Guild Wars 2

In my opinion the thief is now the weakest character in the game, it has less health and less damage , it has the weakest crowd control options, 1 skill that has a 1200 range, etc.. But what is really ticking me off about these changes is now I have to completly change my build which means new armour and more gold I don’t have.

You can thank the Warriors and Elementalists for all their QQ about how OP you are and the subsequent nerfs to Thief.

Really? Thieves are fine.

What build got nerfed into uselessness in PvE/WvW? None that I can think of.

Thieves are fine imo. We have the best mobility in the game, so imo we shouldn’t have the best AoE. Short Bow and some of our AoE ults is fine. The weakest weapon set we have right now is sword/dagger other than that some builds that involve with daggers and pistols needs to be tweaked. We also present the highest burst dmg in the game. Which I also agree we should keep since we are almost always fragile. I just don’t agree with Extremely high damage that players cant see coming. In many cases we are still valuable in taking out High defense classes in tpvp with roaming to take other points and be able to do high burst dmg in PvE.

I don’t think we have any reason to complain.

Jefzor.7145:

I don’t think we have any reason to complain.

Yea, I agree. I think that Thieves are fine right now and you shouldn’t see a thief complain, unless it is about potential nerfs that the herd is whining about.

I would however like to see some other builds get more of a buff in order to create some build diversity, but our foundation is perfectly fine and people just need to learn to play their professions before crying nerf nerf nerf.

The only thing I’d agree with here is a slightly tweaked health pool, for the better. Aside from that the Thief class is fine. If you want to be OP roll a Warrior…I’m not saying Warriors don’t work for it, just they can dps like us with much more armor and hp.

Warrior’s have that equal Burst and better Sustained DPS, along with more health, better armor and more survivability Utilities.

I do better in TPvP and SPvP on my warrior. So easy mode compared to the Thief. I laugh at Thieves that attack me.

Jefzor.7145:

I don’t think we have any reason to complain.

What an asinine comment.

We don’t have any reason TO NOT complain.

S/D is sub par
D/P is sub par
P/P is subpar

The only way to play the thief in competitive environment is D/D or P/D loltrops/venom share and S/P or D/D glass cannon.

Basically, 3/7 of our weapon sets are totally worthless, and overall we have something like 2-3 viable builds , with only 3 viable playstyles.

We have inherent design flaws in traits ( too much scaling on 1st-2nd tier traits making our viable builds too strong, and any other build too weak, bad traits everywhere), skills ( shadow shot, flanking strike, vital strike being slower than it should, body shot etc etc ), utilities ( traps and some signets) and EVEN THE DESIGN PHYLOSOPHY ( “thieves are masters of burst”, making basically any other set meant for direct damage unviable in high end PvP, because it would not “benefit” thief design).

We have one of the most bland “mechanic” in game ( Steal), untraited, while by simply putting 10 traits into Deadly arts you obtain one of the most OP thing ever seen in MMO history ( istant 900 range gap closer, can be used mid-cast, 4-5 k istant damage against 2-2.3 k armor).

Should i go on ?

If you like to be pigeon holed into 2 ways to play your profession, and are happy with it, maybe you should start to think that there are other players who’d like to have a more versatile profession, capable to do something more than simply “lol instagibbing” and “lulz caltropz evrywer”.

Mrbig.8019:

Jefzor.7145:

I don’t think we have any reason to complain.

What an asinine comment.

We don’t have any reason TO NOT complain.

S/D is sub par
D/P is sub par
P/P is subpar

The only way to play the thief in competitive environment is D/D or P/D loltrops/venom share and S/P or D/D glass cannon.

Basically, 3/7 of our weapon sets are totally worthless, and overall we have something like 2-3 viable builds , with only 3 viable playstyles.

We have inherent design flaws in traits ( too much scaling on 1st-2nd tier traits making our viable builds too strong, and any other build too weak, bad traits everywhere), skills ( shadow shot, flanking strike, vital strike being slower than it should, body shot etc etc ), utilities ( traps and some signets) and EVEN THE DESIGN PHYLOSOPHY ( “thieves are masters of burst”, making basically any other set meant for direct damage unviable in high end PvP, because it would not “benefit” thief design).

We have one of the most bland “mechanic” in game ( Steal), untraited, while by simply putting 10 traits into Deadly arts you obtain one of the most OP thing ever seen in MMO history ( istant 900 range gap closer, can be used mid-cast, 4-5 k istant damage against 2-2.3 k armor).

Should i go on ?

