Guild Wars 2

Not sure where to post this, sorry if this is the wrong section. I mainly just do WvW and I’m finding it hard to see why thieves need such nerfs. Instead, maybe teach the other classes some tactics to use against us instead of just nerfing the class.

Other classes are easily on par, or superior to the thief in many aspects, the main thing other classes are good at is survivability. Why does a thief’s burst need to get nerfed when other classes can easily heal through it, stealth, or spam evasive maneuvers. Also, other classes can hit just as, if not harder than a thief. (12K killshot from warrior, 4-5K AoE hits from a guardian [like come the kitten on], elementalists have stun + spam invulnerability/evasive movement skills while burning you down with conditions and repeatedly healing themselves, mesmer can stealth and hardcore nuke with shatter, these are just a few situations off the top of my head) I’m fine with other classes being complete bullkitten in WvW, but stop nerfing thieves. Teach people how to deal with the class,. Stealth does barely anything, I often slay enemy thieves while they are stealthed by predicting their movement.

Welcome to the beliefs of 99% of the thief community. May I redirect you to the PvP section, where you can experience our latest news, including;
- Asura are OP
- Stealth is OP
- Classes that beat me are OP
- Thief is extremely weak, plz ban from our PvP
- Thieves OP
- Damage is OP

And more?

Kurojin.3495:

Stealth does barely anything

If you really believed this then you wouldn’t be posting on the forums to complain about it getting nerfed.

The thief is perfectly fine. Our burst damage is completely in line with other classes. Survivability isn’t an issue for us because of stealth, we are supposed to rinse light armor classes and one shot them. Without perma stealth it has got a bit more difficult so they should probably fix that so that no one can see us ever.

Waffler.1257:

Kurojin.3495:

Stealth does barely anything

If you really believed this then you wouldn’t be posting on the forums to complain about it getting nerfed.

What he’s saying is that it’s ridiculous to nerf an already weak mechanic.

Arganthium.5638:

Waffler.1257:

Kurojin.3495:

Stealth does barely anything

If you really believed this then you wouldn’t be posting on the forums to complain about it getting nerfed.

What he’s saying is that it’s ridiculous to nerf an already weak mechanic.

If you think stealth is a weak mechanic then you have no idea how to use it properly.

Waffler.1257:

Arganthium.5638:

Waffler.1257:

Kurojin.3495:

Stealth does barely anything

If you really believed this then you wouldn’t be posting on the forums to complain about it getting nerfed.

What he’s saying is that it’s ridiculous to nerf an already weak mechanic.

If you think stealth is a weak mechanic then you have no idea how to use it properly.

I didn’t say that. I just reiterated what he said.

I think stealth is very strong, but far from OP. On the other hand, the OP says that stealth is weak. I didn’t say “What I’m saying”, I said “What he’s saying”.

Arganthium.5638:

Waffler.1257:

Arganthium.5638:

Waffler.1257:

Kurojin.3495:

Stealth does barely anything

If you really believed this then you wouldn’t be posting on the forums to complain about it getting nerfed.

What he’s saying is that it’s ridiculous to nerf an already weak mechanic.

If you think stealth is a weak mechanic then you have no idea how to use it properly.

I didn’t say that. I just reiterated what he said.

I think stealth is very strong, but far from OP. On the other hand, the O kitten aying that stealth is weak. I didn’t say “What I’m saying”, I said “What he’s saying”.

I was using “you” in a general sense, not referring directly to you.

Stealth…weak? That may be the funniest thing I’ve read all day. Maybe in PvE it’s weak, but in WvW and PvP it’s pretty kitten powerful.

Waffler.1257:

Arganthium.5638:

Waffler.1257:

Arganthium.5638:

Waffler.1257:

Kurojin.3495:

Stealth does barely anything

If you really believed this then you wouldn’t be posting on the forums to complain about it getting nerfed.

What he’s saying is that it’s ridiculous to nerf an already weak mechanic.

If you think stealth is a weak mechanic then you have no idea how to use it properly.

I didn’t say that. I just reiterated what he said.

I think stealth is very strong, but far from OP. On the other hand, the O kitten aying that stealth is weak. I didn’t say “What I’m saying”, I said “What he’s saying”.

I was using “you” in a general sense, not referring directly to you.

Oh. Lol. Touché.

Either way, this is somewhat irrelevant. I think that the OP might be wrong in some regards, but that he’s right in saying that it is far from impossible to counter stealthed thieves.

