Thief ranged - How is it?
I use this build for my wvw thief and I’m really liking it. it’s from taquito bandito. a p/p thief witch I encountered on the forums. it’s very mobile and durable while retaining that burst damage you need. you may have noticed that it’s a no stealth build but you can still get steath from the d/p combo: blackpouder+heartseeker. i will always keep that ofzet for situations where more burst is needed, so in the case of healing warriors and retaliation guards. while not being fully ranged and a little expensive I stronly recoment it its a solid build and I’m having a great time playing it! a plus is that is very evasif, you are able to dodge A LOT, and gain maigt and +10% damage for doing zo. zo while you arent in stealth you still anoy the crap out of players if you time your dodges!
I’ll just put a video here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Byk31cMwwco&list=PLL0zgxysk21_89P-ffAS2B961HEemQxno
assassin for Valar Morghulis
thief 80/ranger 80. stealthless by default
mexican gunslinger
thief 80/ranger 80. stealthless by default
mexican gunslinger
(edited by kaazdinasty.8120)
p/p is pure garbage
Shortbow is my favorite kit in the game. The amount of AoE damage is insane, if you can find a nice position were you wont be bothered you can make it rain death. inf arrow + the dodge give you amazing mobility, and pretty much constant poison field/blast finishers make you really great support.
p/p is not pure garbage, it has nice synergy with signet of malice. S/P + P/P is my goto setup for dungeons now.
Oh and you should not range the whole time because melee is better than ranged always if you can handle it.
All is vain.
p/p is not pure garbage, it has nice synergy with signet of malice. S/P + P/P is my goto setup for dungeons now.
Oh and you should not range the whole time because melee is better than ranged always if you can handle it.
PvE the dps for PP is rather low. The auto attack is condition damage based, while unload is direct damage based. It’s a weapon set that has an identity crisis. If there are multiple targets you’re far better off using a shortbow. If it’s just one you’re far better off using mele. There is hardly ever a good reason to use PP unless you’re just not skilled enough to use mele in PvE.
WvW/PvP… one boon which can be kept up 100% of the time with ease hard counters your PP weaponset (retal).
It’s rubbish.
Shortbow is pretty awesome… but thief is capped at 900 range which can be a problem at times.
Tarnished Coast
Salvage 4 Profit + MF Guide – http://tinyurl.com/l8ff6pa
Salvage 4 Profit + MF Guide – http://tinyurl.com/l8ff6pa
(edited by Aberrant.6749)
Taking P/P in a dungeon or in wvw when you could be using Shortbow doesn’t make sense. Cluster bomb blast finisher is very good in dungeons as well as in an organized wvw/pvp group. Shortbow has extra mobility and evades, and hits multiple targets.
If you are doing dungeons with an ele, try cluster bombing whenever they drop a fire field on the boss, giving your whole team multiple stacks of might. Or area healing on water fields. Same goes for anywhere else.
Ranger//Necro
It makes sense when you consider its synergy with signet of malice. If you’re not using this signet then yes P/P is pure garbage.
All is vain.
It makes sense when you consider its synergy with signet of malice. If you’re not using this signet then yes P/P is pure garbage.
Why are you taking so much constant damage to where you need that at range? o.O
Even with signet of malice it’s not a good set. It’s not like malice causes it to do more damage or add any utility other than continuous self healing (which you shouldn’t need).
Tarnished Coast
Salvage 4 Profit + MF Guide – http://tinyurl.com/l8ff6pa
Salvage 4 Profit + MF Guide – http://tinyurl.com/l8ff6pa
(edited by Aberrant.6749)
It makes sense when you consider its synergy with signet of malice. If you’re not using this signet then yes P/P is pure garbage.
Why are you taking so much constant damage to where you need that at range? o.O
Even with signet of malice it’s not a good set.
You have to be built a certain way but it’s pretty solid if you’re built for it. As for why I’m taking so much damage with it…I usually don’t.
P/P is my regen set when I take damage in melee I regen HP back quickly with unload then switch back to S/P.
All is vain.
It makes sense when you consider its synergy with signet of malice. If you’re not using this signet then yes P/P is pure garbage.
Why are you taking so much constant damage to where you need that at range? o.O
Even with signet of malice it’s not a good set.
You have to be built a certain way but it’s pretty solid if you’re built for it. As for why I’m taking so much damage with it…I usually don’t.
P/P is my regen set when I take damage in melee I regen HP back quickly back with unload then switch back to S/P.
Why are you taking so much damage while in mele range? PvE wise you should be behind your target the entire time and just dodge the mele range aoe stuffs. The game is pretty well timed to where you can avoid all of the heavy hits just with dodging. With S/P you get a lot of evades from pistol whip. I use D/D and have no need of the extra healing… so esp. as S/P you shouldn’t need to back out so much to where you would want to use this sub par PP weapon set.
Tarnished Coast
Salvage 4 Profit + MF Guide – http://tinyurl.com/l8ff6pa
Salvage 4 Profit + MF Guide – http://tinyurl.com/l8ff6pa
(edited by Aberrant.6749)
It makes sense when you consider its synergy with signet of malice. If you’re not using this signet then yes P/P is pure garbage.
Why are you taking so much constant damage to where you need that at range? o.O
Even with signet of malice it’s not a good set.
You have to be built a certain way but it’s pretty solid if you’re built for it. As for why I’m taking so much damage with it…I usually don’t.
P/P is my regen set when I take damage in melee I regen HP back quickly back with unload then switch back to S/P.
