Okay I main thief and have until today mostly sPvPed with my thief.
I rarely encounter HS spammers, and most other thieves that cross me usually end up rather dead.
But lately playing as an ele I realize that a majority of thieves out there really just spam the number (2) button. It’s super annoying and frankly lame. Now I know why when thief vs. thief fight happens I come up on top like about 80-90% of the time, because you can’t really HS spam when your opponent is stealthed, and apparently 80% of thieves out there is used to HS spamming to glory.
Not sure what the fix is without severely gimping the class against other top tier classes (eg. Mesmer, stun lock zerker war), but man I think something should be done about the HS spam. May be further half the damage above 50%, and double when below, to force the cheese players to press some other buttons and not clobber other classes by just pressing one button repeatedly.
Granted I sux as an ele, but no class should be able to beat another class by pressing just 1 button repeatedly.
I’m guessing you arent losing to the thief 1v1, so i’m assuming the thief is just clean up killing you from 50%ish health with heartseeker. As annoying and skilless as this is, its not overpowered. Assuming in correct about the situation any class should wreck you if you have half your health and probably have many skills/utilities on cooldown. It just seems more embarassing to die to a heartseeker hero (even if you are already low health). If you dont mind telling me what amulet and weaponset you are using i could probably give you some advice to wreck those heartseeker heroes
Thief: Rand x Al Thor | Mesmer: Egwene x Alvere
Dragonbrand |Twitch: twitch.tv/pantsforbirds
With P/P, you just spam Unload instead, and maybe a few Head/Blinding shots here/there. ;P
Fortunately, one Unload usually takes one of those HS spammers to 10% health… ;P If they don’t stealth before the next channel, then you have to wait around for their soon-to-be corpse to show.
I switched my build to carry 3 cantrips instead of signets and seem to be better able to get away from situation.
But yeah I was 1 on 1 for the most part. The thief barely used any stealth. From 90% health he was spamming heart seeker and not much else. He was DD so yes I was on the look out for CnD. And I’m pretty sure I kept moving enough that I didn’t get hit by one. The damage was lame, had I been on my thief he’d be dead in no time. But this being an ele, w/o cantrips I was toast, I couldn’t outheal the damage and I couldn’t get away either.
But the whole thing just left me feeling cheesed out… that being said, there’re a lot of super cheesy classes out there to an ele. The mesmers with stupid clones, the guardians you couldn’t kill etc., but noob seeker spamming thief probably ranks at the top if not the top of the cheese awards. Although ele being hard to play and kitten is not out of the question either.
The best skills that can actually score a kill are always on cool down for eternity… may be that’s why the cantrips are so popular because there’s no way to go toe to toe with any other classes out there while your high hitters are on cool down. Might as well jet out
Well it depends if there are other skills that can used for dealing maximum DPS.
Auto attack is automatically used so that rules it out. Heartseeker is great yes. Death blossom is for condi specs so that rules it out for power specs. Dancing dagger would’ve nice…if it didn’t get nerfed to oblivion. CND is used for setting up a backstab…which is unnecessary if the target’s back is already facing you since backstab does more damage and you wouldn’t be wasting time standing in stealth doing no damage.
In some occassions, heartseeker spam just makes sense. One thing the dev should do is maybe buff our other skills so we can use more than 1 skill and that would also cut down on the Heartseeker spam QQ since we would be using a diverse array of skills to kill an opponent.
Okay I main thief and have until today mostly sPvPed with my thief.
I rarely encounter HS spammers, and most other thieves that cross me usually end up rather dead.
But lately playing as an ele I realize that a majority of thieves out there really just spam the number (2) button. It’s super annoying and frankly lame. Now I know why when thief vs. thief fight happens I come up on top like about 80-90% of the time, because you can’t really HS spam when your opponent is stealthed, and apparently 80% of thieves out there is used to HS spamming to glory.
Not sure what the fix is without severely gimping the class against other top tier classes (eg. Mesmer, stun lock zerker war), but man I think something should be done about the HS spam. May be further half the damage above 50%, and double when below, to force the cheese players to press some other buttons and not clobber other classes by just pressing one button repeatedly.
Granted I sux as an ele, but no class should be able to beat another class by pressing just 1 button repeatedly.
You just proved that Heartseeker is in a good place and is not broken
Thief you: Hey i know how to play my class and when i encounter a HS spammer, i win!
