Guild Wars 2

Moira Dryade.6498:

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You Sir, don’t know what you are talking about! A thief needs only 2 skills to kill a necro in 1 or 2 seconds. An ape can do this. I can avoid 100 nades by dodging but i can’t dodge a thief in stealth. Port-damage + 1 hit and thats it. Get it! Fix that op lame class and stop searching for excuses. And next time please play against a good thief with your ranger and you’ll see (or not) that you can’t even hit him because before you can aim at him he is back in stealth. Learn to balance a game and remove bugs and such overpowerness. BTW i play a thief by myself and i definitly know it’s op. So not so much a thief-hater but someone who uses his brain to recognize it’s just op.

I’m sorry but you have no idea what you’re talking about. If the thief is already stealth then they can’t mug to the target. Also it doesn’t matter how you’re built, no thief, anywhere, in the history of anything, can do 20k damage in 1s. Even the perfect cnd, mug, backstab combo will do 15k at best vs a level 80. And that’s assuming the necro doesn’t ds after the steal.

So… to summarize: Everyone has no idea what they’re talking about?

MrForz.1953:

So… to summarize: Everyone has no idea what they’re talking about?

Apparently so.

Vyxion.6358:

Except for the fact ofcourse he IS predictable…
Every time he enters stealth (nice fail on letting him stealth by the way) he is gonna go for a backstab in your back. So he has to walk to your back and he WILL. You know EXACTLY where he is and what he will do yet you claim you don’t. There’s lots of skills and utilities that can save you as a necro vs a thief and he’s never going to kill you in 1 combo anyway as you claimed he would. And even without all those spells you still could just dodgeroll away from where you last saw him and start running, he won’t catch up to you, he’s just going to destealth without having done a backstab.

Thieves are UNDERPOWERED in skilled play.
They are only BELIEVED to be overpowered by people who quite frankly just don’t know what they are doing in low level play and stand there waiting for the thief to show himself again. As if the thief is invulnerable during stealth, which he ain’t and as if it’s not possible to tell where that thief might be, which it is.

If you have trouble fighting a 25/30 backstab glass thief. This is not because that thief as a class is OP. It is because you as a player lack proficient combat awareness to read the enemy’s movement and predict where he is.

He IS going for a backstab, that’s all you needed to know to counter it.

It’s NOT predictable. I’ve seen thiefs comming from the front and kill me within 2 seconds. And I’m sick of all that sooo good ideas. Fail that I let him go into stealth? Oh Lord please tell me how I can prevent them to do this? I’m very interested.

Ah guess what? I don’t want to read or write here anymore. It’s like talking to politicians. They know they are wrong but they just keep on talking ignoring every fact.

But I understood now. All you super-pro guys have no problems with thiefs and thiefs need to be buffed instead of nerfed because they are so weak and predictable…
Oops now I had to vomit about all that ignorance and politician behavor.
What did I wanted to say? A right, i can’t play nor count and even though I play thief and necro by myself and know that I kill necros within 2 or 3 seconds I just don’t know anything about any of the classes. You are so smart and I’m not. I got it now. Really!

Screw this!

DanH.5879:

please nerf the thief in wvw/spvp as much as you wish,
but please balance the pve one, right now, we are not equals (other classes are prefered more in dungeons than others)
eg. warrior was op already in pve, now with the banner buff, it’s almost a must, as guardians :/
balance us in pve and i will be happy

Guardians are warriors are not a must for anything in this game, yes for crappy PUG’s it’s kinda nice to have them, but taking players that know what to do and that have some skills is always better than relying on 2 professions, most my clean runs have been withouth Soldier Professions.

Also Thief in PvE is insanely versatile for a lot of things, 1 of the best combo finisher that is almost spamamble, Cripple spam with Dancing dagger, Stealth, Projectile destroyer, blinding (not as good on bosses but it’s there) and so on.