Why are you taking so much damage while in mele range? PvE wise you should be behind your target the entire time and just dodge the mele range aoe stuffs. The game is pretty well timed to where you can avoid all of the heavy hits just with dodging. With S/P you get a lot of evades as part of one of your attacks. I use DD and have no need of the extra healing… so esp. as S/P you shouldn’t need to back out so much to where you would want to use this sub par PP weapon set.
I’m not behind my target, I like to facetank bosses with pistol whips. Well yea I don’t need to back out much, P/P is my backup set IF I need to back out.
All is vain.
It makes sense when you consider its synergy with signet of malice. If you’re not using this signet then yes P/P is pure garbage.
Why are you taking so much constant damage to where you need that at range? o.O
Even with signet of malice it’s not a good set.
You have to be built a certain way but it’s pretty solid if you’re built for it. As for why I’m taking so much damage with it…I usually don’t.
P/P is my regen set when I take damage in melee I regen HP back quickly back with unload then switch back to S/P.
Why are you taking so much damage while in mele range? PvE wise you should be behind your target the entire time and just dodge the mele range aoe stuffs. The game is pretty well timed to where you can avoid all of the heavy hits just with dodging. With S/P you get a lot of evades as part of one of your attacks. I use DD and have no need of the extra healing… so esp. as S/P you shouldn’t need to back out so much to where you would want to use this sub par PP weapon set.
I’m not behind my target, I like to facetank bosses with pistol whips.
Then you’re evading most of the time while doing rapid hit attacks… so why are you taking enough damage to where you would need to back out and use PP? Don’t get me started on PW dps btw…
Tarnished Coast
Salvage 4 Profit + MF Guide – http://tinyurl.com/l8ff6pa
Salvage 4 Profit + MF Guide – http://tinyurl.com/l8ff6pa
It makes sense when you consider its synergy with signet of malice. If you’re not using this signet then yes P/P is pure garbage.
Why are you taking so much constant damage to where you need that at range? o.O
Even with signet of malice it’s not a good set.
You have to be built a certain way but it’s pretty solid if you’re built for it. As for why I’m taking so much damage with it…I usually don’t.
P/P is my regen set when I take damage in melee I regen HP back quickly back with unload then switch back to S/P.
Why are you taking so much damage while in mele range? PvE wise you should be behind your target the entire time and just dodge the mele range aoe stuffs. The game is pretty well timed to where you can avoid all of the heavy hits just with dodging. With S/P you get a lot of evades as part of one of your attacks. I use DD and have no need of the extra healing… so esp. as S/P you shouldn’t need to back out so much to where you would want to use this sub par PP weapon set.
I’m not behind my target, I like to facetank bosses with pistol whips.
Then you’re evading most of the time… so why are you taking enough damage to where you would need to back out and use PP?
Some bosses do too much damage after a point due to a number of things. Like if it just hits too hard, or I just generated too much hatred that it’s focusing on me or a number of things. It’s good to have a backup ranged set for PvE and shortbow doesn’t synergize with signet of malice.
Yes PW DPS is not the best, but you need at least 1 tank in your team that wants to tank the boss and it interrupts the boss very often to make everyone else’ life easier if I can just stand there and tank it.
Besides if I’m tanking the boss and keeping its attention that it leaves its back open for you to backstab it constantly.
All is vain.
(edited by Excalibur.9748)
It makes sense when you consider its synergy with signet of malice. If you’re not using this signet then yes P/P is pure garbage.
Why are you taking so much constant damage to where you need that at range? o.O
Even with signet of malice it’s not a good set.
You have to be built a certain way but it’s pretty solid if you’re built for it. As for why I’m taking so much damage with it…I usually don’t.
P/P is my regen set when I take damage in melee I regen HP back quickly back with unload then switch back to S/P.
Why are you taking so much damage while in mele range? PvE wise you should be behind your target the entire time and just dodge the mele range aoe stuffs. The game is pretty well timed to where you can avoid all of the heavy hits just with dodging. With S/P you get a lot of evades as part of one of your attacks. I use DD and have no need of the extra healing… so esp. as S/P you shouldn’t need to back out so much to where you would want to use this sub par PP weapon set.
I’m not behind my target, I like to facetank bosses with pistol whips.
Then you’re evading most of the time… so why are you taking enough damage to where you would need to back out and use PP?
Some bosses do too much damage after a point due to a number of things. Like if it just hits too hard, or I just generated too much hatred that it’s focusing on me or a number of things. It’s good to have a backup ranged set for PvE and shortbow doesn’t synergize with signet of malice.
Yes PW DPS is not the best, but you need at least 1 tank in your team that wants to tank the boss and it interrupts the boss very often to make everyone else’ life easier if I can just stand there and tank it.
Besides if I’m tanking the boss and keeping its attention that it leaves its back open for you to backstab it constantly.
Which bosses are giving you problems? Constant evades + malice should be more than enough as long as you’re timing your dodges as well. To me it just sounds like you’re just doing something wrong and using PP to make up for that. I also 100% disagree that you need a tank. This isn’t your standard trinity game.
Tarnished Coast
Salvage 4 Profit + MF Guide – http://tinyurl.com/l8ff6pa
Salvage 4 Profit + MF Guide – http://tinyurl.com/l8ff6pa
It makes sense when you consider its synergy with signet of malice. If you’re not using this signet then yes P/P is pure garbage.
Why are you taking so much constant damage to where you need that at range? o.O
Even with signet of malice it’s not a good set.
You have to be built a certain way but it’s pretty solid if you’re built for it. As for why I’m taking so much damage with it…I usually don’t.
P/P is my regen set when I take damage in melee I regen HP back quickly back with unload then switch back to S/P.