My biggest problem is with backstab thiefs that stack zerker gear. Those players have no talent and being able to blow someone up with that tired old rotation followed by mashing 1 until the target is down shows it. No reason for CnD to hit for 5k no matter how much crit dmg you have, I could justify the 8k+ backstabs if CnD and the auto attacks didn’t hit as hard as they do. I personally find the Thief to be to easy a class to succeed with, which is why I take on groups of people solo with crap gear and a P/D condi build.

Parktou.4263:

My biggest problem is with backstab thiefs that stack zerker gear. Those players have no talent and being able to blow someone up with that tired old rotation followed by mashing 1 until the target is down shows it. No reason for CnD to hit for 5k no matter how much crit dmg you have, I could justify the 8k+ backstabs if CnD and the auto attacks didn’t hit as hard as they do. I personally find the Thief to be to easy a class to succeed with, which is why I take on groups of people solo with crap gear and a P/D condi build.

No talent? Do you even thief, brah?

Seriously though, do you have any concept of just how hard it often is to even get a successful backstab in the first place? I botch my attempts about 40%, due to moving target, AoE, the taget’s comrades, etc. It’s really one of those things where just about every possible variable in your current situation has to align in order for it to be a success. Most of all it really helps if your target is completely unwitting to your presence (which is difficult enough, cause people tend to auto-evade whenever they hear the tell-tale “poof” of a thief debuffing from stealth or the “ting” of daggers). Thief is easily the most hands-on precise profession ingame. True, they’re known for being able to shift up a fight at will, but once their burst is done, typically so are they.

My suggestion for anyone hating on the thief class is to play one. I have loads more respect for thief players now that I have. Especially for some of the really goods ones I’ve encountered in the past when I was still an anti-thief whiner myself.

Kurojin.3495:

Not sure where to post this, sorry if this is the wrong section. I mainly just do WvW and I’m finding it hard to see why thieves need such nerfs. Instead, maybe teach the other classes some tactics to use against us instead of just nerfing the class.

Other classes are easily on par, or superior to the thief in many aspects, the main thing other classes are good at is survivability. Why does a thief’s burst need to get nerfed when other classes can easily heal through it, stealth, or spam evasive maneuvers. Also, other classes can hit just as, if not harder than a thief. (12K killshot from warrior, 4-5K AoE hits from a guardian [like come the kitten on], elementalists have stun + spam invulnerability/evasive movement skills while burning you down with conditions and repeatedly healing themselves, mesmer can stealth and hardcore nuke with shatter, these are just a few situations off the top of my head) I’m fine with other classes being complete bullkitten in WvW, but stop nerfing thieves. Teach people how to deal with the class,. Stealth does barely anything, I often slay enemy thieves while they are stealthed by predicting their movement.

OK. Ranger. Totaly unblanced, loses to all others professions easy in WWW, where you dont supose to have a PvP build, dont’t know the staus in PvP, but I guess I will not find many rangers competing.
To the people taht say the others run from them in WWW I use to say “Roll a ranger like me, and no one will run from you”.
Do you know why GW2 don’t still have GvG? Because professions arn’t blanced, rangers at the top of the disgrace.

Not replying to the OP, just to everyone in general:

If you truly think the thief, or any class/build is OP and you just can’t figure out how to beat one, play one. I guarantee you will find players that know what to do against you, then, you learn from that what you should be doing to counter that build. The game requires some planning in advance, not just rolling your face on the keyboard, and complaining enough to get something nerfed when you get beat (which is what most gamers do, while still having the audacity to actually think they are any good at the game).

Waffler.1257:

Arganthium.5638:

Waffler.1257:

Kurojin.3495:

Stealth does barely anything

If you really believed this then you wouldn’t be posting on the forums to complain about it getting nerfed.

What he’s saying is that it’s ridiculous to nerf an already weak mechanic.

If you think stealth is a weak mechanic then you have no idea how to use it properly.

This true, stealth comes second best after invulnerability. It is great for an escape, eg; stealth then blink/shadowstep.

Stealth is also used to attack the enemy by complete suprise, where they won’t see them coming.

@OP, thieves are not weak. They have over 8 different ways to stealth. They have instant burst: Steal
and spammable burst: heartseeker, C&D.
they have the ultimately broken healing skill that removes conditions, heals, grants regen, and stealth.
and the shadow refuge is the most rediculous thing ever. only have to stay in it for 4s, you get 12s of stealth. And don’t say LTP, i know that I can knock them back or out of it, but those skills normally get blown during the fight.
OP, YOU are the one who needs to LTP an overpowered class.