Elem you : Hey i dont know how to play my class really good yet and when i encounter a HS i might lose!
Hs spammer are mostly easily countered by good player and even if you would nerf this particular ability, they would just fall to the next one to press. Just like the warrior class is full of 2hnd warrior that goes 100b without rooting and dont understand why they cant touch you. Just like you see a ton of engineer pressing #1 with the flamethrower as the main source of damage.
Whatever you buff, whatever you nerf, they will get to the next good ability and spam this one instead. Be lucky its only heartseeker and not FS/LS with ini regen build, stealing all your boons and be un perma evade.
When you have a profession where most of their skills either weak and utility-heavy or damaging, you are going to get alot of skill spamming. DPS is king afterall and thieves’ selection of truely damaging abilities are limited.
When you have a profession where most of their skills either weak and utility-heavy or damaging, you are going to get alot of skill spamming. DPS is king afterall and thieves’ selection of truely damaging abilities are limited.
We only got backstab, heartseeker, and unload. All the rest are more for utility imo.
CND? Set up a backstab.
FS/LS? 1/4s evade, strip boons.
Dancing dagger? ranged cripple
Headshot? interrupt
Blackpowder? blind and dark field
etc etc We don’t have a lot of choices for when we want to deal damage. It’s pretty much heartseeker or auto attack and auto attack doesn’t really need to be used since it’s auto…
I switched my build to carry 3 cantrips instead of signets and seem to be better able to get away from situation.
But yeah I was 1 on 1 for the most part. The thief barely used any stealth. From 90% health he was spamming heart seeker and not much else. He was DD so yes I was on the look out for CnD. And I’m pretty sure I kept moving enough that I didn’t get hit by one. The damage was lame, had I been on my thief he’d be dead in no time. But this being an ele, w/o cantrips I was toast, I couldn’t outheal the damage and I couldn’t get away either.
But the whole thing just left me feeling cheesed out… that being said, there’re a lot of super cheesy classes out there to an ele. The mesmers with stupid clones, the guardians you couldn’t kill etc., but noob seeker spamming thief probably ranks at the top if not the top of the cheese awards. Although ele being hard to play and kitten is not out of the question either.
The best skills that can actually score a kill are always on cool down for eternity… may be that’s why the cantrips are so popular because there’s no way to go toe to toe with any other classes out there while your high hitters are on cool down. Might as well jet out
Well im not completely sure what kind of build you are running, but if you are running d/d my best advice is to use your chill on the #3 skill of water atunement. After you chill them you can use updraft to get some distance, use burning speed etc. Basically you just want to kite them while they are chilled. They will probably spam heartseeker, which is effected by chill and will have a very small range. They wont be able to hit you with the reduced range and after they blow their initiative you can stomp them. If you dont know your rotations on d/d ele, then you are going to have a very hard time fighting against any class.
If you are a scepter dagger ele you can just use a burst rotation and probaly one shot the thief. Try using earthquake + lightning flash to knock them down swap fire attunement dragontooth, ring of fire, phoenix, swap air updraft, ride the lightning lightning strike + arcane blast + arcane wave. Its kind of hard to pull off the entire rotation but if you can do it quickly it will literally one shot that thief. If you are taking too much pressure before you can get off this rotation use your water #4 skill. It gives you an aura that will chill the thieves on hit.
Another good choice is to simply use your aura from the air attunement. It will stun the thief if he hits you (which will wreck a heartseeker hero)
Note: i like ele in spvp, but i only have like 50 hours on the class right now, so the ele subforum is probably better for this kind of thing.
Thief: Rand x Al Thor | Mesmer: Egwene x Alvere
Dragonbrand |Twitch: twitch.tv/pantsforbirds
I switched my build to carry 3 cantrips instead of signets and seem to be better able to get away from situation.
But yeah I was 1 on 1 for the most part. The thief barely used any stealth. From 90% health he was spamming heart seeker and not much else. He was DD so yes I was on the look out for CnD. And I’m pretty sure I kept moving enough that I didn’t get hit by one. The damage was lame, had I been on my thief he’d be dead in no time. But this being an ele, w/o cantrips I was toast, I couldn’t outheal the damage and I couldn’t get away either.