Why are you taking so much damage while in mele range? PvE wise you should be behind your target the entire time and just dodge the mele range aoe stuffs. The game is pretty well timed to where you can avoid all of the heavy hits just with dodging. With S/P you get a lot of evades as part of one of your attacks. I use DD and have no need of the extra healing… so esp. as S/P you shouldn’t need to back out so much to where you would want to use this sub par PP weapon set.
I’m not behind my target, I like to facetank bosses with pistol whips.
Then you’re evading most of the time… so why are you taking enough damage to where you would need to back out and use PP?
Some bosses do too much damage after a point due to a number of things. Like if it just hits too hard, or I just generated too much hatred that it’s focusing on me or a number of things. It’s good to have a backup ranged set for PvE and shortbow doesn’t synergize with signet of malice.
Yes PW DPS is not the best, but you need at least 1 tank in your team that wants to tank the boss and it interrupts the boss very often to make everyone else’ life easier if I can just stand there and tank it.
Besides if I’m tanking the boss and keeping its attention that it leaves its back open for you to backstab it constantly.
Which bosses are giving you problems? Constant evades + malice should be more than enough as long as you’re timing your dodges as well. To me it just sounds like you’re just doing something wrong and using PP to make up for that. I also 100% disagree that you need a tank. This isn’t your standard trinity game.
Uhh I don’t dodge, I just stand and spam pistol whip.
All is vain.
It makes sense when you consider its synergy with signet of malice. If you’re not using this signet then yes P/P is pure garbage.
Why are you taking so much constant damage to where you need that at range? o.O
Even with signet of malice it’s not a good set.
You have to be built a certain way but it’s pretty solid if you’re built for it. As for why I’m taking so much damage with it…I usually don’t.
P/P is my regen set when I take damage in melee I regen HP back quickly back with unload then switch back to S/P.
Why are you taking so much damage while in mele range? PvE wise you should be behind your target the entire time and just dodge the mele range aoe stuffs. The game is pretty well timed to where you can avoid all of the heavy hits just with dodging. With S/P you get a lot of evades as part of one of your attacks. I use DD and have no need of the extra healing… so esp. as S/P you shouldn’t need to back out so much to where you would want to use this sub par PP weapon set.
I’m not behind my target, I like to facetank bosses with pistol whips.
Then you’re evading most of the time… so why are you taking enough damage to where you would need to back out and use PP?
Some bosses do too much damage after a point due to a number of things. Like if it just hits too hard, or I just generated too much hatred that it’s focusing on me or a number of things. It’s good to have a backup ranged set for PvE and shortbow doesn’t synergize with signet of malice.
Yes PW DPS is not the best, but you need at least 1 tank in your team that wants to tank the boss and it interrupts the boss very often to make everyone else’ life easier if I can just stand there and tank it.
Besides if I’m tanking the boss and keeping its attention that it leaves its back open for you to backstab it constantly.
Which bosses are giving you problems? Constant evades + malice should be more than enough as long as you’re timing your dodges as well. To me it just sounds like you’re just doing something wrong and using PP to make up for that. I also 100% disagree that you need a tank. This isn’t your standard trinity game.
Uhh I don’t dodge, I just stand and spam pistol whip.
That’s your problem right there then. You’re probably not timing your whips properly to get the evades at the right time and then not using dodge when you should to correct that, thus taking more damage than you should which is requiring you to fall back and use PP.
I really wish they would rework PP myself, but atm it’s just too scattered… aa is cond, unload doesn’t do the best damage, it has some ok utility but not worth the ini it costs while in that set… : /
Tarnished Coast
Salvage 4 Profit + MF Guide – http://tinyurl.com/l8ff6pa
Salvage 4 Profit + MF Guide – http://tinyurl.com/l8ff6pa
(edited by Aberrant.6749)
It makes sense when you consider its synergy with signet of malice. If you’re not using this signet then yes P/P is pure garbage.
Why are you taking so much constant damage to where you need that at range? o.O
Even with signet of malice it’s not a good set.
You have to be built a certain way but it’s pretty solid if you’re built for it. As for why I’m taking so much damage with it…I usually don’t.
P/P is my regen set when I take damage in melee I regen HP back quickly back with unload then switch back to S/P.
Why are you taking so much damage while in mele range? PvE wise you should be behind your target the entire time and just dodge the mele range aoe stuffs. The game is pretty well timed to where you can avoid all of the heavy hits just with dodging. With S/P you get a lot of evades as part of one of your attacks. I use DD and have no need of the extra healing… so esp. as S/P you shouldn’t need to back out so much to where you would want to use this sub par PP weapon set.
I’m not behind my target, I like to facetank bosses with pistol whips.
Then you’re evading most of the time… so why are you taking enough damage to where you would need to back out and use PP?
Some bosses do too much damage after a point due to a number of things. Like if it just hits too hard, or I just generated too much hatred that it’s focusing on me or a number of things. It’s good to have a backup ranged set for PvE and shortbow doesn’t synergize with signet of malice.
Yes PW DPS is not the best, but you need at least 1 tank in your team that wants to tank the boss and it interrupts the boss very often to make everyone else’ life easier if I can just stand there and tank it.
Besides if I’m tanking the boss and keeping its attention that it leaves its back open for you to backstab it constantly.
Which bosses are giving you problems? Constant evades + malice should be more than enough as long as you’re timing your dodges as well. To me it just sounds like you’re just doing something wrong and using PP to make up for that. I also 100% disagree that you need a tank. This isn’t your standard trinity game.
Uhh I don’t dodge, I just stand and spam pistol whip.
That’s your problem right there then. You’re probably not timing your whips properly to get the evades at the right time and then not using dodge when you should to correct that, thus taking more damage than you should.
