Guild Wars 2

Hi
Im currently rolling a thief and i wanted to know how do they fair in terms of PvE?
Do they have a hard time killing veteran mobs, bosses and groups of mobs compared to other classes? Does it take alot of skill to take down bosses and how is their survivability?

Im asking this because thiefs are mostly a PvP class and I don’t know if they would be a good PvE class to level.

Any insight on this would be appreciated.
Thank You

I recently leveled my thief to 78 within the last week. I can say, compared to my mesmer and ranger, that it has perhaps been a bit more troublesome, not due to a lack of damage but due to lack of toughness/vitality. It is not significantly harder though, there are some advantages; for example, many of the skillpoints you can avoid the veteran mob battles through using shadow refuge. I think 1v1 PvE is really easy but once the mobs stack to 4+ mobs it can become a bit overwhelming if you’re not used to the mechanics

A condition/tank build with lots of vitality is pretty decent, however thieves will always been inferior to just about all classes in PvE.

Thieves are certainly mediocre in PvE due to survivability issues, but certain skills and traits make a dramatic difference, such as Caltrops.

We are super squishy. It takes a lot more effort to stay alive, and we have to give up substantial offense to increase our passive survivability. With that said, we aren’t worthless, it just takes more skill to properly play a Thief in PVE over other professions. We can certainly put out good numbers, and we have some strong support abilities, it just takes more effort for us to stay alive.

Playin’ a Thief in PvE is excitin’ an’ challengin’ an’ fun as burnin’ hell. Thing is, ya can’t go autopilot very much with Thieves like ya can in some other classes – we’re made slippery for ah reason – we can’ stand up ta allota abuse. But if yer on top of yer character, got a build what ya like, and think when yer fightin’ an’ pickin’ equipment, it’s very rewardin’.

Veterans are nothin’ ta a mid+ level thief – early levels you’ll spend allota time kiting an’ not takin’ hits … but we can do that. Bosses are hit’n miss – some are easy as fallin’ on yer face, others not so much. TakaEagle’s right, if ya ain’ got yer class down, then takin’ groups bigger’n 4 will be very very hard …. once ya do, it’ll be heart racin’ fun. A thief made proper can get 5-6 dodges easy an’ Glass Cannon’s can’ take allota damage, but ya don’ need ta when yer killin’ creatures faster than they can hit ya.

At low levels Steal will seem pretty underwhelmin’, but once ya can start puttin’ some traits inta it, an’ work it inta yer attack plans, it’ll be a game changer. Initiative is allot different than cooldowns; yeah it means ya can spam low level powers, (bleh) but if ya aren’ careful in how ya spend it, basically all yer powers are on cooldown until it recharges enough.

Big thing: don’t try takin’ hits, yer not a fighter an’ ya aren’ meant ta be – use yer strengths.

The downside to having mobility as a primary defensive mechanism is that you can’t afford to take as many hits as some professions, nor do you really want to stack a bunch of defensive stats.

The upside to having mobility as a primary defensive mechanism is that once you learn to avoid most incoming damage you can stack offense a lot heavier than most professions dare to in PvE, meaning you end fights quicker and farm faster.

Thief does fine in pve with some defensive stats and decent dodging skills. Stack some vit at least, if nothing else. If you plan to melee toughness is important, too. Thieves with a shortbow can spam 5 blast finishers in a row and with decent ini return can just keep stacking aoe combo finishers. I would almost always have sword in the other weapon set for condition removal unless I know conditions were not an issue (some boss fights its more important to stay ranged and double pistol is probably a bit more useful than bow in those fights).

Look to take skills that weaken/debuff mobs (Caltrops is wonderful for this, as is the 10pt. Acrobatics skill that pops MORE caltrops when you dodge). Signet of Malice in our heal slot works well with Caltrops since they proc the signet as attackers walk over them, providing a nice stream of passive healing. We are indeed squishy, but we can mitigate that quite a bit by weakening the mobs so they don’t hit us as hard.

I’m only lvl 25 right now, and my gear is certainly nothing to write home about, but I can easily take on 3-5 PvE mobs simultaneously in a pinch by unloading Caltrops in the middle of them, then using smart attacks and skills. I like Sword/Dagger because I can hit multiple foes with the basic autoattack and spike with Dancing Dagger (bounces between packed-together mobs for big damage). Remember that Signet of Malice is healing you as you hit, so you might actually find yourself rounding up multiple mobs so you can group-thump them. It’s fun!

Pistol/Pistol is a good backup to S/D as its good for those very tough solo mobs like Veterans, especially the Warrior ones that hit like a ton of bricks. With out mobility, it’s pretty easy to dodge around big boss attacks (dropping debuffing/healing caltrops all the while) while circle-strafing for constant ranged damage. Again… fun.

