My question is specifically for WvW zergs and maybe for high level FotM to some extent.
I’m thinking of creating a thief since few of my friends seems to enjoy playing with thieves a lot (even though there is all kinda hate in forums for thief profession).
I know thieves are great solo roamers… But is it true that they just melt in big zerg vs zerg fights because of random AoEs? My friends seem to die. A lot. Generally speaking on zerg fights they seem to really struggle. If they are not standing back and nuking things with their bow they seem to be dead.
Either I’m missing the mechanics or thieves has such terrible base health, low armor, and no damage mitigations. Is not getting hit only way to survive?
Does anyone have any hints on surviving? Any hints to enhance survivability without cripple damage so much? What kind of equipments mostly used by pro-thieves?
Imo thieves aren’t really that great as a front line fighter. But I’m sure there are players here who traited them to survive for a while, but in general it’s a tough place for thieves to be at.
I only have 2 real tactics for thieves in zergs. Either ranged in the back (shortbow mostly) or otherwise picking off ppl who got lost from the pack or hitting ppl who are hurt (and pulling back) and immediately pull back before you take too much agro.
I’m sure there are some other ways to play too, but this is how I play mostly, should I run in a zerg.
Anything that builds glass cannon melts on the front lines of zerg fights. The trick for glass cannon melee is skirt the edges killing people or protect your backline until the initial bombs of death have been dropped. After the initial AOE’s are burnt you will survive alot better. You always want to be rolling around the outsides of the fight killing though, you don’t have to be way far out but being in the center of the zergball is only a place for heavies and bunkers unless you outmatch the opponent.
Also, melee in large zerg fights should NOT build glass cannon if they do not have the skills to survive. You build hybrid or tanky and slowly lower your defensive stats/ability as your skill improves. You find that over time you can train yourself to be way more survivable by learning how to play your build right for each situation.
Hyrbid and bunker thieves should have no issues surviving unless they are plain bad though.
Rashanala – 80 Elementalist
Ehmry Bay – Legion of the Iron Hawk [Hawk]
not that bad with medium survivability the key is either mobility or stealth. to avoid focus fire.
I like to
go after damaged targets (either with shortbow, or teleports)
go after guys in the back of the enemy zerg, or on its flanks (out of position).
use shortbow and spam cluster/poison
use shortbow and spam blast finishers on friendly fields to give allies buffs
spam cluster/poison into a battle between the two enemy zergs, then cloak, back away and stand there while I pick up lootbags.
the hard parts are when the group has to run through aoe siege…make sure to save up dodges for this as you can die easily here.
If youa re defending you can back up doing the same.
My P/D Condi thief I use in WvW is very Zerg friendly since it has 22000 HPs.
If you are running through Siege you take a lot of damage, sure but you can get through it fast with teleports and dodges.
Ranged Condi is great for zerg pickoffs too on the outskirts although not as good at burst but you can avoid ther aoes since you have 900 range on your pistol.
Thieves are just good at WvW because of the godliness of shortbow.
In zergs on my thief, I generally don’t melee, and I focus on keeping people off of targets by AEing the crap out of them. Smoke screen is also very useful – more so on defense – for protecting your ranged line while defending.
If you want to kill specific targets, you can try your hand with Scorpion Wire, too, but be warned if someone is between you and your target it will hit them instead.
What do you guys mean when you say “tag people with SB” ?
TAG = hit? does it matter for how much dmg? For example I hit a warr for 200-300, he has 20k hp. My allies kill him. Did I TAG him? Will I get reward/bag/xp?
tag means hitting a target so that when they go down you get credit (and loot) for the kill. It does have to be over a certain amount of dmg…but I dont know exactly how much.
also if you are in a party, it counts the total party dmg to see if people get loot, then anyone in the party who hit the target once gets loot. so it pays to party up.
best way to zerg tag with SB is poison field + cluster bomb.
Not sure everyone understands but Poison field + Cluster bomb does Condition damage 2 ways (bleed if you detonate (then no blast finish) /poison) and it also does area weakness.
You can hit 4, 2, 4, 2 until you are out of ini.
The just auoattack.
Anyone walking in the poison field gets tagged esp if you bomb them and more importantly
My question is specifically for WvW zergs and maybe for high level FotM to some extent.
I’m thinking of creating a thief since few of my friends seems to enjoy playing with thieves a lot (even though there is all kinda hate in forums for thief profession).
