Guild Wars 2

The dmg is low and stealth debuff need to get reverted to 3 sec again. The 4 sec debuff screws our rotation. Thief got no support thats good/better then other professions. And our dmg is now lower then most professions by a large margien, on top of that we are one of the harder pve professions to play and can easily get 1 shotted in some exp mode dungs. Why bring a theif instead of a warr?

Sadly if u wanna be able to play this game in non noob grps its time to reroll warr or mesm…..

pat pat
I feel your pain, this 4 sec revealed DEbuff was completely uncalled for.

Mackapacka.9462:

The dmg is low and stealth debuff need to get reverted to 3 sec again. The 4 sec debuff screws our rotation. Thief got no support thats good/better then other professions. And our dmg is now lower then most professions by a large margien, on top of that we are one of the harder pve professions to play and can easily get 1 shotted in some exp mode dungs. Why bring a theif instead of a warr?

Sadly if u wanna be able to play this game in non noob grps its time to reroll warr or mesm…..

or guardian

Panacea.4927:

Mackapacka.9462:

The dmg is low and stealth debuff need to get reverted to 3 sec again. The 4 sec debuff screws our rotation. Thief got no support thats good/better then other professions. And our dmg is now lower then most professions by a large margien, on top of that we are one of the harder pve professions to play and can easily get 1 shotted in some exp mode dungs. Why bring a theif instead of a warr?

Sadly if u wanna be able to play this game in non noob grps its time to reroll warr or mesm…..

or guardian

or ele, dont forget the eles. :>

And yeah tbh i dont want to reroll collecting all laurels and relearn a new profession again… maybe i should just do daily each day and take a break from the game.

Mackapacka.9462:

And yeah tbh i dont want to reroll collecting all laurels and relearn a new profession again… maybe i should just do daily each day and take a break from the game.

Laurels are account bound :>
karma is easy to come across.
If you’re good as a thief, every other class is a piece of cake.
Thief is one of the harder professions to play effectively.

And if people tell you thief is all about spamming Heartseeker
1) they’ve never played a thief before and dont know what they’re talking
2) they’re really really bad thieves.

Hi , I will try to address your concerns.

“The dmg is low and stealth debuff need to get reverted to 3 sec again. "
Thief Damage is actually high if you specialize for it.

“The 4 sec debuff screws our rotation. "
True this will take practice to re-learn to play

“Thief got no support thats good/better then other professions. "

Stealth is good support, Our Stealth is better than Mesmer Stealth
Vulnerability is good support, not better than other classes
Poison + Weakness is good support
And our dmg is now lower then most professions by a large margien,

“on top of that we are one of the harder pve professions to play and can easily get 1 shotted in some exp mode dungs. "

This is just a QQ I have an easier time on my thief than I do on an engineer
*Note I have not tried engineer since the patch

“Why bring a theif instead of a warr?”

Your group wants to skip some content – Stealth
You want higher DPS (Conditional)
You need a wall which a warrior can not bring
Access to Dark/ Smoke fields , but I will stop here as I feel I have backed up my statement.

“Sadly if u wanna be able to play this game in non noob grps its time to reroll warr or mesm…..”

This is also QQ It is certainly possible to play this game in non noob groups, this really comes down to who you know.

OP I hope this helps give some perspective. If there is anything inparticular I could do to offer help let me know I would be glad to. GL on your Journey in Tyria!

i dont need help and i know people but with recent nerfs it feels like im getting boosted.

PvE nerf got caught in the cross fire! all the stealth nerfs were intended for WvW and sPvP but sadly.. they remain the unaffected, the nerf has barely affected them while damaging the pve community

WvW/sPvP theif still continues to perma stealth and 2 shot enemies

My main is a mesmer. I also have an elem and a guard. I just started a thief for a no death competition. I’m having absolutely no issues soloing everything in open world. I’ll let you know once I get into dungeons. But I doubt it’s going to be hard. Also, thieves are very valuable on speed runs. I <3 a good thief in Arah. Makes it much less trouble to run through. I also haven’t noticed the thief being much squishier than mesmer. It has more escapes so it’s easier to use. I’m used to the lack of AoE with mes, though thief is a bit more limited in that department. Either way, I’m having fun. I’ll let you know if that or any of my views change.