But the whole thing just left me feeling cheesed out… that being said, there’re a lot of super cheesy classes out there to an ele. The mesmers with stupid clones, the guardians you couldn’t kill etc., but noob seeker spamming thief probably ranks at the top if not the top of the cheese awards. Although ele being hard to play and kitten is not out of the question either.
The best skills that can actually score a kill are always on cool down for eternity… may be that’s why the cantrips are so popular because there’s no way to go toe to toe with any other classes out there while your high hitters are on cool down. Might as well jet out
Well im not completely sure what kind of build you are running, but if you are running d/d my best advice is to use your chill on the #3 skill of water atunement. After you chill them you can use updraft to get some distance, use burning speed etc. Basically you just want to kite them while they are chilled. They will probably spam heartseeker, which is effected by chill and will have a very small range. They wont be able to hit you with the reduced range and after they blow their initiative you can stomp them. If you dont know your rotations on d/d ele, then you are going to have a very hard time fighting against any class.
If you are a scepter dagger ele you can just use a burst rotation and probaly one shot the thief. Try using earthquake + lightning flash to knock them down swap fire attunement dragontooth, ring of fire, phoenix, swap air updraft, ride the lightning lightning strike + arcane blast + arcane wave. Its kind of hard to pull off the entire rotation but if you can do it quickly it will literally one shot that thief. If you are taking too much pressure before you can get off this rotation use your water #4 skill. It gives you an aura that will chill the thieves on hit.
Another good choice is to simply use your aura from the air attunement. It will stun the thief if he hits you (which will wreck a heartseeker hero)
Note: i like ele in spvp, but i only have like 50 hours on the class right now, so the ele subforum is probably better for this kind of thing.
Thief: Rand x Al Thor | Mesmer: Egwene x Alvere
Dragonbrand |Twitch: twitch.tv/pantsforbirds
if dancing dagger nerf was reverted we would see some more diverse skill usage for sure. I mean thieves USED to use dancing dagger against packs of 2 since it did more damage than heartseeker, but only for that case.
In general, we need buffs to make other skills worth using instead of nerfing the only skill that is worth using.
if dancing dagger nerf was reverted we would see some more diverse skill usage for sure. I mean thieves USED to use dancing dagger against packs of 2 since it did more damage than heartseeker, but only for that case.
In general, we need buffs to make other skills worth using instead of nerfing the only skill that is worth using.
There might be some truth to that… I even forgot Dancing Dagger was there… rather than more damage though I prefer a bit more CC. I think we got our damage end covered quite well. May be add torment to Dancing Dagger, or lengthen the cripple duration by a second or two.
I suppose to an extent even Death Blossom, evade frame too short, and damage paltry for initiative spent – you’re better off saving it up for stealth by auto attacking. Would be nice to get even a 1/2 second evade frame.
But yeah HS is still cheesy though… I submit that we go back to 1/3rd break down like before, but double the damage at the lower 1/3rd, half it at the upper 3rd and charge an extra initiative.
@OP Sigh. Another thread like this. If obviously are not main as a thief. First, there are not a lot of HS spammers. Second, you should be happy if you see a HS spammer. They are easy to kill.
@OP Sigh. Another thread like this. If obviously are not main as a thief. First, there are not a lot of HS spammers. Second, you should be happy if you see a HS spammer. They are easy to kill.
A thief spam HS 4 times (5 if 15 in Trickery). It’s just impossible to die to heartseeker if you’re getting attacked from 100% hp. You can evade two of them and then it’s game over for the initiative free thief..
A thief spam HS 4 times (5 if 15 in Trickery). It’s just impossible to die to heartseeker if you’re getting attacked from 100% hp. You can evade two of them and then it’s game over for the initiative free thief..
I dunno how to fix it, it may be balanced, but it’s so effective despite being skill-less I dunno what to make of it. It seems to be begging for a dmg and initiative increase, so it’ll be just as powerful, but won’t be as spamable.
I dunno how to fix it, it may be balanced, but it’s so effective despite being skill-less I dunno what to make of it. It seems to be begging for a dmg and initiative increase, so it’ll be just as powerful, but won’t be as spamable.
how is it effective???
it’s called dodging the heart seekers. try it sometime it works good.
I dunno how to fix it, it may be balanced, but it’s so effective despite being skill-less I dunno what to make of it. It seems to be begging for a dmg and initiative increase, so it’ll be just as powerful, but won’t be as spamable.
how is it effective???
it’s called dodging the heart seekers. try it sometime it works good.
