Guild Wars 2

FYI: If people don’t start explaining why I am wrong instead of just busting in and saying I am wrong, I will start requesting a decent amount moderator assistance and remake the thread. Post properly or don’t post at all. Thank you.

Getting real tired of people thinking that the Thief profession is, and has to be, the epitome of the Rogue archetype of MMOs. It is as though they believe that the core and design of the profession is tightly woven in the concept of stealthing and setting up backstabs.

And everyone wonders why this profession’s level of diversity is poor…. get a clue lol.

What sense does it make to think that adding a long-ranged DPS option to a profession entirely lacking one goes against the design of said profession?

For one thing, nothing says it does. Even the official description doesn’t specify that the thief is in anyway melee dominant. Secondly, since the offical description states “Experts at stealth and surprise” guess what having a rifle can do for the thief?

Which brings me to my other point: what difference will it make? To put it curtly, the difference is 1070.

But I believe that is what everyone is afraid of. That a thief can turn them into a puddle of bad safely from a cliff. Well… that’s what you get for not checking your surroundings, kinda like what countering Backstab (actually everything) usually requires.

The thing is, no, GW2 isn’t WoW or any other game with a Rogue-type class. The thief is a thief, not a Rogue with an addiction to implanting sharp objects into upper spines. S/he steals your wallet and kills you. There is no How. There is no What. The thief takes your wallet a/o your life. Nothing dictates that the thief HAS to be melee. Nowhere does it dictate that the thief HAS to be within melee distance to retain it’s image as the king of spike damage or that the design philosophy of the class dictates the thief HAS to be THE melee spiking class.

Whoever thought of that wanted the thief to remain cornered in its tiny d/x meta so once they finally figured out how to kill them they can exact revenge on all the thieves that killed them while they were pleasantly browsing the TP outside the keep. Unfortunately for that guy, those thieves are now turning him into puddles of bad on their alt wars and eles.

The Specializations in HoT are meant to open up roles for each profession in areas of combat professions currently do not exist in. With it comes a new weapon and modified class mechanic meant to allow professions to expand their repertoires. Guess what thieves absolutely cannot do right now?

That’s right! Long Ranged DPS (among other things).

S/P fulfills CC.
Ninja Nurse fulfills support.
P/D fulfills condition spam.
D/D fulfills melee DPS.
And while P/P and SB are able to do a decent amount the design of them make it difficult to attack with them at range effectively.

So if the specialization ends up being rifle…

yolo swaggins.2570:

…And everyone wonders why this profession’s level of diversity is poor…. get a clue lol.

What are you babbling about?!?

Some people thinking of thieves as rogue archetype has nothing to do with the professions lack of skill build diversity.

That stems from the fact that thieves ONLY have 3.5 land weapons to choose from.

The fact that ANet has not done anything to adjust their only ranged DPS weapon set (P/P) doesn’t help them either. There’s no need for rifle for the thief class because they have enough mobility to not NEED a 1200 ranged weapon. Only BAD players NEED that 1200 ranged weapon.

There’s a lot better things ANet can do with the class and its initiative system itself, while altering the steal system for specializations.

PS: P/D’s “condi spam” is laughable. Spamming a single condi will only win you fights against bad players.

Kurow.3076:

yolo swaggins.2570:

…And everyone wonders why this profession’s level of diversity is poor…. get a clue lol.

What are you babbling about?!?

Some people thinking of thieves as rogue archetype has nothing to do with the professions lack of skill build diversity.

That stems from the fact that thieves ONLY have 3.5 land weapons to choose from.

The fact that ANet has not done anything to adjust their only ranged DPS weapon set (P/P) doesn’t help them either. There’s no need for rifle for the thief class because they have enough mobility to not NEED a 1200 ranged weapon. Only BAD players NEED that 1200 ranged weapon.

There’s a lot better things ANet can do with the class and its initiative system itself, while altering the steal system for specializations.

PS: P/D’s “condi spam” is laughable. Spamming a single condi will only win you fights against bad players.

