Guild Wars 2

Hello there folks – So, I’ve pushed my Thief up to level 20, tried out a little bit of sPvP, I’m starting to figure out how the class works, checking the forums and the build planners and such – but I’d like to get some advice on what I’m looking at in the future of my Thief, so I can prepare for my role closer to endgame…

1 – Group Role – part of my favorite activity in every MMO is group content – Mostly “Dungeons”, although I found the sPvP to be entertaining as well. Based on our whole skills selection (both weapons and utilities) it’s seeming to me like our group “support” role is very, very limited. We have almost no boon granting powers (can get a few traits that’ll group buff, but that’s about it), we have maybe 1 or 2 skills that create fields (mostly stealth fields, almost no combo fields), all of our heal skills appear to be primarily solo

so, when I find myself grouping in Dungeon content, knowing the importance of cross-class synergy (using combo fields, buffing allies, exploiting momentary boons, conditions and combo fields, etc) – I’m expecting that my role will be one of primarily exploitation – other people in my group are going to set up the fields, the boons and the conditions, and I’m going to be expected to use that short gap of time to maximize the situation they gave me…

is that true? is that how it’s going to work? or am I missing something about the nature/ability of the Thief class in a group dungeon setting?

2 – Trait Lines – It’s really hard sometimes to pick out which traitlines I want – I’ve mostly settled on maxing out the trickery line, as I prefer a dagger/dagger + shortbow build (I HATE pistols…firearms of any kind in a fantasy setting, really – not a criticism of their utility, it’s just an aesthetic hate) I prefer close combat, which means most of my builds are built around my daggers (sword and dagger is fun, as well, but read further)

I’m also starting to realize the inherent…fragility…of my Thief in hand to hand, so I’ve been focusing on skills that allow me lots of hit-and-run options, which means condition damages and bleeds, lots of dodges and quick heals, which is why daggers end up being a little more appealing than sword/dagger. This is why I’m rather enjoying the trickery line – also, thanks to lots of forum discussion, I’m starting to realize the overall importance of initiative, so I’ve been chasing down those traits and powers that refresh my initiative as often as possible

But I’m really quite torn as to where to put my other max traitline – so far, I’ve played sPvP with the acrobatics traitline maxed out – and it seemed to do well (I tend to place in the upper 50% of my team consistently, and as that was on my first pvp day, I think I was doing all right), but I’m also curious about the utility of the stealth line (I find most stealth powers on the Thief to be frustratingly limited, but it sounds like there can be a lot of power/versatility in there), the deadly arts line (at first, being “Thief”, I assumed maxing out crit chance wasn’t a half-bad idea, but I’m having a hard time seeing it pan out with that line – but again, I could be missing something) and more…

so, I’m wondering if folks could give me a breakdown of their experiences with some of the other traitlines, maybe point out what I might be missing, or under-appreciating (like Mug – I assumed it was a relatively minor damage add-on to stealing, but lots of reports make it sound like it does a LOT of damage – is that worth picking up?)

sPVP/WvW – I’ve only tried out a couple of hours of sPvP – I’ve played years of Battlefield and other team-based competitive games, so I’m familiar with the basic strategies and whatnot – I seemed to do all right, but without an in-game VOIP, I’m finding coordinating with my teammates to be both very difficult and a little frustrating – besides just jabbering at them until someone (hopefully) responds in a positive fashion, any advice on nudging your teammates in the direction of strategy?

Also, I haven’t yet tried out WvW, and had a few questions – I know that sPvP auto-adjusts you to level 80 with a nice outfit of gear, full skills and whatnot – I seem to remember reading the WvW does not quite as much – If I attempt WvW at level 20, will it auto adjust me with extra skills and such? or just up my basic dmg/hp and such? will I be a raging liability to my team if I attempt it without a larger skill selection? or can I still be relatively useful, once I figure out all the basic in’s and outs of WvW?

4 – sPvP cannons – ran into a small, very specific problem in the heart of the mists – the cannons wouldn’t let me use them – I can load them up with cannon balls, but when I “use” the cannon, I get a no-skill bar – only the option to leave – am I missing a 2nd step? or am I bugged do you think?

anyway, those are my questions for the moment – if anyone can help clue me in, I’d be appreciative

I’m in sort of a similar situation myself; hit level 45 and am looking to go try out a few dungeons.

I would strongly recommend Kirin’s thread – this is an excellent discussion of how a Thief can support in PvE, and I can see how that would then extend to support in PvP. Think of us more as de-buffers – stuff like perma-blind/weakness on NPC’s, or Shadow Refuge to save downed players – that thread really inspires me to make a PvE support focused thief.

As a level 80 thief experienced with endgame PvE, I can answer your first two questions.

In a group, a thief can play as DPS, or as support. My favorite for DPS is a condition damage oriented Death Blossom build, utilizing extensive initiative recovery, similar to the build you envision. Personally, I go for 30 Acrobatics, 20 Trickery, and 20 Critical Strikes.

The thing I love most about the thief is the synergy between traits. For example, here’s my build:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/en/?fYAQNAoYVlcmSOHcy5E+5ExmCfKUPFktrdPuqV1KA;TwAg1Cqo8x4jwHLMOYkwsKYEweh5CA

This build is focused on extreme mobility (in my opinion, one of the thief’s biggest strengths) and damage output, while also boasting exceptional survivability. Every time I dodge, I gain swiftness and might (might also increases condition damage). Dodging will also cost less endurance due to Acrobatics. You gain additional might through stealing, which also grants initiative, swiftness and fury. Your fury, in turn, will proc your critical hit initiative gain trait in Critical Strikes, allowing you to use Death Blossom more, giving you more evades and survivability. Critical Strikes traits will stack ridiculous amounts of might upon signet activation, increasing your damage output while also regaining initiative for more Death Blossoms. You have another dodge skill on your shortbow, meaning that you have a ridiculous amount of ways to stay alive.

