Thief killed by Warrior in 2 seconds:
Oh so now we are squishy? you should use that same logic when you create qq threads about gettin hit for 18k backstab.
Gamblit.5041: you should move this thread to the warrior section.
He said he’s running a Backstab build which would imply that he has hardly any defense. Yes, I’d say he is squishy. I also have no idea about the 18k Backstabs you have witnessed. 100B is not a good skill and all you need to do is dodge the stun or immobilize that comes before it.
(edited by Thorp.7982)
say hello to a broken/unbalanced game… the fact that thief can burst so much in so little time IS a problem. But when you also die in 1-2 seconds, then is NOT a problem. wtf?
How did you not dodge the HB?
Did you have no endurance + Withdraw on CD?
Whats your offhand weapon set?
the point of this thread is, when we (thieves) kill them in less than 3 secs they complain
but when we are killed by other class in less than 3 secs, they say its balanced,
oh why… there goes their reasoning
I think it is balanced. Both of those builds are so bad to anyone who knows what they’re doing and can only perform their fragile combo every 45 seconds or so.
Oldgrimm.8521
the point of this thread is, when we (thieves) kill them in less than 3 secs they complain
but when we are killed by other class in less than 3 secs, they say its balanced,
oh why… there goes their reasoning
They say we are squishy or we don’t have skills to dodge etc.
Think people miss the real reason why a good amount of people complain.
The main difference is:
You can see the warrior coming with Bull’s Charge.
You can’t see a thief coming before backstab comes.
Anyway Quickness is op, that’s true. But BS thieves are op the same.
Oldgrimm.8521
the point of this thread is, when we (thieves) kill them in less than 3 secs they complain
but when we are killed by other class in less than 3 secs, they say its balanced,
oh why… there goes their reasoning
They say we are squishy or we don’t have skills to dodge etc.
The difference is the Basilisk/Devour + Mug + C/D + Backstab combo is almost impossible to avoid without an extremely lucky dodge, or a perfectly executed defensive cooldown. It happens from 900-1200 range and is almost instant.
A warrior, especially a greatsword warrior has to either run up to you, rush, bull charge to get into range. There is a matter of seconds to react even to his gap closers where mug is instantaneous. He ALSO needs to use something to keep you in place so he can hit with more than a few strikes of the 100 blades. If he uses frenzy he is also taking the risk of all that additional damage. He is using multiple cooldowns to even give 100 blades a chance of fully executing on a victim, much like a pistol whip thief. I hate dying to it as much as the next guy and I still get hit by it occasionally but overall its MUCH easier to avoid than the backstab combo.
And before you complain I too play a thief but switched away from D/D some weeks ago due to its ability to kill most people with just the steal+c/d+backstab combo which is extremely boring. I also have to laugh at all the thieves who STILL spam two as well and get rewarded for it due to aim assist and the fact they can heartseeker 3-5 times in a row after I get low from the impossible to dodge backstab combo and I can dodge 2 to 3 times at best. If anything HS needs to go up to 4 initiative death blossom down to 4 and dancing dagger up to 5 for how good it is against multiple opponents.
It’s balanced when you die to a 2s channel followed by a burst after being CC’d.
It’s not balanced when you die to a 0.3s burst straight up.
If you can’t read English, please do not reply to my post.
honestly ima put my 2 cents into this . i recently went BS build for spvp and my god the players ive went up against dnt even try and react after they get hit by BS its like they just give up. now around 8 pm last night i went into a match and 1v1 a warrior. this guy actually knew wat he was doing. he didnt just mash his skill he was actually using different weapon sets i gotta say it was pretty fun he won ofcourse cuz of my squishy thief but the point was he reacted to my BS not just sit thier like a dumb kitten rock.
ive watched sum pvp vids of some thiefs pvping with BS build in WvW and i gotta say some players reaction time sucks so bad. its like they sit thier for 2 seconds before they even do anything >.>
It’s balanced when you die to a 2s channel followed by a burst after being CC’d.
Why did they nerf Pistol Whip then?
Hundred Blades will do that.
On the other hand you could have your stun breaker and he would have done a grand total of zero damage to you.
Or, if you had the initial attack you could have killed him with 1 BS and 2 Heartseekers.
Burst vs Burst will be mostly about this, you can dodge, evade/stun break better and who can land their biggest damage.