If you like to be pigeon holed into 2 ways to play your profession, and are happy with it, maybe you should start to think that there are other players who’d like to have a more versatile profession, capable to do something more than simply “lol instagibbing” and “lulz caltropz evrywer”.

But I like Caltrops. I help keep cobblers in business. That is a dying profession btw, someone needs to help and Obama isn’t.

I will take my thanks in the forum of Gold to my character.

The whole purpose is to balance the professions. Well there are now three dominate proffesions mesmer, ele and warrior. Ele are the most mobile with endless combinations and conditions, warrior highest dps and health, and well mesmers need i say more. But I really don’t care about that I have all 3 above charcters and iam easily adaptable. I will play with the stongest character, what really annoys me is i have bought specific weapons sets and runes for each charcter focussing on optimal builds and because of the nerfs will now need to completly buy new armour. Its dam frustrating.

Btw i’m wondering how many above people really play a thief. Or Just trolling for their other characters?

Yoda.9428:

Btw i’m wondering how many above people really play a thief. Or Just trolling for their other characters?

Believe it or not, there are just as many dumb thieves as there are dumb warriors and elementalists that believe thief is OP or imbalanced.

Sadly most of the smart and good players don’t waste their time on the forums because of all the whining. They instead play and adapt and become better players. While the dregs come in here and cry, “This profession killed me, so it must be OP!”.

The only reason I am on the forums is:

1. Entertainment for my long and boring workday. (Some of these people have me laughing in my office, so much so. My co-workers think I am insane.)

2. To see what else people can complain about.

3. Help people that ACTUALLY want to listen and get better.

I play a thief and I do not approve of this thread. The OP didn’t even state his build and what and why he was changing it. Scorpion Wire is still bugged regardless if it’s 900 or 1200 range. It’s broke. Crowd Control for thief = spamming cnd when it comes up without attacking anyone to confuse the enemy. Maybe you should get 50% stealth speed and shadow rejuv so you can stay in stealth and heal and move fast…

Yoda.9428:

The whole purpose is to balance the professions. Well there are now three dominate proffesions mesmer, ele and warrior. Ele are the most mobile with endless combinations and conditions, warrior highest dps and health, and well mesmers need i say more. But I really don’t care about that I have all 3 above charcters and iam easily adaptable. I will play with the stongest character, what really annoys me is i have bought specific weapons sets and runes for each charcter focussing on optimal builds and because of the nerfs will now need to completly buy new armour. Its dam frustrating.

Warrior top profession ? WUT ?

the top proffs are mesmer guard ele necro and thief.

Altough the thief is on the very strong side, it applies only to 2-3 builds.

Other weapon sets and traits/builds are totally worthless.

That’s the only thing i’m complaining about.

Then there’s an opportunity cost which is completly the point, I have to give up one thing to get another., which in turn throws out the entirety of my build. Oh you play a thief how wonderful, tell me how you feel you are important to approve or disapporve posts?

S/D is not sub par lol. It just takes a bit more practice to master than other builds.

Mrbig.8019:

Warrior top profession ? WUT ?

the top proffs are mesmer guard ele necro and thief.

Warriors used to be number one. Since the whirl skill “fix” warriors and guardians are easier to deal with.

Warriors and guardians were basically killing anything in thier paths using those whirl skills that hit for exponential amount of times instead of just like 2 times.

Top profession is probably elementalist if played right to me. Hard class to learn though but not impossible.

Yoda.9428:

In my opinion the thief is now the weakest character in the game, it has less health and less damage , it has the weakest crowd control options, 1 skill that has a 1200 range, etc.. But what is really ticking me off about these changes is now I have to completly change my build which means new armour and more gold I don’t have.

As everyone has been saying, thieves are doing alright at the moment.

Adaneshade.2409:

S/D is not sub par lol. It just takes a bit more practice to master than other builds.

it’s subpar by a long shot after the nerf to OH dagger and tactical strike .

now to obtain the same damage you had before, you need glass cannon stats , so you ’re better off with double daggers. you have to think about roles in tPvP, and S/D currently has no role in serious play, while pre -nerf we had at least 2 viable S/D builds in tPVP.

lSimply cause you can kill stuff with a random build,it doesn ’t mean it ’s viable, otherwise minionmancers would be viable (and guess what? they aren ’t)

Mrbig.8019:

Jefzor.7145:

I don’t think we have any reason to complain.

What an asinine comment.

We don’t have any reason TO NOT complain.