I know thieves are great solo roamers… But is it true that they just melt in big zerg vs zerg fights because of random AoEs? My friends seem to die. A lot. Generally speaking on zerg fights they seem to really struggle. If they are not standing back and nuking things with their bow they seem to be dead.
Either I’m missing the mechanics or thieves has such terrible base health, low armor, and no damage mitigations. Is not getting hit only way to survive?
Does anyone have any hints on surviving? Any hints to enhance survivability without cripple damage so much? What kind of equipments mostly used by pro-thieves?
A thieves job in zerg fights is to take out key players. So Elementalists, mesmers, other thieves, even players that are maning the arrow carts and such. Also fighting the perimiters is a thief specialty. For no reason (besides Dagger Storm) should a thief be in the middle of a zerg fight, that is why we have guardians and warriors. Think of a thief like your military snipers. Get in and right back out nothing else to it. Also the thief can use dagger storm to cripple enemies to benefit his own zerg in taking down the enemy. I only do wvw and spvp so I can speak on fotm behalf. But yea Thief=Sniper.
~Invis Dreamz
• So which item prefixes are mostly used by thieves?
• What’s the best way to get/balance enough survivability without cripple damage so much?
• Which one is prefered most toughness or vitality? I know glass cannons aren’t suited for WvW (except maybe solo/small party roaming).
• So which item prefixes are mostly used by thieves?
• What’s the best way to get/balance enough survivability without cripple damage so much?
• Which one is prefered most toughness or vitality? I know glass cannons aren’t suited for WvW (except maybe solo/small party roaming).
Prefixes can vary depending on your build. From my experience, one of the easiest ways to make a build is to choose all the traits you would like to use. Then balance out your character with the equipment so that it works. For example, if you invest traits like 0/30/30/10/0, you would want to use Valkyrie. It increases damage and vitality so it doesn’t leave you with only damage or survivability.
As for toughness or vitality, the best way to find out which is better is looking at what your character needs. Finding out your effective hp is the best way to know.
If I ever find myself in the middle of a Zerg fight I’ll move behind enemy lines and killing the casters / rangers in the back. Or eliminating other thieves using SB. That’s at least what I find most useful and fun to do.
Mix in some Cavalarier, Knight and Valkyrie. If you do it right, you won’t affect your damage in a notable fashion yet still end up with the same damage reduction as a ‘bunker’ thief. Min/maxing is the key.
Mix in some Cavalarier, Knight and Valkyrie. If you do it right, you won’t affect your damage in a notable fashion yet still end up with the same damage reduction as a ‘bunker’ thief. Min/maxing is the key.
And what’s the right ratio to mix them exactly? I’d really appreciate if you can give me some insight.
The correct ratio is extremely personal. How much defense do you need to keep fighting to the best of your ability? Mine is around the same damage reduction a ‘Soldier’-gear thief would have, as I find it comfortable, and less means that I will get killed when facing a good enemy (everyone can roll poor players).
Based on my limited experience as a WvW thief (too much sPvP, just reached 80 on my thief a couple of days ago), your survivability in zerg v zerg depends a lot on the amount of arrow carts used. Assuming you aren’t taking too much AoE you can safely abuse stealth and go right through the enemy zerg and start killing squishies from behind. Just put 30 in Shadow Arts for regen and you’ll survive so long as you’re careful and only come out of stealth when it’s safe to do so.
On the other hand, arrow carts make your life miserable. If you find yourself losing more health than you’re regenerating and constant cripples make it difficult to land a Cloak and Dagger, just get out of there and use short bow, or better yet sneak to the arrow carts and take them down instead.
Basically, my advice is to leave your zerg and your common sense behind to rush right into the enemy zerg/keep/whatever it is you’re fighting. It’s safer, and probably more useful as well. Let’s just say I took down quite a few arrow carts during a SM siege yesterday..
• So which item prefixes are mostly used by thieves?
• What’s the best way to get/balance enough survivability without cripple damage so much?
• Which one is prefered most toughness or vitality? I know glass cannons aren’t suited for WvW (except maybe solo/small party roaming).
-For armor go Valkyrie. Trinkets and weapons go Berserker.
-Make use of stealth by going 30 in shadow arts(stealth is your friend. And utilize our crit damage since the hidden killer trait can guarantee a crit.
-Toughness is typically better than vitality but in order to get toughness you would have to sacrifice ALOT of damage so go vitality.