Mackapacka.9462:

The dmg is low and stealth debuff need to get reverted to 3 sec again. The 4 sec debuff screws our rotation. Thief got no support thats good/better then other professions. And our dmg is now lower then most professions by a large margien, on top of that we are one of the harder pve professions to play and can easily get 1 shotted in some exp mode dungs. Why bring a theif instead of a warr?

Sadly if u wanna be able to play this game in non noob grps its time to reroll warr or mesm…..

IMO, thieves should be able to disarm traps in dungeons. I mean, what kind a thief doesn’t know how to disarm traps. :/

steepledhat im not a noob lol! got 1k hours played, when i told u i feel boosted i mean dmg wise, i could do everything better as a warr for example.

Patch hit my P/D condition build fairly hard. Hard enough getting around the stigma of everyone thinking its weird seeing a thief that isn’t D/D and showing that I could bring more utility and staying power then most pure D/D dps builds. Now the build generates less dps then before and has lost some of the staying power in close range.

I was able to get use to the 4 second wait within an hour roughly of playing but it still felt clunky and more exposed in melee. I would have been ok with revealed coming up if stealth expired without you attacking vs the 1 second increase to it. I was one that almost always chose to stay and fight rather then run in pve and WvW.

But this change seems to strike me as pushing thieves to abuse the whole stealth and let it expire and do it again repeatedly rather then staying in the fight. Guess I might get around to leveling alts and changing my thief to S/P and using him just for the daily now.

No incentive for me to play my thief for instance runs now, it just doesn’t feel fluid anymore. They might as well remove stealth from our rotation and just rebuild majority of rotations to not use stealth anymore at this rate.

OIIIIIO.7825:

Hi , I will try to address your concerns.

“The dmg is low and stealth debuff need to get reverted to 3 sec again. "
Thief Damage is actually high if you specialize for it.

“The 4 sec debuff screws our rotation. "
True this will take practice to re-learn to play

“Thief got no support thats good/better then other professions. "

Stealth is good support, Our Stealth is better than Mesmer Stealth
Vulnerability is good support, not better than other classes
Poison + Weakness is good support
And our dmg is now lower then most professions by a large margien,

“on top of that we are one of the harder pve professions to play and can easily get 1 shotted in some exp mode dungs. "

This is just a QQ I have an easier time on my thief than I do on an engineer
*Note I have not tried engineer since the patch

“Why bring a theif instead of a warr?”

Your group wants to skip some content – Stealth
You want higher DPS (Conditional)
You need a wall which a warrior can not bring
Access to Dark/ Smoke fields , but I will stop here as I feel I have backed up my statement.

“Sadly if u wanna be able to play this game in non noob grps its time to reroll warr or mesm…..”

This is also QQ It is certainly possible to play this game in non noob groups, this really comes down to who you know.

OP I hope this helps give some perspective. If there is anything inparticular I could do to offer help let me know I would be glad to. GL on your Journey in Tyria!

1) High Thief Dmg is dependent, for a good part, on stealth… BackStab, Cloak and Dagger, Stacking Might ect… it is also a dependent part of heals and condition removal. A Warrior bellowing out 100B can do exponentially more dmg with that 1 attack button than a thief who cant enter stealth. So yes, even if specd for it, the stealth nerf still hurts our dmg and decreases our dmg down to lower than almost every other class if not every other class.
2) Stealth is support? Yea its support so the thief can rez or get a group past mobs… so in that case, sure its support… but just like I don’t like being an Enchanter in EQ just because I can buff someone’s mana pool, I don’t like being a thief just so I can rez someone… that isn’t the role of the thief. If it was, why not just call them Morticians or Doctors or Field Medic…
3) Thief is easier? With no ability to get rid of agro in PvE, a downed set of skills that only leaves us a few more seconds til death, and now an entire trait line made unworkable… sorry but thief just became that much harder to play in PvE. As for engineer… umm lets see, you just got your turret dmg and health increased, the arc for the turrets increased, your sigils for your weapons now apply to your bundles… umm ya those are harsh nerfs.
4) Why bring a thief instead of a warrior? You make some points but most of them are mute. For one, Higher DMG… sorry, a warrior does higher direct dmg than a thief and for condition dmg well you could bring an ele or a necro… and both of them can apply vulnerability, strip boons, steal life or some combination of that… not to mention pets for additional dmg as well as additional condition dmg (with the necro)… add to that Mesmers for their pets and the ability to reflect cond dmg, direct dmg, and strip boons. So, no there is no reason to bring a thief other than your previously stated reason to run past mobs or to rez.

