Guild Wars 2

ok i recently decided to try thief for spvp to gain more knowledge about them. my main is a ranger and i kitten hard in spvp constantly getting top score in hotjoin.

my problem is, thief seems to suck. i’ve done 40 matches now in a dd/sb dps build and i just can’t seem to get kills like on my ranger. ranger has better healing, more aoe from traps, more dps, toughness, and a quickened stomp. my thief seems to always be targeted, and the stealth skills allow me to escape, but im not getting kills. cluster bomb for aoe is ok and tags fairly well, but in the heat of a center brawl i just can’t last enough to get kills.

now i’ve seen thieves totally kitten face in matches constantly scorign 250+ and im just perplexed on how they do it, what is thier method? go for capping picking off stragglers on the way, stealthing out of engagments when outnumbered? sticking with the zerg and finishing off targets in the middle of melee? staying on the edge and trying not to be noticed using cluster bomb and dagger to stealth retreat, or go for the finish?

i’ve looked at a few vids, but can’t really find one with a good explanation of basic thief point scoring in spvp.

any help would be appreciated. btw, im rank 30 and have 400matches on ranger vs 40 on thief, so mabye i just need more practice.

25/30/0/015 eagle runes, bloodlust/blood on daggers, bloodlust on sb. knights amulet with rampager jewel is what i’ve used mostly.

ps. im constantly missing with skill 5 and wasting init

been doing more matches this morning, and getting higher points, top score a few times simply by going point capping taking advantage to finish ppl along the way or join winning battles…

still rarely getting over 200

Good thieves can easily rack up a lot of points however, we don’t have AoE so it’s harder. Try playing less glass cannon might help.

x/30/30/x/x and D/P is what I find the best set up.

Thief is my main and I have tried mostly every build for him except the venom share build. For sPvP (r30 as well) my main source of glory and score is to cap the points. Since thieves have very good mobility such as 5 skill on SB, swiftness on evade, shadow step, 2 skill on sword, utility where you stealth teleport to the trap…and so on, ninja capping is very easy. As far as your build goes try a tankier approach such as a condition build. If what you are comfortable with what you use now than that’s fine too. I recommend after every 3-5 games or so check back on your build and adjust what you don’t use and maybe need based on your play style.

As for the CnD skill, it has a 0.5 sec cast time so it doesn’t hurt to activate it before your in melee range (to an extent).

The SB for me personally is an escape tool since my build is based on my P/D setup.

If your losing init. fast, try using the traits that give 2 every 10 sec, 2 for a skill that stealths you, 3 on steal, 3 extra init (might be 5 I forget), the utility that gives 1 every 10sec.

I’m glad the OP posted this. I was going to come online this am and post the same thing. I’ve played the most games with Ranger I think (over 200 I’m sure, but I haven’t checked in a while), guardian/thief/mesmer a close 2nd (100ish each). With Ranger I’ve become pretty effective with a trap build and really like it. Like the OP said — I seem to have unreal survivability and I hold up really well, even in 2 v 1 situations.

I too wanted go to thief because I really wanted to be better at it. I played probably (guessing) 80 games as a glass cannon build and I just couldn’t get comfortable with it. I was getting hammered a lot. Sometimes I’d have a good kill, but many times people would take my initial burst and then I’d be screwed.
I switched to a p/d build (wild bill style) and was overall more effective than glass cannon — but I’d still get crushed if focused. I just don’t seem to have the survivability i’d like. I was playing that build without any kind of stun breaker, so that didn’t help (although I do the same on my ranger, and still am really effective).

Basically — ditto what the OP said. Keep the responses coming. I’d really like to get better, but so far it’s less enjoyable of a learning curve for me than ranger/guardian/mesmer all were.

Haha well I played a spvp hot join earlier and this was the result. I know my team was mostly skilled players because of their lvl AND that they were theives as well. But I was doing well otherwise I’d switch rooms.

I prefer D/P, as all the weapon skills on it are useful in pretty much every fight. Shadow shot recently got buffed and works great, Headshot is amazing for interrupting heals, and Black Powder can completely shut down melee classes, as well as give you a free opening into stealth via Heartseeker.

Don’t spec full glass cannon (in hot join) unless you really enjoy blowing up noobs every 40 seconds or so, and then having to run for the hills.

Make sure you take plenty of Shadow Arts. Our most important traits are in this line, and make you a much better skirmisher rather than a plain spiker, even when running zerker jewels. I personally use 30 SA on every build that I make, it’s that crucial to me. Good traits: Infusion of Shadow (a must with D/P), Shadow’s Embrace, Cloaked In Shadow, Shadow Protector, Shadow’s Rejuv. The master tier trait is one your will likely struggle with the most, just pick the one that suits the enemies you encounter the best.