Thief is definitely all about smart timing and positioning and it CAN be frustrating when you get hit hard for a huge chunk of your health, I agree, but I love mine so far in PvE and I hoe you will, too. Good luck!

ImagoX.4718:

Acrobatics skill that pops MORE caltrops when you dodge)
…
spike with Dancing Dagger (bounces between packed-together mobs for big damage)

The trait is Uncatchable, Trickery Trait III, but you’re right about how awesome it is.

I wouldn’t rely on Dancing Dagger for spike post-nerf.

Tulisin.6945:

ImagoX.4718:

Acrobatics skill that pops MORE caltrops when you dodge)
…
spike with Dancing Dagger (bounces between packed-together mobs for big damage)

The trait is Uncatchable, Trickery Trait III, but you’re right about how awesome it is.

I wouldn’t rely on Dancing Dagger for spike post-nerf.

Sorry, you’re right… my bad. Thanks for the catch. And I do’t know what Dancing Dagger did pre-nerf, but it’s still a major part of my DPS – not only does it bounce around (4 targets max, meaning the more mobs around you the more damage it does, all the while firing Signet of Malice), but the output isn’t bad. You can quick-fire 2 in a row with full Init. Of course, it also Cripples, so even on single targets I usually fire one in as I gap close. If it’s weaker now then it must have indeed been close to OP pre-nerf.

I was just about to post a topic asking if I understood the thief in PvE, and after looking at the replies, I think I do. I wanted my third alt to be a thief, but I was having trouble coming up with a fun solo leveling build. Let’s face it, you need to be able to take on a bunch of NPCs at once, including veterans, when solo leveling. Coming from an engineer and necro, that’s straight-forward. From what I can tell, thieves have 4 primary options for doing this:

1) Kite and cluster bomb
2) Sword/Pistol for perma-blind
3) Caltrops and Death Blossom
4) Jump in and out of stealth

While trying all these out, I came across personal observations for each:

1 & 2) these are boring
3) initiative issues early on, conditions tend to be rather poor at tagging mobs in group events for loot, a single mistake is frequently fatal
4) though this is a lot of fun and fits my playstyle, fights take rather longer, it’s tough to do enough damage to multiple mobs in group events to tag them for loot, initiative is an issue early on, and a single mistake is frequently fatal

Do I have this right? If so, perhaps thief is not for me.

Being a thief involves dodging and quick reactions. But not, like, always. You can totally go into easy mode if you’re not feeling it (just not in WvW or dungeons).

The other day, I was running around Orr gathering some for my daily. I aggroed two Risen Abominations. Just after I put down Black Powder, someone said something in guild chat that made me pop up the guild screen — I was looking to see whether the folks who wanted to do Fractals had already started, IIRC. So I sat there skimming through the guild list while these Abominations were trying to kill me. When I closed the window, they were already lying dead at my feet.

Now, because of how criticals work, it’s totally possible that Black Powder would have expired before my enemies did. In that case, I’d be alerted to this fact by my health dropping like a rock and my character making that trademark sylvari squeak. But then all I’d need to do is hit Black Powder again, maybe throw in a stun break if I got hit with a knockdown, and go back to what I was doing.

I’d rank them behind Warriors and Guardians, but ahead of the other classes – I’d call them on par with Elementalists, but that’s a weird comparison because Thief is strong in places where Ele is weak, and vice versa.

They are a very strong solo class, with excellent mobility and the ability to burst mobs quickly. Their biggest weakness here is gear dependence; Thieves lack the base stats of the other melee classes and suffer the most from being under-geared, so while leveling up you have to build and trait for defense if you’re not frequently updating your gear. This, of course, goes away once you start equipping exotics.

In dungeons Thief is incredibly powerful but is reasonably group dependent to take advantage of that power. When paired with strong melee, particularly a hammer Guardian, the Thief is one of the best characters you can bring, delivering outstanding damage alongside decent team support. Without strong melee, you’ll be reduced to shooting bosses with a short bow, which won’t impress anyone.

For world zergs, Thief is decent but boring. Thief has the 2nd best ranged AoE damage after the Elementalist, which puts them in a great position to safely tag a bunch of mobs; unfortunately the short bow is slow, klunky, and basically involves spamming cluster arrow at short range to quickly tag mobs. The big Ele AoEs or other melee whirls are a whole lot more satisfying in this role.

On the whole, as far as PvE is concerned, the Thief is a decent enough character – it’s not a Warrior, but it’s certainly in a better place than most other classes.

I have zero problems with surivability. I use roll a ton…I also have 20 in vit and 20 in toughness. I can pretty much solo anywhere. There are times when I do need a helping hand but most of the time it’s not a problem.