Firstly, please don’t call mesmer illusions pets. They behave entirely differently. (Must have a target, can’t give commands, can be evaded out of existance.) Also, mesmer phantasam damage is really just an attack. We have two skills that remove boons. One is GS3, it roots you and has a miniscule AoE. The other is the sword auto attack which reqs you to stay in melee range long enough to get through it’s first two stages. (It chains, autoattack.) Arcane thievery allows us to transfer conditions that we have (3 at most) on a 45s CD. We can’t reflect them. There is a difference.

That being said, a warrior far out damages most classes. That observation, in my view, says more about the warrior’s imbalance in PvE rather than anything about thief. You seem to devalue the ability to stealth res. It’s wonderful. You can’t play only DPS in this game. Everyone has to carry some support to create a stable team. Stealth is where thief is most useful in support. As far as thief’s easiness in PvE. You might not reset aggro tables, but you can stall out CDs with no issue on utilities and stall out init regen. That’s crazy valuable. It’s just not easy mode anymore. Seems like issues where everyone will just have to adapt.

Everything else aside, thief is far from unplayable in PvE.

Mackapacka.9462:

And yeah tbh i dont want to reroll collecting all laurels and relearn a new profession again… maybe i should just do daily each day and take a break from the game.

Laurels are account wide, thankfully. Karma, however, is not. :/

Far from unplayable, but definitely clunky and a MUCH larger and wide-spread nerf than I think they realized it was going to be. Especially to P/D damage.

My Caltrops is gone T^T

Mackapacka.9462:

The dmg is low and stealth debuff need to get reverted to 3 sec again. The 4 sec debuff screws our rotation. Thief got no support thats good/better then other professions. And our dmg is now lower then most professions by a large margien, on top of that we are one of the harder pve professions to play and can easily get 1 shotted in some exp mode dungs. Why bring a theif instead of a warr?

Sadly if u wanna be able to play this game in non noob grps its time to reroll warr or mesm…..

If you mean “non noob grps” as in non-Backstab builds, then you’re wrong. There are many, many builds that have not been hurt (or, if they have, only very, very little) by the new debuff.

Another thing- most people use the phrase “group support” to mean “giving your group lotsa lotsa boons”. Unfortunately, they fail to realize that slashing individual enemies to pieces faster than any other profession while the rest of the group deals with the tougher part of the fight, being able to rez allies easily because of stealth and SR, and being able to become a major one-person army that can fight groups of enemies and distract them while the rest of the group goes onwards can also be considered “group support”.

Our damage is not, by any measure, lower than most other professions. In fact, apart from (some) warriors, thieves are the hardest-hitting class in the game.

One of the harder PvE professions to play? With stealth, we can do many more things than a lot of other professions can. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been soloing PvE and, instead of fighting a huge group of enemies just so I can get a skill point, I simply stealthed and communed with a place of power to get my SP.

If you’re getting 1-shotted in dungeons, you’re playing the wrong build, or you’re talking about champ enemies that 1-shot everybody, regardless of profession.

You would take a thief over a warr for Stealth, mobility, versatility, distraction, rez’ing allies, distracting enemies, pulling enemies, mitigation via blinds, and conditions.

sry but ur post is full of crap, let me ask u a question, why on gw2lfg does people only want warriors and mesmers? becasue they are fotm. And if ur not bs full zerk thief u are a noob. We were pretty good at dpsing but since the nerf even engi does more dps, pls dont write these crap posts.TY

Imo anyone that goes full zerk is a complete noob, I rather not have to dead weights in my party, I have yet to meet a zerker that was any good.