While the necessity of 1200 range is a matter of opinion, I’d wager that P/P hasn’t been changed for the fact that any change to it other than Unload would affect one of three other possible builds (P/D, D/P, S/P). It would be a lot easier to introduce a two handed DPS weapon (rifle or longbow) that they wouldn’t have to balance against all the other single handed weapons that thief has.

We’ll have to see what else the specialization brings besides a new weapon.

I don’t know, Kurow. Exactly what is considered “babbling” in this post? Maybe you should clarify what you are talking about before shoot everything down, eh?

It would also help your stance if you didn’t call players bad for wanting a 1200 ranged weapon while pushing the thief meta at the same time (Your snide post history is interesting to read btw).

Even if the meta is optional, the only people this applies to are those with enough skill to make due with w/e they want, bad player kinda NEED the meta or else they become rallybait. It is nice that you want to promote skill in this class, but at the same time there are things you need to understand.

Thief is lacking diversity. It has not gotten the buffs it needs in the areas it needs to help it get out of the glassy spike damage meta it has been stuck in for years. If the meta doesn’t move, if thief does not get the diversity it needs, the profession will eventually become crap.

Arguing that there is nothing wrong with the profession in any way screams “I want to break this class”. So I suggest thinking a little more on it.

If people absolutely can’t stand LB Rangers, I can barely imagine the toxicity of a Thief with a Rifle, especially if insisting on the “ranged stealth burst” part.

I wanted a melee staff…. There’s so much real-life martial arts that involved using a simple stick of wood.

But rifles will be very interesting. Sniping from a distance, look out rangers. I’m already grinning at all the possible PvP strategy for rifle thief…

Besides, for every “Blood-bath” rogue that pops up, I think this is a very good counter argument: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxUbKUr6LK4 GW2 Thieves are more like legit ninjas, vanishing and reappearing to just troll everyone and run away. Oh, and capture points/camps when no one is looking.

GW2 thieves are sneaky kittens…what kind of thief runs straight into a fight without first using some kind of underhanded tactic? Distance and mobility is as good as stealth, sometimes better.

MrForz.1953:

If people absolutely can’t stand LB Rangers, I can barely imagine the toxicity of a Thief with a Rifle, especially if insisting on the “ranged stealth burst” part.

There are always counters to everything dude you’ll find a way to beat them.

We already had that with warriors one shoting zerkers at max range, I dont think we need it again. It was a plague.

Mayama.1854:

We already had that with warriors one shoting zerkers at max range, I dont think we need it again. It was a plague.

Wut? People couldn’t dodge it?? Rifle war was OP??? The game doesn’t only have zerker,it’s only 1 stat combination out of many and the new specialisation is not called thief so whatever weapon they go with it will fit them.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Wall of nonsense!

Holy balls…nearly everything I said went right over your head. It’s like you read and comprehended only what you wanted to hear. That’s impressive!!!

Kurow.3076:

yolo swaggins.2570:

Wall of nonsense!

Holy balls…nearly everything I said went right over your head. It’s like you read and comprehended only what you wanted to hear. That’s impressive!!!

I’m awesome?
Thanks man, you too.

I would still want a great sword over rifle… and well.. revert the range nerf on the sb… make that cluster arrow 1200 range again (useful for shooting people up on the wall in WvW).

The thing is, just because it will have 1200 range, doesn’t mean that once engaged in a fight that there will be 1200 range between the thief and the target… The game play will probably be about the same as with the other ranged weapons…

And what maug said is probably true too… They kind of screwed themselves a little when they made skills be like that.

I don’t really get the purpose of the weapon, either, should it be what we end up with. Rifles are slow and clunky and the only fitting theme is a long-ranged burst damage dealer, which would just be over-powered it held any reasonable amount of damage or be wildly under-powered if it couldn’t kill quickly enough.

Kurow.3076:

yolo swaggins.2570:

Wall of nonsense!

Holy balls…nearly everything I said went right over your head. It’s like you read and comprehended only what you wanted to hear. That’s impressive!!!

No, the only thing you said that had any worth to it were opinions. The rest had absolutely no substance to it whatsoever. And I wasn’t about to argue with opinions so I did what anyone could and looked at your post history. Assuming you were going to maintain your stance on the status of the thief profession, your post really did raise a few red flags. And so I decided to just go a few steps ahead of the discussion and cut it off.

