can aim at him he is back in stealth. Learn to balance a game and remove bugs and such overpowerness. BTW i play a thief by myself and i definitly know it’s op. So not so much a thief-hater but someone who uses his brain to recognize it’s just op.

A thief with 2 skills will do 0 damage to any necro that isn’t mentally impaired.

I mean, it’s either Steal (mug/stealth) to Backstab or CnD to backstab, both of which are easy to avoid… especially without a third skill called Basilisk Venom. And then you’re still doing kitten damage, because you need steal, CnD, backstab and basilisk to break 10k if everything crits. Another random bad player that knows nothing about thieves.

Humorless.1573:

Moira Dryade.6498:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

So why is this not ok but thief burst is?

Because there is play in thief burst. There is play there, and that spike isn’t a single attack that’s 150% your max HP in damage. Thieves need to execute a series of skills in a row, in which at any time the victim has the potential to mitigate or have some sort of play to save themselves or stop the thief. You just don’t see that with the 100nades stuff, or its a window so narrow that we as devs weren’t happy with the play from both sides of the equation as attacker/defender.

You Sir, don’t know what you are talking about! A thief needs only 2 skills to kill a necro in 1 or 2 seconds. An ape can do this. I can avoid 100 nades by dodging but i can’t dodge a thief in stealth. Port-damage + 1 hit and thats it. Get it! Fix that op lame class and stop searching for excuses. And next time please play against a good thief with your ranger and you’ll see (or not) that you can’t even hit him because before you can aim at him he is back in stealth. Learn to balance a game and remove bugs and such overpowerness. BTW i play a thief by myself and i definitly know it’s op. So not so much a thief-hater but someone who uses his brain to recognize it’s just op.

A thief with 2 skills will do 0 damage to any necro that isn’t mentally impaired.

I mean, it’s either Steal (mug/stealth) to Backstab or CnD to backstab, both of which are easy to avoid… especially without a third skill called Basilisk Venom. And then you’re still doing kitten damage, because you need steal, CnD, backstab and basilisk to break 10k if everything crits. Another random bad player that knows nothing about thieves.

I don’t count steal as a skill. And i don’t count the stealth. A thief in stealth just needs 2 skills to kill a necro in less than 2 seconds. You don’t even have time to heal or remove conditions or whatever. If you say it’s possible make a video of it. I say it’s impossible and I play necro and thief so I know what i’m talking about.
Seems more like you don’t know anything about necros.

Moira Dryade.6498:

Humorless.1573:

Moira Dryade.6498:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

So why is this not ok but thief burst is?

Because there is play in thief burst. There is play there, and that spike isn’t a single attack that’s 150% your max HP in damage. Thieves need to execute a series of skills in a row, in which at any time the victim has the potential to mitigate or have some sort of play to save themselves or stop the thief. You just don’t see that with the 100nades stuff, or its a window so narrow that we as devs weren’t happy with the play from both sides of the equation as attacker/defender.

You Sir, don’t know what you are talking about! A thief needs only 2 skills to kill a necro in 1 or 2 seconds. An ape can do this. I can avoid 100 nades by dodging but i can’t dodge a thief in stealth. Port-damage + 1 hit and thats it. Get it! Fix that op lame class and stop searching for excuses. And next time please play against a good thief with your ranger and you’ll see (or not) that you can’t even hit him because before you can aim at him he is back in stealth. Learn to balance a game and remove bugs and such overpowerness. BTW i play a thief by myself and i definitly know it’s op. So not so much a thief-hater but someone who uses his brain to recognize it’s just op.

A thief with 2 skills will do 0 damage to any necro that isn’t mentally impaired.

I mean, it’s either Steal (mug/stealth) to Backstab or CnD to backstab, both of which are easy to avoid… especially without a third skill called Basilisk Venom. And then you’re still doing kitten damage, because you need steal, CnD, backstab and basilisk to break 10k if everything crits. Another random bad player that knows nothing about thieves.

I don’t count steal as a skill. And i don’t count the stealth. A thief in stealth just needs 2 skills to kill a necro in less than 2 seconds. You don’t even have time to heal or remove conditions or whatever. If you say it’s possible make a video of it. I say it’s impossible and I play necro and thief so I know what i’m talking about.
Seems more like you don’t know anything about necros.

Well there’s problem number 1. You’re being approached by a burst that follows the same pattern every time (C+D pre-charge, Steal, Backstab), and your first instinct is not to dodge either the C+D or the Mug + C+D depending on how fast you act, effectively breaking the combo altogether, and/or use damage mitigation eg. Shroud, Well of Darkness and other inhibiting skills. You do not react to whether Basilisk Venom has been equipped on the Thief’s status bar, so you can quickly have your finger over an available stunbreaker should you fail to dodge, and do not make any quick preparation with aforementioned skills against the incoming damage if you do not have stunbreaker and BV is active. Your first instinct is to…use your heal? Remove conditions? I don’t even.