Moira Dryade.6498:

Fail that I let him go into stealth? Oh Lord please tell me how I can prevent them to do this? I’m very interested.

Dodge the CnD (Very obvious animation, half a second cast time, costs half their initiative to use thus dodging 2 of them = no initiative left on the Thief)

If they’re D/P interrupt the Heartseeker (Combo costs 75% of their initiative, so if you counter it once, then it’s likely that they won’t have the initiative to try again)

If they pop Shadow Refuge to stealth, then Fear/knockback them out of it to give them revealed or spam AoE’s into it (Since they have to stay inside it for the full duration to get the stealth)

If they use Hide in Shadows you can interrupt it (It’s a 1 second cast time with obvious and shiny heal animation) or alternatively, let them cast it and judge how long it’ll take for them to walk over to you, and get behind you and then dodge the inevitable backstab attempt (After which, the stealth will most likely run out and they’re now down a Heal skill for 30 seconds)

If they use Blinding Powder, then judge how long it’d take for them to get to you and get behind you (Pro-tip, if you are constantly moving and changing direction it becomes less likely that a backstab will be successful, and a higher chance of the Thief getting a Facestab for considerably less damage and the revealed debuff) and dodge the backstab. This is one of the 2 Stealths that can’t be countered due to it being instant cast and targetless (Though it’s not used very much due to the little utility it brings when stuff like Shadowstep removes conditions and stuns and Shadow Refuge provides healing and long duration stealth)

If they use Shadow Trap… Then I don’t know how you’d counter that since I’ve not faced anyone who actually used one…

Moira Dryade.6498:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

So why is this not ok but thief burst is?

Because there is play in thief burst. There is play there, and that spike isn’t a single attack that’s 150% your max HP in damage. Thieves need to execute a series of skills in a row, in which at any time the victim has the potential to mitigate or have some sort of play to save themselves or stop the thief. You just don’t see that with the 100nades stuff, or its a window so narrow that we as devs weren’t happy with the play from both sides of the equation as attacker/defender.

You Sir, don’t know what you are talking about! A thief needs only 2 skills to kill a necro in 1 or 2 seconds. An ape can do this. I can avoid 100 nades by dodging but i can’t dodge a thief in stealth. Port-damage + 1 hit and thats it. Get it! Fix that op lame class and stop searching for excuses. And next time please play against a good thief with your ranger and you’ll see (or not) that you can’t even hit him because before you can aim at him he is back in stealth. Learn to balance a game and remove bugs and such overpowerness. BTW i play a thief by myself and i definitly know it’s op. So not so much a thief-hater but someone who uses his brain to recognize it’s just op.

wierd how alot of people play necros man more times so than a thief in wvw and pvp huh? if u cant dodge a thief backstab ur a nub. sicne you are so bad i will tell you how. use ice to freeze them for the 3-4 secs and keep walking backwards. stand in the middle of your minion and he usually gets hit first. can also turn in a circle while in minion …even smaller chance. use ice then ferar or just fear. fight near a cliff. use the terrain. circle around a tree. but ur back up to a tower wall. when they go invis. cout 1 ….2 seconds….and at 2.5 secons roll backwards. when a thief goes invis backstep for 2 secs then run forwards for the last 2. these are all tricks i use. please L2P . and use CC when u can. and its GG. ur a bad player so before you hate ….get good . ty.

oh and necros have so much HP boosting skills its sick. i never kill GOOD necros super fast. the only time a thief can kill in 2 secs is if you have full…and i mean full zerk gear or you are a total upscale nub.

Travlane.5948:

oh and necros have so much HP boosting skills its sick. i never kill GOOD necros super fast. the only time a thief can kill in 2 secs is if you have full…and i mean full zerk gear or you are a total upscale nub.

Full shroud crit build in full zerks without the shroud, you traited so much in having any life force left
Aka using the wrong build the wrong way.

even if necros just use swarm elite…that is so devastating in spvp and so much extra hp….like double or more i heard. just the elite alone is great and also all the blinds …ice….dmg… poison etc. necros and do much more in SPVP than thieves.

