Guild Wars 2

Some thoughts:

- Unload (P/P) now shoots on the ground to knockback the thief out of the way. A little bit like the engineer rifle skill.

- Pistol Whip (S/P) is now usable while moving.

- Withdraw and Roll for Initiative are no longer evading the thief backwards. Instead, they let you evade in the direction you run. If standing still, you evade backwards like before.

Seezungenschleuder.8319:

- Withdraw and Roll for Initiative are no longer evading the thief backwards. Instead, they let you evade in the direction you run. If standing still, you evade backwards like before.

This would be a good change, right now a few people play with them because they are very situational.

Decked.8274:

Seezungenschleuder.8319:

- Withdraw and Roll for Initiative are no longer evading the thief backwards. Instead, they let you evade in the direction you run. If standing still, you evade backwards like before.

This would be a good change, right now a few people play with them because they are very situational.

Just make Withdraw and Roll of Initiative trigger the dodge related traits and you’re golden. And maybe throw in some condition removal.

make shadow shot 1200 range and maybe, just maybe it’d worth 4 init
steal should shadowstep as far as it could get you, not canceled
longer duration on swiftness from dodging will allow us to save up some endurance once we got there

1) Make Steal a Shadowstep, meaning that it gets a Shadow Return element, condition removal/stun-break or not.
2) Make any form of successful evade activate dodge-related traits eg. endurance gain/swiftness/might, including PW, WD, RFI, FS and others
3) Allow control over WD/RFI direction as mentioned

Problem is those are gap closers, not slippery get away abilities.

Daecollo.9578:

Problem is those are gap closers, not slippery get away abilities.

Being slippery and retreating are entirely different things.

Auesis.7301:

Daecollo.9578:

Problem is those are gap closers, not slippery get away abilities.

Being slippery and retreating are entirely different things.

Being slippery is being able to get in and out of situations quickly.

Brassnautilus.2941:

make shadow shot 1200 range and maybe, just maybe it’d worth 4 init
steal should shadowstep as far as it could get you, not canceled
longer duration on swiftness from dodging will allow us to save up some endurance once we got there

Stop kidding yourself. Look at all the teleports and leaps that we got, their ranges and initiative costs:

• Infiltrator’s Arrow, 900 range, 6 initiative
• Steal, 900 range (1200 traited), 0 initiative
• Infiltrator’s Strike, 600 range, 3 initiative
• Shadow Shot, 900 range, 4 initiative
• Heartseeker, 450 range, 3 initiative

Now let’s look at the range/initiative figures for each of those:

• Infiltrator’s arrow: 150 range/initiative
• Infiltrator’s Strike: 200 range/initiative
• Shadow Shot: 225 range/initiative
• Heartseeker: 150 range/initiative

So Shadow Shot already has the most range per initiative, plus it comes with a blind on the target.

And it’s not like we don’t have utilities with teleports.

Daecollo.9578:

Auesis.7301:

Daecollo.9578:

Problem is those are gap closers, not slippery get away abilities.

Being slippery and retreating are entirely different things.

Being slippery is being able to get in and out of situations quickly.

Being slippery means being hard to pin down, which is exactly what increased mobility/evasion does. On top of that, abilities I mention can be used to retreat. Shadow Return is a possible retreat. Controlling the direction of your RFI or WD can help your retreat etc.

Daecollo.9578:

Auesis.7301:

Daecollo.9578:

Problem is those are gap closers, not slippery get away abilities.

Being slippery and retreating are entirely different things.

Being slippery is being able to get in and out of situations quickly.

wrong subforum, you are clearly talking about the ele.

Olba.5376:

Now let’s look at the range/initiative figures for each of those:

• Infiltrator’s arrow: 150 range/initiative
• Infiltrator’s Strike: 200 range/initiative
• Shadow Shot: 225 range/initiative
• Heartseeker: 150 range/initiative

So Shadow Shot already has the most range per initiative, plus it comes with a blind on the target.