Stealth is a broken mechanism.
Arena Net give nothing against it, it is a HUGE mistake. Thief and Menser can’t lose a one vs one, if they are losing -> Stealth -> They are no more losing.

GameRex.8735:

Stealth is a broken mechanism.
Arena Net give nothing against it, it is a HUGE mistake. Thief and Menser can’t lose a one vs one, if they are losing -> Stealth -> They are no more losing.

^ Stealth is a great idea, but it is far too overpowered. There are too many ways to stealth. You don’t get revealed if hit while in stealth.
This is BS.
Half the amount of stealths, and make it you pop out if hit.

After reading this post I decided to go mess around in sPvP with a thief again to see if they were really as bad as the OP says. Haven’t played a thief in 2-3 months and after a couple of games was still able to kill everyone in a couple of seconds and stealth my way out of any mess no matter how much I screwed up. Had the highest scores in the games I played by a large margin and even got someone to whisper me “l2p” after killing him multiple times effortlessly. Thieves have nothing to complain about.

Edit: Also tested out the perma-stealth build and it still works quite fine.

A thief just solo’d a champion and his crew at a tower. That, my friends, is broken. No class and no one person should be able to take that down, it should be designed to take a team of folks to do it.

Waffler.1257:

After reading this post I decided to go mess around in sPvP with a thief again to see if they were really as bad as the OP says. Haven’t played a thief in 2-3 months and after a couple of games was still able to kill everyone in a couple of seconds and stealth my way out of any mess no matter how much I screwed up. Had the highest scores in the games I played by a large margin and even got someone to whisper me “l2p” after killing him multiple times effortlessly. Thieves have nothing to complain about.

Edit: Also tested out the perma-stealth build and it still works quite fine.

Of course you did. Now prove it.

Waffler.1257:

After reading this post I decided to go mess around in sPvP with a thief again to see if they were really as bad as the OP says. Haven’t played a thief in 2-3 months and after a couple of games was still able to kill everyone in a couple of seconds and stealth my way out of any mess no matter how much I screwed up. Had the highest scores in the games I played by a large margin and even got someone to whisper me “l2p” after killing him multiple times effortlessly. Thieves have nothing to complain about.

Edit: Also tested out the perma-stealth build and it still works quite fine.

Typical empirical proof in these kinds of discussions: Someone can kill someone with something so that thing must obviously be OP.

GameRex.8735:

Stealth is a broken mechanism.
Arena Net give nothing against it, it is a HUGE mistake. Thief and Menser can’t lose a one vs one, if they are losing -> Stealth -> They are no more losing.

Pets/minions are a broken mechanics because they can get in the way of my attacks!

Stun and daze are broken because they can stop me from doing things!

Shadowstep/ride the lightning (and similar) are broken because I can’t keep up with those people!

Stability is a broken mechanic because my cc skills are all useless against them!

AoE attacks are broken because they can hit me when the enemy targeted someone else!

Ground targeted attacks are broken because they can hit me without line of sight!

Traps/turrets are broken because the enemy can just leave them there to attack me on their own!

Retaliation is broken because it punishes me for my enemy getting hit by my attacks!

Conditions are broken because they do damage after the fight ends, and they keep me in combat!

…do I need to go on?

One class having different mechanics from yours does not make them OP or UP simply because they may counter or be countered by what you can do. Every class need not necessarily be able to win a 1v1 against every other class, this is a team game, and some things will naturally counter others. Stealth, for example, has always countered clueless players, in every game.

I don’t even use much stealth on my mesmer because there are other things that benefit my build/playstyle more, and, on my thief, the stealth provides most of my survivability even though I don’t run a glass cannon build. When I play one of my other characters though, I have a general idea of where the thief/mesmer is while they are stealthed, what they are about to do, when they are gonna do it, and how to not die instantly to it. More experienced players than myself are still able to adapt to what I do and win most fights, less experienced players still make mistakes, and give me an opening to kill them if I execute my skills correctly.

Could they introduce a counter for stealth other than experience? Sure. Should at come at a cost? Absolutely. So, what are you willing to give up to make it balanced that you can counter the thieves’ stealth?

This is a counter at CC : Stability.
A counter at armor : condition
A counter at mobilty, at crazy dps, at …

At Stealth ? Time ?