Moira Dryade.6498:

Seems more like you don’t know anything about necros.

Says the person who doesn’t seem to know about Death Shroud.
Or Staves.
…Or Wells.

im talking about plague elite. turn into a swarm etc.

Become a virulent cloud and inflict multiple conditions on foes you touch. Entering this form destroys all minions and removes other spectral effects.
Damage: 75
Poison: 1 s (84 damage)
Radius: 240
Duration: 20 s

Skill Recharge Description

Withering Plague Add bleeding to your plague.

Plague of Darkness Add blindness to your plague.

Plague of Pestilence Add cripple and weakness to your plague.

HUGE AOE too! as big as any other!. when a thief turns into grenth for the chilling/poison. it lasts 2 secs and u have to be super close like 130 range(dagger range)

oh and thief is 280 recharge for a skill 1/3rd as strong and necro is 180 for 3x stronger. :P

Necros definitely have tons of HP and tankability…

My necro has like 38K hp in plague form.

Thieves cannot burst a necro in 1-2s unless that necro is a glass cannon build, which is rare for a necro.

ty swinks. its just a few players come on here bc they are new to game or have a high risk build in wvw/spvp. thieves are good at killing high risk builds but also have higher risk against those builds and almost as much if not HIGHER risk against defensive bunker builds! its lose lose for thief unless they get their burst off. thief is for the talented player. if you are not talented and quick fingered/reaction time then you will enver be good at thief. even then its still alot of dying if ur really getting into a fight.

Travlane.5948:

HUGE AOE too! as big as any other!. when a thief turns into grenth for the chilling/poison. it lasts 2 secs and u have to be super close like 130 range(dagger range)

oh and thief is 280 recharge for a skill 1/3rd as strong and necro is 180 for 3x stronger. :P

There is no skill in the game with a cooldown longer than 240, and you are referring to a Human racial elite rather than a Thief elite, which also comes with the fact that all of the racial elites are designed to not be very good.
So… what ARE you talking about?

i know the human is a racial. that said its still VERY similar. even if they didnt chagne how strong it was. atleast could change the radius. but the original point was that necros can be beef cakes/tanks and do it as one of the best! and yes 240 my bad but splitting hairs now. point is its alot lower than most of the other bests in game.

Moira Dryade.6498:

1. Well of darkness is useless as long as I don’t see a thief comming in stealth.
Well of darkness is useless because of the epic recast and duration.
Well of darkness is useless because normaly you don’t sit there in a well and wait for thiefs (not to mention that this is impossible) but you walk over the map. Even if it’s just from the spawn whereever towards.

2. I have 30 points in vita, 20 in armor. No “glassy death shroud crit build” found.

3. Good question. Maybe because thiefs ARE JUST OP????????

LMAO

What an idiot.

no thieves die in zerg fighting which is EVERYTHING in wvw. 1 v 1 is stupid. but if u must see a necro fight 1 v 1 …. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZS7oykd31MA there ya go bud. and WoD is amazing. u avhe a zerg of 60 and 6 of them are necros spreading out a few WoD’s then thats devastating to the ENTIRE ENEMY ZERG’S MELEE FORCE. get real. 60 secs is PERFECT for WoD. its not a 1 v1 skill perhaps but niether are many other skills like cluster bomb. its more for zergs. L2P. fail. and what kind of a troglodyte necro waits in a well all day. LOL FAIL!

Travlane.5948:

even if necros just use swarm elite…that is so devastating in spvp and so much extra hp….like double or more i heard. just the elite alone is great and also all the blinds …ice….dmg… poison etc. necros and do much more in SPVP than thieves.

It’s more than that – Plague doubles your base power, QUADRUPLES your base Toughness and TRIPLES your base Vitality. At 80, that’s 916 power, 2748 toughness, and 1832 vitality.