Yea I don’t dungeon a lot but it’s working pretty well so far. I feel pretty good about my build, playstyle etc. P/P just makes sense right now. So I wouldn’t say it’s a complete failure of a set.
I need a faceroll build for PvE and this is it.
All is vain.
It makes sense when you consider its synergy with signet of malice. If you’re not using this signet then yes P/P is pure garbage.
Why are you taking so much constant damage to where you need that at range? o.O
Even with signet of malice it’s not a good set.
You have to be built a certain way but it’s pretty solid if you’re built for it. As for why I’m taking so much damage with it…I usually don’t.
P/P is my regen set when I take damage in melee I regen HP back quickly back with unload then switch back to S/P.
Why are you taking so much damage while in mele range? PvE wise you should be behind your target the entire time and just dodge the mele range aoe stuffs. The game is pretty well timed to where you can avoid all of the heavy hits just with dodging. With S/P you get a lot of evades as part of one of your attacks. I use DD and have no need of the extra healing… so esp. as S/P you shouldn’t need to back out so much to where you would want to use this sub par PP weapon set.
I’m not behind my target, I like to facetank bosses with pistol whips.
Then you’re evading most of the time… so why are you taking enough damage to where you would need to back out and use PP?
Some bosses do too much damage after a point due to a number of things. Like if it just hits too hard, or I just generated too much hatred that it’s focusing on me or a number of things. It’s good to have a backup ranged set for PvE and shortbow doesn’t synergize with signet of malice.
Yes PW DPS is not the best, but you need at least 1 tank in your team that wants to tank the boss and it interrupts the boss very often to make everyone else’ life easier if I can just stand there and tank it.
Besides if I’m tanking the boss and keeping its attention that it leaves its back open for you to backstab it constantly.
Which bosses are giving you problems? Constant evades + malice should be more than enough as long as you’re timing your dodges as well. To me it just sounds like you’re just doing something wrong and using PP to make up for that. I also 100% disagree that you need a tank. This isn’t your standard trinity game.
Uhh I don’t dodge, I just stand and spam pistol whip.
That’s your problem right there then. You’re probably not timing your whips properly to get the evades at the right time and then not using dodge when you should to correct that, thus taking more damage than you should.
Yea I don’t dungeon a lot but it’s working pretty well so far. I feel pretty good about my build, playstyle etc. P/P just makes sense right now. So I wouldn’t say it’s a complete failure of a set.
I need a faceroll build for PvE and this is it.
It’s still subpar performance wise is the issue. A well plaid thief has no good use for PP. If you want a faceroll PvE character I HIGHLY suggest you make a guardian instead (that’s why I have one). It’s far better for you and your party Vs. a sub-par thief set up .
All of this is a HUGE stretch to try and say that PP is a valid set btw…
Tarnished Coast
Salvage 4 Profit + MF Guide – http://tinyurl.com/l8ff6pa
Salvage 4 Profit + MF Guide – http://tinyurl.com/l8ff6pa
It makes sense when you consider its synergy with signet of malice. If you’re not using this signet then yes P/P is pure garbage.
Why are you taking so much constant damage to where you need that at range? o.O
Even with signet of malice it’s not a good set.
You have to be built a certain way but it’s pretty solid if you’re built for it. As for why I’m taking so much damage with it…I usually don’t.
P/P is my regen set when I take damage in melee I regen HP back quickly back with unload then switch back to S/P.
Why are you taking so much damage while in mele range? PvE wise you should be behind your target the entire time and just dodge the mele range aoe stuffs. The game is pretty well timed to where you can avoid all of the heavy hits just with dodging. With S/P you get a lot of evades as part of one of your attacks. I use DD and have no need of the extra healing… so esp. as S/P you shouldn’t need to back out so much to where you would want to use this sub par PP weapon set.
I’m not behind my target, I like to facetank bosses with pistol whips.
Then you’re evading most of the time… so why are you taking enough damage to where you would need to back out and use PP?
Some bosses do too much damage after a point due to a number of things. Like if it just hits too hard, or I just generated too much hatred that it’s focusing on me or a number of things. It’s good to have a backup ranged set for PvE and shortbow doesn’t synergize with signet of malice.
Yes PW DPS is not the best, but you need at least 1 tank in your team that wants to tank the boss and it interrupts the boss very often to make everyone else’ life easier if I can just stand there and tank it.
Besides if I’m tanking the boss and keeping its attention that it leaves its back open for you to backstab it constantly.
Which bosses are giving you problems? Constant evades + malice should be more than enough as long as you’re timing your dodges as well. To me it just sounds like you’re just doing something wrong and using PP to make up for that. I also 100% disagree that you need a tank. This isn’t your standard trinity game.
Uhh I don’t dodge, I just stand and spam pistol whip.
That’s your problem right there then. You’re probably not timing your whips properly to get the evades at the right time and then not using dodge when you should to correct that, thus taking more damage than you should.
Yea I don’t dungeon a lot but it’s working pretty well so far. I feel pretty good about my build, playstyle etc. P/P just makes sense right now. So I wouldn’t say it’s a complete failure of a set.
I need a faceroll build for PvE and this is it.
It’s still subpar performance wise is the issue. A well plaid thief has no good use for PP. If you want a faceroll PvE character I HIGHLY suggest you make a guardian instead (that’s why I have one). It’s far better for you and your party Vs. a sub-par thief set up .
All of this is a HUGE stretch to try and say that PP is a valid set btw…
They need to buff it until it’s viable then.
All is vain.
It makes sense when you consider its synergy with signet of malice. If you’re not using this signet then yes P/P is pure garbage.