The increased Revealed time translates to a dropped max sustain dmg from D/D. But thieves werent really the top DPSers in the first place. Warriors and Mesmer could easily beat thieves in a DPS race.

Problem with thieves in PvE is, that they dont bring anything (except stealth) to the group which other classes cant provide while even offering additional benefits. Espeacily at bossfights nearly all tools of a thief suddenly become useless, but for trash fights the thieftools are pretty nice (who cares about trash?)

For the guy above, Arganthium, yes we didn’t get a damage nerf to our skills, but that extra second of revealed screws up CnD dependent builds like p/d or back stabs which led to the decreased amount of damage you could possibly do before your opponent pops their heal. We can now do one less back stab and one less sneak attack. Yeah it may seem like not that big of a deal but for thief builds that relies on attacking from stealth and staying in fights longer will have a harder time playing aggressively and dealing damage.

BTW: I don’t mean back stab as in the whole mug-back-stab-hope-to-kill-opponent-in-one-combo build, I’m talking about the more defensively built back stab.

BobbyT.7192:

Imo anyone that goes full zerk is a complete noob, I rather not have to dead weights in my party, I have yet to meet a zerker that was any good.

Ouch.

Arganthium.5638:

Then, looking at the patch notes, thieves didn’t even get a single damage nerf. We just had Revealed increased by 1 second. I mean, seriously? Where are you getting these ideas of decreased DPS?

Backstab is a significant portion of DPS for D/D builds. Longer revealed means longer intervals between backstabs for D/D which means decreased DPS.

Sneak attack is a significant portion of DPS for P/D builds. Again, longer revealed means less sneak attacks which means decreased DPS.

They also decreased the duration of Caltrops by 33% which is a pretty big hit to Thief AoE DPS.

So yes, several builds inadvertantly lost DPS with the change to revealed, and most builds lost AoE DPS with the change to Caltrops.

Leohart.4610:

For the guy above, Arganthium, yes we didn’t get a damage nerf to our skills, but that extra second of revealed screws up CnD dependent builds like p/d or back stabs which led to the decreased amount of damage you could possibly do before your opponent pops their heal. We can now do one less back stab and one less sneak attack. Yeah it may seem like not that big of a deal but for thief builds that relies on attacking from stealth and staying in fights longer will have a harder time playing aggressively and dealing damage.

BTW: I don’t mean back stab as in the whole mug-back-stab-hope-to-kill-opponent-in-one-combo build, I’m talking about the more defensively built back stab.

I get that it is something of a damage nerf to builds like that, but to go from there to saying “Thief pve is now unplayable” is a huge leap.

Arganthium.5638:

Leohart.4610:

For the guy above, Arganthium, yes we didn’t get a damage nerf to our skills, but that extra second of revealed screws up CnD dependent builds like p/d or back stabs which led to the decreased amount of damage you could possibly do before your opponent pops their heal. We can now do one less back stab and one less sneak attack. Yeah it may seem like not that big of a deal but for thief builds that relies on attacking from stealth and staying in fights longer will have a harder time playing aggressively and dealing damage.

BTW: I don’t mean back stab as in the whole mug-back-stab-hope-to-kill-opponent-in-one-combo build, I’m talking about the more defensively built back stab.

I get that it is something of a damage nerf to builds like that, but to go from there to saying “Thief pve is now unplayable” is a huge leap.

Yeah I know, when I saw the title I was like “…………..” Quite the exaggeration

Arganthium.5638:

Then, looking at the patch notes, thieves didn’t even get a single damage nerf. We just had Revealed increased by 1 second. I mean, seriously? Where are you getting these ideas of decreased DPS?

Hmm, kinda scratching my head at this.. If you play a stealth build thief in PvE you should know that Backstab is a major point of our dps. You should also know that to maintain decent dps you need to Backstab as often as possible. Then you should be able to deduce that by adding a second to revealed your dps is reduced. Not to mention everything that triggers off of stealth. 5k every 3 seconds vs 5k every 4 seconds.. 1,667 dps vs 1250 dps.. Seriously we did take a hit to damage.