The issue with Thieves is just Stealth, that’s why all the nerfing keeps happening.
and this means we will be nerfed until it is fixed??? how about after fixing it? we will receive buffs ???
It’s balanced when you die to a 2s channel followed by a burst after being CC’d.
Why did they nerf Pistol Whip then?
Because you can do 3 pistol whips in the time it takes for 100b to cast completely. All while evading for a good portion of it and dazing 3 times. If you want 100 blades play a warrior.
At least you got a gold medal!
Because you can do 3 pistol whips in the time it takes for 100b to cast completely. All while evading for a good portion of it and dazing 3 times. If you want 100 blades play a warrior.
No you cannot. You have no idea how long it takes to Pistol Whip. Hint : the attack doesn’t start as soon as you press the button. There’s first a 0.75s cast time before the stun happens, then a small delay then the flurry animation with evade starts. All in all, I’d say it’s a full 2s time from start to finish. Hundred blades is a 3.5s channel skill. You cannot even do 2 full Pistol Whips in the duration of one Hundred Blades. Btw, it’s not a Daze, it’s a 0.5s stun.
@Djinn
and wat is exactly wrong with stealth its fine? thats basically a thiefs trademark skill. its wat keep it alive. and aswell good in groups… so i dnt understand tht statement. with C&D u can stealth alot plus the stealth skills u have in ur utility slots and aswell the traits that grant initiative regen and increases the maximum amount by 3.
It’s balanced when you die to a 2s channel followed by a burst after being CC’d.
Why did they nerf Pistol Whip then?
Because you can do 3 pistol whips in the time it takes for 100b to cast completely. All while evading for a good portion of it and dazing 3 times. If you want 100 blades play a warrior.
Pistol Whip and 100b have the SAME channal time.
Both have to be standing completely still.
Pistol Whip does 2x less damage.
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@Lordryux
Same as in all games that have stealth.
Stealth gives classes an automatic advantage over all adversaries that don’t have it, an advantage that really has no drawback or counter.
So as in all games, the classes that have are always in a constant flux of overpowered and then nerfed to the ground, and buffed again, and nerfed again, repeat…
I like the idea behing GW2 stealth, short periods of time where it’s used either to start the fight or to escape.
Obviously it’s not working like that and so the Thief class will always remain in this flux of “balance”.
It’s balanced when you die to a 2s channel followed by a burst after being CC’d.
Why did they nerf Pistol Whip then?
Because you can do 3 pistol whips in the time it takes for 100b to cast completely. All while evading for a good portion of it and dazing 3 times. If you want 100 blades play a warrior.
Pistol Whip and 100b have the SAME channal time.
Both have to be standing completely still.Pistol Whip does 2x less damage.
In my opinion PW was fine, the problem is obviously having Hasted Pistol Whip and then stealth/evasion to basically make it a no risk maneouver.
Hundred Blades + Frenzy is a one shot maneouver that either kill the opponent or the warrior will be on the position to die extremely quickly after it.
PW + Haste basically was a no drawback burst combo, the drawback (no endurance) didn’t matter because Thieves could stealth or use shortbow to escape unscatted.
In my opinion a quick fix to Quickness in thieves would be to remove the endurance part and have the drawback to be No Stealth or Weapon Change for the next 10 seconds.
The main difference is:
You can see the warrior coming with Bull’s Charge.
You can’t see a thief coming before backstab comes.Anyway Quickness is op, that’s true. But BS thieves are op the same.
Can you guys already make up your mind what you’re complaining about? Why is our backstab damage getting nerfed when the problem is as you said the stealth bug? Shouldn’t we just fix the stealth bug then and leave our backstab alone?
the point of this thread is, when we (thieves) kill them in less than 3 secs they complain
but when we are killed by other class in less than 3 secs, they say its balanced,
oh why… there goes their reasoning
You can see a 100b warrior coming from a mile away, and stun break the charge if he does get you. A thief can kill you in two seconds while invisible and shadow step away from any fight. It’s not the damage that concerns me, but the sheer unmatched evasiveness, stealth, and mobility.
" I like to let people talk who like to talk. It makes it
@Djinn
ok but u still fail to see the point that stealth is fine AND u can hit us with stealth on so i dnt see why u even brought it up. if u stop hitting when stealth is on us then ur dumb. keep using ur aoes. constantly. trust me sometimes we end up downed and u dnt even know we are untill we come out of stealth x.x
The main difference is:
You can see the warrior coming with Bull’s Charge.