Struggling to find any sense of impossibility here. Either you are just far too slow, or you’re lagging terribly, because this combo is one of the most predictable and easy-to-counter combos in the game, pretty much only topped on the “please kill me”-o-meter by a Bull Charge/Bolas->100b whiz kid.

Moira Dryade.6498:

Humorless.1573:

Moira Dryade.6498:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

So why is this not ok but thief burst is?

Because there is play in thief burst. There is play there, and that spike isn’t a single attack that’s 150% your max HP in damage. Thieves need to execute a series of skills in a row, in which at any time the victim has the potential to mitigate or have some sort of play to save themselves or stop the thief. You just don’t see that with the 100nades stuff, or its a window so narrow that we as devs weren’t happy with the play from both sides of the equation as attacker/defender.

You Sir, don’t know what you are talking about! A thief needs only 2 skills to kill a necro in 1 or 2 seconds. An ape can do this. I can avoid 100 nades by dodging but i can’t dodge a thief in stealth. Port-damage + 1 hit and thats it. Get it! Fix that op lame class and stop searching for excuses. And next time please play against a good thief with your ranger and you’ll see (or not) that you can’t even hit him because before you can aim at him he is back in stealth. Learn to balance a game and remove bugs and such overpowerness. BTW i play a thief by myself and i definitly know it’s op. So not so much a thief-hater but someone who uses his brain to recognize it’s just op.

A thief with 2 skills will do 0 damage to any necro that isn’t mentally impaired.

I mean, it’s either Steal (mug/stealth) to Backstab or CnD to backstab, both of which are easy to avoid… especially without a third skill called Basilisk Venom. And then you’re still doing kitten damage, because you need steal, CnD, backstab and basilisk to break 10k if everything crits. Another random bad player that knows nothing about thieves.

I don’t count steal as a skill. And i don’t count the stealth. A thief in stealth just needs 2 skills to kill a necro in less than 2 seconds. You don’t even have time to heal or remove conditions or whatever. If you say it’s possible make a video of it. I say it’s impossible and I play necro and thief so I know what i’m talking about.
Seems more like you don’t know anything about necros.

Just drop a well of Darkness and laugh at him o.O
And you playing some kind of glassy death shroud crit build? How the hell can a thief kill the class with the largest hp pool in 2 hits?

Auesis.7301:

Moira Dryade.6498:

Humorless.1573:

Moira Dryade.6498:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

So why is this not ok but thief burst is?

Because there is play in thief burst. There is play there, and that spike isn’t a single attack that’s 150% your max HP in damage. Thieves need to execute a series of skills in a row, in which at any time the victim has the potential to mitigate or have some sort of play to save themselves or stop the thief. You just don’t see that with the 100nades stuff, or its a window so narrow that we as devs weren’t happy with the play from both sides of the equation as attacker/defender.

You Sir, don’t know what you are talking about! A thief needs only 2 skills to kill a necro in 1 or 2 seconds. An ape can do this. I can avoid 100 nades by dodging but i can’t dodge a thief in stealth. Port-damage + 1 hit and thats it. Get it! Fix that op lame class and stop searching for excuses. And next time please play against a good thief with your ranger and you’ll see (or not) that you can’t even hit him because before you can aim at him he is back in stealth. Learn to balance a game and remove bugs and such overpowerness. BTW i play a thief by myself and i definitly know it’s op. So not so much a thief-hater but someone who uses his brain to recognize it’s just op.

A thief with 2 skills will do 0 damage to any necro that isn’t mentally impaired.

I mean, it’s either Steal (mug/stealth) to Backstab or CnD to backstab, both of which are easy to avoid… especially without a third skill called Basilisk Venom. And then you’re still doing kitten damage, because you need steal, CnD, backstab and basilisk to break 10k if everything crits. Another random bad player that knows nothing about thieves.

I don’t count steal as a skill. And i don’t count the stealth. A thief in stealth just needs 2 skills to kill a necro in less than 2 seconds. You don’t even have time to heal or remove conditions or whatever. If you say it’s possible make a video of it. I say it’s impossible and I play necro and thief so I know what i’m talking about.
Seems more like you don’t know anything about necros.