On another note, I am less and less impressed with this class. Thief was my first love, but after playing other classes and testing dps I’m really kind of disappointed here. With even 1 phantasm active my Mesmer tops my thief. I even have a Guardian build that matches the best numbers I can get with Thief, and it’s not GC. Before the flames come in this is in regards to PvE sustained damage output and I am comfortable with my own data and ability to optimize damage output for these classes.

Thief isn’t unplayable but our game play did go south. Lower damage and it feels just plain wonky now.

ANet, thief needs to bring more to the table, this nerf was uncalled for in PvE.

Bloodgruve.6038:

Arganthium.5638:

Then, looking at the patch notes, thieves didn’t even get a single damage nerf. We just had Revealed increased by 1 second. I mean, seriously? Where are you getting these ideas of decreased DPS?

Hmm, kinda scratching my head at this.. If you play a stealth build thief in PvE you should know that Backstab is a major point of our dps. You should also know that to maintain decent dps you need to Backstab as often as possible. Then you should be able to deduce that by adding a second to revealed your dps is reduced. Not to mention everything that triggers off of stealth. 5k every 3 seconds vs 5k every 4 seconds.. 1,667 dps vs 1250 dps.. Seriously we did take a hit to damage.

On another note, I am less and less impressed with this class. Thief was my first love, but after playing other classes and testing dps I’m really kind of disappointed here. With even 1 phantasm active my Mesmer tops my thief. I even have a Guardian build that matches the best numbers I can get with Thief, and it’s not GC. Before the flames come in this is in regards to PvE sustained damage output and I am comfortable with my own data and ability to optimize damage output for these classes.

Thief isn’t unplayable but our game play did go south. Lower damage and it feels just plain wonky now.

ANet, thief needs to bring more to the table, this nerf was uncalled for in PvE.

I think that your build is entirely different from mine. I use Backstab, but it is in no way a major part of my DPS. At all.

Glad there are other options but I fell in love with the class for the stealth mechanic and ANet just keeps messing with it.

BobbyT.7192:

Imo anyone that goes full zerk is a complete noob, I rather not have to dead weights in my party, I have yet to meet a zerker that was any good.

That’s too bad BobbyT, I hope you get to run with a few good GC’rs some day.

Blood~

Bloodgruve.6038:

Glad there are other options but I fell in love with the class for the stealth mechanic and ANet just keeps messing with it.

BobbyT.7192:

Imo anyone that goes full zerk is a complete noob, I rather not have to dead weights in my party, I have yet to meet a zerker that was any good.

That’s too bad BobbyT, I hope you get to run with a few good GC’rs some day.

Blood~

Me too (as well as the ability for thief to teleport), but I didn’t fall in love with the class for Backstab. :P

Arganthium.5638:

I get that it is something of a damage nerf to builds like that, but to go from there to saying “Thief pve is now unplayable” is a huge leap.

It’s definitely a large exaggeration, but so is saying “thieves didn’t even get a single damage nerf”.
: /

they prety mutch screwed my Bleed Build thief

slowly in PVP and PVE we will be only able to play backstab thief or go home
oh wait they nerfing it and still wanting to nerf it.

are we even gonna have a PVE build with Melee Weapons ???

phor.7952:

Arganthium.5638:

I get that it is something of a damage nerf to builds like that, but to go from there to saying “Thief pve is now unplayable” is a huge leap.

It’s definitely a large exaggeration, but so is saying “thieves didn’t even get a single damage nerf”.
: /

Ah, I see what you mean.

Sorry, what I meant by “not a single damage nerf” was a direct damage nerf. There are lots of builds out there that don’t rely on stealth for damage, so it’s not entirely accurate to call it a direct damage nerf.

get to a point when dev’s think thety no more than player’s. It’s time to quit and give it a rest. They messed up and will figure it out later.

Freakish.6720:

get to a point when dev’s think thety no more than player’s. It’s time to quit and give it a rest. They messed up and will figure it out later.

+1 to you sir, there’s been nothing but people complaining, me being one of them. But it is time to just let it be until they figure something out. I’m sure, or at least HOPING they’d check the thief section and see all the complaints. Instead of complaining, we could maybe pull some suggestions for Anet if they hadn’t figured anything out yet.