Why are you taking so much constant damage to where you need that at range? o.O
Even with signet of malice it’s not a good set.
You have to be built a certain way but it’s pretty solid if you’re built for it. As for why I’m taking so much damage with it…I usually don’t.
P/P is my regen set when I take damage in melee I regen HP back quickly back with unload then switch back to S/P.
Why are you taking so much damage while in mele range? PvE wise you should be behind your target the entire time and just dodge the mele range aoe stuffs. The game is pretty well timed to where you can avoid all of the heavy hits just with dodging. With S/P you get a lot of evades as part of one of your attacks. I use DD and have no need of the extra healing… so esp. as S/P you shouldn’t need to back out so much to where you would want to use this sub par PP weapon set.
I’m not behind my target, I like to facetank bosses with pistol whips.
Then you’re evading most of the time… so why are you taking enough damage to where you would need to back out and use PP?
Some bosses do too much damage after a point due to a number of things. Like if it just hits too hard, or I just generated too much hatred that it’s focusing on me or a number of things. It’s good to have a backup ranged set for PvE and shortbow doesn’t synergize with signet of malice.
Yes PW DPS is not the best, but you need at least 1 tank in your team that wants to tank the boss and it interrupts the boss very often to make everyone else’ life easier if I can just stand there and tank it.
Besides if I’m tanking the boss and keeping its attention that it leaves its back open for you to backstab it constantly.
Which bosses are giving you problems? Constant evades + malice should be more than enough as long as you’re timing your dodges as well. To me it just sounds like you’re just doing something wrong and using PP to make up for that. I also 100% disagree that you need a tank. This isn’t your standard trinity game.
Uhh I don’t dodge, I just stand and spam pistol whip.
That’s your problem right there then. You’re probably not timing your whips properly to get the evades at the right time and then not using dodge when you should to correct that, thus taking more damage than you should.
Yea I don’t dungeon a lot but it’s working pretty well so far. I feel pretty good about my build, playstyle etc. P/P just makes sense right now. So I wouldn’t say it’s a complete failure of a set.
I need a faceroll build for PvE and this is it.
It’s still subpar performance wise is the issue. A well plaid thief has no good use for PP. If you want a faceroll PvE character I HIGHLY suggest you make a guardian instead (that’s why I have one). It’s far better for you and your party Vs. a sub-par thief set up .
All of this is a HUGE stretch to try and say that PP is a valid set btw…
They need to buff it until it’s viable then.
That’s what people have been asking for for MONTHS now xD
Tarnished Coast
Salvage 4 Profit + MF Guide – http://tinyurl.com/l8ff6pa
Salvage 4 Profit + MF Guide – http://tinyurl.com/l8ff6pa
p/p thief in dungeon = insta kick just like hammer warriors etc…
Its garbage
p/p is not pure garbage, it has nice synergy with signet of malice. S/P + P/P is my goto setup for dungeons now.
Oh and you should not range the whole time because melee is better than ranged always if you can handle it.
PvE the dps for PP is rather low. The auto attack is condition damage based, while unload is direct damage based. It’s a weapon set that has an identity crisis. If there are multiple targets you’re far better off using a shortbow. If it’s just one you’re far better off using mele. There is hardly ever a good reason to use PP unless you’re just not skilled enough to use mele in PvE.
WvW/PvP… one boon which can be kept up 100% of the time with ease hard counters your PP weaponset (retal).
It’s rubbish.
Shortbow is pretty awesome… but thief is capped at 900 range which can be a problem at times.
as with any weaponset it depends on who is using it. I personaly have a great time in wvw and i am sure the person I got this build from thinks the same about it. If its not working for you then don’t use it. don’t come here and say that it’s not viable. you can see for yourselfs that in the right hands this is a good weaponset and very fun to play
and about retaliation: thats why d/p is in there.
assassin for Valar Morghulis
thief 80/ranger 80. stealthless by default
mexican gunslinger
thief 80/ranger 80. stealthless by default
mexican gunslinger
p/p is not pure garbage, it has nice synergy with signet of malice. S/P + P/P is my goto setup for dungeons now.
Oh and you should not range the whole time because melee is better than ranged always if you can handle it.
PvE the dps for PP is rather low. The auto attack is condition damage based, while unload is direct damage based. It’s a weapon set that has an identity crisis. If there are multiple targets you’re far better off using a shortbow. If it’s just one you’re far better off using mele. There is hardly ever a good reason to use PP unless you’re just not skilled enough to use mele in PvE.
WvW/PvP… one boon which can be kept up 100% of the time with ease hard counters your PP weaponset (retal).
It’s rubbish.
Shortbow is pretty awesome… but thief is capped at 900 range which can be a problem at times.
as with any weaponset it depends on who is using it. I personaly have a great time in wvw and i am sure the person I got this build from thinks the same about it. If its not working for you then don’t use it. don’t come here and say that it’s not viable. you can see for yourselfs that in the right hands this is a good weaponset and very fun to play
and about retaliation: thats why d/p is in there.
If you find it fun that’s fine. That’s a totally different issue than what I was addressing.
I haven’t seen any vids of some one using PP against a decent player with much success. They have always been Vs. people that don’t know how to dodge or play in much of a meaningful manner (WvW has many of this type of player though).
Swapping to another weapon set doesn’t somehow make PP not easy to counter…
If you have some sort of logical reason or examples I would like to see them. Just stating that I shouldn’t say what I said without you giving any counter arguments to my reasons for thinking it’s a bad weapon set is just meaningless.