You can’t see a thief coming before backstab comes.Anyway Quickness is op, that’s true. But BS thieves are op the same.
So you can’t see a pistol whip coming and dodge it…like hundred blades, and thieves are always in stealth so you never see them…didigetthatright?
Shut up with your broken logic. You can see a thief coming from a mile away and predict what they’re going to do…just like a warrior…unless you’re blind.
A nerf to PW should have carried over to the warrior, and mesmer class with their duplicate skills. Not so much mesmers because they need to be nerfed in other areas, instead of their damage.
Dude, chill out.
Pistol Whip casts in 3/4 seconds, Hundred Blades casts in 3 seconds and an half.
Pistol Whip can be casted repetitely, Hundred Blades can be casted one time every 8 seconds.
Pistol Whip has a stun in it, Hundred Blades doesn’t.
Pistol Whip evades attacks while channeling, Hundred Blades leave the caster exposed.
So, yes. The Pistol Whip nerf was fair.
Anyway I was talking about BS in comparison with HB, which I thought is the subject of the topic.
The main difference is:
You can see the warrior coming with Bull’s Charge.
You can’t see a thief coming before backstab comes.Anyway Quickness is op, that’s true. But BS thieves are op the same.
Can you guys already make up your mind what you’re complaining about? Why is our backstab damage getting nerfed when the problem is as you said the stealth bug? Shouldn’t we just fix the stealth bug then and leave our backstab alone?
It isn’t the stealth bug. It is the massive damage dealt with in a short window of time without any visual clue. You won’t have any visual clue also if they fix the stealth bug anyway.
The nerf ways are:
- Reduce Mug damage
- Reduce CnD damage
- Reduce Backstab damage
- Reduce trait bonuses damage
I think that reducing Backstab damage is the way which hits other builds less.
(edited by sorrow.2364)
Nevermind, i’m blind.
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(edited by Daecollo.9578)
Dear lord, you guys can’t argue anything.
Yes, thieves will get hit while on stealth, yes people will use aoe, but good thieves? Good thieves won’t get it by it.
The issue is having Stealth+Burst+Evasion+Steal, etc, Stealth in it’s current form is just impossible to balance.
Kurow, it’s normal that your face hurts, no one talked about 3 PW, that’s just you.
Everyone posting here really needs to play more classes, and here i was actually defending Thieves burst…
the point of this thread is, when we (thieves) kill them in less than 3 secs they complain
but when we are killed by other class in less than 3 secs, they say its balanced,
oh why… there goes their reasoning
You can see a 100b warrior coming from a mile away, and stun break the charge if he does get you. A thief can kill you in two seconds while invisible and shadow step away from any fight. It’s not the damage that concerns me, but the sheer unmatched evasiveness, stealth, and mobility.
I thought this was obvious but it seems it ain’t.
Stealth+Burst is the issue, same for Mesmers for example.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pistol_Whip – 3, 1/4 Second Channel.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hundred_Blades – 3, 1/4 Second Channel.Hundred Blades can be traited to be 6 second cooldown, which means if you use the skill, it has a 2 and 3/4 second cooldown and you use it.
Damage of Pistol Whip: 1,026
Damage of Hundred Blades: 2030 (Almost double the damage.)They.
Have.
The.
Same.
Channel.
Time.
They have the same channel time? Where do you read it?
The wiki, and also experience tbh, says that Pistol Whip channels for 3/4 seconds while Hundred Blades channels for 3 + 1/2 seconds.
Just create a Warrior, go in the Mists and use Hundred Blades unhasted.
Then pick up your thief and use Pistol Whip.
The difference in the channel time is evident, if you say they have the same channel time it is clear that you haven’t played one of the two.
[/quote]
They have the same channel time? Where do you read it?
The wiki, and also experience tbh, says that Pistol Whip channels for 3/4 seconds while Hundred Blades channels for 3 + 1/2 seconds.
Just create a Warrior, go in the Mists and use Hundred Blades unhasted.
Then pick up your thief and use Pistol Whip.
The difference in the channel time is evident, if you say they have the same channel time it is clear that you haven’t played one of the two.
[/quote]
I edited it 7 minutes ago, your right.
Of course, since it does 2 times less damage its rediculous, you would run out of int using it 3 times.
Pistol Whip shouldn’t stun, should do more damage or cost 1 less int, and be usable while moving.
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(edited by Daecollo.9578)
I edited it 7 minutes ago, your right.