Well there’s problem number 1. You’re being approached by a burst that follows the same pattern every time (C+D pre-charge, Steal, Backstab), and your first instinct is not to dodge either the C+D or the Mug + C+D depending on how fast you act, effectively breaking the combo altogether, and/or use damage mitigation eg. Shroud, Well of Darkness and other inhibiting skills. You do not react to whether Basilisk Venom has been equipped on the Thief’s status bar, so you can quickly have your finger over an available stunbreaker should you fail to dodge, and do not make any quick preparation with aforementioned skills against the incoming damage if you do not have stunbreaker and BV is active. Your first instinct is to…use your heal? Remove conditions? I don’t even.

Struggling to find any sense of impossibility here. Either you are just far too slow, or you’re lagging terribly, because this combo is one of the most predictable and easy-to-counter combos in the game, pretty much only topped on the “please kill me”-o-meter by a Bull Charge/Bolas->100b whiz kid.

There ist NOTHING predictable! Because what you can’t see is unpredictable! And there is ZERO time to react. Almost in the same moment the thief appears I’m downed. There is no time to do anything!

naphack.9346:

Just drop a well of Darkness and laugh at him o.O
And you playing some kind of glassy death shroud crit build? How the hell can a thief kill the class with the largest hp pool in 2 hits?

Wow so good ideas cough
1. Well of darkness is useless as long as I don’t see a thief comming in stealth.
Well of darkness is useless because of the epic recast and duration.
Well of darkness is useless because normaly you don’t sit there in a well and wait for thiefs (not to mention that this is impossible) but you walk over the map. Even if it’s just from the spawn whereever towards.

2. I have 30 points in vita, 20 in armor. No “glassy death shroud crit build” found.

3. Good question. Maybe because thiefs ARE JUST OP????????

Moira Dryade.6498:

Auesis.7301:

Moira Dryade.6498:

Humorless.1573:

Moira Dryade.6498:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

So why is this not ok but thief burst is?

Because there is play in thief burst. There is play there, and that spike isn’t a single attack that’s 150% your max HP in damage. Thieves need to execute a series of skills in a row, in which at any time the victim has the potential to mitigate or have some sort of play to save themselves or stop the thief. You just don’t see that with the 100nades stuff, or its a window so narrow that we as devs weren’t happy with the play from both sides of the equation as attacker/defender.

You Sir, don’t know what you are talking about! A thief needs only 2 skills to kill a necro in 1 or 2 seconds. An ape can do this. I can avoid 100 nades by dodging but i can’t dodge a thief in stealth. Port-damage + 1 hit and thats it. Get it! Fix that op lame class and stop searching for excuses. And next time please play against a good thief with your ranger and you’ll see (or not) that you can’t even hit him because before you can aim at him he is back in stealth. Learn to balance a game and remove bugs and such overpowerness. BTW i play a thief by myself and i definitly know it’s op. So not so much a thief-hater but someone who uses his brain to recognize it’s just op.

A thief with 2 skills will do 0 damage to any necro that isn’t mentally impaired.

I mean, it’s either Steal (mug/stealth) to Backstab or CnD to backstab, both of which are easy to avoid… especially without a third skill called Basilisk Venom. And then you’re still doing kitten damage, because you need steal, CnD, backstab and basilisk to break 10k if everything crits. Another random bad player that knows nothing about thieves.

I don’t count steal as a skill. And i don’t count the stealth. A thief in stealth just needs 2 skills to kill a necro in less than 2 seconds. You don’t even have time to heal or remove conditions or whatever. If you say it’s possible make a video of it. I say it’s impossible and I play necro and thief so I know what i’m talking about.
Seems more like you don’t know anything about necros.

Well there’s problem number 1. You’re being approached by a burst that follows the same pattern every time (C+D pre-charge, Steal, Backstab), and your first instinct is not to dodge either the C+D or the Mug + C+D depending on how fast you act, effectively breaking the combo altogether, and/or use damage mitigation eg. Shroud, Well of Darkness and other inhibiting skills. You do not react to whether Basilisk Venom has been equipped on the Thief’s status bar, so you can quickly have your finger over an available stunbreaker should you fail to dodge, and do not make any quick preparation with aforementioned skills against the incoming damage if you do not have stunbreaker and BV is active. Your first instinct is to…use your heal? Remove conditions? I don’t even.

Struggling to find any sense of impossibility here. Either you are just far too slow, or you’re lagging terribly, because this combo is one of the most predictable and easy-to-counter combos in the game, pretty much only topped on the “please kill me”-o-meter by a Bull Charge/Bolas->100b whiz kid.

There ist NOTHING predictable! Because what you can’t see is unpredictable! And there is ZERO time to react. Almost in the same moment the thief appears I’m downed. There is no time to do anything!