S/D is sub par
D/P is sub par
P/P is subpar

The only way to play the thief in competitive environment is D/D or P/D loltrops/venom share and S/P or D/D glass cannon.

Basically, 3/7 of our weapon sets are totally worthless, and overall we have something like 2-3 viable builds , with only 3 viable playstyles.

We have inherent design flaws in traits ( too much scaling on 1st-2nd tier traits making our viable builds too strong, and any other build too weak, bad traits everywhere), skills ( shadow shot, flanking strike, vital strike being slower than it should, body shot etc etc ), utilities ( traps and some signets) and EVEN THE DESIGN PHYLOSOPHY ( “thieves are masters of burst”, making basically any other set meant for direct damage unviable in high end PvP, because it would not “benefit” thief design).

We have one of the most bland “mechanic” in game ( Steal), untraited, while by simply putting 10 traits into Deadly arts you obtain one of the most OP thing ever seen in MMO history ( istant 900 range gap closer, can be used mid-cast, 4-5 k istant damage against 2-2.3 k armor).

Should i go on ?

If you like to be pigeon holed into 2 ways to play your profession, and are happy with it, maybe you should start to think that there are other players who’d like to have a more versatile profession, capable to do something more than simply “lol instagibbing” and “lulz caltropz evrywer”.

OK then, we have a lot of useless stuff. But those that use the pigeon-hole builds are more than viable. I personally don’t mind it, doesn’t make much difference to me whether my character is swinging a sword or a dagger.

I simply meant to disagree with OP’s description of how we’re all weak. (and to be fair, I want a dancing dagger buff)

Jefzor.7145:

Mrbig.8019:

Jefzor.7145:

I don’t think we have any reason to complain.

What an asinine comment.

We don’t have any reason TO NOT complain.

S/D is sub par
D/P is sub par
P/P is subpar

The only way to play the thief in competitive environment is D/D or P/D loltrops/venom share and S/P or D/D glass cannon.

Basically, 3/7 of our weapon sets are totally worthless, and overall we have something like 2-3 viable builds , with only 3 viable playstyles.

We have inherent design flaws in traits ( too much scaling on 1st-2nd tier traits making our viable builds too strong, and any other build too weak, bad traits everywhere), skills ( shadow shot, flanking strike, vital strike being slower than it should, body shot etc etc ), utilities ( traps and some signets) and EVEN THE DESIGN PHYLOSOPHY ( “thieves are masters of burst”, making basically any other set meant for direct damage unviable in high end PvP, because it would not “benefit” thief design).

We have one of the most bland “mechanic” in game ( Steal), untraited, while by simply putting 10 traits into Deadly arts you obtain one of the most OP thing ever seen in MMO history ( istant 900 range gap closer, can be used mid-cast, 4-5 k istant damage against 2-2.3 k armor).

Should i go on ?

If you like to be pigeon holed into 2 ways to play your profession, and are happy with it, maybe you should start to think that there are other players who’d like to have a more versatile profession, capable to do something more than simply “lol instagibbing” and “lulz caltropz evrywer”.

OK then, we have a lot of useless stuff. But those that use the pigeon-hole builds are more than viable. I personally don’t mind it, doesn’t make much difference to me whether my character is swinging a sword or a dagger.

I simply meant to disagree with OP’s description of how we’re all weak. (and to be fair, I want a dancing dagger buff)

Infact we’re not weak at all, but by we’re absolutely not well rounded at all.

We have 2-3 overperforming builds for a conquest mode type ( great harasser and heavy burst with high mobility) but currently, we’re not able to do anything else, like if our other weaponsets were put there as an afterthought.

3/7 of our weapon choice is totally sub-par, we have no real options to choose: this means the class is not balanced.

So we have tons of reasons to complain. I would like to play like aNet sposonsorized: “bring the player, not the build”.

False advertisement, nothing else.

Been running dungeons just fine here as a Glass Cannon Lifesteal build. In fact just about every run I do people comment about how fast and easy it was.

If you are feeling weak as a Thief, you should take some time to reevaluate your build/gear choices. The nerfs that have hit us were necessary, they in no turned us into “bottom feeders”.

I’d like to argue that sword/dagger is far from UP Infact if that is the standard of our weakest then Thief is Miles ahead of Ranger and Engineer, okay the 3 ability Flanking strike is not perfect but is kitten one of the most powerful abilities a thief has when the first part hits. Boon removal Turns tides fast I’ve slaughtered many a guardian/ elementalist because of that one move alone.