Leohart.4610:

… I’m sure, or at least HOPING they’d check the thief section and see all the complaints. Instead of complaining, we could maybe pull some suggestions for Anet if they hadn’t figured anything out yet.

No, don’t be passive and hope for change. Stop logging on, enough people doing that will get their attention.

Why not try a build adjustment?

In dungeons, you’re rarely going to pull off a perfect 3s Backstab cycle as a thief due to requiring to dodge and moving usually.

Instead, mix it in with your secondary set, one that doesn’t require stealthing maybe. I go D/D and P/P in dungeons, and it works well for me.

Arganthium.5638:

Then, looking at the patch notes, thieves didn’t even get a single damage nerf. We just had Revealed increased by 1 second. I mean, seriously? Where are you getting these ideas of decreased DPS?
.

Okay so taking an extra second longer to be able to stealth then backstab in PVE which has been calculated to be about 1.7k damage decrease per rotation is not a damage decrease.

Imagine if you had to do four chains, what’s 4 × 1.7k?

Yeah its not a damage decrease.

Okay buddy.

Also, your “feelies” or “I don’t notice it” doesnt count.
The fact is that there is a damage decrease.

Arganthium.5638:

Mackapacka.9462:

sry but ur post is full of crap, let me ask u a question, why on gw2lfg does people only want warriors and mesmers? becasue they are fotm. And if ur not bs full zerk thief u are a noob. We were pretty good at dpsing but since the nerf even engi does more dps, pls dont write these crap posts.TY

My goodness man, if you want people to believe what you’re saying, at least yuz praupr gramer nd speling.

What people want on GW2LFG does not equal what is actually the case. I’ve seen far too many a person on these forums say that “oh, thieves are awful for PvE and dungeons” and yet have not been able to back up their case at all. They’ll say things like you do- “Well, why doesn’t anybody want thieves on GW2LFG?”- and use that as evidence that thieves are bad for PvE/ Dungeon runs. Then they’ll do everything they can to keep themselves from having a thief in their group. It’s a self-perpetuating bias, and it’s theoretically incorrect: thieves have a lot to bring to the party with aggression, stealth, teleports, mitigation, etc.

And if ur not bs full zerk thief u are a noob.

There is nothing “BS” about full zerker thief. In fact, I’m aiming for lots of zerker armor myself right now. I run a 0/0/20/30/20 D/P build that relies on tons of mitigation, constant initiative regeneration, stealth, high mobility, great healing, and flexibility to survive. Because I have 200 in Toughness and Healing, 300 in Vitality (+3000 HP), and +30% boon duration, I’m balancing out those stats with zerker gear which gives me offensive opportunities. The result? A very balanced out thief that is awesomely survivable and yet can really punch a blow into my opponents’ defenses.

I don’t see any reason why you couldn’t use more defensive gear, with, say, a 20/30/0/0/20 build without being called a noob.

We were pretty good at dpsing but since the nerf even engi does more dps

Lolwut? This is completely nonsensical. Even before the patch, engis did a ton of DPS via conditions and explosives.

Then, looking at the patch notes, thieves didn’t even get a single damage nerf. We just had Revealed increased by 1 second. I mean, seriously? Where are you getting these ideas of decreased DPS?

pls dont write these crap posts.TY

Lol. Somebody’s on their time of the month.

Thank you, i totally agree with your post and i hope many others do, because the QQ is unbelievable.
Its not that you have so much competition in PvE or any DPSmeters anyways. I like the playstyle on my thieves and i dont call the +1s revelead that big of a nerf. You just need to relearn some rotations and its not that bad like guardian GS skill swap was.

knyy.6427:

Arganthium.5638:

Mackapacka.9462:

sry but ur post is full of crap, let me ask u a question, why on gw2lfg does people only want warriors and mesmers? becasue they are fotm. And if ur not bs full zerk thief u are a noob. We were pretty good at dpsing but since the nerf even engi does more dps, pls dont write these crap posts.TY

My goodness man, if you want people to believe what you’re saying, at least yuz praupr gramer nd speling.