The fact is you advocate the meta and your posts show it. I want to push for a more malleable meta for thief so the class doesn’t stay a boring generic Rogue. And because of it, I question anyone who doesn’t maintain an open mind about new weapon possibilities.

For those who understand where the thief is right now, ANYTHING will help. Anything that enhances diversity will GREATLY help. But arguing “No that does not work with thief” only serves to suppress that diversity. So even if there is overwhelming evidence that the thief is getting rifle, you’ll still feel that Longbow or Rifle is a bad idea?

I ask why.

- Thief being an agile class can’t possibly flip around with a heavy greatsword.
- Offhand sword is a maybe because swords are not that heavy allowing for agility.
- Hammer is also heavy but not only that, Engi is getting a hammer come HoT. Giving it to thief aswell would be redundant.
- Foci? Maybe but it will most likely involve blind/stealth spam and thieves already have that. With the point of Specialization being that of combat role expansion, putting another weapon on thief for blind/stealth spam is redundant.
- Scepter? Same with foci.
- Staff? Physical martial arts with some magic is a possibility especially since staves are kinda light and would allow for evades. However, there is nothing new I can think of that staff would bring to the table beyond more evades, Damage, CC, etc. So staff would more than likely become a niche weapon unless it was more powerful than what thieves already have.
- Axe? Most likely would involve steady DPS which thief already has. Burst DPS… thief has that too. Same with conditions. So axe would be highly redundant.
- Terrestrial spears? Same with staff.
- Mace? Even if it came to being it would most likely be lockdown and S/D does that plenty. However, seeing a mace version of pistolwhip would be funny. I would call it Hundred Bonks.

The reason why I believe the new weapon is going to and SHOULD be rifle is purely because of the HoT preview. It would be highly disappointing to the thief community if they didn’t get a real ranged weapon but instead got the Mai Waifu no Jutsu stealth attack from the staff.

However, I can deal with Hundred Bonks too.

While your reasoning is very strong and compelling.

I’m still hoping for a great sword…
Pretty sure there’s gravity defying hair in this game… so hey, a frail looking guy should be able to wield a giant sword… just like in anime.

Eh. People who argue about this need a life. I’m happy with whatever extra weapon we get. That is all.

MightyMicah.7451:

Eh. People who argue about this need a life. I’m happy with whatever extra weapon we get. That is all.

My local superstore seems to be always out of them, can you spare me one? I constantly seem to be dead.

Is it wrong to express opinions or desires, especially in/for something we’re interested in?

The only reason I don’t want it to be a rifle is because rifles are lame and ugly. I want more melee weapons because that’s how I like to play my thief. I’d just feel really bored firming away at long range with a goofy rifle.

I support rifle as long as it doesn’t become the new lb ranger. Sure it’s counterable but it’s still toxic and annoying. What I’d like to see from it would be the playability of it relying on the position of the player. I mean, we have weapons for evades and stealth as playstyles, now we just need rifle to be the position weapon and thief combat roles are filled.

P.S. By positioning I mean kind of like the ranger sb. Have a certain amount of damage as a base and apply more effects when behind or to the side of your foe. Make it strong but please don’t make the stealth skill one of the instakill skills in the game. Other than that I would love a rifle, can use the legionnaire skin as my thief’s weapon skin, that’d look awesome.

Interesting thread include title. I want to agree half and disagree half 50%/50% here is why? Here is Wow Rogue description and Guild Wars 2 Thief description, see some similar? and some difference? stealth, traps, dual weapon, burst, venom, poison, close damage etc… To conclude: the only Thief profession i experience and know that is almost perfect with out archetype is Square Enix mmo Thief Profession.