If that wasn’t enough, Signet of Malice has insane synergy with Death Blossom and Dagger Storm. Death Blossom will heal me for at least 300 HP per mob hit, while Dagger Storm + Signet of Malice enables me to face hordes of enemies without losing any HP. Speaking of heals, you will be consuming initiative like no other, so the Acrobatics trait that heals on initiative use is a godsend. Synergy at its finest.

An alternative route you can go is dropping Acrobatics and going for Shadow Arts. In this sort of build, you utilize stealth for survivability and initiative recovery. Still very synergetic, but does not fit my fast-paced playstyle.

In summary, as a thief, you should almost never get hit, you should dish out a lot of damage, and you are able to heal back a lot of damage. You have a ranged option in your Shortbow set, which I’m sure you already know the power of. Though the Thief has many ways to recover initiative, it is impossible to spam Death Blossom forever. When you run out of initiative, you lose a significant amount of survivability, and in dungeons, you must fall back onto your ranged set. I normally will blow all my initiative, dodge roll away, fire off some Shortbow skills, and then go back into the fray. This leads me into the Thief’s supporting role in groups.

The thief has access to one of the best blast finishers in the game: Cluster Bomb. In addition, he gets a field to complement that: Choking Gas. Combining these two skills will create AoE weakness, which is VERY powerful in dungeons. The lack of cooldowns means that you have a spammable Blast Finisher, which is simply amazing. Rolling with a Guardian will mean constant AoE Might and Retaliation. A Ranger will enable you to heal your party in an area of effect. Elementalists will give you the ability to shield your entire team with Frost Armor, or grant AoE Swiftness. In addition, you will be using Death Blossom constantly, which also doubles as a Whirl Finisher. Combo Fields are an essential part of high level PvE that many seem to ignore, but they are also one of the most powerful mechanics parties can utilize.

Going back to the Dagger set for a moment, I’d like to point out that your Dancing Dagger skill is a multi-target cripple. In dungeon instances where kiting is basically mandatory, cripples do a lot to help your team.

In addition, Shadow Refuge, Smokescreen and Scorpion Wire are very useful utilities for a more support-oriented thief. With Shadow Refuge, you can revive downed players without fear of being attacked. Smokescreen will help your team immensely against ranged mobs and creates another field for your team to work with. Scorpion Wire is amazing in certain dungeons, as it allows you to pick apart harder groups one by one. Venom Sharing is also an amazing trait to use, as the damage output and CC it provides to your team is invaluable.

I answered your questions a bit out of order, but I tried to cover trait lines, survivability and group play.

@Fate: Awesome man! I’ve recently been hearing about how the shortbow is the better ranged compliment in a dungeon but haven’t used it in PvE much. Your reply is among one of the most detailed I’ve read and have me convinced on what my ranged option should be in a dungeon situation. Good job man, hats off!

Thieves can be extremely valuable in dungeons but they do provide the kind of support that seems to obviously fall into the support category the way a Guardian or Engineer does.

In a dungeon the Thief can perform any of the following roles (usually more than one actually).

1) Offensive Support. Thief is good at improving the offensive abilities of other party members. Thrill of the Crime trait provides powerful offensive group buffs on Stealing. Venomous Aura allows you to share your Venoms with the entire party. This can produce some INSANE results when used with Skale Venom to get everyone stacking Vulnerability.

2) Control. Thief has some amazing blinding, crippling, and weakening abilities that can make your enemies almost trivial to defeat. These abilities don’t work as well against bosses (due to Unshakable buff most of them have) but can still be absolutely crucial for controlling adds and summoned minions during boss fights.

3) Reviving. People go down during fights. They just do. If you can get them up again quickly and safely the fight will still be under control. Its only a wipe if nobody can revive them. Thief is great at reviving due to stealth. Shadow Refuge in particular is ideal for safe reviving. Its basically designed for that.

4) High Damage Attacker. Not all Thief builds have high dps in dungeon situations, but many do. Double Daggers condition damage can do extreme damage in dungeons with Death Blossom. You’ll have large stacks of high damage bleeds ticking on 2 or 3 opponents at once in the typical dungeon pull. You’ll probably be the highest damage throughput member of the whole party.

5) Rock Tosser! sound silly i know, but there are several dungeon encounters where the use of environmental weapons (like boulders to throw, or other similar things) is a major part of the fight. Thieves are inherently good at doing this because of the mobility offered by Infiltrator Shot, Shadowstep, and the ability to dodge alot.

I’m currently a level 63 Thief but have never been in any dungeons. However, I’m fairly experienced in PvP since I’ve spent quite a lot of time on sPvP.

What I can say about my thief is that.. I absolutely love it. The thief class is exactly what they should have always been. They are extremely delicate but deal insane amounts of pure burst damage accompanied by being an escape artist.

Their job is to stay in the sidelines and look for the weakest link before shadowstepping in and completely destroying that target in mere seconds followed by a nice escape back to the shadows to initiate the same strategy again.

I’ve had so many times where I would see some lone straggler come up to me thinking they can take me before I would move up to them using pre-casted Skale Venom, Basilisk Venom, Cloak and dagger to Steal then Signet of Power followed by a Backstab. 90% of the time, they will die instantly within 1 second. If they survive, a Heartseeker or even a couple of normal hits is enough to finish them off. You can dominate even Guardians and Warriors as if they were made of paper if done right!

Also, shadowstep is in my opinion the best escape tool I’ve come across. Not only does it teleport you twice, you can use it to play mind games and escape easily.

-Lar Langley