Eviator.9746:

1 & 2) these are boring
3) initiative issues early on, conditions tend to be rather poor at tagging mobs in group events for loot, a single mistake is frequently fatal
4) though this is a lot of fun and fits my playstyle, fights take rather longer, it’s tough to do enough damage to multiple mobs in group events to tag them for loot, initiative is an issue early on, and a single mistake is frequently fatal

Do I have this right? If so, perhaps thief is not for me.

I was too stressed out managing Inititive at the lower levels to make D/D fun enough to stick with – it was STUPID fun, jumping around all over the place, but I ran out of Init. too easy, leading to the “one mistake = death” issue you mentioned. That said, I hear it’s much less of an issue when you’re Traited properly at higher level,but it still looks like a combo that has a single “optimal” way to play.

That’s why, as I said, I’m preferring S/D with P/P as a secondary, at least for now. It feels not only like it has enough utility that I can deal with various situations (ooops, I pulled 5 mobs when I only expected 2… good thing I have a plan for that), but it’s also FUN, at least for me. I can stick in close using S/D with dodges/caltrops for single mobs, unleash the full Caltrops skill if I get a big pull (then dodge away so I can switch to P/P), or just stay at range with pistols for boss fights, DE’s , etc.

Give it a try.

Currently I run with a complete Vatlaaw Armor set ( http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vatlaaw%27s_armor ) with full Superior Runes of the Centaur, 2 Carrion Pearl Carver daggers ( http://www.gw2db.com/items/56463-carrion-pearl-carver one with superior sigil of precision and one with a 10% chance of quickness on a crit) and run my skills like this: http://www.gw2build.com/builds/simulator.php#1.7.1.10.13.0.0.0.0.0.156.165.168.176.179.0.0.0.456.459.460.468.475.476.0.0.0.0.0.0.515.0.0.30.30.

I can handle 6-7 level 80 mobs at a time (including vets in the mix) fairly quickly, and have nearly no downtime to start again, and I’ve been known to take out 15 at a time with the use of dagger storm.

For bosses, I switch to P/P for the range and vulnerability skill.

I love the thief, the only thing is is that you may have to learn to evade more than any other class.

Just hit 28, but so far I can say that for me Thief has been much more effective than Ele for me in PvE… I’m using D/P and Shortbow.

Einlanzer.1627:

Thieves are certainly mediocre in PvE due to survivability issues, but certain skills and traits make a dramatic difference, such as Caltrops.

In terms of PvP it takes a very certain type of weapon set and trait allocation that’s for sure, however thiefs in PvE are not mediocre. The only time you ever find yourself in dire straits is when you build a glass cannon of end game content.

Specifically what I do is S/P, in early game content because I’nm built for late game I tend to suffer more then normal but when it comes to Arah, WvW and any lvl 70-80 zone I can easily get by and often out dps/out survive most others (bar wvw when S/P is best in a 5 man party out to gank as a immobilizer since #2 shadow steps, immobilizes and #3 dazes).

The problem with PvE and the thief is you can’t be original…you need to be boring, gimmicky and ultimately predictable in order to do any good,.

Am I the only one who thinks thief is ridiculously easy to play in PvE? Sure, there are lots of “gimmicky” things you can do, but that is really unnecessary.

Equip S/P or D/P. Find a mob (regular, vet, or even most champs), get in close, hit Black Powder and Caltrops for bleed, then just stand there and swing at it with AA until the blind wears. Then hit BP again and continue attacking. If you get bored you can finish it off with HS, but that is really just a waste of Initiative.

Got a large group of mobs, including ranged attackers? Get up close to one of the ranged attackers, pull all the rest of the mobs in close with you, and begin the BP cycle. Throw in a Dagger Storm and the whole group is down by the time it’s over. You will generally finish off the entire group, no matter the size, and take 0 damage. I generally have Sig of Malice on so that even if a hit or two somehow slips through, I am fully healed again after a second or two.

I have recently discovered the power of increasing Crit . I currently have about 42 Crit chance and boy does it increase damage a lot! I added the trait that gives you haste on a Crit and also a superior rune of fire and stuff dies crazy fast.

I basically run my thief like a Perma-Sin from GW1. 0 damage taken, high AoE damage dealt = extremely efficient PvE character. I usually end up tanking mobs when I play with a party because I aggro all the mobs to me and then hold them all in a circle while my pt destroys them, all the while takinkittenage and keeping the mobs from damaging my teammates as well.

Ok, I realize that this post is slightly arrogant, so I will end. But in response to the OP: yes, thief is an extremely easy and effective PvE class.

*Edit – lolspelling on iPad keyboard.