Of course, since it does 2 times less damage its rediculous, you would run out of int using it 3 times.Pistol Whip shouldn’t stun, should do more damage or cost 1 less int, and be usable while moving.
Or it should be like it is now, which is fine.
It doesn’t deal too much damage, neither too low damage, costs the right amount of initiative to prevent hasted spamming and has some utility built in.
Not every skill of the thief should be full damage oriented.
It’s balanced when you die to a 2s channel followed by a burst after being CC’d.
It’s not balanced when you die to a 0.3s burst straight up.
If someone can press Venom, Sigil, CnD, Steal, Walk around the target, backstab, HS, AA 1-2 times and stomp you in 0,3 seconds, then he probably deserves the kill, don’t you think (not that it is possible, but just saying, pretty impressive)?!
This “discussion” about backstab being OP is getting more and more ridiculous every day.
Next week: Thief killed me in -10 seconds.
In two weeks: I was dead for 10 minutes before the Thief that killed me even joined WvW.
But hey, i feel ya – time travel IS a dangerous thing!
Dear lord, you guys can’t argue anything.
Yes, thieves will get hit while on stealth, yes people will use aoe, but good thieves? Good thieves won’t get it by it.
Which is as much as an argument as:
Yes, Thieves can avoid AoE’s while in stealth, yes, they still can dodge, but good players?
Good players will still hit them.
Kindergarden arguments, really.
(edited by Asum.4960)
Haha, nice. Finally someone said it. Im reading for 2 last weeks here QQ topics of crying children how is thief OP, that he kill everybody in second, that he is almost immortal…etc. but if warrior kill thief in 2 seconds its ok. You are not really normal who post these QQ topics that thief is OP. I say it all time that there are op classes but its not thief. First post show the truth.
Now everybody can see that these QQ topics was made by kids who was sometime defeated by thief and now want ruin thief even this class is now ok.
But dont hope that these kids understand it now. Their stunted brains are not built for any logic arguments. They will all time see only that their class is balanced or underpowered and thief is all time only op immortal killing machine which kill all players on map in second. We must hope that developers are experienced proffesionals which know what to do for REAL balance and not listen crying of small kids.
(edited by Runcore.5107)
eithier or .. backstab is getting nerfed deal with it find a new build test sum new weapon sets w.e u have to do .. just forget about backstab lmao its not really needed to kill anything can go P/D and still burst some 1 down quickly >.>
eithier or .. backstab is getting nerfed deal with it find a new build test sum new weapon sets w.e u have to do .. just forget about backstab lmao its not really needed to kill anything can go P/D and still burst some 1 down quickly >.>
Yes, let’s destroy valid builds for no reason at all. Why? Because it’s fun!
I think next we should take away Elementalists attunement swapping (and they choose one when making their char), and then we take away Engeneer kit’s, because really, they can just forget about kits lmao. It’s not really needed to kill anything, they can go Rifle and still burst some one down quickly.
I heard these Phantasms are phantastic.. aw come on, get rid of them too.
@Asum ur so worried about ur sarcastic remarks ur missing the point that thier are other weapon sets that are just as effective obviously open ur eyes >.>
You’re just…bad if you die to that combo without major CDs.
Immobilized? SB#5 or Shadowstep or Roll for Initiative. You are not using any of those?
Then you should have expected to be killed by that burst anytime.
@Asum ur so worried about ur sarcastic remarks ur missing the point that thier are other weapon sets that are just as effective obviously open ur eyes >.>
I play backstab Thief since Beta 1 because i think it’s fun and i like the theme and playstyle of it, not because i magically knew that it would come out to be effective.
(A stealthy killer which assassinates people out of the shadows? Heall yeah!)
That there are (very few) other builds for Thief doesn’t mean we need to dumb down one after another to satisfy some bad QQ’ers, who won’t stop anyway.
There was no backstab QQ when Pistol Whip was viable, then it got nerfed to a point where nobody (rightfully so) uses it anymore. And now we have another build that stands out.
But instead of buffing the other builds and weapons in line of the good one, we destroy the next one. And then?
Right, we continue, and continue, and continue.
I played to many games, and saw that happen to many times.
Such decisions are not about bias or QQ, they are about experience and knowledge about balance.
And the raw numbers show a different story than this ridiculous QQ threads.
But it doesn’t matter what you say anyway, how many facts you list, since they only want Thief “to be nerfed into the ground” anyway, since they lost to a few that where simply better then they are.