Auesis.7301:

It’s more than that – Plague doubles your base power, QUADRUPLES your base Toughness and TRIPLES your base Vitality. At 80, that’s 916 power, 2748 toughness, and 1832 vitality.

And leaves you completly open for conditions.

MrForz.1953:

Auesis.7301:

It’s more than that – Plague doubles your base power, QUADRUPLES your base Toughness and TRIPLES your base Vitality. At 80, that’s 916 power, 2748 toughness, and 1832 vitality.

And leaves you completly open for conditions.

Indeed it does. I fail to see how that has any relevance against a burst build, which was the topic of discussion.

MrForz.1953:

Auesis.7301:

It’s more than that – Plague doubles your base power, QUADRUPLES your base Toughness and TRIPLES your base Vitality. At 80, that’s 916 power, 2748 toughness, and 1832 vitality.

And leaves you completly open for conditions.

I wonder how you’ll ever mitigate that condition damage in plague form! Those blind spams and massive spike to health probably won’t do anything… not anything at all…

Auesis.7301:

Indeed it does. I fail to see how that has any relevance against a burst build, which was the topic of discussion.

Oh absolutely nothing, it’s just an often overlooked detail. You see, seeing how a Necromancer takes advantage of conditions in most of cases, nobody would actually try to send some annoying conditions like Chill or Immobilize during plague form when stuck with that mindset. You will get a Necromancer on the long run, I really don’t know where’s the problem if you can’t manage to burst it down.

Dasorine.1964:

And yet stealth is not a guarantee unlike other people mechanics so how can it be low risk when theres always the possibility someone will just kill you while your in it?

Speaking from a WvW perspective, it’s rather close. Getting owned? Stealth => run…99% chance of escape.

Sil.4560:

Dasorine.1964:

And yet stealth is not a guarantee unlike other people mechanics so how can it be low risk when theres always the possibility someone will just kill you while your in it?

Speaking from a WvW perspective, it’s rather close. Getting owned? Stealth => run…99% chance of escape.

agreed with what sil wrote. in a 1 v 1. but more like 80% in a zerg its like 5-10%. unless of course everyone is far off and arent close at all . yeah then its 99%. all circumstancial tho. even a warrior ahs a 99% chance if he sees a zerg comign at him.

I dunno man, thieves are pretty easy. They are usually so squishy they are one of the easier classes to fight. Even on my full zerker warrior I whirlwind attack once, and they go down mid skill. That is a beautiful skill though.

I honestly think its a L2 kitten ue Moira, but food for thought, if you have so much trouble on your necro among other classes with thieves, maybe its not the thief but the Necro which isn’t suited to counter the thief? (though to be honest, I can’t see why it wouldn’t be with Death Shroud, all that HP which is a direct counter to burst, and all that CC. Thieves only have 1 access to stability, their Elite Dagger Storm.) Baring these in mind, it should be easy to just see a thief coming and plant a well with Chill or, mark etc.

but anyway, the only class I have trouble with is those kitten mesmers >:(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=zCUvIrH2BlU#t=3514s
According to this Thieves will always be revealed when coming out of stealth. Been gone for a while but has this taken effect yet?
Thanks.

Causic.3798:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=zCUvIrH2BlU#t=3514s
According to this Thieves will always be revealed when coming out of stealth. Been gone for a while but has this taken effect yet?
Thanks.

No they decided to increase Revealed to 4s instead.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Causic.3798:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=zCUvIrH2BlU#t=3514s
According to this Thieves will always be revealed when coming out of stealth. Been gone for a while but has this taken effect yet?
Thanks.

No they decided to increase Revealed to 4s instead.