The best counter to stealth also happens to be the best counter to everything else: experience. Go play a thief, and find some good players to fight against.

Kurojin.3495:

Not sure where to post this, sorry if this is the wrong section. I mainly just do WvW and I’m finding it hard to see why thieves need such nerfs. Instead, maybe teach the other classes some tactics to use against us instead of just nerfing the class.

Other classes are easily on par, or superior to the thief in many aspects, the main thing other classes are good at is survivability. Why does a thief’s burst need to get nerfed when other classes can easily heal through it, stealth, or spam evasive maneuvers. Also, other classes can hit just as, if not harder than a thief. (12K killshot from warrior, 4-5K AoE hits from a guardian [like come the kitten on], elementalists have stun + spam invulnerability/evasive movement skills while burning you down with conditions and repeatedly healing themselves, mesmer can stealth and hardcore nuke with shatter, these are just a few situations off the top of my head) I’m fine with other classes being complete bullkitten in WvW, but stop nerfing thieves. Teach people how to deal with the class,. Stealth does barely anything, I often slay enemy thieves while they are stealthed by predicting their movement.

L2P. Other classes. Then you will see why a good thief beats them. Good luck trying to get a 12k kill shot off on a thief.

Mighty Ice Arrow.9268:

OK. Ranger. Totaly unblanced, loses to all others professions easy in WWW, where you dont supose to have a PvP build, dont’t know the staus in PvP, but I guess I will not find many rangers competing.
To the people taht say the others run from them in WWW I use to say “Roll a ranger like me, and no one will run from you”.
Do you know why GW2 don’t still have GvG? Because professions arn’t blanced, rangers at the top of the disgrace.

Oh my.. No idea if you’re kidding here or are really absolutely talking kitten.. :p
I play Ranger as my main, and never had any issues with any opponent.. Ok, some will kill me (all classes), but I’ll also kill (also, all classes).

So, the fact that people don’t run from you, might be in how skillful you use your skills.. From the statement you made, I guess not at all..

GameRex.8735:

Stealth is a broken mechanism.
Arena Net give nothing against it, it is a HUGE mistake. Thief and Menser can’t lose a one vs one, if they are losing -> Stealth -> They are no more losing.

Running from a fight is losing the fight. The only difference with this is the winner does not get the bag at the end.

Gab Superstar.4059:

Waffler.1257:

After reading this post I decided to go mess around in sPvP with a thief again to see if they were really as bad as the OP says. Haven’t played a thief in 2-3 months and after a couple of games was still able to kill everyone in a couple of seconds and stealth my way out of any mess no matter how much I screwed up. Had the highest scores in the games I played by a large margin and even got someone to whisper me “l2p” after killing him multiple times effortlessly. Thieves have nothing to complain about.

Edit: Also tested out the perma-stealth build and it still works quite fine.

Typical empirical proof in these kinds of discussions: Someone can kill someone with something so that thing must obviously be OP.

Please point out where I said thieves were OP.

Almostfaceman.1804:

A thief just solo’d a champion and his crew at a tower. That, my friends, is broken. No class and no one person should be able to take that down, it should be designed to take a team of folks to do it.

What about the Elemental who can ride the lightning into the lords room in a tower without breaking down the wall or door and solo the champ and his minions. They should reduce the distance of RTL by half and nerf ele’s dps.

Waffler.1257:

Gab Superstar.4059:

Waffler.1257:

After reading this post I decided to go mess around in sPvP with a thief again to see if they were really as bad as the OP says. Haven’t played a thief in 2-3 months and after a couple of games was still able to kill everyone in a couple of seconds and stealth my way out of any mess no matter how much I screwed up. Had the highest scores in the games I played by a large margin and even got someone to whisper me “l2p” after killing him multiple times effortlessly. Thieves have nothing to complain about.

Edit: Also tested out the perma-stealth build and it still works quite fine.

Typical empirical proof in these kinds of discussions: Someone can kill someone with something so that thing must obviously be OP.

Please point out where I said thieves were OP.

Waffler is just pointing out how amazing he is. All bow to Waffler. ;P

Waffler.1257:

Gab Superstar.4059:

Waffler.1257:

After reading this post I decided to go mess around in sPvP with a thief again to see if they were really as bad as the OP says. Haven’t played a thief in 2-3 months and after a couple of games was still able to kill everyone in a couple of seconds and stealth my way out of any mess no matter how much I screwed up. Had the highest scores in the games I played by a large margin and even got someone to whisper me “l2p” after killing him multiple times effortlessly. Thieves have nothing to complain about.