Here is something i want to share: “The Guild Wars 2 Thief Is A Rogue Like None Other”
http://kotaku.com/5780900/the-guild-wars-2-thief-is-a-rogue-like-none-other

First here is wiki description of Thief: "The Thief, Scoundrel, or Rogue is a character class in many role-playing games, including Dungeons & Dragons, Final Fantasy, World of Warcraft and many MMORPGs. Thieves are usually stealthy and dexterous characters able to disarm traps, pick locks, spy on foes, and perform backstabs from hiding.
Thieves are usually capable of melee or ranged combat, and tend to be focused on dodging attacks rather than withstanding damage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thief_

WoW Rogue:

“Rogues are melee damage dealers. They have access to a wide range of specials that depend on their constantly refilling pool of energy. Unlike other classes, such as the ranged hunter, rogues should be in close to attack.

The primary advantage rogues have is their ability to stealth. Unless the rogue is very close and in a 180 degree arc in front of them or much lower level, players are usually unable to see them.

Rogues can only wear leather or cloth armor, are unable to use shields, and can only wield one-handed weapons (daggers, swords, maces, fist weapons, and axes). They can dual wield one-handed weapons.

Rogues acquire the passive ability to Detect Traps, which can be very valuable in PvP situations against a hunter, or in dungeons with traps, such as Icecrown Citadel (instance).

Rogues are best suited for players who like to sneak up on enemies and dish out large amounts of burst damage"

“Rogue condition Poison-Poisons generally either cause damage to the target (either instantly or as damage over time) or cause other effects (slowing the target, removing the effectiveness of healing on the target, etc.). Different weapons can have different poisons applied and faster weapons cause the poison to proc more often”.

Guild Wars 2 Thief:

“Thieves are expert in the shadow arts. They utilize stealth and shadowstepping to surprise and to get close to their target. They’re deadly in one-on-one combat using their agility, acrobatic fighting style, and the ability to steal to overcome their enemies. They have an affinity for setting traps and using venom. As an adventurer profession, thieves wear medium armor”.

Thieves have the ability to steal an item from an enemy that they can use as an environmental weapon. In terms of game mechanics, the thief does not literally steal an item, but instead creates an environmental weapon based on the targeted creature’s classification that the thief can store for later use. The stolen item will be taken from a pool of several possible items for each creature classification, including opposing players in PvP.

Thieves also have their own special weapon skill types; dual wield skills, Stealth Attacks and shadowstep skills.

Thieves are less powerful in terms of durability in comparison to some professions. They must rely on stealth, evasion, surprise attacks, and debilitating and damaging conditions to overpower their opponents"

yolo swaggins.2570:

Wall of hypocritical nonsense.

Do you realize that you were kittening about other people treating the class as a Rogue, yet you, yourself are treating it as such and attempting to ostracize weapon sets based on your own opinions?

The hypocrisy is strong with you!!!

Carry on…you’re not worth my time starting from this point onwards.

Kurow.3076:

yolo swaggins.2570:

Wall of hypocritical nonsense.

Do you realize that you were kittening about other people treating the class as a Rogue, yet you, yourself are treating it as such and attempting to ostracize weapon sets based on your own opinions?

The hypocrisy is strong with you!!!

Carry on…you’re not worth my time starting from this point onwards.

Those are some nice looking cherries you picked there. Did you pull them from the closest branch or did you kick the tree?

i am a rogue :P

What?

vpchelko.4261:

What?

must… resist…
ah… kitten IT.

Zero Day.2594:

vpchelko.4261:

What?

must… resist…
ah… kitten IT.

and……

The thread can now be closed. Successfully completed lil jon achievement.

Wow OP is way way too wrong..

Knighthonor.4061:

Wow OP is way way too wrong..

Care to elaborate?

-facepalm-

Excuse me while I go roam in WvW and make people curse at me for running stupidly cheesy builds.

Whether Thief is a Rogue or not — I still want to see a rifle as one of my Thief’s weapon.

I don’t really care about the reasons, lore, or other nonsense.

There’s no reason for a Revenant to have a hammer when a greatsword is more reasonable. With that said, ArenaNet is not about reasons and lore, so let Thief have a rifle.

End of story.

Thing is, thief isn’t even a thief.

When I think of Thief, I think about a guy who steal stuff.

When I think about GW2 thief, I think about guys that assassinate people.

runeblade.7514:

Thing is, thief isn’t even a thief.

When I think of Thief, I think about a guy who steal stuff.