Oh ok thanks.

and now going back down to 3 secs. they over did themselves bc they compensated for the lag loss

Travlane.5948:

and now going back down to 3 secs. they over did themselves bc they compensated for the lag loss

Good to note, thanks for the info =)

Yeah, I think they analysed culling as being the issue in the end.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

I consider things like “hundred nades bug” to be OP, where a single attack dos 26k damage in an AOE.

/sigh that photoshopped picture keeps on making the rounds doesn’t it?

There was actually a super awesome video of it in WvW, where I watched a single engi take out a group of guardians and warriors by jumping into the middle of them, lol. I looked for the video, but this is all I could find. I feel it’s good enough to represent it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gXAliTpRwk

There’s really not much difference between what that engineer was doing & what thieves do.

Dev can easily deal with thiefs on ranger

To all those who say thieves are OP, please roll one!!!!!!!

If you make it past level 30 without getting frustrated by the number of times you died, I’ll clap for you! If you think dungeons/fractals are easy at 80, I’ll salute you. If you think pvp in general is as simple as 1, 2 ,3…. I’ll Bow to you!

Cheers!

Azraeel.1238:

To all those who say thieves are OP, please roll one!!!!!!!

If you make it past level 30 without getting frustrated by the number of times you died, I’ll clap for you! If you think dungeons/fractals are easy at 80, I’ll salute you. If you think pvp in general is as simple as 1, 2 ,3…. I’ll Bow to you!

Cheers!

I did. They are ridiculous in WvW. It’s as you said, ‘simple as 1,2,3’!

Wait, I mean 5-2-1.

Edit: I don’t mean that I steamroll every roamer I come across because that would just be ridiculous. Obviously there are some builds which will not lose to me, such as bunker D/D elementalists.

However in WvW there is no penalty to running away, so I never die. Just don’t over-commit and you don’t have to die either. We have so many ways to run away that roaming is almost completely risk-free.

Really disappointing to see the response from the devs in this regard. I don’t necessarily care that 100nades was nerfed. But it’s clear as a bell they never tried to execute it, merely got caught on the receiving end of it.

And a good Sword and Dagger thief will destroy Robert Hrouda on his ranger any day. Good thing you don’t fight good S/D thieves eh?

Sunflowers.1729:

Azraeel.1238:

To all those who say thieves are OP, please roll one!!!!!!!

If you make it past level 30 without getting frustrated by the number of times you died, I’ll clap for you! If you think dungeons/fractals are easy at 80, I’ll salute you. If you think pvp in general is as simple as 1, 2 ,3…. I’ll Bow to you!

Cheers!

I did. They are ridiculous in WvW. It’s as you said, ‘simple as 1,2,3’!

Wait, I mean 5-2-1.

Edit: I don’t mean that I steamroll every roamer I come across because that would just be ridiculous. Obviously there are some builds which will not lose to me, such as bunker D/D elementalists.

However in WvW there is no penalty to running away, so I never die. Just don’t over-commit and you don’t have to die either. We have so many ways to run away that roaming is almost completely risk-free.

Oh for God sake, Dude, are you trying to be smart? You just mentioned us using 3 attacks out of 5, hurray!!! In fact, 4 and 3 are very good situational skills. The 4 will make your life easier if the guy was running away (instead of chain HS when everything else is on cooldown), and the 3 would get you out of tight situations if you were out of dodge and revealed.

Moreover, you forgot about all of the combos you could do with D/D and other weapon sets. Even if you execute them perfectly, you have a HUGE chance to mess up. For example, just missing a CnD or getting blocked costs us 6 initiatives.

Since you totally skipped the pve part (leveling/dungeons/fractals), I’ll assume you found those tough. Which leaves WvW? Just because we can slip away, doesn’t makes us OP, nor ridiculously easy to play. All it takes is one mistake and you are done for. I can’t count the times where I got pulled out of my shadows refuge then instantly immobilized to be burst down by someone else.

Azraeel.1238:

Sunflowers.1729:

Azraeel.1238:

To all those who say thieves are OP, please roll one!!!!!!!