Edit: Also tested out the perma-stealth build and it still works quite fine.

Typical empirical proof in these kinds of discussions: Someone can kill someone with something so that thing must obviously be OP.

Please point out where I said thieves were OP.

The whole post “suggested” Thief is OP and was obviously the point you were trying to make.

Tell me though, why is it that the sPvP leaderboards are mostly Guardians and Elementalists?

If Thief is so easy, why does it not dominate the leaderboards?

Jacklo.4230:

If Thief is so easy, why does it not dominate the leaderboards?

Probably because when in stealth you aren’t capping anything..

Kurojin.3495:

…Stealth does barely anything, I often slay enemy thieves while they are stealthed by predicting their movement.

Not sure if serious…

eithinan.9841:

Almostfaceman.1804:

A thief just solo’d a champion and his crew at a tower. That, my friends, is broken. No class and no one person should be able to take that down, it should be designed to take a team of folks to do it.

What about the Elemental who can ride the lightning into the lords room in a tower without breaking down the wall or door and solo the champ and his minions. They should reduce the distance of RTL by half and nerf ele’s dps.

Your point? That Anet is even more broken? Okay, fine. It’s even more broken. Not that I’ve ever done any of that on my elementalist.

I don’t care what anyone says, if you can’t see it and it can hit me first for huge damage, it’s OP. There’s no way I can counter something I can’t see. I won’t even play the class, ‘cause that’s too much of an advantage over someone else.

Tribio.8531:

Jacklo.4230:

If Thief is so easy, why does it not dominate the leaderboards?

Probably because when in stealth you aren’t capping anything..

Well ok, valid point, but look at the makeup of the teams competing in tournaments.
Are they overrun with thieves? Not at all, they are still a minority.

If they were so OP, other classes wouldn’t be capping anything because they’d be dead right?

Jacklo.4230:

Waffler.1257:

Gab Superstar.4059:

Waffler.1257:

After reading this post I decided to go mess around in sPvP with a thief again to see if they were really as bad as the OP says. Haven’t played a thief in 2-3 months and after a couple of games was still able to kill everyone in a couple of seconds and stealth my way out of any mess no matter how much I screwed up. Had the highest scores in the games I played by a large margin and even got someone to whisper me “l2p” after killing him multiple times effortlessly. Thieves have nothing to complain about.

Edit: Also tested out the perma-stealth build and it still works quite fine.

Typical empirical proof in these kinds of discussions: Someone can kill someone with something so that thing must obviously be OP.

Please point out where I said thieves were OP.

The whole post “suggested” Thief is OP and was obviously the point you were trying to make.

Tell me though, why is it that the sPvP leaderboards are mostly Guardians and Elementalists?

If Thief is so easy, why does it not dominate the leaderboards?

Okay, first off don’t tell me what points I’m trying to make when you don’t understand them. The OP posted about how weak thieves were, I said they are not weak and have nothing to complain about. Right now, thieves, eles, guards, and mesmers are all very solid classes and if someone posted about any of those classes being weak and underpowered I would give them the same response. Second, this is the WvW forum and the OP is discussing thieves in a WvW context. sPvP is a completely different game from WvW and using an imbalance in sPvP to justify a change to WvW balance is nonsense. When you are fighting other players in wide open areas where there is no capture objective, bunker type builds (which most guards and eles run in sPvP) lose a lot of their effectiveness.

Jacklo.4230:

Tribio.8531:

Jacklo.4230:

If Thief is so easy, why does it not dominate the leaderboards?

Probably because when in stealth you aren’t capping anything..

Well ok, valid point, but look at the makeup of the teams competing in tournaments.
Are they overrun with thieves? Not at all, they are still a minority.

If they were so OP, other classes wouldn’t be capping anything because they’d be dead right?

Do remember that this forum is about WvW, and not PvP.. Stealth in WvW is a real pain in the kitten.. You roam around solo, checking your surroundings constantly.. While all of a sudden you get hit from something with 5k dmg and it disappears again..

Also, as was mentioned: In PvP the ranks are dominated by Guardians (heavy armor + healing) and Ele (bunker builds?), so they can outlast a simple thief..