Tarnished Coast
Salvage 4 Profit + MF Guide – http://tinyurl.com/l8ff6pa
Salvage 4 Profit + MF Guide – http://tinyurl.com/l8ff6pa
(edited by Aberrant.6749)
Thieves are skirmish class, moving in and and of range. You can put a ranged build together for the warrior, elementalist, ranger, thief, but for all of them you’ll still be better getting safely into melee. A thief gets in and out of melee better than most. My comparison would be that a dual pistol thief will just seem rubbish compared to a longbow ranger. The thief shortbow is better than the ranger shortbow but if you didn’t like it on the ranger then you probably won’t like it on the thief either.
p/p is not pure garbage, it has nice synergy with signet of malice. S/P + P/P is my goto setup for dungeons now.
Oh and you should not range the whole time because melee is better than ranged always if you can handle it.
PvE the dps for PP is rather low. The auto attack is condition damage based, while unload is direct damage based. It’s a weapon set that has an identity crisis. If there are multiple targets you’re far better off using a shortbow. If it’s just one you’re far better off using mele. There is hardly ever a good reason to use PP unless you’re just not skilled enough to use mele in PvE.
WvW/PvP… one boon which can be kept up 100% of the time with ease hard counters your PP weaponset (retal).
It’s rubbish.
Shortbow is pretty awesome… but thief is capped at 900 range which can be a problem at times.
as with any weaponset it depends on who is using it. I personaly have a great time in wvw and i am sure the person I got this build from thinks the same about it. If its not working for you then don’t use it. don’t come here and say that it’s not viable. you can see for yourselfs that in the right hands this is a good weaponset and very fun to play
and about retaliation: thats why d/p is in there.
If you find it fun that’s fine. That’s a totally different issue than what I was addressing.
I haven’t seen any vids of some one using PP against a decent player with much success. They have always been Vs. people that don’t know how to dodge or play in much of a meaningful manner (WvW has many of this type of player though).
Swapping to another weapon set doesn’t somehow make PP not easy to counter…
If you have some sort of logical reason or examples I would like to see them. Just stating that I shouldn’t say what I said without you giving any counter arguments to my reasons for thinking it’s a bad weapon set is just meaningless.
you are right that only pp is easily counter-able but you don’t have to stay in pp thats what I mean. i was referring to the build actually. for vids you can look at my first post here. I haven’t played dungeons with it and cant comment on that but this build has great mobility so you’ll be able to at least survive. I used to play a d/d and then a d/p and while those had really good single target damage they lacked the survivability I have with this one (even with stealth). with my d/p i could take more enemies than with my d/d but still not as much as with p/p. yes it has less damage but more mobility and sustain. to single targets it’s harder but not impossible as it has enough survivability to withstand a backstab burst and repay the aggressor with interest.
almost forgot: unload follows a stealthed player if started when out of stealth. nice agaist thiefs
assassin for Valar Morghulis
thief 80/ranger 80. stealthless by default
mexican gunslinger
thief 80/ranger 80. stealthless by default
mexican gunslinger
(edited by kaazdinasty.8120)
As is said here: P/P is broken and, on top of that, is boring. It’s Unload all the way and nothing else.
SB is pretty fun and useful, but I don’t see it as a main weaponset. I run D/P and use SB when things get messy and I have to kite or when I’m with the zerg to help until people get scattered, then I go melee and kill ranged/clothed unaware people
I really wish they would rework PP myself, but atm it’s just too scattered… aa is cond, unload doesn’t do the best damage, it has some ok utility but not worth the ini it costs while in that set… : /
I guess I don’t completely understand the cond damage vs power damage argument when it comes to pistol mainhand auto attacks. At least, it doesn’t totally make sense to me.
From memory, if I run P/D with a heavy cond damage build (carrion, 0/0/30/20/20, 50% duration from food and a giver’s weapon), I get something like 6 bleed ticks at 115 damage + typically 225 or so damage from the main attack. There’s no appreciable crit, so I get about 900 damage per hit. Initiative is going into C/D.
If I run pistol mainhand with the kind of gearing El Taquito Bandito uses and a 0/30/0/20/20 build, I get 4 bleed ticks at about 40 damage apiece, + typically 400ish damage from the main attack if it doesn’t crit and + 1.1k-ish damage if it does; 50% crit gives about 900 damage per hit. Not that it matters much, you’re doing at most 4 or so auto attacks before another unload.
I understand there might be some quibbles here and there about bleed durations, amount of armor, etc., but I just don’t see a massive advantage to cond damage. What am I missing?
- Dr Ebola
I really wish they would rework PP myself, but atm it’s just too scattered… aa is cond, unload doesn’t do the best damage, it has some ok utility but not worth the ini it costs while in that set… : /
I guess I don’t completely understand the cond damage vs power damage argument when it comes to pistol mainhand auto attacks. At least, it doesn’t totally make sense to me.
From memory, if I run P/D with a heavy cond damage build (carrion, 0/0/30/20/20, 50% duration from food and a giver’s weapon), I get something like 6 bleed ticks at 115 damage + typically 225 or so damage from the main attack. There’s no appreciable crit, so I get about 900 damage per hit. Initiative is going into C/D.
If I run pistol mainhand with the kind of gearing El Taquito Bandito uses and a 0/30/0/20/20 build, I get 4 bleed ticks at about 40 damage apiece, + typically 400ish damage from the main attack if it doesn’t crit and + 1.1k-ish damage if it does; 50% crit gives about 900 damage per hit. Not that it matters much, you’re doing at most 4 or so auto attacks before another unload.
I understand there might be some quibbles here and there about bleed durations, amount of armor, etc., but I just don’t see a massive advantage to cond damage. What am I missing?