If you make it past level 30 without getting frustrated by the number of times you died, I’ll clap for you! If you think dungeons/fractals are easy at 80, I’ll salute you. If you think pvp in general is as simple as 1, 2 ,3…. I’ll Bow to you!

Cheers!

I did. They are ridiculous in WvW. It’s as you said, ‘simple as 1,2,3’!

Wait, I mean 5-2-1.

Edit: I don’t mean that I steamroll every roamer I come across because that would just be ridiculous. Obviously there are some builds which will not lose to me, such as bunker D/D elementalists.

However in WvW there is no penalty to running away, so I never die. Just don’t over-commit and you don’t have to die either. We have so many ways to run away that roaming is almost completely risk-free.

Oh for God sake, Dude, are you trying to be smart? You just mentioned us using 3 attacks out of 5, hurray!!! In fact, 4 and 3 are very good situational skills. The 4 will make your life easier if the guy was running away (instead of chain HS when everything else is on cooldown), and the 3 would get you out of tight situations if you were out of dodge and revealed.

Moreover, you forgot about all of the combos you could do with D/D and other weapon sets. Even if you execute them perfectly, you have a HUGE chance to mess up. For example, just missing a CnD or getting blocked costs us 6 initiatives.

Since you totally skipped the pve part (leveling/dungeons/fractals), I’ll assume you found those tough. Which leaves WvW? Just because we can slip away, doesn’t makes us OP, nor ridiculously easy to play. All it takes is one mistake and you are done for. I can’t count the times where I got pulled out of my shadows refuge then instantly immobilized to be burst down by someone else.

first of, gratz that you’ve seem to get the point and but somehow still miss it
nobodies argues that the thief in pve is underpowerred, in pve they need a buff and are just more pain to play compared to other classes
same goes for spvp where stealth doesn’t grant you the way to an easy win
but everybody speaks about wvw
wvw is the place where the thief is considered op, easy mode, no risk high reward, makes every other class obsolete in roaming, whatever you want

you simply overexagerrate and or have a l2play issue, you don’t have such a HUGE chance to mess up it DOES NOT TAKE ONE SINGLE mistake and you’re done for, for that the thief has a to much ways to disengage and reset the fight
just the other day i messed up a in 1on1 against a mesmer, backstab missed by hitting a bypassing clone not him and such, did waste initiative while still having revealed and such, just didnt play focused enough (3 in the morning) more then one mistake, who cares? i just reseted the fight engaged again and the fight was over in a few skills
of course there are some builds and player combination where you don’t get the freekill, but you can notice those matchups fast enough and just walk away, no loot for either of you
but even so, those are rare matchups and after all we speak about wvw where the battle environment changes quickly and most people lack solid pvp experience

its just an example, even if you mess up it has less harsh consequences compared to other classes who if they do mess up faces risk of dying, especially if i would wear the same offensive equipment like on my thief (edit3 wanted to add that i feel much safer on a thief near a superior number of players than on any other of my classes, even in a zerg its not that hard to mess up, just refrain from headless spamming, skirmish around the zerg is the most fun)

compare how often shadow refuge worked an how often it did not, its still one of the best if not the best escape tool ingame in rvr, besides its not your only tool, maybe you used shadowstep prematurely which i assume you have on your bar as a d/d

i cant remember being pulled out of shadow refuge by a just single person which lead to me being dead afterwards, its sound more like you’ve been pulled out of shadow refuge against superior numbers in which case most other classes wouldn’t even have the chance of escape, and even then in those cases shadow step can easily save you

with a little map awareness, so you won’t be suprised by some burst, and some restrain, so you do not overextend, you do not die in wvw as a thief, and IT IS EASY to pull off
make it really fun and group up with some guildmates who also leveled up a thief just to abuse him in rvr and see the difference of night and day in wvw and feel free to do whatever you want in wvw

/edit
i admit i play the thief only a quarter to third of my rvr time, so flame me, not that i don’t expect any different in general,
/edit2
to summarize: seemingly unlike you, i feel op on my thief (of course in wvw)

Azraeel.1238:

Sunflowers.1729:

Azraeel.1238:

To all those who say thieves are OP, please roll one!!!!!!!