Yes except that other classes besides thieves don’t have as many dodges perhaps? You’re thinking a thief vs. thief fight, which’s a no brainer unless they get the jump on you while you’re busy fighting.
Regardless there needs to be a bit more thought to using the skill than spamming 2. I rather see the damage goes up along with initiative to give it a bit more risk to using it. At least make it 4 init, and move the damage to the way it was pre-nerf. It’ll be more effective, but at the same time you’ll need to think a bit more before mashing the button because dodges/block/even heal will kitten you worse.
Another thought would be to use positioning. Eg. 100% more damage from the front and simply do away with the whole less than x% health crap. That’ll make our attacks a lot less predictable, than just cloak… wait 3-4 second, and back stab at 6 o’clock. At the same time this will incentize thieves to reposition rather than simply hit “2”. Another option would be to “leap” only if the enemy is facing away from you. That’ll also cut on the spam-aton metality.
I dunno how to fix it, it may be balanced, but it’s so effective despite being skill-less I dunno what to make of it. It seems to be begging for a dmg and initiative increase, so it’ll be just as powerful, but won’t be as spamable.
how is it effective???
it’s called dodging the heart seekers. try it sometime it works good.
Yes except that other classes besides thieves don’t have as many dodges perhaps? You’re thinking a thief vs. thief fight, which’s a no brainer unless they get the jump on you while you’re busy fighting.
Regardless there needs to be a bit more thought to using the skill than spamming 2. I rather see the damage goes up along with initiative to give it a bit more risk to using it. It should at least be 4 init, and move the damage to the way it was pre-nerf. It’ll be more effective, but at the same time you can’t just spam your way to glory like now.
Every class has the ability to dodge twice. Spamming 2 (or any initiative spender for that matter) is not effective, everyone is this thread is telling you this. You sound like an extremely desperate troll that doesn’t want to learn how to play.
To their credit, having spent a bit of time on my thief and leveled to 75ish, I can say it’s pretty easy to spam HS accidentally. It only has an animation CD you know, so it’s not hard to miss press in the heat of combat.
“Failure to remain calm is the sign of a weak mind.”
To their credit, having spent a bit of time on my thief and leveled to 75ish, I can say it’s pretty easy to spam HS accidentally. It only has an animation CD you know, so it’s not hard to miss press in the heat of combat.
And this has nothing to do with the discussion here.
it would still be spammed, but now with more damage to boot. this wouldn’t change a thing except hurt the people who use it for mobility.
The spammable mobility is the most broken thing about it. Which’s exactly what should be nerfed. How about 6 init, but hs stuns target/ imobilize, and allow you to combo off CnD. Again it’ll be useful, but it won’t be stupidly spammable. And if they dodge you, you lose a lot of initiative.
Get the thieves some other mobility skills that isn’t as broken, eg. the minor adept trait could give 5/6 second swiftness on dodge roll instead of a paltry 2. Something like that.
Right now there’re too few options in the thieves arsenal, but the ones that work, work too well for the level of skill involvement.
Why are you shifting the HS spam complaint into a different direction??? First you were complaining that you were dying to often to it, now it makes them too mobile?
If a thief is spamming HS to be mobile in a fight, then they won’t have the firepower to take anyone down…
Your arguments are flawed and I don’t see the point of this thread.
Why are you shifting the HS spam complaint into a different direction??? First you were complaining that you were dying to often to it, now it makes them too mobile?
If a thief is spamming HS to be mobile in a fight, then they won’t have the firepower to take anyone down…
Your arguments are flawed and I don’t see the point of this thread.
Duh it deals better than mediocre damage while closing gaps and is very spammable.
It’s basically a decent reward, no risk involved skill against the right classes, for thieves that are so traited. You need to add some element of risk to it, and may be a buff to make it higher risk and higher reward, so not just any zombie can spam it.
Why are you shifting the HS spam complaint into a different direction??? First you were complaining that you were dying to often to it, now it makes them too mobile?
If a thief is spamming HS to be mobile in a fight, then they won’t have the firepower to take anyone down…
Your arguments are flawed and I don’t see the point of this thread.
Duh it deals better than mediocre damage while closing gaps and is very spammable.