And it’s not like we don’t have utilities with teleports.

infiltrator arrow needs no target
infiltrator’s strike comes with shadow return which is a break stun and instant displacement
heartseeker is treated like a closer only by people who spams that stuff

shadowshot only moves yuo if you hit your target, and it isn’t a utility.

the only thing semi comparable with shadowshot on your list is steal, and that cost 0 init…

I wish that p/d 3rd skill was still teleporting you backward regardless of hitting something or not. Those were good times. It felt like assassin backdash in RO.

Olba.5376:

• Heartseeker, 450 range, 3 initiative

Don’t forget that Heartseeker moves further with speed boosts active (Signet of Shadows/Swiftness/Fleet Shadow) as it’s a leap rather than a Shadow Step.

Thus increasing it’s Range/initative and effectiveness as a gap closer (Unless Crippled/Chilled/Immobilised in which case it goes a shorter range making it less effective)

I’d like to see them reduce the recharge on Shadowstep by around 10 seconds, and increase the return duration to around 30 seconds.
Increase the window of opportunity to activate Shadow Trap after it’s been triggered.
Make Blinding Powder remove stun instead of Haste.
Change Body Shot to roll backward, dodging, then fire. Apply momentary Immobilize or Cripple instead of Vulnerability.
Reduce the base recharge on Steal to 40 seconds.
Change Last Refuge to instead grant Vigor while in stealth.

I think this would all go a long way toward improving mobility.

Grimwolf.7163:

I’d like to see them reduce the recharge on Shadowstep by around 10 seconds, and increase the return duration to around 30 seconds.
Increase the window of opportunity to activate Shadow Trap after it’s been triggered.
Make Blinding Powder remove stun instead of Haste.
Change Body Shot to roll backward, dodging, then fire. Apply momentary Immobilize or Cripple instead of Vulnerability.
Reduce the base recharge on Steal to 40 seconds.
Change Last Refuge to instead grant Vigor while in stealth.

I think this would all go a long way toward improving mobility.

Ele would still be better then thief

Shadowsteps should = teleport

As in teleporting, not running instantly and getting blocked by gaps/trees/rocks

That’d be a start. imagine how much more (actually) mobile we’d be is shadowsteps worked like they look like they should work rather than how they had to work for balance reasons in GW1

Biggest issue would be bypassing jumping puzzles, or porting inside a keep.

I like the idea of Withdraw and Roll for Initiative dodging in the direction you are moving. I’d also like to see Flanking Strike move to whichever side you are moving also, to add a little more unpredictability to it. So if you move left FS rolls left around your target instead of right. Having more control over the direction in which our skills move us would go a long way to help improve our tactical mobility, with regards to positioning.

In terms of speed of movement, I feel that only Pistol offhand and Sword are in need of real attention. Pistol could perhaps have a small leap back added to Headshot, while Sword’s Infiltrator’s Strike could do a, slightly shorter ranged, shadow step even without a target perhaps.

It may just end up being alterations to some traits, to provide more mobility for all weapons, such as swiftness on crits for example. I’m looking forward to seeing how they improve this.

“Thief mobility upcomming changes speculations”:
we will be able to fly

I would like to see they keep Withdraw the way it is. It takes practice to use to its fullest potential as a positioning tool and that’s just the way I like it.

The skill floor for Thieves is low enough as is. Please don’t also limit the skill ceiling.

As for mobility related changes, I’d definitely like to see the p/d dual skill returned to its former glory. Almost instant on-demand backward shadowstep was amazing as a mobility tool back when it still worked that way.

More access to swiftness would be nice as well. Right now our “burst” mobility is at a decent place, but in sustained mobility we simply can’t compete with ele’s without the 25% movespeed signet taking up a valuable utility slot.

if they let us move faster in stealth (with trait OOC speed perhaps?)
that’d help us land more of those precious backstabs aye?

Grimwolf.7163:

Biggest issue would be bypassing jumping puzzles, or porting inside a keep.