Tribio.8531:

Jacklo.4230:

Tribio.8531:

Jacklo.4230:

If Thief is so easy, why does it not dominate the leaderboards?

Probably because when in stealth you aren’t capping anything..

Well ok, valid point, but look at the makeup of the teams competing in tournaments.
Are they overrun with thieves? Not at all, they are still a minority.

If they were so OP, other classes wouldn’t be capping anything because they’d be dead right?

Do remember that this forum is about WvW, and not PvP.. Stealth in WvW is a real pain in the kitten.. You roam around solo, checking your surroundings constantly.. While all of a sudden you get hit from something with 5k dmg and it disappears again..

Also, as was mentioned: In PvP the ranks are dominated by Guardians (heavy armor + healing) and Ele (bunker builds?), so they can outlast a simple thief..

So it comes down to the build then?
Play WvW, kitten your toughness and vitality and you’ll suffer to high burst damage. Simples.

Seriously speaking now… I do not think Thief is so owerpowered… but I find it quite boring to fight thieves because of all those stealth skills… the hability to hide in plain sight is a little bit strange for me… I think it would be better to give them a long time invisible skill so they can move in stealth but after the first attack they should not be able to get invisible again untill they left attack mode… just my opinion.

DemonCow.5328:

The best counter to stealth also happens to be the best counter to everything else: experience. Go play a thief, and find some good players to fight against.

Or you can just get better at the profession you play now and continue to fight against thieves to get better. I understand that playing a role helps when fighting the same role because you know what they’re capable of, but I tend to be lazy and don’t feel like getting more toons to level 80. I agree with what you’re saying but playing the profession you’re comfortable with and practicing on that toon also helps a great deal.

When thief goes in stealth, I most of the time just pop my LB#5 and stand in the middle of it.. Is a tactic, proven efficient..

Almostfaceman.1804:

eithinan.9841:

Almostfaceman.1804:

A thief just solo’d a champion and his crew at a tower. That, my friends, is broken. No class and no one person should be able to take that down, it should be designed to take a team of folks to do it.

What about the Elemental who can ride the lightning into the lords room in a tower without breaking down the wall or door and solo the champ and his minions. They should reduce the distance of RTL by half and nerf ele’s dps.

Your point? That Anet is even more broken? Okay, fine. It’s even more broken. Not that I’ve ever done any of that on my elementalist.

I don’t care what anyone says, if you can’t see it and it can hit me first for huge damage, it’s OP. There’s no way I can counter something I can’t see. I won’t even play the class, ‘cause that’s too much of an advantage over someone else.

HAHAHAHAHA. So a thief backstabs you on your tank for lets say 1/3 of your HP’s. you still have more life than him(probably close to half again as much as he has). Learn to dodge roll. The only time a thief has ever landed a second hit on me after coming out of stealth is if he was using basilisk venom.
If you dont have heavy armor then invest in some toughness and you can get the same effect.

eithinan.9841:

Almostfaceman.1804:

eithinan.9841:

Almostfaceman.1804:

A thief just solo’d a champion and his crew at a tower. That, my friends, is broken. No class and no one person should be able to take that down, it should be designed to take a team of folks to do it.

What about the Elemental who can ride the lightning into the lords room in a tower without breaking down the wall or door and solo the champ and his minions. They should reduce the distance of RTL by half and nerf ele’s dps.

Your point? That Anet is even more broken? Okay, fine. It’s even more broken. Not that I’ve ever done any of that on my elementalist.

I don’t care what anyone says, if you can’t see it and it can hit me first for huge damage, it’s OP. There’s no way I can counter something I can’t see. I won’t even play the class, ‘cause that’s too much of an advantage over someone else.

HAHAHAHAHA. So a thief backstabs you on your tank for lets say 1/3 of your HP’s. you still have more life than him(probably close to half again as much as he has). Learn to dodge roll. The only time a thief has ever landed a second hit on me after coming out of stealth is if he was using basilisk venom.
If you dont have heavy armor then invest in some toughness and you can get the same effect.

You got to understand that endurance regenerates pretty slowly and you can at most dodgeroll a couple of times, while the thieves can conserve their initiative while in stealth, then back stabbing for no initiative. Having played warriors for a long time, alot of thieves i encounter, the only thing i could do was, wildy slash and hack the air, while the thieves appear again only to backstab and disappear. 2 dodgerolls aint enough for the backstabbing from thieves, which bring down tanks easily. the time between backstabs are too short for warriors to recover endurance, not to mention, healing skill cooldown, which is much longer like 25 seconds to 30, whereas thieves initiative go back up quickly from CnD in like 5 seconds.