When I think about GW2 thief, I think about guys that assassinate people.

Here is what thief profession/job is, see description:

Thief: Square Enix

“Most Thieves wield daggers, but some equip short swords or boomerangs. Their armor options are limited to lightweight armor and vests. They are known for having moderate physical stats, mediocre Defenses and Magic stats, and incredibly high Speed, Accuracy and Evasion. The most prominent ability of a Thief is to Steal items from their opponents. Many variations of this ability exist. With additional training, Steal can be upgraded to Mug, which steals items and inflicts damage”.

“Other abilities of a Thief include “Flee”, which allows a free escape from a battle, and “Alert”, which prevents back attacks and sometimes pincer attacks. In later installments, Thieves were also given the power to steal Gil from their opponents as well as items".

You say assassinate people? Here is what profession that assassinate people in mmo game.

Assassin-Guild Wars
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Assassin

“A swift, silent master of shadows, daggers, and death. The Assassin can chain together increasingly deadly strikes that target a foe’s critical areas, killing quickly and efficiently”.

" The Assassin walks the shadows, a deadly viper ready to strike at the heart when the enemy least expects it, nowhere and everywhere all at once. Assassins are masters of their chosen weapon, the dagger, and are expert at inflicting Critical Strikes that cause massive damage".

“The Assassin is trained to efficiently link attacks together in a chain that does not give the enemy a chance to hit back. They have mastered the ability to move as shadows—Assassins wear only lightweight armor and prefer to avoid damage by not being there when the enemy’s strike lands. Their other magical skills include Hexes that lower the target’s defenses and protect the Assassin from harm”.

“The Assassin, called Tahkayun in Old Canthan, is a profession that is unique to Cantha which is looked down upon by many individuals. They are viewed as simple mercenaries or coldblooded killers, and while some are like that, the Assassins on a whole are not”.

“Similar to the Canthan view of Rangers, which protect the balance in nature, the Assassins’ purpose is to protect the balance in society, taking out justice against those who view themselves above the laws. Because of this, many Assassins take their job very seriously”.

“Despite this overarching purpose, some Assassins are hired simply to eliminate a rival of their employer. Most Assassins answer to an employer – be it a noble, a guild leader, or the emperor himself. An Assassin without one is referred to as a Mo Zing”.

“Originally, most Assassins worked for a single client but as time moved on, and as the demand for Assassins rose, they began to organize themselves into guilds and now work for multiple clients; those who do work for a single employer now often work for the highest of Canthan nobility.

Assassins are swift melee strikers who are meant to get in and get out, inflicting massive damage quickly with multiple hits. They are masters of the shadows and blade, allowing them to move quickly to strike".

So from research and investigation: Thief is not even a assassin or even a thief. Assassin in Guild Wars have identity, Thief in Square Enix have identitiy and thief in Guild Wars 2 have no identity at all.

Thief is a mix profession that do not have own identity while other profession in the game have own identity. That is also why thief is not challenge profession, because they are mix of other profession.

Yes, wiki describe thief a rogue but see assassin… from guild wars….true assassin, see thief… in square enix….true thief. see thief… in guild wars 2….no true thief….all mix

Example: (not offense, just using example for sad case for a child not have true home) It is like raise a child in so many home that the child do not even know true home.

That is thief in Guild Wars 2

That is why Thief is a lonely profession: no true home, no identity, no true friend, no true accept. no true love, no true anything

That is the reason why Thief is fill with Anger and Hate.

As long Thief remain this way

As long Thief remain B r o k e n

Nothing true will happen.

for t h i e f.

Thief , in my oppinion, should not get rifle. If they did, i imagsine, whatwould current thiefs want out of it? as ive heard often, is a hidden, single target high damage sniper.