IMHO it should more of work like this: use pathfinding to find the shortest route to the target. If this route (not the straight one) is within the range of the skill, then shadowstep to the target. If it’s not, shadowste kitten et on cooldown for 2 seconds (as the current 4-5 seconds is quite punishing for not being able to tell the range of Steal). This would also require an increase in the Range of Shadowsteps (like +20%) but in the end the effective range would be the same in any non-flatland situations while being able to get to the target as long as it’s within reason, such is instead of walking around a small wall you could go around, you can just shadowstep to the target, In case of jumping puzzles and walls the pathfinding would report a failure, resulting in a balanced change.

Also, they’ll give us some kitty anti-bunker utility skills. We already have our utility skills pigeonholed, so it’d be a serious decision which skill to take out, but bunker eles and guardians are nearly impossible to take down without CnD spam for regen, which they will remove. The countermechanics are a good thing to have, but outplaying should be possible. But, back to the topic, I went off from mobility to utility.

Eles are a jack-of-all-trades, but they will be nerfed in every aspect a bit I think, as we should be the most mobile class, not them. Also I think we’ll get to see some improved CC removing effects on our dodges, since our best defense is our mobility. We get a nerf on our burst, but ANet wants to keep us being able to compete with other classes and remain a high-demand-high-cap class that can outplay most classes given enough skill. So the changes should impact beginners mostly, and the godlike thieves will find a way to compete with other classes.

And I really hope condition builds gets some more love. Those have the best mobility out there IMO, but condition damage is still lackluster, it needs more DPS but less uptime, and maybe some improvement on how bleeding stacks in a group. They say that if the bleeding cap would be on a /person basis, it would be too strong, but tell me that 4 power based characters bursting on you won’t instagib you. These would make our most mobile subclass more potential, and, given they said they want to improve both cond based builds and our mobility, these changes might actually see the light.

Brassnautilus.2941:

if they let us move faster in stealth (with trait OOC speed perhaps?)
that’d help us land more of those precious backstabs aye?

We already have a Trait for that, it’s up to 50%MS, I don’t think we need more than this. That would make Backstab seriously overpowered. There is a reason Shadowstep takes you out of stealth – landing BS should require at least some skill, and should be dodgeable if outplayed.

Brassnautilus.2941:

Olba.5376:

Now let’s look at the range/initiative figures for each of those:

• Infiltrator’s arrow: 150 range/initiative
• Infiltrator’s Strike: 200 range/initiative
• Shadow Shot: 225 range/initiative
• Heartseeker: 150 range/initiative

So Shadow Shot already has the most range per initiative, plus it comes with a blind on the target.

And it’s not like we don’t have utilities with teleports.

infiltrator arrow needs no target
infiltrator’s strike comes with shadow return which is a break stun and instant displacement
heartseeker is treated like a closer only by people who spams that stuff

shadowshot only moves yuo if you hit your target, and it isn’t a utility.

the only thing semi comparable with shadowshot on your list is steal, and that cost 0 init…

Shadow shot does solid damage, travels faster than Inf arrow, farther than IS, and blinds on hit.
It also generates a hit faster than HS if you’re close enough.
900 is a fine range for it.

Kanadaj.8510:

There is a reason Shadowstep takes you out of stealth – landing BS should require at least some skill, and should be dodgeable if outplayed.

Shadowstep does NOT take you out of stealth, its currently a bug thats been reported, you become visible to yourself, but are still in stealth (look at your buff icons) and can still perform stealth attacks, as it should be. They just need to fix the graphics error of not appearing to be in stealth to the player

Shemsu.8721:

Kanadaj.8510:

There is a reason Shadowstep takes you out of stealth – landing BS should require at least some skill, and should be dodgeable if outplayed.

Shadowstep does NOT take you out of stealth, its currently a bug thats been reported, you become visible to yourself, but are still in stealth (look at your buff icons) and can still perform stealth attacks, as it should be. They just need to fix the graphics error of not appearing to be in stealth to the player

True, my bad there.

I wish they at least made Shadow Trap work as a teleport instead of a regular shadowstep.

I was trying it out a while back after they updated the behavior, hoping that it might actually be useful now, but nope, still not usable at all for hopping between points due to irregular terrain.