900 for a ranged auto attack when you’re in full zerk (I presume that’s what you’re compairing full zerk vs full cond) is low damage. Compaire the aa of shortbow vs the aa on pistol when you’re wearing the same gear… the shortbow wins not even considering the bounce. Iirc a sneak attack in full power/crit does about the same damage as a frontstab.
Condition damage does indeed have other benefits Vs. condition damage as well as you mentioned. In addition to that though… condition builds also naturally come along with more survival from the vit/toughness which you give up for more damage in a power set up… but you’re NOT doing more damage in this case, but less.
It’s been a while but I remember doing more than 115 per bleed tick… I remember 120+ and I wasn’t using full carrion. I was using a carrion/apothecary mix for more survival, which would have a little bit lower condition damage Vs. full carrion.
You also get more Ini refunded from c&d as long as you’re using the 2 ini when you go into stealth (that’s build dependent though). Unload will have a higher cost on average.
Tarnished Coast
Salvage 4 Profit + MF Guide – http://tinyurl.com/l8ff6pa
Salvage 4 Profit + MF Guide – http://tinyurl.com/l8ff6pa
(edited by Aberrant.6749)
p/p is not pure garbage, it has nice synergy with signet of malice. S/P + P/P is my goto setup for dungeons now.
Oh and you should not range the whole time because melee is better than ranged always if you can handle it.
PvE the dps for PP is rather low. The auto attack is condition damage based, while unload is direct damage based. It’s a weapon set that has an identity crisis. If there are multiple targets you’re far better off using a shortbow. If it’s just one you’re far better off using mele. There is hardly ever a good reason to use PP unless you’re just not skilled enough to use mele in PvE.
WvW/PvP… one boon which can be kept up 100% of the time with ease hard counters your PP weaponset (retal).
It’s rubbish.
Shortbow is pretty awesome… but thief is capped at 900 range which can be a problem at times.
as with any weaponset it depends on who is using it. I personaly have a great time in wvw and i am sure the person I got this build from thinks the same about it. If its not working for you then don’t use it. don’t come here and say that it’s not viable. you can see for yourselfs that in the right hands this is a good weaponset and very fun to play
and about retaliation: thats why d/p is in there.
If you find it fun that’s fine. That’s a totally different issue than what I was addressing.
I haven’t seen any vids of some one using PP against a decent player with much success. They have always been Vs. people that don’t know how to dodge or play in much of a meaningful manner (WvW has many of this type of player though).
Swapping to another weapon set doesn’t somehow make PP not easy to counter…
If you have some sort of logical reason or examples I would like to see them. Just stating that I shouldn’t say what I said without you giving any counter arguments to my reasons for thinking it’s a bad weapon set is just meaningless.
you are right that only pp is easily counter-able but you don’t have to stay in pp thats what I mean. i was referring to the build actually. for vids you can look at my first post here. I haven’t played dungeons with it and cant comment on that but this build has great mobility so you’ll be able to at least survive. I used to play a d/d and then a d/p and while those had really good single target damage they lacked the survivability I have with this one (even with stealth). with my d/p i could take more enemies than with my d/d but still not as much as with p/p. yes it has less damage but more mobility and sustain. to single targets it’s harder but not impossible as it has enough survivability to withstand a backstab burst and repay the aggressor with interest.
almost forgot: unload follows a stealthed player if started when out of stealth. nice agaist thiefs
But if it’s so easy to counter… why bother with it at all? Get yourself another weapon/set which offers you something more.
As far as mobility… I presume you’re speaking about the range and not the actual ability to move around, which is far greater with a dagger (heartseeker). I have had less issues staying on the target with a dagger Vs. PP because of that. I started out with PP oh so long ago, so my gained experience may well also factor into that.
As far as it channeleing… the channel is part of why it’s so easy to counter. That long attack time gives your opponent a long period in which they can mitigate the unload damage. Once you get better at predicting your fellow stealthers you’ll be able to do things like C&D/Backstab them while they are stealthed.
Tarnished Coast
Salvage 4 Profit + MF Guide – http://tinyurl.com/l8ff6pa
Salvage 4 Profit + MF Guide – http://tinyurl.com/l8ff6pa
I really wish they would rework PP myself, but atm it’s just too scattered… aa is cond, unload doesn’t do the best damage, it has some ok utility but not worth the ini it costs while in that set… : /
I guess I don’t completely understand the cond damage vs power damage argument when it comes to pistol mainhand auto attacks. …
900 for a ranged auto attack when you’re in full zerk (I presume that’s what you’re compairing full zerk vs full cond) is low damage. Compaire the aa of shortbow vs the aa on pistol when you’re wearing the same gear… the shortbow wins not even considering the bounce. Iirc a sneak attack in full power/crit does about the same damage as a frontstab.
Condition damage does indeed have other benefits Vs. condition damage as well as you mentioned. In addition to that though… condition builds also naturally come along with more survival from the vit/toughness which you give up for more damage in a power set up… but you’re NOT doing more damage in this case, but less.
It’s been a while but I remember doing more than 115 per bleed tick… I remember 120+ and I wasn’t using full carrion. I was using a carrion/apothecary mix for more survival, which would have a little bit lower condition damage Vs. full carrion.
You also get more Ini refunded from c&d as long as you’re using the 2 ini when you go into stealth (that’s build dependent though). Unload will have a higher cost on average.
My numbers came from doing a sample build in gw2buildcraft, but it’s always possible I made a mistake. I didn’t use any ascended gear or anything, just a simple build with exotics.
I agree that shortbow is better aa damage than pistol, probably regardless of whether you choose a power or a condi build. But, it’s probably not the go to weapon for single target unless you’re going full on evasion. Also, it’s true that you could argue that there are other playstyle differences due to builds that matter more than the absolute damage… I guess I feel like the builds are intrinsic to the playstyle. For example, 0/0/30/20/20 wouldn’t make sense for P/P.