If you make it past level 30 without getting frustrated by the number of times you died, I’ll clap for you! If you think dungeons/fractals are easy at 80, I’ll salute you. If you think pvp in general is as simple as 1, 2 ,3…. I’ll Bow to you!

Cheers!

I did. They are ridiculous in WvW. It’s as you said, ‘simple as 1,2,3’!

Wait, I mean 5-2-1.

Edit: I don’t mean that I steamroll every roamer I come across because that would just be ridiculous. Obviously there are some builds which will not lose to me, such as bunker D/D elementalists.

However in WvW there is no penalty to running away, so I never die. Just don’t over-commit and you don’t have to die either. We have so many ways to run away that roaming is almost completely risk-free.

Oh for God sake, Dude, are you trying to be smart? You just mentioned us using 3 attacks out of 5, hurray!!! In fact, 4 and 3 are very good situational skills. The 4 will make your life easier if the guy was running away (instead of chain HS when everything else is on cooldown), and the 3 would get you out of tight situations if you were out of dodge and revealed.

Moreover, you forgot about all of the combos you could do with D/D and other weapon sets. Even if you execute them perfectly, you have a HUGE chance to mess up. For example, just missing a CnD or getting blocked costs us 6 initiatives.

Since you totally skipped the pve part (leveling/dungeons/fractals), I’ll assume you found those tough. Which leaves WvW? Just because we can slip away, doesn’t makes us OP, nor ridiculously easy to play. All it takes is one mistake and you are done for. I can’t count the times where I got pulled out of my shadows refuge then instantly immobilized to be burst down by someone else.

Did I say that Thieves are good at PvE? Does being bad doing dungeons mean that Thieves are bad at WvWing? For the record, I don’t like to sPvP so no comment there.

“All it takes is one mistake and you are done for” – This is exaggeration (as the poster above me said). I make so many mistakes when playing (e.g. trying BP+HS combo with too little initiative, using HiS when revealed.etc) and still die very little.

Of course, the D/P build is very easy to play. There is no doubt that a S/D Thief is much harder to use effectively, but my point is that with at least one weapon set, combat really is as simple as pressing 5-2-1 repeatedly.

Is that the only thing I do? Obviously not – there are so many fancy things that can be done, but the basic 5-2-1 combo is both effective and easy to pull off, as well as being hard to counter.

@Griswold, you might have gave a bad example with the “messed up” point. I don’t have issues killing mesmers in WvW, so many clones to keep you stealthed, and missing one Backstab is not like missing a CnD. Because by the time you get revealed you already have recovered few Initiatives from the CnD done earlier. ANYWAYS, your definition of ….OP…. is staying alive the most, where as my definition of OP is the ability to counter all other classes, no matter what their build was, using a single build. Which, you clearly proved otherwise.

@Sunflowers, where did you say that Thieves are good at PvE? EXACTLY!!!! You didn’t! This means that this class is only good at one content, the rest, you end up struggling with. Thieves are good at roaming? Yay! Let’s discredit everything else! And only grade the system according to this, and only this!

Back to my main point, I like to take classes in general, not specific, and grade them accordingly. GW2 is not only about roaming. Heck, you get much more tokens by joining zergs than actually roaming alone. Roaming alone is fun, but doesn’t even stand out to call a class OP.

EDIT: Fixed some filter messing up paragraph.

@ Griswold

So what you say is that the profession that was designed be unparalleled in roaming, escaping and burst – is in fact exactly what it was designed for? Holy kitten that’s OP….