Cloaking Dagger + Tatical Strike up to a 3 second daze played right. mention Sword abilities alone Auto attack on a berseker build does 5k damage/Auto attack Chain around 3k base, 8k with Crits. in a 2 1/2 second period.

Still lets not forget Infiltraters strike/Return and Dancing dagger still makes a great Cripple.

TlDR Sword Dagger does awesome damage and great Utilitie that rivals the tops of other classes. one thing to say this is far more prevailent and succesfull in The WvW than Tpvp. even in Tpvp it can make a great Bunker Counter when played well and specced to remove conditions weapon Sigil and bountifull steal Trait.

oh and Dagger/Pistol may be UP combat wise but you’ll never see one go by they have by far the best gimick in the game the ability to pull of perma stealth.

thief is only subpar if your ability to play thief is subpar.

if you are good you destroy everything, if you are bad you suck at everything, this is the mmo “rogue /thief / assasin” you do need high skill to fight GOOD PLAYERS, any moron can roll a thief and destroy another moron.

yes some areas needs alot of work (P/P) but we will get there. thankfully most of the nerfs only apply to sPvP/tPvP and not applyed to pve or WvW

Plaxy.4617:

oh and Dagger/Pistol may be UP combat wise but you’ll never see one go by they have by far the best gimick in the game the ability to pull of perma stealth.

You can do that on any thief with 15 points in Shadow Arts and shortbow which is mendatory (imo) anyway.

The thief to be great at it has a high curve but to be good and kill the vast majority of players you come in contact with is by far the easiest to play. You can essentially kill most people with just Steal,cloak and dagger, bs with just those 3 skills most are downed. IF that didn’t do it by all means start pressing 2,2,2. If anyone disputes how easy this class is to kill the vast majority of the population in this game you are kidding yourself. Anet does not have stupid people working for them IMO if thiefs get anything it will be nerfs. No class should be able to hit steal for 4 to 6k than hit cloak and dagger followed by a 10 to 12k bs. And have the option to leave if you so choose via multiple ways. The fact you have people on these boards complaining that thief needs buffs is laughable.

Plaxy.4617:

I’d like to argue that sword/dagger is far from UP Infact if that is the standard of our weakest then Thief is Miles ahead of Ranger and Engineer, okay the 3 ability Flanking strike is not perfect but is kitten one of the most powerful abilities a thief has when the first part hits. Boon removal Turns tides fast I’ve slaughtered many a guardian/ elementalist because of that one move alone.

Cloaking Dagger + Tatical Strike up to a 3 second daze played right. mention Sword abilities alone Auto attack on a berseker build does 5k damage/Auto attack Chain around 3k base, 8k with Crits. in a 2 1/2 second period.

Still lets not forget Infiltraters strike/Return and Dancing dagger still makes a great Cripple.

TlDR Sword Dagger does awesome damage and great Utilitie that rivals the tops of other classes. one thing to say this is far more prevailent and succesfull in The WvW than Tpvp. even in Tpvp it can make a great Bunker Counter when played well and specced to remove conditions weapon Sigil and bountifull steal Trait.

oh and Dagger/Pistol may be UP combat wise but you’ll never see one go by they have by far the best gimick in the game the ability to pull of perma stealth.

That’s in PvE.
In PvP, tactical strike’s daze will last 2 secs max, C&D damage is nerfed by 33 % and your main damage combo ( C&D + tactical strike) is nerfed to dust.

Actually FS does really nice damage ( quite like a Backstab from behind) but it’s totally unreliable, altough you can move during the second strike, and the evade is not lasting the whole animation time, like Death Blossom ( so you’ll be beaten more than you can beat).

S/D has no practical use in tPvP after the nerf, while it was a nice direct damage alternative to the D/D glass cannon crap.

aNet is not promoting build diversity at all, and the thief is one of the classes suffering the most from their “balance” ( like the mesmer, forced into the shattercrap build, or the warrior, forced into full glass cannon in order to be effective, or the enge, forced into bunker build).

Since balance is done around tPvP, it would be nice if they split/reworked stuff like traps, Skale venom and other stuff ( like traits signets) in order to promote more build diversity.

Sadly it’s still not happening, and in tPvP you need to go D/D, P/D or S/P in order to be effective.

Yoda.9428:

In my opinion the thief is now the weakest character in the game, it has less health and less damage , it has the weakest crowd control options, 1 skill that has a 1200 range, etc.. But what is really ticking me off about these changes is now I have to completly change my build which means new armour and more gold I don’t have.

Less health? You mean the same amount of health as guardians and elementalists, but still with higher armor than elementalists….