Kim.5640:

eithinan.9841:

Almostfaceman.1804:

eithinan.9841:

Almostfaceman.1804:

A thief just solo’d a champion and his crew at a tower. That, my friends, is broken. No class and no one person should be able to take that down, it should be designed to take a team of folks to do it.

What about the Elemental who can ride the lightning into the lords room in a tower without breaking down the wall or door and solo the champ and his minions. They should reduce the distance of RTL by half and nerf ele’s dps.

Your point? That Anet is even more broken? Okay, fine. It’s even more broken. Not that I’ve ever done any of that on my elementalist.

I don’t care what anyone says, if you can’t see it and it can hit me first for huge damage, it’s OP. There’s no way I can counter something I can’t see. I won’t even play the class, ‘cause that’s too much of an advantage over someone else.

HAHAHAHAHA. So a thief backstabs you on your tank for lets say 1/3 of your HP’s. you still have more life than him(probably close to half again as much as he has). Learn to dodge roll. The only time a thief has ever landed a second hit on me after coming out of stealth is if he was using basilisk venom.
If you dont have heavy armor then invest in some toughness and you can get the same effect.

You got to understand that endurance regenerates pretty slowly and you can at most dodgeroll a couple of times, while the thieves can conserve their initiative while in stealth, then back stabbing for no initiative. Having played warriors for a long time, alot of thieves i encounter, the only thing i could do was, wildy slash and hack the air, while the thieves appear again only to backstab and disappear. 2 dodgerolls aint enough for the backstabbing from thieves, which bring down tanks easily. the time between backstabs are too short for warriors to recover endurance, not to mention, healing skill cooldown, which is much longer like 25 seconds to 30, whereas thieves initiative go back up quickly from CnD in like 5 seconds.

I’m not very familiar to all of the classes but I’ve seen every type of class kill a burst thief or whatever they’re called. Obviously cooldowns suck but if you have enough experience, you can kill whoever. I’ve never played warrior but I’ve heard how beastly their cc is. How about right after a thieves first hit or even before they hit you, stun them and kill them. Like I said before I don’t know the details of all classes but I feel like you can come up with at least one way to kill any profession.

Sadly this is exactly the same as what happened to Rogues in Wow.

They were OP in vanilla and got nerfed to the floor for evermore after that. The main reason people always scream that Thieves/Rogues r O kitten imply because they REMEMBER when they got killed by one.

To explain in more detail… if a player did WvW for 2 hours and they died 20 times and he was killed once by a thief i bet u my house… that they remember the 1 time they were killed by the Thief with the most venom and misery!!!!

The truth is that players dont die to Thieves anymore than any other class, its just they remember the 1 encounter they came up 1v1 against a Thief and got owned. they also remember how helpless they felt and how they couldnt do much against them… and thats simply down to the class being annoying as hell.

The point is that Thief is designed to come out of nowhere and surprise its enemy and take u down fast and then run and hide… thats the point kitten /p>

Thieves r meant to initiate the attack to win… if they get caught out of stealth and an enemy opens on them then theyre kinda screwed…

Rogues ended up the most hated class in Wow, they became the least played class by a large margin too, they received the least love by the devs and were basically left to rot (a bit harsh but still true). Lets hope that Thieves dont go the same way in GW2

Almostfaceman.1804:

A thief just solo’d a champion and his crew at a tower. That, my friends, is broken. No class and no one person should be able to take that down, it should be designed to take a team of folks to do it.

Necros and warriors can solo them too. I have also heard that guardians can as well

KStudios.2850:

Parktou.4263:

My biggest problem is with backstab thiefs that stack zerker gear. Those players have no talent and being able to blow someone up with that tired old rotation followed by mashing 1 until the target is down shows it. No reason for CnD to hit for 5k no matter how much crit dmg you have, I could justify the 8k+ backstabs if CnD and the auto attacks didn’t hit as hard as they do. I personally find the Thief to be to easy a class to succeed with, which is why I take on groups of people solo with crap gear and a P/D condi build.

No talent? Do you even thief, brah?