Right now thieves only have 3 ways to get swiftness: Traited steal for 10 sec, traited on kill 4 sec, and traited on dodge 2 sec. I would like to see either more ways to get swiftness of a bit longer at a time. I don’t expect prema swiftness but a bit more would be nice. Also I’d say more ways to grant swiftness to your group but thats more of a wishful thinking then something I’d expect.

I am indeed curious what they plan on doing. A lot of the mobility of Elementalist comes from PBAoE – you can move around without taking the time of facing to fight your target. As a thief, you not only have to worry about facing of your character, but that of the enemy too – precious time to handle this eats into your mobility value. I know they are not going to consider that, but it is an item where I doubt thief will pass Ele in mobility unless they buff the Thief with sheer number of options that character facing is negated.

That said, a thief is pretty darn mobile – only the P/P lacks movement utility. Some possibilities I would like to see fix that:

Pistol 5 – “Black Powder” to generate a cloud at your location AND the target location. This can be shadow stepped between for the 4s duration with a 2s interaction delay. Brings the skill more in line with the cost it has, and provides a step of mobility and unpredictability to the x/P.

Pistol 3 – “Unload” – While unload is active, the skill becomes “On the Run” where you dodge in the direction your moving (or backwards standing still) at the cost of 1 or 2 init while you finish the unload. Allows for your total matrix moves you know we all want to do with P/P, and gives the build option the mobility it needs to counter the low HP/armor during a channel move.

As for other comments, having Withdraw and RoI count for dodge traits would be awesome.

Gamblit.5041:

In the Interview with Arenanet’s Dev, Jon Sharp said: " …you don’t have to bring Shortbow to every set to be mobile. We want the Thief out of everybody to be one of the most slippery classes, one of the most mobile classes, kinder like how Elementalist is … "

What could this mean? Which of the weapons set do you think they are talking about?

Looking at every possible weapon set we have right now, p/p come up as the only weapon set that has no mobility at all. What could be changed or added to p/p to make it on pair with a shortbow mobility?

Well, Thieves are being compared to Elementalist in terms of mobility and the only thing that comes to mind is that Thieves will have their own version of Ride the Lightning.

The lower the sun sets, the farther we can travel.

Thieves should do more damage during the Night Time.

Kaon.7192:

I wish they at least made Shadow Trap work as a teleport instead of a regular shadowstep.

I was trying it out a while back after they updated the behavior, hoping that it might actually be useful now, but nope, still not usable at all for hopping between points due to irregular terrain.

I think it used to work as a teleport, back on the launch’s days (and before the changes). I remember teleporting across Khylo, from Mansion to the Windmill. Could have been bugged, though…

Pistols need some mobilty so there might be an evade put in. I’d quite like to see a modification to infiltrator’s arrow since it is useful but oddly designed. The blind seems to suggest moving into melee range of enemies but we have enough gap closers already in the melee set. (I tend to nearly always use infiltrator’s arrow for escape or to reaching downed team mates).

Asomal.6453:

Kaon.7192:

I wish they at least made Shadow Trap work as a teleport instead of a regular shadowstep.

I was trying it out a while back after they updated the behavior, hoping that it might actually be useful now, but nope, still not usable at all for hopping between points due to irregular terrain.

I think it used to work as a teleport, back on the launch’s days (and before the changes). I remember teleporting across Khylo, from Mansion to the Windmill. Could have been bugged, though…

Maybe I should do a bit more testing on it. I’m completely in love with the way that Shadow Trap SHOULD work on paper since the last patch. But in practice it has been completely unreliable, which makes it completely unusable in a competitive context.

Shadow trap seems so cool…and then you put it in your bar.
“Why won’t this activate?”
“I can see them right there, how are they not stepping on it? Come on one more step”
“Dang it”
“Okay im gonna put it in this narrow stretch”
“Yes!”
“Why…did I not get warped to the guy?”
“This time for sure”
warp
“Oh snap aoe spam. Send me back!”