I think in some respects, the argument about P/D condi vs P/P power might be mainly about those differences. P/D play feels like it’s about stealth and attrition. P/P play is about ranged burst and mobility.
I’ve played both in limited amounts. Although my impression is that P/D is better, I think that personally I do better in WvW and PvP with P/P, but that is probably because it’s newb friendlier… 333333 while staying 900 distance away from your target is not too tough to make sense of. P/D takes more skill to pull off because of the need to hit CnD, and I’m not there yet.
- Dr Ebola
p/p is not pure garbage, it has nice synergy with signet of malice. S/P + P/P is my goto setup for dungeons now.
Oh and you should not range the whole time because melee is better than ranged always if you can handle it.
PvE the dps for PP is rather low. The auto attack is condition damage based, while unload is direct damage based. It’s a weapon set that has an identity crisis. If there are multiple targets you’re far better off using a shortbow. If it’s just one you’re far better off using mele. There is hardly ever a good reason to use PP unless you’re just not skilled enough to use mele in PvE.
WvW/PvP… one boon which can be kept up 100% of the time with ease hard counters your PP weaponset (retal).
It’s rubbish.
Shortbow is pretty awesome… but thief is capped at 900 range which can be a problem at times.
as with any weaponset it depends on who is using it. I personaly have a great time in wvw and i am sure the person I got this build from thinks the same about it. If its not working for you then don’t use it. don’t come here and say that it’s not viable. you can see for yourselfs that in the right hands this is a good weaponset and very fun to play
and about retaliation: thats why d/p is in there.
If you find it fun that’s fine. That’s a totally different issue than what I was addressing.
I haven’t seen any vids of some one using PP against a decent player with much success. They have always been Vs. people that don’t know how to dodge or play in much of a meaningful manner (WvW has many of this type of player though).
Swapping to another weapon set doesn’t somehow make PP not easy to counter…
If you have some sort of logical reason or examples I would like to see them. Just stating that I shouldn’t say what I said without you giving any counter arguments to my reasons for thinking it’s a bad weapon set is just meaningless.
you are right that only pp is easily counter-able but you don’t have to stay in pp thats what I mean. i was referring to the build actually. for vids you can look at my first post here. I haven’t played dungeons with it and cant comment on that but this build has great mobility so you’ll be able to at least survive. I used to play a d/d and then a d/p and while those had really good single target damage they lacked the survivability I have with this one (even with stealth). with my d/p i could take more enemies than with my d/d but still not as much as with p/p. yes it has less damage but more mobility and sustain. to single targets it’s harder but not impossible as it has enough survivability to withstand a backstab burst and repay the aggressor with interest.
almost forgot: unload follows a stealthed player if started when out of stealth. nice agaist thiefs
But if it’s so easy to counter… why bother with it at all? Get yourself another weapon/set which offers you something more.
As far as mobility… I presume you’re speaking about the range and not the actual ability to move around, which is far greater with a dagger (heartseeker). I have had less issues staying on the target with a dagger Vs. PP because of that. I started out with PP oh so long ago, so my gained experience may well also factor into that.
As far as it channeleing… the channel is part of why it’s so easy to counter. That long attack time gives your opponent a long period in which they can mitigate the unload damage. Once you get better at predicting your fellow stealthers you’ll be able to do things like C&D/Backstab them while they are stealthed.
so you are assuming that a build only needs one weaponset? pp is counterable with one buff, sure but long can a foe keep it up if he is not spect for it? besides if retaliation is on why is it a shame to switch weapons? and no, i’m talking about the ability to move around. have you even seen the build? and yeah heartseeker offers mobility but in cost of initiative. besides, you need less mobility with pp because of the range. again look at the build. and yes long channel but again: weapon switch, it may not be an argument for pp but it is for the build. anyways i have yet to see an substantial amount of interrupt builds out there. most chars have some but not enough to counter unload.
just on a sidenote sas was talking about the build I posted here (first respond) witch is not full berserker.
assassin for Valar Morghulis
thief 80/ranger 80. stealthless by default
mexican gunslinger
thief 80/ranger 80. stealthless by default
mexican gunslinger
(edited by kaazdinasty.8120)
Weapon Sets
P/P, regardless of the negatives towards it, is the only weapon set we have that is better at single target ranged attacks. With the recent improvement to Ricochet, it seems that it also became viable handling a small group mob. SB will always be the best AoE ranged weapon in a massive scale situation.
Some people may argue that SB is the best, but whatever, SB is horrible because it is not flexible. With P/P, if I want to AoE, I can turn on Ricochet, if I don’t, I simply turn it off. With SB, AoE or go home…no flexibility.
So people can talk about how bad P/P is, but the fact is, that’s all we have and I have already explain why I personally do not like SB in non-AoE situation.
Playstyle
I have only seen one person who can be very mobile when using an SB, most of the SB users I’ve seen are “turrets” spamming cluster bombs. >.>’ boooring!
So, when it comes to extreme mobility, SB is the best choice because once you master this weapon, you can be very mobile.
P/P’s playstyle relies heavily on Cripple since there is no gap generator skill in the set like the #3 in SB. It also synergize with the use of Caltrops and Signet of Malice, but the best heal skill for P/P is Withdraw. Basically any skill that provides a gap is good for this set. In my P/P build, I always bring both Withdraw and Roll for Initiative.
Personal Wishlist
I like to see either a Rifle or an Arbalest added as a ranged weapon to the Thief’s arsenal.
http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.