Except for the fact ofcourse he IS predictable…
Every time he enters stealth (nice fail on letting him stealth by the way) he is gonna go for a backstab in your back. So he has to walk to your back and he WILL. You know EXACTLY where he is and what he will do yet you claim you don’t. There’s lots of skills and utilities that can save you as a necro vs a thief and he’s never going to kill you in 1 combo anyway as you claimed he would. And even without all those spells you still could just dodgeroll away from where you last saw him and start running, he won’t catch up to you, he’s just going to destealth without having done a backstab.

Thieves are UNDERPOWERED in skilled play.
They are only BELIEVED to be overpowered by people who quite frankly just don’t know what they are doing in low level play and stand there waiting for the thief to show himself again. As if the thief is invulnerable during stealth, which he ain’t and as if it’s not possible to tell where that thief might be, which it is.

If you have trouble fighting a 25/30 backstab glass thief. This is not because that thief as a class is OP. It is because you as a player lack proficient combat awareness to read the enemy’s movement and predict where he is.

He IS going for a backstab, that’s all you needed to know to counter it.

Moira Dryade.6498:

Auesis.7301:

Moira Dryade.6498:

Humorless.1573:

Moira Dryade.6498:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

So why is this not ok but thief burst is?

Because there is play in thief burst. There is play there, and that spike isn’t a single attack that’s 150% your max HP in damage. Thieves need to execute a series of skills in a row, in which at any time the victim has the potential to mitigate or have some sort of play to save themselves or stop the thief. You just don’t see that with the 100nades stuff, or its a window so narrow that we as devs weren’t happy with the play from both sides of the equation as attacker/defender.

You Sir, don’t know what you are talking about! A thief needs only 2 skills to kill a necro in 1 or 2 seconds. An ape can do this. I can avoid 100 nades by dodging but i can’t dodge a thief in stealth. Port-damage + 1 hit and thats it. Get it! Fix that op lame class and stop searching for excuses. And next time please play against a good thief with your ranger and you’ll see (or not) that you can’t even hit him because before you can aim at him he is back in stealth. Learn to balance a game and remove bugs and such overpowerness. BTW i play a thief by myself and i definitly know it’s op. So not so much a thief-hater but someone who uses his brain to recognize it’s just op.

A thief with 2 skills will do 0 damage to any necro that isn’t mentally impaired.

I mean, it’s either Steal (mug/stealth) to Backstab or CnD to backstab, both of which are easy to avoid… especially without a third skill called Basilisk Venom. And then you’re still doing kitten damage, because you need steal, CnD, backstab and basilisk to break 10k if everything crits. Another random bad player that knows nothing about thieves.

I don’t count steal as a skill. And i don’t count the stealth. A thief in stealth just needs 2 skills to kill a necro in less than 2 seconds. You don’t even have time to heal or remove conditions or whatever. If you say it’s possible make a video of it. I say it’s impossible and I play necro and thief so I know what i’m talking about.
Seems more like you don’t know anything about necros.

Well there’s problem number 1. You’re being approached by a burst that follows the same pattern every time (C+D pre-charge, Steal, Backstab), and your first instinct is not to dodge either the C+D or the Mug + C+D depending on how fast you act, effectively breaking the combo altogether, and/or use damage mitigation eg. Shroud, Well of Darkness and other inhibiting skills. You do not react to whether Basilisk Venom has been equipped on the Thief’s status bar, so you can quickly have your finger over an available stunbreaker should you fail to dodge, and do not make any quick preparation with aforementioned skills against the incoming damage if you do not have stunbreaker and BV is active. Your first instinct is to…use your heal? Remove conditions? I don’t even.

Struggling to find any sense of impossibility here. Either you are just far too slow, or you’re lagging terribly, because this combo is one of the most predictable and easy-to-counter combos in the game, pretty much only topped on the “please kill me”-o-meter by a Bull Charge/Bolas->100b whiz kid.

There ist NOTHING predictable! Because what you can’t see is unpredictable! And there is ZERO time to react. Almost in the same moment the thief appears I’m downed. There is no time to do anything!

You take a CnD.
Now you have 3 options:
1) Dodge+heal, thief will have to run
2) Pop Well of Darkness
3) Go into Death Shroud

You can also:
-Dodge and drop some marks
-Teleport to your Flesh Wurm
-Use Plague(lol)
-Dodge and use Locust Swarm/Spectral Walk
-Simply dodge
-Turn around in a panic, scream and go over to the forums to complain

Moira Dryade.6498:

There ist NOTHING predictable! Because what you can’t see is unpredictable! And there is ZERO time to react. Almost in the same moment the thief appears I’m downed. There is no time to do anything!

So you can’t see the Thief, who has not stealthed because he has not hit C+D on you yet, running towards you in plain sight?

Should have gone to Specsavers. That, or you should avoid using hyperbole on the extreme level.