This role, in a nutshell, already exists with the longbow ranger. A medium armored, long range bursty shooter ( long rsnge shot is more pwerful when far away) with stealth. Why give this exact same role to a thief? Anet, at least i dont believe, would be so boring to make this descision.

it seems to me, that when thieves ask for this sniper class, what they want, is a
better version of the longbow ranger. Why would it be more powerful? Everyone compalains about how lb rangers do most of their damage beforeo you even know thiey are around, at 1800 ranger. Can you imagine the same thing froma thief that would likely have more access to easy stealth, in addition to the initiative systemto spam the skills?additionally, thieves arent restrained power wise due to having a pet, therfore your weapon skills themselves would be stronger comparatively.

so i would ask thieves that want sniper: how is this fair to ranger, a class that has historically been troubled by the thief class until now?

in my mind, less boring weapon options for specializations include axe, focus, and scepter.

It’s hard to tell what’s going on here; is this an argument for rifle, or against the Rogue archetype? If your main argument is that “Thief is not a Rogue”, then you probably weren’t playing the class at launch, when the Thief class most certainly WAS set up as a Rogue. There was no cooldown on Stealth, so you had 100% Crit Chance on basically every other attack, there was no “Ferocity” stat, so you could stack up well over 250% Crit Damage, & Thieves were absolutely blowing people the kitten up left & right, because even with Valkyrie gear (giving the Thief around 18k+ health) Thieves were landing 18k+ backstabs against every Light Armor class enemy they saw! The Thief was an Assassin; there was a very good reason why, in every part of the game, more than 50% of Thieves were holding a Dagger in at least 1 hand.

Of course, after much, MUCH whining from people using every class in the game (including many Thieves who just got bored with their “auto-win” build), the Backstab Thief has been through a long series of almost monthly nerfs that never seemed to end. So you could say that the Thief is no longer a Rogue, but there is a good reason that many people still view the class this way; they still remember when the Thief was a Rogue!

If you’re just making the argument that you like Rifles, and so Thief should get a Rifle, that’s fine, I personally don’t care one way or the other.

Otokomae.9356:

It’s hard to tell what’s going on here; is this an argument for rifle, or against the Rogue archetype? If your main argument is that “Thief is not a Rogue”, then you probably weren’t playing the class at launch, when the Thief class most certainly WAS set up as a Rogue. There was no cooldown on Stealth, so you had 100% Crit Chance on basically every other attack, there was no “Ferocity” stat, so you could stack up well over 250% Crit Damage, & Thieves were absolutely blowing people the kitten up left & right, because even with Valkyrie gear (giving the Thief around 18k+ health) Thieves were landing 18k+ backstabs against every Light Armor class enemy they saw! The Thief was an Assassin; there was a very good reason why, in every part of the game, more than 50% of Thieves were holding a Dagger in at least 1 hand.

Of course, after much, MUCH whining from people using every class in the game (including many Thieves who just got bored with their “auto-win” build), the Backstab Thief has been through a long series of almost monthly nerfs that never seemed to end. So you could say that the Thief is no longer a Rogue, but there is a good reason that many people still view the class this way; they still remember when the Thief was a Rogue!

If you’re just making the argument that you like Rifles, and so Thief should get a Rifle, that’s fine, I personally don’t care one way or the other.

assassin is probably technically more accurate of a name, but by definition, the thief is a still a rouge and always has been – a loner, vagabond, scoundrel, cheater, etc. Some people aren’t happy until a class conforms to the standards that was set in place by say, D&D, the canonized quintessential rogue, what I believe the OP is arguing it is not, though I say it doesn’t matter. Its the same reason why some ranger players think that rangers should be all about the bow, bout’ the bow, no melee. GW2, is not about canon though, it aims to break the mold, at leas until its players abandon them.

nerfs aside, thieves are still very meta in pvp, and I do very well with mine there. They are good in wvw outside of zerging and although I don’t play my theif in pve, I understand that they do well in dungeons.

Just to add my two cents, I want a rifle for my thief. I dont give an actual kitten about lore or what build this class requires. I just want my thief to dual wield daggers (which I got) and use a kitten rifle (which I haven’t gotten yet). That is all. My reason is? I paid for this game and I want it, do we really need any other reason?

Zatoichi.1049:

assassin is probably technically more accurate of a name, but by definition, the thief is a still a rouge and always has been – a loner, vagabond, scoundrel, cheater, etc. Some people aren’t happy until a class conforms to the standards that was set in place by say, D&D, the canonized quintessential rogue, what I believe the OP is arguing it is not, though I say it doesn’t matter. Its the same reason why some ranger players think that rangers should be all about the bow, bout’ the bow, no melee. GW2, is not about canon though, it aims to break the mold, at leas until its players abandon them.