What people want on GW2LFG does not equal what is actually the case. I’ve seen far too many a person on these forums say that “oh, thieves are awful for PvE and dungeons” and yet have not been able to back up their case at all. They’ll say things like you do- “Well, why doesn’t anybody want thieves on GW2LFG?”- and use that as evidence that thieves are bad for PvE/ Dungeon runs. Then they’ll do everything they can to keep themselves from having a thief in their group. It’s a self-perpetuating bias, and it’s theoretically incorrect: thieves have a lot to bring to the party with aggression, stealth, teleports, mitigation, etc.

And if ur not bs full zerk thief u are a noob.

There is nothing “BS” about full zerker thief. In fact, I’m aiming for lots of zerker armor myself right now. I run a 0/0/20/30/20 D/P build that relies on tons of mitigation, constant initiative regeneration, stealth, high mobility, great healing, and flexibility to survive. Because I have 200 in Toughness and Healing, 300 in Vitality (+3000 HP), and +30% boon duration, I’m balancing out those stats with zerker gear which gives me offensive opportunities. The result? A very balanced out thief that is awesomely survivable and yet can really punch a blow into my opponents’ defenses.

I don’t see any reason why you couldn’t use more defensive gear, with, say, a 20/30/0/0/20 build without being called a noob.

We were pretty good at dpsing but since the nerf even engi does more dps

Lolwut? This is completely nonsensical. Even before the patch, engis did a ton of DPS via conditions and explosives.

Then, looking at the patch notes, thieves didn’t even get a single damage nerf. We just had Revealed increased by 1 second. I mean, seriously? Where are you getting these ideas of decreased DPS?

pls dont write these crap posts.TY

Lol. Somebody’s on their time of the month.

Thank you, i totally agree with your post and i hope many others do, because the QQ is unbelievable.
Its not that you have so much competition in PvE or any DPSmeters anyways. I like the playstyle on my thieves and i dont call the +1s revelead that big of a nerf. You just need to relearn some rotations and its not that bad like guardian GS skill swap was.

GS was a slap on the wrist. It’s just relearning the interface. How this nerf effects my build is, the enemy has one second more to hit me while they aren’t dazed, which can be huge if they’re packing an aoe or channel, 1 more second I have to wait till I can put up a blind to defend myself and my party, 1 more second I have to wait to get the condition off me, and one more second to proc regen. On top of that, the quickness nerf has made my on crit quickness significantly less powerful.
I’m basing this on dungeoning where enemies are on you the instant stealth is down.

I think that quite a lot of people here play thief, but I also feel that quite a lot of you underestimate the effects of the nurf because of your own experiences of playing with builds that do not depend heavily on stealth. This change would not affect quite of lot of you because you are unlikely to go back into stealth after 4 seconds anyway.

I play a build heavily dependant on stealth:
D&D and S&D
I stack mostly precision but also toughness, healing power and power.
I have 2 heals Hide in shadows and shadow refuge with shadow rejuvenation.

Quite a lot of you are saying that thieves have high survivability that is both true and false.
This is definitely true for ranged thieves utilising dodge
For stealth builds though you are likely to be in melee range for Cloak and Dagger.
I consider myself one of the tankier thieves and I can only last around 3 shots against bosses max usually only 2. The problem is you are in melee range with medium armor and relatively low hp, most other dps classes have either higher range and more armor making it easier.
For stealth builds, the survivability of stealth becomes a necessity due to the high risks you and you team is taking

Reduced Damage
- Directly- less stealth means less damage from backstabs.
- Indirectly- Less stealth means less blinds form Cloaked in Shadow (very important) means I will be taking more damage and healing less from stealth. 1 second extra in revealed means a LOT because mobs will miss the first shot but be MUCH more likely to hit with the second shot, for this squishy class it means using more active heals. After patch, I find that I am using Shadow Refuge for heals a LOT more because I have already poped the Hide in Shadows, and when I heal with Shadow Refuge I am completely out of battle for 10 seconds, resulting in reduced damage.