D/D Thief’s role in PvP is to be so that whenever anyone on the other team goes below 75% health, they have to be on the watch out for thief since thief can insta-gib that player. It changes the dynamic of a fight completely.

For Hot Join, full-burst thief isn’t as good for tagging and scoring points. Since most fights are zerg-fests, having that high of a dmg output doesn’t do much since you have more than enough other sources of damage with you. Reduce damage, increase utility, mobility and sustainability if all you want to play is hot join. However, if you want to play correctly, it’s better to just do 1v1 tourny queues, even if the map is ele/guardian haven.

ryokoalways.3450:

D/D Thief’s role in PvP is to be so that whenever anyone on the other team goes below 75% health, they have to be on the watch out for thief since thief can insta-gib that player. It changes the dynamic of a fight completely.

For Hot Join, full-burst thief isn’t as good for tagging and scoring points. Since most fights are zerg-fests, having that high of a dmg output doesn’t do much since you have more than enough other sources of damage with you. Reduce damage, increase utility, mobility and sustainability if all you want to play is hot join. However, if you want to play correctly, it’s better to just do 1v1 tourny queues, even if the map is ele/guardian haven.

I think you’re right on. Part of my issue is I don’t want to “get to know” a class in tournaments because I don’t want to be a detriment to my team so I play with things in hotjoin. That being said, hotjoin isn’t necessarily the best representation of that class’s abilities in tournament play. fingers crossed for a dueling system at some point.

My 2 cents as a high-ish rank tourney thief about 2 highly effective builds. Some of this might not be as effective in zergy 8v8s, which I try to avoid playing, but they can work. This is also more of a how to play these builds than how to rack up big point totals. Points come from a combo of playing well, playing smart, and map awareness / decision making.

1. D/D thief is typically a very standard, popular burst playstyle, but you really have to go all out on glass cannon and play smart with your shortbow to rack up the kills without going down yourself.

Very typical burst D/D build: http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-c33V;1Rwk0-J5N-Fd0;9;4OT;0E28-29A;44;0IRV4;2G3G3G3G35BH

The opener is typically basilisk venom + assassin’s signet, then CnD immediately followed by steal/mug. You will actually shadowstep to your target before landing CnD despite using steal second. Then backstab, and finish with some autoattacks and HS. I don’t tend to HS right after the BS because most people immediately dodge when the basilisk ends. Wait for them to burn those dodges.

Most decent players will see this coming from a mile away if you run in at the start with basilisk up, so I like to SB to start the fight. When I heal back up, I switch to D/D, pop the utils and elite, then burst out of the stealth. This works well against pretty much anyone in hot join.

When you aren’t bursting you should almost always be using SB. Keep your distance and don’t wade into big fights. You will be downed immediately. If you are 1v1 on an enemy point, don’t feel like you need to fight on the point. Use the poison field if you are anticipating a heal, use clusterbomb if you have extra ini, and make judicious use of the SB evade. If you are in a losing situation don’t be afraid to IA away and go contest a lesser defended point.

Battle and map awareness are the key to getting those big point totals you see. Blindly charging into a fight just gets you killed.

2. There is a lesser used P/D condi stealth heal build that is extremely resilient and great at assaulting points, but I find it a bit more boring than roaming burst and it can’t hold a point by itself. It’s pretty easy to play. Give it a shot if you want more survivability and prefer to play in the thick of things.

Build: http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-cR3V;1ZwFb0O5wOkd0;9;6TJJ;434A59-27-KNm6;2jwmAjwmA2VP

Keep the caltrops and ambush up at all times, use thieves guild if you need the help. Dagger storm is probably preferable in 8v8s, but not as effective in 5v5 or tourney. RfI is your stun break. Otherwise, almost the entirety of your damage comes from landing CnD and then racking up bleeds with the MH pistol stealth 1. Stay in stealth as long as possible for heals and condi removal. I like to count 4 heal ticks before I use the burst. If you’re really hurting you can just skip the burst and immediately CnD again for more stealth time. This will wear down anyone, including most bunkers, except a heavy condi removal spec.

The SB in this build is mostly used for mobility between points and to escape fights going sour. It’s also decent to open up with for poison and then immediately switch over to P/D.

Just note this build is not very effective in the new spirit watch map, especially in tourney. It works great in all the old maps though.

Thanks Revyri. I’ll switch around my P/d build a bit and go more toward yours. I don’t use the same utilities. One question is — would you go with nightmare over undead? I used undead on my condition trap ranger, then switched it out to Nightmare. the loss in total condition damage and toughness didn’t seem to be a big deal to me — and I loved the duration. Would that work here?

I might try that.
Plus, I wasn’t using CnD to it’s full effectiveness when I was first learning the burst build. I’ll probably try both agian. : ) thx again