It’s basically a decent reward, no risk involved skill against the right classes, for thieves that are so traited. You need to add some element of risk to it, and may be a buff so not just any zombie can use it.
To their credit, having spent a bit of time on my thief and leveled to 75ish, I can say it’s pretty easy to spam HS accidentally. It only has an animation CD you know, so it’s not hard to miss press in the heat of combat.
And this has nothing to do with the discussion here.
Thanks for your input anyways.
Yes it does. But having re-read the thread I see it’s just a troll attempt.
“Failure to remain calm is the sign of a weak mind.”
@OP Sigh. Another thread like this. If obviously are not main as a thief. First, there are not a lot of HS spammers. Second, you should be happy if you see a HS spammer. They are easy to kill.
The ignorance from people are disturbing… Ive been called out by several people to be a heartseek spammer, when im standing on their corpse.
I use heartseek when people are at 0-50% hp and when i need to gap close, some classes just get away from you real easy and you need to get closer and you use heartseek to do that.
When someone is at 50% hp, it takes basically 1-3 heartseekers to finish them off. If you complain about this, complain about how our skill works, not that we spam them, what other option do we have… auto attack just to please you? wtf.
Not sure what the fix is without severely gimping the class against other top tier classes (eg. Mesmer,),
Top tier and Mesmer shouldnt be said in the same sentence. For one they are rarely seen in SPvP, Played 2 hours tonight and saw ONE. Second they are FAR from Top Tier, in this Condition Meta they are pretty easy, fill them up with conditions and laugh as they die.
They are even worse in TPvP – you notice the recent tournment? it had ONE Mesmer (iirc) that says it all, they are far from the top.
Why does the HS spam even matter anymore. While I agree spamming skills and spammable skills should not be part of the game. Among the offenders this is the weakest and crappiest of them all. If the target is between 100 and 50% health the damage isn’t even very good.
Here a little truth. Thief is cheese but most players run cheese builds where you are either stun locked while they DPS. Most player run builds with rotations designed to gib in one way or another. HS is likely one of the easiest to counter and can not instagib.
Kor The Cold Heart War Wrekkes-Engineer Kore Rok Thief-Asraithe-Ele
Why does the HS spam even matter anymore. While I agree spamming skills and spammable skills should not be part of the game. Among the offenders this is the weakest and crappiest of them all. If the target is between 100 and 50% health the damage isn’t even very good.
Here a little truth. Thief is cheese but most players run cheese builds where you are either stun locked while they DPS. Most player run builds with rotations designed to gib in one way or another. HS is likely one of the easiest to counter and can not instagib.
There’s truth to that, sigh… I just wished it’d be stronger in return for requiring a bit more skill to use.
if people still die to HS spams, i really do feel for them, cant remember the last time i lost to a HS spam thief on any toon, i do however see them a lot i guess there the ‘’thief is OP let become one’’ crowd.
First of all; why are you still playing this game? You speak of it as if it’s some kind of conspiracy and other bullkitten. If Anet intended for the thief to be walking gods then they failed miserably. The only place in this game where we really excel (not saying we’re bad elsewhere, just that we really shine here) is WvW. We create duelist builds created for one purpose: deceive our enemies and kill them. Most thieves build for solo roaming and dueling, which gives them a really good reason to kill team focused builds…
Actually in the first fight that thief used all his abilities -minus the signet of shadows to down that mesmer. I dont understand how he is spamming 1 key to win .. Maybe we watched different videos ?
Thief is not cheese , a zerker warrior is cheese or a condition necromancer now that’s some serious cheese. Have a good day
Okay I main thief and have until today mostly sPvPed with my thief.
I rarely encounter HS spammers, and most other thieves that cross me usually end up rather dead.
But lately playing as an ele I realize that a majority of thieves out there really just spam the number (2) button. It’s super annoying and frankly lame. Now I know why when thief vs. thief fight happens I come up on top like about 80-90% of the time, because you can’t really HS spam when your opponent is stealthed, and apparently 80% of thieves out there is used to HS spamming to glory.
Not sure what the fix is without severely gimping the class against other top tier classes (eg. Mesmer, stun lock zerker war), but man I think something should be done about the HS spam. May be further half the damage above 50%, and double when below, to force the cheese players to press some other buttons and not clobber other classes by just pressing one button repeatedly.
Granted I sux as an ele, but no class should be able to beat another class by pressing just 1 button repeatedly.