Seriously though, do you have any concept of just how hard it often is to even get a successful backstab in the first place? I botch my attempts about 40%, due to moving target, AoE, the taget’s comrades, etc. It’s really one of those things where just about every possible variable in your current situation has to align in order for it to be a success. Most of all it really helps if your target is completely unwitting to your presence (which is difficult enough, cause people tend to auto-evade whenever they hear the tell-tale “poof” of a thief debuffing from stealth or the “ting” of daggers). Thief is easily the most hands-on precise profession ingame. True, they’re known for being able to shift up a fight at will, but once their burst is done, typically so are they.

My suggestion for anyone hating on the thief class is to play one. I have loads more respect for thief players now that I have. Especially for some of the really goods ones I’ve encountered in the past when I was still an anti-thief whiner myself.

lol Yes, I do thief….Brah. If your having that hard a time landing backstabs and surviving beyond the first one, then that sounds like a you problem to me, perhaps you just need to be more patient and stop spamming your rotation as soon as it’s up. I run no toughness on my thief and I survive fighting groups of 80s on a nightly basis. It takes no skill to mash the same rotation when it’s up, I stand by that despite your ignorant reply. Furthermore, if you can’t seem to survive fights on your thief regardless of your build/opponents then you are probably playing the wrong profession.

@endemonadia I agree with u. They overnerfed thieves in wow because of the complains, and I think u got some reason at this point. U always remember when a thief kills u.
I have a single complain fighting thieves in WvW, which is they can vanish too often. Sometimes they kill me, like every1 can kill, and its ok, but i hardly can kill a thief, because they always stealth at 30% health or around it. Sometimes 2 or 3 times in a short lapse.
IMHO the only nerf needed to this could be a larger cooldown, 1s more or 2s, or some limitation to go stealth during a fight. In wow it was Ok since rogues could go stealth during fights 1 time, with 5 min cooldown (as can I remember).

thayes.4851:

The thief is perfectly fine. Our burst damage is completely in line with other classes. Survivability isn’t an issue for us because of stealth, we are supposed to rinse light armor classes and one shot them. Without perma stealth it has got a bit more difficult so they should probably fix that so that no one can see us ever.

10k backstabs from a 18k HP pool
1.5k toughness

Are you high?

Kim.5640:

eithinan.9841:

Almostfaceman.1804:

eithinan.9841:

Almostfaceman.1804:

A thief just solo’d a champion and his crew at a tower. That, my friends, is broken. No class and no one person should be able to take that down, it should be designed to take a team of folks to do it.

What about the Elemental who can ride the lightning into the lords room in a tower without breaking down the wall or door and solo the champ and his minions. They should reduce the distance of RTL by half and nerf ele’s dps.

Your point? That Anet is even more broken? Okay, fine. It’s even more broken. Not that I’ve ever done any of that on my elementalist.

I don’t care what anyone says, if you can’t see it and it can hit me first for huge damage, it’s OP. There’s no way I can counter something I can’t see. I won’t even play the class, ‘cause that’s too much of an advantage over someone else.

HAHAHAHAHA. So a thief backstabs you on your tank for lets say 1/3 of your HP’s. you still have more life than him(probably close to half again as much as he has). Learn to dodge roll. The only time a thief has ever landed a second hit on me after coming out of stealth is if he was using basilisk venom.
If you dont have heavy armor then invest in some toughness and you can get the same effect.

You got to understand that endurance regenerates pretty slowly and you can at most dodgeroll a couple of times, while the thieves can conserve their initiative while in stealth, then back stabbing for no initiative. Having played warriors for a long time, alot of thieves i encounter, the only thing i could do was, wildy slash and hack the air, while the thieves appear again only to backstab and disappear. 2 dodgerolls aint enough for the backstabbing from thieves, which bring down tanks easily. the time between backstabs are too short for warriors to recover endurance, not to mention, healing skill cooldown, which is much longer like 25 seconds to 30, whereas thieves initiative go back up quickly from CnD in like 5 seconds.

HAHAHAHAHA, Ill take this one a point by point.
1. Do you really think I dont understand the endurance and dodge roll mechanics?
2. " the only thing i could do was, wildy slash and hack the air, while the thieves appear again only to backstab and disappear." L2P, seriously.
3. Backstabs have at least a 5 second cooldown, without any repositioning due to revealed debuff. That CD should get you at least untraited 3 dodge rolls.
4.If you dodge roll or cc a C&D you have wasted half the thiefs initiative pool on most builds.
5.l2p,l2p,l2p…..

I have been 1 shotted by zerker 100B warriors even after I popped stealth. Stealth is not invulnerability.