Ah… well, if the Thief could just see traps and disable them before his allies run over them, than basically he would be a D&D Rogue. Honestly, a D&D~ish Ranger would be incredibly fun in GW2; D&D Rangers weren’t just all about the bow, for people who got into the meta-game w/ D&D, Rangers were all about dual-wielding, and having significantly faster attack speed than everyone else. Meaningful differences in basic attack speed is something that could fun to add in GW2, really, to give a little more separation between classes, and balance out DPS and Defense differences between classes without buffing or nerfing base attacks.

Otokomae.9356:

stuff

It is both but not exactly both.

I wrote this because I keep seeing players recoil when someone mentions rifles in builds and then precede to name off a multitude of melee weapons they believe fits into the thief profession better, for example mace. And all of them tend to be niche or redundant and simply do not help expand the thief’s role in combat, possibly turning the specialization into a waste of coding.

Even if I didn’t want rifle myself, I couldn’t ignore the fact that there is a great amount of evidence that supports rifle over others as the next weapon thieves will get. Listing them and explaining them would be a thread in itself.

But the point of this thread is to tell people to stop limiting their view of the profession. Just because the thief is all roguey and kitten doesn’t mean that the thief is a rogue. And to say rifle will never work with thief is pure bullkitten. Maybe rifle thieves (or w/e) will be the new meta. You never know.

I always find it kinda weird when some players try to press their logic surrounding a role of a profession in this game – based on our current real-world conception of the profession’s name – during a time period from our real-world past.

Scoundrels, loners, assassins all in our current time have used long-guns, so whose to say that those types from a fictional game- which has teleportation portals, levitating furniture technology, and laser cannons – would not use big shooty pew-pew machines?

*not really a reply to anyone in general, just the first thing that came to mind after drifting loosely through this big thread

Turk.5460:

Scoundrels, loners, assassins all in our current time have used long-guns, so whose to say that those types from a fictional game- which has teleportation portals, levitating furniture technology, and laser cannons – would not use big shooty pew-pew machines?

Nobody of course. The current problem on my end is the rifle is mainly a high direct damage based weapon with a possibility for 1200 range. In order to keep the unhealthy aspect at bay for rifle users, Warriors need to channel for their very predictable Killshot + Burst combo to take off and has no mobility on it. Engineer’s best damage is at close, even melee range and the movement and mobility skill they get is clumsy with a minor drawback. With what I’ve seen in terms of skill suggestions, everyone wants to instagib other players from stealth at 1200 – 1500 range and with increased mobility. At this point, it would become unhealthy to fight such a Thief, so unhealthy that throwing yourself at a Mesmer or turret Engi will feel like a vacation.

On top of this quite a lot of people here hate, and spit on the longbow rangers, their gameplay, and yet they want access to such a thing. Why?

My Thief would very much prefer an eventual rework on pistols more than anything else. And I’ll honestly give a kudos if the devs manage to implant the Rifle for Thief, in a non-intrusive and healthy manner.

Why do everyoen assumes that if we get Rifles we will get sniper skills?

Wake up people. Warrior ALREADY have the sniping skill

I am afraid our rifle end up some Cond Damage set or something.

SoulSin.5682:

Why do everyoen assumes that if we get Rifles we will get sniper skills?

Wake up people. Warrior ALREADY have the sniping skill

I am afraid our rifle end up some Cond Damage set or something.

Good sustained damage assault rifles would be cool. Especially with damage drop off, so the farther away you get, the less damage you do (like fps games). I don’t see why a rifle needs to be a burst weapon, it just needs to put enough pressure on the enemy that you can wait for an opening to burst them down with your weapon swap.

SoulSin.5682:

Why do everyoen assumes that if we get Rifles we will get sniper skills?

That’s what many people do expect, or want from a rifle if handed to the Thief, despite seeing an examplar display on Warriors, and hating on the current Longbow Rangers. You just have to look at the suggestion threads about this weapon dating from the release of the game.