We can reset fights, run away, slip away from most situations and so on, but that’s pretty much all we can do. We’re useless in all other parts of the game (unless you actually take some time to learn the class in more depth), so it’s completely unfair that we can do that, right… What thieves usually do in WvW is trolling unorganized and bad Zergs, killing the weak link, baddies and up leveled characters. We may also scout and run supplies, but that is about as deep as it gets. Yay.

Azraeel.1238:

Even if you execute them perfectly, you have a HUGE chance to mess up. For example, just missing a CnD or getting blocked costs us 6 initiatives.

Blocks and evades and misses are something that every class has to deal when using their staple abilities during a fight. When that happens, EVERY class has to adjust to the loss of momentum at that point. Do you have any idea how many times most classes waste their abilities on a thief’s evades and blinds? Lets not forget the thief is one of the best classes in the game with resetting fights when this happens.

Azraeel.1238:

Since you totally skipped the pve part (leveling/dungeons/fractals), I’ll assume you found those tough.

I can’t comment on dungeons and fractals as I don’t find those very fun and don’t do them on my mains. But for leveling, I’ve not had an easier time than I have had with my thief so far at level 40ish. As with any class, there are certain builds that shine for PvE questing/leveling over others — thief is no different. The thief is the first class I’ve been able to do my storyline quest when I’m 2+ levels lower than it. I’ve been able to do that over and over consistently. With other classes I usually wait until I’m a few levels above my storyline.

All I heard before I even rolled a thief was they were tough to level. It was a pleasant surprise for me to discover how ridiculously easy they are to level. The only downside was because I heard that mantra so much from the thief community, it obviously makes me skeptical of most of the other doom and gloom statements made by the same folks.

Azraeel.1238:

Which leaves WvW? Just because we can slip away, doesn’t makes us OP, nor ridiculously easy to play. All it takes is one mistake and you are done for. I can’t count the times where I got pulled out of my shadows refuge then instantly immobilized to be burst down by someone else.

There’s no way we could accurately measure this, but I’d bet you that most players who actively WvW have done more “homework” on how to fight a thief more than any other class. That ability that kicked you out of refuge? I bet you they have that on their bar purely FOR shadow refuge. I know for me, no matter what character I’m playing, I’m going to have at least a trait, skill, or ability specifically set for fighting a thief. I gear/trait my character with a thief’s burst in the back of my mind. I equip at least one skill for shadow refuge luck shots. I make no other considerations for any other class specifically like I do for a thief. And I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one that does that. Why is that? Because for a class that you claim is so unforgiving for a mistake…. there are thieves EVERYWHERE in WvW. No other class I fight more on a consistent basis in WvW than I do thieves.

Given my experience in PvP in about a dozen other MMOs when I see a class that’s played the most in a mode of play it’s not because it’s “unforgiving” — it’s because it’s the strongest in that particular mode of play.

@BrimstoneAshe, it is true that every class has to deal with block and evade, however, not every class share “cooldowns” with their other weapon set. When it comes to thieves, if you miss or waste initiatives, you have to either retreat, or autoattack.

As for the rest, please finish leveling your thief then share what you think of the class. I’m nowhere near the doom and gloom, I was trying to make a point (read my last post), people replies dragged the discussion somewhere else.

Cheers!

I have no idea where this notion of preparation comes from to specifically face a Thief. My Guardian almost always uses a Shield, so if I happen to come across a Thief who attempts to hide, SoA will send him flying out of it. My Mesmer always has a Greatsword, because Greatsword is awesome on Mesmer, so if I happen to come across a Thief who tries to hide, IW also sends him flying out of it. I also use Focus for walls of keeps and various other utilities, but I didn’t have ITV specifically for SR – it just happens to be useful against it. I don’t have those weapons because Thieves exist. I have them because they’re good weapons for those classes.

I would be rather surprised if someone legitimately pre-plans their entire setup for Thieves and Thieves alone. A good majority of skills that are effective against Thieves are almost always some of the best skills to have regardless of the situation.