You’re just…bad if you die to that combo without major CDs.
Immobilized? SB#5 or Shadowstep or Roll for Initiative. You are not using any of those?
Then you should have expected to be killed by that burst anytime.
It’s funny, thats what i think everytime i read a Backstab QQ thread.
so why are we still talking about this its getting nerfed everyone get over it and find a new build to go with GG simple jesus >.>
It’s balanced when you die to a 2s channel followed by a burst after being CC’d.
It’s not balanced when you die to a 0.3s burst straight up.
If someone can press Venom, Sigil, CnD, Steal, Walk around the target, backstab, HS, AA 1-2 times and stomp you in 0,3 seconds, then he probably deserves the kill, don’t you think (not that it is possible, but just saying, pretty impressive)?!
This “discussion” about backstab being OP is getting more and more ridiculous every day.
Next week: Thief killed me in -10 seconds.
In two weeks: I was dead for 10 minutes before the Thief that killed me even joined WvW.But hey, i feel ya – time travel IS a dangerous thing!
Dear lord, you guys can’t argue anything.
Yes, thieves will get hit while on stealth, yes people will use aoe, but good thieves? Good thieves won’t get it by it.
Which is as much as an argument as:
Yes, Thieves can avoid AoE’s while in stealth, yes, they still can dodge, but good players?
Good players will still hit them.Kindergarden arguments, really.
I wouldn’t even bother trying to reason with this guy. You’ll see him in EVERY QQ thread in this sub forum throwing around these made up numbers. This claim of doing 30k damage in 0.3s burst is pretty hilarious though… Where are those screenshots EasyModeX?
A warrior killed me yesterday. Used pin down (immobilization, may I note they can also knock you down using another weapon) rendering dodging useless and rooting me. He then swapped weapons shot me once using killshot doing around 9-10K which killed me in under 2 seconds. Warriors are capable of this kind of burst too, people just don’t realize it. I have the pictures to prove it and I asked the warrior. He was not full zerker.
2 seconds, eh? I think I’ve dropped one quicker than that with my guardian. I saw the thief coming and knew he was running a dagger ambush build. So, I laid down scepter #2 skill at my location, switch to greatsword and then used Symbol of Wrath and Whirling Wrath. Predictably the thief stealed himself over to me and begin to assault me as hard as possible. The thief was down before Whirling Wrath finished.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
I laugh when people call others out for what classes they play. I do play a thief (S/D) and I do play a warrior. I have played D/P, D/D, and S/D for the most part with a little experimenting with P/D. I know the ins and outs of most of the load outs and will admit I was wrong with the duration of Pistol whip (takes 2 seconds to fully complete all strikes). The fact of the matter is under hasted conditions you’re going to get 2x Pistol whips off to the warriors 1 100 blades making the damage just about equal. Outside of hasted conditions pistol whip has the utility of stunning and doing some damage which is excellent for stopping a rally compared to say, just Headshot which does pathetic damage. S/P has a hell of a lot more utility than a Greatsword does for a warrior and that’s a fact.
As for backstab as I said before the instantaneous nature of Mug+CnD+Backstab while still having enough initiative to heartseeker 3-4 times afterwards needs to be fixed. Avoiding that initial combo requires either an extremely well timed or lucky evade or the burning of a 60sec defensive cooldown. Lets not forget the thief can under most circumstances reenter stealth 3 seconds later or just bail with almost no consequence if the combo does fail. It really is a 100% reward with almost no risk scenario for the thief especially vs glassy opponents. I understand they should be easy to take down but getting insta-gibbed is not fun under any circumstance.
There are things I think that could be changed about pistol offhand (Such as black powder giving stealth possibly with a 2sec in the cloud with 1-2sec of movement outside like how refuge works). It allows pistol offhand thieves to actually make use of their stealth more reliably without the need to burn a utility to get into stealth. Essentially trading the dmg and vulnerability of CnD for a more on demand stealth+blind with SOME limitations that are less of a draw back for loadouts such as P/P which needs a stealth in my opinion. This should all be viable especially when stealth rendering gets worked out.
One thing I will say that needs to get changed with GS is the fact that Bladetrail has a tendancy to hit 4x at the beginning of the animation instead of being spread across the whole AoE which leads to getting hit with a ton of damage if they cast it right on top of you. I really don’t feel this is the way the ability was intended to function but who knows.