If I give two cents, Rifle for theif would be the same as Hammer for Warriors. Prolly a CC set.

- Shoot the Legs for cripple, Shoot Eyes for blind, Shoot Arms for Weaken. Etc.

SoulSin.5682:

If I give two cents, Rifle for theif would be the same as Hammer for Warriors. Prolly a CC set.

- Shoot the Legs for cripple, Shoot Eyes for blind, Shoot Arms for Weaken. Etc.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Body_Shot
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Headshot
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Powder

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Serpent%27s_Touch
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lotus_Poison

So what you’re saying is, P/P thief with some traits in Deadly Arts.

Nothing new can come out of the rifle aside from 1200 range that doesn’t already exist in P/P or be overpowered or overshadow P/P because of its initiative problems.

The rifle isn’t suitable not only for lore reasons but because it actually just has no place in the way the current gear sets work aside from a 1200 range auto… which the longbow fulfills and makes sense with existing shortbow proficiency; one for single-target damage and skirmishing mobility with no steal or blinds, one for all general utility.

Many solid arguments and an interesting thread to be sure. I guess I’ll give my two cents for why I’m not keen on the rifle.

The main reason why I’m not thrilled about the rifle idea is that IMO, rifle has always struck me as a “stick-&-shoot” weapon with every class I’ve seen use it, which is completely antithetical to the the mobile play style that made me fall in love with the thief in the first place. Granted, I feel that we need a 1200 range weapon, given the fact that we are literally the only class that doesn’t have one. However, I would prefer that the weapon we get would encourage more movement, and I just have a hard time seeing that with a rifle kit, especially if Anet decides to go into the whole sniper trope with the specialization. I have an easier time seeing it with the Longbow (mainly due to how they’ve handled Thief and Ranger Shortbow), but not with rifle. But I’ll be happy with anything so long as the weapon play style keeps us on our toes. Some people recommended making the new weapon centered around positioning, similar to the Ranger SB, and I personally think that is a fabulous idea.

TL;DR: Again, the main thing is that I don’t want a weapon whose kit encourages stationary combat, especially since this is the only specialization we’ll be getting for a while. If it does, it’ll be as if they didn’t even add a specialization in my eyes, since I’ll be playing something more akin to a ranger (which is in my opinion one of the more boring professions). Is it self-centered? Yeah, probably. But nevertheless, those are my thoughts on the issue.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Knighthonor.4061:

Wow OP is way way too wrong..

Care to elaborate?

http://rift.wikia.com/wiki/Rogue
Seem very Rogue like to me..

Knighthonor.4061:

yolo swaggins.2570:

Knighthonor.4061:

Wow OP is way way too wrong..

Care to elaborate?

http://rift.wikia.com/wiki/Rogue
Seem very Rogue like to me..

Maybe if thief was purely restricted to d/d I would agree with you.

By design the rifle is a bulky, long ranged weapon which undermines the quick, evasive class I love. A good thief can stand in the thick of a fight just by dodging, blinding, and teleporting around. Miss a dodge or blow your teleports too early and you die. It’s high risk, high reward gameplay. I would hate to see thieves reduced to standing safely on walls shooting into the fray much like LB rangers do now. Sure it’s funny to instagib someone from 1200 range but it’s… not lasting gameplay and good gameplay should not be sacrificed for lore.

Starsurfer.7209:

TL;DR: Again, the main thing is that I don’t want a weapon whose kit encourages stationary combat, especially since this is the only specialization we’ll be getting for a while. If it does, it’ll be as if they didn’t even add a specialization in my eyes, since I’ll be playing something more akin to a ranger (which is in my opinion one of the more boring professions). Is it self-centered? Yeah, probably. But nevertheless, those are my thoughts on the issue.

Same reasons why I don’t want rifle for thieves.

The ranger part – rangers seem boring due to the fact that most play lb. A melee ranger with sword/gs on other hand can surpass sword thief in some aspects but it requires more skill than sword thief to be played on this level.

The class itself isn’t boring at all, it’s just that it’s played the boring way by the majority of ranger playerbase.