Reduced Utility
- I am using shadow refuge a lot more for myself, then I will be less likely to have it for when a team member needs it during battle. That is most of my utility really.
- If I am out of battle more team will benefit less from my debuffs.
- With S&D I used to be able to continually daze a mob for a good period of time while my team takes out other mobs. Useful for mages/ more annoying mobs like bombers. Even before nurf, I CANNOT do this indefinitely and I will need to retreat eventually, which is fair. After nurf This tactic is now not worth the risk of using it. I take significantly more damage, which = higher chance of down or faster retreat.

To me what this nurf did was significantly reduced my utility, damage(more than 30%) and increased significantly the risk of combat in general. (less heal and get hit more)

Stealth based rogues have always been about risk vs reward, you have high utility, high damage but high risk (bad armour for melee) With that 1 second increase in revealed utility decreased, damage significantly decreased but also risk increased.

Before anyone says I need to get used to new rotation, I have, I can stealth consistently on the 4 second mark. The extra 1 second simply screws stealth rogues over in PVE imo.
The animations are also choppy, if this is going to stay, the animations need to be changed. It’s not that I am not used to it, to me the animations simply don’t work as well.

SUGGESTION: Leave PvE the way it was, it was good and fair. Tweak with revealed and stealth in PVP and WvW.

I agree. Thief has been nerfed into obvlivion in pve.

I came to the thief boards to check on helpful hints for my thief alt, and just read through this thread. As somebody who mains a ranger, you have no clue how hard I am laughing. Unplayable? A single second is added to reveal, and you think it breaks the class completely? This is as hilariously stupid as Warriors saying that their class is now broken because of the quickness nerf. And not bringing anything to the group? The same thing has been said about Rangers since forever, and has been proven false again and again. You guys need to wake up, because a single second added to reveal does not break a class.

You mad about stealth nerf? Forget stealth, let’s put our thinking caps on and try some non stealthy builds!

Here’s one that I came up with (or rediscovered, in case someone already thought of this before):
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Less-Wonky-Signet-Build-Take-2

I’m still at the testing stage of this build but so far I am REALLY encouraged by the results, and I’m finding it to be EXTREMELY fun!

Why BS ppl and run around like a little pansy hiding behind the fragile stealth mechanic when you can dodge and fly all over the map drop spikes everywhere and play the thief like a MAN!!!

RyuDragnier.9476:

I came to the thief boards to check on helpful hints for my thief alt, and just read through this thread. As somebody who mains a ranger, you have no clue how hard I am laughing. Unplayable? A single second is added to reveal, and you think it breaks the class completely? This is as hilariously stupid as Warriors saying that their class is now broken because of the quickness nerf. And not bringing anything to the group? The same thing has been said about Rangers since forever, and has been proven false again and again. You guys need to wake up, because a single second added to reveal does not break a class.

We explained why it breaks stealth heavy builds, its not based on nothing… please read.
It’s not that its unplayable, its just that it is no longer worth the risk of doing so. You can play without dying but 1 second in stealth = massive dunk in damage/utility.

Silver.4798:

You mad about stealth nerf? Forget stealth, let’s put our thinking caps on and try some non stealthy builds!

Here’s one that I came up with (or rediscovered, in case someone already thought of this before):
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Less-Wonky-Signet-Build-Take-2

I’m still at the testing stage of this build but so far I am REALLY encouraged by the results, and I’m finding it to be EXTREMELY fun!

Why BS ppl and run around like a little pansy hiding behind the fragile stealth mechanic when you can dodge and fly all over the map drop spikes everywhere and play the thief like a MAN!!!

I just think that stealth should stay an available and valid option for PvE because I thoroughly enjoy it and its good to have more variety in this class.
On another note Black Powder, pistolwhip, daze, unload, high range dps potential and melee dps and tanking capabilities+high speed and dodge.
Gg why did I not think of this before.

@Lomase, I hear ya, stealth mechanic is fun and it has its own unique flavor when playing the thief. But since it’s a constant target of the nerf bat maybe it’s time to step back a little and try something else until Anet can give us some buffs to make stealth work better.

Besides I bet a lot of people saw the potential signet synergy in the thief traits and ignored it. Same with the venoms. Maybe we will see some of those thief builds become a little more mainstream now!